[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[Rainbowdash]

Also, while IceGuy and everyone else is here, Open 391 finished recently, which was the first run of The New Recruit. I think I agree with Rainbow's assessment of the setup (although not as strongly):

Things I want to know

1) How is this setup balanced? Its at best mildly town sided.
2) Why would scum ever recruit? It turns a somewhat difficult win into a very difficult win.
3) Why did Hikari die at all with the hypo result?
4) Why did OOTN NOT die night one?

I really dont think this setup is balanced though, its so town sided its not even funny. The first setup basically is a win for town if they lynch scum in the first day, probably even second day with JK alive. Second setup is just brutal beyond reason for scum to deal with, recruiting was scum mistake number one.

Recruiting is probably is bad move for scum (at least more challenging than the original setup), and if this is so, it removes the main draw from the setup (two relatively equal choices at the beginning of the game) and turns it into a logic puzzle once town figure out the setup they're in.

Well its one of a 10:2 where town has a JK or 9:3 with JK/JK/Cop.

The first one is probably close to balanced given the mountainous phenominon, but has potential to swing hard if scum goes early. The second one I really dont see scum winning many if any of, they rightfully should be picked apart in most plays as this one showed. The D2 scum lynch was benificial, but even with a N1 JK death and the other one claimed... scum got hit by an almost instant forced loss.

The "recruit" punishment is a bit much for scum to overcome, so this (should) be a 10:2 setup with a JK (sounds fun actually). To make it so the recruit means something, town cant be getting as much as they are. Maybe something bizzare like cop/miller/JK against three goons? It needs tweaking to the point where scum should even consider the third member, which is supposed to be the WIFOM aspect of this setup. Its safe to assume that scum would not just shoot themselves in the foot to start the game usually.

Problem with changing second JK to miller would be that in this scenario miller actually should insta-claim and they basically become confirmed town. Cop/Deputy/JK? Dunno.

[Rainbowdash]

I have this problem with vengeful though since I think (like vig) its an anti-town role at its core due to the main fact that most players who are going to actually use a vengeful shot are not really the best players to start on average.

Tie in the additional fact that you are going to have a disporportionally high number of self-hammers in that game for the lynch bait emotional players hoping to be vengeful and I think that setup is going to be heavily scum sided. I could see an 12:2 with one (known) vengeful townie or something working... but not with multiple hidden vengefuls

[Rainbowdash]

I think it happens more than random (too much already) which is going to drag down town win chance more. I dont see this game working without treating it as mountainous for balance reasons at best.

[Rainbowdash]

I think 2:10 with and 8 VT 2 venge might be feasable... I just still read that as scum sided. Problem with a venge in an open setup is if they claim, they become more or less confirmed town.

Maybe... 2:10

2 goon
1-3 venge town
7-9 vanilla town

Or something like that could work. It eliminates the problem of a set # of venge essentially making them confirmed town so no point in lynching them, allows scum to claim venge if they want somewhat safely, and keeps the game just less breakable. I forsee some "you claimed venge, most of us think you are town but we should lynch you" which I dont like, but if you wanted an all vengeful game this may be the best path to take.

[Rainbowdash]

"Hidden" I think is just one of the modifier that makes me flinch really badly and im not sure really should exist since its hard to create optimal play ever off of them. That and as I said already, I think vengeful is an anti-town mechanic due to the type of player who normally is able to use it.

Maybe a 2:10 nightless with a single hidden venge would work, but it seems like putting a tacky spin on a setup (NVM) that already needs a whole lot of work.