Mini 1353 - Dr. Who Mafia - The End of Time (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

Vote: Zang

I'm a daycop, I can't read his useless ass, so guess what I did?

Lynch away folks.

[GreyICE]

We could have Zang lynched already folks.

What is going on...

Free scum lynch day 1 anyone?

[GreyICE]

The Girl in the Fireplace is probably my favorite Season Two episode.

I am waiting until page 1.5 to determine whether GreyICE is joking.

Zang's scumbuddy detected

[GreyICE]

I'm a new Whovian, as I'm currently on my first ever watch through of the series. Started with Christopher Eccleston and now I'm on Season 2 loving David Tennant.

Vote: GreyIce

Missed you, dude.

Missed you too starbuck. When was it last, that BlazBlue abortion? Walking Dead?

God we have a history of being in the worst games on site. Despite MoI's great modding history, do you suppose he's added a few Jesters to this mix?

[GreyICE]

Failure to answer my question sir? That's no fun...

It's free because I handed it to you on a silver platter.

You didn't have to work for it.

You'll have to work for the next one.

As for my character, I'll just say that I am the brains behind the greatest detectives in history.

[GreyICE]

Zang is actually town folks. What can I say Hate his guts still.

It therefore follows that Iecerint is town.

Tierce is town because she's awesome again, although I have some misgivings.

Korlash gets to be town today, because he amuses me, even if he's not half as funny as he thinks he is.

This dude though, this dude is not town at all.

Vote: JasonT1981

Acosmist is town, probable other scum is Greenknight and Starbuck.

[GreyICE]

@Greyice: Posting a list of reads with no reasoning at all? Seriously?

If you were town you'd understand my reasoning.

Unless you're Icerint.

[GreyICE]

1. Sometimes, but also sometimes not. That's only a part of my suspicion of greenknight. He seemed (to me) to really be pushing hard on trying to get a case together on Zang with absolutely nothing to go on other than GreyICE's possible (now, real) joke/RVS exit. Even after GreyICE revealed that it wasn't true, he was still pushing it.

2. How is it not sincere? You say that lots of people didn't get worked up and that didn't make them scum, that's EXACTLY what I mean. Take a look back at GreyICE's 90. He said that he believes that I could possibly be scum, so I asked him why. It would do you well to read things thoroughly. I have noted that he has ignored my question. I also didn't pick an answer to anticipate. That was my stance on the entire thing, but now I do realize that it was a reaction test. Even still though, why would he pick someone like Zang that he has a blatant negative history with to do this test?




greenknight wrote:What case? I voted him based on one tell. I'd say it added pressure because it couldn't be dismissed as an "obvious joke."

I still don't believe you added any pressure with your vote because your reasoning had no backbone. In any case, quite a few people did dismiss it as an obvious joke. So you can not use "couldn't" in this scenario when it DID happen. Now you are just straight up denying things that happened and there's only 5 pages to read back through.

HEY STARBUCK

YOU'RE TERRIBLE SCUM

DISCUSS

[GreyICE]

HEY GUYS

I MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT STARBUCK

I NEED TO SEE

BUT JASON NEEDS THE DEATHS

[GreyICE]

HEY KORLASH

JASON WANTS TO DIE

LETS MAKE IT HAPPEN

[GreyICE]

Hey GrayICE shut the fuck up! Do something productive and back up your shit.

I'm voting for scum.

Sucks to be you

[GreyICE]

Bah! My frustration got to me last night with GrayICE. Team Mafia I was able to put up with his crap, as I knew he was town with me being scum. But not knowing what he is, is pissing off as hell when he does this shit. He needs to actually do something other than scream scum. Reasons, theories, connections, why are things scummy, why is person X scummy.

My vote stays until he pulls his finger out of his ass and does something and backs up his shit.

Gray.. why am I scum?
why is Starbuck scum?

Someone asked what seemed town vs town... I don't think scum would want to be drawn into a tit for tat exchange like it was. Often in day 1 we have town going at it with each other while scum slink away letting town fight it out. That is why I get the feeling it is town vs town.

Yeah this post

That's why

You're scum

[GreyICE]

Acomist has
Not found time to
Mention Jason

Why?

[GreyICE]

This green knight wagon
Is fucking crap
Get off him, town

[GreyICE]

wow someone is mad

well it's not your mom I made sure she was happy last night

real reads stat

[GreyICE]

'kay so you really have nothing to say
about post #180
Nevermind
Post #63

Woo boy

Not one drop of townie motivation
In either one

[GreyICE]

Oh gods no
I've been anally raped by mods much worse than that

Like imagine you're scum
And the moderator thinks its funny to put in PGOs who can redirect players to themselves, like multiple
Or you're scum and the moderator thinks its hysterical to take 3 townies out of 3 players left alive and make one a serial killer
Or imagine you're scum and you realize there's two trackers, a cop, a doctor, a vigilante, a bulletproof innocent child and a backup. And you have three scumteam members.

Green may not be scum.
There's some town tells. I'll go over them, but they're there.
Jason needs the good death.

We may be arguing about which scumteam member dies first, this is possible.

[GreyICE]

The second one is town.
Hmmm
Oh the game where there was 5 scum out of 13 players and the town had no real power roles. That was funny.

[GreyICE]

Read on triangle, T-Bone and Korlash, please.

Are you motherfucking kidding me

TIERCE ARE YOU SCUM TIERCE

READ ON KORLASH

KORLASH

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

Triangle's 5 posts are wishy-washy stuff, generally bad, but 5 posts etc. He should be on radar screens.

T-Bone #82 is garbage, T-Bone unvotes Greenknight when greenknight has started to gain momentum (hmmmm), T-Bone crap votes Korlash


Are you working on something here, Tierce?

But seriously, Korlash?

[GreyICE]

Full disclosure: I'm not either

But like 90% he's town and I'm not touching him day 1

[GreyICE]

Full disclosure: I'm not either

But like 90% he's town and I'm not touching him day 1

That's good enough for me. I just want you to stop being dodgy and apparently ignoring mostly everyone.


Korlash, I'll read them--but I want to read them while not skimming several hours after midnight, it's too much info to grok all at once. My day was hell on an emotional level and I'm trying to get stuff done without imploding, because I did owe this thread a catch-up. More thorough work will wait until I've rested and relaxed some.

Not ignoring them, just ignoring them

They're not important.

I have my town reads I have my scum reads, we're ready to rock.

[GreyICE]

@greenknight - can you tell your current read on GreyICE?

Suspicious. On the one hand, I believe Zang and Jason's statements that he is playing according to normal meta. However, I still view Grey's reluctance to explain his reads until others have taken positions as anti-town. For example: the question of my alignment has been the most divisive thing in the game so far, and his unexplained read is that I was scum while my wagon was growing - and now that the wagon has stalled out I might be town and triangle, who voted me, is suspicious. Very convenient if he's scum. At least he's started posting actual content now.

Am I anti-town
Or scum

The masses want to know

[GreyICE]

So are you Haylen or Delta Jason?

[GreyICE]

Jason... What exactly do I always do?

[GreyICE]

Jason... What exactly do I always do?

Have I not already answered that LOL.

Whatg I mean is you call scum/town in every game I have seen you in without really backing up anything and lead a charge so to speak calling for their lynch with doing minimal work yourself expecting others to go solely of your word on who is scum.

Interesting.

I'd say that matches my play in pretty much zero games.

Why did you want a 1v1 between me and Zang, Jason?

[GreyICE]

simple... to test just how serious your claim was.

I would say it matches your play in most games though.

But you didn't believe my claim

So if I 1v1ed Zang, what were you going to do there, Jason?

[GreyICE]

But you were okay with voting Zang anyway

[GreyICE]

But you left it on for quite a bit.

See the thing is, Jason, if you don't believe the claim, but ALSO believe I might fakeclaim as town, there's no town motivation to vote Zang. If he does get quicklynched, does flip town, and the town does lynch me day 2 the game is essentially over - it'll be two days with zero information and a pile of dead townies.

There's a lot of scum motivation to do that though.

[GreyICE]

And what is the town motivation for claiming a guilty on someone you don't have?

I'm a village idiot according to you, who always plays anti-town. So your question has no purpose at all, according to your own posts.

Are you a village idiot who always plays anti-town?

If not, why did you vote Zang when you thought the guilty was faked and the outcome of a Zang lynch with a faked guilty would be so very obviously disastrous?

[GreyICE]

Tierce townie coalition of goodness?


Questions that need to be answered:

Kortul

's vote is on T-Bone. He's pushing GreenKnight and uh... pretty much just sitting there and asking questions. He also doesn't seem to care if they're answered or not, I pretty much deliberately ignored some of them and he hasn't bothered to follow up. I should probably kick that hornet's nest to see what flies out someday. Also he's ignoring Jason like soooo hard (he pushed him a few days ago, and is now not, which means something).

CMAR is just doing a play-by-play on the thread for some reason. No one wants it or is interested, but I guess it resembles content.

Acosmist is town.

Iec is probs town.

Zang is probs town, even if he can't remember that every time he's played with me he's been on the same scumteam as me (of course he wasn't reading those games at all, so why should he remember?)

ACOSMIST AND TIERCE
TOWNIE COALITION OF GOODNESS

[GreyICE]

If you have Zang, it was such an amazing game I forgot it.

I really think the two times we were scum together were the only two times we've played together.

[GreyICE]

See posts like 284, 287, and 289?

I'm not reading those

[GreyICE]

Oh fuck this.

Vote: Kortul

[GreyICE]

It's not like mine are really walls. They are mostly quotes.

That's why I'm not reading them.

Quote
-Reply
Quote
-Reply
Quote
-Reply

Yeah that shit is completely pointless. No one cares. No one reads it, no one wants to read it. I can read a well constructed paragraph. Or a dozen. But I'm not going to try and follow some thread of some dinky little conversation you're having that's veering off course. If you wanted me to read it, you'd make it readable.

[GreyICE]

So many things to do, so little time. Knowing how to fly a TARDIS is a bit irrelevant when you don't have one accessible at the moment.

TL;DR: Post tomorrow, must review T-Bone, and was that a kortul vote I saw somewhere? Grey, you should know better.

HE'S SCUM

DAMMIT

LOOK AT HIM

SCUM

[GreyICE]

I will. But not today, Grey. Not D1. I have a weak townread on him I want to explore a bit further.

HHHHEEEEEEEEE'SSSS SCUUUUMMMMMMM

[GreyICE]

I will. But not today, Grey. Not D1. I have a weak townread on him I want to explore a bit further.

HHHHEEEEEEEEE'SSSS SCUUUUMMMMMMM

Doubt it. Cooperate with me and we'll put kortul back on the table tomorrow.

Vote: JasonT1981

You need to stop believing people are town
Because they play like you would if you were scum pretending to be town

[GreyICE]

It's impossible to be in town in such a hot summer, so for now on weekends i will be mostly V/LA without internet access. On a bright side, it allows watching Dr. Who from a flashdrive, saw the first 7 episodes of Ninth doctor so far. I forgot when last time i were watching funny science fiction, so i am glad i tried it

Back to the game. Answering or asking as i am going through the posts. Hmm, after all those concise to extreme posts Acosmist managed to make a post i was unable to read through after two tries. Will try again when i'll be ISOing him.



It's impossible to be in town in such a hot summer, so for now on weekends i will be mostly V/LA without internet access. On a bright side, it allows watching Dr. Who from a flashdrive, saw the first 7 episodes of Ninth doctor so far. I forgot when last time i were watching funny science fiction, so i am glad i tried it Back to the game. Answering or asking as i am going through the posts. Hmm, after all those concise to extreme posts Acosmist managed to make a post i was unable to read through after two tries. Will try again when i'll be ISOing him.

SEE IT'S SHIT LIKE THIS TIERCE

READ IT

YOU SEE THE COMMENTARY ON JASON'S WAGON?

YEAH ME NEITHER.

IT'S PROBABLY THE BIGGEST EVENT IN THE TOWN AND KORTUL'S LIKE "DEE DEE I'M WASHING MY FUCKING HAIR."

Tierce can we fucking kill this scumbag? He blatantly doesn't want to take a stance on Jason's wagon, and there's no townie motive.

[GreyICE]

Grey. Teamwork. Please.
You need to realize the fact that you're in a team and that the kortul wagon has no pull today, so move on to the next best case. Compromise.

I really don't like this blind tunneling and it makes me suspicious of you--yes, there is no commentary on jason's wagon on that post, but it's a weekend (when he said he would be V/LA) and kortul is ISOing people, as he said he would.

kortul will be back on the table tomorrow. Today, other fish are due on the frying pan.

-_-

Blind tunneling? Threatening me Tierce?

We're 8 days from deadline, I feel no deadline pressure.

Vote: Tierce

Lets slice your bubble and see how you fall.

[GreyICE]

Grey. Teamwork. Please.
You need to realize the fact that you're in a team and that the kortul wagon has no pull today, so move on to the next best case. Compromise.

I really don't like this blind tunneling and it makes me suspicious of you--yes, there is no commentary on jason's wagon on that post, but it's a weekend (when he said he would be V/LA) and kortul is ISOing people, as he said he would.

kortul will be back on the table tomorrow. Today, other fish are due on the frying pan.

-_-

Blind tunneling? Threatening me Tierce?

We're 8 days from deadline, I feel no deadline pressure.

Vote: Tierce

Lets slice your bubble and see how you fall.

Stop being obtuse. I wasn't threatening you (since when do I threaten people?), I was voicing concerns about someone who is otherwise a rather obvious townread.

What do you think of Post 330?

I hate ISO readthroughs in general, and #330 was pretty much no different than usual. He reiterated a bunch of stuff we already knew, which was that Jason is scummy and deserves to be lynched.

-_-

So, town-Tierce. Describe my play in Fate's game. Accurately.

[GreyICE]

I know what you're talking about--your D1 play that had cooperation with the quadz lynch-plan while you tried to push on another players.
I'm aware that in this game you are doing much the same with jason; you're cooperating. I have a townread on you, it's not like you're acting that differently.

But I was never really alive in Destiny Mafia to comment on it as it went--I'm alive here, and asking you to

please

stop raging at kortul, there is little point in doing that today. Going "heeeeee's scuuuuuuum" is not going to convince anyone that he is, and it obviously does not draw reactions from him. He's not the kind of player who reacts to that (and the way he shrugs it off makes me think town who knows his play is just fine, tbqh). It's worsening the signal:noise ratio and not really doing anything at this stage.

You believe kortul is scum, I get it, there's no need to repeat it in allcaps in every post. I'll analyze it tomorrow with you, especially since I want to see how this works out with a potential jason scumflip. If you want to start analyzing aspects of his play now, go ahead, but I'd rather do that more thoroughly during night/tomorrow.

Well then, scum-Tierce, why don't you respond to my actual points on Kortul.

[GreyICE]

Fuck this.

Not a single one of Jason's posts reads with anything resembling genuine feeling. Not genuine defense, not genuine frustration, not genuine confusion, not genuine conviction, not genuine anything.

Last post said his feeling was that Zang was town due to his reaction to my claim.

Zang... the person he was voting... and wanted me to 1v1... was probably town... due to my claim.

Vote: JasonT1981

Fuck you scum-Tierce.

[GreyICE]

Oh fuck you very much, Jason, how did you do in Ghostbusters mafia? Oh that's right, all your scum reads were town, like every one.

[GreyICE]

Fuck this shit.

Unvote

He's not going to flip scum.

Vote: Tierce

[GreyICE]

wrong, DeltaWave was scum. I was pushing that since D1 of the game

A few have talked about my 1vs1 challange to Gray as to what it was... I was serious. I have seen Gray fake claim a few times day 1 I believe (GB Mafia being the latest with Miller lcaim I believe) and wanted to see how far he woyuld take it. Would he be prepered to keep it up when challanged or let it fade when challanged proving he was talking shite. I believed the latter.. and was correct.

Yes, my vote on Zang was RV, probably stayed on longer than it should and it doesnt look good for me in that respect. It was honestly a RV in spite of Grays claim the vote would have gone on Zang regardless as I thought it sounded like a cool Dr Who villian name.

That wasn't a fakeclaim you fucking idiot.

[GreyICE]

Gray ice - Full scum to town reads, please!

Vote: JasonT1981

No

[GreyICE]

Go read what I wrote in that game.

I said that I was a ghost, and if anyone had a role that investigated ghosts I would investigate as a ghost.

I WAS A MOTHERFUCKING GHOST

[GreyICE]

Hi, I'm Slimer, the friendly ghost who drives the bus around.

I'll investigate as a ghost.

Benmage claimed a sensor that could tell how many ghosts were on the wagon. Which made me a miller.

If you want to throw in that the moderator decided that slimer the friendly ghost wouldn't investigate as a ghost to the sensor who could tell how many ghosts were on the wagon (after the fact) then, well... yeah.

[GreyICE]

Grey: If Tierce is scum, why are you on the wagon she's been pushing all day?

Jason needs to fucking die.

[GreyICE]

because im pushing him.

You forgot you think I'm town again.

Just fucking curl up and die.

[GreyICE]

Hey Jason

If I lynch you I'm lynching scum.

Good night.

[GreyICE]

Well kortul, what do you think of our goddess Tiece's content?

She's posting right there.

She tries and locks me to the Jason wagon by saying me voting someone else isn't useful. She implies it's scummy.
Now you hop in when I push tierce, and attack me.

You two have a quicktopic somewhere that I should know about?

[GreyICE]

Hey Kortul

What's your read on Tierce?

[GreyICE]

Grey, as long as you behaving normally i am open for dialogue. But you should know my answer already, i said at least twice that Tierce is one of my town reads. Based on post 267, which i consider town tell, her consistent stance on Jason and general quiet and logical style of play. There is one thing that i don't like - periods of inactivity here while being active in other games, but i have no idea whether it is normal for those who play in many games at once, will probably meta her after day 1 to find out whether this is true in other games.

Now, can you answer questions about Jason?

Okay then.

I find Jason's back and forth on me incredibly irritating. His basic strategy seems to be to suggest that I'm awful, something he didn't try in Team Mafia. Having been wildly successful scum in team mafia, I was near willing to chuck it down as a town tell. But the play...

Basically, it's the most skitzo play I've ever seen.

1) He says that he thinks I'm fakeclaiming, and then votes Zang anyway (he says he doesn't want Zang quicklynched, but what is the point of the RVS vote? To put Zang under pressure? I think having a claimed cop guilty is pressure. RVS is not that random).

2) He then tries to force a 1v1 between me and Zang.

3) When I reveal the truth, he simply goes 'oh how scummy' and votes me. Then he quickly assures everyone that I'm a terrible player who would fakeclaim as town.

4) Under pressure, he unvotes me, and goes 'oh Grey is terrible town. Completely terrible!' He has no other reads, and doesn't put down a vote on anyone. Despite having 3 scum reads

Starbuck has changed due to more, and better posts. I am getting a more town feel from her as the game went on.
triangle123 - Did not like the jump on Greenknight, seemed forced
Acosmist - posts a lot but not seeing any real substance from him. seems to be saying things for sake of it rather than gen scum hunting.

^^ No vote down here. Doesn't vote.

5) He claims VT. I hate this, because I rarely see scum under pressure claim VT. It's more likely to draw cop or doctor claims. Or, y'know, some power role. The 'don't lynch the cop' reflex is just so strong, whereas towns will lynch VTs. He can't expect me to unvote, I laughed at Haylen's VT claim.

6) So, I try and evaluate what's going on. He grabs Tierce's lifeline and goes "OH MY GOD, GREY SO SCUM" and votes me again. He then proceeds to lecture me on how I'm terrible town. Again.


So yeah, at this point he's not playing like he does as scum. But he's not playing like he's town. I give up, I'm tired, tired of reading that shit.

I think Tierce is scum. I really do. I don't like her at all. But I cannot focus when there's a Jester jumping up and down and screaming about my play in other games and being a completely useless piece of shit in every single way.

I mean you realize if you go through the thread and count his interactions with people that were NOT defenses he's interacted with one single person over the course of the entire game. Me.

Seriously, go through his quote history. The only person he's interacted with, at all, in the entire town, at any point (except to defend himself) is me.

Me alone.


I mean my god, if I don't lynch people for this, what do I lynch them for?

[GreyICE]

Actually I have a question. Kortul, am I voting for scum or town?

[GreyICE]

Starbuck <3

[GreyICE]

Actually I have a question. Kortul, am I voting for scum or town?

Kortul....

[GreyICE]

Look, I have some fairly solid town reads. At this point, I wanna throw a question out there.

I am not joking when I say I am the one and only focus of Jason's gameplay. Please, read the ISO, and say otherwise. It's a level of fixation I've literally never seen from anyone, town or scum. I don't want to even say lyncher, because I think a lyncher would do a better job of appearing to have more than one target. But Jason knows that the way to get me not to pay attention to you is call me town and be friendly to me.

Tierce on the other hand is just not town.

Vote: Tierce

4 days to deadline, shall we do this folks?

[GreyICE]

Grey, do you think his fixation has something to do with your history on site? I've played with you and Jason more times than I can count, and I'm trying to remember if this is a normal thing for him or not.

I literally have never seen it at this level. Ever. Normally he's defending his town reads and yelling for his scum reads to die. He typically has a fairly narrow focus, but NEVER this narrow. Never. I've never seen it before in any game I've played with him. It's to the point where it is literally creeping me out.

I can't think of a town motive for it at all, but I can't think of a scum one either (unless his goal is to draw suspicion to himself so he can show off his amazing fakeclaim of... VT...)

[GreyICE]

-- You have

one

finished game with me, in which we were both town, which you're certainly not checking because it was lost in the crash and it wasn't recovered AFAICT.
-- You apparently haven't meta'd me.
-- You have an

ongoing

game with me, in which we're both unflipped.

How do you take conclusions on "what I know of you" since you have no evidence?

FoS: triangle123

greenknight, promise I'll address that tonight. I have a game in LyLo but I know we're quite near to the deadline here too, so these two games are priorities.

Tierce gal you so scum

[GreyICE]

Tierce, I get you are self-righteous and indignant that anyone would think you were scum for that.

But you're playing it up, and nothing is going to change the fact that you are

just. not. town.

Hola people, time to launch this wagon.

[GreyICE]

Seriously folks, read Tierce's words. Read them? Good.

She's angry that people think she's scum FOR THE WRONG REASONS.

My god, town-tierce would be like "fuck you, it's a town tell because I'm town, so lets move on and I'll do some really good analysis of this game." Scum-Tierce is like "well, I've totally done this as town before, really folks, this is a TERRIBLE reason to lynch me!"

String her up.

[GreyICE]

Seriously folks, read Tierce's words. Read them? Good.

She's angry that people think she's scum FOR THE WRONG REASONS.

My god, town-tierce would be like "fuck you, it's a town tell because I'm town, so lets move on and I'll do some really good analysis of this game." Scum-Tierce is like "well, I've totally done this as town before, really folks, this is a TERRIBLE reason to lynch me!"

String her up.

[GreyICE]

I'd like Tierce, I'm quite content with Jason, because as I said I can't think of ANY motive for his posts. And his last post just reeks of desperate survivalist thinking.

"Oh god this guy I've been tunneling all game and alternatively calling terrible at this game or scum made a really good point. Lemme last second sheep!"

So one of the two must die.

@Zang: Why aren't you voting for ANYONE?!?

[GreyICE]

@Zang: Why aren't you voting for ANYONE?!?

I have a scum read on greenknight but I don't think that my read is voteworthy because he has not done anything since he unvoted me that is really scummy and since his wagon isn't doing anything anyway, I prefer to not vote him. There are also a few others also who I may vote for but haven't really done enough to convince me to vote for them. I also might be willing vote for Tierce but I don't exactly know what the case on him is.

I also think that jason is town, which is why I will not vote for him.

Okay well you're on the road to complete irrelevance since the deadline is in 36 hours.

[GreyICE]

Vigilante vigs from this list if he exists:

triangle123, T-Bone, Greenknight, Acosmist, Zang

Pick the scummiest, I don't fucking care. With 24 hours to deadline they're doing literally nothing to get a lynch through on anyone relevant. Each and every one of those jackasses deserves to die.

Korlash removed because he was on VLA.

But yeah, each and every one of those dinks needs to die, and vigilante, your bullets will be doing some serious good in there. I'd personally pick triangle, but up to you.

Jason/Tierce also VERY acceptable vig targets.

"Vig" someone else, and I'll assume that's a serial killer claim (and yes MoI puts those in his games, so don't try and claim 'oh he'd never do that')

[GreyICE]

OH OKAY

TIERCE IS OBVIOUS SCUM

LYNCH PLEASE

I'MMA GONNA NAME CLAIM WHILE KEEPING MY ROLE SECRET BECAUSE

LIKE

MOI DOESN'T GIVE SCUM FAKECLAIMS AND SHIT

EXECUTE HER

[GreyICE]

SO TIERCE

ARE YOU A DALEK OR A CYBERMAN

THE INQUIRING MASSES WANT TO KNOW

HMMM

KNOWING MOI IT'S TWO DALEKS AND THAT ASSHOLE EMPEROR GUY WHO WILL BE A GODFATHER (MOI LOVES GODFATHERS, EVEN WITHOUT COPS)

AM I CLOSE TIERCE?

[GreyICE]

So your contention is that if you breadcrumb a role it confirms you that role?

Hmmm

No.

How dare you accuse me of tunneling Tierce? Like literally, how dare you? I've done the exact opposite this game. Now if you want to accuse me of trying to lynch scum, guilty. You could self-vote to help me out.

Would you say partial claims are scummy Tierce? Yes or no?

[GreyICE]

I don't want your claim.

I want you dead.

[GreyICE]

There's no townie motive to partial claiming like Tierce did. The only motive is 'make the wagon go away today.'

At L-4, to partial claim, then suggest you have a power role, then refuse to full claim is just ridiculous. It's another threat. "Wagon me and you'll be wagoning some role. That's important. Also, I breadcrumbed my role, it's very town."

Did Tierce notice that Jason breadcrumbed his role?

If breadcrumbing a role is supposed to be a town tell, why is her vote on Jason? If it is not a town tell, why would she do it?

Consider this strongly folks. Then vote Tierce.

[GreyICE]

You're joking, right?

I didn't fullclaim at L-4--wow, what an absurd notion. I'm indicating that there are breadcrumbs for my role. Yes, I'm claiming PR. Preeeetty obvious that if I'm breacrumbing it's because there may be important stuff revealed

after I die

that people will need to detect. -_-

The more you know.

Go reread MLP, Grey.

Weren't you scum in MLP?

[GreyICE]

Argh. I don't like a Jason lynch nor a Tierce lynch. I've had a town read on Jason this whole day, and though I have a basically null read on Tierce because I still wanted to hear more from her about her thoughts on players other than Jason, I'm definitely not up for lynching a claimed power role. But I know it's too late for a GK or T-Bone lynch to go through, so:

Unvote

Vote: Jason

It's preferable to a no-lynch. Jason is now at L-1.

Hoo boy scum with tierce identified.

"I have a null read on tierce but a town read on jason, vote jason"

[GreyICE]

I am the white void.
I am the cold steel.
I am the just sword.
With blade in hand shall I reap the sins of this world and cleanse it in the fires of destruction.

And during the Night 1 i will try to do a research on Iecerint, to see whether something useful is hidden in his meta, he is my town read but i have a feeling he is staying under radar.

I am GreyICE
The End Has Come!

Vote: Iecerint

[GreyICE]

Also

Scum claims like scum
Town claims like town

Remember this well, children~

[GreyICE]

Is your custom title a goal or a joke?

[GreyICE]

Sorry that was mean.

But like, I could not be more fucking obvious town here if MoI posted my role PM in thread.

[GreyICE]

Confirmed scum, Iecerint, Tierce.

Discussion of Tierce-scum:

Strong scum meta, very powerful player. Has an instinct to bus weak members, tempered by an inability to carry through. Prefers to push lynches on scummy townies. Hence Jason, perfect whipping boy of the oppressed and downtrodden.

Discussion of Iecerint-scum:

Weaker scum, confined by his inability to play an emotional game. He has a tendency to ignore his scumbuddies. Witness from his ISO the lack of reference to Tierce at any point. Bussing today is stupid.

Triangle is town.

"I don't see any kind of crumb. Kortul did note lack of talk/references between Tierce and Acomist, though."

Acomist is town

Tierce moves vote from Starbuck to Iecerint for no reason

- moving vote from scum to scum? Hmmm. Possible, tierce is good. But I doubt it. Iecerint pushing the Jason->Starbuck angle makes Starbuck look worse. Iec continuing to push it today to blame starbuck for Jason's town flip means that Starbuck is muuuuchhhhh better.

Starbuck is town... for now

Actually #436... then the vote.

Starbuck is town

Scum always think their superheroes can pull their bacon out of the fryer.

Zang voted Tierce last minute. Iece trusted my guilty on Zang. Hmmm.

THE DEATH PILE

For termination following today's broadcast.[/b]

CryMeARiver

- For cruel and unusual lurking.

Zang

- he loves to bus. He never articulated his reasons for his suspicions on Tierce. Also general crimes against humanity. BTW, Iecerint trusted my daycop on him, and Tierce ignored it.

Acosmist

- for failure to mention Iecerint or Tierce, he must die. For failure of them to mention him, he must die. For general failure to launch, he must die.

Korlash

- he continues to make me highly uncomfortable.

My push on Tierce is a veritable bonanza of goodness.

One of those four people (at least) will have a confirmable power role or otherwise clear themselves, so we are ready to rock.

Town, following today, if I leave you:

1) It will be like, fucking 8:1 or something. Maybe 7:1:1 (TIERCE COULD BE SERIAL KILLER KILL NEVER FORGET THIS). I dunno what serial killer shoots tierce. Look for someone she had a "scum read on," or alternatively someone I was pushing who thought she was town (ALL ROADS LEAD TO KORLASH)

ANYWAY. Lynching town will occur. Evaluate claims, and other things. Don't get discouraged. Efficient lynches are better than long lynches with lots of discussion for days 3 and 4. Keep people on track.

2) Mass claim, probably day 4. Narrow down their options. Depends on what the SK is doing (Don't mass claim if you fear SK, it gives the scum/SK too many confirmed townies to shoot. Remember, crosskills are good). If there's no SK, that's fucking awesome. To that end, the vigilante, if they exist, should initiate the mass claim day 4. Obv if town vig flips before then you're set like hell. Obv obv obv.

3) Kortul, you are DA MAN. Mad props from the day thread here.

[GreyICE]

Oh so you're the serial killer.

Fucking damn it I was hoping you were mafia scum.

Okay you can go away now.

[GreyICE]

In other news Iecerint is confirmed serial killer.

I mean look at the role claim. He's a bulletproof player with a killing ability who kills anyone who hides behind him.

He just claimed NK-Immune Miller Vig.

Balls.

[GreyICE]

Eh, I'm still hoping he's some sort of scum support... But it does seem unlikely. Unless it's a gambit to pull out the vig... I really don't want to think MOI put an SK in here...

There was one in IPod Mafia.

Someone's something law: People tend to claim their roles, no matter their alignment. Iecerint is bulletproof, and he does have a killing ability. He's a SK.

[GreyICE]

Well Tierce flipped like captain nobody. Oh well.

Starbuck is still obvious town, btw. Don't touch her.

Other stuff applies if Iec somehow flips scum.

Preetttyyyy much same list needs death. With another town death tonight, it'll be 6:2 (down from 9:3:1) so don't get cocky. Trust your power roles.

[GreyICE]

So Iece, you admit your roleclaim is nightkill immune vigilante.

First, I know you're scum, because I tried the exact same line of reasoning ("you'll be in a good spot if you do X") when a cop investigated me. Also the 'scum targeted me god it sucks hider died' stuff. But NK immune vig? Nah.

Secondly, you seriously gotta die. Your last chance, if you claim SK I'll consider the value of leashing you versus just lynching you.

[GreyICE]

Triangle needs to Triangdie, especially if Iec is the Serial Killer.

It removes all relational tells between them, and Triangle-Tierce interactions were terribad.

[GreyICE]

What.

No kortul hid behind iec. Tierce shot kortul it's how she thinks. Did nothing because you cant shoot a hider.

STARBUCK claimgasm makes her scum though. Sad.

[GreyICE]

Starbuck you breadcrumbed because tierce loves em, not because a 1-shot commuter is a superb role.

MoI is going to hand out some good scum fakes (hello River Song). Tierce got all excited in the scum qt and you followed along.

Whatever, finish the sk then 186 Starbucks.

[GreyICE]

So you're telling us you've read the scum QT then?

Oh thank god. I got access to it midway through day 1 yesterday, and I couldn't mention that fact in thread until someone else guessed.

You and Starbuck are really quiet now that Tierce is dead.

[GreyICE]

No Starbuck needs to die next for panic-assuming the commuter targeted her.

Acosmist is 100% correct btw. SK is scum, scum is SK. Scum is defined as "anything not town" and anything not town must die.

T-Boner gets town points though.

Badass lynch, hope MoI isn't on weekend VLA too hard to stop us from seeing this flip. Sorry Iec, you weren't getting out of this one.

[GreyICE]

hider.

[GreyICE]

And then panic justifying why she roleclaimed, even though it's not in her meta.

1) Town doesn't go "OH SHIT HIDER TARGETED ME" when they see a dead hider. They think "FUCKING CASH! FREE SCUM LYNCH HO!" Starbuck's reaction was to explain what happened if she was targeted, not to check the hider's ISO to find his target. Guilty conscience? Guilty Conscience. Times twenty.

2) The "I don't normally breadcrumb, but Rose is like super-important role."

Hello, are you fucking reading this folks? Rose was a 1-shot commuter. You know, a role whose sole purpose is to block kills? If you think your role is hyper townie and you can't be killed, you start acting like Joe the amazing hyper-town. But even ignoring optimal play, 1-shot Commuter is the weakest role ever. She's now effectively claiming VANILLA TOWNIE. And claiming it's a super important role.

Think about that.

Vanilla townie ?= Super Powerful role?

I'll let you fill that one in yourself. But honestly, a townie gets a role like 1-shot commuter they think "geez, really? Oh well, I guess it's better than nothing."

3) She claimed to be worried a hider would target her if she used her commuter power, but was afraid she'd be the scum kill.

Like really? She thought Tierce was scum, so she'd be killed over... me? The guy slamming Tierce? Or Kortul, he of the infinite walls of reads? She's done very little, and is now declaring her intent to do very little in the future.


Tomorrow the Starbuck dies.

[GreyICE]

Now, an episode of Starbuck vs. Starbuck

When did I say that plan ol' regular Townie was super important? That's putting words in my mouth right there.

This is the first time that I've ever really crumbed in all my time playing, but I figured

with a role of such high importance

as Rose, that I should.

Which Starbuck is correct?

I also wasn't worried that a hider would target me. I was worried that the scum would target me, hence I commuted last night. Stop misrepping me.

I frakking knew it!

I also think that I know what happened to kortul. I'm pretty sure that he hid behind me.

Hmmmmm...



Yeah, this is a 'goddamn hider' post.


Look, anyone reading this knows what happened.

1) Starbuck saw dead hider who didn't like her much, went "oh god he hid behind me!" What role could explain this? Commuter! Explains the missing scum kill (scum shot Kortul!) and explains that even though the hider tried to hide behind her, he didn't die from hiding behind her, oh no no no.

The emphasis on the fact that she's ROSE TAYLOR being important, but the fact that she's VT making her unimportant is amazing. I'm ROSE TAYLOR! Of course I'm town. Just a humble VT, of course, trying to help out. But ROSE TAYLOR! And would MoI make Rose a fakeclaim? (Yes, yes he would)

2) Everything since then has been your genuine Grade A flail. I mean my god, look, she's worried that we're mislynching Iecerint, because it's so easy to 'know' he's town (he's not scum, after all!). She's just trying to help the town. Her role is "totes plausible." (Yes Korlash, that's most definitely a tell)


186 this.

[GreyICE]

If you wanted to give decent information to the town you would have ISOed Kortul and tried to figure out who he targeted.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Greenknight

[GreyICE]

It was the way he did it Triangle. Obviously as scum he wants two things from this lynch. He wants to lynch the SK, and he wants the day to end with as little discussion as possible. His quick check in to vote and check out accomplishes that. No one else did that as blatantly as he did, and that's why his vote was the worst on the wagon.

Also Triangle, I tend to generalize when making arguements. Sure he 'did eventually' justify his reads. But, it's easy for scum to come back later and justify why they are calling someone town or scum. Plus there was my whole discussion as to the coincidence that he suspected the top two wagons, which in my mind, the cases on both of them were so distinct and opposite of each other. I know in my mind because I read GK as town, that he couldn't be scum with Jason. But this goes back to some of my discussion as to why I find him scummy.

See T-Bone, what I don't see is a reason why voting the Serial Killer was a bad thing.

Obviously we were going to lynch Iecerint. It goes without saying. But now you're trying to make hay out of the fact that we speed lynched a serial killer.

In any case, reaction test was AWESOME. Greenknight is confirmed town. Zang is town.

Starbuck? I'll give someone mondo town credit if they see what's wrong with her post.

Vote: Starbuck

She's fucking scummy scum, and gets to die today.

Acosmist is a stupid wagon, and T-Bone is... yeah, at least 80% likely to be scum. Or playing Polite Mafia T-Boner, which, well... T-Bone are you playing the way you did in Polite Mafia?

[GreyICE]

Seriously Grey? You were calling all my d1 attackers scum yesterday and now you vote me for no reason?

Speaking of which I still suspect starbuck and acos for previously covered reasons, but not so much triangle because after rereading Tierce she looked to be actively attempting to discredit triangle at 2 points - first by agreeing with triangle's reasoning regarding me (knowing I would flip town) then the attack on triangle's meta arguments late in the day.

It's funny Acos quoted his own post just now, as I think acos is in fact the one who's mad about being called out by T-bone as scum for the wrong reasons here. which is why he's using this factual error = deliberate lying = scum argument.

vote: Acosmist

Also don't really believe that starbuck as town would get super excited and claim immediately without reading the 2 pages posted so far on day 2, whereas I can see scum having a fakeclaim prepared and ready to go should there be unexpected night results.

CMAR, what other strong reads do you have at this point?

Green... You're terrible town.

Acosmist is town too.

Now get your fucking vote up or I'll hose you. Starbuck, CryMeARiver, or T-Boner are the wagons of the day.

[GreyICE]

You're not just the least posts in the thread CMAR. You're so far behind that you'd have to spam like Chesskid to get back in the post count.

Oh, but they've all been really great content-filled outings?

Happy 4th to everyone! Just got my ND roomate assignment but I'm pretty much free up until my V/LA next week after today.

Tell all post tomorrow, just been super busy working and everything.

Back from my V/LA, deadline is fast approaching and we need a lynch.

Also, sorry for the triple post, but the idea of a doctor targeting the person you target sort of breaks down that entire role.

Hey, you remember who else soft-claimed a power role to try and push lynches off of them?

TIERCE.

You claim like scum, you are scum. You claiming like scum, CMAR?

[GreyICE]

It's currently 6:2. Tomorrow it's 4:2 MyLo.

You planning on claiming a guilty tomorrow, CMAR? Because I'll auto-lynch you.

[GreyICE]

Starbuck, wagon analysis. You are doing it wrong. There's several important facts to note.

1) Tierce claimed an 'unknown power role.' That scares inexperienced townies who don't like lynching power claims off her. Yes, she claimed like scum and Jason claimed like town. So?

2) Jason's play was... less than entirely stellar. Tierce was playing a much better game than him, in the abstract. Just she was playing a much better SCUM game than he was playing a TOWN game.

3) Deadline hit.

Why Greenknight is virtually confirmed town

What makes you think that GreyICE would make that list as scum? You were trying for a reaction from Zang and have this whole elaborate argument for it... but can't see GreyICE doing the same, and instead jump on it as if it makes him scum?

Because the list looks like he is just trying to agree with as many people as possible.

Hint: it's a reaction test, and you're failing it badly.

Oh, so you don't think a player who rode a joke claim through the RVS should post some actual reasoning once the joke is done?

Tell me, how am I "failing" this so-called reaction test?

Greenknight is new at this game. You're telling me a new player faked this level of pissed at his scumbuddy?

I dun see it.

His reaction today to me voting him was pretty much the same as his reaction to Tierce. Similar reactions to both TOWN and SCUM attacking him?

That's the ideal. Greenknight isn't part of the elite capable of the highly rarified levels of idealized scumplay - or if he is, I'll officially compliment him after this game. Not worried that he is, the list of people who are are vanishingly short.

So we continue.

[GreyICE]

CMAR

Vengeful claim here means that he most likely will be lynched. Probably tomorrow, to normalize the 4:2 into either a 3:1 (he flips scum) or a (hopefully) 2:1.

But what if a protective role or something makes it 5:2 tomorrow?

Well that's fine, free lynch. Do not lynch CMAR. Instead, lynch him in 2:1 LyLo.

He flips scum? Cash. He flips town? 50:50 on Cash. Scum kill him rather than an investigative role? Cash.

So, he can be town for now.

P.S. Having approximately zero posts in the thread is actually fairly scummy, yes.

[GreyICE]

Triangle123

After reviewing the ISO, my god, why aren't we lynching him?

Honestly, I have no idea.


Soft defense of Tierce?

Wait, wait, whoa. I think I might have missed something here, so let me try to clarify my original intentions. Someone mentioned that Tierce may be scummy for reasons including her relative lack of content in this game. Maybe I misinterpreted this, but I took this to mean they were implying Tierce could possibly not be posting on purpose. This is a strategy that is generally frowned upon, and from what I know of Tierce, she's a well-respected player and wouldn't purposefully just not post in games. So I was just trying to say that the fact that she fell behind a little bit in the game and needed time to catch up and thus wasn't posting much content for a while is likely for a legitimate reason and not something I interpret as scummy. I am NOT drawing this from any on-going games; that wasn't even in my mind when I wrote my post. This has nothing to do with a trust tell, and I don't really see how it could.

Tierce, I'm not sure what kinds of links you want me to post. I never read any games where you as either town or scum purposefully refrained from posting and that's why I said it seems like a null tell to me. Should I just post the links of the games I've read where you were a player?

Check.


Then says Tierce is null, Jason is townie, votes Jason anyway?

Argh. I don't like a Jason lynch nor a Tierce lynch. I've had a town read on Jason this whole day, and though I have a basically null read on Tierce because I still wanted to hear more from her about her thoughts on players other than Jason, I'm definitely not up for lynching a claimed power role. But I know it's too late for a GK or T-Bone lynch to go through, so:

Unvote

Vote: Jason

It's preferable to a no-lynch. Jason is now at L-1.

Check.


Fucking what are we doing, folks?

Vote: Triangle123

[GreyICE]

vote: Starbuck

for now I don't want the day to end yet but grey, exactly why is acos town?

As for Starbuck's claim, I do agree that the timing of it feels off and it's scummy that she would be so convinced that Kortul must have hid behind her. That said, I just don't see her Tierce-vote in Day 1 as a bus because at the time, there wasn't much of a Tierce wagon to speak of. It doesn't make sense that she would try to sacrifice a competent buddy like that. For now, she remains a town read of mine.

Well tierce wasn't deep cover anymore by that point, not only had grey been attacking her for a while but she'd also look bad after Jason flipped town. I think it makes sense for someone to distance in this situation since Jason was playing badly and likely to be lynched anyway (Remember we had Acos and t-bone both sitting off the wagon but claiming the other was scum with Jason, so no matter their alignment those were effectively Jason votes in reserve.)

CMAR: so your plan was to be lynched? Sure that works if we have an even number of players going into the endgame as it's a free town kill, but what if we had an odd number?

The wagon on Acosmist is just so mediocre. Day 2 started Thursday morning, and ended Saturday afternoon, meaning it lasted barely over 48 hours. In that time we very rapidly discovered a Hider guilty on a player. Hider. Guilty. It makes a cop guilty look like a weak and flimsy thing. There's not even 'what if the cop is fakeclaiming' because the hider is confirmed town.

Acosmist did pretty much what I've done to hider guilties (LOL VOTE TARGET LOL). I mean why bother justifying vote? Money in bank.

And he's been generally hostile and combative, which is something Tierce would have commented on if he was scumbuddies with her - she would at least want to guide the town's opinion, either for his benefit or hers. As a townie, she'd be like 'heh he'll get himself wagonned soon enough.' I mean why is he really being wagonned? For being scummy, or for being annoying?

Triangle

actually bothered to do a role analysis of the serial killer's claim, complete with bells and whistles, to explain why he was voting for... someone a hider died from hiding behind. Hello trying to hard. Throw in the defense of Tierce (while exclaiming she was a null read, and backing up her 'softclaim power role' stuff) and my god why wouldn't you kill him?

Starbuck

? Why would she claim after the incredibly obvious breadcrumb? Why does it appear she didn't even read the thread?

HER FIRST POST DAY 2 WAS THAT CLAIM. The claim shows no evidence that she read anything past the flip. NOTHING.

Who opens the thread, reads the flips, panics, leaves the 'post reply' window open for 24 hours while thinking up a role claim to explain how a hider could die if they hid behind you?

Yeah, not-town.

[GreyICE]

I'm not disagreeing with that Starbuck, but it doesn't seem like a TOWN dumb noob mistake.

[GreyICE]

Fine. Whatever. Acosmist vote on the SK really is no indication of his alignment. I wasn't saying it was. I was adding it along with his Day 1 play as a reason to call him scum. His poor Day 1 play however is an indication of his alignment in my opinion. Since you pointed this out Grey, you say Tierce would have tried to deflect on Acosmist is they were scum together. In that same vein, why did Acomist ignore Tierce completely? If you do a quick CTRL + F of Acomist's ISO, Tierce doesn't show up at all. His only interactions of any meaning were with Starbuck and Kortul. So since Acosmist wasn't interacting with anyone, and with Jason close to a lynch, what makes you draw the conclusion that Tierce ignoring Acosmist rules him as town? We can play the WIFOM game all day here. If Acosmist is scum, than Tierce did a great job of convincing you he's town. Mission accomplished for Tierce. Personally I can't hold any stock in what another player did when what Acomist has done (or rather hasn't done) is all on him. His low content doesn't include any scum hunting. It includes a lot of hostility which reads "I got caught for the wrong reasons". Which I can understand. One of my original reasons was that he was playing like I did in a previous game. Everything Acosmist has done since, all the insults, the hostility, the lurking, and the non-content tell me he's upset because he thinks he's getting called scum for the wrong reasons. I'd expect a townie to explain why they aren't scum rather than attack their accuser.

Did he vote the SK? Sure. But everyone wants to get rid of the SK so that doesn't make him town either.

Bottom line, Acosmist is the best lynch today. His scum (or town) flip opens up more possibilities, because of the selectiveness he has shown with his interactions with other players this game. I think a scum-Acosmist says a lot about Starbuck for example.

Admittedly Starbuck, coming out and roleclaiming to explain kortul's death, that seemed a little panically to me. Starbuck, why does town-Starbuck panic in this situation? So what if he hid behind you. If you are town, why does that matter? I could understand if everyone was like "kortul hid behind Starbuck" but no one made that assertion.

Talk to me about Triangle, T-Boner.

Because I'm thinking CMAR and Starbuck might both be town. And GK is town, and Zang is most definitely town, so that leaves me running low on Triangle buddies. And triangle is definitely scum.

[GreyICE]

His poor Day 1 play however is an indication of his alignment in my opinion.

Full meta on me, now.

Acosmist

The triangle needs to die.

Agree/disagree?

[GreyICE]

I said that? Because I don't think I ever said that.

I said Triangle jumping in and defending Tierce and saying she wouldn't intentionally lurk as scum and then labeling her null and jason town and then voting jason anyway is worthy of death.

And I said Starbuck needs to die.

And I said Iecerint should go the way of the Dodo.

These are all true things.

[GreyICE]

Grey, your reads and have been shifting throughout the day. On me, for example - Starbuck needs to die, Starbuck is so town, Starbuck must be lynched with fire, Starbuck may be town.

You haven't been able to settle on a suspect since the start of the game.

I settled on two. Tierce and Iecerint.

Opinions on Triangle now, Starbuck, with a little diary of what you think of that Tierce interaction.

[GreyICE]

And furthermore, if I was scum and knew for certain Jason was going to flip town, would I really admit he's a town read, call Tierce a null read, and then vote for his lynch?

Why put this in? Why not leave your reply as it is, and say you were misinterpreted? Why "Oh and even if that happened..."?

Why is this apparent counterfactual even in your mind?

GreyICE, Starbuck opinion plz

You called him town several times (172, 282), you couldn't 180 and call him scum, but when the wire came down with wagons tied you wanted your "town read" dead over actual scum - who you called null, yet spent more time defending than your so-called town read.


And do you really think her last minute attacks on you give you town cred?

Okay Triangle is scum.

Let's lynch.

(although I admit Acosmist could sell me on his own wagon at this pace)

[GreyICE]

Can I have a triangle lynch plox? It seems quite evident scum are content to ride out the day with things exactly like they are right now.

[GreyICE]

Acosmist: Can't speak for others but the reason I'm not going after t-bone over his incorrect statements is because I agree with his overall assessment of your low interaction with the day 1 wagons, even if his ISO reading is sloppy. I don't think sloppy iso reading is an alignment tell because it doesn't make sense as optimal play for either town or scum.

CMAR: lol @ 735, how about you explain that one. I thought I was clearly town due to Tierce's attitude towards me.


I'm not sure why we are all reading triangle interactions differently but here's my analysis of day 1 between tierce/triangle/myself

Triangle starts by attacking me for the way I voted Zang

Tierce posts basically "I agree with everything triangle said, she is town" - this makes more sense as scum trying to buddy town to me, because it's clearly encouraging triangle to further attack me, and it is rare for scum to make this strong a statement about fellow scum this early in the game

At this point my wagon stalls out - I think it's acos / starbuck / triangle / zang at this point. Tierce then suddenly pulls a 180 dismisses me as town on a meta-read - this was why I questioned her on day 1. Given her scumflip the motivation is clear, because I am defending myself and others are defending me she doesn't think I will be lynched, so she's distancing herself from my wagon to look good

Triangle continues to argue with me for a while but, unlike starbuck, I didn't read her argument techniques as scummy so we both let it drop. (I also picked up a weak town read on zang from the insistence that I explicitly retract my tell on him.)

Later on triangle comments that she doesn't think tierce would deliberately lurk as scum - This is probably the most suspicious thing about triangle at this point, but look at what tierce does: she's feeling under some pressure since Greyice is calling her scum and she's been stalling on answering my question for a while. Triangle has made a wrong statement about her meta so tierce overreacts to it in order to fake scumhunting. I also think she's actively trying to make triangle look bad here, which reads as scum vs town.

Triangle's final vote on Jason where she's lynching a bad VT read over a possible PR. Disagree with the play, but I don't think her explanation is a scum tell as such. If she's scum with Tierce there's tons of easier scum excuses to vote Jason that would look less suspicious.

So I don't see Triangle as a likely tierce scum partner.

Lets say I provisionally agree with you since this logic isn't terrible, and you're probably my strongest town read.

Who do you want to lynch? I will note Tierce will attack her scumbuddies, and she had to know she was going down soon, so I don't think it's as strong a town tell as you think, but I will wagon someone like T-Bone if you want. I almost want to call for a mass claim, because with three lynches if we could clear one of Acosmist/T-Bone/Triangle off a claim we'd be cooking with gas.

Starbuck, I dunno. Her claim was so bad, so, so, so bad. But she was the only person to push Tierce with me early, and it was with very similar reasoning to mine.

So what's our options? Because I'm seriously not letting T-Boner and the lurkettes define this lynch.

[GreyICE]

I definitely agree with the bead on Acosmist, but I will hold my vote for now because I want to go back and read him over.

Starbuck, what was the result of the readover on Acosmist?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[GreyICE]

Also, for reference, my town list is as follows:

Zang - so many town tells it's not even funny
Greenknight - great interactions with Tierce, match his interactions with me. Just very natural and fluid. Hammer on Jason felt accurate to town forced to hammer at end-of-day.
CMAR - contingent on him dying, he can be town.

The rest is a big pile of stuff that's up in the air.

[GreyICE]

Vote: T-bone

Is it counterintuitive? Yeah

But he's scum.

[GreyICE]

I still want a starbuck or acosmist lynch at this point

Starbuck is legit, but read over T-Bone's ISO.

Don't you get that sticky feeling in the back of your throat that says 'ohhhhh god he's not town at all and I don't know why and I need to put my finger on it but yeah?'

I mean tell me it's not just me, he's just... dead. Not like 'I don't know what's going on' dead, just 'I have no soul but I must post' dead.

[GreyICE]

Hi folks.

Read plox.

I'm interested in this 180 on the Tierce lynch.

We have come close to lynching Jason and GK, and in less than a page she is the leading wagon.

The quick turnaround bothers me. I do understand the reasonings for it.

The over-reliance on self-meta is a defense I don't like, and as a townie you don't need to do it, when you can point to stuff in this game. I find it incredibly scummy when someone goes "LOOK! LOOK! Look at me be town in this other game! Look at me have this same reaction/belief/policy in another game." I hesitate on the vote, because I am much more confident in my read in Acosmist. He is scum folks. No doubt in my mind. I've pointed out the reasons before...but to recap...he's taking a stance on the leading wagons (Jason and GK) that is scummy. Coincidentally the top two wagons just happen to be his top two scumreads. Misrepping what I said to discredit my case. He isn't justifying his scummy actions, he's trying to discredit me as a player. He's peppered in some insults, and finally has voted me despite never expressing a scumread on me before I started voting him. He is scum staring us in the face. I think because of his stance on Jason/GK he is linked with one of them. More likely to be linked with Jason, because I don't think he's scum, and his vote is on Greenknight. So he can express suspicion of his buddy Jason, while voting GK and getting the mislynch. Only when pressured does he abandoned this view completely.

Acosmist, so what do you think of Tierce. Is she scum too? Do we have a Jason/GK/Tierce scumteam? They are coincidentally the leading lynch choices today, and your top two scumreads are two of these three already. Or am I scum with Jason/GK? As a matter of fact, why am I scum? I don't think you've ever said anything why except that you don't like my case on you.

I maintain that Acosmist is scum. I think his stance on Jason and GK means he is linked with one of them, and I'd much prefer to see a Jason lynch if no one will follow me on Acomist. I think if Jason flips scum, Acomist has painted a clear link between himself and Jason. I'm not considering GK as scum with Acomist right now because I consider GK scum. Though I will admit I might be using confirmation bias a little bit, because I think Acomist will end up being scum no matter what, so someone else should think about this link and give me their thoughts.

The quick turnaround bothers me.

I do understand the reasonings for it.

Lynch plox.

[GreyICE]

I'm frustrated with both Acos and T-bone if either of them is town because it's taken until close to the end of day 3 and them being the two leading wagons to even get them to properly address each others' points. Acos had several votes on him throughout the day and reacted by putting up a "T-bone said I never justified this vote and I did" shield and generally ignoring everything else. For T-bone's part he let Acos keep hiding behind that shield by never clearing it up. I think it's more of a "bad town" tell than a scumtell though, so my scumread on acos has weakened a bit after this round of reactions and is mainly based on his day 1 voting activity and failure to take a stance on Tierce. T-bone still a slight town read. I'm not in love with his play, it has been sloppy. But I'm not reading it as scummy misrep. It's clear that Acos and T-bone's playstyles are diametrically opposed.

If you want an alternate wagon vote starbuck. just to add to the case against her

- trying to spread confusion a couple of pages back by misrepresenting what happened end of day 1 and trying to link greyice and myself as scum (I don't buy this as a reaction test, she already poked at greyice at the start of the day over his vote on me)
- she has a lot of games on mafiascum and suddenly can't get the vote format right? Really? Oh wait, there's an explanation: she said her rush to claim on day 2 was based on being used to offsite meta, so she's trying to fabricate some more evidence that she's used to offsite meta

Also Triangle, Acos, why don't you have a read on Starbuck after her attacks on you today?

This man could not actually be more town if he was an innocent child.

I agree with preeeetttyyy much everything he's saying, with the exception I think Acosmist is my slight town read who I'm not in love with the play of.

[GreyICE]

What three day tunnel?

No one was particularly attacking you day 1, day 2 it was me and Korlash calling for your blood.

And Korlash got shot last night.

I haven't really forgotten this.

[GreyICE]

Not you, I was referring to greenknight whose main focus has been on me since Day 1. He has had a spattering of other talk, but always returns to me. Then the whole baseless BS up above just makes me feel like he's just horrid town/VI.

Really?

Let's do this by ISO.

ISO 0, 1, 2: RVS stuff
ISO 3, 4, 5: Pushes Zang
ISO 6: General event discussion
ISO 7, 8: Pushes me
ISO 9: Questions Tierce, while explaining him reasoning (and it makes sense)
ISO 10, 11: Stuffers
ISO 12: More push on me, explaining to townies, solid
ISO 13, 14: Error posts
ISO 15, 16, 17, 18, 19: More push on me, explains himself to town. Remains consistent
ISO 20: Questions T-Bone
ISO 23: Questions Triangle, pushes
ISO 25: Pushes me

ISO 26: First push on Starbuck!

ISO 27, 28, 29, 30: Continues!

Oh look at this! Greenknight did the same push on Zang and then me! The pattern was identical. He identified points that he didn't like, and questioned and pushed until satisfied! It could NOT be fucking townier if he was waving a flag that said "innocent child," and it doesn't resemble a tunnel in the least.

[GreyICE]

Unvote, Vote: Starbuck

Okay!

[GreyICE]

Holy hell.

I say no to mass claim, but if there's a jailkeeper/roleblocker you claim 100%. No way did scum no-kill last night.

[GreyICE]

Well now, the setup is 99.5% likely to be 6/1, so we have 3(+1) lynches to LyLo. CMAR either gets shot before LyLo or lynched in LyLo and then we either win or leave the game in his hands (If we can't do it in 3 lynches, I'm okay with leaving this to CMAR) so he's basically not even close to on the table.

Greenknight should basically be confirmed town for his interactions with Acosmist, plus gameplay, plus pretty much everything.

Hell, I'd almost be happy with a mass claim, if we can confirm 1 more townie with greenknight we can pretty much kill everything else, and I'm fine with dying in the pursuit of the victory.

[GreyICE]

But yeah, commuter, bulletproof serial killer, another protective role... so okay with this btw.

Vote: Starbuck

[GreyICE]

So, why me, Grey?

Case, please.

1) We have three lynches, and I have town reads on Zang and Greenknight, CMAR isn't dying, and I'm willing to give T-Boner a day for Acosmist. Although it's probably not a horrible scum strategy to ignore the kafluffle between Tierce/Jason, trust Tierce being good and your night kills to pull you through and distance like hell.
2) You're scum
3) LOL@ three different ways to stop kills (unless you think scum no-killed last night)
4) Dat claim, dat claim

[GreyICE]

Do we still want to lynch CMAR and get his Vengekill going?

NEVAH

CMAR WILL LIVE UNTIL LYLO

OR UNTIL SCUM SHOOT HIM

MY GOD VENGEFUL TOWNIE IN LYLO, GAME 100% DECIDED BY CONFIRMED TOWN

AND IF HE IS SCUM, LOL AT HOW BAD THE NEXT FEW DAYS ARE GOING TO SUCK FOR HIM

[GreyICE]

Do we still want to lynch CMAR and get his Vengekill going?

Why would you ever suggest this even?

In what scenario does this help the town?

[GreyICE]

If he's scum, then we win. That's how it helps. That was your plan yesterday. What changed?

If he's scum we win if we lynch him on day 3 or day 6. Nothing changes, T-Bone. We don't get points for having more townies alive.

Why are you trying to invent a lynch on someone who will never ever ever be lynched before 3P LyLo?

[GreyICE]

Because if we lynched town yesterday, today would be 4:2 (in theory). Then we lynch the vengeful, and he can shoot for a second lynch. If he's scum, well, jackpot. If he's town, well, if he hits scum we go to a proper 2:1 LyLo and our numbers are evened out.

The successful protect last night means that it's 6:1, which means that he de-evens the numbers. That's terrible, we like odd numbers. But in Lylo, well, if we lynch him and he's town, there's still 1 townie alive, and he gets to take a shot. 50/50. Or he's scum and lulz.

Whose your other suspect? Triangle? I'm not against a Triangle lynch.

[GreyICE]

Grey, why did you leave triangle out of your 846?

Because he's on the list of people who must die.

I mean seriously.

Must die.

Like I'm not even close to joking here.

[GreyICE]

Waiting for greenknight to come and tell me who he blocked so we can win this shit (or triangle I suppose, but more likely greenknight). I guess I'll read and answer your questions though.

MoI is not anti-doctors in the least. Doctor-hider has some hilarious anti-synergy going as far as the doctor on the investigative role goes. And we are dealing with a scumteam that's heavy on the goons (2 goons, that's nonstandard for MoI games, meaning this is lower powered).

[GreyICE]

Vote: Triangle

Welp

[GreyICE]

Alright, I'd like to make a proposal.


Starbuck:

1) We have her claim (heh) so we know even if we lynch town we're not lynching an important power role.
2) The timing of the claim was terribly suspect
3) Her interaction with the Acosmist wagon was terrible.

Triangle:

1) Has not done much, practically period

*sigh*

Vote: Starbuck

This is the right vote.

[GreyICE]

I'm not the scum that you are looking for.

It's so weak because you even admit that you think that I can be town. That's not good reasoning for Day 4 at all.

Actually, with three scum dead on day 4, it's GREAT reasoning for day 4.

[GreyICE]

I think Triangle is at L-2.

That being said, barring a really good claim I'm fine with hammering triangle. I just want this day to end and to get some momentum back for tomorrow.

[GreyICE]

I could definitely support a greenknight lynch. I thought maybe it was just us butting heads as town. At this point, though, there's been enough other stuff going on to keep focus off of him.

Who wouldn't you support a lynch on, out of curiousity?

Because you have expressed support for pretty much every bandwagon to come down the pipes.

I would have expected town-Starbuck to be a tad less... promiscuous.

[GreyICE]

It could definitely be T-Bone and if it is, then he's got all of us fooled. It could also be triangle. Grey could definitely be a contender as well, especially for the jump off of the Acosmist lynch.

Mmmmm

I see

[GreyICE]

Oookay.

So, who do you actually have a town read on?

[GreyICE]

Oh come on, lets just ride one wagon home already.

We gain nothing by this stupid holding pattern. Nothing. If you want Starbuck alive in 3-player LyLo, give a damn good reason in your next post.

[GreyICE]

Grey, you've been doing the same thing that I have. Not being sure of who could be our scum. You've done it every day by hopping around on almost everyone vote wise.

Right now, connections are all we have.

Connections AND CLAIMS.

Like claiming 1-shot commuter right after a hider claimed to explain how the hider could have possibly died while targeting you.

I can't come up with a single reason to want you alive in 3P LyLo, and I doubt anyone else can either.

[GreyICE]

T-Bone was obviously bussing.

Why was I the only one who saw this

[GreyICE]

I don't how on the last day, with 2 scum and a serial killer dead, to a flipped Vengeful Townie, 1-shot commuter, and Hider that the issue of WHETHER OR NOT THE DOCTOR WAS TOWN WHEN THE OTHER TWO PLAYERS HAD CLAIMED VT came up.

*sigh*

MoI produces balanced games. No, they're not necessarily mathematically balanced to utter perfection (no one's games are) but they're not gonna be charlie foxtrots where the town has three mediocre to horrible power roles against 3 scum and an SK.

Greenknight was confirmed town, and Triangle and T-Bone should have crossvoted immediately.

Ye gods.

P.S. If that wasn't enough, why in all the thousands lands would Greenknight have ever shot me? He would have shot practically anybody else.

[GreyICE]

Urgh, I played horrible this game. Sorry town. Congrats scum. GrayICE how many fucking times do we have to go down the road of you and I shouting scum at each other FFS. It hurt town more than anything this game.

I honestly don't feel responsible for your single-minded obsession with me. I ended day 1 with my vote on scum and a wagon on her that was near-completion.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, well, you were scum. You're forgiven for not figuring out confirmed town is confirmed town and all.