A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Eddard Stark]

Blacktyde is one of the islands that form the Iron Islands. The major noble house of the island is House Blacktyde.

Day 1, Votecount 28

MagnaofIllusion (2) - Shadow1psc, Dolorous Edd

SnowStorm (7) - Plessiezarus, Regfan, Tyene Sand, Feysal, Jal, Shinori, MagnaofIllusion

Minimum (4) - Salamence20, Hasdgfas, Lyanna Stark, greenknight
Salamence20 (4) - Amrun, Minimum, bvoigt, Mastermind of Sin
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
Shinori (3) - Pandora, BBmolla, Staeg
Shadow1psc (1) - StefanB
bvoigt (1) - Plum's Yo Mamma
Jal (2) - SnowStorm, DCLXVI

Not Voting (3):

Mockingjaye, kortul, Benmage

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• MJ may be V/la for a hurricane

CHOOSE PYKE

Tyene Sand (1) - Feysal
Dolorous Edd (2) - hasdgfas, Jal

Feysal (6) - Salamence20, Bvoigt, greenknight, Shinori, Mastermind of Sin, DCLXVI

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc
Minimum (2) - Regfan, StefanB
Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg
Shadow1psc (4) - BBmolla, MagnaofIllusion, Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye
greenknight (5) - Plum's Yo Mamma, Minimum, Tyene Sand, Pandora, Plessiezarus
Mockingjaye (1) - Dolorous Edd

Not Choosing (4):

kortul, Amrun, SnowStorm, Benmage

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'. Once a choose has 15 votes it will be locked in but not end day.

Any mistakes, please point them out.

[Shadow1psc]

God, I can finally link this; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22064

Read Salamence. Enjoy our free lynch. UNVOTE: VOTE: Salamence

[greenknight]

God, I can finally link this; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22064

Read Salamence. Enjoy our free lynch. UNVOTE: VOTE: Salamence

Seriously Shadow? Have you been just trolling around waiting for that game to finish so you could link it and call for a policy lynch? Do you have any actual scum reads?

[Shadow1psc]

God, I can finally link this; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22064

Read Salamence. Enjoy our free lynch. UNVOTE: VOTE: Salamence

Seriously Shadow? Have you been just trolling around waiting for that game to finish so you could link it and call for a policy lynch? Do you have any actual scum reads?

If this were a policy lynch why would I need evidence from an in progress game (hint: in

that

game we already went down the road of exploring Sala's town meta). In other news, are you going to stop being scummy?

[greenknight]

Well what's your case then Shadow? That he is scum because _____? I'm not reading much difference between Sala's playstyle in this game and the other one you linked

[greenknight]

In the meantime

vote: Bvoigt

MoI and Snow you should join this wagon.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Successfully started a Choose wagon on greenknight, have not yet successfully started a lynch wagon on Bvoigt. MoI left the Minimum wagon - something I'd hardly hoped would happen - but not for Bvoigt.

Greenknight now joining Bvoigt wagon and encouraging MoI and SS to do so.

[Shadow1psc]

Spoiler: Sala's Catchup

But seriously - we have a large theme with 28 players, prequels most of which had two scum teams, and even in the few snippets of flavor we've seen there have been references to multiple threats. Of course I expect this to be multiball

Sorry, I'm not that into the flavor.

But even if some of the games of the same series, blah blah blah, you can't really expect anyone to use the word multiball without knowing much. No one knows if the game is truly multiball or not, but mentioning it could be scum with knowledge of other intruders of the castle.

I chose to vote Sally over the rest because it has already been stated that it said nowhere that there are defiantely more than one scumteam and this looked like a sleazy hop onto an easy bandwagon. BBMolla's jump on Feysal wasnt any better.

Every day, it seems like I'm being told that bandwagoning is scummy, and that bandwagoning is town.

We'll see.

Choosing should be policy lynch central since I can easily imagine choosing scum and giving that scumbag a strongman vig being worse for the town than taking out 2 townies that would otherwise get mislynched or screw up in some other way.

Ahh you are correct...

FYI the assassin thing is only a D1 event like thing. Nailing scum is still best as it equates to a 1-1 trade off... i.e. always good for town.

But I'm sure a viable PL target will showthemselves eventually to be chosen.

So do you want to treat it like a policy lynch or a regular one?

VOTE: Benmage.

Doesn't matter.

But there is a difference between the two, right???

Im a little too drunk to post.... I blame faraday.. i wish mina wasnt scum.

Then vote him

I disagree that this should be used as a second scum lynch and if that makes me scum in everyone's eyes so be it.

Do you think MoI is possible scum for self-choosing?

I think it should be the hands of a VT. A townie who has nothing to lose, but would still follow the wishes of the majority.

If it ends up in scum hands, we won't know where it lands.

I didn't want to claim this early, but I'm choosing myself because I know that I am town and that I have nothing to lose.

Take this from a guy that played day-vig, even if you are a VT and you sacrifice yourself for the cause, chances of you hitting scum are less than that compared to you hitting town.

Salamance scum - that jump on the feysal wagon was horrendous: he chooses him instead of voting him, he smacks on RVS-esque commentary and then asks something that was already asked (with multiple question marks, mind you).
Starbuck scum - mostly what was already said. The initial I-thought-about-it-but-really-didn't about the Chooses, followed by more of that, followed by not reading the argument closely at all.

So I'm taking you don't buy the starbuck VT claim?

So why are you voting me? Because of what I said or because of me jumping on the bandwagon?

This is why.
BBmolla admitted that his vote is sheeping and only sheeping. He didn't try to pull any fancy "BUT WHAT IF I MISSED SOMETHING????????/?" Granted, he's not town for it, but I'm not assigning him any scumpoints, either.
Dolorous Edd is just... wrong. He was the first to point it, when there were no actual votes on Feysal.

So explain to me why sheeping is less scummy than my post.

This thread -

This is fluff and you should feel bad.

If for some reason people don’t see the wisdom of sending me I will happily send MOS as a policy Choice.

So MoI, why do you want to die? I don't see the scum motivation, no, but I don't see MoI's motivation to do so, what makes you think (if you are town) that you will hit scum?

Overall, why are you the best choice vs anyone else?

Unvote, vote: Salamence20

Hi CES, I'm happy to see you.

Where did your vote come from, I don't remember you mentioning me in any of your posts.

VOTE: Snowstorm

LOL

Nice scumslip

LOL

GREATEST. REACTION. TEST. EVER.

What were you trying to accomplish?

You guys are terrible at continuing reaction tests.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Salamence

Better vote.

Again, what were you trying to accomplish, and why am I the better vote.

And yes I am voting him because Staeg asked why I'm not voting him, I ISO'd him, noticed he's not town, realized he's scum

So your sheeping? Cool.

Why is Sala obv-scum? Explain it to me.

Sala would like to know this as well?

Just target him with whatever your ability is please, I want to get that guilty and laugh in your face

Of course you would want me to be guity, wouldn't you, BB? sorry to inform you, but I am not.

Sorry, you should have stipulated that in the first place. I honestly can't say for certain without an actual flip to work with. Gut says probably someone active-lurking (like Shadow1spc) or someone who should NOT make it to endgame like Sala or MOS since it is the first 24 hours of the thread.

But MoI...

I haven't done anything yet.

MoI do you think I'm scum

You still haven't put a reason on why I am scum, quit dodging the question.

If there is anything else important that I miss, please do tell.

Meanwhile, I'll be waiting for BB's reasoning of Sal obvscum.

Salamence we will

for sure

know about given a few more days (real days, not game days).

I don't like this statement, and I am sure I know why I don't like this statement.

I know what you are trying to do, you are waiting for some kind of post that is either scummy, VI, or both.

So, to sum it up, the following players should be dead come massclaim day (preferably within the next 4 days):
Salamence
Dolorous Edd
Hyperion
Shadow

I would still like starbuck to die (who STILL hasn't nameclaimed), but I'm more or less alone there.

Why should starbuck claim at all? He already claimed VT, what more is there for you to find out?

I would like to know why you want DE, Hyperion, and Shadow dead, because I am sure I know you want me dead because of my shitty LyLo play, which is more biased than actual scummyness.

-------------------------------------------------------

So anyways, lets get on to the reads.

Town:
MoI
Pandora
Tyene
Edd
Cow
Lyanna
Molla
Starbuck
Pless
Stefan
Salamence20
Regfan

Null:
Benmage
Staeg
Plum
Jal
Feysal
Pappums
SoO
MoS
Mocking
BV
RedFF
Petyr

Scum:
Minimum
Shadow
Snowstorm
Hyperion

Sala is trying too hard. Sala is most certainly the super VI fly-off-the-cuff type of player who doesn't really seem to care what other people think and as town isn't worried too much about correcting himself or looking proper, at all. #777 screams bad, and if you're not seeing the discrepancy between play styles, I can't do much for you GK.

-p-edit-
Plum, what was the point of that post?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Mostly to note that Greenknight's behavior is confusing me and making me wonder what's up with him and if that says anything about the wagons (answer: quite possibly, but not something I can tell with current info).

[Eddard Stark]

Prodding Staeg

[Shadow1psc]

Mostly to note that Greenknight's behavior is confusing me and making me wonder what's up with him and if that says anything about the wagons (answer: quite possibly, but not something I can tell with current info).

So why not say that instead of rewording what happened like, one post ago?

[Jal]

Dealing with some work drama the past two days. Expect a reply within 5-6 hours from now.

[hasdgfas]

I've contributed less because there's too much talking for me to contribute to.

Oh, but the second I go on a long winded rant about why I don't contribute as much and I'm scum. Good catch

What are you talking about?

@Hascow, why are you ignoring my Post 646?

Because there's nothing to address?

I find it curious that you have null reads on three of the weakest players in the game.


How sad that this thread would ignore redFF's scumminess. Minimum is a bad lynch and, moreover, we wouldn't want to ruin CES's record of not getting lynched, now would we?

UNCHOOSE: Feysal
CHOOSE: Minimum

This is a really bad post in pretty much every respect.

While we're at it, why did you find this post of Tierce's bad? What's your current read on Tierce?

What's "this post of Tierce's"? And Tierce isn't in this game, unless I'm missing something.

There is this. Post 264 is the post Minimum asked you to explain. I'm Tierce. What are your issues with Post 247?

(Assuming that you don't mean the 'bad lynch'/'choose them' bit, which I've already explained in Post 680.)

Oh, right. That. Completely forgot about that. It's bad because:
A) You're admonishing the thread for not looking at someone you find scummy as opposed to doing something about it.
B) "minimum is a bad lynch" you explained later, but the whole "we don't want to ruin CES's record of not getting lynched" is REALLY bad. What possible town reasoning is there for that?
C) The first sentence is another admonishment because you don't like someone's reads.

The admonishment is simply sniping at people, whether the town or individual players, and that's an easy way to just discredit someone/someones without any sort of weight.

Read as a whole on the slot is vaguely town, but I haven't paid that much attention to it. Apart from the one terrible post, nothing stood out as obviously bad.

Looking at the vote/Choose counts, the main places to look now are SnowStorm, Salamence, Feysal, greenknight, correct?

[greenknight]

@Plum What is confusing about my behaviour? I think minimum is still suspicious but isn't a viable lynch today, and have snow as a townread and bvoigt as scum... MoI and Snow have stated scum reads on bvoigt too.

@Shadow Actually I think I see your point now. Sala did wall a couple of times in the other game, but here it does look like he felt pressured into doing lists to look more townish after your #411 implied you were going to go after him, and your own play makes more sense now since you felt you had a solid meta read to drop... I need to think about this one some more since it interacts with my read on bvoigt.

[Benmage]

But how will we know that we are choosing scum? We don't. So why not have some control over this rather than none at all?

How will we know the person the chosen townie shoots is scum? God damn.

Wait wait wait.... he doesn't post since post 83 other than a will post comment... and thats it... lol, this slot can die.

In other news.. still busy.

[DCLXVI]

Wait wait wait.... he doesn't post since post 83 other than a will post comment... and thats it... lol, this slot can die.

I really can't do much about the previous inactivity from my slot (other than be active now), but if you are so adamant about me dying why are you not voting for me? or anyone for that matter? (both your votes are on the "not voting" list.)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wait wait wait.... he doesn't post since post 83 other than a will post comment... and thats it... lol, this slot can die.

I really can't do much about the previous inactivity from my slot (other than be active now), but if you are so adamant about me dying why are you not voting for me? or anyone for that matter? (both your votes are on the "not voting" list.)

*snipe snipe*

[DCLXVI]

?

[BBmolla]

HEAR ME NOW
OH THOU BLEAK AND UNBEARABLE WORLD
THOU ART BASED AND DEBAUCHED AS CAN BE

brb rereading

[Minimum]

Feel very comfortable lynching Salamence20 now.

Back to your response, I have a few questions. You suggested MoI might have made a self-nom because he was feeling emo or that he might be “feeling persecuted and having a deflated opinion of his Mafia abilities right now” Post 553. Why do you think he might have been feeling that way by the time he posted? I have always gotten the impression that MoI doesn’t really care what other people think or don’t think about him and instead just plays the game to win. I can also think of several reasons MoI cast a self-nom when he did, too, and only one of those reasons is scummy. Do you really think that MoI is emo or has a deflated opinion of himself? Do you really think he is the type of player who would try to get rid of you regardless of your respective alignments?

Better question: do you think this is relevant to our alignment?

Also, can you explain why you feel that Starbuck was a “beleaguered townie under pressure who thought she was sacrificing herself for the good of the town” Post 553? I mean, people were asking her questions and she had some votes on her, but I don’t really see how she was that beleaguered and there was no way was she going to be lynched that early on in the game, so no, to answer your question I definitely don’t get the sense that she was sacrificing herself at all.

It wasn't a self-sacrifice in the vein of "oh, I'm getting lynched" but a more pro-active one based on her ideas of what to do with our Choice; if you don't think she was sacrificing herself, then do you think the selfchoose/VTclaim/assorted stuff was just one big scum ploy? It reads very genuine to me.

I really don't like the way it feels like you try to cut off any criticism regarding your outburst in Post 641 and Post 643, which makes your outbursts seem much less genuine and a lot more manipulative to me.

Isn't 70 posts later a little late to cut off any criticism?

[Dolorous Edd]

Kind of baffled by this reaction, to be honest . We're not trying to aggravate you for the sake of it at all -- we're asking you questions about your votes and your reads because, apparently unlike several other people, we're not convinced that you're town yet and want to get a better handle on what you're saying.

We're not trying to focus unduly on you or single you out in any way -- you're not even one of top scum reads (in fact, if forced to choose at gunpoint we'd probably guess you were town). But you have more posts than most people playing, so (inevitably, I think) we probably find more questions to ask you than we do, say, redFF. If we're really upsetting you for some reason, then we can only apologise: this isn't a deliberate strategy on our part, and it's not how we want to play the game. (Though, really, we're not quite sure why

being asked to explain your opinions of other players

in a game of mafia should prompt this sort of anguished response .)

For the record, I first asked you to explain your Hyperion vote the same day you cast it (I'm pretty sure I asked as soon as I'd read it, in fact, though Zar may have posted a couple of times before that). You might have taken days to answer, but that's hardly a result of

us

failing to keep up.

But more importantly, you seem to have (unintentionally?) completely missed the point of Post 807. I wasn't saying "why did you move your vote off Hyperion?", which is the question you seem to be answering. I was saying "if Jal's vote for SnowStorm looks so bad, why did you not comment on it at the time?".

... honestly, if it's only going to irritate you to answer this, feel free to not bother. Seems pretty obvious you're not getting Chosen or lynched today, and we have better suspects to push and question before deadline. Happy enough to listen to Regfan and leave you alone for now (at least for the Day).

~ Pless

I'm sorry I was in a bad mood and having a bad morning :/ I really apologize for the burst.

Anyways, of course I'll answer your question If I go off on anyone/anything (again), just know that it was was prob 99% because of something that happened IRL or something, so nothing personal or game-related at all.

"if Jal's vote for SnowStorm looks so bad, why did you not comment on it at the time?"

- Actually, tbh, I didn't really notice it. I sometimes read what is going on, but not really

analyze

it. Then every once in a while, I go back to the player list and look over everyone. If I don't have a read on you, or even a very vague read that I can barely remember anything about, then I ISO you. So Jal was in that vague pile (leaning town actually, but this was only because of what people said). But when I looked at the list, he seemed to be flying under the radar (at least, mine), and that is usually a bad signn for me. I also saw that Snowsotrm had just interacted with him, so I went and ISOed him, and I hated

HATED

his Snow vote. It just seemed

so

poorly justified and opportunistic.

Also, what I really caught about Jal that also gave me scum vibes is what I like to call

post-justification

. It's when someone votes for someone else, and

then

they start trying to justify that vote, instead of already having a justification when voting.

[Staeg]

So um. I haven't begun reading page 28 yet and got prodded. Wheee.

(yes, I'll get to it sooner rather than later)

[Plessiezarus]

Anyways, of course I'll answer your question If I go off on anyone/anything (again), just know that it was was prob 99% because of something that happened IRL or something, so nothing personal or game-related at all.

Hey! I want an answer to my question too!

~ Zar.

[Pandora]

I really don't see how that game is any different from Salamance every other time. Including here. Two more Gonna Get To It posts say this wagon is DEAD ENDing so

##Vote: Snowstorm

Votewise it seems like people are still fooling around. As far as I've been able to gauge it's getting close to consolidation time for you weird people. Stop making one-off votes unless you really think you can aowkr at driving a wagon.

- Shadofuweh

[BBmolla]

Oh and I'm Lefou in my college's production of Beauty and the Beast. That's where I've been the past couple of days, auditions etc.

I wouldn't call Hyperion's Post 298 a case on BB, and I'm surprised he describes it as so. BB, you have a tendency to accumulate a few votes on the early days; how come one vote draws such a visceral reaction?

His ignorance of all other scummy players I think.

I think I can kind of see your point though, I'm no beacon of townieness.

Help me I can't read Salamence, it's like he's baiting me to vote him

"Voting AND choosing? MOS IS SCUM!!!"

Tierce is so obvtown MoS what in god's name are you doing. Just by the way she's getting all flustered over how dumb you're being. I'm probably protecting her tonight.

So, uh, you guys just gonna get a room sometime soon?

Oh god, you are scum aren't you. Noooo

Snow, you might not be an aggressive player but you usually have opinions to offer.

I agree with this so much. Usually Snow is calling me scum and pushing on me by now, he literally has done NOTHING this game.

bvoigt is misreading dumb for scum, as I did. I wonder though... how do you catch dumb scum?

Edd's feelings on Mina/CES match mine.

They're static in that I have seen absolutely nothing to make me change them. I was exaggerating slightly, but I do think the people mentioned(at least the first two) are good bets for scum. What's "this post of Tierce's"?

And Tierce isn't in this game, unless I'm missing something.

...So Cow is scum?

There are basically two possibilities:
1) He's lazy town(Don't think this fits with what I've seen from towncow)
2) He's scum faking some shit

Latter makes more sense.

People have already pointed out that Post 247 is a bad post. There's no good reason to choose somebody you think is a bad lynch (and Tyene's stance on choosing had earlier been that you should choose people you'd want to lynch; see for instance Post 45). Her responses when challenged about this post (see Post 261-, Post 569) seem disingenuous - she spends a lot of time focusing on things other than the incongruity of choosing somebody you've just called "a bad lynch". And the oft-repeated "I'm just sheeping Regfan because the game's so hard to follow" excuse wears a bit thin; it seems to be something she brings up to defend odd looking votes, but ignores when she's promoting her own pro-town credentials (see for instance Post 414).

Pless this would be a good argument if Tierce was a shitty player.

I guess if enough people who've seen you play insist this fits your town meta I'll have to accept that I'm wrong, but I don't like admitting I'm wrong it's still bothering me for now.

Tierce if fully cognizant of her own meta (both Town and scum) therefore giving her a read based on "Town Tierce does this" or "Scum Tierce doesn't do this" is going to be completely useless. Don't listen to meta-reads from other players in that regard.

If you're going to spout this crap then show some examples where she lies. She cites her meta, it's not like she's saying something that can't be checked.

Edd what is this swimming pool of words doing in this game jesus christ. Probably town spilling out thoughts and feelings.

disingenuous

Cool word. I think you're scum though, call it gut.
Oh jk Mina said that.
Well video is for you then.

Eugh, Shinori is probably town unfortunately. I wouldn't ask my bro who has never played before to hydra with me in a game where I'm scum.

Droopy dog Molla isn't much better.

SHIT SOMEONE IS ON TO ME, TO THE LURKMOBILE

bvoigt is town btw

kortul is useless scum

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snowstorm