Open 321: Kc's FIRE and ICE: Game over.

[VisceraEyes]

AKA

/confirm

[VisceraEyes]

I'm here guys! Just in time WHEW! Scorcher here man!

Ummmmmm...

VOTE: verydark

Because I don't like his face...but I DO like his avatar...but I want it and I'm jealous...so he gotta die.

[VisceraEyes]

:O A WAGON?!?!?!?!?!111??!!

UNVOTE: verydark

*cowers*

[VisceraEyes]

I lol'd too. I was gonna try and find one to return the favor but no one's voting Cirno right now :~(

[VisceraEyes]

It's not the same....

[VisceraEyes]

Cool guys! Maybe tomorrow you'll actually hit MAFIA with your random lynching!

VOTE: VisceraEyes

WAGONWAGONWAGONWAGONWAGON

[VisceraEyes]

Heh...

UNVOTE: VisceraEyes

I kid, I kid.

[VisceraEyes]

Because people are meanie heads! X(

No, it's probably because of my avatar. It looks scummy.

[VisceraEyes]

You guys.

I'm blushing.

^^

[VisceraEyes]

No, lynch me! WEEEEEEEEEE! Morons with their random votes get town killed 99% of the time, so come on! Let's DO THIS!

My neck is appx 11" in diameter, and I'm 6'2" barefoot...let's get this rockin!

[VisceraEyes]

I never asked to be lynched. I was commenting on the fact that I was being bandwagoned. And I was trying to emulate the extremism this forum seems to condone. But take for that what you will.

[VisceraEyes]

Yes. I fail at being funny...but it was an attempt. I apologize to town if it came off as "anti-town" or "scummy" or whatever...was only pointing out that a Random Lynch on d1 and a bandwagon not even a day into the game are synonymously bad for town through irony. I see now that it was...not funny.

[VisceraEyes]

Well, I agree with the present case against Personal Idiot, plus I'm all about lynching someone who is NOT me. As such...

VOTE: PersonalIdiot04

[VisceraEyes]

You know, just to make absolutely certain there's nothing suspicious about his behavior. At all. Under any circumstances. <3

[VisceraEyes]

Gladly.

Now WHY are people bandwagoning on VE this early in the game?

Aside from the obvious 'just because', this is a valid question.

Now WHY are people bandwagoning on VE this early in the game?

What's the big deal?

UNVOTE: gbevilchaos
VOTE: PersonalIdiot04

This vote is not random.

But how do we

know

that VE is scum?

Further indication that he doesn't necessarily agree with this strategy...

You guys.

I'm blushing.

^^

Either a REALLY bad scumslip, or at least a somewhat-new player.

I don't really know what he means here, I was obviously making a joke (I have a habit of not being funny...) but he treats this as some sort of scum-claim. But it's the same logic that the bandwagonners are employing - treating my attempts at humor as indication of my alignment...which I just don't see, I'm sorry.

Now, admittedly there's not much of a "case" there, but I do get a pretty scummy feeling from the way his posts have come out so far. Now that I'm actually looking at it though, it isn't as much as I thought it was...I was skimming and was jumbling his posts with those who are bandwagonning me for no reason and that just isn't the case.

UNVOTE: PersonalIdiot

You wanna humor me and tell me exactly why your now-serious vote on me is now serious?

[VisceraEyes]

Those weren't problems...those were supporting information for my third point, the actual problem. And as I said, looking back it's not so much a problem for me, hence the unvote. Read into it what you will, I'm just trying to find scum.

[VisceraEyes]

That is correct. It seemed opportunistic to me, but he never voted on it, so it's w/e. Plenty of time yet.

[VisceraEyes]

What would you have preferred, I let you all believe that I read the whole thread when I only skimmed? I don't even get any points for my honesty?

To be honest, I didn't even really feel 'called out' when Cirno asked why I agreed with ur case...it DID warrant me going back and rereading it though, because I had only skimmed. The vote was more of a defense mechanism because of the 'unfounded' bandwagon on me, but I'm just trying to be honest with you guys. Srsly, this has gone on long enough...let me help you find scum.

[VisceraEyes]

What would you have preferred, I let you all believe that I read the whole thread when I only skimmed? I don't even get any points for my honesty?

I would have preferred that you read the whole thread and then make an informed vote. Just because

you admit you're scummy

doesn't make you not scummy.

Is it time for me to stop letting it play out yet?

Feel free to hop in at any time, especially since our progress is lacking.

Now let's back up the truth train here a bit, Mr Conductor. I never "admitted I'm scummy". I don't think my actions were scummy at all. Yes, I'm guilty of skimming the thread and making a vote, but I'm also doing other things and can't devote 100% of my attention to the thread. As such, sometimes I skim and react, then come back and explain myself if someone takes issue with it.

Now, I was able to let this go until now, but now you're putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting what I say.

[VisceraEyes]

w/e dude...waste ur time on me. You seem genuinely interested in finding scum, so I'll just let you take this as far as it gets you. I'm going to find ACTUAL scum in the meantime, and attempt to NOT waste town's time.

For the record, talking for the rest of town is genuinely considered a pretty common scum-tell too...but I'm more interested in context than I am what 'everyone else thinks is scummy'...but maybe that's because I don't have an ulterior motive....

[VisceraEyes]

@verydark
But why not gbevil, whose points I find A LOT more scummy than Cirno's...Cirno hasn't really been 'back and forth' with me...he asked me questions, I gladly responded. GB on the other hand has taken every defense I've come up with and turned it around to be even more "incriminating". Is THAT not suspicious to you?

FoS: verydark & gbevilchaos

First good leads of the game - CHECK.

[VisceraEyes]

I'l frantically flip my finger in your FACE if fate facilitates...freakout over nothing some more. You guys are ridiculous.

[VisceraEyes]

How does one "Fing" exactly....and is it just me, or is it impossible to say "Fing" without emphasizing the 'g' at the end phonetically? Food for freakin thought.

[VisceraEyes]

Dude, Johnny would've been on this VE wagon...I'm surprised you didn't find Johnny's mom there too.

-.-

gg Mafia.

[VisceraEyes]

I'm doing what I can, but right now the only thing happening is everyone voting for me...and nothing scummy about that. Pretty hard to find scum in that kind of envirionment...you know, the kind where they can just hop aboard and say 'Yeah, what he said'.

So lynch me if you wish - but don't call my lack of scumhunting damning...there's literally nothing to go on.

[VisceraEyes]

obvious mislynch is obvious. I like how no one has any REAL reason to be voting me except for gb...who has unvoted. gg maf

[VisceraEyes]

I also enjoy how everything I say is just automatically labeled as some sort of appeal.

I actually hope you guys do lynch me. Would serve you right. <3

[VisceraEyes]

In the meantime, I suggest everyone take a long hard look at iBetrayal: he hops on with less reasoning than anyone, and further refuses to participate in any discussion surrounding his vote. Obviously he's being replaced, but look long and hard at his replacement.

Also verydark appears to be trying to paint me scummy for...something...can't really figure out what...but he was decrying this wagon early and now he's onboard? Super-suspicious to me...but hey, I'm the guy with a box already made.

[VisceraEyes]

Wow...okay, so Empking is just following suit here...and I can't justifiably vote for him over anyone else who's wagonned on me for obvious reasons...

Empking why is gb obvScum?

[VisceraEyes]

I mean, it looks like a pretty standard RVS vote to me. What stood out as 'obviously scummy' about it to you?

[VisceraEyes]

So why is that more scummy than Cirno's pretty scummy smilie AVATAR? His is even ASCII-based! SCUUUUUUM!

-.-

[VisceraEyes]

I mean look at that thing...it even looks like he's got a ball-chin while he's smirking....the fact that you don't find THAT smilie scummy is......telling.

[VisceraEyes]

OOOOHHHHHHHH.....

As you were then. I'm a Leo, so I'm down with the lion.

[VisceraEyes]

I think that Confid is just pushing a Random Lynch...as made evident by the fact that he doesn't want anyone to even comment before jumping on the wagon. I've never agreed with RL, but I can't deny its utility. As such, I think he's probably town.

As far as the about-face, I explained to Cirno earlier (which drew a lot of fire on me, but w/e) that I was just skimming when I saw PI's attack on me. I think I was at L-4 or L-3 at the time...Whatever it was, I panicked and assumed that anyone who wants to attack someone with a (seemingly) baseless wagon MUST be scum trying to push a mislynch. So I voted. But then Cirno asked about it, so I felt compelled to go back and actually read the guy's posts, and found that it wasn't so much an attack at all.

[VisceraEyes]

And before you mention it, it's already been brought to my attention that skimming is considered scummy. <3

[VisceraEyes]

I think what bothers me the most about PI right NOW is that he's kinda disappeared after soft-defending me...even with heat on him from several people. The action itself isn't so scummy, but the timing of his disappearance is...disconcerting. As I've stated before, I don't really find PI all that suspicious.

I'll tell you who I find suspicious. VeryDark.

He's all about defending people who have bandwagons on them, but he hasn't posted any reasons for the few suspicions he HAS shared (namely myself and Cirno). I honestly don't care if this looks like OMGUS, the fact that he found my answering Cirno's questions 'scummy' is....silly. He's a silly-head. And I think he's also scum. I find it interesting that he didn't find any of my back and forth with gbevil so scummy, when I was genuinely getting pissed off...but thought that my rational reasoning with Cirno was suspect.

In fact:
VOTE: verydark

[VisceraEyes]

I'm scumhunting. If you can't see that, the problem is yours not mine.

@verydark
While I disagree with MJP's initial vote as well (obviously HERP), I see him as pro-town enough, especially in this game. He's asking questions that are indicative of REALLY scumhunting and while he voted for me, he was actually interested in what I had to say rather than just blindly bandwagoning. What have YOU done exactly, besides soft-defend me?

[VisceraEyes]

I defend JPop because he's the only person besides gb who appear to actually be doing any scumhunting. You've raised a couple of suspicions Emp, and a few others have asked some questions, but MJP is going further, really trying to find scum. This is VERY townie to me, and I don't mind saying so.

[VisceraEyes]

And tries to build an actual case against VE, when everything he's said thus far has been a joke. Others did this, but PersonalIdiot's rapid movement from "Why are we bandwagoning VE? We don't know for sure that he's scum." to "This joke is CLEARLY a scum slip." is abnormal. If you as a player don't like random wagons, you should be pressuring VE for a random post. There has to be an ulterior motive there.

This is good.

-------

This, however, is not. You called him scummy, and then UNvoted?

I didn't call him scummy. I said his posts come across as scummy feeling. I also find random bandwagons to be scummy feeling, yet I didn't vote for you did I? "Gives me a scummy feeling" =/= "I think they're scum"

You seem to know the difference between anti-town and scummy, so what gives? You don't know the difference between "doesn't look good to me" and "lynchworthy"?

[VisceraEyes]

As I explained earlier, and thought I had made myself perfectly clear:

When I voted for PI, I had skimmed the thread and saw his "attack" on me, and voted. Upon further inspection (rereading thoroughly) I realized that his post wasn't nearly as scummy as I thought it was, hence the unvote.

I'll keep explaining it in this way because this was the way it happened. I'm not trying to "hide" anything around this sequence of events, and I'm being entirely truthful, so my story is NOT likely to change. If you guys want to keep beating the same dead horse, by all means. All it serves to do is make you look scummy for trying to paint me scummy.

[VisceraEyes]

Don't like MediocreJPop for trying to put someone at L-1 this early in the day and then claiming he had no intention to end the day.

Don't like Empking's "quote and offer a pointless comment" strategy. It is barely more than active lurking.

Don't like how gb has to attack every little thing, for instance attacking toon fighter for offering to explain his vote.

That said, I'm not satisfied with Toon Fighter's explanation of "he was deserving of a vote", so I'm keepin my vote there.

Still don't like VE's vote and subsequent unvote, but, other than his whining, I've no problem with his play since then.

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't comment on the verydark in spite of him having a vote on him. What do you think about verydark's play?

[VisceraEyes]

@cirno
I think it's interesting how short you are with me (almost snippy) when I ask you the most basic of questions. That's nice that you don't care whether or not he has a vote on him, but I asked because you commented (directly or indirectly) on everyone ELSE who DOES have a vote on them. But by all means...continue to feel like I'm not worth sharing with. I'll just wait until someone you DO feel is worthy asks you to get the information I seek.

[VisceraEyes]

I find it helpful in some scenarios. Not too many.

[VisceraEyes]

It's my birthday be nice to me!

[VisceraEyes]

He probably did it because you rallied everyone to hunt scum, yet have done nothing to that end yourself. Maybe you could, instead of lead by rhetoric, lead by EXAMPLE and start hunting scum yourself? Just a suggestion.

[VisceraEyes]

I'm not buddying anyone VD, I'm making an observation. I know that's one of MY suspicions of you, and I've already stated suspicion of you, so I hardly think that me agreeing with someone ELSE'S suspicion of you is buddying. Nice try though, wanna give it another go?

[VisceraEyes]

And for the record,

Buddying, noted.

This was an A & B conversation...

You know the rest.

...the bolded bit is FAR closer to buddying than ANYTHING I did in my post. Just sayin...

[VisceraEyes]

lmao

<3 Cirno

K, fair enough...but I didn't say he was buddying either. I said the way he posted it could be construed as buddying. If he had put it the way YOU put it, absolutely...but that's certainly not how it came across to me.

[VisceraEyes]

Wait, in what way have I gone back to more ATEs? VD is misrepresenting me, and I was trying to clarify - how is that an ATE?

[VisceraEyes]

I'm inclined to believe that VE's playstyle is just over-the-top and emotional. Don't believe me? Check out his play style in game #320

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=18294

He flipped town, but acted much the same way he is here.

Anywhoozle, I really don't know what to make of this game...

we still haven't really heard anything from a few players

::cough:: malpasc ::cough:: and a few people are VLA. We have a hydra...or two...

I've never been more confused in a mafia game, ever.

This is the best thing VD has said all game. Finding scum is hard enough...finding SILENT scum is literally impossible without policy lynching inactives. And I hate policy lynches. I herby DEMAND more activity from those of you who are NOT playing the game...please?

[VisceraEyes]

My answers:

I bandwagonned because:

a) From the little I'd skimmed (and I don't think that is scummy in itself, any player should read the thread well) from the thread, VE seemed to me to be one of the players most deserving of a vote
b) He already had some support behind him, so, voting him would be better than voting a random player with no votes on him
c) I prefer to have my vote in a big wagon rather than isolated somewhere or not being used

Now that I've read the last few pages (where most of the interesting stuff happens, I can say this:

MJP, your posts seem good, but they are way too big and too frequent. Please concentrate your posts and don't make huge walls. On their actual content, you make a huge case against verydark, repeating yourself a couple of times, but your vote stays pressuring me, who you barely mention in your posts. Clarify this to me, please.

verydark, your post 192 is very interesting. First of all, because you just push MJP very hard because he tried to put VE at L-1. Second, because you seem to be deluded that we are still on RVS. Granted, MJP's asking for a claim wasn't very good, especially when he jumped wagons right afterwards, but your post isn't very good either. Your other posts are nothing special either, as we can see from gbevil's analysis.

gbevil seems to be doing decent posts and decent scumhunting. Nothing big to say here.

Empking seems to be trying hard to defend VE. I wonder if there is a connection between the two.

PI, I repeat the questions other players are asking, what are your opinions on the game and who seems scummiest?

malpascp, I agree that PI's post was bad, but to me it seemed like classic VI, why do you think he deserved your vote, can you elaborate on that?

Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and vote for this guy. VD can wait for another day. First of all, his ONLY...literally ONLY act in this game is to vote for me. Why? Because after a 'reread', I'm 'the most deserving of a vote'. Huh. Not any reasoning. Interestingly enough, he gives reasons as to why he COULD vote for other people, but I 'have the most support'...meaning he's not interested in lynching scum, he's interested in...lynching. That's scummy ladies and gents, and he should be our first lynch.

UNVOTE: verydark
VOTE: Toon Fighter

[VisceraEyes]

This game is a v/la and prod factory. Prod received and acknowledged.

[VisceraEyes]

I've been giving input...nothing more to add at the present time considering the last few pages have been nothing but prod dodges and v/la excuses.

[VisceraEyes]

Prod received and acknowledged.

[VisceraEyes]

Calm down...wall of text incoming...when I'm not at work. Stay tuned.

[VisceraEyes]

Okay...interesting read catching up.

Guys, regarding Reab. He could just as easily have received the Doctor role and not received the Vanilla Townie role PM...as the chances of that are fairly slim (20% by my calculations,) I would support lynching him today. But if like Klazam you guys would rather wait until he returns to lynch him, I'm okay with that too (because it is POSSIBLE that he's a doctor.)

I'm trying to wrap my head around all the replacements right now, as a few of the replacements have made me rethink my reads on the people they're replacing into. Sorry I don't have more, but this is a strange setup with a lot of mafia and I'm struggling to follow it. I'm going to reread it again and hope something jumps out at me.

[VisceraEyes]

After a readthrough of the thread, I'm absolutely and unequivocally NOT voting for Reab.

Discuss.

[VisceraEyes]

I think Empking deserves a closer look guys. His nonsense of posting no more than one line or two is doing a good job of keeping us guessing as to his reasons for his suspicions, and that's pretty much all it's doing. Agree with him or not, I don't like the way he's presenting it. It feels scummy. At first I figured it was him being guarded, trying to take in as much information as possible, but the more he posts, the more I realize it's not going to get any better.

In other news, I don't know why KrayzeeBone has a beef with me...yeah, I disappeared. But the wagon on me was retarded and based on retardation. I lost my cool over the wagon on me, and I don't like losing my cool.

[VisceraEyes]

My Reason I'm NOT Voting For Reab

Everyone is mostly voting for him based on a mechanical issue (what the role PM he received did or didn't say). After rereading his posts, they haven't seemed scummy at all to me, and so I'm willing to believe that it's all some sort of misunderstanding and allow him to reveal his role to us with his posting and content. Not to mention the fact that MJP, who he replaced into, was townier than ANYONE in the game still.

Now, the good stuff.

My Scum Reads

CSL

- Was quick to jump on the mechanical issue as indicative of Reab's alignment...too quick in my opinion. Went from a town read to a scum read in 1 post. Don't like it.

Toon Fighter

- First of all, went V/LA until AFTER the day-post. That alone wouldn't be suspicious to me, but taken with his vote on Reab and reasoning for it, I see scum trying to get a good mislynch in, and trusting indecisive town to jump onboard since he won't be changing to anyone else. He's probably the entire reason for this dumb wagon, and I'd like to see him hang for it.

Those are the only really strong reads I have so far...everyone else's posts I can see having a town motivation and I think without a lynch or two, there isn't enough info to find ALL the mafia yet. I'm comfortable with those two choices. And since my vote is already on Toon, that's where it will remain.

[VisceraEyes]

You guys are scummy as hell. Claim precedes lynch every single time as far as I know, and it looked like Reab was getting lynched. Voting for someone who calls for a claim from someone who's very obviously getting lynched is ridiculous.

UNVOTE: ToonFighter
VOTE: CSL

FoS: Klazam & ToonFighter

[VisceraEyes]

This is so glaringly obvious I'm not sure I'm reading this right. Whiskers comes in and reads the thread, and decides that there's no one obviously scummy. What this indicates to me is that Whiskers is actually reading the thread and trying to find scum...because no one has done anything overtly scummy the whole game. Whiskers then calls for a claim from Reab who is the number one candidate for lynch.

Klazam first calls his actions scummy, but does not vote.

CSL then agrees and votes.

Klazam then votes also.

Am I reading this right? No one is troubled by this sequence of events besides smargo and myself? Calling for a claim from someone who is being lynched is NOT scummy guys. It's not like he said this in the first week of the game, we're in the eleventh hour here...it's time for claim and hammer guys.

[VisceraEyes]

>:3...I find scum tend to refer to posts they've already posted and make the asker look for and therefor interpret the answers themselves. This is a very big scum-tell to me. I don't lend much importance to 'congratulating the doc' myself because someone has to make the first post, and if they comment at all about the night's happenings, they could/will probably be viewed as scummy.

[VisceraEyes]

Note, I didn't vote because the answer is very clearly IN the post you refer to, in basically those exact words.

[VisceraEyes]

I'm actually not against the quick-hammer. You guys were voting for Whiskers for retarded reasons and I just wanted the day to be over. The case against Reab was equally ridiculous, and considering I'm equally suspicious of CSL, I have my very first confirmed town in the game. Congratulations. The last to even be close to having that honor was Whiskers. Whiskers is dead. And incidentally confirmed town. Go figure.

VOTE: CSL

I can't wait for CSL to die! ^^

[VisceraEyes]

I've only read this page, and I already have a strong newbtown read on Reab.

But that could change.

newbTown read on Reab. Got it.

And then after reading the thread, my townread on Reab turns quickly into a scumread.

Vote: Reab

What?! Did you even READ MJP's posts? MJP couldn't have BEEN more town. And after reading the thread, NOW you're suspicious? I'm calling BS...again.

Reab can get wagoned up to L-1.

He smells like newbscum.

Cirno is probably town.

More tomorrow.

What happens at L-1 again? Why is that number important? Oh, right, because that's when we get a claim from the accused, as in every game of mafia I've played on this site to date. M'kay, just making sure...

I think Empking might be town.

Think we're all just waiting here for Reab to get back.

WOW...you weren't kidding about 'More tomorrow.'...what are we waiting for from Reab again? Oh, right, claim...got it.

I'm not for a deadline extension. We got 4 days.

Reab will be back Sunday, and

will be able to provide his L-1 claim

, then we go from there.

Ah, okay...so confirming just once more that we're waiting for a Reab claim. Got it.

Whiskers is rolefishing?

Unvote; Vote: Whiskers

Wait, what?! WHAT? That more people don't find this absolutely ridiculous is completely beyond me. CSL, after literally calling for a Reab claim, is voting for Whiskers based on.... CALLING FOR A REAB CLAIM!!!!!!! GHUJWJJDAKWKKDVOOAJ COME ON GUYS!!!! COME ON!!!

Best case scenario, he fakeclaims doc, you let him go, and he soaks up the nightkill.

I am not really against him claiming, but I will not join you on the wagon, because I don't believe he's scum.

In 506, CSL states the intent to force Reab claim and maybe lynch him. In 507, I state that I'm not opposed to you forcing him to claim, but I am opposed to you lynching him.

This seems pretty straightforward.

But more importantly than that, can you guys give me a reason you'd be voting him!(?) I read his ISO and your wagon-to-lynch was absolute bullshit

Bolded is a misrep. I was not forcing him to claim. You are blatantly rolefishing. You must eat rope.

CSL is taking advantage of a semantic argument to invalidate Whiskers' defense. No one can FORCE Reab to claim...but CSL's desire for a claim and intent to have him at L-1 and 'go from there' ALL IMPLIES EXACTLY WHAT WHISKERS SAID!!!!! It's not a misrepresentation, it's absolutely true. You're lynching him for something you have been doing for 2 pages.

You guys are scummy as hell. Claim precedes lynch every single time as far as I know, and it looked like Reab was getting lynched. Voting for someone who calls for a claim from someone who's very obviously getting lynched is ridiculous.

UNVOTE: ToonFighter
VOTE: CSL

FoS: Klazam & ToonFighter

Reab is not getting lynched now. Your argument is invalidated.

No, my argument was that you were lynching Reab when Whiskers made the 'damning' post...he called for a claim of someone who was being lynched. My argument is actually NOT invalidated, you're VERY mistaken about that.

And Whiskers got rung up to L-2 already. There are scum on this wagon, I believe.

Finally, something we can agree on.

To make sure you didn't forget about this game.

We're lynching Whiskers for rolefishing.

-.-

nice hammering without a claim.

-.-

I'd have unvoted if I knew that beforehand.

How convenient to say now, when Whiskers is flipped and nothing can be done about it.

I would have unvoted

if Cirno said to give her more time earlier

.

If you hadn't have hammered, we'd MIGHT still be in Day 1.

Yeah, shift that blame. It's not like you were ENTIRELY AND EXCLUSIVELY TO BLAME FOR WHISKERS EVEN BEING A CANDIDATE or anything, right?

Just to reitterate, I've voting for CSL and I urge everyone to do the same. CSL is

SCUM

.

[VisceraEyes]

Yeah...I don't know guys...Krazy suspects me, yeah...I feel like I'm expected to suspect him too....but he hasn't really struck me as so much anti-town. He DOES seem VERY opportunistic about his votes though. How do you respond to these accusations Krazy? I'm inclined to hear your defense before agreeing with a wagon on you sir.

[VisceraEyes]

What are you looking for here? A bunch of chainsaws, or an opportunity to accuse me of setting up mislynches? I don't see a point in really speculating on that since I don't really see a good reason to restrict any of them from being partners with any of the others. Scum plays as scum, with the complete lack of luster in most of these wagons, I wouldn't be surprised if they spent half of every day throwing miniature busses at each other. There's really nothing but WIFOM in that route.

You're at this point accusing of moving around wagons too much, or overextending myself, while asking me to form connections that are quite frankly overextensions. You're basically saying, "please do something scummy so I can accuse you of being scummy." In this regard I must ask you to stop tunneling.

Yup, definitely reading town on Krazy in spite of him suspecting me.

PEdit:

Reab - I also think CSL is scum for reasons I've already stated and the responses I've received haven't changed my mind in the least. In fact, they've only served to strengthen my suspicion.

[VisceraEyes]

Yeah, reab pointed this out but I feel it's worth repeating because no one seemed to notice...but CSL switched her vote from me (her 'top suspect' as far as I can tell) to TF with the only reason given as 'i like him for scum'.

Further, CSL has suspicions of other where she actually has reasons she's shared...yet her vote is on TF.

My guess? She's not interested in lynching scum...at least, she's as okay with lynching town as she is lynching scum. Her votes, all of them, have read this way to me.

WHY are you guys all so reluctant to put a vote on CSL?! She's scummy as SIN! She's most definitely (in my opinion) SCUM! DO THIS GUYS LET'S LYNCH SCUM!

VOTE CSL!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!ELEVEN!!!

[VisceraEyes]

I'm actually not against the quick-hammer. You guys were voting for Whiskers for retarded reasons and I just wanted the day to be over. The case against Reab was equally ridiculous, and considering I'm equally suspicious of CSL, I have my very first confirmed town in the game. Congratulations. The last to even be close to having that honor was Whiskers. Whiskers is dead. And incidentally confirmed town. Go figure.

VOTE: CSL

I can't wait for CSL to die! ^^

So, if we were voting for bad reasons, why didn't you point this out? Why not try to make a case to stop us from mislynching? And being attacked by someone you have a scumread on doesn't make another player town in a game with two scumteams, and it certainly doesn't confirm them as such.

This is so glaringly obvious I'm not sure I'm reading this right. Whiskers comes in and reads the thread, and decides that there's no one obviously scummy. What this indicates to me is that Whiskers is actually reading the thread and trying to find scum...because no one has done anything overtly scummy the whole game. Whiskers then calls for a claim from Reab who is the number one candidate for lynch.

Klazam first calls his actions scummy, but does not vote.

CSL then agrees and votes.

Klazam then votes also.

Am I reading this right? No one is troubled by this sequence of events besides smargo and myself? Calling for a claim from someone who is being lynched is NOT scummy guys. It's not like he said this in the first week of the game, we're in the eleventh hour here...it's time for claim and hammer guys.

Unfortunately, I then had to go and wasn't able to press the issue further, but I voiced my opinions loud and clear. This is SCUM my friend.

[VisceraEyes]

>Asking the mod to do a vote history


KJ seems to think I am scum for some undisclosed reason, but other than that seems to be the most logical person in the game.

@KJ: As one of the people requesting the vote history, are you going to analyze it or wait for other players to do so?

I think the sarcasm of the "townpoints" comment is clear and that smarg's attacks on it are either misguided or an attempt to grasp at anything that might be construed as scummy.

@David: In regards to congratulating the doctor. There is no evidence that that is consistently the behavior of scum rather than town. Like many tells used in newbie games and on EM, you are using logic that doesn't actually make any sense and only because you saw someone else use it.

Stopped reading Krazy's posts.

VE reminds of DK in that even if he is right, I instinctively shy away from anything he does. The majority of his problems with CSL are nitpicking, but CSL does seem to contradict himself with the rolefishing and middle of the wagon bits. That said, I'm not particularly suspicious of CSL.

I'll figure out whether I want to keep my vote on David next time.

In what way is my problem with CSL nitpicking? Why you soft-defending CSL?

[VisceraEyes]

Also ^5@Cirno for being the last two remaining original players in this game!

[VisceraEyes]

Oh, forgot TF too...^5 @ TF too! If I get up to like 10 games without replacing out, I'll probably keep that as a statistic on my sig lol

[VisceraEyes]

Also, I don't know who DK is...should I be offended?

[VisceraEyes]

>VE
>In what way is my problem with CSL nitpicking?
Basically, I consider nitpicking any kind of complaining about inconsequential things that don't actually logically point to a person being scum. For instance, complaining about CSL saying that hammering without a claim is bad.

>Why you soft-defending CSL?
Like I said, I attack anything I don't like regardless of who that post may be targeting. Also, I have fond memories of CSL trying to talk to players of a game he was modding and inadvertently giving things away in the process.

>Also, I don't know who DK is...should I be offended?
DK cannot be explained. He must be

experienced

. Your time will come.
You are not actually as bad as him.

What I have a problem with is the fact that CSL called out Whiskers for "role-fishing" when all he was doing was calling for a claim, which is something CSL had been doing during most of Reab's VLA...I'm not complaining about ANYONE saying that hammering without a claim is bad - which post made you think this is what I was saying?

No, my problem with CSL is her contradictory behavior. It's indicative of an agenda.

[VisceraEyes]

Just so we're clear. My quote-wall of CSL was more like 'My thoughts while reading her ISO' than an actual case. I wasn't trying to indicate that all the quotes I posted were scummy, and I apologize if that's how it came across. I only find CSL's behavior surrounding Whiskers' lynch and her explanations of said behavior since. It's all been scummy as hell to me.

[VisceraEyes]

CSL is getting more and more scum-points in my book. Randomly changing votes, crappy posts, repeatedly stating Krazy as town. I'd prefer to see (him~? her?) lynched and then go to Krazy, as I see CSL as more likely scum at the moment.

unvote, vote: CSL

In what way does this post seem enthusiastic to you? It seems like he's just more convinced that CSL is scum than he is you are...how is that 'way too enthusiastic'? And how does the fact that we're on the same wagon 'connect' us in any way? If you want to fabricate some kind of connection, at least back it up with some kind of evidence.

[VisceraEyes]

KJ, you're on the CSL wagon. Does your FoS of Krazy indicate that you think he might be CSL's partner? Or do you think they're on opposing factions?

[VisceraEyes]

Pretty sure CSL is at L-2...the VC is like 4 posts above...

[VisceraEyes]

Reab, presently I'm starting to grow more suspicious of Krazy because of the perceived attempt to derail the CSL wagon using misrepresentation and misinformation. Obviously they could be simple mistakes, but I'm a little more wary of him, admittedly, because he's suspicious of me...the only person I can really trust right now.

[VisceraEyes]

There is a fine distinction between your vote for me and CSL's vote for you.

Magnitudes of difference between these two. Bitch about that metaphor if you want, it's the truth.

So which is it? Is there a fine distinction or are there magnitudes of difference? Because there's at least ONE magnitude of difference between THOSE two.

Judging from how he's been soft-defending CSL while simultaneously discrediting TF's defense of himself, I'd say we've got our first scum-team in CSL and Krazy. Obviously this will change if CSL doesn't flip scum (if that's even possible...I don't see how) but I'm pretty confident about this. CSL and Krazy are scum. Probably together.

[VisceraEyes]

Yeah, I'd like to continue playing.

[VisceraEyes]

I would but I don't believe you're Scum. At all..

DX, why are you so certain that CSL is NOT scum? I'm almost sure she IS, so your certainty is...troubling.

[VisceraEyes]

Yes, I'm put off by the meta defense. DX, what about CSL's scummy-as-hell behavior surrounding the Whiskers lynch? No comment on any of that?

[VisceraEyes]

Nope. And things aren't as they appear.

What in the hell does this even mean? Tell me why you don't think that shit is suspicious! I've told you why I think it IS suspicious, and you just going "Nope" is ALSO suspicious as hell, you realize this yes?

[VisceraEyes]

You're A) assuming CSL's lynch is NOT going to happen based on everyone being so stupid as to 'trust you on this' and that B) you're going to automatically live the night.

David is scum. After CSL is lynched, we'll know who her buddy is. Let's do this guys. Stop 'playing chicken with the hammer'.

[VisceraEyes]

But that STILL doesn't confirm CSL as town. For example, what if you protected a member of the opposing faction's scum team and they attempted to kill her? I like that you're effectively making yourself useless to us as a medic trying to protect CSL from lynch, but NONE of what you're saying confirms CSL as town.

[VisceraEyes]

In spite of scummy behavior. You're not willing to even consider the possibility because you think you successfully blocked a night-kill of that person, in SPITE of behavior that very clearly points out someone as scum. Knowing there are two factions in play.

Very good then. Enjoy your last day on earth. I'm not going to try and pressure you to hammer CSL because it would only hasten your demise having claimed.

Everyone else needs to take a long look at the events of today and ask themselves if CSL is HONESTLY playing with town's best interest in mind.

[VisceraEyes]

Yeah, the post about me from Reab makes zero sense, but judging from his d1 shenannies, it falls in line my placing him squarely in the 'newb' category. I'm not convinced he's scum as yet, but I DON'T like how he OPENS the post stating that he's suspicious of someone who's got a wagon going on them already, yet votes for me...based on nonsense.

Watching Reab VERY closely, but I'm ISO'ing a couple of people right now and I'll be back with my thoughts

At present (before rereading) my townlist is DX, KJ, and Krazy. Everyone I didn't mention I'm either suspicious of or haven't felt warm and fuzzy about from the beginning of the game. I'm also inclined to believe at this point that Klazam is town, in spite of decrying his actions regarding Whiskers d1...his behavior hasn't been scummy since then, and while he never really answered my suspicions (he went V/LA, IIRC,) his actions so far today have rang town to me.

[VisceraEyes]

Spoiler: Krazy's Greatest Hits

I can understand that people vote me, I'm not being very active, I'm on vacation and usually away from home and with very limited internet access, and that is making me difficult to stay active in this game. The game is also moving extremely slowly and with a lot of replacements, so it's difficult to catch on on the action, since so little is happening (a bit confusing, but I think you can understand).

Actually, I don't really understand. The pace of the game should make it easier to stay up to date on the action or the lack thereof, scumplaining about your own lurkiness and deflecting blame doesn't really help you.

In my experience

(and this game confirms it) lurkers usually get caught

and voted.

Hmm. Despite how ridiculous the italicized comment is, your argument even as you seemed to intend it doesn't actually make you any less scummy. A) Even if you did believe lurking is not optimal play now, that does not mean you thought so for the last few weeks when it was a lot easier with the wagons on VE and after that bouncing around some other people, B) There's no reason to think you were playing optimally even if you did think that, C) You're wrong either way, lurking works a lot of the time, and D) this is another post where you scumplain about the wagon on you, of which your last posts seem to be 3(scumplaining):1(accusing Reab). Take a page out of VE's playbook here?

God, I'd forgotten how slow this game is moving -.-

Nice choice to complain about it instead of saying anything interesting.


Wagon on Toon Fighter is good wagon, although my current inclination is that the wagon on VE is still a better wagon.

No, said "VT" because i didnt want to ask what a VT is, because you would have misinterpreted it :/ NEED TO GO!

That is a totally unsatisfactory answer to your question, Klazam, (and your question itself is one I might have asked myself). Not sure why you accept this answer.

On the other hand though, I had a townread on MediocreJPop, which either means MediocreJPop was much better at appearing town than either the first person in that slot or the current one, I'm still inclined to say that Ceab is more likely to be derping town than scumslipping.

But this thing where Reab doesn't even ask whether he's claiming "voteless townie" or "vengeful townie" is extremely alarming, in more than just a scum-slip kind of way. Even if telling the truth, that means Reab is not asking vital questions that interfere with his capacity to understand what people are saying in the game. Honestly, not asking whether it's Voteless Townie or Vengeful Townie because he's afraid it will be "misinterpreted" might actually be scummier than the apparent slip.

Gonna have to process this one a bit more.

After a readthrough of the thread, I'm absolutely and unequivocally NOT voting for Reab.

Discuss.

I think Empking deserves a closer look guys. His nonsense of posting no more than one line or two is doing a good job of keeping us guessing as to his reasons for his suspicions, and that's pretty much all it's doing. Agree with him or not, I don't like the way he's presenting it. It feels scummy.

You never explained why you are "absolutely and unequivocally NOT voting for Reab" but now you're saying Empking is scum for doing almost exactly what you did in regard to Reab.

And I agree that he could have scumhunted between his v/las.

I did not say that, quite the opposite, actually. In any case, did you seriously just ask me to explain why I find his post insincere? I suppose that would be due to a lack of sincerity. Trying awfully hard to poison the well here, aren't you?

As for you, 1) do you actually think TF is town? 2) why did you choose David over Klazam, if both seem to be attacking TF for scummy reasons fypov?

How exactly was my vote on VE opportunistic? That makes no sense to me.

For the other two, I can sort of see where kj is coming from, but his accusations remain unfounded. Before I made the vote on Reab, the game was seriously stalling, almost entirely because the wagons were so spread out so that no meaningful pressure could be applied to any player and votes themselves began to have no meaning. VE pretty much just ignored my push on him, and the lack of town support on him suggested it was time to look for one of the other three scum. CSL can choose to say that it's scummy to join a growing wagon but that doesn't make it true; sitting on a dead wagon can be just an excuse not to contribute to the rest of the game and pushes the game into a stall. Although VE was my top scum candidate at that point, it made more sense to get some momentum into the game, and so I voted for Reab. But, I wasn't really satisfied with that vote, for reasons I have already explained. When Whiskers appeared to be rolefishing in a way I took to be scummy, I had no problem moving to a better wagon. The weak vote there is the one on Reab, and I perhaps can see why including it as part of a pattern can make my votes look suspicious.

Basically, I can see how kj, as town, would get that impression, but it is the wrong one to make. I never shared the certainty that others expressed that kj or his predecessor PI were scum, and of the three people on my wagon, he's the one I see as most likely to be town. I was leaning scum on warriormode, and CSL I am having a hard time reading, but mostly think that the wagon on me is misdirected townies (due to an incorrect meta read of the situation and ignoring the game state at time of my votes) following desperate scum in TF.

TF's strategy of OMGUSing and then going into lurk mode until the wagon is off him seems to be working.

TF is scum, and I think there's two or three scum between VE (not going to repeat this), Cirno (because of his trying to derail the TF wagon today), CSL (because of warriormode), and Klazam (but apparently I'm the only one that thought ConfidAnon was scummy). That's five players and there's four scum, but I will have to figure out which one is town later as I would much rather lynch TF today than any of the others. Reab I'm still torn on but I've come to regret my vote on yesterday, and am now starting to lean likely town now that the "VT" thing seems like a legitimate mistake. Everyone else is town.

What are you looking for here? A bunch of chainsaws, or an opportunity to accuse me of setting up mislynches? I don't see a point in really speculating on that since I don't really see a good reason to restrict any of them from being partners with any of the others. Scum plays as scum, with the complete lack of luster in most of these wagons, I wouldn't be surprised if they spent half of every day throwing miniature busses at each other. There's really nothing but WIFOM in that route.

You're at this point accusing of moving around wagons too much, or overextending myself, while asking me to form connections that are quite frankly overextensions. You're basically saying, "please do something scummy so I can accuse you of being scummy." In this regard I must ask you to stop tunneling.

Also, you seem to have forgotten the rest of my post. What about the difference between L-3 and the L-1 that you said? One of the reasons to attack me was gone, and you just skipped it.

I don't even know what to say about the L-3/L-1 thing, I was posting from my phone, thought I remembered the vote progression but apparently I had forgotten that you were the L-3 vote. So I derped. What do you want to make of it?

I didn't vote you because you hopped on my wagon, I voted a player that I thought was suspicious after I read Empking's list and your ISO. I just mentioned the part about you hopping my wagon because I thought (and think) it was opportunistic and unjustified, NOT because the wagon was on ME. Also, your "quote" was very selective, you should quote the whole post to let the rest of the players decide better whether to vote me or not. [My vote on you] was as much of an OMGUSing as was CSL's (that means, no OMGUS) (and I believe [CSL's vote] was a vote out of desperation, and I just called you on that to see what your response would be). Also,

If you think my vote on you was OMGUS, you have to believe CSL's vote was OMGUS as well.

Also, after I voted you, you came back at me much stronger. Isn't that some sort of OMGUS as well? Reaffirming your vote on me after I voted you?

No, you omgusing me and me recognizing this for what is does not in turn also become an omgus.

There is a fine distinction between your vote for me and CSL's vote for you.

In CSL's case, CSL is simply trying to get a lynch on someone other than himself. This is desperate, but not inherently scummy, even if it is pretty weak town play.

Your vote for me, on the other hand, seemed not so much to get a lynch on someone other than yourself so much as it was to make the wagon on you look unappealing. In essence, it seemed like the primary purpose of it was to avoid letting a wagon on you develop. This strikes me as fundamentally scummy, and in essence, scummier than CSL's vote of desperation.

He's A) Not afraid to give his opinions. B) Unapologetic in his suspicions, and C) VERY logical. This is a trifecta of townitude. He's on my townlist. This was YOUR idea my guy. The only thing I don't like about his posting style is his certainty in his reads. Generally this is a good thing, but he's obviously (to me) mistaken at least where I'm concerned, so he could be mistaken in his other reads. But don't tell him that, or you're probably scum.

[VisceraEyes]

Reab, could you maybe, I don't know...explain why you're suspicious of me? I couldn't help but notice you haven't mentioned a single suspicious thing I've done, but I'm like the only thing on your mind right now.

[VisceraEyes]

Seems silly to me, but ur still town to me bro

Anyway, I'm all about a TF lynch as he's totally NOT on my town list. So.

VOTE: Toon Fighter

[VisceraEyes]

Thx for the presumed save DX, I can't imagine Ice forgot to submit a kill after x+3 (where x is a number too ridiculous for me to remember this early) days of night. Be that as it may, I'm not sold on a KJ lynch. His self-vote, while strange, isn't enough to mark him as mafia to me. *shrug*

[VisceraEyes]

You know what's funnier than 3 mislynches in a row?

4.

Okay...I was willing to overlook the self-vote 'trap'...but AtE's on top are just...

KJ, can you explain why you expect anyone to believe that you're town after that?

[VisceraEyes]

That doesn't change the fact that you're appealing to our fear of another mislynch sir, whether you were trying to convince us now or laugh at us later.

Either way, I don't like it. I'm willing to hold off on voting you for now, in the name of not ending the day 12 hours after it began, but I'm watching your posts very closely KJ.

[VisceraEyes]

Klazam is concise.

[VisceraEyes]

Hey, I've been a lot better ass. I get all paranoid at the beginning of games. Also, when I started this game I was new to the site, so there was a fair amount of nerves involved. That seems SO LONG AGO.

[VisceraEyes]

Told ya the scum would jump at me

I bet Krazy's team killed smarg for this exact play right here, "Oh look smarg died, so KJ is scum!

"

It's not really a prediction when you were my top suspect and my vote at the end of yesterday, kj, nice attempt to poison the well though.

THIS. I've reread d3, and Krazy was very obviously suspicious of KJ all day. Pushed for his lynch right up to the lynch of TF. He HAD to know that Krazy would instavote him, and the fact that he opens with a 'gambit' to 'trap' scum who would be 'eager to quicklynch' seems convenient. And then what? He even inserts his own

WIFOM

!

My guess is that HIS team killed smarg with this particular play in mind. That they killed smargo with the intention to trap Krazy SPECIFICALLY, based wholly on this interaction. I could be way off, but this whole situation is WAY too convenient.

I'm confident enough to...
VOTE: killerjester
...to death.

[VisceraEyes]

Did you literally just unvote someone and in the same line say 'probably ice mafia'? Barely a word between them?

[VisceraEyes]

UNVOTE: killerjester

And I'll just leave it at that for now.

[VisceraEyes]

Reab, you don't know that. What you meant to say is KJ is PROBABLY mafia, and Krazy is PROBABLY mafia too. You can't be sure that either one of them are Mafia, unless your one of their scumbuddies...which since you unvoted KJ (and seemed to know which faction he was) leads me to believe that's the case.

VOTE: Reab

If he flips mafia, I'd like to take a VERY close look at KJ everyone. Krazy is seeming town to me, I don't know why everyone seems to think he's scum.

[VisceraEyes]

...I don't know what you just said. But here's hoping Reab is scum.

[VisceraEyes]

No one's right about me being scum, because I'm not scum. You guys are ridiculous.

[VisceraEyes]

I actually had my money on YOU Krazy and DX. XD. Strangeness.

[VisceraEyes]

Oh there's only seven left. LMAO. Well, then it makes PERFECT sense that you're scum. I needz moar Reab flipz.

[VisceraEyes]

David should absolutely NOT save scum. Quit being ridiculous Klazam.

[VisceraEyes]

There's no way DavidX is saving you.

THIS. If he does, I'll have serious doubts about his virility.

[VisceraEyes]

Yeah, except for one thing: I'm town. So nice work sir.

[VisceraEyes]

Yes, let's. Let's look at how he was the FIRST to call out Reab for his retarded unvote of KJ, and how VE VOTED for Reab (his lolPartner) when there was a very REAL possibility of lynching killerjester. Let's look at these things and laugh together at Klazam for his nonsense.

[VisceraEyes]

I thought there were 4 town left. *shrug* Don't know what else to say about it. When you gave your townlist, I gave mine, THEN went back and looked at the playerlist and realized I was one heavy.

[VisceraEyes]

Hey yeah! He should be modkilled!.....hey wait a minute....

[VisceraEyes]

omg I peed a little. Actually a lot.

[VisceraEyes]

The thing is, I agree that he was alluding to the fact that he's on a 2 man scum team, but nothing in his quotes do I see evidence of him referencing that he was NOT Reab's partner, OR that he WAS Reab's partner. Even if he was talking about being on Reab's team he would STILL say 'us' even if Reab was dead in that context, because both team members will win if one wins.

And in fact, gambiting is TOTALLY part of KJ's town meta.

VOTE: Klazam

[VisceraEyes]

Klazam: I was quick to vote you because between myself and DX, there can only be ONE townie left, meaning you can't BOTH be town. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you were both on the same scum team though. Be that as it may, meta swings my vote to you.

I'm guessing you and the other team both tried to off the doc who's pretty much confirmed at this point.

[VisceraEyes]

UNVOTE: Klazam

Maybe the other mafia believed your 'gambit' and thought you were town. Either way, I have no idea what REALLY happened last night, you asked me what I thought happened and I told you.

Honestly, I'm not sure which of you is lying, but the possibility exists that you're both lying and both scum, so I feel more comfortable voting you because in the event that one of you is lying, I think it's you and not KJ. If you're both lying and both scum, one of Cirno or Krazy is town.

But come to think about it, I've been okay with a Cirno lynch for some time. Maybe there's a reason for that.

For the record, I'm not taking ANYTHING you reference from 'when you claimed scum' seriously as far as what happened during the night...quit trying to defend yourself using your 'gambit' as evidence...if you're telling the truth and you're town, you were LYING when you said you were scum. If you're gambiting scum, my money is on the Ice team because as you said, you wouldn't have outted yourself as Reab's partner.

My money is on Cirno because I've been getting townie vibes from Krazy all game which, while possibly fabricated, is a whole lot better than the NULL vibes I've been getting from Cirno.

[VisceraEyes]

I'm responding to Krazy's conclusion.

A) I'm dancing around Cirno and Klazam because we're in endgame no matter how you slice this lynch. Whether I'm Ice, Fire or Town, this lynch could end the game. Aside from me, who you seem pretty sure about, do we have ANY idea who the scum are WITHOUT my flip for information? Me either...but I have a pretty good idea.

Cirno

B) I've had a tenuous scum-read on Klazam dating back to d1 as well, if you'll recall it was for the same reason I was so sure CSL was scum...which turned out to be a mistake. So I shut up about Klazam, and in the spirit of transparency, yes...it was because I didn't want to draw attention to myself for fear of being lynched. But I've had my eye on Klazam the whole game, whether I've listed him as town or not.

C) WIFOM. I'm not scum, don't use circumstantial conjecture as evidence against me. I didn't die, the doc saved me, there was only one kill. THOSE are the facts. I didn't 'play up' the doc save, I mentioned it because it involved me. If you wanna talk WIFOM, I don't feel like scum would have no-killed EVER at ANY point in this game because of how many townies we have been lynching and how many scum the night-kills have NOT been killing. It's my belief that I WAS saved the night Smarg died because Ice Mafia and Fire Mafia were BOTH scum-hunting that night and they both picked the wrong targets.

D) You're right about this.

E) Negative. I'm town. My play differs from yours. Accept that and find actual scum.

This guy seems cold enough for me...
VOTE: Cirno

[VisceraEyes]

My support is already on Cirno. My vote is all I can offer.

[VisceraEyes]

Is his ridiculous 'gambit' what you're calling 'legitimately cautious'? My guess is KLAZAM is fire scum, I don't even know WHY you think I am. I can see a Cirno/Krazy team for sure.

[VisceraEyes]

I agree - David's input is important as semi-confirmed town at this point.

[VisceraEyes]

KJ, you're asking people not to sheep DX and sheep you instead. Stop calling it what it isn't. I for one want DX's opinion because he's semi-confirmed...not because I think he knows better who are scum than me. You've been dominating discussions today along with Krazy, and I'd like to hear DX's opinion on the happenings so far today. The veiled attack on our insecurity has been noted though.

[VisceraEyes]

UNVOTE: Cirno
VOTE: Krazy

Thank you, that is all.

[VisceraEyes]

Yes yes, sorry. My bad. I prefer a Krazy or Cirno lynch for my part. DX, what's your take on the KJ vs Krazy debate that rages? They're arguing from what appears to be separate factions, that's all I see though. Not who is what faction, or whether one is town or not. I believe Krazy to be on the Ice team however, because of how sure he sounds that I'M from the Ice team. It stinks.

[VisceraEyes]

But you're not sure I'm scum, you suspect that I'm scum.

[VisceraEyes]

And for that matter, you can only SUSPECT that I'm not partners with Reab too...your whole nonsense 'case' against me is WIFOM, and you know it.

[VisceraEyes]

I don't know if you're aware of my meta, but town or scum, I appeal to emotion. It's a failing...and I'm working on it. Generally, it just takes me getting used to the new players. I think I do it mostly to FORCE people to look harder at my posts...but either way, this is the only real point you have against me.

I'm not downplaying anything, either. Your whole case is 'He wouldn't have done this' 'He could have done that' 'He MIGHT have nightkilled if' 'There's scum motivation if you look at it THIS way'. All piled on top of your only real point, that I appealed to emotion on d1. And I'm not saying I could or couldn't be partners with Reab. What I'm saying is that you're not SURE of anything, and asserting that you're sure of something (especially in this open setup with no investigative roles) is fallacious and, as far as I'm concerned, scummy as hell.

[VisceraEyes]

Why would I be mad?

[VisceraEyes]

This is ridiculous. Guys, I'm TOWN, so all this arguing is a waste of time. Can't you see that? This is EXACTLY what they want!

[VisceraEyes]

Krazy is scum. Everyone should vote for Krazy to die because he's Ice Mafia and he's gotta DIE!!!!

[VisceraEyes]

VE is town, and is being set up by Ice-scum to secure a victory THIS DAY. Don't listen to his LIES!!

[VisceraEyes]

That's....actually not a lie.

BUT IT'S MISLEADING!!!

[VisceraEyes]

I'm not allowed to add a little dramatics to an already dramatic situation?

It's obvious Krazy is attempting to manipulate the facts to suit his conclusion. I'm making light of that obviousness. Give me a break bro.

[VisceraEyes]

Define define. By break I meant don't buy into Krazy's nonsense based on my attempt at humor.

[VisceraEyes]

I'm not scum, and as long as that's the general consensus in town, I'm not cooperating either. Krazy is scum, a vote for Krazy is a vote for town victory.

[VisceraEyes]

I mean, I'll make the big post. I'll make a big fucking case that shows you EXACTLY why Krazy is scum. But EVERYONE better then immediately vote for him to die because I'm seriously sick of his bs. I'm town, and it doesn't matter what his read is or how long he's had it, I've been town the entire game.

....Later. Right now, I work.

[VisceraEyes]

Okay, I went back and reread, and aside from his absolute assurance that I'm scum, which is mistaken, there's nothing even remotely suspicious. I could argue that he opportunistically jumped on bandwagons, but in all reality, he's suspected me from d1 and hasn't deviated from that mindset in his actions OR votes. Any other votes he's cast have been on people he genuinely also suspected of being scum.

Therefor - I stand by my initial read...that Krazy is just way misguided town.

UNVOTE: Krazy

Raise your hand if you didn't see this post coming.

Who then is scum? Right now I'm looking at interactions between the active members of the game. The trouble is that EVERYONE in the game, aside from DX, has voiced pretty much absolute certainty that I'm scum, which is troubling obviously. The VAST majority of the discussion has revolved around one of two topics: the likelihood that I, assuming Fire Mafia, would bus my 'mate' Reab, and the likelihood that I, assuming Ice Mafia, and my 'mate' of whomever would no-kill on the night that DX presumably saved me.

The most important thing I think we're overlooking here is, incidentally, the most simple. I'm town. I've been wrong on my reads, as we all have, but because of my scummy play, I've been kept alive PRIMARILY because I'm a great lynch target. Look at the facts. Everyone in the game...literally everyone I think...has voiced suspicion of me at one point or another. Krazy, in particular, has had me as his #1 suspect since d1. Yet I keep not dying. How is that SUPPOSED to look? I think scum are playing an exceptionally good game this game...mainly because no matter WHO'S behind the curtain, a scum victory APPEARS inevitable.

Now, I don't expect this to sway ANYONE, because as I've said, scum are playing a GREAT game this game and they have town allies like Krazy and myself. Krazy because of his deep-rooted suspicion of me, and myself for my exceptionally scummy (apparently..I still don't see it) play.

This means that our 3 scum are Cirno, KJ and Klazam. As for who's on what team, I think that Klazam is Fire Mafia and Cirno and KJ are Ice.

And finally,

VOTE: KJ but will vote Cirno also when it comes down to it. Voting Klazam, imo, will result in Ice Victory.

[VisceraEyes]

UNVOTE: KJ
VOTE: Cirno

That's L-1 ladies. Klazam, please sheep the confirmed town please.

[VisceraEyes]

/bow Krazy

I accept. Although I prefer to think of it as 'everyone wins'...call me an optimist.

[VisceraEyes]

Isn't it amazing? I was like 'Um...no effing way did Klazam just do that' because of the cross-kill. Then KJ did it. Apparently we both believed him. lol

[VisceraEyes]

VOTE: No Lynch
VOTE: Happily Ever After

This will go in my personal docket as a win, I don't care what you guys say.

[VisceraEyes]

YAY GG GUYS!!! WOOOOO! MY SECOND GAME ON THIS SITE IS NOW OFFICIALLY OVER!!!

[VisceraEyes]

Hindsight's 20/20.