Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[4nxi3ty]

IIoA: Think about your last will, particularly at night. It's really, really important that votes go to townies.

Why do you feel it was necessary to state the obvious?

vote: fishy

[4nxi3ty]

IIoA: Think about your last will, particularly at night. It's really, really important that votes go to townies.

Why do you feel it was necessary to state the obvious?

vote: fishy

Why not? People are lazy, and some of them will forget their wills need maintenance at some point. Just because something's obvious doesn't mean people will remember it.

fair enough.

Alright, first thing you guys need to do is fix your wills and put me as your first option. Then, I'm going to powerlynch someone, my scumteam will kill one of you, and then we'll repeat the process.
Sound good?

i'll take this deal, who do you suggest we powerlynch?

as for last person in my will, alice

[4nxi3ty]

unvote, vote: Lastsurvivor

[4nxi3ty]

I think malee came off worse from her interaction with nacho. She did feel jumpy to me; not so much the vote, more so the actual responses.

unvote,vote: malee

[4nxi3ty]

Malee's not giving me warm fuzzy towny feelings with this mess of a case on Nacho.

How do you feel about DDD's case?

[4nxi3ty]

town vibes from the tone in his posts

[4nxi3ty]

yep, your points against SA are a bit of an overstatement in my eyes. Had similar feelings about your case against rhinox though I think it comes from a more confirmationbias shootfirst playstyle than a scum mindest.

[4nxi3ty]

@everyone; Whats everyones thoughts on DDD, it just occurred to me that he is in this game, and he usually isnt this inactive is he? The posts he has made have been rather blah, too.

I could easily see scum!Danny playing in a way not to stand out, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see him play that way as town. Basically I want to hear what his stance is now that we're a little further in the game.

[4nxi3ty]

Does it make sense for scum-malee to push a case based on nacho voting vincent if she knew nacho didn't actually vote vincent?

...malee was voting nacho for skimming and it never really got to the point of pushing for lynch.

[4nxi3ty]

Can't say I'm really interested in a Malee wagon right now since I think the fundamental point she made was a sound one about Nacho.

Dislike Rhinox becuase of the very soft way he's been playing. There's absolutely no conviction in the arguments he was making; his "good point" from LS wasn't actually a good point and it was just the first i a set of panders towards LS that he mde.

making a good point or agreeing with a mediocre point doesn't indicate much in terms of alighnment; though I do agree that Rhinox has been playing a reactive game instead of proactive. Still haven't seen anything from Malee that makes me want to change my vote.

[4nxi3ty]

alright give me a sec to work through some stuff about malee, funkybike, rhinox, and the malee wagon.

the funkybike wagon will probably stay an underground movement for at least one page.

[4nxi3ty]

well there is plenty of time left in the day to figure out if malee's replacement is scummy, don't really have anything else to add to what has already been said.

funkybike's reads felt a little off, however, I don't see the scum motivation for not voting. I would expect scum to place a vote on someone they called scum to avoid getting called out.

I need to think more on rhinox.

fishy's take on malee is good imo.

vincent's malee vote and reasoning looked good as well, though his comments about hiplop didn't quite sit right with me.

I'm conflicted about lastsurvivor. some of his posting I find are exceedingly townish, others not so much

The person on the malee wagon that bothered me the most was alicewondering:

Nacho makes an excellent point on funky. Also Kortul. Consider me persuaded, though I'll keep my vote on Malee for now. I'd probably be willing to switch to funky whenever

This feels like attempt to secure a place on the next biggest wagon when the malee wagon dies.

unvote, vote: Alicewondering

[4nxi3ty]

I'm conflicted about lastsurvivor. some of his posting I find are exceedingly townish, others not so much

[4nxi3ty]

I'm fairly comfortable with alice's recent reactions.

Discussion topic(anybody is welcome to respond, the more the better):
what is the likelihood of scum buddyingup to town given the game mechanic?
or is it more likely for scum to avoid buddying cause it would be too suspicious?

unvote, vote: Rhinox

inb4"OMG He Voted Without Providing An EXPLANATION"

also funkybike is probly town "0.o but alot people think he is scum... and SA just said you two were obvscumbuddies..."

[4nxi3ty]

Also, lampshading (warning tvtropes link may waste hours of your valuable time) the fact that you BW hopped doesn't really make it any less bad.

I didn't really think that was a BW hop since hip is the only person voting him, more of a hop off of the alicewagon. You are correct though, if that was a scummy hop me calling attention to it wouldnt make it less scummy. Was trying to emphasize that I don't want to explain certain things at this juncture, I'll wait until the information is the most useful or have the greastest effect.

[4nxi3ty]

4n, nothing to say to my take on your ISO?

Should I have said something?

If the answer is 'yes because I want a better read of you' - than I would say 'I don't need you to have a better read this early; I'm more concerned about getting reads through reactions than building a clearcut case of explanations'

If the answer is 'no it doesn't really matter cause your inability to provide a defense proves that my points are valid and you are in fact scum' - than I would 'ask you to take a step back from the habit known as confirmation bias'

[4nxi3ty]

DDD, you have left your vote on nacho for being on cruise control yet you haven't really pressured any of his recent posts or actions...?

[4nxi3ty]

So... you . . . Don't defend yourself ever in a mafia game or...?

don't be ridiculous, I wouldn't be playing the game if I never had to defend myself. Just not a priority of mine to dispel every accusation thrown at me, especially when that person already has it cemented into their head that me and funkybile are scum.

---

DDD, amishtell is when.someone comments on their predecessor without being asked to, right?
That could be the case though alice did ask the replacement to post their reads; so I could see theo simply responding to that request.

would like to see more interactions from theomoaner before jumping to any conclusion.

---

I think rhinox was definitely portraying hiplop's actions as scummier than what actually happened. Also got the vibe that rhinox was buddyingup to me earlier. And there was something about his 1v1 with last that bugged me that I can't quite remember, nothing to do with pandering though.

For now my vote stays on rhinox.

[4nxi3ty]

ive only skimmed ls's and fishy's case on alice yet i still got townvibes from some of alice's earlier reactions; an alice doesn't really appeal to me.

while i agree that rhinox vs. hiplop shouldnt be our sole focus, i dont think it was townvtown.

rhinox's attack read more like scum taking little things from hiplop's posts and turning it into a big deal than town with poor reasoning.

[4nxi3ty]

@LS. ive already explained a little bit earlier:

Also got the vibe that rhinox was buddyingup to me earlier. And there was something about his 1v1 with last that bugged me that I can't quite remember, nothing to do with pandering though.

may go into it more later when i have time to reread, might just move onto whats currently happening in the game.

[4nxi3ty]

okay I took a look at the cases agains alice and don't find them very compelling, definitely nothing lynchworthy imo.

The only thing that struck me as odd was the "loldefense" followed up by "ls points are vaild". Alice, which specific points were valid?

@Fishy, how does funkybike's vote affect your read of alice?

[4nxi3ty]

@4n: You have said that funky is probably town. Why?

I get a lazytown vibe from him, not a panickedlurkerscum vibe. And his thought process with nacho seemed reasonable.

Unvote, Vote: Lastsurvivor
You have been pushing people to provide content but you haven't been producing it much yourself. Instead, you've been riding a Malee vote, but that has been riding for oh so long now and it's time to shit or get off the pot. Recent posts have not been helping.

I've been mulling over this for some time:Immediately after this post LS decided to ISO some people and than later came up with a case on funky and alice, looks like he was worried he wasn't providing enough content.

On one hand LS has been pressuring a lot of people to explain themselves but on the other he has been overstating the scumminess of others. It has gotten to the point where I feel he is just been trying to get a mislynch going on multiple people while masking his actions as pro-town by asking a lot of questions.

I am comfortable with a Rhinox, LS, or Theo lynch more so rhinox and ls.

malee was leaning scum, theo without the amishedtell is leaning town so it would be closer to an info. lynch in my book.

[4nxi3ty]

Can you expand on this and explain exactly which posts gave you that vibe?

pretty much all of his post show that distinction.

. Please rank bike, alice, and moan in scumminess

alice - definitely town
bike - probably town
moan - could be scum

With about two days left we now have two competing wagons

unvote,vote: theomoaner

[4nxi3ty]

unvote, vote: Lastsurvivor

[4nxi3ty]

DDD, if you think asking for the last person in a person's will is "useless information," then why did you ask the question in the first place?

oooh good point

Rhinox, do you always BS your way through RVS like you are now? Or is this just how you play your scum games? (srs question)

Most of your "scumhunting" so far has been related to DDD. By that, I mean deflecting his question back to him and this post above. What do you think of DDD, Rhinox?

DDD, good answer.

- really tries to paint rhinox as scum here yet:

UNVOTE: Malee
VOTE: Rhinox

waits for fishy to place a vote before placing his; Also unvotes after fishy.

moves on to SA(no longer following fishy's tail, I believe fishy mentioned something about LS following him before this):

@
VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

Mainly because of the "you seem on edge" accusation he threw out towards fish, and the lack of justification.
I don't like how he asked for Rhinox's votes either. Seems like he was trying to manipulate what he thought was a frustrated Rhino.

A thing I noticed with SA at first is that

he's talking about a whole lotta nothing.

Which is what I pointed out in my original post and

his floppy reasoning

with the fishy attack. His last post definitely has that as well. If you look at that big paragraph, it's a bunch of

fence sitting and jibberjabber

. Why expand on the DDD/Nacho conflict if a) you have nothing to say and b ) DDD isn't even your top scum choice? Because it's an easy thing for scum to talk about, that's why.

SA's biggest scum ITT.

-the bolded parts are overstatements with a hint of buzzwords

SA wagon never really takes off so he moves on to Malee:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Malee

L-2.

SA's not looking too bad to me anymore. Malee, on the other hand, is just a mess whenever she appears. The thing that bothers me the most is

the pandering

. I know I defended her because she played like this in another game, but she never pandered even when she was under fire. I feel like she just saw that in some "how 2 be gud scum" article and copied it

-overstating again; malee did agree she made a mistake and unvoted, it never got into pandering territory

malee wagon dies and than he moves onto alice and funkybike

those die down a bit and its off to theo:

Hmm..

If theo comes back, he really needs to explain his flip flop.

-immediately jumps to flipfloppng, fails to consider that it could just be a change in reads or a tentative read.

jumps to accusing macro of flipflopping as well.

Also, it is odd that after all that effort spent to prove to us that alice and funky are scum he just changes his mind and pushes a theo/macro lynch

These aren't the actions of town pressuring a wide variety of people to understand their alignments, this is aggressive scum looking for a mislynch.

CONFIRM VOTE: LS

[4nxi3ty]

meh scum can often take a pro-town stance such as pressuring lurkers to post more content. those posts don't really sway me one way or the other.

what does bother me, is that LS has repeatedly hopped from wagon to wagon and for most part gets a town read on someone when their wagon isn't moving.

[4nxi3ty]

There is no way for me to read your mind and actually know what caused you to do something, I'll I see is waht happens in thread.

Why do you the need to provide a wiki link instead of just explaing why you waited to vote rhinox?

Exaggerations are fine when trying to get reactions, your exaggerations tend to fall more towards pushing a lynch rather than reaction test.

Why do you think a funkybike wagon is no longer viable?

I'm not going "OMG WAGONHOPS SCOMZR", I am showing that the timing of your hops happen after someone else has jumped off and that you always end up on the next biggest wagon.

Why do you dismiss my points as arbritary instead of trying to understand my perspective?

[4nxi3ty]

had a tentative townread on vincent, not really seeing scum motivation in voided's posts.

why would you rather not lynch LS, cause he is active?

[4nxi3ty]

... except for the fact that he has provided independent thought on several players, pushed voided's lynch(which really didn't have much support) instead of someone like funky, and he never jumped on a LS wagon to save his skin...

macro's entrance into this game has all the telltale signs of being town.

[4nxi3ty]

Meh. If you look at the vote count archive, that's not really true. Well, someone might always jump off before I unvote, sure, but I don't always end up on the biggest wagon.

the three main wagons of today have been funky, alice, and macro; the vote count may not show it but you have pushed all of those lynches when they were the center of discussion. You have moved on to someone new everytime there was and indication of discussion shifting. You can not simply pass this off as "correlation is not causesation".

[4nxi3ty]

Just in case it isn't clear to everyone: We're lynching either funky or theo today. If you aren't on either of their wagons, stop lollygagging and hop on.

I'd rather you hop on funky, but you know.

Hasn't mentioned, interacted with, or pressured funky's replacement at all; instead he has continued to push the lynch of the person with the most attention.

What does everyone think of Macro's claim? Some of us seem to find it a town tell, but I'm not so sure

This is what I was getting at earlier about him using questions to mask actions as a pro-town stance. The main motivation of that statement is to place doubt into macro's claim being a towntell.

His question has similar motivations as this comment:

I basically made Alice the center of discussion

Last is trying to portray himself as this uber-towny who generates all sorts of discussion.

[4nxi3ty]

I'm not really seeing the LS case - his recent responses to me are pretty convincing.

why do you think this? I thought DDD brought up a very valid point about LS's recent response to pressure:

astsurvivor's 422 is a way bad post; he sells out for a lesser lynch than his prefered target and he gets that kind of snotty tone that I get when I'm scum and have people suspecting me for what I think are wrong reasons.

LS has focused on trying to prove that the points against him are wrong. One would think he would be more suspicious of me, nacho, and dc. I would expect him to focus more on figuring out why we are attacking him if he were, yet his efforts have been towards winning the arguements. I would even say his recent posts show more survialistic tones than macro's.

[4nxi3ty]

But I can't believe you're accusing me of being scummy because I'm trying to "win" the arguments against me.

nope you're sidestepping the point, anybody can want to win a debate. Your behaviour shows that disproving arguments is a higher priority for you than figuring out alighnments(ie. you care more about how people percieve you than you do about scumhunting).

That combined with the coincedences in your voting pattern and pushes, your exaggerations when attacking others which always lean towards pushing lynches instead of reaction tests, your faux questions that are more about looking pro-town than finding scum, and your dismissive tone when responding to the people who suspect you is why I am accusing you of being scum.

[4nxi3ty]

Doesn't matter if the words are different the idea is the same; You prioritize disproving the points me, nacho, and dc bring up over figuring the motivations behind our points. Your lack of suspicion through out your posts prove this idea.

I have to disagree with it being tougher to discern alighnments from people attacking you, I believe it is more player-dependent.

For example, SA is one of my strongest town reads specifically because of the way he attacked me. That doesn't mean everyone who attacks me will be easier to read.

predit: ...cause he is probly town

[4nxi3ty]

End of Day vote count with my townreads in light green:

End of Day Vote Count

Lastsurvivor

(7) -

nachomamma8

, 4nxi3ty,

DCLXVI

, Macrophage,

Alicewondering

,

kortul

, hiplop
Macrophage (3) - Voidedmafia, Debonair Danny DiPietro,

rhinox

Debonair Danny DiPietro (3) - Sleepless Assassin,

fishythefish

,

Lastsurvivor

My current thinking is DDD-scum. That makes SA and voided lean-town, and likely 2 of {4nxi3ty, Macro, hiplop} scum - probably 4nx and 1 of the other 2. SA's vote doesn't feel like a bus. He made comments at the end of the day about not liking either of Macro/LS wagons, while voting DDD. Voided/DDD, eh possible, but I think DDD's recent post points to no. DDD find reasons to call everyone scummy BUT voided. If DDD is scum, thats a pretty good sign voided is town. I don't think hiplop/macro are scum together, so that would make 4nx scum by POE. One of Macro/hiplop as the last scum? I'm not confident here. I could possibly see myself having a bad read on like kortul, or mayyyybe fishy.

it is too early for wagon analysis, you need at least one scumflip. I have to agree that I don't really like DDD's wide range negative attack on everyone. Your kortul read is good, fishy read could be bad.

---

since I was wrong about LS it stands to reason my Macro read could also be wrong, probably not gonna fight a macro lynch today >.>

just going to sit on my vote until I can get my scumdar recalibrated.

[4nxi3ty]

ISO 1: Accepts fish's explanation, but leaves the vote. Could he have forgotten to unvote? Or maybe he saw nothing to vote on?

there really wasn't much to vote on considering it we were only on the first page of D1.

ISO 2: Votes Last in a vote-only post.

is there scum motivation in this post? objectively, I find it very hard to see any indication of either alignment in iso2. Also, I did expand on my ls vote in a later post:

yep, your points against SA are a bit of an overstatement in my eyes. Had similar feelings about your case against rhinox though I think it comes from a more confirmationbias shootfirst playstyle than a scum mindest.

ISO 3: Votes Malee for being "jumpy". Looks like a wagon hop to me. Honestly, I see scum voting town here. Maybe I'm wrong on Malee. Also, what was the Last vote all about?

At that stage in the game seeing someone with a jumpy(or paranoid) vibe is as good to go off of as anything else. A wagonhop from fishy to malee? eh your a little off base there. If I think someone is scummy the amount votes on that person won't deter from joining a wagon in most circumstances.

ISO 7: Answers "what do you think of DDD" with a wishy washy maybe scum maybe town answer. I don't think he's done anything to try to clarify the read either. What really gets me is the use of an exclamation point in "I could easily see scum!" and then where I expect an explanation and maybe mini-case, it starts to turn into maybe he's town, let's wait and see.

I don't think being unsure about someone's alignment at the very early stages in the game is wish-washy.

your reading this part wrong:

I could easily see scum!Danny playing in a way not to stand out

it is a different way of saying scumDDD or 'DDD's-scumplay'

ISO 8: This is a pretty bad answer to Rhinox's question about whether Malee's actions make sense as scum.

don't really get how thats a bad answer. rhinox asked if scum-malee would push a case on nacho voting vincent? malee never really made a case(it was just a few post barely out of rvs) and her vote was based on nacho skimming(the push was never based on the voting). the question itself was flawed.

ISO 9: Another pot-shot like the one on DDD, this time at Rhinox. Says he is reactive rather than proactive. It's a negative, maybe scum, kind of point to make, but nothing to pursue. It seems like he's leaving these trails that he can point back to and say "see, they gave me bad vibes here".

meh I don't mind using pot-shots for pressure. Me leaving trails would only be valid if rhinox flipped scum and I went "see, I knew he was scum give me towncred", neither of those things have happened though.

ISO 11: Unvotes Malee for replacement. If 4n was wagon-hopping scum, this is a good move because for whatever reason nobody ever lynches someone who replaces out while being wagoned. Shows a strong preference for Alicescum rather than Bikescum. If my reads on the two are correct, this makes sense for 4nScum because Bike would be his scumbuddy.

it is also a good move for town since a replacement can take some time and a replacement might shed new light on a slot. bike hasn't flipped so basing my lynch on being scumbuddies with him makes for weak scumhunting.

[4nxi3ty]

Hey, I don't care about those things either; I care about how you apparently don't have your own opinion just using the opinions of others for cover.

can you go into detail about which opinions rhinox is using for cover?

I have to say some of the “points” against me are pretty absurd. I don’t have enough town reads? I didn’t talk about the middle of the day enough? Sorry, I put down what stuck out to me one way or another when I re-read the game. I’m not going to arbitrarily make up town reads or talk about things I don’t think are important.

when anybody goes missing for a chunk of time it is going to raise suspicions, I don't think that is absurd. To me it wasn't about not having enough townreads. It was about only saying negative things,no positives, about 8 different people. In theory, you are simultaneously moving all 8 closer to being lynched; and since we know it is impossible for all 8 to be scum, that bothers me.

Also, what do people think of Rhinox's reasoning for voting Debonair?

what do

you

about rhinox's reasoning... you are on the same wagon as him?

[4nxi3ty]

throwing this idea out there to see what richochets.

scumteam-

fishy

,

alice

,

ddd

<.< O.o

macro

-.- ddd :/

[4nxi3ty]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DDD

Read DDD's ISO. It won't take long. There's nothing in there that looks like he's trying to catch scum - the closest he comes is with the Amished tell, when he wants the support of others. He's never really pushed anything.

DDD seems an ok choice, but no more than that.

???

I found DCL's point on a fishy/LS team interesting, but I don't think that this interaction comes from a scumpair

In light of someone posting about DDD-meta, I'm going to UNVOTE: DDD. I would support an LS wagon today. I would NOT support a Macro-lynch today
VOTE: LastSurvivor

knows macro is town? *shrug*

Lastsurvivor's 422 is a way bad post; he sells out for a lesser lynch than his prefered target

1) Rhinox completely ignores meta context in this point;
2) basically I hate every post of yours from the first pander to LS
3) and if I do get lynched or killed andwhen I flip green then you can’t hide from this nonsense.[/u]

rhinox>macro?

Also, what do people think of Rhinox's reasoning for voting Debonair?

I want to see what other people think before elaborating.

Oh yeah I forgot about that. I thought that avoiding questions was a bad reason to think Debonair was scum.

this made you want everyone to comment?

[4nxi3ty]

fishy, you've played with DDD before right? have you seen him tunnel as either alighnment?

Well except for Debonair. He's a special case, but he can go in the scumpile too.

what makes DDD a special case?

[4nxi3ty]

Let's string up the real scum 4n and call it a day.

[4nxi3ty]

...i never saw anyone criticize ddd for that reason

my read on macro is very fragile

and the rest of my reads are currently in transit pending further investigations into alice and fishy.

[4nxi3ty]

The last part is a real gem.

you call 4n town for not providing a lot of content,

I am deeply offended by this comment.

SA can you take the time to pressure other people as well? that way you don't squander all of D2 pushing a scumread that is town.

[4nxi3ty]

The content thing was actually macro's pooint, not mine.

yeh I see that now. I exaggerated a bit as well. I don't mind be called scum when I post questionable content, I do get a bit flustered when I see someone say I haven't posted content after I have invested considerable time into a game.

---

I keep going back n' forth about macro. sometime I see him as town pressuring a lot of people yet than I keep going back to D1 and agreeing that all he did was placate and wifom to avoid getting lynched.

I'll probably join his lynch just cause my reads of fishy, alice, and ddd aren't that great.

[4nxi3ty]

Why the avatar change?

cause I felt like it

@4n: if you remember, what were you thinking about SA's case at this point? Later, you responded to it, and you had pretty reasonable explanations. Why didn't you post them at the time, to try to convince SA you were town?

overly ambitious association scumhunting. why should I be worried about convincing every single person in the game that I am town D1?

It may be somewhat affected by the other game we are in right now

please do not discuss ongoing games.

[4nxi3ty]

Lol LS.

I would like to revisit this post.

[4nxi3ty]

So, what made you think that SA was hopelessly tunnelled on a you/funky team? That's what's weird to me - you basically said you weren't going to try and persuade him because he was beyond reason, and I don't get that at all from his posts. Looks like an easy way to write off a case.

...I never said he hopelessly tunneled on a funky/me team... I never said I wasn't going to try and persuade him... And I never said he was beyond reason...

I "wrote off his case" by: not responding to it D1 and than responding to it D2 (eventhough he never followed up on his request for a response)

[4nxi3ty]

the main reason is the first part of that sentence; D1 I prioritize looking for scum over dispelling every accusation. The second part of that sentence is me attempting to get SA to realize he had an idea cemented into his head that is wrong.

Can you go into detail about why you think DDD's play is nicer than yesterday?

[4nxi3ty]

I still don't really understand what you meant. The bit I bolded really reads to me as saying SA is tunnelled, not just that he's wrong. I guess there's not much more to say on this.

I think DDD's actually doing stuff today. I haven't really got a read on that stuff, but I'm hopeful that I can, whereas yesterday he was a big useless blank.

If I thought SA was tunneling I would've specifically said he tunneled.

this is what I said:

The second part of that sentence is me attempting to get SA to realize he had an idea cemented into his head that is wrong.

And this is why I thought that:

Overall: Holy fuck, 4n is scum. Assuming I'm right, Malee is town because there is no way they are buddies. Bike and 4n are definitely buddies though. If I was a dayvig, I'd be shooting 4n in this post and voting Bike because they both need to die Day 1.

What

specific

stuff has DDD done today that is good and what

specifically

about his play yesterday was a "big useless blank"?

Can you sum up what alice has done D1 & D2 to be in your scumpool?

[4nxi3ty]

ebwop
*this is what I said:

especially when that person already has it cemented into their head that me and funkybile are scum.

[4nxi3ty]

I'd actually like to hear what everyone saw in DCL that was more townie than Bike was scummy.

I thought bike was town so I don't think this applies to me.

hmm I need to revisit somethings about alice's and fishy's play.

might place my vote soon.

[4nxi3ty]

Unvote,Vote: Macro

thats two wagons with 6 votes, both are at L-1, alice is the deciding vote.

macro is extremely null for me yet I feel that he has become a distraction either way. I would like to see how the game dynamic shifts when he is out of the picture.

[4nxi3ty]

@4nx: What is your 2nd most preferred lynch?

actually the lynch that I would most prefer is alice. your and ddd's lynch are both very meh, I am okay with them but not overly excited about it. Your lynch has more benefits since if you were alive tomorrow I feel like we would repeat the same day of 'did theo commit the amished tell' and 'was macros claim survivalistic placating'. Plus I want to see how ddd plays without you to focus on.

[4nxi3ty]

And so, hah, I just see that my replaced slot had the hammer vote on either Macrophage or DDD earlier. Yet no one seems to have been pushing for action, or for Alice to remove her lone single vote off of Sleepless Assassin. That's....well, that's just downright bizarre.

not sure of what your getting at here. Do you think we should've goaded alice into hammering? Or do you want us to realize that your vote is still on SA?

[4nxi3ty]

Think DCL is probably town, but this is shakier than Rhino.

Think hiplop and DDD are both wastes of space, but unsure if they're town wastes of space or scum pretending to be wastes of space.

what have these two done or not done to convince you of this?

DCL's subsequent replacement in seems very genuine. I'm a sucker for someone who puts in work, which DCL has put it in spades, but I find myself agreeing with most of his reads, as well.

which reads do you agree with and why?



would like to see a post from rhinox before any sort've claiming/hammering happens.

[4nxi3ty]

DCL's subsequent replacement in seems very genuine. I'm a sucker for someone who puts in work, which DCL has put it in spades, but I find myself agreeing with most of his reads, as well.

which reads do you agree with and why?

[4nxi3ty]

also if you don't mind me asking... you haven't really taken a stance on me, voided, kortul, or sa? I understand focussing on ddd and macro since they are the top wagon; but why focus more on fishy, hiplop, rhinox and dcl than the rest of us?

[4nxi3ty]

danny, what is your current read of fishy?

[4nxi3ty]

danny, what is your current read of fishy?

Same as it has been most of the day; likelier town than not. I'm still high on a big three of Macro/Rhinox/SA though one of those last two might be wrong for someone who is/was voting for Macro.

his play reminds me of junpei from magician mafia, i've been kinda waiting for you to call him out on all the waffling...

Oooo, a non-standard role.

UNVOTE:

Because DDD being at L-1 doesn't seem a great idea right now.

This feel likes "Oooo, I finally have an avenue to avoid bussing my buddy" when it should feel like "Oooo, this setup is awesome" or "meh i don't like the idea of lynching a possible powerrole"

I want this lynch now.

Vote: DDD

hmm this may be a little premature but I don't want to risk it with deadline, and potentially my lynch, approaching... I am a mason.

If my will gets manipulated and my vote goes to Danny, Fishy, Magua or Macro they ARE NOT masons.

[4nxi3ty]

And seriously? I finally have an avenue to avoid bussing my buddy? Read my damn ISO. If DDD was my buddy, and I didn't want to bus him, I've have had plenty of opportunities to stick to my reads on other people to get other lynches

there is always an oppurtunity to lynch someone else. Your post immediatly after ddd's claim had more vibes of relief and excitement than frustration and sadness about your top scumread possibly being wrong. This is the second day you have adamantly voted ddd yet have backed down later.

his play reminds me of junpei from magician mafia, i've been kinda waiting for you to call him out on all the waffling...

I didn't read Magician Mafia looking for scum so I didn't really remember that at all. More importantly, why would I use junpei meta for Ftf when I have Ftf meta I can use?

It isn't about meta. It is about how you are aware that scum sometimes have the tendency to waffle, yet you haven't expressed the slightest suspicion towards fishy's waffles.

A mason in the sense that you have a QT together or a mason in the sense that you're willing to say your partner is confirmed town?

both, and thats all I really have to say on that matter for now.

[4nxi3ty]

What do you think of my take on that claim? I think it's pretty likely - a Secretary, who writes out wills, gets to alter someone's will by not typing it out right. This power would be really huge for scum - particularly as the game wears on - and so I doubt they have it.

The logic makes sense though there an infinite number of ways to balance a game so I don't think it is that clear cut. tbh it sounds like a claim engineered to be believable, especially when I suspect his buddy has been pushing the validity of the claim.

Where have I waffled?

Spoiler:

rhinox

Damn. Rhinox is scum. And I'm never going to convince soberFishy, let alone anyone else.

Note to self: you made this post for a reason. Work out what that reason was, and then meta Rhinox's very early game play.

Hmmm. I think I can see what I was getting at - Rhinox is very flippant and friendly here, without any attempt to get things going. Might just be his style, I'll check out his meta later today.

@Rhinox: I certainly remember playing with you (and enjoyed it every time), but my meta of you isn't good enough that I have a feel for your likely page 1-2 play as town and scum. That's true of everyone, probably including myself.

Anyway, going through some games I don't think RVS flippancy is a particularly good scumtell for Rhinox. Actually, he seems to play seriously pretty early as either alignment, so it might be a Rhinox-is-an-impostor-tell. Still not feeling very good about Rhinox, though. The "I don't have you the top of my last will" seems calculated to remind me that I should want Rhinox to think I'm town (which, of course, I do), and so should back off attacking him. I'm going to

UNVOTE: VOTE: Rhinox

@fishy: just curious, which games of mine did you use to meta my early game play?

I just went down your topics list. Open 338 was the only scum one, and there were plenty of town ones including LWIII. The game most reminiscent of your play here was called something like Round Table Mafia, and you were town - so the meta gives you a mild towntell.

Rhinox's post 54 reeks of town to me. The sentiments are convincing and townish - particularly "hard to seperate wrong from scum" and "this sort of thing encourages town on town BS" (though I'd modify it to "alignment independent BS" to pick a nit). I think scumRhinox would be fighting Lastsurvivor harder - it's a fight that it feels like he could win - rather than this.

UNVOTE:

@Rhinox: I didn't look at the LW games before III. In III, you did joke around on page 1, but there was also content - you talked about mechanics, and asked who wanted your vote. Here, other than answering DDD, you were completely contentless for several posts.

funky/dclxvi

VOTE: funkybike

Do you have nothing to say about the game other than unvoting?

Alice is scum

Alice's move to hiplop is really bad:
LS's case on Alice is a mixed bag. “You didn't apply that tell to everyone” just doesn't do much for me. Of the 4 points, only 2) and 4) do anything for me – Alice's contrived explanation of the simple fact that defending scum is scummy feels off, and not trying to get a read on themoaner is also bad. Also, Alice's backing off from hiplop in the face of pressure looks scummy. All in all, Alice is looking like scum here.

Funkybike is worse than a standard lurker
Themoaner's content so far has been fine. Malee's scumminess is rapidly fading from my mind, but it shouldn't be – this slot is still pretty likely scum.

DDD hasn't done much, and I don't have much of a read on him. If themoaner's scum, so is DDD:

Leaning scum:
DDD (probscum so if themoaner is scum)

Probscum:
Alice, themoaner, funkybike

I think funky was more than a lurker hunt, and Malee was scummy, not just forgetful. See my iso.

Rather DDD than Macro. Both are bad lynches, but Macrotown I'm more sure on.

Oh yeah, I remember. DCL was the one who made the me-LS link, and so is probtown for me. Scum rarely hunt for multiple scum day 1, and probably if they do they connect a townie to a buddy, not two townies. OTOH, I think his push on Macro isn't great, and funky was scummy. Pretty mixed feelings (sorry Magua ), but I think I prefer this lynch to either of the others.

VOTE: DCL

Yes, there is something that makes me think DCL is town, but other things make me unsure. Overall, I've got a bit of a town read on him, but I'm more comfortable with his lynch than the others.

LS

Other townies

LS does the same to a lesser extent – though he doesn't really explain enough that he's at all likely to help. More to the point, I'm pretty much certain he's trying to catch scum, so he's very likely town.

LS is being very appeasey generally. He prodded Rhinox, and only voted when I agreed with him. Rhinox replied, and I backed off, and so did LS.

None of those actions are poorly explained, for me. But I don't like the way they line up with scum avoiding conflict.

Lots of faint townreads on people who feel genuine, which is nice. LS, SA, hiplop and Rhinox are in this category. I don't have any scumreads atm, but I'll spend some time on the game and try to cobble one together tomorrow.

You want to give your vote to town, and preferably competent town. If you have time to read the game, great. If not, pick from this list of townies:

Me, Rhinox, LS, Nacho

Looking at LS, I no longer think he's particularly townish, but tbh I don't really get the case on him. I'll give it another go tomorrow. For now, I'm just going to sheep Nacho.

VOTE: LS

Yes, that what's I'm referring to.

IDK. If you accuse someone of not posting content, and they post content, that doesn't mean your argument was irrelevant and dismissing it is still strange.

Bleh. I'm kind of liking LS's responses here. Strike me as town genuinely trying to explain himself after making a mistake. I wish my scumreads didn't keep falling apart.

malee/theo/macro

In fact,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Malee

I think Malee's prod at Nacho is the scummiest thing in the game so far.

Malee flaking sucks. I really wanted her explanation, and now instead I just have an unsatisfying suspicion on someone who won't be able to explain anything. Maybe we should just lynch her.

It's pretty clear to me that Malee was panicking and backing off without really thinking about what she'd actually said/thought about Nacho. This kind of contradiction seems more likely from scum than town for me.

I think the case against Malee is strong. Sure, there's only one point, but it's a pretty good one.

TBH, I'm quite liking this catchup post from themoaner - lots of it has me nodding along, and it doesn't seem particularly self interested. Bleh. I hate weighing my reads of two different people in one slot.

Definitely want to hear from theo about the Alice flipflop. Actually, I take back some of the strength of feeling in my last post. Alice is still not the right call, but depending on what I hear from funky and theo I could go either way there.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: theomoaner

L-1.

VOTE: Macro

L-1 again. Macro should get his will in order, and then claim, and then get lynched.

Not-VT claim is unacceptable. The main points of a claim is that if it is likely to get confirmed or (less so) shot at, we can leave you alive. If you have the option of making up a claim to fit the facts later, that's no good to us at all.

VOTE: Macro

@Macro: that turnaround from theo looks bad to me because it didn't make sense. He'd called Alice the "voice of reason" in the game, and then because of one thing he found "a little strange" he turned round and voted her. I feel he's scum who'd forgotten how much he'd said Alice was town - possibly rereading only his catchup post, and not the explanation he gave me. That kind of townread just doesn't evaporate that fast.

So, the case on Macro. I think it sucks.

For the people on it, I'm actually swinging round to think DCL is town. Mostly because of his LS-me link. Group scumhunting is a pretty solid towntell. (I had that reaction at the time, but forgot about it until a reread).

there are still some questionable posts about alice and ddd I haven't had time to get to. Also, I didn't quote all the relevant posts just the ones that I felt were most relevant. Some of your read changes are more natural than others but I find the overall evolution of your reads to be very odd.

since DDD isn't getting lynched today, I am going to go with the defacto lynch that will benefit the game dynamic the most.

unvote, vote: macro

[4nxi3ty]

well played

good setup, worked nicely with the vote mechanic.

I'm good with releasing the mason qt