NomicScum, Game 2

For completed/abandoned Mish Mash Games.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

NomicScum, Game 2

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:22 pm

Post by Packbat »

The following is a variation of Peter Suber's Initial Rules, intended to encourage a succession of games to be played on the mafiascum.net forums and wiki.

Spoiler: Game 1 Initial Rules
Meta Rules


I.
All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. All Meta Rules are in effect whenever a game begins. Wherever there is a contradiction between any Meta Rules and any other rules, the Meta Rules shall govern. The Meta Rules consist of rules I-V.

II.
No changes will be made to the Meta Rules except by unanimous agreement of all players. No changes will be made to the Meta Rules by the agreement of fewer than five players.

III.
Each game shall begin with a written ruleset consisting of these Meta Rules and a set of Game Rules. If no game is in progress and no set of Game Rules have been proposed, the winner of the previous game shall have the right to propose such a set. If no such winner exists, or if said winner fails to propose such a set within a reasonable time, or if, after such a set is proposed, no game starts, any person with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account may propose a set of Game Rules.

IV.
Each game shall start with a written player list. The player list shall be drawn exclusively from persons with unbanned Mafiascum.net accounts.

V.
If a game has no players on the player list, the game may be terminated by any person with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account.

Immutable Rules


101. The game shall start at 11:59 p.m. UTC on Saturday, April 7 with an initial set of Game Rules consisting of Rules 101-118 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). Until the game starts, any eligible person may add or remove themself from the player list at will; after the game starts, the player list shall be fixed except where other rules permit its alteration.

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)


104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. Any player who has lost (by forfeiture or otherwise) shall be removed from the player list. No person may join the player list of a game from which they have been removed.

115. Any player whose action violates the rules shall lose and be removed from the player list. The action in question and all actions following it shall then be reversed.

116. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

117. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

118. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

Mutable Rules


201. Players shall alternate in alphabetical order by username, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, nor parts of turns be omitted, except where the player of the turn shall be removed from the playerlist prior to that turn's completion. In the event of such a player's removal, the turn of the next player alphabetically shall begin immediately. All players begin with zero points.

202. A player's turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) adding a number of points to their score. The number of points added shall be calculated by subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer.
(This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)


203. Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to propose a rule-change and bring it to vote. When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.

204. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

205. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, first, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each, and second, the players who fail to explicitly vote on a proposal before close of voting shall lose 5 points and have their votes placed in favor.

206. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

207. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

208. Each player always has exactly one vote.

209. The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. No player's points may increase or decrease except as ordained by a rule.

210. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.


. . Wiki.
Last edited by Packbat on Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:52 pm, edited 8 times in total.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #6 (isolation #1) » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:45 pm

Post by Packbat »

...interesting. Something funny is going on when I edit the post. Moving playerlist here:
  • animorpherv1
  • Chevre
  • CSL
  • Cybele
  • JDGA
  • Lord Mhork
  • Packbat
  • Xalxe


Moving again...
Last edited by Packbat on Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #10 (isolation #2) » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:54 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 8, animorpherv1 wrote:
In post 7, Xalxe wrote:Length is fucking with post editing.

It won't let me abridge it, though.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #12 (isolation #3) » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:30 pm

Post by Packbat »

Ah, I figured it out. The characters in the URL must count, too.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #13 (isolation #4) » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:16 pm

Post by Packbat »

In all seriousness, though, is there anything that needs fixing in the ruleset? It's easier to repair things now (when all you need to convince is me) than next week (when all you need to convince is
everyone
).
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #18 (isolation #5) » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:22 am

Post by Packbat »

I have yet to see a game where that rule remained unamended for the first two turn cycles.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #24 (isolation #6) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:29 am

Post by Packbat »

Bumping player list to top of page...
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #25 (isolation #7) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:31 am

Post by Packbat »

Initial Player List, Game 1:


  • animorpherv1
  • Chevre
  • CSL
  • Cybele
  • JDGA
  • Lord Mhork
  • malthusis
  • MonkeyMan576
  • Packbat
  • Robotnick2
  • T-Bone
  • Xalxe
Last edited by Packbat on Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #29 (isolation #8) » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:46 pm

Post by Packbat »

Updated.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #30 (isolation #9) » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:53 am

Post by Packbat »

...hey, it just occurred to me: having the initial unanimity-required rounds is a little bit of a score-balancing feature, I think - reducing the advantage of going first.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #32 (isolation #10) » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:55 am

Post by Packbat »

Yes, but who would vote for it?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #34 (isolation #11) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:03 pm

Post by Packbat »

Okay -
first post is wrong, but
game on!


Player List:


  • animorpherv1
  • Chevre
  • CSL

  • Cybele
  • Feirei
  • JDGA
  • Lord Mhork
  • malthusis
  • MonkeyMan576
  • Packbat
  • Robotnick2
  • T-Bone
  • Xalxe


animorpherv1, kick it off.

Edit: Wiki page.

Edit 2: CSL has switched accounts to Feirei - as he has not yet had a turn, I am simply switching his position on the list accordingly. Judgment may, of course, be called if desired.
Last edited by Packbat on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #37 (isolation #12) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:17 pm

Post by Packbat »

24 hours from when?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #40 (isolation #13) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:22 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 38, Chevre wrote:That would have to be an amendment of 203; otherwise it contradicts with 203 and would be therefore useless.

Not true - 203 grants one game week to propose a rule-change
and bring it to vote
- this does not require the rule-change to be
brought to vote
within 24 hours, only proposed. Rule 111 requires a reasonable amount of time to debate rule-changes anyway.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #41 (isolation #14) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:30 pm

Post by Packbat »

Wait - it actually contradicts
201
:

201. Players shall alternate in alphabetical order by username, taking one whole turn apiece.
Turns may not be skipped or passed, nor parts of turns be omitted, except where the player of the turn shall be removed from the playerlist prior to that turn's completion.
In the event of such a player's removal, the turn of the next player alphabetically shall begin immediately. All players begin with zero points.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #45 (isolation #15) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:33 pm

Post by Packbat »

You have the whole week to bring the proposal to vote. Plenty of time to post revisions.

Preview Edit: And I still like it too - there's nothing stopping you from declaring that it takes precedence over 201.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #47 (isolation #16) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:34 pm

Post by Packbat »

You forgot to say " twenty-four (24) hours
from the start of their turn
to propose a new rule".
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #50 (isolation #17) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:35 pm

Post by Packbat »

Also, your rule seems to
only
skip the turn on the first missed proposal - the second time they're prodded but not skipped. Is that right?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #51 (isolation #18) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:35 pm

Post by Packbat »

(Hey, we're making your rule
better!
)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #53 (isolation #19) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:44 pm

Post by Packbat »

Is now a good time to suggest using singular-they instead of his/her? :D
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #55 (isolation #20) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:54 pm

Post by Packbat »

What if someone joins the game who professes a gender identity which is neither "him" or "her"? Singular-they avoids that minefield.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #61 (isolation #21) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:21 pm

Post by Packbat »

I don't think animorpherv1 has declared that it is up for voting yet.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #63 (isolation #22) » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:31 pm

Post by Packbat »

In that case:

301: Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in their turn, their turn is skipped the first time. The second time, they are prodded and have an extra twenty-four (24) hours, and is skipped at the end of the time. The third time, they are eliminated. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.


I'll hold my vote, pending correction a la JDGA #60.

Votes so far:

  • animorpherv1
  • Chevre
  • CSL
  • Cybele
  • JDGA - Nay
  • Lord Mhork
  • malthusis - Yea
  • MonkeyMan576
  • Packbat
  • Robotnick2
  • T-Bone - Yea?
  • Xalxe - Yea
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #70 (isolation #23) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:18 am

Post by Packbat »

301: Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in their turn, their turn is skipped the first time. The second time, they are prodded and have an extra twenty-four (24) hours, and is skipped at the end of the time. The third time, they are eliminated. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.


Votes so far:

  • animorpherv1 - Yea
  • Chevre
  • CSL
  • Cybele - Nay
  • JDGA - Nay
  • Lord Mhork
  • malthusis - Yea
  • MonkeyMan576
  • Packbat
  • Robotnick2 - Nay
  • T-Bone - Yea?
  • Xalxe - Yea
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #77 (isolation #24) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:23 am

Post by Packbat »

Apparently, though, people don't want to make amendments? Is it just a simply "I propose X Amendment" kind of deal? Correct me if I'm wrong...

Actual proposal of rule-changes
happens on your turn. What you can do on other people's turns is
make suggestions
which the current player can incorporate at will.

Seriously, guys, this isn't one of those failNomics where everyone spazzes out rule-changes and then the game explodes in a cloud of the-moderators-can't-keep-up. Read the rules.

And, seeing as how animorpherv1 isn't revising the rule, VOTE: Nay.

301: Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in their turn, their turn is skipped the first time. The second time, they are prodded and have an extra twenty-four (24) hours, and is skipped at the end of the time. The third time, they are eliminated. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.


Votes so far:

  • animorpherv1 - Yea
  • Chevre - Nay
  • CSL
  • Cybele - Nay
  • JDGA - Nay
  • Lord Mhork - Nay
  • malthusis - Yea
  • MonkeyMan576
  • Packbat - Nay
  • Robotnick2 - Nay
  • T-Bone - Yea?
  • Xalxe - Yea
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #79 (isolation #25) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:44 am

Post by Packbat »

Work? Yes. But the proposed changes are improvements, particularly the increase to 48 hours.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #85 (isolation #26) » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:33 am

Post by Packbat »

I think animorpherv1's turn will end as soon as CSL votes.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #92 (isolation #27) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:34 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 90, animorpherv1 wrote:My goal right now is to lay down basic structure.

Your
initial goal
should be to lay down basic structure, I agree - but once a change is implemented, it becomes a part of the ruleset that must be adhered to as strictly as every other part. Therefore, it needs to be as solid as possible
before
it is enacted, or else it will simply cause headaches.

Obviously you don't need to cover every possible case - none of us said you needed to form a V/LA clause immediately, for example - but every change must halt the ruleset in a good state.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #101 (isolation #28) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:56 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 98, animorpherv1 wrote:
In post 97, MonkeyMan576 wrote:Meaning you can PM someone without giving them an extra 24 hours.


Normally I'd agree with this, but there's always the chance that the person forgot about the game, so the PM reminder + 24 hours gives them a chance to come in and make the rule.

@Packbat:
Who gets the points? Just the rule proposer or the people who yes + rule proposer?


The relevant rules are:

202.
A player's turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) adding a number of points to their score. The number of points added shall be calculated by subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer.
(This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)


205. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, first, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each, and second, the players who fail to explicitly vote on a proposal before close of voting shall lose 5 points and have their votes placed in favor.

207. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.


202 gives points to whosever turn it is. 205 gives points to voters. 207 gives points to whoever proposed the rule-change, which I read as also the player whose turn it is, but if you want to invoke Judgment, that's fine.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #103 (isolation #29) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:12 am

Post by Packbat »

They all contain the word "points" - that's how I found them.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #104 (isolation #30) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:14 am

Post by Packbat »

Super belated reply!

In post 57, MonkeyMan576 wrote:Isn't there a limit to the number of rules that can be established?


210.
At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

There are presently thirteen.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #105 (isolation #31) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:21 am

Post by Packbat »

UNVOTE:

I would vote in favor of the following:

Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change after another twenty-four (24) hours, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.


You can play with the timing and the wording, but I want prods before skips and at least 48 hours to post a rule.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #107 (isolation #32) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:49 am

Post by Packbat »

Do you want to change the wording to that?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #109 (isolation #33) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:54 am

Post by Packbat »

Crap, it just occurred to me that that might not be allowd.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #110 (isolation #34) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:55 am

Post by Packbat »

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on
and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

It sounds to me like voting happens strictly
after
debate from that rule. Am I reading it wrong?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #112 (isolation #35) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:42 am

Post by Packbat »

Well, whatever, then.

VOTE: Yea

From now on, it would probably be a good idea to wait on calling for a real vote for a while. Maybe do some straw polls, but that's it.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #115 (isolation #36) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:03 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 113, Cybele wrote:This is the new version that we're voting on?

Not unless a Judge so rules - by my interpretation of the rules, given that voting has begun, it is too late to impose further revisions.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #119 (isolation #37) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:16 pm

Post by Packbat »

Hey, I don't make the...

...

*headdesk*
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #121 (isolation #38) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:36 pm

Post by Packbat »

Also, Rule 212. If you want, you can refer the matter to Judgment and have Xalxe rule.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #124 (isolation #39) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:02 pm

Post by Packbat »

If, as I suspect, the bill cannot be revised after being put up for vote:

301: Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in their turn, their turn is skipped the first time. The second time, they are prodded and have an extra twenty-four (24) hours, and is skipped at the end of the time. The third time, they are eliminated. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #127 (isolation #40) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:12 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 110, Packbat wrote:
111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on
and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

It sounds to me like voting happens strictly
after
debate from that rule. Am I reading it wrong?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #129 (isolation #41) » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:29 pm

Post by Packbat »

You're reading it the same way I am, at least.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #131 (isolation #42) » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:09 am

Post by Packbat »

Sending an (informal!) prod.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #133 (isolation #43) » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:19 am

Post by Packbat »

301: Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in their turn, their turn is skipped the first time. The second time, they are prodded and have an extra twenty-four (24) hours, and is skipped at the end of the time. The third time, they are eliminated. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.


Votes so far:

  • animorpherv1 - Yea
  • Chevre - Nay
  • CSL - Nay
  • Cybele - Nay
  • JDGA - Nay
  • Lord Mhork - Nay
  • malthusis - Yea
  • MonkeyMan576 - Nay
  • Packbat - Yea
  • Robotnick2 - Nay
  • T-Bone - Yea
  • Xalxe - Yea


With 5/12 votes in favor, Rule-Change 301 fails. animorpherv1 gains 4 points by Rule 202 and loses 10 points by Rule 207.

Chevre's turn begins
- deadline (expired on 2012-04-21 20:00:00)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #136 (isolation #44) » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:02 am

Post by Packbat »

I think it would be better to give animorpherv1 the chance to pass the resolution he invented, if he so desires.

You could write a V/LA rule, though.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #139 (isolation #45) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:52 pm

Post by Packbat »

There's always the obvious: amending 204 to make passage go by simple majority. :)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #142 (isolation #46) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:08 pm

Post by Packbat »

I didn't say it was a
good
obvious idea...
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #143 (isolation #47) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:40 pm

Post by Packbat »

Mod note:
CSL has switched accounts to Feirei - the player list has been updated accordingly.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #144 (isolation #48) » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:33 pm

Post by Packbat »

Bumping for Chevre.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #148 (isolation #49) » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:08 pm

Post by Packbat »

Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change after another twenty-four (24) hours, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.

is the last (not-voted-on) version of the rule, if people want to suggest revisions.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #150 (isolation #50) » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:37 pm

Post by Packbat »

I, too, would vote for the rule if it went to vote in that form.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #154 (isolation #51) » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:06 am

Post by Packbat »

I would not vote for 48+48 hours.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #165 (isolation #52) » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:27 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 164, Lord Mhork wrote:Hey, Cybele, Imma sheep you, ok?

VOTE: Yea

Still not open for voting.

In post 162, Chevre wrote:
Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change after another twenty-four (24) hours, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.


24 hours for suggestions and then I will put this up for a vote.


The instances of "rule" in the first two sentences should probably read "rule change".
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #171 (isolation #53) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:02 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 167, JDGA wrote:Perhaps give a mechanism to earn extra tries? Say if you make the deadline without requiring a prod 3/5 times in a row, you get an extra "miss" before being eliminated. That's the only improvement I can think of.

Does "Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time
in five circuits of turns
by the action of this rule" raise any objections?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #173 (isolation #54) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:22 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 172, Robotnick2 wrote:No, although presumably the counter is reset after every infraction?

Good catch! Does "Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time
in five
consecutive
circuits of turns
by the action of this rule" raise any objections?

(Emphasis added, obviously.)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #175 (isolation #55) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:56 am

Post by Packbat »

I dispute "convoluted" - it adds six words and no additional difficulty in enforcement, unlike any system in which people gain or lose strikes.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #177 (isolation #56) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:18 pm

Post by Packbat »

Any opinion on the five-consecutive-circuits variant, Feirei?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #180 (isolation #57) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:03 pm

Post by Packbat »

MonkeyMan576 wrote:Seems like too much recordkeeping to me.

It's not much more recordkeeping than the original wording, and easier to audit.

Cybele wrote:Honestly, I don't think we really need to alter the rule change proposal yet. We should see how it plays out in actual use. If it seems to restrictive, it just takes one proposal to add that in.

I'll be voting Yea to the proposal as it stands, maybe Yea to the proposal with the suggested changes. I haven't decided.


I would want this change executed:

In post 165, Packbat wrote:
In post 162, Chevre wrote:
Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change after another twenty-four (24) hours, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.


24 hours for suggestions and then I will put this up for a vote.


The instances of "rule" in the first two sentences should probably read "rule change".


...before I voted "yea", but I'd vote "yea" either way on the five-complete-circuits clause.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #182 (isolation #58) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:28 pm

Post by Packbat »

Sounds like this might run until Saturday after all.

In post 181, Feirei wrote:Three consecutive skips mean an automatic forfeiture, or you get a Nay from me.

I am not attached to any specific forfeiture rule, but I want the rule to pass - are there any players who would veto a three-consecutive-skips terminology?

Straw vote:


Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop Chevre, Cybele, Packbat Feirei animorpherv1, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Packbat animorpherv1, Feirei, MonkeyMan57 JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
After third consecutive skip Chevre, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1, Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #184 (isolation #59) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:35 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 183, Feirei wrote:Oh. Didn't see nor think about 3rd in 5. I'll support that as well.

Updating!

Straw vote:


Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop Chevre, Cybele, Packbat Feirei animorpherv1, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1, MonkeyMan57 JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
After third consecutive skip Chevre, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1, Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #186 (isolation #60) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:42 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 185, animorpherv1 wrote:The only one I support is the first one.

...and compromise is now officially required for passage. Can you elaborate on your reasons?

Straw vote:


Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Packbat Feirei JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1, MonkeyMan57 JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
After third consecutive skip Chevre, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1 Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #190 (isolation #61) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:50 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 187, Xalxe wrote:I like #1 and #3. Not #2.

Noting.

In post 188, Feirei wrote:Or what about 3rd in 5, 5th in all?

I'll add it to the list.

Preview Edit:
Chevre wrote:
Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule change. In the event that a player does not propose a rule chgange in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change after another twenty-four (24) hours, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third
?????
by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list. This rule takes precedence over Rule 201.


Basically, this is good except for what fills the question marks.

A. "time"
B. "time in five consecutive turn circuits"
C. "consecutive time"

I support all of these options.

PEDIT: Also Feirei's suggestion.

Noted (I had assumed so, as you were the proposer) - and remember to fix the typo in the second sentence.

Straw vote:


Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Packbat, Xalxe Feirei JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1, MonkeyMan57, Xalxe JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third consecutive skip Chevre, Feirei, Packbat, Xalxe animorpherv1 Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuit or fifth overall skip Chevre, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1, Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #192 (isolation #62) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:56 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 191, animorpherv1 wrote:
In post 186, Packbat wrote:
In post 185, animorpherv1 wrote:The only one I support is the first one.

...and compromise is now officially required for passage. Can you elaborate on your reasons?


The other ones seem to let them get away with too much. You can skip two round every five consecutive turns and just waste the game away for #2, and with #3, you can skip every second turn. #1 gives an incentive to stay active all the time.

That said, I would not be opposed to #4.

Noted!

Straw vote:


Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Packbat, Xalxe Feirei JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1, MonkeyMan57, Xalxe JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third consecutive skip Chevre, Feirei, Packbat, Xalxe animorpherv1 Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits or fifth overall skip animorpherv1, Chevre, Feirei, Packbat Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone, Xalxe
Last edited by Packbat on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #194 (isolation #63) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:58 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 193, Xalxe wrote:I think #4 is an acceptable compromise.

Noted!

Straw vote:


Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Packbat, Xalxe Feirei JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, Packbat animorpherv1, MonkeyMan57, Xalxe JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third consecutive skip Chevre, Feirei, Packbat, Xalxe animorpherv1 Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits or fifth overall skip animorpherv1, Chevre, Feirei, Packbat, Xalxe Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Robotnick2, T-Bone
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #196 (isolation #64) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:00 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 195, T-Bone wrote:I will only support the option that rids people who don't play the game the fastest. Is that option 1?

All four rules would eliminate a dead player in three circuits of turns.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #205 (isolation #65) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 200, malthusis wrote:I am alive, by the way. Just waiting till you guys can actually get a solid proposal together :D

Are you saying the proposal is not solid? What needs to be changed?

Honestly, why can't we just get the majority voting rule in? It will make this game a lot easier to play.

Assuming no-one beats you to it, feel free to try.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #208 (isolation #66) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:01 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 202, MonkeyMan576 wrote:I prefer the strictest option.

Right now, I'm looking less at "prefer" and more at "is willing to allow passage of without vetoing". I prefer #2, but I prefer any of them
enacted
to #2
not enacted
, so I have listed myself as supporting all options.

Preview Edit:
MonkeyMan576 wrote:You could reward players that are dependable, like extra votes or more points.

Extra votes would require an amendment to or overruling of #208.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #213 (isolation #67) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:23 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 210, MonkeyMan576 wrote:I would be willing to compromise if a version of my suggestion was added.

I would not support that - if players are booted for not posting rule changes quickly, then the player list will
only
include players who do ... and therefore
everyone
will be regularly getting whatever bonus you propose. That makes bonus points act as nothing more than shortening the game, and bonus votes universally shared and therefore meaningless.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #217 (isolation #68) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:58 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 214, MonkeyMan576 wrote:
In post 213, Packbat wrote:
In post 210, MonkeyMan576 wrote:I would be willing to compromise if a version of my suggestion was added.

I would not support that - if players are booted for not posting rule changes quickly, then the player list will
only
include players who do ... and therefore
everyone
will be regularly getting whatever bonus you propose. That makes bonus points act as nothing more than shortening the game, and bonus votes universally shared and therefore meaningless.


It doesn't have to be a major reward. Say if you propose a rule on your turn within 8 hours on four consecutive turns, you get 5 extra points or one extra vote on one proposal. Then your turn counter starts over and you need to wait another 4 turns to get a reward.

Something like that could work - I wasn't imagining a counter that reset after the reward was given. That said, I think it should be a separate proposal for three reasons.

1. It requires overruling or modifying #208, while this one overrules #201.
2. It adds another new mechanic, with its own bookkeeping requirements.
3. It adds a host of new questions which need to be discussed and resolved (e.g. "How many votes can I save up?") - these may well take longer than the remaining five days to hammer out, particularly given that we have not finalized the existing clauses of #302.

I think the odds of getting both proposals passed is better if they are passed separately.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #219 (isolation #69) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:11 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 218, MonkeyMan576 wrote:Ok, if a majority of people agree in principle to my rule then I will compromise on the 24 hour rule.

Two questions:

1. There has been no compromise on the 24 hour rule - do you mean the three-strikes-ever rule?

2. Conditional on your proposal finding support in principle, which compromises would you be willing to accept?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #222 (isolation #70) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:26 pm

Post by Packbat »

Duly noted. Put me down as supporting your proposal in principle.

Straw vote:


Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, MonkeyMan576, Packbat, Xalxe Feirei JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat animorpherv1, Xalxe JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third consecutive skip Chevre, Feirei, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, Xalxe animorpherv1 Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits or fifth overall skip animorpherv1, Chevre, Feirei, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, Xalxe Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone


* Conditional on support in principle for a future rule offering bonuses to active players.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #224 (isolation #71) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:55 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 223, Lord Mhork wrote:I'll take 1 or 3, but 2 and 4 are too complicated in my opinion.

I also will vote nay on any 'bonuses' to active players.

Okay. (I'm going to be logging off for the night pretty soon - please feel free to update the table in my absence.)

Straw vote:


Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Lord Mhork, MonkeyMan576, Packbat, Xalxe Feirei JDGA, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat animorpherv1, Lord Mhork, Xalxe JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third consecutive skip Chevre, Feirei, Lord Mhork, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, Xalxe animorpherv1 Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits or fifth overall skip animorpherv1, Chevre, Feirei, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, Xalxe Lord Mhork Cybele, JDGA, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Robotnick2, T-Bone


* Conditional on support in principle for a future rule offering bonuses to active players.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #231 (isolation #72) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:34 am

Post by Packbat »

Ah, I see I screwed up Lord Mhork's votes.

Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Lord Mhork, MonkeyMan576, Packbat, Xalxe Feirei, JDGA, Robotnick2 malthusis, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, JDGA animorpherv1, Lord Mhork, Xalxe, Robotnick2 malthusis, T-Bone
After third consecutive skip Cybele, Chevre, Feirei, Lord Mhork, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, Xalxe, JDGA, Robotnick2 animorpherv1 malthusis, T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits or fifth overall skip animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, Xalxe Lord Mhork, JDGA, Robotnick2 malthusis, T-Bone


* Conditional on support in principle for a future rule offering bonuses to active players
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #233 (isolation #73) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:20 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 232, malthusis wrote:What a mess. At this rate, I won't be able to propose a rule for another 5 weeks :(

You forgot to allow time for these proposals to be voted on. And you have little room to complain - I
started
the game, and I won't have a chance to propose for another two turns after you. I recommend doing what I have been doing, and trying to shepherd through other people's proposals in passable (both senses of the word) form.

This law is basically struck down on principle (no option has full support). Can't we just approve the majority vote rule so this game goes with much more ease?

Hypothetically, it is struck down - but the show ain't over until the fat lady sings.

animorpherv1 (and anyone else who is thinking of vetoing): if I agreed to propose (or if another proposed it first, support) a rule to boot players who missed a certain number of
votes
, would you agree to allow the third-consecutive-skip rule for this proposal? A vote criterion for forfeiture would boot dead players twelve times faster than an equivalent proposal criterion in any case.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #234 (isolation #74) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:26 am

Post by Packbat »

A draft of a proposal of the kind I am suggesting:
3xx: Any player who incurs three consecutive voting strikes or five total voting strikes shall lose and be removed from the player list. A player shall incur a voting strike when they fail to vote in a rules-mandated vote open for no less than seven days for which they were an eligible voter.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #238 (isolation #75) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:41 am

Post by Packbat »

Updating the straw poll.

Forfeiture rule Players supporting Players opposing Players uncommitted
After third skip, full stop animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576, Packbat, Xalxe Feirei, JDGA, Robotnick2 T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, JDGA animorpherv1, Lord Mhork, malthusis, Xalxe, Robotnick2 T-Bone
After third consecutive skip Cybele, Chevre, Feirei, Lord Mhork, malthusis, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, Xalxe, JDGA, Robotnick2 animorpherv1 T-Bone
After third skip in five consecutive circuits or fifth overall skip animorpherv1, Chevre, Cybele, Feirei, malthusis, MonkeyMan576*, Packbat, Xalxe Lord Mhork, JDGA, Robotnick2 T-Bone


* Conditional on support in principle for a future rule offering bonuses to active players
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #239 (isolation #76) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:44 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 235, animorpherv1 wrote:I'm not budging. Both #2 and #3 can -and will- have people skip a turn every so often without punishment.

Having your turn skipped
is
a punishment - it costs you points.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #245 (isolation #77) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:56 pm

Post by Packbat »

This does make it easier.

VOTE: Yea
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #250 (isolation #78) » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:12 pm

Post by Packbat »

Besides, I only count six votes - Chevre hasn't voted yet.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #256 (isolation #79) » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:05 am

Post by Packbat »

malthusis is the last vote outstanding.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #258 (isolation #80) » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:20 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 254, JDGA wrote:VOTE: Nay
Sorry for raining on the parade, but I still think a supermajority of some sort is a good idea to make sure silly proposals that give you a PERMANENT disadvantage for simply being busy for a day don't get through. (Hint hint, ani)

If we were looking at a majority-vote situation, I (for one) would be pickier with my vote.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #265 (isolation #81) » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:06 am

Post by Packbat »

Particularly when he realizes that whatever supermajority rule he thinks is appropriate will be a lot easier to pass with a simple-majority rule in effect.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #267 (isolation #82) » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:11 am

Post by Packbat »

Safety precaution:

UNVOTE:
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #271 (isolation #83) » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:54 pm

Post by Packbat »

I am willing to accord with the malthusis plan - and, should he recover his senses, I am willing to go to bat for a hypothetical supermajority rule JDGA may propose on his turn. I do not oppose the idea; only the tactics.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #273 (isolation #84) » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:17 pm

Post by Packbat »

I am beginning to suspect that encouraging the players to get in a political mindset is the
purpose
behind starting the game with the unanimity rule.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #278 (isolation #85) » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:35 pm

Post by Packbat »

People of the Mafiascum.net forum! Can you truly trust a Nomic player who cannot even spell "dei" correctly?

Vote for Pedro, and all your wildest dreams will come true.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #292 (isolation #86) » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:47 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 291, T-Bone wrote:We'll never pass any rules unless the change to this proposal I want is considered.

The change
has been
considered. The change
is being
considered. The change
will be
considered. But
consideration
cannot enact a change - only votes can.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #293 (isolation #87) » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:09 am

Post by Packbat »

Not to mention:
In post 258, Packbat wrote:
In post 254, JDGA wrote:VOTE: Nay
Sorry for raining on the parade, but I still think a supermajority of some sort is a good idea to make sure silly proposals that give you a PERMANENT disadvantage for simply being busy for a day don't get through. (Hint hint, ani)

If we were looking at a majority-vote situation, I (for one) would be pickier with my vote.

In post 265, Packbat wrote:Particularly when he realizes that whatever supermajority rule he thinks is appropriate will be a lot easier to pass with a simple-majority rule in effect.

In post 271, Packbat wrote:I am willing to accord with the malthusis plan - and, should he recover his senses, I am willing to go to bat for a hypothetical supermajority rule JDGA may propose on his turn. I do not oppose the idea; only the tactics.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #312 (isolation #88) » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:41 am

Post by Packbat »

Five things:

  1. Right now it's majority or unanimity. Those are the only options. The rule-change being voted on will not - cannot - be revised.
  2. JDGA's turn comes after Cybele and Feirei, and he supports a supermajority rule. That's three turns from now, not nine.
  3. As I have said repeatedly, it will be a lot easier to go from simple majority to supermajority rule than from unanimity to supermajority, as you yourself are demonstrating.
  4. It's a lot easier to get your rule-changes passed if you
    don't
    piss off 87% of the playlist.
  5. This is a game.
    If it comes down to a choice between beating my head against a brick wall or invoking Rule 113 and moving on with my life, I doubt I'll be the only one quitting.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #345 (isolation #89) » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:59 pm

Post by Packbat »

VOTE: Yea ===[]

Cybele, get cracking.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #354 (isolation #90) » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:36 pm

Post by Packbat »

I don't like extra votes as rewards for things.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #358 (isolation #91) » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 355, Cybele wrote:Hmm. Well, maybe points, than? I think that feels weak, though, since they're currently pretty meaningless. Also is anyone keeping track of them?

You win via points.

And, um, I forgot to update Chevre's score. Check the Wiki - I keep the score list there.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #364 (isolation #92) » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:34 am

Post by Packbat »

Rule 209: The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. No player's points may increase or decrease except as ordained by a rule.

I'll probably vote against the rule-change, but here's a couple suggestions anyway:

1. Declare the keeper and jockey to be
n
and 2
n
slots after the player taking their turn, where
n
equals the number of players divided by three, rounded up.

2. Does the keeper have to update the set for the
previous
player's proposal, or
this
player's proposal? Proposals don't go into effect until the next player's turn.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #370 (isolation #93) » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:36 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 366, MonkeyMan576 wrote:How could people get points in a way that's not ordained by a rule?

They can't - that's why that clause is in there. By my reading of Rule 118, if there were no such clause in the ruleset, you would be allowed to change your score at will. Which would be obviously problematic.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #372 (isolation #94) » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:29 am

Post by Packbat »

...what's the motive for untabling proposals if you don't get the points?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #375 (isolation #95) » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:26 pm

Post by Packbat »

Another note: you better make clear that non-votes are counted as nay votes, otherwise I'll propose something, set it to vote, vote for it, and immediately table it. One out of one = 100% = maximum possible number of points.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #377 (isolation #96) » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:57 pm

Post by Packbat »

Clarification:

In post 371, Cybele wrote:In regards to Untabling, and scoring an Untabled proposal: Any player may Untable a Tabled proposal in lieu of proposing their own rule change. Discussion continues as per a normal proposal, but when voting begins, votes that were held along with the tabled proposal shall be treated as if still in effect.
Votes on record shall not be scored with the passage of a tabled proposal, regardless of whether they are changed during the voting process.
All other means of scoring persist for a tabled proposal.


Is this supposed to mean "the player doesn't get points based on the votes cast"?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #379 (isolation #97) » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:14 pm

Post by Packbat »

Understood - I think that wording could be clearer.

That actually doesn't change my prior point, though: what advantage is there to untabling a proposal over simply
proposing
an identical proposal (which could then itself be tabled)?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #381 (isolation #98) » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:47 am

Post by Packbat »

I think that would be unenforceable.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #383 (isolation #99) » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:38 am

Post by Packbat »

A simpler way would be to allow infinite retabling.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #384 (isolation #100) » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:22 am

Post by Packbat »

Being as the deadline is in less than twenty-seven hours, my suggestion:

303. At any time after discussion of a rule change proposal has ended but voting has not, the proponent may
table
the proposal. A tabled proposal shall not be treated as having been passed or defeated. Upon tabling the proposal, voting ends without the proposal's passage, the proponent receives points as if all those who have not yet voted voted against the proposal, and the proponent's turn ends.

On their turn, any player may
untable
a tabled proposal in lieu of proposing their own rule change. When a proposal is untabled, it does not retain its old proposal number. Discussion continues as per a normal proposal, but when voting begins, all votes that had been placed on the proposal before its tabling shall be treated as if still in effect. Scoring on an untabled proposal shall occur as normal, save that on passage each player who had tabled or untabled the proposal shall receive 3 points per tabling or untabling, and on defeat each each player who had tabled or untabled the proposal shall lose 6 points per tabling or untabling.


Feel free to pitch me out on my ear if this does not meet your approval, of course.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #385 (isolation #101) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:16 pm

Post by Packbat »

All right, we have just reached an interesting situation. The relevant rules:

201.
Players shall alternate in alphabetical order by username, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, nor parts of turns be omitted, except where the player of the turn shall be removed from the playerlist prior to that turn's completion. In the event of such a player's removal, the turn of the next player alphabetically shall begin immediately. All players begin with zero points.

202.
A player's turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) adding a number of points to their score. The number of points added shall be calculated by subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer.
(This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)


203.
Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to propose a rule-change and bring it to vote. When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.


And here is my interpretation: By 203, the time permitted for Cybele to bring his proposal to vote expired three hours ago. By 201, he was not permitted to
not
bring it to a vote by the expiration of that time period. Therefore, as he has proposed a rule-change, to wit:

In post 371, Cybele wrote:
303. In which a new action is created to be performed on a rule change proposal in-discussion, by the proponent of said rule change proposal.
At any time after a rule change proposal has been made, and discussion has ended, but voting has not, the proponent may TABLE the proposal. Upon Tabling the proposal, voting ends. All current votes will be tallied and scored and the proposal+current votes will be placed in a hold, to be UNTABLED at a later date. The proponent's turn then ends.
In regards to scoring a tabled proposal: A tabled proposal shall not be treated as having failed or succeeded. Scoring shall be otherwise applied as if voting had ended, as described in Mutable Rule 202.
In regards to Untabling, and scoring an Untabled proposal: Any player may Untable a Tabled proposal in lieu of proposing their own rule change. Discussion continues as per a normal proposal, but when voting begins, votes that were held along with the tabled proposal shall be treated as if still in effect. Votes on record shall not be scored with the passage of a tabled proposal, regardless of whether they are changed during the voting process. All other means of scoring persist for a tabled proposal.
A proposal may only be tabled once. When a proposal is untabled, it does not retain its old proposal number.


...he must by default have sent this rule-change in this form to vote at 11:59 p.m. UTC Saturday, yesterday.

If anyone disagrees, they may invoke Judgement.

If no-one disagrees, we'll just vote on it as it stands and the voting ends next Saturday.

I VOTE: Nay for the reasons previously recorded.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #393 (isolation #102) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Post by Packbat »

  • animorpherv1 - Nay
  • Chevre
  • Cybele
  • Feirei - Nay
  • JDGA - Nay
  • Lord Mhork - Nay
  • malthusis
  • MonkeyMan576 - Nay
  • Packbat - Nay
  • Robotnick2
  • T-Bone - Yea
  • Xalxe - Nay
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #394 (isolation #103) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:02 am

Post by Packbat »

Wiki updated.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #397 (isolation #104) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:23 am

Post by Packbat »

Cybele and malthusis to go.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #398 (isolation #105) » Tue May 01, 2012 6:42 pm

Post by Packbat »

Bump.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #399 (isolation #106) » Wed May 02, 2012 5:18 pm

Post by Packbat »

Sending prods.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #401 (isolation #107) » Wed May 02, 2012 6:33 pm

Post by Packbat »

...did I send you one? I meant to PM malthusis and Cybele about voting on the proposal.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #404 (isolation #108) » Thu May 03, 2012 3:26 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 403, Cybele wrote:I invoke rule 113.
/out.

Noted.

Feirei, by rule 201, your turn starts immediately.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #406 (isolation #109) » Fri May 04, 2012 6:14 am

Post by Packbat »

If you need suggestions, I have at least seven ready to go. :P
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #408 (isolation #110) » Sat May 05, 2012 11:43 am

Post by Packbat »

Here's my top three, in descending order of importance:

Any player may propose a rule-change while the previous player's rule-change is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, said rule-change shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.


Any player who incurs three consecutive voting strikes or five total voting strikes shall lose and be removed from the player list. A player shall incur a voting strike when they fail to vote in a rules-mandated vote open for no less than seven days for which they were an eligible voter.


Any player with a positive number of points may subtract any integer number of points between one and their score (inclusive) from their own score and add it to the score of a specified recipient player by so announcing in the thread. This operation may be referred to as "paying", "transferring", "giving", or any other reasonable synonym.


Edit: #1 should speed up the game by using voting time for discussion. #2 requires people to vote - might be a bit harder to pass, of course. #3 both sets groundwork for later rules involving point transfers and allows informal agreements.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #414 (isolation #111) » Sat May 05, 2012 4:48 pm

Post by Packbat »

There's always amending 302 to require a supermajority. :)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #418 (isolation #112) » Sat May 05, 2012 5:16 pm

Post by Packbat »

...and that's another option for a rule - specifying how new players can join the game.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #432 (isolation #113) » Sun May 06, 2012 3:46 pm

Post by Packbat »

Should a player be removed from the game for any reason, any person with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account may become a candidate to replace the removed player by posting a request to that effect in the thread. After 24 hours have passed, each player shall then be given 24 hours during which they may vote for the admittance of up to one of these candidates. If at the end of the voting one of these candidates has the support of a simple majority of players, that candidate shall become a player.


Thus, no ties, and abstaining counts as voting against the admittance of any candidate. The "simple majority" criterion may, of course, be changed to a supermajority if so desired.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #435 (isolation #114) » Sun May 06, 2012 3:57 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 434, animorpherv1 wrote:I'd like to add a "no candidate" submission in the list of people, if at all possible.


A change without effect, but:

Should a player be removed from the game for any reason, any person with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account may become a candidate to replace the removed player by posting a request to that effect in the thread. After 24 hours have passed, each player shall then be given 24 hours during which they may vote for the admittance of one of these candidates or against the admittance of any candidate. If at the end of the voting one of these candidates has the support of a simple majority of players, that candidate shall become a player.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #437 (isolation #115) » Sun May 06, 2012 4:03 pm

Post by Packbat »

No problem.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #439 (isolation #116) » Sun May 06, 2012 5:18 pm

Post by Packbat »

Ooh, just saw a problem - fixing:

Should a player be removed from the game for any reason, any person with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account may become a candidate to replace the removed player by posting a request to that effect in the thread within 24 hours of the removal. If, after these 24 hours have passed, one or more such candidate has posted, each current player shall be given 24 hours during which they may vote for the admittance of one of these candidates or against the admittance of any candidate. If at the end of the voting one of these candidates has the support of a simple majority of players, that candidate shall become a player.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #445 (isolation #117) » Mon May 07, 2012 3:41 am

Post by Packbat »

In all honesty, I'm not enthusiastic for the rule either - if mine was the deciding vote, I'd probably make it pass, though.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #448 (isolation #118) » Fri May 11, 2012 5:22 pm

Post by Packbat »

Deadline to put the proposal to vote: (expired on 2012-05-12 19:59:00).
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #450 (isolation #119) » Sat May 12, 2012 8:31 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 449, Feirei wrote:It's up to vote.

What is? Several wordings have been discussed.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #453 (isolation #120) » Sun May 13, 2012 2:46 pm

Post by Packbat »

Updating Wiki accordingly!
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #457 (isolation #121) » Mon May 14, 2012 7:21 am

Post by Packbat »

Not obvious to me, I must admit.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #464 (isolation #122) » Mon May 14, 2012 2:05 pm

Post by Packbat »

The proposal now has 5 of the 6 votes required for passage. I doubt it needs my support, and I wouldn't be broken up if it failed anyway.

VOTE: Nay
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #468 (isolation #123) » Mon May 14, 2012 2:16 pm

Post by Packbat »

:up: :up: You forgot "Nay because Rule 205 rewards it."

Chevre and malthusis to go.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #470 (isolation #124) » Tue May 15, 2012 3:54 am

Post by Packbat »

...point!

UNVOTE: Nay
VOTE: Yay
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #474 (isolation #125) » Tue May 15, 2012 12:54 pm

Post by Packbat »

You realize that the "vote nay" points only come if it
passes
, right?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #476 (isolation #126) » Tue May 15, 2012 1:00 pm

Post by Packbat »

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they
had
a reason.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #491 (isolation #127) » Tue May 15, 2012 4:36 pm

Post by Packbat »

Let me know if this is correct:

Votes in favor: animorpherv1, Feirei, Packbat, Robotnick2
Votes opposed: Chevre, JDGA, Lord Mhork, MonkeyMan576, T-Bone, Xalxe
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #494 (isolation #128) » Tue May 15, 2012 4:49 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 492, T-Bone wrote:Motion failed.

malthusis hasn't voted - therefore, voting isn't over.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #496 (isolation #129) » Tue May 15, 2012 5:23 pm

Post by Packbat »

That
is
what we're voting for. I'm not sure what animorpherv1 is talking about either.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #498 (isolation #130) » Sun May 20, 2012 12:10 pm

Post by Packbat »

Okay - as the voting deadline was last night, by Rule 205 malthusis shall be fined 5 points and have his vote placed in favor ...
just
sufficing to pass the rule. Thus, by 202 Feirei receives

Code: Select all

(304-291)*(6/11)=7

points, and by 205 Chevre, Lord Mhork, MonkeyMan576, T-Bone, and Xalxe each receive 10 points. Wiki
shall be updated shortly
has been updated accordingly.

JDGA, your turn.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #499 (isolation #131) » Wed May 23, 2012 12:29 pm

Post by Packbat »

Bumping for JDGA.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #500 (isolation #132) » Sun May 27, 2012 3:35 am

Post by Packbat »

Oh, you sonofa...

Calling for Judgment: did JDGA just win by #213?


There's no clause allowing for the situation in which a player does
not
submit a rule-change within the deadline.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #502 (isolation #133) » Sun May 27, 2012 5:47 pm

Post by Packbat »

Feirei is the judge.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #504 (isolation #134) » Mon May 28, 2012 2:55 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 501, T-Bone wrote:Nope, he doesn't win. We move on.

I suppose I could see an argument that JDGA proposed a
null
rule change...

Edit: Under that interpretation, VOTE: Nay.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #513 (isolation #135) » Mon May 28, 2012 9:17 am

Post by Packbat »

Hence Meta Rule III, which allows games to restart quickly and easily.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #514 (isolation #136) » Mon May 28, 2012 9:26 am

Post by Packbat »

For reference, the Meta Rules:

I.
All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. All Meta Rules are in effect whenever a game begins. Wherever there is a contradiction between any Meta Rules and any other rules, the Meta Rules shall govern. The Meta Rules consist of rules I-V.

II.
No changes will be made to the Meta Rules except by unanimous agreement of all players. No changes will be made to the Meta Rules by the agreement of fewer than five players.

III.
Each game shall begin with a written ruleset consisting of these Meta Rules and a set of Game Rules. If no game is in progress and no set of Game Rules have been proposed, the winner of the previous game shall have the right to propose such a set. If no such winner exists, or if said winner fails to propose such a set within a reasonable time, or if, after such a set is proposed, no game starts, any person with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account may propose a set of Game Rules.

IV.
Each game shall start with a written player list. The player list shall be drawn exclusively from persons with unbanned Mafiascum.net accounts.

V.
If a game has no players on the player list, the game may be terminated by any person with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #519 (isolation #137) » Mon May 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 515, Robotnick2 wrote:When we start the next one, could we please provide a provision for this kind of thing? It's somewhat anticlimactic.

Agreed. That was my mistake in writing the original ruleset.

In post 516, Feirei wrote:We should. Does ani start first in every game, or does the winner start...or does it go to the one after JDGA.

It depends on how JDGA writes the rules - I'd recommend he declare that he himself starts the next game and it proceed alphabetically from there.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #524 (isolation #138) » Mon May 28, 2012 5:46 pm

Post by Packbat »

re-/in, for the record.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #528 (isolation #139) » Wed May 30, 2012 2:59 pm

Post by Packbat »

If JDGA does not or cannot propose his revised ruleset by Friday, I will write one myself. I believe Rule III allows for that.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #531 (isolation #140) » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:46 am

Post by Packbat »

Spoiler: Packbat's Game 2 Rules Proposal
Immutable Rules


101. The game shall start at 11:59 p.m. UTC on Saturday, June 8 with an initial set of Game Rules consisting of Rules 101-118 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). Until the game starts, any eligible person may add or remove themself from the player list at will; after the game starts, the player list shall be fixed except where other rules permit its alteration.

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)


104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. Any player who has lost (by forfeiture or otherwise) shall be removed from the player list. No person may join the player list of a game from which they have been removed.

115. Any player whose action violates the rules shall lose and be removed from the player list. The action in question and all actions following it shall then be reversed.

116. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

117. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

118. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

Mutable Rules


201. Players shall alternate in alphabetical order by username, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, nor parts of turns be omitted, except by the specific action of a rule or by the removal of the player from the playerlist prior to their turn's completion. After such an event, the turn of the next player alphabetically shall begin immediately. All players begin with zero points. The first turn shall go to the player alphabetically following the last player to complete a turn in the game immediately prior.

202. A player's turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) adding a number of points to their score. The number of points added shall be calculated by subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer.
(This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)


Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change twenty-four (24) hours after being prodded, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list.
(This clause implicitly enforces Rule 111.)


203. Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to propose a rule-change and bring it to vote. When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.

204. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

205. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, first, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each, and second, the players who fail to explicitly vote on a proposal before close of voting shall lose 5 points and have their votes placed in favor.

206. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

207. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

208. Each player always has exactly one vote.

209. The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. No player's points may increase or decrease except as ordained by a rule.

210. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #533 (isolation #141) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:08 pm

Post by Packbat »

Reasonable - any other suggested changes?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #535 (isolation #142) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:24 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 534, Robotnick2 wrote:I'd quite like something to be thrown in there about replacements, but I fear that that would overstep the boundaries of a pregame ruleset.

Right - that should probably be decided democratically. So, I'll assume that signups are for this:

Spoiler: Packbat's Game 2 Rules Proposal, Revised
Immutable Rules


101. The game shall start at 11:59 p.m. UTC on Saturday, June 9 with an initial set of Game Rules consisting of Rules 101-118 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). Until the game starts, any eligible person may add or remove themself from the player list at will; after the game starts, the player list shall be fixed except where other rules permit its alteration.

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)


104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. Any player who has lost (by forfeiture or otherwise) shall be removed from the player list. No person may join the player list of a game from which they have been removed.

115. Any player whose action violates the rules shall lose and be removed from the player list. The action in question and all actions following it shall then be reversed.

116. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

117. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

118. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

Mutable Rules


201. Players shall alternate in alphabetical order by username, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, nor parts of turns be omitted, except by the specific action of a rule or by the removal of the player from the playerlist prior to their turn's completion. After such an event, the turn of the next player alphabetically shall begin immediately. All players begin with zero points. The first turn shall go to the player alphabetically following the last player to complete a turn in the game immediately prior.

202. A player's turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) adding a number of points to their score. The number of points added shall be calculated by subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer.
(This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)


Each player has forty-eight (48) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change forty-eight (48) hours after being prodded, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list.
(This clause implicitly enforces Rule 111.)


203. Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to propose a rule-change and bring it to vote. When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.

204. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

205. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, first, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each, and second, the players who fail to explicitly vote on a proposal before close of voting shall lose 5 points and have their votes placed in favor.

206. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

207. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

208. Each player always has exactly one vote.

209. The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. No player's points may increase or decrease except as ordained by a rule.

210. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.


Current Playerlist:

  • Feirei
  • Packbat
  • Robotnick2


Game Start: (expired on 2012-06-09 23:59:00)

Edited to reflect the fact that Saturday is June 9th, not June 8th.
Last edited by Packbat on Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #538 (isolation #143) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:47 pm

Post by Packbat »

Hm. So.

Game 2 Playerlist:


  • Feirei
  • Packbat
  • Robotnick2


Rule 301 Proposal Deadline: (expired on 2012-06-16 19:59:00)

As Feirei was the last player to complete a turn, Packbat shall start.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #539 (isolation #144) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:50 pm

Post by Packbat »

So, to start things off, comments on:

301. Any player may propose a rule-change while the previous player's rule-change is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, said rule-change shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.


Essentially what this does is allow either extra time for discussion of rule-changes
and
, should this extra time be unnecessary, rule-changes to go to vote more quickly.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #540 (isolation #145) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:51 pm

Post by Packbat »

Remember that unanimity is required for rule-passage.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #542 (isolation #146) » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:15 am

Post by Packbat »

Fair enough. No changes to the wording?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #544 (isolation #147) » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:59 am

Post by Packbat »

May as well take it another step, then:

301.
Any player may propose a rule-change whilst the rule change of the player immediately before them in the turn order is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, the most recent rule-change proposed thus shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #548 (isolation #148) » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:56 pm

Post by Packbat »

Sounds good - I'll go ahead and put it to a vote now, then.

301.
Any player may propose a rule-change whilst the rule change of the player immediately before them in the turn order is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, the most recent rule-change proposed thus shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.


VOTE: For

Votes:
  • Feirei: --
  • Packbat: For
  • Robotnick2: --
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #550 (isolation #149) » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:16 pm

Post by Packbat »

301.
Any player may propose a rule-change whilst the rule change of the player immediately before them in the turn order is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, the most recent rule-change proposed thus shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.

Votes:
  • Feirei: Aye
  • Packbat: Aye
  • Robotnick2: --
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #552 (isolation #150) » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:32 am

Post by Packbat »

Botnick, you're up.

(expired on 2012-06-23 19:59:00)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #553 (isolation #151) » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:36 am

Post by Packbat »

I believe also I get (301-291)*(3/3) = 10 points.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #554 (isolation #152) » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:25 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 545, Kcdaspot wrote:Hey make a rule for adding new players.

Id like in to this small soiree.. if that's how its spelled.

I would be inclined to support any reasonable rule allowing new players to join, if you haven't a better idea ready to go, Robotnick2.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #558 (isolation #153) » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:53 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 557, Kcdaspot wrote:I think putting the game on hold immedieatly everytime allows for some rather epic CHESSTROLLING.

Agreed - and I would propose an even simpler solution: don't postpone at all, ever. We're intelligent people - we can handle having two votes running at the same time, no problem. (And you may as well declare that the vote will run for one game week, too - give players the extra few days, and keep all the deadlines on Saturday night.)

Also - or rather, second - regarding turn order, I would favor the following phrasing, with or without the phrase in
red
:

the Entrant is immediately accepted into the game, and is placed in the turn queue in alphabetical order.
If this would give the Entrant a turn within the next three turns, the Entrant's first turn shall be skipped.
The Entrant shall start at 0 points.


Third: there should be a clause removing anyone who joins the game as a new player from the replacement queue.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #560 (isolation #154) » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:44 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 559, Kcdaspot wrote:Stop being right all the time packbat you make me think I won't stand a chance :[

Hey, did you see the result of the last game? I may be right all the time, but sometimes the right answer I come up with is "I just lost the game."
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #564 (isolation #155) » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:31 am

Post by Packbat »

Fourth: I wouldn't cite a rule number in the replacement rule - I'd just say, "players removed by voluntary forfeit". And also "or because of idleness", to cover Rule 202 removals.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #567 (isolation #156) » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:09 am

Post by Packbat »

strikethru
indicates removals,
underline
insertions.

302If, at any point, a
player with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account
person
not currently playing
but eligible to join
(referred herein as "the Entrant") should make clear that they wish to join the current game, a vote as to whether to allow acceptance into the game is immediately undertaken amongst all current players, using a simple majority voting method. This vote shall last no less than 1 game week from moderator recognition of the entry
.
If the vote should result in an aye result, the Entrant is immediately accepted into the game, and is placed in the turn queue in alphabetical order. The Entrant shall start at 0 points. If the vote should result in a nay result, the Entrant is not accepted into the game, and is forthwith barred from
applying again
joining the current game
.

In addition, a "replacements queue" shall be created upon the acceptance of this rule, with the purpose of replacing any player that should forfeit the game
,
either voluntarily or due to idleness. Any
player with an unbanned Mafiascum.net account
eligible person
may apply join this queue, and a vote similar as to the one described above shall be undertaken - if the result should be aye, the player is placed at the bottom of the queue; if nay, the player is not placed in the queue, and is barred from
reapplication
joining the current game
. If a player should forfeit the game, either voluntarily or due to idleness, then the first entrant in the queue shall be contacted by the moderator via PM
, with regards
to
confirm
their willingness to "take over" from the forfeited player. If they should prove willing, they are immediately accepted into the game, are placed in the turn order in alphabetical order, and assume the points total of the departing player; if not, the moderator shall then contact the second in the queue, and then the third, and so on, until a suitable entrant is found. Should the list of replacements be exhausted, then no replacement will be issued for the departing player. Furthermore, if
a player
an entrant
in the replacement queue should indicate that they wish to immediately join the game, rather than wait for a slot to become available, they will be removed from the replacement queue and join the game immediately, as above.

This rule supersedes and supplements Rule 201.


Not entirely sure that a Nay vote should be a permanent disqualification, either - I'd suggest "for two complete circuits of turns", instead.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #569 (isolation #157) » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:01 am

Post by Packbat »

That's fair - permanent disqualification is certainly not a dealbreaker for me.

Feirei? Any thoughts?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #571 (isolation #158) » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:14 pm

Post by Packbat »

Three games is unenforceable - remember, only the Meta Rules persist between games.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #574 (isolation #159) » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:35 am

Post by Packbat »

Looks good to me.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #577 (isolation #160) » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:40 pm

Post by Packbat »

VOTE: Aye
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #578 (isolation #161) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:31 am

Post by Packbat »

Bump. Also, remember to vote, Robotnick2.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #581 (isolation #162) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:21 pm

Post by Packbat »

Passed! I will edit the rules shortly; in the meanwhile, Feirei, you have the floor.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #584 (isolation #163) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:48 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 583, Kcdaspot wrote:
/in

VOTE: Admit

Admittance vote for Kcdaspot


  • Feirei - none yet
  • Packbat - Admit
  • Robotnick2 - none yet


Deadline: (expired on 2012-07-07 19:59:00)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #586 (isolation #164) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:48 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 585, Feirei wrote:Trying to word a proposal requiring only a simple majority (51% of votes or more) to pass a proposition, but I find myself unable to word it properly. Help?


Amend 204 to read: "A rule-change is adopted if and only if it receives support from a simple majority (greater than 50%) of eligible voters.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #587 (isolation #165) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:49 pm

Post by Packbat »

Also:

Admittance vote for Kcdaspot


  • Feirei - Admit
  • Packbat - Admit
  • Robotnick2 - none yet


Deadline: (expired on 2012-07-07 19:59:00)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #589 (isolation #166) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:55 pm

Post by Packbat »

...unless something happens to change our minds.

Don't sweat it - I'm sure Robotnick2 will vote soon. And comment on your proposal, soon.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #591 (isolation #167) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:23 am

Post by Packbat »

In post 590, jackofspades wrote:As per rule 302 I would like to make it clear that I wish to join the current game.

I have just registered with the forum, but I have read all of the posts in this thread, both game 1 and the current game.

I haven't played Nomic before but I am a law student and find this stuff really interesting.

P.S. Please vote to accept me :)

Interesting! Why try to join
this
game?

Admittance vote for Kcdaspot


  • Feirei - Admit
  • Packbat - Admit
  • Robotnick2 - none yet


Admittance vote for jackofspades


  • Feirei - none yet
  • Packbat - none yet
  • Robotnick2 - none yet


Deadline: (expired on 2012-07-07 19:59:00)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #595 (isolation #168) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:50 pm

Post by Packbat »

jackofspades wrote:
In post 591, Packbat wrote:
Interesting! Why try to join
this
game?


Well I was originally considering joining the Agora Nomic but after I started reading the ruleset I decided that their were just too many rules to get my head around.

...so I started reading Game 1 from this thread and I really enjoyed reading it and appreciated being able to read it in a forum-style. I also like how the players have played it so far. Even though there weren't too many developments in the last game, I like that everyone thought a lot about the impact of proposals before embarking on a set that would skew the game off into a completely different direction right from the start.


Cool. VOTE: Admit

Admittance vote for Kcdaspot


  • Feirei - Admit
  • Packbat - Admit
  • Robotnick2 - Admit


Kcdaspot has been added to the player list.

Admittance vote for jackofspades


  • Feirei - none yet
  • Packbat - Admit
  • Robotnick2 - Admit


Deadline: (expired on 2012-07-07 19:59:00)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #598 (isolation #169) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:44 pm

Post by Packbat »

I think a better approach might be through the Meta Rules - let the player win by paradox, but force the winner afterwards to patch the hole. I believe that, once we have five players, such a change could be effected through the ordinary rule-change method - it would simply fail unless the rule-change passed unanimously.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #600 (isolation #170) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:05 pm

Post by Packbat »

That's the only way I see
to
propose changes, in fact. The meta rules themselves don't include any rule-change mechanisms.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #603 (isolation #171) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:58 pm

Post by Packbat »

Rad.

Current Playerlist:


  • Feirei - 0 points
  • jackofspades - 0 points
  • Kcdaspot - 0 points
  • Packbat - 10 points
  • Robotnick2 - 11 points
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #612 (isolation #172) » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:30 pm

Post by Packbat »

I.E. you. Incidentally, there is Game 1 precedent for declaring that the expiration of the game week automatically put the proposal up to vote, but I don't know if it should be honored.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #646 (isolation #173) » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:12 pm

Post by Packbat »

Sorry about the radio silence - the huge interruption to the power interrupted my flow, and I'm having trouble getting it going again. Prod me tomorrow.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #648 (isolation #174) » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:45 am

Post by Packbat »

I'm sorry: what's the current player list?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #652 (isolation #175) » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:35 am

Post by Packbat »

Okay - I'm sorry, I have no mojo today. If anyone wants to update the Wiki, I will be quite grateful; otherwise, I'll take a crack at it when I can.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #657 (isolation #176) » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:27 pm

Post by Packbat »

Sorry - VOTE: Aye
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #660 (isolation #177) » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:08 am

Post by Packbat »

Right - JDGA should have been prodded. I'll do that now.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #661 (isolation #178) » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:19 pm

Post by Packbat »

JDGA has not picked up the prod within 24 hours. Kcdaspot, you're up.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #663 (isolation #179) » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:13 pm

Post by Packbat »

I know how that is. :/
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #668 (isolation #180) » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:46 am

Post by Packbat »

It's more intricate than I like. Also, there's already a penalty of 10 points for failed proposals - why not allow that penalty to grow for people who are past 50% of the winning score?

(Also: I don't like specifying rule numbers, as a rule. Replacing "the goal score dictated in (insert rule here)" with "the score required to win the game on points" or some such?)
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #671 (isolation #181) » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:44 am

Post by Packbat »

I would suggest amending 207 instead of making a new rule, but that's reasonable. Which way do fractions round?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #674 (isolation #182) » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:25 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 673, Kcdaspot wrote:where is everyone else? i want discussion.

Dunno - send them a PM, perhaps?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #676 (isolation #183) » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:18 pm

Post by Packbat »

I think it's reasonable, but - like I said - I think it should be an amendment, not a new rule.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #679 (isolation #184) » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:03 am

Post by Packbat »

I see it as a negative feedback loop. It extends the game by making it more difficult to approach the winning score on the strength of your rule-changes.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #684 (isolation #185) » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:21 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 671, Packbat wrote:I would suggest amending 207 instead of making a new rule[.]

That way all penalties for a failed resolution are in one rule.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #686 (isolation #186) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:14 am

Post by Packbat »

one eighth of the score he or she would have gotten if the rule had passed

...with what percentage of the vote? The minimum possible? One vote more than 50%, rounded down? Unanimous approval?

Edit: Sorry - I like the rule, but it's better to answer these questions in advance.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #690 (isolation #187) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:49 pm

Post by Packbat »

You don't need to specify Rule 202 (in fact, I wouldn't), but Rule 202 specifies an award of points that depends on the number of votes received in favor. What number of votes in favor are you assuming when you say "if the rule had passed"?
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #694 (isolation #188) » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:57 am

Post by Packbat »

Gaaah - I'd say at this point just drop the whole "minimum number of votes" thing and have just the extra point per 20 points over 50%.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #696 (isolation #189) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:50 am

Post by Packbat »

VOTE: Aye

Don't forget to vote yourself.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #701 (isolation #190) » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:17 am

Post by Packbat »

Deadline Saturday - jackofspades still needs to vote.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #704 (isolation #191) » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:49 am

Post by Packbat »

Proposal passes!
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #708 (isolation #192) » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:29 pm

Post by Packbat »

Oh, crap, I just looked at the wiki, and it's got two major problems:

1. The scores have not been updated.

2. Amendments receive the number of the amending proposal.

I just don't have the motivation to get it done before Friday, but it needs updating for jackofspades and KCDA's turns. I'll try to do the math and fix those as soon as possible.

That said, my proposal:

305.
Amend 203 to read:
Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to bring that turn's rule-changes to vote. They shall have the power to open voting on any rule-change at any time during their turn that is more than 48 hours after the first draft of said rule-change is proposed; they shall do so by making a post so declaring that specifies the exact text to be voted upon. If they do not bring any rule-change to vote in this fashion by the end of this allotted time, the latest rule-change draft posted during their turn shall be brought to vote if such exists; otherwise, their turn shall be skipped.

When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule-change. Said voting shall end before the expiration of the game week if and only if all eligible voters have voted on the rule-change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #710 (isolation #193) » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 am

Post by Packbat »

Unless the prod is more than 72 hours late, the turn will be skipped by Rule 202 before it is skipped by this one - and Rule 202 has a penalty for repeat skippers. The skipping text is only there for completeness.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #713 (isolation #194) » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:02 am

Post by Packbat »

They shall have the power to open voting on any rule-change at any time during their turn that is more than 48 hours after the first draft of said rule-change is proposed; [...]


That is, they
must
allow
at least
48 hours after they post a draft before they put the draft to vote, unless (and this requires the mod to be late with the prod) their first draft is within 48 hours of the end of the game week - in which case the game-week expiration pouts it to vote automatically.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #714 (isolation #195) » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:07 am

Post by Packbat »

Clarifying:

305.
Amend 203 to read:
Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to bring that turn's rule-changes to vote. They shall have the power to open voting on any rule-change at any time during their turn that is more than 48 hours after the first draft of said rule-change is proposed; they shall do so by making a post so declaring that specifies the exact text to be voted upon. If they do not bring any rule-change to vote in this fashion by the end of the game week, the latest rule-change draft posted during their turn shall be brought to vote if such exists; otherwise, their turn shall be skipped.

When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule-change. Said voting shall end before the expiration of the game week if and only if all eligible voters have voted on the rule-change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #717 (isolation #196) » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:03 pm

Post by Packbat »

In post 715, Robotnick2 wrote:Wonderful. No further suggestions from me :)

Also, I updated the wiki again. Kcda has 11 points, because 14 * .8 = 11.2 .

EDIT Actually, just spotted, you're proposal 306, not 305.

Good!

306.
Amend 203 to read:
Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to bring that turn's rule-changes to vote. They shall have the power to open voting on any rule-change at any time during their turn that is more than 48 hours after the first draft of said rule-change is proposed; they shall do so by making a post so declaring that specifies the exact text to be voted upon. If they do not bring any rule-change to vote in this fashion by the end of the game week, the latest rule-change draft posted during their turn shall be brought to vote if such exists; otherwise, their turn shall be skipped.

When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule-change. Said voting shall end before the expiration of the game week if and only if all eligible voters have voted on the rule-change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #720 (isolation #197) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:19 pm

Post by Packbat »

Okay - is now up for vote.

VOTE: Yea
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #724 (isolation #198) » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:31 pm

Post by Packbat »

The Bot
abides
remains.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
User avatar
Packbat
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Packbat
she, they, ze/zir
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2122
Joined: October 18, 2010
Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)

Post Post #727 (isolation #199) » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:05 pm

Post by Packbat »

I think Robotnick2 is next.
advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.
Locked

Return to “Sens-O-Tape Archive”