Mini 352- Saints and Sinners Mafia - Abandoned

[al_kohaulec]

w00t!

Vote: MoS

for not confirming.

[al_kohaulec]

vote: MoS

obv scum

OMG! He's bandwagonning!

Unvote

Vote: MoS

And when is that MastermindofSin ever going to confirm? He's taking forever...

unvote

As for the double lynch, I'd say day 2 or 3. If we wait too long, the bishop might die, if we do it too early, it'll most likely result in two dead townies. I'd say wait until we have 2 suspicious players, but most likely on day 2 or 3 we do it. If we're at endgame, have 4 alive, then we should do it then.


(Or do it when we have 3 alive, double lynch FTW!)

[al_kohaulec]

Hmm... to make toki squirm, or yellow squirm...

Vote: toki

I don't remember the reason for making yellow squirm. Besides, up until ibby's vote two posts ago, toki didn't have any votes.

@Kelly, I liked your old avatar better... oh well.

[al_kohaulec]

(Or do it when we have 3 alive, double lynch FTW!)

Heh...well, no, that dosn't work. Because by the time you'd get a chance for the second lynch, there'd only be two people left alive, and one would be scum.

lol, ya it was a joke. I was just wondering what it would be like if we had two players left and it was technically day. Imagine the conversation.

"so... what do we do?"

"..."



Kelly, I didn't understand your mention of 'providing fake roleclaims' or whatever. If your willing to explain (I'm guessing some joke) could you? Also, he shouldn't get scared if he gets a lot of votes, he just needs to be honest, work his way out of it. I can understand if he's just 'that kind of person,' but he shouldn't get scared, so hopefully that won't happen.

[al_kohaulec]

This isn't too different from my scumchat play, is it?

I wouldn't know, the only time I remember seeing you in there is when you modded that game, so I don't know what your scumchat play is like.

[al_kohaulec]

I got Ibby, alko, Bacde, and Pie on tokiyoh.

unvote

dang, I thought I was on the other bandwagon. GJ Kelly .

However, if he doesn't really say anything other than "I don't mind the bandwagon" I don't think I'll be taking my vote off anytime soon...

[al_kohaulec]

unvote
vote: kelly

For now I don't see a better candidate.

[al_kohaulec]

I didn't think it was pointless...

...but you're not on it, either. I've got to say your behavior hasn't made much sense to me so far this game.

And her odd behavior is the main reason for my vote on her.

[al_kohaulec]

I didn't think it was pointless...

...but you're not on it, either. I've got to say your behavior hasn't made much sense to me so far this game.

I think it's pretty clear I had no problem with this bandwagon.

I don't think tokiyoh's responses have been that great. He's a bit defensive.

I'm a little concerned that I've made myself an easy target. I think I've been helpful, though.

Ibby, you should be like me and

vote: MOS

if you want off of tokiyoh. MOS is supposed to have told us who the scum are by now.

...

I still don't get it. If you really thought tokiyoh's reaction was over-defensive and suspicious, why weren't you voting for him? Why aren't you voting for him now? Why push the bandwagon but not join it on day 1? And why support another bandwagon now? Why MOS, anyway?

Regarding Kelly, she said he was a little defensive, and she didn't say he was suspicious, but just that his responses weren't all that great. It is suspicious that she didn't vote for the bandwagon she was making, but she did post right after the vote count saying she was about to vote him, but he had what? 5 votes? This is still suspicious of her that she didn't vote him earlier on, but that's a good reason not to vote him at that point. You don't want to quicklynch somebody D1 before we even get into serious discussion.

You later comment still on her flip flopping between her saying he's overdefensive and underdefensive and such, but I'm not seeing where these discrepencies are at, and that's making you look suspicious in my eyes.

[al_kohaulec]

but she did post right after the vote count saying she was about to vote him, but he had what? 5 votes?

This was referring to MOS, not tokiyoh. The mod deleted a post saying that MOS was replaced.

oh ok, that makes sense. So you had no intention of ever voting for tok?

[al_kohaulec]

I've had some time to think about it, and I'm going to

unvote: Kelly

My thoughts are that at the point toki was at, he'd be an easy D1 'accidental' quick bandwagon lynch, and as such, if Kelly was mafia, I couldn't see her not voting him unless if Toki was mafia with her.

Basically what I'm saying is that right now (but let it be known there is still very little evidence to go off of) I believe Kelly to be most likely town, and if she is mafia, then I think Toki is mafia with her, but I'm leaning towards town for Kelly.

[al_kohaulec]

Now mike - do you think strange play and scummy play are the same thing? In what way do you think toki and alko are trying to confuse us?

It's only a small theory. Kelly, al_kohualec and Tokiyoh have been voted on each other, and now, they don't suspect each other. I will bear this hypothesis in mind.

Ah, strange play and scummy play are not the same thing
But kelly's behaviour are strange and scummy, I think.

Ok, I was wondering what your reasoning was, and that makes sense. In my defense however, not that I think one is really necessary but, my vote for Tokiyoh was a bandwagon vote for D1 to help discussion, which we're getting now (yay), and my vote on Kelly was because her behavior was very odd. Looking over it it still looks very odd, but when I was away from the game for a while, I thought about the way she played, and I posted in a previous post reasoning why I thought she may be town. That is why I unvoted her.

[al_kohaulec]

I'm getting a protown vibe from Kelly today. I don't really see how she's acting that strange, but maybe I just missed it.

I was feeling that Kelly was protown also, but she has been acting strange, and it's weird that you haven't noticed any of it. For a summary, some of the things she did were get a bandwagon on Toki, and never voting him herself. She also talked a lot about giving him a 'fake claim' to use, I guess to have him 'slip up as scum' or something. And there were I some other things she did that were weird too.

As for Kelly being in scumchat, she is there often enough. However, I rarely equate someone's scumchat play to forum play. There's a few cases I might, or certain tells that carry over on certain people.

That would make this game quicker then it needs to be and probally leave us with a huge lack of townies no way we would get that lucky in the begining

No, it would slow the game down to have more deaths due to lynches than nightkills. Better for us to try killing people than to let mafia make their informed kills, yeah?

How on earth would two lynches a day plus a nightkill slow the game down? That would lead us into less players quickier which imho is never good.

No it wouldn't. We would discuss each lynch. Discussing and making a lynch takes a lot more time than a night phase. It gives us more information, too.

Someone needs to back me up on this. I can't believe this is controversial.

Ok, I'm not sure but I think what she means by slowing down the game is that we will be discussing twice as many lynches as we would normally. So it would take twice as long to go through each day, thus making the game longer. The reasoning for making the game go faster with two lynches everyday is that we lose players 1.5 times as fast as normal, resulting in a higher fatality rate. I don't know that I'd agree with doing 2 lynches everyday if we were able to, but I probably would agree to doing it more than once to lynch more suspicious players.

[al_kohaulec]

Hmm... I just looked up all the posts by yellowbounder, and his first post was a random vote for Bacde, a typical day one start.

His second post is responding to Bacde wanting a bandwagon on him, and he mostly just asks when has he ever squirmed. And then he also mentions that he's not sure about the toki bandawagon.

His third post is like what's been said before, he pulls reasoning from every other player who posted before him about Kelly and puts it together weakly, and uses it to join the Kelly bandwagon.

vote: yellowbounder

It might be good for you if you start defending yourself...

[al_kohaulec]

I don't know, I've been waiting for him for a while.

[al_kohaulec]

I'm pretty ok with yellowbounder's response actually.

unvote, vote: ibaesha

I was gonna wonder what post, because I haven't seen any yet, but I see it was just a mistake.

But do you have any special reason for the vote on Iba?

[al_kohaulec]

If you make it the very last thing you do is claim, then even after the claim, there's too strong a chance that they'll still be lynched. I'd prefer to have a phanton one from Hammmah vote rather than waiting until they're one away with multiple players ready to pull the trigger.

[al_kohaulec]

Well, someone could say "I don't believe that desperate, last-minute claim. Vote: Guy with power role."

Are you joking? They would get slaughtered the following day if they did that without waiting for counterclaims etc.

The problem is, like nonny said, if said player is scum, they might be willing to sacrifice themselves to remove the power role.

Also, if said person is townie, there's really not much they can do to avoid their own lynch and we'll be down an extra townie.

So regardless of the alignment of the player who made the final vote, they could simply say "I don't believe the claim, HAMMAH!"

[al_kohaulec]

That is true Iba, but even then, if the Bishop vetos a lynch, then we have a no lynch.

[al_kohaulec]

Ok, I missed this for almost a week, but on recent topics...

I don't think in this game we should push for players to claim, especially this early. We can potentially have claims of Bishop, Angel, Archangel, and townie. I'd rather not reveal any of our power roles early, and a townie claim won't help us much. It'll also shrink the pool of threatening players for the mafia to hit.

Attacking multiple players in a single post is good, it shows that you are looking at multiple players, and not too focused on just one. If that one person turns out to be the wrong path to go, then there's still other players who still need to defend themselves.

As for the bishop double lynch, from the way the role is formatted, it sounds like it's lynch, reveal, lynch, but I'm not too sure.

[al_kohaulec]

What's Yellow at? 5 votes? If it's any less, I'll place my vote for him, for now I'd like to request a mod prod, and possibly replacement of yellow.

[al_kohaulec]

Ibby I have not found scummy at all, and her above post is a good post that you should all read (I haven't gotten to the part about Pie yet, though). I haven't been thinking about the possibility of Kelly being a devil, I am more inclined to think what I mentioned earlier in that I think Toki is probably a sinner if Kelly is, but I had my doubts about Kelly being a sinner. But now I need to think over the possibility of Kelly being the devil, because if she alerted her scummates to being the devil, she could slide hints to them when she found the angel/archangel without us knowing. I'm still leaning more towards my theory, but I'm going to think of Ibby's perception.

[al_kohaulec]

I'd like to say that even though trying to lynch an obviously scummy scummate doesn't necessarily show you to be protown, it does tend to have a much better spotlight for the first player to start pointing it out and pushing the fact that said player looked scummy.

Like I've been saying, I don't think Ibby is scum, and although I think Kelly might be, since I should have a little more time to focus on this game, I might try to work under the assumption that she isn't, and look at who has been attacking her and/or Ibby. If time allows, I'll try to look at scenarios with Kelly as scum, but for now I'm leaning towards neitehr being scummy.

[al_kohaulec]

I'd like to say that even though trying to lynch an obviously scummy scummate doesn't necessarily show you to be protown, it does tend to have a much better spotlight for the first player to start pointing it out and pushing the fact that said player looked scummy.

Like I've been saying, I don't think Ibby is scum, and although I think Kelly might be, since I should have a little more time to focus on this game, I might try to work under the assumption that she isn't, and look at who has been attacking her and/or Ibby. If time allows, I'll try to look at scenarios with Kelly as scum, but for now I'm leaning towards neitehr being scummy.

[al_kohaulec]

Of course not Nonny. You get no break.

LYNCH HER!!!

ok, seriously now.

Mike, why do you bring up the double lynch? Haven't we already established that it'd probably be best to use on D2 or 3?

[al_kohaulec]

I'd agree that lynching the devil doesn't show alignment eithetr way. Sinners know the devil's identity just as well as the town does.The sinners may try to get the devil lynched because they see him as an easy lynch target, and be thinking they're hitting a townie. Or another possibility is when it becomes fairly obvious that the devil is probably the devil, and the majority of the town thinks that, then they'd probably be voting him to not look like a sinner. It won't necessarily make them look like town by voting him, but it would make them look like a sinner if they didn't.

[al_kohaulec]

UT, you explained your reasoning for Kae/Bacde and Kelly, but what about me, who you placed above Kelly?


And I pointed that argument out to basically say how a devil lynch wouldn't necessarily tell us much or anything about a player's alignment. I wasn't thinking about using it as an argument for/against players later, because for the most part IMO, I think it'd come down to more of how the player's decided to vote for the devil rather than wether or not they tried to lynch him. In other words, we'd be looking at their voting behavior the same way as if they were voting any other townie.

[al_kohaulec]

Any special reason why ubertimmy should claim instead of Kelly?

I believe I said this before, and Kelly is saying it now. I don't think we should bandwagon people and then push for a claim. For the most part we'll get townie, cop, doc, and maybe a bishop claim. Most of the claims will be townie, and if we decide not to lynch somebody for claiming townie, then the wagon claim is going to be only harmful to the town. If we do lynch them still, then we're not exactly helping the town, but not hurting it as much. The harmful part of this is that we'll out our power roles since we're pushing for a claim so much.

What I'd much rather prefer is that when we find somebody scummy, we vote for them like we normally do. That player should claim if they are a power role and are close to a lynch as to avoid a lynch, otherwise we should just proceed with lynching them. This probably won't be much different than forcing a claim and lynching them still if they claim townie though.

[al_kohaulec]

Sup d0ods

'sup.

FoS: Mike

No I'm not saying which one.



ok, I finished catching up on my games, so I'll try to reread at least part of this thread tonight. Partly to refresh my memory on why to be suspicious of certain people, and also to see if I catch anything new. I think I might also look at voting behaviors. Hopefully I'll post something tonight.

[al_kohaulec]

I will observe this bandwagon as a neutral party.

This was a quote at the beginning of the toki wagon, for all those suspicious of her for seemingly wanting the wagon, and not actually joining it.


Reviewing the thread, only partially though, kinda busy and tired, Tokiyoh hasn't done anything suspiciuos in my eyes, and if anything, he's looked townie to me. Yellowbounder has that one unexplained vote that I don't necessarily agree with it being a scumtell from him. Ibby actually did seem more like the starter of the toki wagon then Kelly (though I guess my second vote didnt' help any). So Ibby could be scum, but I'm not sure, it could swing either way. Kelly seemed to want to remain neutral in her stance on Toki. Looking back, her posts did seem a bit more jokingly, but still a little strange. I have my doubts that she's a sinner.

My last person I'll post on is Bacde/Kae. He wanted to get yellow to 'squirm' in the beginning, and then with little convincing, easily switched over to the Toki wagon. I'll have to grab more reasoning and proof from other parts of the thread too, but for now:

unvote:
vote: Kae

[al_kohaulec]

Just a note, I keep all of my notes in Microsoft Word, which makes it much easier for me to keep myself updated in games. I recently tried to update to a newer version of Microsoft Office for my mom's sake, but due to difficulties of that, I now have an overwritten older version, and a newer version I can't use because the CD key isn't working. This is going to make it more difficult for me to keep track of everything like I usually do. Just an FYI, not that anybody would care.

[al_kohaulec]

when is the deadline? Or do we even have one? I really can't remember

[al_kohaulec]

Well, I already posted my reasoning why i believe Kelly to be town.

I'd rather not vote for UT just to save Kelly though, because I'm not sure of UT being scum either.

Right now Kae is the only one I think is probably scum.

[al_kohaulec]

Deadline, huh? Sounds unfortunate.

Anyway, I've liked Ibby's play thus far. On the other hand, kae(bacde) and Al are pretty high on my suspicions list.

I don't like how Al warned UT(yb) to defend himself. Feels like scum warning another. Aside from that, I don't have too much to persuade anyone to vote Al. But that doesn't stop me from believing that he is scum. At least, nothing that wouldn't be immediately written off as petty and irrelevent, or just being oversensitive.

Sorry about posting so meagerly. I pretty much skimmed everything. If it boils down to deadline, I'm voting UT or kae over Kelly.

My only thoughts here are:
So your believe that me and UT are scum together? And I'm warning him. I think the only time, if I ever did, warn him was when yb wasn't posting, and was getting a bandwagon. I wanted a defense because if he didn't provide one, we could end up with a dead townie. Sure he could've been a sinner, I don't know, but I wanted him to defend himself in some way so we could look at him more. The only thing I remember when referring to UT was asking him why he had me so high on his suspicion list, because he never gave any reasons.

[al_kohaulec]

I can't remember on UT off the top of my head, but I believe a lot of it is "You can't ignore a past player's scummy actions just because they've been replaced" which I agree with, but I also don't find yb as scummy as others do. I think the other thing is people were looking good at his first post, and thinking his other posts weren't very good.

And apparently I need to read up on Pie and some of his arguments.

[al_kohaulec]

PP IX, perhaps we could get a prod on Kae before the deadline, so hopefully he'll at least say something before he dies.


Kae, now is a good time to give the bishop any reason to let you live, this is your last chance.

The very least you could do, is say any thoughts on who you think looks scummy/pro-town and reasons why so we can look at it later.

Anything helps.

[al_kohaulec]

First off, sorry, for some reason I wasn't getting emails about this thread even though its on my watched list. Rosso's prod was quite the wake up call..

I can easily believe this, I stopped receiving emails from nearly ALL of my threads, so now I have to resort to coming here manually and clicking on "Watched Topics," and checking every thread from there. It can be very irritating.

[al_kohaulec]

I believe Kae that he's town, and I think Iba made the right decision.

The I too, like Kelly, find it interesting that UT still claims he doesn't believe Kae.

Any particular reason for this UT?

[al_kohaulec]

An ubertimmy lynch looks comparably good to a Patrick lynch to me presently. The thing, though, is that our power roles could also happen to not know what the PM looks like.

I'm agreeing with a UT lynch, as it seems the only people who wouldn't know about how a flavor role is formed would be a power role or scum, and I seriously doubt UT as a power role, but I want to hear from him first.

I seemed to have either missed or forgotten the reasons for Patrick though, why is a Pat lynch looking good to you?

[al_kohaulec]

The only think I'm worried about is that he might claim doc or something just to try and out our doc, as he has nothing to lose at this point and won't be able to claim townie.

For this reason I suggest we actually discuss his claim, regardless of what he claims, before we hear any possible counterclaims.

[al_kohaulec]

As far as the modkilling issue goes, I don't necessarily agree with kae not being modkilled either, but that doesn't make him scum. TBH though, it's hard to read what he wrote as a "paraphrase" of his "real role" which gives in to some skepticicsm, but overall I'm more inclined to believe his claim.

[al_kohaulec]

Now as I've been saying, I'm annoyed that Kae wasn't modkilled for that, IMO it was too much, whether a fake claim or real one, but I do believe he's town after that whole fiasco, and so I'm not going to lynch him out of frustration that the mod didn't do it.

Kelly I still believe is town, I might have to do somewhat of a PBPA to try to show my point to the town, I gave a small analysis earlier, but people either didn't notice, or are disregarding it.

UT, for reasons I've already stated, I find suspicious for his constant attack of Kae, as well as the more recent Mikanoff.

Vote: UberTimmy

[al_kohaulec]

I think kaebamf is scum, so he hasn't already modkilled. But if he was really townie, he deserve to be modkilled too.

So you're saying that either way, you want me lynched town or not? That was extremely scummy.

FoS:Mikanoff

There's an important thing to remember Mik, you may not think Kae is town, but I believe he is, and it's mostly due to the fact (yes this is metagaming, and I also don't like how this came to be, but) that he knew how a townie PM was put together and that no townie came out and said "That's not how a PM is written, it's a fake," I find it likely he's town.

Now you can lynch him because you think he should be dead anyways, but then after another nightkill, tomorrow we'll have 3 sinners, 1 devil, and 6 town aligned players. Essentially we'll be putting ourselves at lylo just because you believed that a townie should've been modkilled for something.

And your attacks on Kae like this is what makes both you and UT so suspicious in not only my eyes, but the eyes of many others in this town as well.

[al_kohaulec]

I really do not understand the suspicions of alko.

Do you mean my suspicions on others, or suspicions of others towards me? From your latter posts, I'm assuming you mean you don't understand other's suspicions towards me, but I just want clarification.

Doesn't everyone know how a townie pm is put together?

No I believe only townies would.

Similarly alko, a mislynch on me would cause the same thing. But you don't seem to care about that, do you?

Any mislynch has the same result, Kae is IMO much more likely to be town than you. And my suspicions on you are for how you're attacking Kae so much, when I see him as so likely pro-town.

But I'm glad you're at least looking in other directions for scum.

[al_kohaulec]

I don't feel like going after Kelly. Is kae or Al close to being lynched?

Hmm... interesting.
Why do you think Kelly is likely town, and why do you think me and kae are scum? More importantly, do you think we could both be scum together?

[al_kohaulec]

I have to guess that scum thought she was unlynchable, in any case.

Could you please explain your reasoning for this?

Personally I had a feeling of Ibby either being something other than a vanilla townie. I was leaning towards town aligned but I wasn't too sure. The point of this is that the mafia probably picked up whatever tell I saw too. The bishop was not what I expected from her though.

[al_kohaulec]

Wait a sec. You said before you thought the modkilling should occur argument was bullcrap, so why are you thinking Kaebamf is scum?

I see he already replied to this, but yes the modkilling issue is totally irrelevant to whether somebody is scum or not.

MBF, If Kae doesn turn up to be scum, do you think I'd be scum with Kae? Why?

[al_kohaulec]

MBF, If Kae doesn turn up to be scum, do you think I'd be scum with Kae? Why?

No, because Kae would be proven innocent, and therefore could not be your scum partner.

I find this a very odd question to ask. Are you saying that Kae IS your scum partner, but will turn up as an "innocent townie" if lynched?

Ya, that's a typo. It should read:

"If Kae turns up as a sinner, do you think I'd be a sinner with him?" I ask that because you have us both as your favorites for lynching.

As far as your willingness to accept a UT lynch, you're saying he could be scum, so you'd be happy lynching him. As somebody else pointed out, that leaves you happy lynching nearly anybody. That makes it a lot easier for you to either if you're town, bandwagon with the mafia, and if you're mafia, get anybody lynched for no reason of your own. You should be trying to lynch the ones you think are more likely to be scum because based on your opinion of the players, it'd make sense that the more suspicious ones are more likely to be scum.

That's just my two cents, I don't care if I get a "blah blah blah" post back or not, but your play today seems scummy to me and you seem to be happy with lynching almost anybody.

unvote
Vote: MBF

UT is still high on my scummy list, but MBF is looking even scummier right now.

[al_kohaulec]

missed both the last post and the last page. Go alko.

Alko and kelly have defended each other pretty much most of the game. Kelly and alko pushed a kaebamf lynch yesterday but then he immediately claimed townie and they laid off him.

I was questioning it at first, I wasn't sure about it, and at first didn't believe him for specific reasons. But later I looked at it a little bit more and started believing his claim more. That's the main reason I laid off him.

Then recently alko asks this

MBF, If Kae doesn turn up to be scum, do you think I'd be scum with Kae? Why?

Which I can see as a scum testing to see how well a bus throw would work.

First of all, I asked that because MBF had me, Kelly, and Kae all on his list of players he'd be in favor of lynching. I wanted to know if he thought me and Kae could be scum together, and I'll explain why after he answers that.

Secondly, if we were scum together, after that huge turnaround I did from saying "Kae is suspicious" to "I think Kae is town," do you really think I could get away with busing and not getting any suspicion for suddenly attacking him for being scum out of nowhere and being right? BTW, that's a rhetorical question.



And it does seem the top reason for me looking scummy is that I protected Kelly. I admit I could see us as scum together, but if Kelly isn't scum, is there any reason to be suspicious of me?

[al_kohaulec]

It's difficult because they are ongoing games. I just feel like I've hardly noticed he's here alot of the time. Alot of his posts I can see why a scum player would make them but not so much a town player. It's difficult to explain. If you're not seeing it then I really don't think I'll be able to persuade you.

Ya, it's hard to discuss the ongoing games, but I dunno if you've checked any of my past games or not for info. I have a link to all the games I've played in in my sig (it's mostly updated).

As for hardly being here, I've been really busy with college this week, and for that I've been letting one and a half weeks of website updates pile up, so I have a lot of that to do. I actually start college monday, and have preparation to do this weekend, so ya, I'm pretty busy when it comes to being on the boards.

[al_kohaulec]

Hmm.

I just find it highly interesting that his main reason for suspecting me was claimed flavor...then he goes and claims in the same manner. The claim is believeable sure, but I don't think I will be removing my vote just yet. I'm agreeing with kelly for the most part.

Mike's behavior is downright impossible for me to read as of now...but IGMEOY

yes, the whole stuation with UT and his reasoning for being against Kae, and then claiming townie in that way, makes it very suspicious. I don't really have time to analyze it right now, but it's something to look into. And after kae's claim, I don't see any future vanilla townie claims as believable. For instance, this is not a true claim:


I am [name], a vanilla townie. I am the town blacksmith, and I just want all this trouble to end so I can return to my quiet simple life. I win when all the sinners are dead.

[al_kohaulec]

They both look the same to me, just paraphrased slightly differently.

I am Konrad Breur,

Vanilla Townie

I am the town brewer

that just wants the trouble to stop so i can return to my normal life.

I win when all the SINNERS are dead.

I'm reinhard studebaker

,

pastry chef and

vanilla townie

.

there are some horrible things i want to stop happening here, so i can return to the quiet life i had.

Name

Role

Occupation

Flavor saying they want to return to their normal life.

Win condition (non existant in UT's claim)

So they are the same in paraphrasing, it's just rewritten differently. This is easily done. (And others will be better at it then me.)

[al_kohaulec]

I got your 'solid case' right here.

t(=_=t)

A case has been requested from me for so long now, and yet nobody even tries to provide a case against me short of "He's defending Kelly."

[al_kohaulec]

So you're saying you don't like to trust your gut, and now you're really going out on a limb wanting to lynch me based on gut?

[al_kohaulec]

Could we get a side of vote count with that deadline? It's probably cold and stale by now, but just to have one on the new page.

[al_kohaulec]

Yes, I know I'm dead.

I hope the game isn't abandoned

Like Kelly said, finding a replacement mod for this will be easy to do, it's an open role game so that won't be difficult. I don't know when Rosso plans on returning, but I am willing, if I'm able to, to help out as temporary mod should we need one before Rosso returns.

[al_kohaulec]

I

could

be a kindly person, if players are willing to continue. I remember Rosso telling me what everybody was, I just have to remember it all.

[al_kohaulec]

EBWOP: Then again, I

am

the devil.

[al_kohaulec]

2. kaebamf replacing Bacde
4. Kelly Chen
5. Mastermind of Sin
6. mikanoff
8. Patrick
9. Pie_is_good
10. tokiyoh
11. ubertimmy replacing yellowbounder
12. Yosarian2

I don't know if this list is correct or not, if somebody has an updated list, that'd be good to post.

It looks like Kelly and Pat still want to play, and MBF is dead, but still posting here... Is there anybody else who still wants to play this? It's not worth continuing if Kelly and Pat are the only two.

[al_kohaulec]

Patrick - Wants to play
Kelly Chen - Wants to play
Mikeburnfire - ???
Yosarian - doesn't care either way.
MoS - About to be lynched
Kain - Gone
Mikanoff - Gone
Kaebamf - Gone
Pie is good - apparently doesn't want to play


If we continue with the game, it looks like we'll need four replacements for players alone. The game has been stagnant for a while now, because of Rosso disappearing, I personally think it's best if we dropped the game and had players in here help fill up other games that are continuing and need replacements.

[al_kohaulec]

But the setup for this was really fun, and I'd like to see it hosted again sometime.

[al_kohaulec]

I'm looking forward to it kelly , I really am.

[al_kohaulec]

ooh yay, it's dead, so I can like discuss my strategy and stuff now right?

[al_kohaulec]

5. Mastermind of Sin
6. mikanoff
7. mikeburnfire replacing nonny
9. Pie_is_good
11. ubertimmy replacing yellowbounder
12. Yosarian2

Let's see here, I remember guessing Pat was a power role, Kelly and Toki are townies, I think ubertimmy was the cop. mikanoff I think was townie. I believe MoS and Yos were scum. I can't remember between Pie and MBF on who was town/scum. I could very well be wrong on this though.

-- wait, maybe UT was a regular townie... can't remember ---


Anyways, my strategy seemed pretty good, and it was only when I was playing it out in my head when I realized how threatening the bishop really was to my cause. Essentially I'd be trying to look protown and pass off tells and hints that I'm the cop, which I made a little too obvious at some points. As soon as I found a cop/doctor role, I would claim the cop and try to get that player lynched for being scum. If I happened to get the doctor, and then counterclaimed by the cop, then I could say they're fakeclaiming, we know have two scum, blah blah blah. If I was lucky, I'd get one of those two lynched, and the mafia would take care of the other over night. If I only got one of them, then that'd work just as well. My worries was that the bishop (BTW, I got strong power role tells from Iba, but I did not expect her to be the bishop, she was my N1 target as well) might allow either the cop or doc to live after we tried to lynch them, and that could cause complications.

Of course, another outcome is instead of following my lead, the town could just go and lynch me, this is where he bishop being alive would've helped my cause, because I could put in my final words and hopefully the bishop would save me. I even had part of my statement put together "Bishop, don't bother saving me if the town truly doesn't believe me. As much use as I am to the town as a cop, if they're just going to lynch me again then they're just going to waste another lynch and it won't be worth it."

I was also afraid of the double lynch from the bishop, this could potentially, while I still remove a power role, still give the town a chance to remove me or a scum in the same day. Or worse yet, on the following day get their lynch on me, knowing that I'm the devil, and then proceed with their usual lynch for scum.

This is why I was excited when the bishop died N1, if there's no double lynch, then when the town finally realizes who I am, the harm I planned on doing would have already been done, and a lynch on me would just be wasting a lynch since my number doesn't count towards the scum's win condition. That would push my group even closer to winning by me death plus another night death.

My error was looking too protown and helping clear townies way too much. It was after Rosso posted that the lynch occured, and we couldn't post, that I realized I was going to die that night. Apparently I gave off town vibes enough for the scum, but not enough for the doc. I was trying to slip in some hints to the mafia, but I didn't do that too well.

[al_kohaulec]

Ya, the flavor made roleclaims way too confirmable. I don't think there should be any difference between vanilla roles (given a few exceptions), and giving each player claimable flavor essentially provided players with a real role they could claim that simply didn't do anything.

[al_kohaulec]

mikanoff