Mini 1354: Vedere le Viste! Game Over!

[Konowa]

As the only name I recognize:

vote: ready2rock

[Konowa]

@Bub: How is my arbitrary vote -any- different from any other early game vote? I see you do not have an issue with Thomith's vote when quite honestly your reasoning could as easily be applied to his vote.

@TheWorst: Thoughts on Bub's vote?

[Konowa]

unvote;
vote: Thomith

[Konowa]

At this point in time?
No.

[Konowa]

Calling my vote BS and stating it reeks of dodging responsibility is hardly a clear RVS vote. Saying as much is disingenuous. I'm not deferring to someone else's opinion, I wanted his [TheWorst] opinion on your vote.

Also, my vote on Thomith is not a "non-wagon RVS vote". It is a real vote. I did not like the way he responded to yabba's vote. Makes me twitch. This early on I will vote on twitches.

Voting without stating my reason at the time is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. As it makes people take stances.

[Konowa]

To describe my early play was to try and end RVS as soon as possible. I think that was accomplished. Now to go back and look at what transpired since then:

Tangion completely ignores my wagon and places a vote on Thomith for being grumpy and then unvotes immediately when called out on it.

Arugula sheeps onto my wagon with an easy “for what others said” post without actually saying anything.

I asked for TheWorst’s opinion on Bub’s vote because he posted afterwards and did not mention anything about it. His response of “eh, it looks like a RVS vote to me” is strange as Bub used strong language in his vote on me. This does not read as uninformed majority to me. The vote on soda is nothing but “hey guys, over here. look at me, I’m scumhunting!!!”.

unvote;
vote: TheWorst

[Konowa]

Pressuring someone into discussion while announcing what you are doing is scum behavior.

[Konowa]

Town scumhunts. Scum want to give off the -appearance- that they are scumhunting. My opinion is that TheWorst falls into the latter category.

[Konowa]

Like I said I never said I was scumhunting. From my POV, I was contributing to town because I offered discussion which is needed on Day 1. There are plenty of people who are still not actively contributing so I feel it's best to have everyone contributing information, thoughts, etc.

This is what I am referring to, however. This reads to me as wanting to be actively involved in the game without actually doing anything. A high noise:signal ratio, I find tends to come more often from scum.

@Arugula: The difference is that whereas others voted, they actually gave their own opinion. You just tagged along for the ride. This seems to be happening quite a bit in this game. Ugh.

yes he is he should start defending him self soon i hope then we can get some more opinions on him

Why are you so worried about others opinions? Form your own.

unvote;
Vote: Tangion

For the vote/unvote of Thomith when called out on it and shameless wagon hop. Also, for the above quote. Wanting to make sure if he is safe on this wagon.

[Konowa]

Tangion needs to be strung up people.

Get to it.

[Konowa]

RXK, your point about Tangion not being able to post is clearly wrong. Tangion had three votes when he asked "Why are you so eager for a quick lynch?".

1)Deflection
2)Blatant misrep

Also, why exactly are you voting Tangion? All I see is that you are bringing up more points about Thomith and all you've said is "lmao what" about Tangion.

[Konowa]

Tangion is scum for the following reasons: 1) It is not the grumpy vote that is scummy, but the immediate withdrawal of said vote when questioned about it 2) Post 84 is scummy because it is testing the waters. He wants to make sure he is safe on the wagon. 3) He votes me in post 82 stating he wants to see how I respond to said pressure and has not followed up on said vote. 4)When I call for more votes on Tangion he deflects and misreps.

The fact that the game has grounded to a snail’s pace now that Tangion is at L-1 also has me all sorts of feeling.

Also, I believed I already explained my early actions. It was a gambit to try and pull the game out of RVS as soon as possible.

---

@Mod and all: I will most likely not be around after today until Monday.

[Konowa]

Konowa - 4 - Scumhunter, SodaSpirit17,

Tangion

, yabbaguy - (L-3)
SodaSpirit17 - 2 - TheWorst, Thomith - (L-5)

Tangion

- 7 - Bub Bidderskins, Konowa,

RXK

, Arugula, Axxle, McStab, Furcolow - (LYNCH)

Vote: Thomith

Post 102.

TheWorst, regarding post 156, there is a big difference. During the wagon on me that yabba claims "stalls", the game pace for the most part continues. However, when Tangion reaches L-2/L-1, the game pace completely takes a dive off the deep end.

Bringing me to yabba: yabba, post 146 regarding my wagon is a fallacy, and you are smart enough to know that.

Thomith and TheWorst are my top two scum reads at this moment, due to interactions revolving around Tangion. yabba is just on the outside of the top two.

Not confirmed, but soda's slot is likely town at this point.

Would like to heard scum reads from Thomith, TheWorst, and yabba.

[Konowa]

You know what?

unvote;
Vote: yabbaguy

[Konowa]

Arugula, I was giving soda's slot a townpass due to Thomith's "Tangion is scummy, but soda is so much more scummy that I am not going to move my vote". Thomith's interactions with known scum led me to believe that soda could not be scum.

That being said, Luckyjt's entrance has blown that belief all to hell. I really have zero idea how he believes that McStab is trying to change the wagon to his slot in a subtle manner. The lack of vote also gets me going.

unvote;
Vote: Luckyjt

I am still down for a yabba lynch, however I want to see where this goes.
Still need to hear from yabba and Thomith as well.

[Konowa]

Scumhunter, that is because you have not really said or done anything that has piqued my interest.

TheWorst, what exactly do you not understand? I am pretty sure all three of my votes have been clear. I am still down for a yabba lynch, but I want to see what happens with this wagon. Especially when yabba and Thomith decide to grace us with their presence. What about this wagon being too quick do you not like?

[Konowa]

Thomith - Leaning Town. Couldn't tell from this game, so I looked at his meta and he was using a lot of weasel words when he was scum in Open 402. Here he looks more sure of himself.

I am not sure how this is. What about his [Thomith] "Tangion is scum, but soda is so much more scummy" post? I mean, with known flip of Tangion being scum, that is almost a classic definition of scum behavior in regards to scumbuddy.

[Konowa]

I fail to see where you are going with this. It reads more that you are criticizing me more for progressing my scumreads than my actual scumreads themselves. I find this very disconcerting. Each time I changed vote, I clearly stated why. As I have said twice before now, I am still for a yabba lynch, his last post did nothing to alleviate my scumread on him, but Luckyjt's entrance was so appaling I changed my vote to him to see how it would evolve. Hell, I would lynch Thomith still due to interactions with Tangion.

unvote;

With McStab's vote, Lucky was at L-1. I do not want Furcolow or someone to sudden hammer again. Lucky needs to both claim and give scumreads in his next post.

[Konowa]

Axxle, Scumhunter, Konowa, TheWorst, McStab

Lucky, these are the five votes that brought you to L-1. You claim that scum are 100% on your wagon. Who is scum within these five? I do not know if you are misusing terms on purpose or not. In 194 you say that Axxle is wagoning again. Axxle was the first person to vote you. Also, the fact that you mention your own meta means it is null to me and I would like you to say who your top two scums are with reads and vote.

207 is nothing but noise. No definitive reads anywhere in that mess.

Mod forgot Axxle's vote on Luckyjt, meaning that Furcolow's vote brings Luckyjt to L-2.

Oops. My bad. Corrected.

---

@Mod: Prod/Any word on Thomith?

Oops. Prod inbound.

[Konowa]

Also, TheWorst please respond to 192.

Point of interest being whether you were criticizing me for progressing my scumreads or the reads themselves.

[Konowa]

So from what I can tell, you [TheWorst] just do not like the way I play. No, I am not always going to list reasons with my votes, as contextually a majority of them make sense. See my vote switch from Thomith to yabbaguy. In context, my vote switch makes plenty of sense. There is also reaction gauging. But, this is dragging to far into theory.

Now as far as Lucky goes, I explained in the post where I voted him why I voted him. His entrance was all sorts of scummy, not because Axxle and Scumhunter voted him.

@Axxle and Arugula: Who is third scum?

I am down for a Thomith/yabbaguy/Luckyjt lynch at this point.

[Konowa]

Yes. This is probably due to the fact that Lucky is actually interacting within the game and giving me something to read off of. The little of what soda did say, did not really give me anything. During N1 while I was reading I came to the conclusion that soda could not be scum due to the fact that Thomith was likely scum with Tangion and Thomith's actions regarding soda. When Lucky entered though, all of that was blown out of the window.

At time of lynch: Konowa - 4 - Scumhunter, SodaSpirit17, Tangion, yabbaguy - (L-3)
I also have a hard time believing that scum would block vote like this. I can see yabba following Tangionscum on a vote, but not Sodascum and Tangionscum. A lot of Bordeaux, I realize.

[Konowa]

At time of lynch: Konowa - 4 - Scumhunter, SodaSpirit17, Tangion, yabbaguy - (L-3)
I also have a hard time believing that scum would block vote like this. I can see yabba following Tangionscum on a vote, but not Sodascum and Tangionscum.

A lot of Bordeaux, I realize.

That is besides the point that the entire game is different degrees of wifom and which makes the most sense.

[Konowa]

Konowa - 4 - Scumhunter, SodaSpirit17,

Tangion

, yabbaguy - (L-3)
SodaSpirit17 - 2 - TheWorst, Thomith - (L-5)

Tangion

- 7 - Bub Bidderskins, Konowa,

RXK

, Arugula, Axxle, McStab, Furcolow - (LYNCH)


I agree that it is plausible. I do not agree that it is probable. However, I find myself going back and going over the plausibility versus probability of everyone on the Tangion wagon being town. Then I really do need a glass of wine.

That being said, I find it a little disconcerting that no one is mentioning Thomith anymore. I would like everyone’s take on Thomith’s interaction with Tangion and whether is he is likely to be scum or not. If you have already done this, please forgive me and just reference.

[Konowa]

Who is scum and why? With a vote.

[Konowa]

Also, did soda perform an action N1? Yes or no only.

[Konowa]

Who else is scum?

Do I really want to go down the outguess the mod path? Halp!

[Konowa]

Vote: Thomith

Going back over everything, I think he is most likely to be scum at the moment due to interactions with known scum.

Lucky, my problem with your list is that you list four people possibly being scum. There are no definitive reads in that anywhere. People hedging their bets is never town.

[Konowa]

@Mod and all: I will be V/LA from Friday afternoon until Monday.

[Konowa]

Elmo, Venmar, who replaced Thomith, is scum due to interaction with known Tangionscum. See post 102. That is the classic definition of scum behavior with regards to a buddy.

@Venmar: Who is scum? Why?

At this point I am more confident in a Venmar lynch than I am a Lucky lynch. Nothing to do with the claim, the interactions are stronger for me.

[Konowa]

Venmar, post 102 is the crux of my arguement. Tangion wagon had two votes on it at the time and Thomith goes "Well I see what you are saying, but this guy is so much more scummy". In my book, that is classic scum behavior.

Who is scum? Why?

[Konowa]

I want some input from Axxle also.
He has said nothing of consequence today.

[Konowa]

Here's my problem though, Scumhunter. You are trying to connect two unknowns [Venmar and Lucky], instead of taking a known into the equation [Tangion].

I see what everyone is saying regarding soda's play around Tangion D1. However, to me it looks more like banter instead of two scum talking to each other.

Thomith's reluctance is much more a definitive scum move than anything soda/Lucky has done.

Lynching Venmar today is optimal.

[Konowa]

PLUS....going back over stuff Axxle's vote in 177 is awful.

[Konowa]

Out on a limb here, Axxle is third scum.

[Konowa]

Why am I scum? I do not think you have explained that yet.

[Konowa]

And boom goes the dynamite. Say what Venmar?

I want to wait for Lucky before i consider changing my vote. I strongly believe Konowa is scum, so I want to hear from Lucky and see what he has to say. I am leaning scum on him as well.

But in post 261........

Lynch him please.

[Konowa]

No, you do a page by page analysis to day five then fast forward without explaining anything.

Eat rope.

[Konowa]

Back from V/LA will catch up and post within the next few hours.

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 6

Bub Bidderskins

- 1 - Elmo TeH AzN - (L-5)

Luckyjt

- 2 - Axxle, yabbaguy - (L-4)

McStab

- 1 - Luckyjt - (L-5)

Venmar

- 4 - Konowa, McStab, Arugula, Scumhunter - (L-2)

yabbaguy

- 1 - Bub Bidderskins - (L-5)

Players not voting: TheWorst, Venmar

Deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2012-07-30 00:00:00)

[Konowa]

People need to consolidate their votes. Discuss Venmar/Lucky/yabba and then vote.

[Konowa]

Bam.

unvote;
Vote: yabbaguy

This is now happening today.

[Konowa]

If third scum is Lucky, I am going to throw everything I know/think about wagon/vote count analysis out the window.
ffs

[Konowa]

@TheWorst: Thanks. I have learned that if I come out swinging it generally knocks people off their game and I get much more out of it.

[Konowa]

Scum QT?
I deleted PM from Phil linking to dead thread.

[Konowa]

This shows that yabba is smarter than what he was playing at D1 with the bad wagon fallacy.