Mechanics (Gold and Phase System)

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Bub Bidderskins
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Post Post #50  (ISO)  » Tue May 15, 2012 11:51 am

I don't see any gain from making money weighted, but I see a ton of negatives. It's just not worth it.
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CooLDoG
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Post Post #51  (ISO)  » Tue May 15, 2012 4:31 pm

I like what bub and ispo (or what ever your name is, sorry :] ) are saying. Also 65 is really really damn old for that time.
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Post Post #52  (ISO)  » Tue May 15, 2012 5:34 pm

Okay, I've got an idea to balance people with different phases: potential.

The younger you start out, the more potential you have. That means that younger characters who start out with fewer/lower skills will gain more skills when they advance. For instance, a character that starts out as an adolescent might gain 6 skills per advancement, whereas an old coot might only gain 2 skills. This could act as a balancing mechanic to discourage people from making over-powered characters. It could look something like this:

<4 phases: 6 skills/advancement (NOT PER PHASE!)
5 phases: 5 skills
6 phases: 4 skills
7 phases: 3 skills
8 phases: 2 skills
>8 phases: 1 skill

For aging, if its 5 years per phase, then an 8 phase character would be 40 (or non-human equivalent), which is actually pretty old. We should probably hard-cap the number of starting phases at 10 or 12. If you character starts out 40 or older, then you must gain a negative, age-related attribute. For ever phase over 40, you have to either gain another attribute, or increase your existing one.

Another way to balance the phases is through fate points, young characters could start out with more fate points, whilst old characters won't start with any. Something like this:

4 or fewer phases: 3 points
5-6 phases: 2 points
7-8 phases: 1 point
>8 phases: 0 points

This way an old character could start out super-powerful, but wouldn't advance as fast and would have fewer fate points.
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inspiratieloos
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Post Post #53  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 1:22 am

(8*4-4*4)/(6-2)=4, I think you're overpowering young characters. I also don't think Fate points are able to compensate for less skills in the long term.
What's the problem with just doing as the rulebook suggests?

Magic does tend to make the average age higher for it's time (better facilities despite not having the technology to do such things without magic).

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Post Post #54  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 1:30 am

Hmm how would young characters be so overpowered.

Through phases you could just get what you want exactly. If you choose to have a younger character you don't have that ability or luxury as the case may be. Is there a way you can prove that younger characters will benefit more in the longrun than older ones?
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Post Post #55  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 1:39 am

Within 4 advancements they'll have equal skills, after that they'll be stronger, this is in addition to not suffering from old age. It's not like the mod can screw you over without being obvious about the fact that he hates you (as long as you're not actively being a dick).

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Post Post #56  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 7:36 am

In post 55, inspiratieloos wrote:Within 4 advancements they'll have equal skills, after that they'll be stronger, this is in addition to not suffering from old age. It's not like the mod can screw you over without being obvious about the fact that he hates you (as long as you're not actively being a dick).

Right, young people should have about the same power at 40 as a starting 40 year old.
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Post Post #57  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 12:10 pm

In post 56, CooLDoG wrote:
In post 55, inspiratieloos wrote:Within 4 advancements they'll have equal skills, after that they'll be stronger, this is in addition to not suffering from old age. It's not like the mod can screw you over without being obvious about the fact that he hates you (as long as you're not actively being a dick).

Right, young people should have about the same power at 40 as a starting 40 year old.

Advancement is much faster after initial creation, the game will (probably) be over way before the starting age 20 will be that old. On that note, most characters won't even reach an age where they'll have serious problems due to it (except for things like AniX who specifically wants to play a character past their prime).

Furthermore I think we must use Potential. (not Bub's)

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Post Post #58  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 1:47 pm

In post 53, inspiratieloos wrote:(8*4-4*4)/(6-2)=4, I think you're overpowering young characters. I also don't think Fate points are able to compensate for less skills in the long term.
What's the problem with just doing as the rulebook suggests?

Magic does tend to make the average age higher for it's time (better facilities despite not having the technology to do such things without magic).


Obviously we'll need to tweak the exact numbers, I was mainly using that as an example. With that in mind, I don't think we'll need to change the number of fate points.
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Post Post #59  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 1:49 pm

Also, what does the rulebook say about this?
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inspiratieloos
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Post Post #60  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 2:20 pm

In post 4, inspiratieloos wrote:@mods: Did you consider just using potential? pdf page 36

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Post Post #61  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 2:22 pm

Bub, that is good actually.
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Bub Bidderskins
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Post Post #62  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 3:54 pm

In post 60, inspiratieloos wrote:
In post 4, inspiratieloos wrote:@mods: Did you consider just using potential? pdf page 36


Hmm, that isn't bad, but the problem is that there's no reason to make a younger character since all the younger character can do is catch up. With that, its better to make an old character. You get the same number of skills, but you get them sooner.

The main problem with my system is that younger characters could become much more powerful than their older peers relatively quickly. 4 advancements until breaking even isn't that much, unless its takes a very long time to advance. Maybe we should make the gradient more gradual. If we do that, we could make fate points scale as well, because there still needs to be a non-roleplaying reason why I'd want a 4-phase character over a 5-phaser.

What do you feel is a reasonable break-even point? Tangential to that, how long will it take to advance?
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Bub Bidderskins
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Post Post #63  (ISO)  » Wed May 16, 2012 3:56 pm

One other thing, I think we should only really try to balance 4-8 phase characters. <4 phase and >8 phase probably should be underpowered, because it would be a bitch to balance them and anybody playing a kid or an old dude is probably doing it for RP reasons in anyway.
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inspiratieloos
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Post Post #64  (ISO)  » Thu May 17, 2012 1:34 am

>8 phase needs to make phases without any aspects/skills. Same as a 8 phase character but with age related problems.
<4 phase some kind of Child of Destiny, born at the stroke of midnight, under the right alignment of planets, from a virgin mother, while a dozen birds albino falcons velociraptor pilots flew over to the east, uses 6 points of potential in phase 1 to showcase their awesomeness, but in the end is a 15 year old.

Edit: Made it right
Edit2: Made it even better
Last edited by inspiratieloos on Thu May 17, 2012 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post Post #65  (ISO)  » Thu May 17, 2012 12:07 pm

A dozen albino falcons. GET IT RIGHT
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Post Post #66  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 7:41 am

In post 64, inspiratieloos wrote:>8 phase needs to make phases without any aspects/skills. Same as a 8 phase character but with age related problems.
<4 phase some kind of Child of Destiny, born at the stroke of midnight, under the right alignment of planets, from a virgin mother, while a dozen birds albino falcons velociraptor pilots flew over to the east, uses 6 points of potential in phase 1 to showcase their awesomeness, but in the end is a 15 year old.

Edit: Made it right
Edit2: Made it even better

Can I really do that?
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Post Post #67  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 2:25 pm

You can in the original FATE rules (except for the velocirapors, unless it's possible within the setting). The more than 8 phases isn't in the original rules afaik, but I'm pretty sure you're allowed to make phases longer, which has the same effect.

There are more options of course, you could also play a normal 15 year old (3 aspects) and keep your potential then spend it during the game itself etc. etc.

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Post Post #68  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 3:02 pm

Hmm... ok lets start narrowing things down a bit. I am hoping something can be agreed on by tomorrow night.

As requested, I will have a list of basic items to present tomorrow as well.
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Post Post #69  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 3:06 pm

Okay, obviously I'm for a 8-phase-5-year-per-phase-with-potential-and-mod-determined-gold system.

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Post Post #70  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 3:08 pm

From what I understand, that system works fine so long as the Moderator has a good grasp of how much gold would be needed during the game based on expenses. Hopefully I will not be the only Mod when the time comes (Lord_Mhork).
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Post Post #71  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 3:23 pm

1. Determine income class of the person delivering the good/service.
2. Determine how much money said person earns per year.
3. Determine profit margin person has on good/service.
4. Determine price.

You really need to determine an arbitrary baseline for what a someone earns and work from that, in my example last page I took a journeyman swordsmith who earns 500 gold/year to put the price of a high class sword at 40 gold. Bub pointed out that 500 gold/year makes a single gold piece too valuable to be easily used so the numbers in that example are probably not very useful (the method is imo).

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Post Post #72  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 3:54 pm

Okay, about the potential, when are the extra skills of younger people applied? If they are applied during character creation then there's no real non RP difference between a 4-phase character and an 8-phaser, correct?
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Post Post #73  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 4:03 pm

Correct (if the 4 phaser decides to use all his potential during character creation), the differences are all in the back-story (how did a 20 year old gain the same skills as someone twice his age? Will he be taken seriously? etc.).

This is also where the Fate points/phase comes from, as with an older character you have probably put more thought into the history of your character.

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Post Post #74  (ISO)  » Fri May 18, 2012 4:07 pm

Okay, that sounds like the best plan. It's simple and effective.

As far as the gold is concerned. I think we should set the average working-class citizen's income at 125 gold per day. Figuring 5-day work weeks, that makes the yearly income 32,500, which is almost exactly the median individual's income in the United States. Essentially, this makes 1 gold = 1 US dollar. This will make it easy for the mods to come up with reasonable prices, especially since they're both from America.
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