A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[MagnaofIllusion]

So why does Minimum not have more votes at this stage?

But since the ideal choose target should be both someone everyone wants dead and town, both a good policy lynch and also likely to make a good vig choice, the whole thing is something of a paradox.

Or alternately, just choose MagnaofIllusion.

It's because I'm terrified that if you're chosen today, you'll vig scum and weaken my team. Because I'm incapable of moving my own vote off you right now, so all I can do is discourage other people (such as yourself) from placing one.

Or, you know, because your self-vote is odd and I want to know your motivations behind placing it.

So I clearly am a ‘good’ choice per Minimum. That much is clear by his initial Choice of me and his further posting.

Yet when I actually agree with him that I’m a good choice and Chose myself suddenly he 180s and says “I need to discourage that”. Makes no sense. Furthermore the “I can’t move my Choice” explanation paired with the cheeky ‘scum would never answer that way’ response means they are a good vote for rope today. Because if they were really prevented from moving their Choice they NEVER would have dropped it in their first post.

@Minimum

-

Looks at you … looks at my title …. looks back at you

. Not sure what is rocket science in understanding why I Chose myself.

Now – I’d like you to detail what possible scum motivatioin I have in wanting to make sure I die Night 1. Go!

Preview Edit - Good vote Tammy. You can be Town.

[Eddard Stark]

Ser Lothor Brune earned his nickname Lothor Apple-Eater during the Battle of the Blackwater, for the way he cut through the House Fossoway men-at-arms to capture Ser Jon Fossoway.

Day 1, Votecount 5

MagnaofIllusion (2) - Benmage, Shadow1psc
Mastermind of Sin (1) - sword_of_omens

Starbuck (4) - Dolorous Edd, Plum's Yo Mamma, Feysal, redFF

SnowStorm (3) - Plessiezarus, Regfan, Minimum

Minimum (4) - MagnaofIllusion, Salamence20, Hasdgfas, Lyanna Stark

Petyr Baelish (1) - Mastermind of Sin
Benmage (1) - SnowStorm
Salamence20 (2) - pappums rat, Staeg
Feysal (2) - Starbuck, Pandora
redFF (1) - Tyene Sand

Not Voting (7):

Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, Hyperion, Bvoigt, BBmolla, Jal, StefanB

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• redFF is V/la until Friday.

CHOOSE HUGS

MagnaofIllusion (3) - Minimum, sword_of_omens, MagnaofIllusion
Benmage (1) - Benmage
Tyene Sand (1) - Feysal
Dolorous Edd (2) - Hasdgfas, Plum's Yo Mamma

Feysal (5) - Dolorous Edd Salamence20, BBmolla, Tyene Sand, StefanB

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc
Petyr Baelish (1) - Mastermind of Sin
Minimum (2) - Pandora, Regfan
Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg

Not Choosing (10):

Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, Hyperion, redFF, pappums rat, Bvoigt, Plessiezarus, SnowStorm, Jal

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'.

Point out any mistakes that you see.

[Regfan]

Fairly sure Staeg is town as well this game.

So why does Minimum not have more votes at this stage?

They're a better choose vote than a vote vote. And while I may understand your reasoning of "I predict I'll die early anyway so I'll take the shot" it's not right; it's much better to be aiming at securing a suspect on that giving us what is essentially two lynches and shots at getting scum with a backup night shot if we're wrong.

[Lyanna Stark]

So why does Minimum not have more votes at this stage?

They're a better choose vote than a vote vote. And while I may understand your reasoning of "I predict I'll die early anyway so I'll take the shot" it's not right; it's much better to be aiming at securing a suspect on that giving us what is essentially two lynches and shots at getting scum with a backup night shot if we're wrong.

Why would they be a better choose vote than lynch vote? I'm still trying to wrap my head around why it's better to choose a scum read, but if I do understand it properly, wouldn't we be better off choosing someone we're less confident in being scum and lynching someone we're more confident in being scum?

[StefanB]

Regfan: Why is it a better chosevote than a votevote, considering that a votevote is near leadingwaggon?
Previewedit: I leave this here, even if the (heathen) Starkgirl is asking the same question...

Since RedFF is VLA (vote here not a good idea in the first few days), I will sheep MoIsreaseaning.

Vote: Minimum

[Regfan]

Why would they be a better choose vote than lynch vote? I'm still trying to wrap my head around why it's better to choose a scum read, but if I do understand it properly, wouldn't we be better off choosing someone we're less confident in being scum and lynching someone we're more confident in being scum?

Simply put I'm not super confident that they're scum and in the case that they're not I'm very happy for those two to be controlling the vig power in comparison to a lot of other players in the room.

[Lyanna Stark]

Why would they be a better choose vote than lynch vote? I'm still trying to wrap my head around why it's better to choose a scum read, but if I do understand it properly, wouldn't we be better off choosing someone we're less confident in being scum and lynching someone we're more confident in being scum?

Simply put I'm not super confident that they're scum and in the case that they're not I'm very happy for those two to be controlling the vig power in comparison to a lot of other players in the room.

I guess I can see this. Probably not a decision that would have to be made today though.

Also, I just had a flash of what their qt would look like as they decided the vig shot, if town, and was sent into gigglefits.

[StefanB]

Okay, somethink that I should know of Mina and CES, that they would be a bad vig?
I thought that Mina was an at last okay player. CES I don't know anythink about.

[StefanB]

Upps sorry, okay you post the opposite, that you like Mina and CES to take the vigshot, okay confusion off.

[StefanB]

Small edit, just to get it out. Salamence20 was brosing the forrum, got off but didn't say hello not nice. (Nothing to say Salamence?

[Shadow1psc]

This thread -

[Staeg]

This thread -

The time you took finding this picture could've been used for catching up.

Also, to clarify things about starbuck: the VT claim is a not a towntell, for fuck's sake. It wasn't even accompanied by a flavorname. Some may say "But she selfvoted! And claimed VT! Scum wouldn't suicide like that!" and they would be right. They wouldn't. The problem is, the only way to call their bluff is to choose/lynch them, which, guess what, is not happening. Her confusion on the Choose thing... I guess that I could remotely see why it's considered as a towntell, but uhh, the "Why are you choosing this early???" means that she at the very least took the time to think about what the choose is/why are people doing it, but the following posts re: choosing do not reflect this.

[Shadow1psc]

The time you took finding this picture could've been used for catching up.

Who said I wasn't? Who says I don't have a handy cataloged reaction image folder (who doesn't?!)

Pro-tip: I wasn't catching up.

[Staeg]

The time you took finding this picture could've been used for catching up.

Who said I wasn't? Who says I don't have a handy cataloged reaction image folder (who doesn't?!)

Pro-tip: I wasn't catching up.

So, then, commentary?

[MagnaofIllusion]

The whole “Is this or isn’t this Multiball” and resulting suspicion on multiple players on each side is really pretty bad. Odds are favorable that we are indeed in Multiball but making assumptions of scumminess based on those facts today (voting Feysal for a ‘slip’ for example) is at best bad play.

Cow is Town. Yay!

If for some reason people don’t see the wisdom of sending me I will happily send MOS as a policy Choice.

--

@Plessie

– Um is BBMolla playing this game? If so can you tell me who he is masquerading as?

--

Im a little too drunk to post.... I blame faraday.. i wish mina wasnt scum.

And yet you aren’t voting for her …

--

Didn't like MoI's self-choose either but that was a super minor thing.

Am I right in assuming your vote on Snow is more or less 100% based on Westros meta or some such thing?

They're a better choose vote than a vote vote. And while I may understand your reasoning of "I predict I'll die early anyway so I'll take the shot" it's not right; it's much better to be aiming at securing a suspect on that giving us what is essentially two lynches and shots at getting scum with a backup night shot if we're wrong.

Meh. Suffice it to say I think having an early death being meaningful is a better move than it not. But as I asked Minimum - what possible scum motivation do you see in self-Chosing. Because you said it gave me a slight scum read and the above is just ‘mechanics’ disagreement.

--

In either case, I see killing off a suspicious person doing more good than harm. Choosing someone out of policy is pointless. Why no policy lynch the first day and have the suspicious person sent to kill Snow instead?

I disagree in that if we have to choose between giving a Policy lynch the power to kill anyone of their choice or a Scummy play said ability I’d 10 out of 10 times rather have the Policy lynch taking the shot. Ostensibly scummy players are more likely to be scum and scum has a 0% (barring cross-kills if this is Multiball) of killing a partner since they aren’t living to reap any Town cred from the shot (aka ***spreads arms wide***).

It fits with a scum who already knows there is another faction out there and carelessly said it as part of a discussion.

It also fits with Town drawing a pretty logical conclusion. Furthermore – Feysal is not careless regardless of alignment. Discuss how this impacts your read.

--

Sheeping Cow some.

If you were sheeping Cow why didn’t you vote Minimum? I don’t see the point in sheeping only his Choice and not his normal vote.

--

Benmage, Moi: Why are you selfcosing this is not a sane townmove (it is like selfvoting)?

I have reasons (that are pretty obv) why it is a good move to put the shot in my hands.

[Shadow1psc]

Pro-tip: I wasn't catching up.

Haven't had time to sit down and read this game. There's walls abound and it's not my lunch time yet. I will be more than happy to make snarky in-the-moment commentary though.

[SnowStorm]

So do you want to treat it like a policy lynch or a regular one?

VOTE: Benmage.

Doesn't matter.

It matters to me and I'd say it matters to everyone else since everyone is talking about it. Strangely enough, nobody picked on your noncommittal stance on the subject. You basically said you're 'ok' with both using it as a regular lynch to catch scum AND using it to lynch a policy lynch target; those two things don't match. So, again, which is it?

Well, I agree that we should use it as a regular lynch and send someone suspicious to kill Jon Snow.

[Staeg]

Snowstorm, any other commentary?

[Shadow1psc]

So do you want to treat it like a policy lynch or a regular one?

VOTE: Benmage.

Doesn't matter.

It matters to me and I'd say it matters to everyone else since everyone is talking about it. Strangely enough, nobody picked on your noncommittal stance on the subject. You basically said you're 'ok' with both using it as a regular lynch to catch scum AND using it to lynch a policy lynch target; those two things don't match. So, again, which is it?

Well, I agree that we should use it as a regular lynch and send someone suspicious to kill Jon Snow.

I actually will comment on this - I was following the thread last night until about the point where people jumped on Feysal's junk, but I was of the opinion that our choice was basically a second lynch. Now anyone saying "Well, let's use it on someone suspicious", if they're suspicious (you think they're scum) and you've succeeded with catching scum even (unlikely IMO), scum is going to shoot whoever the hell they want, not who we (the collective town majority opinion) wants to shoot.

[Plessiezarus]

My biggest scum read is on Minimum though. Think both Mina and CES were posting last night, with Mina being the one posting words and CES being the one just jumping votes.

Presumably though "I think Mina was posting words" isn't why you have a scum read on Minimum?

@Plessie

– Um is BBMolla playing this game? If so can you tell me who he is masquerading as?

Er. I am confused. Since he's on the player list and he's posted on the thread, I'm guessing that he is playing, yes?

So, again, which is it?

Why haven't you answered my question yet?

~ Pless

[SnowStorm]

Snowstorm, any other commentary?

I'm catching up.

It matters to me and I'd say it matters to everyone else since everyone is talking about it. Strangely enough, nobody picked on your noncommittal stance on the subject. You basically said you're 'ok' with both using it as a regular lynch to catch scum AND using it to lynch a policy lynch target; those two things don't match. So, again, which is it?

Well, I agree that we should use it as a regular lynch and send someone suspicious to kill Jon Snow.

I actually will comment on this - I was following the thread last night until about the point where people jumped on Feysal's junk, but I was of the opinion that our choice was basically a second lynch. Now anyone saying "Well, let's use it on someone suspicious", if they're suspicious (you think they're scum) and you've succeeded with catching scum even (unlikely IMO), scum is going to shoot whoever the hell they want, not who we (the collective town majority opinion) wants to shoot.

I'm not sure I'm following you. You're saying that you agree that we should use it as a second lynch, but you also want to have control over who the chosen person will vig?

[Staeg]

I actually will comment on this - I was following the thread last night until about the point where people jumped on Feysal's junk, but I was of the opinion that our choice was basically a second lynch. Now anyone saying "Well, let's use it on someone suspicious", if they're suspicious (you think they're scum) and you've succeeded with catching scum even (unlikely IMO), scum is going to shoot whoever the hell they want, not who we (the collective town majority opinion) wants to shoot.

Okay, so, you don't have ANY opinion of anything that happened until the Feysal stuff. However, what you said here is obvious and pretty much useless, so...?

I am still not really sure about why anyone is saying that the person we choose should be the one choosing whom he vigs.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm not sure I'm following you. You're saying that you agree that we should use it as a second lynch, but you also want to have control over who the chosen person will vig?

No, I'm saying if we're using it as a second lynch (smart), we can't expect to control who the extra kill is. We could certainly wish for it, and it's likely it'll be a mislynch (just based on past experience), but it's likely then that a directed kill will also be a failed attempt to hit scum, so I say we use it as a regular lynch and just don't try to direct it.

[Lyanna Stark]

My biggest scum read is on Minimum though. Think both Mina and CES were posting last night, with Mina being the one posting words and CES being the one just jumping votes.

Presumably though "I think Mina was posting words" isn't why you have a scum read on Minimum?

Nope! That would be silly. I know that you don't presume that though and wouldn't have to ask, so I'm not quite sure the point of that particular question.

Someone posted that they thought it was just one or the other posting last night; it was a statement correcting that though I can't find who originally posted that it was just one so I can't address them specifically.

[SnowStorm]

The few scum reads are incredibly weak right now. Something feels off about Minimum but I can't pin-point what exactly, if I had to specify it's probably a lack of town reads stated by them or reads at all though willing to give them time

to convince me I'm just mad at Mina for picking CES over me to hydra with.

.

Also really don't like SnowStorms entrance, think for his first game on-site and in a theme he knows things about as town he'd be more light-hearted or at least have a welcomish/hello sort of post or joke but instead his vote on Benmage in Post 63 feels forced.

Didn't like Salamences comment in Post 56 either but might be worth checking his meta out quickly if I get time later. Didn't like MoI's self-choose either but that was a super minor thing.

I said 'hi' in the sign-up thread, didn't want to make a useless 'hi' post here too. I also didn't feel like roleplaying when people were already getting serious. I'm not sure how that works here, but in Westeros I always get called scummy when I'm roleplaying... (Also, the lack of alts is kind of a turn off for roleplaying.)