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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:11 am

Post by Sudo_Nym »

In post 222, hasdgfas wrote:
In post 221, Sudo_Nym wrote:I hated RotE. The Eldrazi cards were poorly thought out, in my opinion. I don't mind Annihilator, so much as the additional abilities that come on them.


I hated Annihilator. No fun at all. Level up was ok, but I preferred it on Figure of Destiny because of the flavor.


Annihilator never mattered. By the point in the game an Eldrazi got down and could stick, it was an auto-scoop anyway. The only real problem was the "secondary" abilities, because you got them on cast, rather than on entering the battlefield, which was horribly unbalanced in favor of ramp.
One time, back in 'nam, Sudo was set upon by an entire squadron of charlies. He challenged them all to a game of Pictionary, which he won resoundingly. The charlies were forced to not only surrender the skirmish, but also their world-famous chili recipe, which Sudo sold to Texas for a hefty profit. Sudo is a master of diplomacy.
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:32 am

Post by GreyICE »

In that case, if you have access to older zombies, things like Undead Warchief, Shepherd of Rot, Gempalm Polluter, and Unholy Grotto are amazing.

So, if you can, this should be potent without being a total weenie deck.

Lord, Zombies!
4 Gravecrawler
3 Festering Goblin
3 Shepherd of Rot
4 Withered Wretch
4 Lord of the Undead
3 Cemetary Reaper
2 Death Baron
4 Undead Warchief
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Infernal Caretaker

3 Call of the Grave
3 Oversold Cemetary

2 Unholy Grotto
21 Swamp
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:33 am

Post by GreyICE »

In post 225, Sudo_Nym wrote:
In post 222, hasdgfas wrote:
In post 221, Sudo_Nym wrote:I hated RotE. The Eldrazi cards were poorly thought out, in my opinion. I don't mind Annihilator, so much as the additional abilities that come on them.


I hated Annihilator. No fun at all. Level up was ok, but I preferred it on Figure of Destiny because of the flavor.


Annihilator never mattered. By the point in the game an Eldrazi got down and could stick, it was an auto-scoop anyway. The only real problem was the "secondary" abilities, because you got them on cast, rather than on entering the battlefield, which was horribly unbalanced in favor of ramp.

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No, it was not.
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:19 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

grey, no patriarch's bidding?
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:29 am

Post by GreyICE »

Oh man, Zombie bidding. And with Withered Wretch too!

Haha, you sold me right there. Flop the cemetaries for Biddings, that'd be awesome. I can't imagine, with that many lords, anyone would survive longer than a turn after a bidding.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:14 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

yeah, only inferior to goblin bidding because you don't haste. Though, I can't think of it, but isn't there a zombie "sacrifice a creature: target player loses 1 life?

That would make bidding the GG turn,
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:37 am

Post by bv310 »

Closest I can find is Golgari Rotwurm
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:56 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

yeah, that seems less than ideal.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:51 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

Before GreyICE wets himself, no, you're wrong: Vexing Devil is a bad card and won't see that much play.
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:55 am

Post by GreyICE »

Huh? It's terrible. It's a choice card, and not only that an awful one. In the early game doing 4 damage to your opponent is miserable, and in the late game your opponent can handle a 4/3. That stupid Arcane card that just did 3 damage to your opponent for R was better, and that card was terrible too.

Demon taskmaster could see some play, but I'm kinda on the fence. 4/3 for 3 isn't that under the curve, and there's so many good creatures.
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:57 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

ITT Greyice and I agree on something and the world ends.
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:22 am

Post by TheButtonmen »

Faithless looting boosts vexing enough it's not completely unusable.
Routine day with a dirt cheap brush
Then a week goes by and it goes untouched
Then two, then three, then a month
Then the rest of your life, you beat yourself up
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:30 am

Post by bv310 »

I like it for RDW, but it's got narrow applications for that.
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:43 am

Post by creampuffeater »

I think the devil is fine because in the deck its being played in, the options work themselves out. Even the arguments that late game a 4/3 are worthless isnt too bad as thats a risk you take when playing any form of cheap creature (I have never seen people complain that nacatl is terrible because it sucks on like turn 5). However, since its a choice card, it will never do the thing that you want it too, but the abilities seem good enough to warrant playing. Especially in an older format where burn was running lavaspike, this seems much better, even if its not as guarenteed on the damage.
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:20 am

Post by GreyICE »

No, it's MUCH worse than Lava Spike.

The thing is, on turn 1 you don't want to be playing Lava Spike. You want a friggin Jackal Pup more. Every turn your opponent can't deal with it, 2 damage. That can add up, especially if you're going first.

Therefore your opponent gives you the Lava Spike. Ooh, +1 damage. You're still not putting any pressure on him.

Later he realizes "Hey, I've got a real creature that can block that. Sure, throw out that 4/3." Or he just goes for its throat, or introduces it to Wrath, or sends it to Oblivion with a Ring, etc.

Same issue with Browbeat, only instead of more cards that can be more burn spells it's a creature that can't be anything other than a 4/3.

Interesting cards so far


Temporal Mastery - OBV
Thunderous Wrath - 5 damage is sexy. Very sexy. If UR Delver runs Temporal Mastery this will show up as at least a 2 of. Winning the game is nice.
Sigarda, Host of Herons - Awkward casting cost? Sure. But if there's decks that aren't running sweepers, this card becomes hax. Obviously miserable at the moment thanks to Black Sun's Zenith, but that card will rotate.
Arcane Melee - The interaction between this and flashback costs is kinda sexy. It needs something more to get going, and 5 is a lot, but obvious combo pieces should never be ignored.

That's literally it. Every other card except the white miracle card looks terrible. Angel of Jubilation might see some sideboard play in a mono white deck if a REALLY weird deck comes up. That's it.
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:03 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

Greyice, he's talking about the lavaspike.dec, the legacy deck that basically runs 15 lands and 45 burn spells. That deck does not run jackel pup, and neither does the legacy red deck win deck, for that matter...

Do you even play legacy?
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:12 am

Post by GreyICE »

Oh, so you think it's good in that deck, TSQ?

I haven't played legacy in ages. Still have a high tide deck, but I can't afford the dual lands, and without them the format kinda boils down to gobbos and not much else.
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:20 am

Post by creampuffeater »

I personally like browbeat, and if it cost less it would be completely playable. The problem with brow beat is that at 3 mana it often means thats your full turn, and in any form of RDW you cant waste a turn purely drawing cards. The difference here is the 1 cost.

Shea was right that I was thinking of Legacy burn or some form of RDW that wants to be insanely fast. I understand that theres tons of downside to the card, however the cost of 1 makes it seem good to me in the right deck.
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:22 am

Post by Sudo_Nym »

RDW is basically the only application for Vexing Devils, since it's the only deck that will be remotely happy to settle for just 4 damage. If you could redirect the damage to a creature, then I might see some other application for it. As is, it's meh.
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:50 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

In post 241, GreyICE wrote:Oh, so you think it's good in that deck, TSQ?

I haven't played legacy in ages. Still have a high tide deck, but I can't afford the dual lands, and without them the format kinda boils down to gobbos and not much else.

Goblins isn't a very good legacy deck anymore.

And it's as good in that deck as any other burn spell. Like, its a fringy deck, but this card is clearly playable in it. Probably cut the riftbolts or something for it.
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:51 am

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Any French readers here?
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:54 am

Post by PeregrineV »

I think Thunderous Wrath means no Lightning Bolt reprint in M13. :(
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:01 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

I think lightning bolt reprint was a mistake in the first place, so I'm not too sad about it.

But I also don't get the connection.
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:05 pm

Post by GreyICE »

I really don't think it is. One of the advantages of burn combo is that it's resistant to StP - Hellspark Elemental has haste.

Trading a burn spell for a creature that dies to StP is not a winning strategy.
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:11 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

I mean, game one you're taking a chance that they don't have STP, but I think the pay off is good enough, game 2-3 they probably side out stp since you literally only have one target. Also, I don't know what the number of decks that MD STP is anymore, but I suspect its not that high.
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