NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!

[Slandaar]

VOTE: DavidParker

I only signed up to this game so I could lynch him. Help me out.

Consider yourself helped

VOTE: DavidParker

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UNVOTE: DavidParker
I found a Mafia!
VOTE: theamatuer

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Lets all direct the hate towards ama, he kills innocent townies when they cannot afford to pay him his protection moneys!

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who the fuck are you

You trying to discredit me cos i founds your scum buddy?

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I actually agree with a policy lynch but not that one

Vote: zdenek

let's policy lynch the person who suggested the policy lynch

If there's anyone I'd consider PLing in this game, it's you, Beck.

I agree with beck

vote: Pine

'I agree with beck' 'but im gonna vote pine' it makes no sense, Pine doesnt suggest a policy lynch, so the vote is completely random, the reason and vote do not match. Hiraki, can you explain why you have not noticed this?

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bv did you read Revs posts before voting?

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what do you make of someone who does not correct a mistake and instead rolls with it? do you find it townie or scummy?

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Actually Pine was talking about PLing Beck, so I voted him instead.
No one PLs Beck.

Pine was saying if he were to PL it would be beck, but he obviously didnt go with that, so no, he was not talking about PL beck.

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Why are you now voting zdenek?

also, I like lists!

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I have not played with him before and am not going to take your opinion of his play from a different game into consideration when tryign to figure out his alignment.

why do you say 'you guys' when its literally just me ?

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And how are lists of town bad? They also help town figure out the game.

THIS! lets not get into a huge debate about it though

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I can completely understand why Zdenek would be a target of a PL

so, lets get back to lynching theama.

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you guys do realise that he obv played terrible like this in the game which was quoted? its pretty null...

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Ama changed his vote basically because I told him to ie he flaked under very small pressure...

also I am tired, those last 2 posts were basically me thinking Z = target of policy lynch so ignoring them would be advised if you are town...

anyways Z MUST know he will get tons of heat for his last post, I do not think its a good vote

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But, do you think he really makes that 'blathering' post as scum? he must have played a few games going by his join date... so, he must know how much heat he will take for it, so it just seems unlikely he does that as scum.

It seems like he is a townie who doesn't care, or a jester maybe? if they are in the game...

It does kind of depend on his level of experience, if he has only played like 2 games I would think its more likely hes scum ...

Pine however, seems scummy, not understanding the case was really odd it seemed pretty obvious to me...

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Zel wagon is bad

@David: what do you think of Hiraki so far?

I like the pine vote too, he said he was town in a far scummier way than Zel...

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(See, Beck? This is how one scumhunts. You focus on more than one person at a time.)

'See?! im town and scumhunting !!!'

This is way more scummy than someone just plain saying they are town, yet he voted Zel. in other words : subtle hint scummier than in your face im town claim

I find David pretty scummy for jumping on Zel too... (he jumped off fast too which im not sure about)

The problem I think I have is I got no clue about this meta stuff thats going on, Zel seems town to me though and has since his vote on Hiraki, thats was a good townie post.

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So zelink deciding before game even began he wanted to lynch me on day 1 is fine, but me doing the same to him is scummy? Some quality contradictions there.

He moved off you after RVS, you however voted him in serious vote stage for no good reason. I dont know anything about why you are voting each other and dont care, but your vote is scummy.

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@Slandaar: How is that "calling myself Town"? Town scumhunts, Scum scumhunts, even third party scumhunts. The only people that don't are people too wrapped up in themselves to do it.

Scum dont scumhunt, they pretend to scumhunt, you cant genuinely scumhunt when you know who the scum are already.

Scumhunting implies town.

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I have never played a game with a 3rd party in a game so take that as you will.

Why did you feel the need to consider every option to choose your response? do you fear the response you give will out yourself?

You could have just responded with the second paragraph

This is WIFOM. The above quote damns me in either direction; on one hand I could respond directly and explain how I feel I've been scumhunting, implying (not outright stating) that I am Town, and you "catch me" labeling myself again. On the other, I deny the tacit accusation, and "admit" to not scumhunting. This is an example of early confirmation bias on your part; you've already decided how you want to view me, so you don't actually engage in argument and investigation, you just blather seemingly-clever lines like the above and then go "Aha!"

Now, heres the thing, I never asked him a question, there was never any WIFOM, there was never any need to answer as he is saying he could have. I stated the way he implied he was town was scummy, he asked how he did, i explained and now hes saying that its WIFOM because he is damned whatever he says. Well thats not the point, he is 'damned' (this is highly exaggerated at the time I was viewing him as slight scum read) because he did something I find scummy.

lets look at his examples

'I could respond directly and explain how I feel I've been scumhunting, implying (not outright stating) that I am Town'
Why would someone respond like this to my post? it makes no sense. Why does he feel the need to convince me hes town ?

'On the other, I deny the tacit accusation, and "admit" to not scumhunting.'
Again, why does he feel the need to respond like this? What was he responding to exactly?

PINE WAS LOOKING FOR A WAY TO GET ME TO THINK HE IS TOWN BUT COULD NOT FIND ONE!

Pine also was on zel for terribad reasoning, he needs to go here.

UNVOTE: theamatuer
VOTE: Pine

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IM OBV TOWN

This is my read on beck

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Slander, I still don't get your reasons for your amateur vote, can you explain better why you were pushing on him earlier and your thoughts of him currently.

I dunno how I can explain it better than I did previously, he hasnt really looked townier since, his last post isnt too good either so hes still slightly scummy to me.

Pine is the better vote right now.

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One of beck/pine is probably scum. Of course, considering Beck's record, he's probably caught another townie again >.>

Explain why please

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Revenus, do you find anyone scummy right now?

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@Revenus: what exactly do you think pine has said that makes you think hes town? can you point out a post you agree with?

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Vote SS17

Has not done anything since his random vote.

Do you find everyone who has posted content to be town?

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AKA funky first.

Why is funky scummy exactly?

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I do not understand the suspicion towards beck like at all.

Hiraki is fairly likely to be scum imo

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Beck what do you think of hiraki ?

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Interesting viewpoint re Hiraki, hmm.

I have fairly strong doubts that pine is town, why as town do you try and think of ways to make someone else think you are town?

it just doesnt happen.

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case on hiraki? lots of fluff not much actual content.

You can make that case on a lot of people, difference with hiraki though is he has been posting a fair bit unlike the others who are more just inactive.

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pine how did you come to the conclusion hawk is town?

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i dont like this 'doesnt care so town' it doesnt even make sense as it implies the ones who do care and are putting content forth are the scum...

BUT

that was a very good post from pine...

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lets not be voting pine

ok, amateur seems fairly scummy to me, hiraki too.

funkys last post was pretty scummy as hes just trying to get someone lynched for saying they are obvtown... that is not a reason to lynch someone, its just a copout vote from scum.

UNVOTE: Pine

at least ama and hiraki post some stuff, funky does not post any content at all so hes the best vote of the 3
VOTE: funkybike1

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yeah rev is right about "doesnt care" is WIFOM

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also, beck seems to get a lot of heat for how he plays fwiw i have no problem with it so far and see no reason for the hate.

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Hiraki posts, but never posts any content except a couple posts early in the game, hes tunelling and not giving thoughts on anything else...

maybe hes the best vote im not sure, will stick with funky for now

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@rev: it does not matter how good or bad his methods are

im not down with a beck lynch no, i find him very town

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Pine: one of beck/Pine is scum, and Pine seems the better canidate of the two

Why?

why does one have to be scum?

why cant they both be town?

what has alerted you to the fact one of them HAS to be scum?

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what has either said that you consider scummy?

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pops is right, it just gives the mafia more information to help make the right decision, there is no need to give said information out which could help them.

you may not think its much but if someone has a good read on rev they will be able to make a good decision about whether hes vig or not.

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I dunno, I dont think we have quite covered the subject fully yet...

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Its pointless voting funky today whatever his alignment

UNVOTE: funky

this is who I think is most likely scum :

VOTE: Hiraki

but ThAd is now firmly on my radar after his last post, that post seems really scummy.

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hes using information re the wagon on funky to try and cast suspicion on the 3 of us when we have no idea if the said wagon was scum or town, it makes no sense to do so in the way he is suggesting unless we know for sure funky is the vig... 3rd vote on scum seems pretty townie to me (i have no idea which vote mine was)

it reads to me like he knows funky is town.

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OK then ThAd lets go head to head today, you are scum im certain now

Wow, an unvote and a retaliation. Didn't expect this big a response!

What is scummy about that exactly? it seems obvious to me there is no point voting funky today whatever you think of his alignment so obv i unvote after his claim...

Beck's response to this summarises my position quite well:

I'll say I think funky is not mafia, so someone pushing his wagon is scum.

ThAd said previously:

Well obv sky is my main scum read at the moment. Other than that I have a bunch of town reads, and then there's a lot of other people who I basically can't distinguish because they haven't really done anything.

So, we can assume beck is a town read yet he does not use becks logic to find scum pushing the beck wagon, which is odd, truely, looking for any reason to get your vote on me first eh?

UNVOTE: Hiraki
VOTE: ThAdmiral

Lets go

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I am not taking it personally, I honestly believe he is scum, i did not omgus the previous suspicions of me did I?

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It struck me as interesting that you chose to jump on me directly after I called you out. It struck me as scummy because you had never mentioned any suspicions of me prior to that point, and you didn't explain at all why you thought what I said was "really scummy".

I did not suspect you, however, you were also not a town read you were basically sat at null

And yes I did explain it a couple posts later, you seem to know funky is town.

Everyone needs to read ThAdmirals posts re funky, he clearly knows something we dont regarding his alignment.

My stance re funky: who cares what his alignment is today? it will all be sorted tonight and then we can look at the wagon with proper information. ThAds stance is one of a scums disposition trying to push his sky is scum read with a nonsensical reason and threw a couple other names in there to make sure it didnt look like that.

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What?

It means your stance is wrong if you were town. If you thought people pushing a wagon who you find town are scum then thats fine, but you did not use it to find scum pushing the beck wagon so you are just using anything you can to back up your vote otherwise you would not find beck town and everyone pushing his wagon town.

Your stance summed up: someone thinks funky is scum they must be scum!

There is no way you believe that, you must be scum.

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This a gap in your logic; I am working off the assumption that funky is town in the same manner that you are working off the assumption that I am scum. What's the problem?

Why are you assuming he is town exactly? no im not assuming you are scum to make any of my other reads.

see? this is the easiest way to explain it, you are assuming someones alignment to make reads or accusations on others when there is no reason for you to assume he is town, its actually absurd.

ThAd = scum.

What's going to be sorted out tonight?

Funkys alignment

You're going to have to elaborate on this bit because, yet again, I don't understand what you are talking about.

You were looking for any reason to put skys name in a bad light again.

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maybe i should elaborate a little more

ThAd is scum because hes not assuming he KNOWS.

I see no reason to assume funky is town and assuming he is to accuse others is absolutely scummy.

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my thoughts on OMGUS

if i accuse someone they can no longer say anything bad about me or they will be accused of OMGUS.

this is not how it should work, omgus is not a scum tell like at all, in fact, because people know they will be accused of it, its probably more townie, its just an easy way for scum to make comments without really commenting on things.

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I will respond later tonight, but I will quickly point out this;

I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.

What has funky been doing exactly? yeah sitting back and sniping (bussing) so, how did you get this magical funky is town read? because his wagon was going too well? but wait a second, wasnt funky doing exactly what you think the scum are? so the votes should be vindicated from your standpoint surely?

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OK

ThAd's read on Funky is that he is town and hes very sure of this because for some reason he is assuming funky is town as shown here:

I am working off the assumption that funky is town

yet he says funky has been doing exactly what he expects scum to have been doing as shown in my #739

So, how can this be? how can ThAd assume that someone is town who cannot possibly be a town read for him? bar the claim what has funky done exactly? why is ThAd so sure the claim is legit?

It makes no sense.

So, let us delve deeper to find out about why he is saying funky is town...

I will say I think the wagon on funkybike is a bit too easy. In terms of both target and how easily it is moving along picking up followers.

OK, nitpicking a bit but the wording here is pretty bad 'I will say' townies would just start with I think... its like he was thinking of NOT saying this which again backs the theory funkys town and ThAd knows it, hes saying 'i will say this' in defence of funky which means he didn't really want to defend him. AND of course, for a town read he really didnt do much to stop the wagon this is all he said about it and for such a strong town read too... that is very scummy especially the fact he wasnt going to say it in the first place.

However the main point to use this quote was to show where his town read came from, its not terrible, but its hardly a reason to assume someone is town, again, his super strong funky is town makes absolutely no sense.

Then there is the claim of course, which should not change ones read dramatically.

Well obv sky is my main scum read at the moment. Other than that I have a bunch of town reads, and then there's a lot of other people who I basically can't distinguish because they haven't really done anything.

sky is his main scum read and then we get this;

I think the money place to look for scum on that wagon is the three S's: slaandar, sky and sodaspirit. Combination of gut feeling, my pre-existing suspicion of sky, and the fact that 3, 4, and 5 are the cliche cushy scum positions on any given wagon.

oh look coincidence? no.

OK, it is the same for any given wagon? really? so 3rd vote on scum is more likely scum than the 6th vote? really?

It is just any reason he can think of to try to justify his sky is scum read, anything at all.

My top 2 scum are ThAd and Hiraki, hiraki has posted a lot but no real content at all, its all fluff, like hes trying to appear more active/helpful than he is being.

top 2 town Beck and Zel/Pine (its close cant decide) Becks strongest by a fair bit though.

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why is he?

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I find rev fairly town but I can see the arguments against it, I just think hes been so vocal and provided a fair ammount of content that hes more likely town... he does not give me the same ease of calling him town you/pine/zel do though...

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exactly we dont know, so why not wait until tomorrow when we will? the vigs just gonna kill him (or try) if he isnt the real vig... and if he is we will know because someone other than him will get hit by the vig, right?

How did he make himself an object of attention? by not contributing at all, of course the wagons going to go well, its a pretty decent vote for townies as hes not being useful in anyway at all... so either way he flips isnt terrible, if town meh, if scum then obv thats great.

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ThAd didnt analyze the wagon fwiw, he just said some random comment about 3/4/5 being more likely scum... its pretty hard to analyze the wagon when we dont know Funkys alignment yet and it should at least encorporate the reasons people voted not the positions they voted...

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Right now, I'm looking at Rev as likely scum, as he seems to not be contributing much other than extremely weak votes on lurkers.

Yeah, why is funky such an obvious town read again beck?

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How sure are you funky is scum salandaar?

Sure enough that if he flips town, we can lynch you tomorrow?

I am not sure at all, but, i AM sure there is no way people can have super strong town reads on him when hes done like nothing all game, i think you missed the point of my last post too...

Funky the guy who has posted approximately 0 content is voting someone for not posting content, do you not see the irony? its actually pretty scummy voting someone for doing what you are doing (it does not matter if his reasons are valid) a lurker voting a lurker is scummy as it implies the lurker thinks lurking is scummy but they are doing it so they cannot possibly think lurking is scummy as they themselves are town... or not.

My read on funky is fairly scummy

I have hiraki and ThAd as previously said as scummier right now.

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also beck rev was using sarcasm...

we are not lynching rev today, everyone needs to start voting ThAdmiral

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Beck, explain your town read on funky please

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Username is town.

You heard it here first!

Anyways, good case on rev, I still find ThAd scummier, he really needs to be lynched today...

@Beck: why did you not explain your town read on funky?

@ThAd: why are you assuming funky is town?

Also using ThAd's reasoning that funkys wagon went too well so hes town, I will use said logic to prove ThAd is scum by reversing it, if a wagon does not go well its because they are scum. So lets get to voting ThAd ya?

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your reason is terribly WIFOM

Which question did I miss?

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your reason had context, his was just they voted 3/4/5 which is not even remotely scummy, you didnt actually suggest to hunt scum on the wagon you just said who were the 2 people you find most scummy on it... I dont see the similarities.

I do not remember saying I cant see funky being town, please show me where I did so.

I find him scummy but not to the levels I find ThAd so why would I be voting him?

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if funky is good enough to know that he will look terrible for bussing people as scum hes good enough to know that people will percieve his actions as something scum wouldnt do because its too obvious

I dont think its as obvious as you are making it out to be however...

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Does anyone (other than beck and ThAd) have a town read on funky? or is assuming funky is town?

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Beck let us assume that funky is scum for a second, what is your read on ThAd?

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I am assuming you currently think hes town, if this is wrong do correct me while answering the above.

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Why is ThAd town? what has he done thats so townish?

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Beck why are you using my opinion as fact when you find me suspicious?

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Is there a game where beck is scum and he posts a ton ?

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I really dont like using such hardcore wifom to justify a read on someone...

Beck, have you played much with funky before?

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ThAd has gone quiet, hes trying to escape the limelight!

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Heres why lynching rev is bad:

He has posted a lot, if hes scum it will become clearer and will give us more stuff to use later, the better lynches are the quieter people and ThAd as ThAd was very quiet until I jumped on him.

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Why not soda?

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btw in neither of those scum games was your post count anywhere near your town levels, you may want to look into that assuming you are town here...

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@theama: What exactly makes you think I am not town?

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can someone lay out the case on shattered? he hasnt contributed much and is pretty delusional but I have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such

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@slandaar: its not that I think you're scum right now, its that you're a null for me, and that your scumhunting consists of too many questions and not enough statements.
Most people that say you're town do not give a case, esp username. So yeah/
And funky should post info.

You might be town after all.

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@rev: can you present a case on beck if you are town please, I need to see your though process behind why you find beck scummy.

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That does not make one scum.

It is just a PL which you said it wasnt?

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rev, why is beck scummy?

you may think hes terrible at the game, that does not make him scummy however.

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Rev, I need to know how much experience do you have playing mafia?

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beck which post best outlines your case?

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I think rev is town

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zde could be scum

ThAd is the scummiest player in this game.

Hiraki is pretty scummy

Shattered is delusional and isnt a bad lynch

Soda/Sky/David are all posting a total of ZERO content and I would be happy lynching either, less so sky based on ThAd being scum but I can be wrong.

Funky is slightly scummy but he has his claim so leave him today see what happens tonight

Pine/Me/Beck/Rev/Zel/Username = Town

theama = likely town

pops I find slightly townish

bv unsure

I forgot a few, I probably have no opinion on them, this is off the top of my head but those I forgot are too under the radar and are not bad lynches either probably.

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Thats how I see the game, noone I find town is being todays lynch, thanks.

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beck read his ISO it is pretty townish the way hes looking around pushing these quieter people

and then he goes for you

lol

do you think scum does that? yeah wifom i know, but combine that with the quantity of posts and there is some decent reasoning there and I have come to the conclusion hes most likely town. I think he genuinely thinks you are not scum hunting and are faking it all, which is reasonable as some of your cases are not the best

Unfortunately he could not explain this himself, so I am not 100% set in stone hes town...

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honestly I just wrote my reads out and I forgot about sword, that tells me it was a fine choice.

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No more rev is scum talk today.

If anyone wants to vote a real scum vote ThAd.

And if anyone wants to explain why ThAd isnt scum that would be great too

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is that serious btw?

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Why do you not think ThAd is a good lynch?

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@Faraday: explain this funky read

And he's real vague about, like he's pretending he doesn't know something about the set up.

Am I?

SV is a decent vote, the funky and rev wagons are bad though.

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faradays reads: theres a couple odd ones funky/SV/sky

need explanation in more detail.

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theama, i ask questions, that is my style.

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ThAdmiral is scum part 2.

yo, catching up.

Town lists are awful. You know who likes finding town? Scum. This is always a red flag for me when someone looks for town over scum.

You are wrong.

I agree with this.
It feels like sky is overreacting to seem like: "hay guise, I'm hunting scum!"

This is ThAd's reason for voting sky, its fine for an early stage vote I guess but there isnt really any meat behind it.

Here's my problem with townlists. It's Day 1. There's nothing much to go off of. To find pro town traits in someone this early in the game is questionable. Yes, there are people who are more town than others, and people who are scummier. But this doesn't establish them as town. Now, I need a lot of reading to do and seeing that is the weekend, I don't have the time to do it.

I also disagree with this. Not saying that reads can't change but you can sometimes get pretty clear signals about other people alignments, even on day one. I don't get how you could be up to date enough to know this is a relevant comment, but you also say you need to read and you don't comment on anything else?
I'm happy with my vote.

@ everyone else: sky is slipping under the radar pretty comfortably right now. Need moar votes on him.

Here is the only other reason we are given. Again it is hardly very convincing, I do not see the scummyness in it at all.

Well obv sky is my main scum read at the moment. Other than that I have a bunch of town reads, and then there's a lot of other people who I basically can't distinguish because they haven't really done anything.

So at post 573!! sky is ThAd's biggest scum read, for what exactly?

Well, ThAd is just tunnelling someone whos an easy target (a lurker)

Why 500 posts into the game is this the summiest player? it really makes no sense. Why not soda? or sword? or any of the other numerous people with approximately 0 content.

Its because ThAd is scum.

More evidence: ThAd's input into the game was minimal, he was putting in just enough to slip under the radar but not be considered a lurker. His input drastically increases when I call him out. Before that he did not really contribute at all, what was he called out on? claiming sky, myself and soda were good to look at as our votes were 3/4/5 on funky, a read he cannot explain adequately. He wanted to justify his sky is scum read anyway he could...

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so, you guys wanna vote ThAd with me or what?

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I dont like this funky is town read, is funky some super strong mafia that all the others are rallying to protect... hmmm

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why zel?

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amateur beck rev and faraday are scum reads?

please explain them

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No, I meant town reads.

k, you can still explain them though ?

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Zelink has done close to nothing other than say I'm obvtown everyone.

many others have done similar

why specifically zel? calling himself town is scummy?

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Do explain, what do you mean by its a trap?

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Im thinking we should lynch SV even though ThAd is scummiest player by a long shot.

if he flips scum which there is a fairly decent chance too then alls good we can celebrate etc.

however, if he flips town, we have some super solid scum reads right? we are guaranted 3/4 scum from his reads which we can now trust... so this seems to benefit us also... I see no reason not to lynch him in fact

unless, his reads are not as good as he claims...

what do you think SV?

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It could be a psychological trap. I'm sure I've said this before but he can keep repeating he is town , and if he is scum, we will all think that he is obvtown or whatever since he's said it too many times.

Why not just ignore the trolling he was doing by calling himself obvtown and check his other posts and get a read.

I very much doubt he would have repeated it so many times if he didnt get heat for just calling himself town.

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I agree with faraday btw, I find zel very town.

[Slandaar]

and i found him town before the obvtown stuff so that was not a factor of any kind

[Slandaar]

@theama: why are you voting SV? reasons for his scummyness please

[Slandaar]

@Sky: what is your opinion of SV then now?

[Slandaar]

delusions of grandeur != scum

I dont mind the lynch as I have said, but its not really a lynch based on scummyness from what I have seen.

[Slandaar]

No again. He's not been sniping he's been trolling.

Who thinks Funky has been Trolling?

I feel like the scum is sitting back and sniping. In any case it's what I'd do as scum.

What has funky been doing exactly? yeah sitting back and sniping (bussing) so, how did you get this magical funky is town read? because his wagon was going too well? but wait a second, wasnt funky doing exactly what you think the scum are? so the votes should be vindicated from your standpoint surely?

No, basically. Who's he bussing btw? I thought you said I knew funky was town?

Why was there no explanation of the town read?

This response doesn't even make sense, 'thought I knew funky was town' makes perfect sense with what I said.

[Slandaar]

well I feel that he's about equal scumminess with pops

Why?

[Slandaar]

@Funky: why did you unvote?

@beck: if I am your top suspect vote me, why are you voting SV if you dont intend to keep your vote there?

[Slandaar]

Beck, I find you both town, why would i vote rev when I think hes town so that tomorrow I can vote you off who I think is also town? it makes 0 sense.

Sky seems townish

SV is more a PL than anything the way I see it, Hiraki is a better vote by a long shot and ThAd better still.

[Slandaar]

- page 43 -

This response doesn't even make sense, 'thought I knew funky was town' makes perfect sense with what I said.

You are saying:
a) I'm scum because I've indicated I KNOW funky is

town

.
b) funky is bussing/funky is

scum

These two statements are incompatible and show cognitive dissonance.

Nope thats not what I said.

I said; YOU said sitting back and sniping (bussing) is what scum do and so YOUR read should not be funky = obvtown.

I do find funky slightly scummy, but as soon as you are revealed scum that will of course change, I just am accounting for the chance you are not scum and not assuming someone is something to get other reads as that is not useful (isnt that what you did?)

[Slandaar]

also I dont find shattered scummy, but hes not a bad lynch because hes useless and I do not find him town so basically hes a PL that at this stage on page 40+ seems ok.

Soda/Hawk are also in this same category

Vijays huge reads post is interesting, I find it odd that he forgets whos in the game but still manages to give a read and analysis on every player in the game.

[Slandaar]

You can go on my town list.

Also I forgot previously David is also in the SV/Soda/Hawk who cares if they are lynched category.

[Slandaar]

And then starts the debate: would scum really risk saying that?

[Slandaar]

Why would you want me to vote SV with you when you think im scum?

[Slandaar]

I prefer SV over Hawk, SV wagon has good townie voters on it not one scummy player has jumped on which kind of indicates SV is scum.

Hawk is fine to lynch he could be scum, I got tons of town reads so POE says his chance of being scum is fairlygood (this also applies to SV).

[Slandaar]

Im interested in lynching scum, im voting ThAd aren't I ?

I will move my vote later if I really am wasting it where it is but right now Im happy

[Slandaar]

anyone using voice recognition to spell my name correctly must be town!

[Slandaar]

Also using ThAd's reasoning that funkys wagon went too well so hes town, I will use said logic to prove ThAd is scum by reversing it, if a wagon does not go well its because they are scum. So lets get to voting ThAd ya?

How many times does slandaar have to logic fail before you people will vote him? Srsly guys.

Also, ThAd has to be scum here.

Hes using my not-so-srs posts as reasoning to back up his claim that I am scum.

Did anyone take my post (above) seriously? it was to point out the ridiculousness in assuming funky is town based on him getting 6? votes.

SV has 5 hes town I guess too?

It does not work like that. ThAd STILL has not explained why funky is town.

[Slandaar]

beck, pro town does not mean said person is town

anti-town does not mean said person is scum

Anyway, what ThAd was doing isnt pro-town, if funky is scum the whole dynamic of the wagon changes than if hes town, so how can you hunt scum on a wagon unless you are sure of funkys alignment?

It makes no sense and noone can explain to a satisfactory level why funky is obvtown

[Slandaar]

what makes funky town?

also, thats basically what ThAd claimed. He STILL has not pointed out one reason why funky is town except he got 6 votes...

[Slandaar]

but I've been scum twice on site and I try hard as hell to avoid those slots.

Im going on lunch break now, will do the ThAd is scum posts in a bit although im pretty sure I have pointed out tons of things already

Anyways, See this quote? it shows why hunting scum based on their voting slot is horrible.

[Slandaar]

Faraday gave a weak reason which was more acceptable, although ya, I dont have faraday as super town.

Look at Zels post re the SV wagon and Faradays thoughts, it is quite good.

[Slandaar]

SV looks like scum to me after checking those games

@Pine: why is he town based on those games?

[Slandaar]

I agree with beck

I mean that hes scum here because he is playing slightly differently, there was actually more content in those games or what seemed like content

[Slandaar]

Same guy, different player.

You want to keep the metas separate and play in a different style for both?

If so, what do you make of Pines 'yeah hes playing exactly the same as NS town' ?

[Slandaar]

I used to go off this.

Except it works half the time.

not good enough.

Seems like good odds to me.

[Slandaar]

granted not 100% the same, i get that, but if hes playing in a way that you associate it with NS town based on meta.

SV and NS styles are different.

So, I do not see where you came to NS town meta = SV town.

I think it means you are scum

[Slandaar]

of course it could just be that SV and NS styles are the same and SV is scum here...

Pretty sure one if not both of SV and Pine have to be scum.

[Slandaar]

Dude, I rethought NS town meta = SV Town before you or anyone else said jack, in 1176. It is not something I'm still going with.

To be fair you did, but for the wrong reasons, you did not notice the difference in the styles which even Beck (your opinion of him not mine) saw them.

Pine: I think SV is town based on Meta *shows 3 games of NS*

Pine : oh I didnt realise I have no scum-NS/SV games maybe Im wrong

Me: Theres big differences in those styles, SV is probably scum.

You STILL did not get why SV was scum

SV explains he plays differently as NS (waiting on confirmation)

So, you clearly did not notice the differences, which is really weird. I take from it you did not look at the games properly because you already know SVs alignment.

I think it actually confirms you scum, I need to think on this.

[Slandaar]

the other option is SV lied and he does play the same, in which case hes scum here, in which case you would have made an honest mistake (maybe the wrong word) and could be town

[Slandaar]

You have basically focused on zde 80% of the game, aka the definition of tunneling IMO

why don't you ISO ThAd, there be a lot of tunneling in that there ISO too.

[Slandaar]

he only 'scum hunts' myself and sky.

That is tunneling

[Slandaar]

OK Beck

Show me where theama said he thought I was scum in the first place.

Show me where i said tunneling = scum

Show me these three people ThAd has gone after (I said 2 myself)

Explain why if funky isnt the vig the real vig wouldnt just shoot him?

[Slandaar]

you make one quick remark about him, thats hardly anything, you dont push it in anyways or explain it.

That is not scum hunting.

Anyways, nice of you to popin with that short little comment, thats all you have to say on recent events?

[Slandaar]

so theamateur is town to you because he doesn't think you are scum anymore?

1. Doesnt really matter if he said it previously or not, you imply your read on him changes based on that one post, it's "reverse buddying"

Actually it does matter if you are going to be using it as a reason im scum as shown above.

Now its reverse buddying?

Explain how that works.

Yes my read changes on mainly that one post, why shouldn't it?

[Slandaar]

2. You are implying TheAd tunneling makes him scummy

Not really, you were implying tunneling is scummy, I was just pointing out ThAd did the exact same as sorg pretty much.

[Slandaar]

also, I took funkys claim as serious, if it wasn't serious that might explain a few things.

Which is it funky? are you the vig or not?

ThAd what did you assume?

[Slandaar]

Did you just skim the ISOs out of context? That may be leading to your incorrect opinion of the differences.

SV HIMSELF said there are purposeful differences.
So, did I not understand what he said ? (as i said waiting on confirmation)

I didnt read the full games, just skimmed ISOs, but thats really not the point, the differences are there.

Need to hear from SV which probably wont be for a while...

[Slandaar]

also that game you posted, the difference is still there, it stands out like a sore thumb to me...

[Slandaar]

Also, lol on taking someone's word on their own meta.

I completely kept the option open that SV is lieing, read my posts.

[Slandaar]

Sorg, what do you think of the soda wagon/vote?

[Slandaar]

SCUM:ThAd, Slandaar

forgetting I know my role for a sec;

I don't think this is very likely somehow.

[Slandaar]

Also, can you show why Zel and I cannot be on the same team?

[Slandaar]

You should sheep that post, it was rather good.

[Slandaar]

I don't sheep useless players. I thought he was scum but now hiraki and you endorse it, I have to rethink things.

You seem to find everyone as scummy, do you think anyone is town?

[Slandaar]

ThAd is town because hiraki and I are voting him? is that purely the reason for that read?

[Slandaar]

look, scum likely voting 3/4/5 is wifom, pure and simple.

There is no logical reasoning to suspect someone based on the position of a wagon they voted. The way they voted/reasoning is what matters. ESPECIALLY when we dont even know funkys alignment...

That is not genuine scum hunting. The only way it is, is if you KNOW funky is town, in which case it makes sense to LOOK at 3/4/5 on a SIX VOTE wagon closely because yeah there is a fair chance someone is scum there, but not when funky has not shown any townieness. It still completely depends on reasoning even then though.

You need to reasses how you view ThAd's 'scum hunting'

[Slandaar]

This simple fact that funky has to be confirned town to use that, is proof you are probably mafia. If 7 people are voting your town read, it's natural to assume scum is helping that wagon along.

1. Funky isnt a town read of mine thanks

2. I have questioned why funky is town ThAd STILL hasnt given a reasonable answer.

I understand what you are saying its literally what I JUST said, but you have to know funky is town to follow the reasoning or at least have a good reason to assume hes town, ThAd does not.

[Slandaar]

the 2 people on that wagon I am most leery of is bvoigt and theamateur

I think the money place to look for scum on that wagon is the three S's: slaandar, sky and sodaspirit. Combination of gut feeling, my pre-existing suspicion of sky, and the fact that 3, 4, and 5 are the cliche cushy scum positions on any given wagon.

This is where it stems from

[Slandaar]

Beck this is going round in circles, I saw that reasoning, its just bad, are you assuming SV is town? that wagon was going pretty well...

[Slandaar]

If you are referring to me its because I have Admiralscum in my sights

I find vijay townish, the only thing that irks me is a timing between 2 of his posts...

[Slandaar]

why is thadmiral using a newbie scumtell

that has no basis in reality

Do tell, whats this newbie scumtell?

[Slandaar]

does anyone have a link to a game where SV was town? or a couple? like as SV not NS

[Slandaar]

If you are going to meta him, you need to look at both his town and scum play.

Not exactly, I want to see if there is a difference between town NS and town SV.

[Slandaar]

I would like to know;

@SV: What is your read of me?

[Slandaar]

@SV: why is me asking you for your read on me suspicious? there is a reason I asked you specifically, yes, but I would like the read before the reason.

I think rev did actually slip there, 1433 is really weird, its not 1432 thats the slip its 33 IMO, I can see a townie saying that as it goes without saying that mafia dont nk one of their own... but 33 makes it seem like he thought he slipped.

What do others think?

[Slandaar]

Slandaar expressed some interest in getting on the rev wagon, but fence sat but asked others for opinions rather than taking a strong stance himself.

I did, do you find that scummy?

[Slandaar]

OK more votes on ThAd please, lets lynch scum today!

Sky is becoming a top town read of mine.

[Slandaar]

This is hands down my worst game ever

vote: Salandaar

I see your point

[Slandaar]

mastin have you caught up yet?

[Slandaar]

I still need to know if funkys claim was real or a joke...

[Slandaar]

Mastins probably scum but more on that later.

[Slandaar]

actually slandaar, I will give you a reprieve today if you join me in a hiraki lynch and help me drum up enough votes for him, what do you say?

I need no reprive, I have done no wrong, thanks.

Anyway, I don't like a hiraki lynch anymore.

Heres what I dont understand you say funky is town for playing too scummy to be scum, but hiraki and SV are not? this is the whole basis for your funky read and the reason you find ThAd town? you need to reasses some things.

[Slandaar]

I didn't say he was a town read.

I said I dont like a hiraki lynch.

the two are not the same.

[Slandaar]

if ThAd isnt lynched today I will be very disappointed.

@ThAd: what happened to sky=scum?

[Slandaar]

OK, here we go:

reading his iso about hiraki looks like blatant distancing and the now town read on him when hiraki has done nothing different than what slandaar original FOS'd him for is just proof imo that it is distancing IF they are scum together.

Show me the town read. Or are you making stuff up?

The problem with you slandaar is your play while seeming pro-town has no bite behind it, you just keep calling people scummy, you hardly ever take a solid stance on saying somebody is town or scum.

ORLY?

OK more votes on ThAd please, lets lynch scum today!

Sky is becoming a top town read of mine.

Im not going through my whole ISO but thats from 1 page ago.

Why are you making stuff up?

It's kind of hard to put into words, but it just sort of like you are talking just to talk and to keep the flow going, although you don't really provide anything useful in regards to scum hunting until you latch on to TheAd, which is a horrible lynch candidate for a horrible reason. You essentially are trying to get someone lynched for scum hunting in the same method that I used.

you did need a reprive, because I am begging town to listen to me this time and lynch you.

Is keeping the flow going anti town or pro town? why are you saying im scum for keeping conversation going? hm?

Definition of horrible reason to try and lynch someone: read above. Basically I m scum because I find ThAd scum and you don't huh? seems reasonable.

Previously;

@slandaar: its not that I think you're scum right now, its that you're a null for me, and that your scumhunting consists of too many questions and not enough statements.
Most people that say you're town do not give a case, esp username. So yeah/
And funky should post info.

You might be town after all.

so theamateur is town to you because he doesn't think you are scum anymore?

What have we here, so, theama thinks im scum so i gave him a town read did I? wait a second...

OK Beck
Show me where theama said he thought I was scum in the first place.

1. Doesnt really matter if he said it previously or not

LOL WAT??? that was the whole basis of your argument in the first place

Sometimes you can admit when you are wrong and not push every angle under the sun, now explain why you think im scum or I will have to assume you are as none of this makes any sense.

[Slandaar]

1. I guess I mistook not wanting him lynched as being a town read

Now, try and guess why I dont want him lynched?

2. Yesrly

I take this as a confession of being scum, i showed you an example from 1 page ago to dismiss your ridiculous argument and you still dont see it?

3. Keeping the flow going is null cause both can do it, but for you I'm not really finding much good info coming from you so it's slightly scummy

Wait a second here, isnt pro town = town? isnt that why ThAd is some super strong town read of yours? isnt he 'scum hunting' on a wagon? thats the only reason you have hes town.

So do explain the double standards.

4. Theam says you are null in that post, not scum. For that you say he may not be scum which to me implies your read changes based on his opinion of you.

This is not what you said, funny enough this is another example for point #2 anyways, I found his read to be well reasoned and so it improved my read of him, oh super scummy i know. Just because I dont give the reason doesn't mean its not there.

5. He didn't say it, but he did imply it, which is essentially the same thing.

Huh? chain of events: i say theama is scum, he says something about my style, i ask him if it makes me scum, he says null.

Nowhere did he imply it, show me where, or stop making stuff up.

I've explained why I think you are scum already.

You are scum, you have to be, you make too much up, no townie needs to do that.

[Slandaar]

SV you never did give me your read of me...

Anyway, there is no case on me, simply put. The vijay case is a bit of a mystery too.

[Slandaar]

I don't really want to guess why you don't want to lynch him, how about you just tell me

He is voting ThAd

so page 64 is probably the first or 2nd time

i remember

you calling somebody scum, what you tend to do is point to something and call it scummy, but I don't really see any explanation to why it is scummy

I dunno if this is true or not it might be, but its just how i play I guess, I imagine i called ThAd scum long before this however... I dont see why this makes me scum exactly its a playstyle. Lets call it null aye?

what TheAd is doing is totally different from what you are doing, he uses a wagon and tries to find scum, you think that is wrong way of doing it, but I suggested it first and don't call me out for it, yet he is scum for it? The whole 3-4-5 thing is such a minute thing to get hung up on, sadly I have seen people outside of newbie games rely on that 3-4-5 thing before, if anything it speaks to his experience level more than it does is scummy level.

Please show me where you said 'lets hunt scum who voted 3rd on a wagon whos alignment we dont know' thanks.

I take this to imply he doesn't think you as town, and imo not town usually means scum or scummy. I guess it could mean null though. But after that you never post that you think he is scum, the only time that you imply you think he is scum is WAY BACK on post 77. So since you never indicate you think he is scum, why did you feel the need to say this after he calls you null

OK, I give you that he does kind of imply im scummy, anyways I questioned it and his answer was good, don't you agree? good answer = town points, what seems to be the issue?

I don't think you called him scum.

I mean if you look at my 2nd post in my ISO i basically do, then the 3rd, exaggerating of course but i do. I call him scummy later on also.

I haven't made up anything and I am not scum. I can support anything I say with examples, which means it can be proven thus isn't made up.

I don't actually think you are scum for the record, but you have not presented a case, you repeated yourself like twice in this huge post for some reason and yes, some of this is made up, i mean of everyone in the game, how many people have posted more solid reads than me? name them, good luck.

Anyways pops is scum its lolobvious and he needs to be lynched today.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar is so unbelievably scummy why can't we get support for this lynch.

so why no vote? how come you have not been drumming up support before? whats this to do with gaining support you have not been trying?

heres whats happening obvtown beck gets sheeped by the scum and pops is one of those.

vote Sodaspirit

Looks like that's where we're headed.

Why vote soda? cos its the easy vote today hm? im super scummy but you are voting soda huh, seems good.

Hirakis point was good too...

UNVOTE: ThAdmiral
VOTE: popsofctown

And this is where my vote will stay

[Slandaar]

Anyways pops is scum its lolobvious and he needs to be lynched today.

I called pops scum too, whats your point beck?

#1621, it basically is what bv said 'you either slipped or you didn't'

[Slandaar]

You know what's fascinating about 1499? He agrees that my case on Revenus is compelling, yet suddenly votes ScreamingHawk. Perhaps scum hedging their bets by talking smack about their buddy, but not advancing the wagon?

I did huh? I do not remember this... good luck explaining.

[Slandaar]

Cognitive Dissonance != scum, its ridiculous really, both points stand on their own merits, cant answer either? call it cognitive dissonance and hey presto problem solved!

can someone lay out the case on shattered? he hasnt contributed much and is pretty delusional but I have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such

Hmm. slandaar making sense. Credit where it is due.

Shattered is delusional and isnt a bad lynch

Wait, what? You just said you "have not really seen any scummy behaviour as such". I was actually starting to feel you might be town, but that feeling has died.

OK you see, even after all this cognitive dissonance ThAd says he is considering me town but this is the absolute deciding factor, the above post. Now where is the problem?

Shattered was null so wasnt a bad lynch, does that make me go from hmmm could be town to lolscum?

no

ThAd is scum.

[Slandaar]

Lol Slandaar I think Pine is talking about me. I posted 1499.

Makes sense, it came after a couple posts about me so it seemed to refer to me, nm then...

[Slandaar]

anyways i might not be around much this weekend basically

SV or Pine is scum, probably pine.
ThAd scum
Pops scum
Soda probably scum
Funky maybe scum
Mastin meh maybe scum too

Vijay ehhh townish
Sorg not sure

Bv town
Sky town
Username/Faraday town
Beck town
TheAma town
Zel town
Zde seems town
Hiraki seems townish now
rev town I cant decide on if its slip or not but before that he was town

If I forgot you, well sorry but you are near the null category.

[Slandaar]

Cognitive dissonance is defined as saying one thing and doing another, or saying one thing and then forgetting what you said and contradicting yourself.

OK this is your definition fine, its wrong, but fine.

Explain to me where I did either. good luck.

[Slandaar]

you just accused me of admitting I was scum, so why am I town read?

I don't actually think you are scum for the record, but you have not presented a case, you repeated yourself like twice in this huge post for some reason and yes, some of this is made up, i mean of everyone in the game, how many people have posted more solid reads than me? name them, good luck.

Not reading my posts huh? interesting.

[Slandaar]

scatterbrained

Thats basically what cognitive dissonance is, it can be scummy but not when the points are talking about different posts, all my posts align themselves to make one solid case, like i said this is just ThAds way of trying to dismiss the evidence vs him.

[Slandaar]

What does posting solid reads have to do with anything?

The problem with you slandaar is your play while seeming pro-town has no bite behind it, you just keep calling people scummy, you hardly ever take a solid stance on saying somebody is town or scum

Cognitive Dissonance.

So, there you have it, if you really think it is a scum tell, heres your scum.

[Slandaar]

I've explained why I think you are scum, so are you not reading my posts? Oh but wait, you have already asked questions/defended yourself from my case on you so...

I did didn't I?

Do you still think anything you said makes me scum?

[Slandaar]

You know who can post solid reads? Scum

The problem with you slandaar is your play while seeming pro-town has no bite behind it, you just keep calling people scummy, you hardly ever take a solid stance on saying somebody is town or scum

Beck accuses me of being scum for not posting solid reads but at the same time is saying scum post solid reads.

I never said you had solid reads, you did. I asked what does that have to do with anything. I actually don't see solid reads from you, if you would care to point to where you claim you have given some.

They are there. But the point is you think town don't post solid reads and at the same time say I have not posted solid reads and im scum for not posting solid reads, now, why would you do that?

[Slandaar]

Do you still think anything you said makes me scum?

Yes

What?

[Slandaar]

eh quote fails in above post you might be able to understand it not sure...

[Slandaar]

Cognitive dissonance is defined as saying one thing and doing another, or saying one thing and then forgetting what you said and contradicting yourself.

OK this is your definition fine, its wrong, but fine.

Explain to me where I did either. good luck.

This has been done, in good detail, already. You were in fact responding to the posts in which it was demonstrated.

can you explain where the contradiction is? please show it.

Which of my points contradict each other?

Show it, or stop lieing.

[Slandaar]

There is no contradiction there.

Why are you lieing?

Have you actually read the case properly?

[Slandaar]

both points are saying : your town read on funky makes no sense

town read makes no sense -> you KNOW he is town and are assuming others would think so.

where is the contradiction pine?? do the points contradict? no, they do not.

oh ya its cos you are scum and just fabricating stuff.

[Slandaar]

@Hiraki: what do you think of rev, your read and opinion of case(s) on him?

[Slandaar]

OK, look, if i say 'someone hasnt done anything scummy'

then say not a bad lynch there is no contradiction

a bad lynch would be someone i find town, i do not and did not find SV town, so hes not a bad lynch, comprende?

So, contradiction? hm no. I did not say 'lets lynch SV' he was basically a PL, which I didnt mind too much, so, why are you trying to say i contradicted myself?

Pine is showing major cognitive dissonance here

he said the first part of the post was where i contradicted myself (the part ThAd calls cognitive dissonance)

Now hes saying its the later minor point of the post.

[Slandaar]

Well, if you are telling the truth why dont you just show where there is a contradiction?

oh wait, you can't/couldn't could you?

funny that.

Now, show the contradiction.

[Slandaar]

If they haven't done anything scummy, than saying you are fine with them lynched is a contradiction because you shouldn't be wanting to lynch somebody not doing anything scummy.

Show me where I said I wanted to lynch him.

If you are going to tunnel me this hard at least have some truth behind your points, its absolutely ridiculous.

[Slandaar]

I did. That is my last word on this for now, I will let the strength of my arguments thus far do the talking for me, and the other 20 players decide whether I have sufficiently explained myself.

You didn't, when I proved it wasn't a contradiction you threw a hissy fit.

1st post: SV is null

2nd post: SV isnt bad lynch

null = isnt bad lynch

fair enough? why are you still pressing there is a contradiction?

[Slandaar]

its such a minor ridiculous point, i mean its funny how that huge case has come down to this.

Look, 'not a bad lynch' means ok.

why is it ok?

because he hasnt posted any content and is being useless ie a PL

Never did I try to get SV lynched or say I wanted him lynched.

The contradiction is only coming from your misunderstanding of my meaning. There is no contradiction.

[Slandaar]

TheAd hasn't done anything scummy yet you want him lynched.

This is your opinion, not mine.

[Slandaar]

that was a joke post, you are seriously grasping at straws.

[Slandaar]

why didnt you show the whole post, yeah because you know it was a joke.

So what is this? why are you so hellbent on my lynch?