Mini 1353 - Dr. Who Mafia - The End of Time (Game Over)

[jasonT1981]

VOTE: Zang

sounds like a Dr Who bad guy

On Serious note, I don't believe GrayICE for a second on his claim.

[jasonT1981]

Was my random vote.... like it, hate it... don't care. It will more than likely be removed by tomorrow morning.

I thought Zang sounds like a Dr who villian

[jasonT1981]

The fact Zang/Gray have history is reason for Gray to investigate him off the bat.

It is also a reason why he would lie.... I believe this to be the case.

GrayICE are you prepared to go into a 1vs1 with Zang day 1... IE we lynch him and he flips town, we lynch you tomorrow for being proven to be lying?

Am also thinking GrayICE maybe a 3rd party lyncher.

[jasonT1981]

CMAR is right--daycops are definitely not that prevalent in themes. Daycop

jokes

are much, much more common.

The fact Zang/Gray have history is reason for Gray to investigate him off the bat.

It is also a reason why he would lie.... I believe this to be the case.

GrayICE are you prepared to go into a 1vs1 with Zang day 1... IE we lynch him and he flips town, we lynch you tomorrow for being proven to be lying?

Am also thinking GrayICE maybe a 3rd party lyncher.

Do you want fries to go with that fence and water-testing? First you're saying that Grey has good reason to investigate Zang. Then that he can also be lying. Then you go on about a 1v1 that is OBVIOUS if Grey is telling the truth and makes no sense if he's not, so you're just testing how strong is the animosity between them. And end with a ridiculous lyncher notion, because everyone lynches off daycop claims on D1.

You're hardly inexperienced, jason. Why this post?
The protown behavior-reactions would be likely to be: 1) dismiss it as an obvious joke or 2)

ask

. You chose 3) sowing confusion.

Let's see if you understand what else is behind door #3:
UNVOTE: Iecerint
VOTE: jasonT1981

Simply analyzing and pointing out all possible reasons for it. I never once laughed off role cop idea, I just said I don't but believe GrayICE.

with that...

UNVOTE:

I want GreyICE to put his money were his mouth is, and see if he is willing to back it up.

Back on Monday. Travelling all day tomorrow, wont have access to a computer until I get home Sunday night.

[jasonT1981]

So Jason has the 'fencesitting' and Green has the backwards logic... Zang's 65 irks me...

I am pretty sure that saying I don't believe GrayICE is not fence sitting, but taking a position.

I merely pointed out some of the possible scenarios which has been twisted to fence sitting.

[jasonT1981]

be still my beating hearts! LOLGrayICE

I call it BS, he admits it and votes me..

yawn, hows that butt hurt?

[jasonT1981]

be still my beating hearts! LOLGrayICE

I call it BS

, he admits it and votes me..

yawn, hows that butt hurt?

Did you?

Because from where I'm standing, you even claimed you weren't laughing off the possibility of a daycop, just 'analyzing all the possibilities', ridiculous as they were:

Yes

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p4152755]
On Serious note, I don't believe GrayICE for a second on his claim.[/quote]


Im pretty sure thats not fence sitting, but taking a position on it.

my follow up post, was simply putting forward some possible scenarios for what is going on in regards to Gray. Low and behold,

Don't like it, deal with it...

But to push I was fence sitting is BS. Now, im off to wash my long blonde hair (yes, its been dyed) and I am away for weekend...I plan on being so drunk I end up on the planet Messaline (or find myself in a void HAHAHA)

tootdles!

[jasonT1981]

Im back. catching up after dinner

[jasonT1981]

only up to page 6, bear with me please

Gray is probably faking, but Zang is taking the fact that people are voting him based on an "obvious lie" from a player he has history with too calmly imo.

Vote: Zang

This, left a bad taste in my mouth. "Oh he isn't freaking out he must be scum".

What if he was freaking out, would you use that as an excuse to vote?

So Jason has the 'fencesitting' and Green has the backwards logic... Zang's 65 irks me...

please show me eexactly where I am fence sitting, please.. don't like how Korlash says Zangs post Irks him but doesnt go into any more details.

This dude though, this dude is not town at all.

Vote: JasonT1981

Acosmist is town, probable other scum is Greenknight and Starbuck.

Alright, GrayICE... lets call you on this, why exactly am I not town?

Greenknight's explanation was good enough for me. My vote was to pressure him, not to try and go into a full head of steam lynch. I disagree with his reasons, but just because I disagree with him doesn't mean I have to think of him as scum.

town posting... I think if TBone was scum he would not have unvoted and continued to challange and make a thing of it... he is letting it go so I think town. Scum would have pushed.

Im pretty sure thats not fence sitting, but taking a position on it.

taking what amounts to a 'fake' position does not excuse the fence sit mate. You start off the post with reasons he could be telling the truth, say you think he is lying, then suggest a play that relies on him telling the truth.

Well, lets see, how is saying I dont believe it taking a fake position? I pushed Gray to give more information and he admitted he was lying...

how is that taking a fake position.

[jasonT1981]

BAH Quote fail lol

[jasonT1981]

Has GrayICE actualy done anything productive aside from shout SCUM SCUM SCUM?

GrayICE shut the fuck up for once in your pathetic life

[jasonT1981]

Yea, looking at GrayICE this guy has added nothing to the game and just spouting scum scum scum at anything without any further backing up or reasoning.

vote: GrayICE

[jasonT1981]

So, the fact I continued to push GrayICE on the matter, is me fence sitting, Korlash?

[jasonT1981]

Hey GrayICE shut the fuck up! Do something productive and back up your shit.

[jasonT1981]

T-Bone - Town his 127 is great.
Zang Town

Scum so far would be

Starbuck - some posts seem forced, trying to blend in
GrayICE - Needs to do something other than shout scum from the rooftops.

[jasonT1981]

if it helps I see his fight with you as town / town...

its getting late, blagh. night folks

[jasonT1981]

Bah! My frustration got to me last night with GrayICE. Team Mafia I was able to put up with his crap, as I knew he was town with me being scum. But not knowing what he is, is pissing off as hell when he does this shit. He needs to actually do something other than scream scum. Reasons, theories, connections, why are things scummy, why is person X scummy.

My vote stays until he pulls his finger out of his ass and does something and backs up his shit.

Gray.. why am I scum?
why is Starbuck scum?

Someone asked what seemed town vs town... I don't think scum would want to be drawn into a tit for tat exchange like it was. Often in day 1 we have town going at it with each other while scum slink away letting town fight it out. That is why I get the feeling it is town vs town.

[jasonT1981]

please show me eexactly where I am fence sitting, please.. don't like how Korlash says Zangs post Irks him but doesnt go into any more details.

You give a reason ICE could be telling the truth, then say you believe he is lying, and then submit a proposal that hinges on him telling the truth. That is playing both sides, cementing a stand on side A while pushing side B.

When you take a stand on Side A and then continue to play over in Side B, that is tantamount to taking no side at all. The stance on Side A is as good as face value for when Side B blows up. The fact someone says "Fence sit" and you go "no no no, look I took a stance here... let me show you..." kinda proves my fucking point.

Luckily for you, the situation in question is a claimed guilty which means there HAS to be some playing in the other field which makes this fence sit very minor. Your reaction to it obviously makes it worse, but I still think it's minor compared to other things (and that other elements in this game also suggest you are town...)

Second off, no. You have done nothing to contradict voting ICE(in any sense) and thus there is no fence sitting.

Hey, Korlash... these two basically quotes from you heavily contradiction themselves..

one post you say I am fence sitting or something like it

then say in next there is no fence sitting

Which is it, mate>?

[jasonT1981]

@greenknight - can you tell your current read on GreyICE?

Suspicious. On the one hand, I believe Zang and Jason's statements that he is playing according to normal meta. However, I still view Grey's reluctance to explain his reads until others have taken positions as anti-town. For example: the question of my alignment has been the most divisive thing in the game so far, and his unexplained read is that I was scum while my wagon was growing - and now that the wagon has stalled out I might be town and triangle, who voted me, is suspicious. Very convenient if he's scum. At least he's started posting actual content now.

Am I anti-town
Or scum

The masses want to know

you are ALWAYS anti-town with how you play.

[jasonT1981]

You were not saying that in Team Mafia

[jasonT1981]

Urgh

UNVOTE:

My vote was more out of complete frustration with GrayICE and his playstyle. However, yes it was short sighted of me as he always does this and is a null tell on him despite it being anti-town.

I want to look closer at Starbuck though.

[jasonT1981]

Jason... What exactly do I always do?

Have I not already answered that LOL.

Whatg I mean is you call scum/town in every game I have seen you in without really backing up anything and lead a charge so to speak calling for their lynch with doing minimal work yourself expecting others to go solely of your word on who is scum.

[jasonT1981]

simple... to test just how serious your claim was.

I would say it matches your play in most games though.

[jasonT1981]

Yes... I didn't believe it. I knew asking you to 1 on 1 would show how serious you are.

If you were really day cop with guilty you would have had no problem with a 1 vs 1 as you know you would have a scum flip in Zang. If you 1vs1 and he flipped town, I would have called for your head day 2.

If you were telling truth, you would have had no issue going forward with a scum guilty on Zang

Basically, I was pushing you to see how truthful you were being... turns out I was right.

[jasonT1981]

my zang vote was RVS... not serious

[jasonT1981]

And what is the town motivation for claiming a guilty on someone you don't have?

[jasonT1981]

you sound like my lynch is a sure thing?

and reactions, what do you mean by that?

[jasonT1981]

Seriously, we are still on the fence sitting shit, long after its been shown I took a clear position? wow talk about grasping at straws

[jasonT1981]

Acosmist, why is Jason scum? Why is Green? What do you think of Starbuck?

Jason's attitude in response to GreyICE and more seems to be more about procedure than substance. He's mad. He's flipped out. In fact, he's still flipping out about "fence-sitting". I'm going to butcher a joke about alternative pleading to explain what I mean. Someone is busted for possession. His defenses are "I never had anything on me" and "The cops who found the drugs I had on me didn't have a warrant." Jason seems to be mad about being caught, about the

way

people have come around to the belief that he's scum..

Im sorry, but where have I shown I am mad at 'getting caught' IF you bothered to even read the game you will see my frustration was

1)With GrayICE being... well, GrayICE
2) The whole 'OMG Jason is fence sitting' thing still being brought up when its been clearly proven, and stated by many I was taking positions.

If you look at Team Mafia, I let GrayICE coast without really calling him out on his random scum reads with no substance, because as scum I knew he was town and going in the wrong direction and leading us to a win. Here I am very frustrated with him, as I don't know his alignment and as town his actions really irritate me to high dough
You sir, are full of crap and for once I do agree with GrayICE.

[jasonT1981]

See posts like 284, 287, and 289?

I'm not reading those

you should. Stop being a GrayICE, if you were truly town, you would be reading everything so as to absorb all information. As scum, you don't have to read everything.

[jasonT1981]

So many things to do, so little time. Knowing how to fly a TARDIS is a bit irrelevant when you don't have one accessible at the moment.

TL;DR: Post tomorrow, must review T-Bone, and was that a kortul vote I saw somewhere? Grey, you should know better.

HE'S SCUM

DAMMIT

LOOK AT HIM

SCUM

No, why don't you fucking do something and explain to us why you have these fucking scum reads on people FFS

[jasonT1981]

OH FUCK OFF

How many times has it been proven I was not fence sitting and took a fucking stance.

[jasonT1981]

RVS Zang (which anyone who questions that was RVS is being stupid)

So, a vote on Page 1, saying it sounds like a dr who villian is a stupid vote?

Fencesits (Jason, come on bud, you were doing it)

proven I have not been

Defends himself profusely

Kinda had to, haven't I?

Attacks Grey for calling out scum without reasoning and votes

Yes, this is very frustrating, all shouting, no reasoning... tell me thats not annoying?

Says his views on Grey are shortsighted and unvotes

Yes, he does it most games I have seen him do it. Already said vote was out of frustration

Keeps attacking Grey

Gray still giving no reasoning, so attack is valid

Makes cases on no one else

Kinda hard to make cases when I am having to defend myself all the time on the fence sittng that keeps being brought up despite being proven wrong

Defends himself with meta saying that by his attacking Grey that makes him town

No, simply making a point about how I reacted to Gray as scum in another game

Nah bro, you're scum.

Wish me a happy V/LA!

[jasonT1981]

Scum lies in

Tierce
kortul
triangle123
Acosmist

middle of the road

GrayICE
Cryme a river


Town

Starbuck
GreenKnight
Ice
T-Bone
Korlash

[jasonT1981]

No, why don't you fucking do something and explain to us why you have these fucking scum reads on people FFS

And three posts later you do the same thing?

Sucks balls, don't it. Was done on purpose to make a point

[jasonT1981]

Yes, I do intend to give my reasons later tonight or tomorrow, shattered from work and going to lie down for an hour. I believe I missed 2 people on that list, sorry. Will update with them included when I post next.

[jasonT1981]

OK Time to justify my scum reads, sporry been at work quite a bit recently, this is the busiest week of the summer in Northern Ireland (12th July marching season) so things have been flat out. So here goes

Tierce.. I really do not like this post, it seems he is ready to base scum of claimed characters which seems like an easy ride

Also claiming to be Davros, not a good move...

Dude, the hell? xD
That's

definitely

not Davros. Think Unicorn and the Wasp.

Basing scum/town of characters I have found to never be a good idea in themes. Voting simply on names is not good

secondsly he was the one who pushed the fence sitting in the first place on me also this I think is a flag

Grey. Teamwork. Please.
You need to realize the fact that you're in a team and that the kortul wagon has no pull today, so move on to the next best case. Compromise..

What team would that be?



kortul, more a gut read. Sorry but want to address this

Just finished reassessing

jasonT1981

. Did the double ISOs Jason/Tierce and Jason/Korlash (since both Tierce and Korlash are my town reads, i am not going to do their ISOs anytime soon, and they have some walls with him, so reading such ISOs is easier), and then i had to do Jason/Grey ISO to carefully read their exchange (since most of the time they don't use quotes).

I have to admit that my read on Jason changed. There isn't one big thing pointing that Jason is scum, but there are several points that do accumulate in a scum read on him. And no, fence sitting isn't one of them.

When Jason did his 1v1 post, i took it more as a townish warning. In a recent dialogue with GreyICE he said, that it was done "to test just how serious your claim was" and farther commented "I was pushing you to see how truthful you were being", and looking back that changes things. It is no longer a townish warning, but anti-town pressing. If Jason really had no doubts that Grey is lying, then pushing if Grey is scum is rather silly, we don't want him to take the claim back, since 1v1 trade with scum benefits town. And pushing if Grey is town can have unpredictable results, given his playing style.

Moreover, Grey case against Jason makes sense to me now. In post 229, GreyICE asked "Why did you want a 1v1 between me and Zang, Jason". Essentially that led to a:

See the thing is, Jason, if you don't believe the claim, but ALSO believe I might fakeclaim as town, there's no town motivation to vote Zang. If he does get quicklynched, does flip town, and the town does lynch me day 2 the game is essentially over - it'll be two days with zero information and a pile of dead townies.

There's a lot of scum motivation to do that though.

Instead of arguing Jason deflected this by asking for town motivation behind Grey initial claim, and avoided mentioning this afterwards as a point against himself.

There's another example of foul defense, Korlash explained it in post 182. It was based on fence sitting discussion, so i just skimmed through this before, but after careful reading i don't see why there was a need to use such tricks, especially since i don't consider the initial points scummy.

And the main point for me is his general behavior. Jason is too defensive. I thought he needed time to answer accusations, but time passes and nothing changes, which is strange, considering that accusations are most of the time the same. Where's scumhunting? So far he attacked Grey (withdrew) and suspected Starbuck (changed to town without explanations). His scum pool changed, but no explanations yet.

VOTE: jasonT1981

My next ISOs would be on greenknight and Acosmist, hopefully tomorrow.

Yes, I am defensive, why? because I am being attacked...Attack someone, person defends, how the game works. I have already explained my vote and attack on Gray was frustration purely on his playstyle and how it pisses me off. When I calmed down, I realized my vote was not in a good place on Gray as it was more an emotional than logical vote.

Starbuck has changed due to more, and better posts. I am getting a more town feel from her as the game went on.
triangle123 - Did not like the jump on Greenknight, seemed forced
Acosmist - posts a lot but not seeing any real substance from him. seems to be saying things for sake of it rather than gen scum hunting.

middle of the road

GrayICE -playstyle pisses me off, hard to read so can be town or scum
Cryme a river - At time of this he needed to post more, going to ISO tomorrow


Town

Starbuck - posting has been better, and more helpful and genuie
GreenKnight - Seen fight with Korlash as town vs town
Ice - More a netural leaning town.
T-Bone - I li9ke a lot of his posts, I believe I covered them earlier in the game about how I found his posts town
Korlash - seen fight with him and GK as town vs town
Zang - Reaction to claim seemed town to me.

[jasonT1981]

I am missing someone, who am i missing?

[jasonT1981]

he is, read again. I messed up quotes, but he is in there

[jasonT1981]

Fuck this.

Not a single one of Jason's posts reads with anything resembling genuine feeling. Not genuine defense, not genuine frustration, not genuine confusion, not genuine conviction, not genuine anything.

Last post said his feeling was that Zang was town due to his reaction to my claim.

Zang... the person he was voting... and wanted me to 1v1... was probably town... due to my claim.

Zang - the person who my RVS vote was on.

Not a single onew of my reads resemling gen feeling? pot calling kettle black anyone?

L-1. Im VT, Jenny the Drs daughter. crumbed it a few times.

[jasonT1981]

Im resigned to being hammered. I am off to bed and don't expect to be alive when I wake up.

Note to town - DO NOT let GrayICE lead you. He WILL lead town to losing.

[jasonT1981]

Oh fuck you very much, Jason, how did you do in Ghostbusters mafia? Oh that's right, all your scum reads were town, like every one.

wrong, DeltaWave was scum. I was pushing that since D1 of the game

A few have talked about my 1vs1 challange to Gray as to what it was... I was serious. I have seen Gray fake claim a few times day 1 I believe (GB Mafia being the latest with Miller lcaim I believe) and wanted to see how far he woyuld take it. Would he be prepered to keep it up when challanged or let it fade when challanged proving he was talking shite. I believed the latter.. and was correct.

Yes, my vote on Zang was RV, probably stayed on longer than it should and it doesnt look good for me in that respect. It was honestly a RV in spite of Grays claim the vote would have gone on Zang regardless as I thought it sounded like a cool Dr Who villian name.

Jason: why would you talk about my fight with Korlash (which was relatively small disagreement and we both read each other as town), and not Starbuck (we both reach each other as scum)?

Good question, I have no real reason. I see both of you as town and left it at that.

[jasonT1981]

Gray ice - Full scum to town reads, please!

[jasonT1981]

wrong, DeltaWave was scum. I was pushing that since D1 of the game

A few have talked about my 1vs1 challange to Gray as to what it was... I was serious. I have seen Gray fake claim a few times day 1 I believe (GB Mafia being the latest with Miller lcaim I believe) and wanted to see how far he woyuld take it. Would he be prepered to keep it up when challanged or let it fade when challanged proving he was talking shite. I believed the latter.. and was correct.

Yes, my vote on Zang was RV, probably stayed on longer than it should and it doesnt look good for me in that respect. It was honestly a RV in spite of Grays claim the vote would have gone on Zang regardless as I thought it sounded like a cool Dr Who villian name.

That wasn't a fakeclaim you fucking idiot.

Claimed Miller
Flipped VT.

You fucking idiot.

[jasonT1981]

Go read what I wrote in that game.

I said that I was a ghost, and if anyone had a role that investigated ghosts I would investigate as a ghost.

I WAS A MOTHERFUCKING GHOST

no Gray... you claimed Miller, remember?

Oddly we had the power roles for 10-2-1

- tracker (mediocre investigative)
- PGO (kills 2 townies, 2 scum)
-

miller

- 50% sensor affected by miller


So 10:2:1 with only real town power being a tracker isnt very town sided.

[jasonT1981]

IIRC, Jason claimed that he did it because he knew that ICE was lying and wanted him to unclaim (because he gambits like this a lot?), but that seems like an unnatural goal for a town player to have IMPO, severe personal animosity perhaps notwithstanding.

From what I am lead to believe. GrayICE pulls shit like this a lot.

[jasonT1981]

What about starbuck then, what in particular about her posting do you find pro-town?

Sorry, thought I quoted this.

OK, going by DC Universe pre-crash I remember Starbuck to be rather flakey as scum, non committal and in the background not getting into it with anyone and stay low where as here she has had a few confrontations and has not really been staying low.

[jasonT1981]

Grey: If Tierce is scum, why are you on the wagon she's been pushing all day?

Jason needs to fucking die.

And you need to actually do something productive other than shout SCUM... DIE!!!

[jasonT1981]

because im pushing him.

[jasonT1981]

because im pushing him.

You forgot you think I'm town again.

Just fucking curl up and die.

I never once said you were town, prick face.

[jasonT1981]

Grey: If Tierce is scum, why are you on the wagon she's been pushing all day?

Jason needs to fucking die.

What, this is a policy lynch now? @352 you don't think he's going to flip scum.

Also, answer this, Gray.

[jasonT1981]

Jason, where did you bread-crumb?

Oi, was this ever answered?

Missed this, sorry.

be still my beating hearts!

LOLGrayICE

But to push I was fence sitting is BS.

Now, im off to wash my long blonde hair

(yes, its been dyed) and I am away for weekend...

I plan on being so drunk I end up on the planet Messaline

(or find myself in a void HAHAHA)

tootdles!

[jasonT1981]

Back tomorrow, busy weekend with work.

[jasonT1981]

Greenknight, today is your lucky day. I can't let two blatant misrepresentations go. I surely didn't take what triangle said in the way that Tierce did. She's being extremely overdefensive and overreacting to simple observations. I think some questions could be answered with her lynch. Her constant focus on Jason could be a distancing function, and I think we can learn more from a Tierce lynch than a greenknight lynch.

She has admitted to lurking as scum, all these excuses about not being here but nothing about anyone else until today? I think she just gave her own tell away.

Unvote Greenknight
Vote Tierce

I find myself agreeing with Starbuck that we can get a lot from a Tierce lynch today. GK in my opinion will not give as much detail for us to work on. I would be happy to lynch Tie today.

Tierce

[jasonT1981]

Seriously folks, read Tierce's words. Read them? Good.

She's angry that people think she's scum FOR THE WRONG REASONS.

My god, town-tierce would be like "fuck you, it's a town tell because I'm town, so lets move on and I'll do some really good analysis of this game." Scum-Tierce is like "well, I've totally done this as town before, really folks, this is a TERRIBLE reason to lynch me!"

String her up.

Well shit, I actually agree with Gray on something.......wow

[jasonT1981]

Then why aren't you voting for Tierce?

Argh, fuck... I thought I voted him in that last post.. instead I linked to his profile /fail

VOTE: tierce

[jasonT1981]

I find myself agreeing with Starbuck that we can get a lot from a Tierce lynch today. GK in my opinion will not give as much detail for us to work on. I would be happy to lynch Tie today.

Jason

,

so, you are not against GK lynch either, even though he is your townread?

Also, you are agreeing with someone else that "we can get a lot from a Tierce lynch today", and where's "she is scum" part? Do

you

think that Tierce is scum, or are you just happy with her lynch today? If you do think she's scum - tell with your own words what do you find scummy about her and what we can get from her lynch?

Don't twist my words. I never said GK was scum, I see him town. I was saying his lynch would not bring anywhere near as much info as Tierce.

[jasonT1981]

Starbuck, Tierce's interaction with me was based off a misunderstanding regarding rule violations. She thought I might have been referencing an on-going game, and I clarified.

I would much rather take the gamble of lynching Jason over lynching Tierce. If they're both town, he's the one I'd rather lose because he's barely contributing to the game, and I do not want to lynch a claimed power role.

He claimed River song, he didnt claim a town power role....

[jasonT1981]

Urgh, I played horrible this game. Sorry town. Congrats scum. GrayICE how many fucking times do we have to go down the road of you and I shouting scum at each other FFS. It hurt town more than anything this game.