Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

[zMuffinMan]

/confirm

[zMuffinMan]

I am amazing at giving off town tells. Unintentionally or intentionally.

mastin gets to be town for recognising this.

And phoebus is scum

VOTE: Phoebus

[zMuffinMan]

Actually, mastin is town for #7 and that big reads list which is overly elaborate. But yeah.

[zMuffinMan]

So then it's not a random vote.

If it makes him look better, then why do you think he looks bad because of it?

[zMuffinMan]

@hiplop,

huh? Answer the question.

If you think it makes him look bad (because there's "no town motivation" and you obviously think he's somewhat suspicious because of it), how could it possibly make him look good?

@GI,

{Phoebus, hiplop} <- 1 scum, minimum.

[zMuffinMan]

@hiplop,

Right. So... How would this possibly make him look good? Stop tiptoeing around the issue.

You said he looks bad because he's trying to look good. This is a self-contradiction which I'm asking you to explain. How could he possibly be trying to look good if it so obviously makes him look bad?

--

@edmund,

I think tomie is suggesting that our reactions to mastin looks like scum-on-town reactions, which is kind of stupid. Looks like pointless fence-sitting and possibly setting up lynches further down the line.

Derp, mastin is scummy but if he's town bowser and muffin need to be

looked at

. Glorious fence-sitting goodness.

But like, if you agreed with tomie about bowser.... why are you asking tomie about bowser?

[zMuffinMan]

You didn't call me scummy, tomie, you said I need to be looked at if mastin is town.

I've already given my thoughts on mastin. You should know because you're calling it scummy.

[zMuffinMan]

My questioning uprising?

And no, it doesn't say enough. It's

very

open to interpretation what you meant by me needing to be looked at if mastin is town. You think mastin is scum, right? Considering you've already pointed at where your vote is and acknowledged you're voting for him over other candidates, I think this is a fair assumption. But, apparently, I only need to be "looked at" if mastin is town.

That's not calling me scummy. That's setting up a false dichotomy.

[zMuffinMan]

Do you really think I'd suggest to look at a player I see as town if another specific player flips town this early?

No, but it doesn't indicate you think I'm scum (or scummy). It just indicates you don't have a town read on me. It's a convenient way for you to fence sit on the issue without having to commit to a read.

This is what tomie-town should have said: I think muffin's post was scummy, but it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be scum with mastin.

This is what you said:

If

mastin is town, muffin needs to be

looked at

, which doesn't entirely indicate that you think anything I said is scummy (yeah, it somewhat hints at it, but you don't firmly take a stance), and doesn't indicate anything other than a dichotomy that I know is blatantly false.

[zMuffinMan]

Aren't you even a little bit curious why I think you questioning Hiplop is scummy?

I don't particularly care. Anything you say about it is wrong.

what could there have been why I would see you as scum if Mastin is town, but not if Mastin is scum, besides you appearing scummy to me?

What did I say that is

only scummy if mastin is town

?

If I "appeared" scummy, I'd appear scummy independent of mastin, yes?

[zMuffinMan]

If there is one scum on the wagon and 3-4 off the wagon then it does'nt matter where you vote.

Yes it does. Less spread if people are voting within a smaller sample size.

PS: Phoebus is still scum, can we lynch him?

[zMuffinMan]

See the contradiction you're making here?

Nope.

hiplop says mastin is trying to look good. And then he said it looks bad. And I asked him how he could possibly think it was designed to make him look good if he looks bad because of it.

That has nothing to do with me or why I said I think mastin is town, which is mostly gut based on #7 and subsequent posts that fit that gut read. The elaborate reads don't make him look town because he's "trying to look town" as hiplop suggests... I don't think he was trying to look town there at all.

'OMG, the oh, so, town-looking wonderful Mastin already realised I'm town. He's that great and I'm amazing at giving town-tells.' This reminds me of Tyra Banks and some wanna-be model who thinks she's the best.

For the record, if you call me town, you too can earn a free pass into my town reads. It's that simple. Do it.

Now answer the question what other reason I could have to mention you other than appearing scummy when I mentioned that you should be looked at if Mastin is town.

I've already answered this. It makes sense if you have anything other than a town read on me (which could be null or could be scummy - you didn't specify at the time, thus sat on the fence).

But here's the thing. You think the only way I could possibly be scum is if mastin is town, and you think mastin is scum now, right? So durrrrrrrrr you should have a provisional town read on me if you have as scum read on mastin.

[zMuffinMan]

What...? Are you implying we should be basing the first few lynches based on mastin's bandwagon or something?

No. But you were wrong when you said it makes no difference.

unless I've misread, haven't they also been trying to draw connections between themselves and mastin as well (at least on muffinman's part)?

Yeah, tomie is claiming that I'm scum if mastin is town but I can't be scum with mastin. Or something like that. It's a load of crap, but whatever.

I'm actually surprised tomie's still on mastin. From the sounds of it, there's more reason to believe I'm scum than mastin.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't mind OMGUSing, if it comes to it. But that would require moving my vote from scum to tomie, and I'm not as confident about tomie as you seem to be.

[zMuffinMan]

If someone's plan was to make themselves appear town, then their thought process would be "I want to appear town, so how best do I go about it?" If what they come up with actually makes people believe they're not town, but scum trying to appear town, it doesn't suddenly change how it was designed.

I know what you're saying, but it's irrelevant.

I'm asking hiplop to tell me exactly why he thinks mastin was 'trying to look good' because I don't think that's what mastin was doing.

The whole "how could he look good if it makes him look bad?" part is about hiplop saying that if you ISO mastin later on, he will look good because of it... Which is kind of durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr when he thinks it makes him look bad.

btw is IIoA all you have to add? No other comments on the game?

[zMuffinMan]

Nope, you didn't. And you're not going to brush me off by claiming this is 'distracting town'.

Considering there are three people actually voting for you, and I'm not one of them, how about you actually do something?

[zMuffinMan]

in before GI says "look at my signature"

--

@zMuffin: Seriously?

Yep.

Do it.


@Maxous,

Do you have any thoughts on the game or just questions for people? Are you doing anything with the answers?

[zMuffinMan]

You even gave a possible reason and now you're saying you can't figure out why it would be town behaviour?

More to the point, how is it scum behaviour? Have you seen scum do that before?

[zMuffinMan]

So, it could be town, it seems more scum. Have any of his other posts affirmed or dampened your suspicion in any way? Or are you still just voting him because he could be scum based on what he did at the very beginning of the game?

[zMuffinMan]

uh, pretty sure toon fighter was talking about tomie in (1), so you'd have to prove that tomie hasn't been asking good questions, GI.

[zMuffinMan]

OK, just to piss off Hiraki, my gut says Phoebus is scum.

--

You liked those lists. It was one of the reasons you saw him as town. This was what Mastin-scum was trying to accomplish. But Hiplop doesn't share that same opinion. It's not a contradiction and you should know it.

uh... I actually never read his list of reads, I just looked for my name and it was town, so wooooooo. My read on him has nothing to do with 'liking' his list.

The list was based on almost nothing. Nobody is going to look back on the game at a later stage and say, "wow, mastin sure is a good scum hunter!" And that is what hiplop seems to think is going to happen. And that is why hiplop's vote is total crap.

Just because I think Mastin is scummier, doesn't give you a free pass for your actions. If Mastin flips scum, you're likely town, but you'll only earn that status if Mastin flips

town

scum.

Two things:

You think mastin is scum, you should have a

provisional

town read on me, right? Even if you think my actions are "scummy".

Your points about this dichotomy are crap and need to die right now. I'm town regardless of mastin's flip, and you're either scum or playing like crap if you're actually suggesting there's some inverse relationship with our alignments.

You have no idea why I'm voting Mastin and yet you say this? Nice job~

Why are you voting mastin?

--

@empking,

Wait, why did you leave pappums out of that list of 'wasted' votes? He's the only one voting edmund now. Unless I missed another edmund vote.

I'll move my vote when I see a better place to put it.

[zMuffinMan]

@edmund,

Do you think someone acting like they're dead serious about something during RVS is a sign they're scum? Think 305, and tell me how this is any different.

[zMuffinMan]

How do I get back up to #2?

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote

VOTE: Bowser

[zMuffinMan]

'coz he's scum.

durr

[zMuffinMan]

Do you want the long version or the short version?

The short version: Read his ISO.

The long version: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRReeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddddd hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssss IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[zMuffinMan]

no. I want to know why YOU think hes scum, i know what im thinking, i need to know what you are

Right now I'm thinking about how itchy the side of my leg is and now I'm scratching it and thinking about why I'm bothering to explain this to you.

Bowser's ISO is void of content. mastin making lists bugs him, followed by a vote on tomie, followed by repeated mentions of edmund being scum and... yeah, that's it.

Did you want me to write an odyssey or something?

--

Bowser's one of four names on that super-mega-town-read list.

They're all town. Trust me on this.

As much as I'd like to believe you on this, I'm not a fan of letting people slip through days without posting anything.

--

Hiraki/Mastin/Toon are all scum at this point for me

Add Muffin to scum trio too

Out of interest, is this like a single scum team you're suggesting here? As in we're all scum together?

If so, elaborate.

If not, elaborate anyway.

I am amazing at giving off town tells. Unintentionally or intentionally.

mastin gets to be town for recognising this.

And phoebus is scum

VOTE: Phoebus

(1)

Not a good post,

(2)

hes strawmanning to extreme levels,

(3)

playing dumb ( i know hes at least kind of competent),

(4)

refusal to explain,

(5)

being snarky

(6)

etc

1) You're complaining about my first post after confirmation? Why all of a sudden and what did you think was bad about it?
2) I'm going to assume this is in reference to my attacks on you... How was I strawmanning?
3) What?
4) No.
5) And?
6) "etc" isn't good enough, do you have other reasons or not?

--

THEN HOW ABOUT EDMUND?!?

Pretty sure he's town, actually.

[zMuffinMan]

People actually believe mastin's claim?

[zMuffinMan]

Anyone who took that claim seriously probably needs to lighten up.

Wow.

[zMuffinMan]

Hey muffins, you town this game?

Yup.

[zMuffinMan]

'kay, why is Mastin's claim a joke?

Because it is. It's a fake-claim, that much is obvious. So let's look at

why

he fake-claimed. hiplop's a town read. People are voting hiplop. He wants people to stop voting hiplop. He made up the 'claim', partially as a joke, to get people to stop voting for hiplop. I could see someone like mastin envisioning this as a good idea. But it's backfired. Because people are taking it seriously and saying he's playing in an anti-town manner. And he may very well be playing in an anti-town manner, but I'm pretty sure he's town.

He might be a good candidate for a vig, but for lynching? Nope.

You are a threat - to the motherfucking town, if you're playing like this.

You could just ignore him.

--

re: Hiplop,

I'm not at all convinced he's scum. I'd much prefer someone like toon fighter or phoebus('s replacement) lynched over hiplop/mastin/whatever.

Every post toon fighter makes seems to scream "I'M SCUM" and his position on the hiplop wagon is like "YEAH, I'M TRYING TO MAKE IT REALLY OBVIOUS, LOL, HOW CAN THESE IDIOTS NOT SEE IT?"

Unvote

VOTE: Toon Fighter

[zMuffinMan]

Well, duh. That would be part of the reason why I was voting for Bowser up until a few posts ago.

[zMuffinMan]

Empking's in this game?

[zMuffinMan]

Nah, I think hiplop just claimed VI

[zMuffinMan]

I'm pretty sure neruz is the mod, so I'd say there's a good chance he's not town or scum.

I'm going to assume you were talking about mastin, though.

In which case, he's probably town and has nothing to do with why people want to lynch you. Well, maybe a little to do with it. But it's mostly you.

It would help if you stopped acting like a tard and started responding to people.

[zMuffinMan]

No, hiplop. Try again.

[zMuffinMan]

But none of your points even make any sense.

You're so lost it's not funny.

[zMuffinMan]

hiplop wagon needs to die. As does mastin wagon. Bowser wagon is cool. Anyone is welcome to join me in voting for toon fighter as well. tomie is meh. and my wagon shouldn't even exist.

edmund is town. empking is meh.

There's probably a fuckton of scum in the lurkers.

[zMuffinMan]

Stop posting so frequently, guys, I'm having trouble catching up.

Muffinman - speak your grievance with Toon Fighter!

Being generally useless.

His early posts are meh. Wonders why a bandwagon has built on mastin, can't seem to see a reason for it, but.... he can't see anywhere better to put his vote and he makes no attempts to hunt scum.

Later sheeps the hiplop wagon, and given the timing and his position on the wagon, the reasoning behind his suspicions of hiplop (i.e. pretty much everything that had already been said in the thread by others) and the fact that I now have a vague VI-town read on hiplop, I'm thinking that's TF-scum taking the opportunity to jump on on hiplop-town's wagon.

Since then he's just been fencesitting on a few people (notably mastin, who he keeps saying could be scum but is prob town but needs to die, etc etc). It really just looks like he's sheeping popular opinion.

Do you think he's town, maxous?

[zMuffinMan]

zMuff, which of the lurkers do you think is most likely to be scum?

Phoebus('s replacement), Bowser, and... well, pretty much any of the lurkers who haven't really said anything could be scum. The main issue I have is I'm null or leaning town on just about every major wagon that's been formed in this game, and while I'm probably wrong somewhere, something feels a bit off. I don't like the hiplop wagon, I don't like the mastin wagon, I'm not even that big a fan of the tomie wagon. I also have town reads on quite a few of the active players in this game. I either am just plain sucking with my reads this game, or scum is lurking hard.

Unvote

VOTE: Bowser

[zMuffinMan]

Hmm. Hiplop wagon is big and hiplop is scum. Newbie scum.

Tf wagon is small but he is good scum.

Who the F do I vote?

...

Looking at the votecount, it looks like you've already decided.

Lurker scum said they'd catch up like four days ago... IGMEOY Tomie.

So from this, and the rest of your #454, can I gather that your suspect list looks like this:

#1 Hiplop
#2 Bowser
#3 Tomie

?

Hiplop. Bowser. Toon.

How many mislynches must I shoot down before the town gets it right?!?

7.

I think ICE is just trolling.

At the moment, he's vig bait.

lol.

GI vig bait over the 15 or so players lurking?

That number may or may not be slightly exaggerated.

[zMuffinMan]

That's ok, Tomie. Hope it all works out.

So like... yeah... when are you going to be awake enough to read the thread?

Considering that GI is looking more and more like a 3rd Party Role that should not exist?

No.

Pretty sure GI is town.

Not even sure why you think he's 'trolling'.

Mastin showed a point where GreyICE said he Policy Lynches any who use Meta.

Uh, no.

What GI said is that he will lynch anyone who uses meta as their entire argument. iirc, it stemmed from some argument about not playing the same as in another game or something.

Came across as a half-joke-half-serious sort of thing. Null tell on alignment, at best.

[zMuffinMan]

What was mastin's point?

Looked for it in mastin's ISO, couldn't see it.

[zMuffinMan]

It's because ICE didn't address Mastin's issue against him.

Again, what was mastin's "issue" with GI?

Went through his ISO, the only references to the GI meta crap I see are mastin asking other people about the comment GI made...

Is there something you want GI to answer, or...?

I got a possible solution, tracker - target GreyICE tonight while he stabs things

You can't honestly think this is a good 'solution'...

So this is who I'm voting for.

Why does everyone think he's town again? Run it by me reaaaaaal slow

Yeah, well, the reason I'm on the Bowser wagon right now is because, for some weird reason, there was no support for toon fighter wagon. I could get back on the toon fighter wagon, but Bowser's continued promises of catching up and reading and whatnot followed by posts like #498... ... ...

Speaking of,

Hiraki and Empking are nice choices for scum. See how they interact with each other.

Are you saying they're scum together? Or are you saying one is scum and the other isn't?

Their interaction isn't scum-scum interaction. But if you think otherwise, do elaborate.

And, while you're at it, how about a nice long chat on your other thoughts on the game.

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, so like, 5 days to the deadline. 3 replacements needed, 10 more people lurking. Fun times.

[zMuffinMan]

Well.

Here's how I see it.

hiplop is town, you're town, tomie I'm not too sure but I'm not convinced she's scum. Bowser has made several promises to provide content and still nothing, toon fighter is pretty much active lurking while writing scummy crap. I don't think GI's attitude is an indication he's scum, I think pappums is town. edmund is also town.

So like, apart from one or two reads here and there, I'm virtually opposite to you in all my reads.

[zMuffinMan]

So. You think Bowser and Toon are scum.
That's it?

We have five.

Bowser and Toon are easy mislynch targets

I was just going off what I remember of your town and scum reads and telling you which ones I agreed/disagreed with. Apart from like hiplop, I'm getting pretty much opposite reads.

The only one I could

maybe

agree with in that scum list is Empking, and that's only because I'm mostly null on him. I'm probably wrong about one other, too.

Look, let's say we run up GI for lynching today. The prospect sounds interesting purely because it's bound to produce a lot of rage. But what are you going to do if he flips town? Still pursue the rest of your scum list or reevaluate things a bit?

[zMuffinMan]

You only think Bowser is scum hunting because you think Edmund is scum.

If you think about it from the perspective that Edmund is actually town, Bowser-scum makes a whole lot more sense.

And this flipflopping with his read on hiplop while ignoring virtually everything else in the game isn't making me think he's town.

I actually want him to start posting content so I can get a proper read on him. He's done crap all so far, and that makes me a sad panda.

[zMuffinMan]

@mastin,

Well, I could point out quite a few things scummy about that post. The fact he's deflecting my argument by saying I don't know how he plays normally, the fact he's refusing to read, the fact that he's still not providing any real content...

@Bowser,

If you don't like writing walls or whatever, just give me your top5 scum reads and a eensy teensy little bit of explanation as to why you have those reads. You know... Just pretend you're playing this game and trying to help town win.

[zMuffinMan]

OK, mastin. Why do you think toon fighter is town?

Follow that up with explanations for why GI, edmund and pappums are scum. Because I'm not convinced on any of those three, and Tomie was meh.

[zMuffinMan]

modkill em all, we hang with the boyz

I could get behind a modkill on every flaker. Would make the game interesting again.

unvote

VOTE: toon fighter

[zMuffinMan]

what's the difference between pappums town rage and pappums scum rage and why was that scum rage?

[zMuffinMan]

So Phoebus was scum. That would make lew scum. I want to see his catch-up post.

toonfighter is still the best wagon, btw.

I don't consider rats a threat. And considering how fkn hard it is to get a bandwagon going on toon fighter, and how easy it was to get a bandwagon going on pappums, I'm happy with where my vote is.

[zMuffinMan]

you want him lynched because he doesn't think he'll die N1?

[zMuffinMan]

Oh sweet, deadline extension. I have been really lazy with mafia this week. Catching up when I have time tomorrow.

[zMuffinMan]

So you basically want to lynch people to confirm whether or not your pet theory is in some way functional rather than lynching scummy people.

Pretty much why I'm ignoring mastin's insistence that toonfighter is town. I could agree with Bowser being town. I agree with hiplop being town. I disagree with TF being town and pappums being scum.

It's actually interesting to see how many people are just blatantly ignoring toon fighter right now. He claims scum in every post. I'd even argue he's scum just purely based on how hard it is to lynch him.

[zMuffinMan]

Hey. Neruz PMed me and said if we lynch Toon Fighter today, he'll modkill hiplop. No jokes. All the hiplop voters should jump on Toon Fighter. It's win/win.

[zMuffinMan]

I have a slight townread on Toon Fighter. I nailed him as scum in Matrix Mafia with no problem, and he's not playing the same way here.

explain

[zMuffinMan]

toon 4
pappums 1
hiplop 0
bowser 0

[zMuffinMan]

*snip*
life story
*snip*

So, he sees me as a liability to the town and therefore a threat.

I have a much simpler explanation. It was a RVS vote; it's a null tell on alignment.

Please use 4 to 1 to keep the system working.

I'm not voting someone I think is town.

[zMuffinMan]

See the quotation marks... He was trying to be smart, 'quoting' chkflip; i.e. implying that it's chkflip saying that. It means nothing, other than vezok thinking it's a funny thing to do.

vezok probably isn't going to be lynched today so you should move your vote to toonfighter.

[zMuffinMan]

what do you think of toonfighter?

[zMuffinMan]

So. Yeah.

What are we looking at?

hiplop ( 10 ) - derp, derp, derp, derp, derp, derp, derp, derp, derp, derp, derp
Toon Fighter ( 5 ) - amazing player, amazing player, amazing player, amazing player, amazing player

Hmm. I'm noticing a pattern here.

[zMuffinMan]

GI, intense dislike of mastin and all who praise mastin aside, do you really think hiplop is scum here?

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, hey, cool. We're looking at 8 votes on hiplop and 7 votes on toon right now.

The toon lynch can happen.

I HAVE FAITH. 4 MORE. WE CAN DO IT.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't get it. Where is the scum kill? That looks like vig+sk.

[zMuffinMan]

edmund is own, though.

I could get behind a wagon on any of the following:

malpascp
pappums
sorg
hiraki
somerandomguy

SRG ultra-lurking while playing in another game with me that finished recently doesn't make me feel too good about him.

malpascp being utterly useless and coasting by with his "durr why isn't hiplop lynched yet?" crap makes me want him dead.

sorgster is just... ugh

I need to revisit pappums hiplop tunnel and capslock rage some time in the next day or so, when I can be bothered. Also the apathetic "

I wish we could lynch both toonfighter and hiplop today

" crap.

And Hiraki is just scum because. Nothing more than this atm.

Which one of these has the most support or a lynch?

VOTE: Pappums

Start here. Prob only two scum in that list. I've probably missed another somewhere.

Might do some reading of toonfighter (oh god, that one is going to be painful) and lewarcher when I have time.

[zMuffinMan]

edmund is town, even. I'm amazing at spelling.

[zMuffinMan]

Also "support

for

a lynch"

PS:

@Mod: Is SRG getting replaced?

[zMuffinMan]

@Maxous,

What happened to your suspicion of me, anyway?

[zMuffinMan]

@GI

I don't actually think he's scum, though. I just think he's being stupid.

pedit: pretty much what empking just said.

[zMuffinMan]

heh just went back over first few pages.

#72

3 dead. 2 scum. I'd say there's at most one scum left in {sorg, maxous, malp}. I don't think it's maxous if it's one of them. It's likely they're all town, actually.

[zMuffinMan]

It made you cocky enough to chainsaw for Toon Fighter, and chainsaw HARD. Virtually everyone voting for him you slammed into, either for having bad reasons or for being scum.

To be fair, it's not like Maxous tried to hide it. The fact he was so blatant about it, over and over, makes me think Maxous is town. He tried

way

too hard to prevent the toon fighter lynch and even moved off the only other viable lynch at the time (hiplop) and onto Empking (??????), still saying he didn't like the toon fighter wagon (and would be happy lynching 5/6 on the wagon). That's not scum play. That's just wrong-town play.

[zMuffinMan]

No, GI. It's nothing to do with "too scummy to be scum"

He unvoted hiplop, the only viable lynch other than toonfighter, to pursure a lynch on Empking.

How does this make sense if maxous is scum?

Why did he abandon the only wagon that was going to result in a lynch other than toonfighter... while choosing not to bus the hell out of toonfighter?

The only half-viable argument I've seen for Maxous being scum is that he was 'third party hunting' but considering he made no effort to really push a lynch on you, I don't see your point here. Thinking that you're playing like third party means nothing. Directing a tracker who may or may not have listened to him means nothing.

[zMuffinMan]

Prod dodging. Something tomorrow.

[zMuffinMan]

GI. How many scum do you think are left? I'd guess 3 (prob 3 mafia or 2 mafia + 1 SK - 16:5 or 16:4:1 probably).

How confident are you that maxous is one of those scum? Suppose he isn't scum, who's scum and why?

Pappums, malp, Hiraki, nanook(formerly SRG) <- any of those would be a good bet for hitting scum, I think. Not maxous. Not edmund.

[zMuffinMan]

Wait.

You get informed when your vote is stolen? And no one had their vote stolen D1, right?

[zMuffinMan]

Someone wanna make a bet with me?

Vote stealer is one of the D1 lurkers.

[zMuffinMan]

Wait, nm, happened at night.

[zMuffinMan]

Maybe.

I haven't actually been paying attention to this game.

Can you pretend you're a nice guy and answer the questions on the second line?

[zMuffinMan]

OMG I AGREE WITH HIRAKI.

We can be I-think-hiraki-is-scum brothers.

Hi5

First: hiraki?

Yes.

Hiraki never had a legitimate reason to be on the hiplop wagon. I'm pretty sure the only reason he was on hiplop is because it was the counterwagon to toon's that had the most chance of going through. He voted hiplop because hiplop suggested that he (hiplop) would probably live through the night, and that his play became better as the game progressed. I'm not even misconstruing anything here. I also think it's rather ironic that hiplop did end up dying N1.

Wanna know what his only mention of TF was? That TF was outrageously scummy, but that it was odd...

---

@zdenek,

Hey,

Your argument makes no sense (maxous was on the hiplop wagon right up until hiplop's claim and the derphammer incident).

Can you give some reads on people who aren't town please?

[zMuffinMan]

That post made a lot more sense in my head when I wrote it.

[zMuffinMan]

this

and THIS VOTECOUNT

look at the hiplop wagon. LOOK AT IT.

[zMuffinMan]

Actually, pappums isn't scum. No way toonfighter jumped on that wagon to bus him. That was a counterwagon.

It's Hiraki or malp. hez and empking are town.

unvote

VOTE: Hiraki('s replacement?)

Or is malp easier to get a wagon on? I can do either.

[zMuffinMan]

read page 25. All of it.

[zMuffinMan]

Edmund - vote someone in your next post or have you lost voting power for the entire game?

GI - full claim

My guess is scum have a rolecop and copped Empking N1 - cannot see the two lurkers being a scum kill and cannot see scum going after Empking without a rolecop result. Also vig+sk somewhat explains the N1 kills - I seriously doubt scum killed hiplop - their kill was probably blocked in some way N1.

[zMuffinMan]

so many lines in OP, hard to tell who's still alive.

Names are coloured appropriate to alignment on death.

malpascp or chkflip or CSL or zdenek or pappums

I'd be fine with lynching any of these players.

Need to do some reading.

[zMuffinMan]

Not DavidX. Bad chkflip, stop being scum.

[zMuffinMan]

I didn't actually read any of the things you said about DavidX. He's town for #919, #921. Don't see that as bussing. It's

possible

but not worth going after today.

[zMuffinMan]

ftr, hiplop was at like 9? or 10 votes at the time and TF was at like 5 or 6.

[zMuffinMan]

Just making note of these votecounts so I can come back and look at them later.

hiplop

( 10 ) - paupam's rat, malpascp,

Hirarky

,

lewarcher82

,

Maxous

, vezokpiraka,

Toon Fighter

, Bowser, sorgster, chkflip

Toon Fighter

( 6 ) - zMuffinMan, GreyICE, chkflip,

Empking

, edmund.angles, warriormode
paupam's rat ( 3 ) -

hiplop

, mastin2, HezLucky
Bowser ( 1 ) - MintKitten
Tomie Uzumaki ( 1 ) - David Xanatos
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -

somerandomguy

hiplop

( 9 ) - paupam's rat, malpascp,

Hirarky

,

lewarcher82

, vezokpiraka,

Toon Fighter

, Bowser, GreyICE, David Xanatos

Toon Fighter

( 6 ) - zMuffinMan, chkflip,

Empking

, edmund.angles, warriormode,

hiplop

paupam's rat ( 3 ) - , mastin2, HezLucky
Bowser ( 1 ) - MintKitten
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -

somerandomguy

sorgster ( 1 ) - chkflip

Empking

( 1 ) - Maxous
chkflip ( 1 ) - sorgster

Toon Fighter

( 9 ) - zMuffinMan, chkflip,

Empking

, edmund.angles, warriormode,

hiplop

, David Xanatos, HezLucky, sorgster

hiplop

( 8 ) - paupam's rat, malpascp,

Hirarky

,

lewarcher82

, vezokpiraka,

Toon Fighter

, Bowser, GreyICE
paupam's rat ( 1 ) - mastin2
Bowser ( 1 ) - MintKitten
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -

somerandomguy

sorgster ( 1 ) - chkflip

Empking

( 1 ) -

Maxous

Toon Fighter

( 11 ) - zMuffinMan, chkflip,

Empking

, edmund.angles, warriormode,

hiplop

, David Xanatos, HezLucky, sorgster, Bowser, vezokpiraka

hiplop

( 6 ) - paupam's rat, malpascp,

Hirarky

,

lewarcher82

,

Toon Fighter

, GreyICE

Empking

( 2 ) -

Maxous

, mastin2
Bowser ( 1 ) - MintKitten
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -

somerandomguy

sorgster ( 1 ) - chkflip

@Neruz

: That's an error in the count right? Or is chkflip on two different wagons?

Wow, huh, yeah... I don't know what's going on with chkflip's vote there. I guess i forgot to take it off sorgster and Toon Fighter.

@GI,

OK. Is it permanent or does edmund have his vote back now?

[zMuffinMan]

Also why steal edmund's vote N1?

[zMuffinMan]

So Neruz killed TF at L-1. hahahahaha

Bugger, i went back and counted the goddamn votes twice too to make sure i was right. That is incredibly infuriating.

[zMuffinMan]

Also to confirm myself town.

Yeah, totally.

[zMuffinMan]

Hey, scum. GI is confirmed town. Kill him tonight, please. ty

[zMuffinMan]

dude you're confirmed town. scum should kill you. can't have confirmed town walking around being alive and shit.

KILL GI, SCUM. HE'S THE BEST KILL.

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, you got me. I'm scum, like hiplop and maxous before me. My team is doomed - GI is on the case.

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: pappums

[zMuffinMan]

Don't send one to me, please, I just prod dodged.

[zMuffinMan]

@zMuffin: Could you recap why you want pappums lynched?

Because I think he is scum.

In game communication.

HA HA HA

Yerp. I'm scum and I think the best kill is a vote stealer and I'm unnecessarily communicating this to my team.

Someone else?

He isn't.

[zMuffinMan]

Nah, I'm unemployed. GI is a liar. Lynch all liars.

[zMuffinMan]

risking being analyzed by me.

This brought a smile to my face for a couple reasons.

You're claiming that it's something they wouldn't do for fear of being analysed by you, right?

Slowly explain the logic here (without referring to psychology), because you're convinced there can't be any more scum on that early wagon, and in my books, that makes it a really, really good place for scum to be.

I'm not saying that scum was necessarily there, but discounting them purely because of bandwagon analysis that isn't necessarily correct makes no sense.

mastin, why do you think Edmund is scum?

Just tell me what has changed you mind or why you think you were wrong here

Because I originally skipped over the fact that TF's vote was on pappums for a very, very brief period of time, and I'm not going to rule out possible distancing, when everything else about pappums play makes me think he's scum (fake caplock rage at hiplop, timing of his hiplop vote and the timing of the TF wagon sprouting, the fact he was unwilling to consider moving his vote, despite saying he'd be perfectly fine with either hiplop or TF being lynched today, the fact that he tried to get away with calling hiplop town for meta reasons early in the game then flip-flopped on this, etc etc).

Anyway, I need to put some proper effort into this game at some point today.

Been lazy, etc.

I believe it was Zdenek?

If you start a wagon on Cpt Opportunistic, I will sheep you so very, very fast.

Ready and willing to OMGUS

[zMuffinMan]

hahahahaha

I was reading the game again because I figured I'd be nice and give a summary of the events in this game so far.

Up to this post...

#414

TOWN:

Toon
Phoebus

...

No. I'm NOT wrong about these reads. There might be ONE read in here which is off, but that's pretty much it. Sheep me for the win.

[zMuffinMan]

Uh.

D1 is basically.

- mastin gives reads based on confirmation posts

- wagon forms on him (2 dead town, 2 dead scum, malpascp and tomie-sorgster are still alive from it and mastin claims this makes them conf.town)

- mastin wagon stalls

- new wagons form (like a whole bunch of them)

- hiplop is one of them (the original wagon was maxous-deadtown, torqez/Hez, hiraki-deadtown and then TF-deadscum joined it)

- TF wagon begins on p9 (GI, vezok, hiplop-deadtown)

- TF wagon stalls for a bit and eventually dies again. At this point hiplop's wagon looks like this: hiplop(deadtown) ( 6 ) - Maxous(deadtown), Torqez(Hez), Hirarky(deadtown), Toon Fighter(deadscum), paupam's rat(Amrun), GreyICE

- Bowser(CSL), vezok and malpascp join the hiplop wagon

- Bowser(CSL) wagon forms briefly around here: Bowser ( 4 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles, Empking(deadtown), zMuffinMan

- Hiraki, chkflip join the Bowser(CSL) wagon, Bowser(CSL) unvotes hiplop(deadtown)

This is what the votecount looks like at this point (#509)

hiplop ( 6 ) - Maxous, Torqez, Toon Fighter, paupam's rat, vezokpiraka, malpascp
Bowser ( 6 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles, Empking, zMuffinMan, Hirarky, chkflip
mastin2 ( 2 ) - Tomie Uzumaki, Phoebus
Tomie Uzumaki ( 2 ) - mastin2, Pine
zMuffinMan ( 2 ) - somerandomguy, hiplop
Toon Fighter ( 2 )- GreyICE, warriormode

- hiplop(deadtown) joins Bowser(CSL) wagon, Bowser(CSL) revotes hiplop then switches to tomie shortly afterwards, then switches to chkflip. Also lewarcher(Phoebus,deadscum) replaces around here.

- TF wagon forms again (GI, warriormode, muffin, chkflip), a pappums wagon briefly forms (hiplop, mastin, bowser), chkflip unvotes TF and votes pappums. vezok sheeps the pappums wagon. GI moves to pappums. TF moves to pappums. GI moves back to TF. Hiraki moves to hiplop. Empking sheeps Hiraki and moves to hiplop.

- lew does a big catchup post in #618 lololol I need to actually analyse this at some point in time when I stop being lazy

- also need to go back and look at this at some point #625 I swear vezok spent all of D1 saying he wanted to see TF dead but never actually voted for him

- Bowser wagon picks up speed again, along with pappum wagon, votecount around here looks like this:


Bowser ( 6 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles, Maxous, warriormode, vezokpiraka, Empking
paupam's rat ( 5 ) - hiplop, mastin2, Bowser, chkflip, Toon Fighter
hiplop ( 4 ) - Torqez, paupam's rat, malpascp, Hirarky,
Toon Fighter ( 2 ) - zMuffinMan, GreyICE
mastin2 ( 1 ) - Tomie Uzumaki
Tomie Uzumaki ( 1 ) - Pine
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) - somerandomguy

- lew does another catchup post here and votes chkflip, need to look at this at some point in time, too.

- whole bunch of talking happens, skip to p29 and not much has changed

Bowser ( 6 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles, Maxous, vezokpiraka, Empking, Toon Fighter
hiplop ( 4 ) - Torqez, paupam's rat, malpascp, Hirarky
paupam's rat ( 3 ) - hiplop, mastin2, Bowser
Toon Fighter ( 3 ) - zMuffinMan, GreyICE, chkflip
mastin2 ( 1 ) - Tomie Uzumaki
Tomie Uzumaki ( 1 ) - Pine
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) - somerandomguy
chkflip ( 1 ) - lewarcher82

- lew moves to hiplop here. empking moves to TF. maxous moves to hiplop. vezok moves to hiplop. TF moves to hiplop.


hiplop ( 8 ) - HezLucky, paupam's rat, malpascp, Hirarky, lewarcher82, Maxous, vezokpiraka, Toon Fighter
Toon Fighter ( 4 ) - zMuffinMan, GreyICE, chkflip, Empking
paupam's rat ( 3 ) - hiplop, mastin2, Bowser
Bowser ( 2 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles
mastin2 ( 1 ) - Tomie Uzumaki
Tomie Uzumaki ( 1 ) - Pine
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) - somerandomguy

- Hez unvotes hiplop, Hez moves back to hiplop (L-3), Bowser(CSL) moves to hiplop (L-2), Hez moves to pappums. As a side note, #783 is hilarious.

- Whole bunch of nothing happens, then we get to p35 where the votecount looks like this

hiplop ( 9 ) - paupam's rat, malpascp, Hirarky, lewarcher82, Maxous, vezokpiraka, Toon Fighter, Bowser, sorgster
Toon Fighter ( 6 ) - zMuffinMan, GreyICE, chkflip, Empking, edmund.angles, warriormode
paupam's rat ( 3 ) - hiplop, mastin2, HezLucky
Bowser ( 1 ) - MintKitten
Tomie Uzumaki ( 1 ) - David Xanatos
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) - somerandomguy


- chkflip moves to hiplop (L-1), sorgster unvotes and revotes hiplop and a few people think hiplop was hammered

- chkflip moves to sorgster for "fake hammering". maxous unvotes hiplop because of hiplop's reaction to the fake hammer. GI derps and votes for hiplop (L-2). DavidX moves to hiplop (L-1). hiplop moves to TF. sorgster moves to chkflip, hiplop is L-2. hiplop claims VT (lolololol). DavidX unvotes hiplop because of the claim and moves to TF.

- I'm all like FUCK YEAH 4 votes required to lynch TF. Hez moves to TF. sorgster moves to TF (L-2) and hiplop is L-3 here.

Toon Fighter ( 9 ) - zMuffinMan, chkflip, Empking, edmund.angles, warriormode, hiplop, David Xanatos, HezLucky, sorgster
hiplop ( 8 ) - paupam's rat, malpascp, Hirarky, lewarcher82, vezokpiraka, Toon Fighter, Bowser, GreyICE

- There's an error in the votecount here, chkflip is not on the TF wagon.

- mastin claims he isn't going to vote for TF or hiplop because they're both town.

- Bowser(CSL) moves from hiplop to TF (L-1). vezok hammers.

- We start D2 with lew-scum dead and hiplop-VT dead (????)

- GI starts a wagon on Edmund, picks up speed with mastin, Empking, Maxous, sorgster, Hez....

- Zdenek votes Maxous, I vote Pappums, GI moves to Maxous. I'm all like "dude maxous is town" but apparently that's a fucktarded concept. warriormode, edmund, malpascp all move to maxous in quick succession. vezok votes edmund. sorgster votes mastin. pappums votes edmund.

edmund.angles ( 7 ) - mastin2, Empking, David Xanatos, Maxous, HezLucky, vezokpiraka, pappums rat
Maxous ( 4 ) - GreyICE, Zdenek, warriormode, malpascp
Pappum's Rat ( 1 ) - zMuffinMan
mastin2 ( 1 ) - sorgster

- Hez moves to maxous. mastin votes Empking. Empking votes vezok. CSL votes Maxous and HoS on edmund, claiming they're both "scummy as fuck". Somewhere around here we find out that edmund's vote was stolen N1. I move my vote to Hiraki. Empking, sorgster, DavidX move to maxous in quick succession (L-1 now)

- mastin votes DavidX, chkflip joins him, GI double-votes Maxous and hammers. vezok votes maxous after maxous has been hammered. maxous lynched, and now we're at D3.

- So far D3 we've had GI claim vote-stealer who did not steal anyone's vote last night and there's been a fuckton of lurking from every player.

[zMuffinMan]

sleep then posting. maybe.

[zMuffinMan]

did.... sorgster just say.... "hiraki is voting for me"?

[zMuffinMan]

mastin, recap why Bowser is town.

[zMuffinMan]

btw, edmund is town.

[zMuffinMan]

OK, so, getting some food then finally putting effort into this game.

PS: Your reads are craptastic, Zdenek.

[zMuffinMan]

prod dodge.

looking forward to sifting through that wall of crap in the morning.

I maintain that your reads are craptastic. It has nothing to do with how much they align with mine, it has to do with how you arrived at them.

[zMuffinMan]

So, a quick response to zdenek's "case" on me...

Mastin is town for saying that he's town and an early made-up reads list = Bullshit.

Part of the reason I said that was to get reactions (and it's taken roughly 1300 pages for someone to react to it, so I'm pretty shit at reaction-fishing). (Similarly, I've also said anyone who calls me town is town, and only Edmund has responded to that one)

Part of the reason I said that was because I honestly believe it. Do you have a problem with that?

Then there's his shitty argument with Hiplop over how doing things that can seem pre-town can be scummy. Which is basically drivel because someone thinking that can't have any bearing on their alignment, and he went on and on about it.

Yes. I was arguing with hiplop. I find that arguing with people helps me get a feel for their alignment. I know this is a crazy and foreign concept, but it works for me somehow. Maybe I'm special?

That was not fence-sitting or lining up lynches coming from Tomie

Well, it was.

Her argument was that if mastin is town, I'm scum (or she didn't even commit to that... I think she just said "muffin needs to be looked at" without saying she thinks I'm scum if mastin is town, which is probably where I got the fence-sitting idea from). But she was also strongly pushing a mastin lynch as her #1 suspect, which makes absolutely no sense.

---

I'm somewhat disappointed. You had like 100 +S posts for me and that's the best you have?

What's interesting is that you think I'm scum, right? And you think I bussed TF hard, after bussing Phoebus for a long time, and based on your current suspicions, I'm guessing you think I'm bussing the rest of the scum team as well?

[zMuffinMan]

hey, chkflip wasn't on the TF lynch. That was a mod error.

Also chuckled a bit that mastin brings up being right about maxous as semi-proof that he's right about other things. hint: if you call enough people town, you're bound to be right some of the time.

anyways, I'm sleepy. Might finally post something when I'm awake. Maybe.

[zMuffinMan]

@zMuffinMan: Could you give an updated summary of your reads, please? Is Pappum's/Amrun still your preferred lynch?

Preferred lynch? Yes. Will I get what I want? Not likely. Fuck this town.

Town: edmund, GI (<-GOOD SCUM KILL RIGHT HERE), Hez, mastin, DavidX, sorgster
Maybe town?: chkflip, zdenek (he's a cumb dunt, though)
Maybe scum?: CSL, warriormode, vezok
Scum: amrun, malpascp

[zMuffinMan]

And, oh yes, I think mastin is so very, very wrong in so many of his reads. But he's still town.

[zMuffinMan]

My town reads are unlikely to change in this game. I'm sure the remaining scum are in those 7 I listed that aren't town reads. I'm just not 100% sure on where in that list they are.

I would prefer not to lynch the players in my maybe-town list today.

Any of the bottom 5 would be cool, though.

[zMuffinMan]

@edmund,

I've played with him as town. The differences in his town meta and scum meta are like the differences in andrew's town meta and scum meta or shotty's town meta and scum meta. If you think you can tell the difference, you probably play with them a bit too much.

I don't think he's scum because of anything in particular that's different to when he's town. I think he's scum because he's playing like scum. His push on hiplop looked disingenuous (and I think that whole hiplop wagon needs to die, actually, but malpascp and Amrun first and *hopefully* scum kills GI and well, after that there won't be much of the wagon left, and I'll be a happy chappy). He's done absolutely nothing in terms of scum hunting and his ISO is void of content. He needs to die. I'll accept vigging also, if the SK or vig would be so kind.

[zMuffinMan]

wow, I am so glad that I am the most scum and the most town according to an analysis of TF's ISO. I was worried that I would be one or the other, and that would sadden me.

ISO analyses are useless without understanding the context around the posts. For example, in the post where TF questions mastin's town read on me, it's because two posts prior to that Maxous asked how mastin had a town read on me from a single post. It went maxous->mastin->TF quoting mastin. The very simple explanation for this is that TF couldn't think of anything better to post at the time and settled for asking a redundant question and hoping that allowed him to skate by for a while. It also means that both mastin and I are town, but that's just because we are town, and there's no point questioning that.

I don't understand why people are saying lewarcher's ISO had zero content. His ISO had a fair bit of content for the quantity of posts. If I wasn't extreeeeeemely lazy, I'd analyse it myself. But I am, so I won't.

[zMuffinMan]

OK, so I quickly skimmed lew's ISO. CSL is town. chkflip is meh - probtown, not entirely sure. lew had a major hardon for uprising. It

may

have been distancing, because chkflip was never anywhere close to being lynched.

[zMuffinMan]

@edmund,

Pappums voted hiplop before TF seemed in real danger of getting lynched.

That's actually the point.

Humour me for a bit...

You're pappums and you're scum, do you:

(a) wait for the wagon on your scum buddy to pick up more speed before getting on a counter-wagon and pushing for a mislynch, or

(b) get on a counter-wagon early and push it hard for the rest of the day, saying that you realise your buddy is scummy but that the wagon you're on is the best lynch?

hint: the answer is (b)

He was voting hiplop, the largest of the wagons he liked, why should town-pappums change his vote to TF?

Well, no.

Up until around #750, hiplop's wagon was about the same as Toon Fighter's wagon, and for a fair amount of time, if Pappums had changed his vote, TF's wagon would have been larger than hiplop's wagon.

The bigger issue I have is that I think posts like #772 are crap and simply not genuine.

PR could see hiplop's later actions as more important than his early game read. The meta-read seems a little contrived, though.

I understand what you mean. I think you're wrong. The meta read was bullshit. The flip-flop on hiplop was bullshit.

[zMuffinMan]

You can ask, but will I oblige? No.

I'll make you a deal, though. If you put your vote on scum, I'll sheep it.

[zMuffinMan]

@chk,

You're right. I am awesome.

Right now I'd say your vote is more useless than mine because you are voting for a townie and I am not.

Yes, my vote on scum has less support, but hey, dem's da breaks.

[zMuffinMan]

btw {malpascp, Amrun, vezok, warriormode} <- any of these names are acceptable vig shots after we inevitably mislynch today.

[zMuffinMan]

I am mastin's disciple. zMartyrMan.

[zMuffinMan]

No, but really, there's still more than enough time to get a bandwagon going on someone else.

Instead of resigning to either a chkflip or davidx lynch, I'd rather go after a suspect of mine.

Can you tell me why you wouldn't want to vote, say... malpascp? Or Amrun?

I think there's a fuckton more reasons to go after them than to go after chkflip or davidx. I'm not sold on chkflip being town, but davidx is.

Help me get someone else lynched. You did the exact same thing D1 with hiplop.

There is tons of time to get a different lynch happening so don't go into apathetic mode and tell me it can't be done.

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote

VOTE: malpascp

Is this lynch easier to make happen?

He's absolutely useless if he is town, and there are so many reasons to believe he's not actually town.

[zMuffinMan]

Mastin.

You're assuming that scum was keeping track of who else was on the wagon at the time (hint: when they see an "easy lynch", they may miss that their partners are already on the wagon) OR it's entirely possible that Phoebus jumped on the mastin wagon in spite of two buddies already being on it just for the sake of it.

Do you think malpascp is town independent of that one thing?

Tell me who's scum when DavidX flips town?

[zMuffinMan]

Amrun.

[zMuffinMan]

DavidX is town. You are wrong.

[zMuffinMan]

What looks town?

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, try to ignore me again after I've proven myself to have been right

yet again

.

Um................

Flips mastin has been right about:

hiplop, Maxous, Hiraki

Flips mastin has been wrong about:

Phoebus-lewarcher, Toon Fighter, Empking

[zMuffinMan]

I'd be more convinced you could actually be right if you weren't telling me that DavidX is scum.

He's not.

You're telling me I should be lynching someone who is town over lynching someone you think is town. You've called both scum flips town.

Perhaps you can see why I'm skeptical about this.

[zMuffinMan]

*sigh* I don't like mastin.

cbf posting the wall, dead QT has most of my thoughts on this game anyway.

I'll leave it at this: for mastin and pretend this game never happened.

This quote from mastin is just so amazingly dumb it's not even funny:

I thought of that scenario FIRST. I concluded it was extremely doubtful at best, due to the whole game balance thing, but still, it was my first thought. To look at my scumread of Zdenek and think if he was scum as I thought. If Zdenek was town, it would have been his as well. He'd have looked for any scenario in which I wasn't scum, and at least considered it, trying to make me consider a situation where he wasn't scum. Especially since I laid down a vote on him, first. Especially since I said there was no situation in which Zdenek wouldn't be my vote.

Also, I found this post absolutely hilarious: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3447098

[zMuffinMan]

(dead QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/BwPd3GwJzDQf)

[zMuffinMan]

That's totally not the scum QT

[zMuffinMan]

oh, scum had day talk. that makes a little more sense balance-wise, I guess.

[zMuffinMan]

I think the biggest thing that we can all take away from this is that if you're a vig in a game with mastin, you need to shoot him as early as possible. Lesson learnt, I hope I never fail this badly again.

[zMuffinMan]

Honestly, I didn't have *that* much of a problem with you because you were transparent, but you really need to stop being stubborn about your reads when it's mostly based on votes and not actually reading players.

And you not thinking through MyLo was ugh...

I just... can't believe that you accused zdenek of scum for not realising you were "trapping" him by saying you weren't going to move your vote from him. Your whole thought process at MyLo just made ZERO sense.

Like I play similarly to you (I think) - my style of scum hunting is almost entirely based on analysing tone and motivation (mixed with some vote analysis), but wow, your reads were like completely opposite mine for some reason and I really don't understand why, for example, edmund and davidx were scum reads for you. They were so blatantly town in my books. edmund for the entire game and davidX because of how he reacted to hiplop's claim and subsequent vote on TF, followed by the apathy (which, albeit was shit, was still coming from him as town).

And yeah.... 2:1:1 with a claimed hider who "confirmed" CSL is town and you're town? HOW. DOES. THIS. WORK?

Why didn't you guys iso me after I died?? The first 2 I attacked were vezok and chkflp. There was a reason he killed me and I wasn't a conftownie at that point I believe.

Um, I'm fairly sure he killed you because he wasn't sure if he was the only scum left. He didn't want to kill scum's target. At least that's what I'm assuming the reasoning was. Either that, or implicating mastin or something.

[zMuffinMan]

That mean nothing, lol... :/

[zMuffinMan]

I liked your modding, just be stricter with playerlist next time (although I'm aware it took ages to fill, so I guess this wasn't an option)

I'd play in your games again.

[zMuffinMan]

actually, there was probably no way you could really predict pappums, hiraki, etc flaking. that was just BL. Some games are especially bad with replacements, shit happens.