NomicScum, Game 2

[Robotnick2]

re-/in, for the record.

What he said.

[izakthegoomba]

...

That was hilarious.

[Feirei]

Bump.

[Packbat]

If JDGA does not or cannot propose his revised ruleset by Friday, I will write one myself. I believe Rule III allows for that.

[Feirei]

Yup.

[JDGA]

I'm still in V/LA conditions, but I'll see what I can do.

[Packbat]

Spoiler: Packbat's Game 2 Rules Proposal

Immutable Rules

101. The game shall start at 11:59 p.m. UTC on Saturday, June 8 with an initial set of Game Rules consisting of Rules 101-118 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). Until the game starts, any eligible person may add or remove themself from the player list at will; after the game starts, the player list shall be fixed except where other rules permit its alteration.

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. Any player who has lost (by forfeiture or otherwise) shall be removed from the player list. No person may join the player list of a game from which they have been removed.

115. Any player whose action violates the rules shall lose and be removed from the player list. The action in question and all actions following it shall then be reversed.

116. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

117. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

118. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

Mutable Rules

201. Players shall alternate in alphabetical order by username, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, nor parts of turns be omitted, except by the specific action of a rule or by the removal of the player from the playerlist prior to their turn's completion. After such an event, the turn of the next player alphabetically shall begin immediately. All players begin with zero points. The first turn shall go to the player alphabetically following the last player to complete a turn in the game immediately prior.

202. A player's turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) adding a number of points to their score. The number of points added shall be calculated by subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer.

(This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

Each player has twenty-four (24) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change twenty-four (24) hours after being prodded, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list.

(This clause implicitly enforces Rule 111.)

203. Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to propose a rule-change and bring it to vote. When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.

204. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

205. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, first, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each, and second, the players who fail to explicitly vote on a proposal before close of voting shall lose 5 points and have their votes placed in favor.

206. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

207. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

208. Each player always has exactly one vote.

209. The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. No player's points may increase or decrease except as ordained by a rule.

210. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

[Feirei]

Change the time limit to 48 hours. I doubt someone as busy as myself can come up with a rule in two 24 hour periods.

[Packbat]

Reasonable - any other suggested changes?

[Robotnick2]

I'd quite like something to be thrown in there about replacements, but I fear that that would overstep the boundaries of a pregame ruleset.

[Packbat]

I'd quite like something to be thrown in there about replacements, but I fear that that would overstep the boundaries of a pregame ruleset.

Right - that should probably be decided democratically. So, I'll assume that signups are for this:

Spoiler: Packbat's Game 2 Rules Proposal, Revised

Immutable Rules

101. The game shall start at 11:59 p.m. UTC on Saturday, June 9 with an initial set of Game Rules consisting of Rules 101-118 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). Until the game starts, any eligible person may add or remove themself from the player list at will; after the game starts, the player list shall be fixed except where other rules permit its alteration.

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

105. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

114. Any player who has lost (by forfeiture or otherwise) shall be removed from the player list. No person may join the player list of a game from which they have been removed.

115. Any player whose action violates the rules shall lose and be removed from the player list. The action in question and all actions following it shall then be reversed.

116. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

117. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

118. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

Mutable Rules

201. Players shall alternate in alphabetical order by username, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, nor parts of turns be omitted, except by the specific action of a rule or by the removal of the player from the playerlist prior to their turn's completion. After such an event, the turn of the next player alphabetically shall begin immediately. All players begin with zero points. The first turn shall go to the player alphabetically following the last player to complete a turn in the game immediately prior.

202. A player's turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) adding a number of points to their score. The number of points added shall be calculated by subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer.

(This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

Each player has forty-eight (48) hours from the start of their turn to propose a new rule. In the event that a player does not propose a rule in that time, they are prodded. In the event that they still have not proposed a rule change forty-eight (48) hours after being prodded, their turn shall be skipped. Upon a single player's turn being skipped for the third time by the action of this rule, they lose and are removed from the player list.

(This clause implicitly enforces Rule 111.)

203. Each player shall be given one game week from the beginning of their turn to propose a rule-change and bring it to vote. When a rule-change has been brought to vote, each player shall be given one game week to vote on that rule change.

Each game week shall last at least 6 days, 23 hours, and 59 minutes, ending at the first occurrence of 11:59 p.m UTC on a Saturday after that length of time is complete.

204. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

205. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, first, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each, and second, the players who fail to explicitly vote on a proposal before close of voting shall lose 5 points and have their votes placed in favor.

206. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

207. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

208. Each player always has exactly one vote.

209. The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. No player's points may increase or decrease except as ordained by a rule.

210. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

Current Playerlist:

• Feirei
  
• Packbat
  
• Robotnick2

Game Start: (expired on 2012-06-09 23:59:00)

Edited to reflect the fact that Saturday is June 9th, not June 8th.

[Feirei]

/in for the remainder of the nomicscum series

that way when i cant do anymore, i can just out

[Robotnick2]

/in for the remainder of the nomicscum series

that way when i cant do anymore, i can just out

What s/he said.

[Packbat]

Hm. So.

Game 2 Playerlist:

• Feirei
  
• Packbat
  
• Robotnick2

Rule 301 Proposal Deadline: (expired on 2012-06-16 19:59:00)

As Feirei was the last player to complete a turn, Packbat shall start.

[Packbat]

So, to start things off, comments on:

301. Any player may propose a rule-change while the previous player's rule-change is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, said rule-change shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.

Essentially what this does is allow either extra time for discussion of rule-changes

and

, should this extra time be unnecessary, rule-changes to go to vote more quickly.

[Packbat]

Remember that unanimity is required for rule-passage.

[Robotnick2]

Hmm. I'm in two minds about it - it would provide extra time, however it, to my mind, just makes the turns "messier". I guess I just like structure.
Because it doesn't, in my opinion,

harm

the game, I'd vote Aye. To not do so would seem obstructive and difficult.

[Packbat]

Fair enough. No changes to the wording?

[Robotnick2]

For neatness's sake, and to lessen ambiguity:

301.
Any player may propose a rule-change whilst the rule change of the player previous to them is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, said rule-change shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.

[Packbat]

May as well take it another step, then:

301.
Any player may propose a rule-change whilst the rule change of the player immediately before them in the turn order is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, the most recent rule-change proposed thus shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.

[Kcdaspot]

Hey make a rule for adding new players.

Id like in to this small soiree.. if that's how its spelled.

[Feirei]

I'll vote for it in it's current wording, Packbat.

Kcdaspot, you can /in for game 3 if that's allowed, as I see no rule against it.

[Kcdaspot]

Ill doo that to but if you make a rule to allow other players in, I'm first for that as well.

[Packbat]

Sounds good - I'll go ahead and put it to a vote now, then.

301.
Any player may propose a rule-change whilst the rule change of the player immediately before them in the turn order is being voted upon. If and when their turn begins, the most recent rule-change proposed thus shall be treated as if it were proposed at the beginning of their turn for all rule purposes save those specifying a minimum interval between proposal and voting.

This rule does not grant players the right to have said rule-change voted on before the beginning of their turn.

VOTE: For

Votes:

• Feirei: --
  
• Packbat: For
  
• Robotnick2: --

[Feirei]

Vote: Aye