1371: Futurama Mafia! (Game Over!)

[rapidcanyon]

Vote roflcopter

for having almost the same screen name as the mod.

[rapidcanyon]

@ mod. i will be v/la until tuesday.

so i'm gonna

unvote

because i don't want my vote on someone while i won't be here unless i'm fairly confident in their lynch. I do like the numberQ wagon right now though.

Why do you "like" the Number Q wagon?

UNVOTE: Unvote Roflcopter

[rapidcanyon]

I thought about a mass character claim and realized that if I were scum, that would be what I would fear the most. I would be unsure of claiming a major character early. I also wouldn't want to claim last because mafia would be expected to claim last and those claiming last would look suspicious. So, claiming a little before last would be optimal but then if some townies are still unclaimed, I wouldn't be able to claim a major character. So, if I were scum, I would hate mass-claiming in a game with a limited number of characters.

So, yes, I am down for a mass-claim. We have two ways to go about it. Popcorn style where we force claims or just naturally let it unfold and see who claims when and who claims last.

The one thing that could mess up this plan is if mafia were gives safe fake-claims. I am relatively new to mafiascum so can someone explain how common safe claims are and how likely it is that the mafia could have recieved safe claims?

[rapidcanyon]

@ Venmar, I was busy and other games seemed more compelling.

@ Angry, why would you suspect #Q if acosmist flips scum as opposed to if he flips town?

[rapidcanyon]

DGB led a lynch on a townie making her an easy mislynch target. I don't see the scum motivation behind killing her. Could it be a vig? Or scum hoping to fake-claim vig later on?

[rapidcanyon]

I don't usually post a lot in the initial stages of the game - I feel there is too little to go on hence my inactivity. I was also busy with other games which reached more critical stages and wasn't paying as much attention to this particular game since it has barely started. One thing that stuck out to me was that the person who led a lynch on a townie was chosen for a night kill. Anyways,

Name claim: Bender Bending Rodriguez

I'll re-read before deciding who to popcorn it to.

[rapidcanyon]

First, a list of claims:

Dead Players

1) Acosmist ~ Zapp Brannigan (Vanilla Townie) - Lynched Day One - TOWN
2) DrippingGoofball ~ Turanga Leela (Vanilla Townie), Shot Night One - TOWN

Active Players

1) AngryPidgeon ~ Hermes Conrad
2) Blastoide ~ Philip J. Fry
3) roflcopter ~ scruffy
4) rapidcanyon ~ Bender Bending Rodriguez
5) numberQ ~
6) Eidolon ~
7) Cheery Dog ~
8) Tangion ~
9) Toon Fighter ~
10) Venmar ~
11) vijay2vasandani ~

Now, here is my analysis.

DGB is the first one to suggest a mass character claim while Venmar says no and numberQ says he has reasons to avoid a mass character claim. Acosmist says that safe claims are given as a matter of course.

So, far my initial impression is that AngryPidgeon is town based on 48 where he is attempting to scumhunt. Also, he is quick to jump to conclusions that may or may not be popular.

DGB insists that we mass claim citing her experience with discerning fake-claims as a reason.

Venmar 52 discourages AP's reasoning. Here is my first scum read. Rather than engage AP as to his reasons and try to discern scum, Venmar seems defensive by trying to reject AP's reasoning without discussion. Discussion and interaction with players is how we find scum and Venmar's attempt to stifle discussion strikes me as scummy.

Another post that strikes me as odd is Roflcopter's 75. "

whoever dgb exempts can skip it obvi, she knows what she's doing

." I don't know if this is meant to be sarcastic or serious but if serious, it is a cause for concern. Roflcopter would have no reason to believe that DGB is town before her flip so why give so much power and control of the day phase to one individual going so far as to allow her to choose who claims and who doesn't?

Next odd post, again from Venmar - Post 88, extensive defense of Vijay's use of gambits and discouragement from getting Vijay's claim. It is one thing to say that he gets a town meta on Vijay, quite another to discourage someone else from popcorning Vijay. My first impression is that Vijay is town and Venmar is buddying him.

The next interesting point to note is Acosmist's post 95. At this point, someone we now know to be town has essentially declared open war against someone who we also now know to be town. Looking at the reactions of players right after this point can give us indication of their affiliation.

Roflcopter on post 99 openly defends DGB and extends his support. Scum have plenty of motivation to do this since DGB had established herself as a persuasive player and was taking control of the day thread. The person that she wants lynched will likely be lynched. Buddying her and pushing for the lynch of the townie she suspects makes sense to do as scum.

Venmar's post 103, he votes Acosmist for "reasons exemplified by DBG." Whatever happenned to thinking name claims are a bad idea? He puts Acosmist at L -1 despite his ideals of not name-claiming matching up with Acosmist's ideals more than DGB's. This is the most incriminating evidence against Venmar.

Venmar's post 108 is... hilarious to say the least. He doesn't like how Acosmist was egging AP on to slip some kind of a comment that would make him look bad. Lol. Venmar was the one who chastised AP on building a case on post 52 when AP made that specific case.

On post 109, Venmar FOSses me for posting possibilities about nameclaims and asking how common it is on mafiascum to have safe-claims. Pointless FOS. When a new player to the site encounters this kind of situation, I would expect them to ask questions to figure out the best course of action. He says it "doesn't bring anything to the table." The purpose of my question is to better help me discern scum by knowing whether the scum are likely to have recieved fake-claims.

Venmar's 131 makes me rethink on roflcopter though. I doubt scum would so blatantly agree with each other.

Another town-read I have is Eidolon. Not only is she aggressively attacking other players (her town meta), but she also picks out the one person, I happen to be most suspicous of after re-reading the day thread.

VOTE: Venmar

I think Eidolon's case has merit but unlike roflcopter, I think Venmar is scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Canyon, who are you going to popcorn to?

You.

[rapidcanyon]

Major characters

My understanding is that for any mafia game, if the mod does not supply fake-claims, they would at least leave out a few major characters so that the mafia can fake-claim them. So, there are 2 possibilities: provide a major character or two as a safe-claim or give no safe-claims but leave out a few major characters so that if scum claim last, they can figure out that certain characters aren't taken and claim those characters. On debate.org, (where I played mafia before), one of my favorite strategies as a mod was to leave out tons of major characters so that if scum figure out that those characters aren't in the game, they can safely claim them. I am getting a feeling that mods on mafiascum do a similar thing - allow scum to potentially claim major characters.

Updated list of claims

Dead Players

1) Acosmist ~ Zapp Brannigan (Vanilla Townie) - Lynched Day One - TOWN
2) DrippingGoofball ~ Turanga Leela (Vanilla Townie), Shot Night One - TOWN

Active Players

1) AngryPidgeon ~ Hermes Conrad
2) Blastoide ~ Philip J. Fry
3) roflcopter ~ scruffy
4) rapidcanyon ~ Bender Bending Rodriguez
5) Venmar ~ Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
6) Eidolon ~
7) Cheery Dog ~
8) Tangion ~
9) Toon Fighter ~
10) numberQ ~
11) vijay2vasandani ~

Analysis on Venmar's claim

Out of the 7 people whose character we now know, 5 of us have claimed major characters. Here is a link to Futurama's characters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fu ... characters

Fry, Leela, Bender, and Farnsworth are the first 4 characters on the list. I haven't watcher Futurama, but this implies to me that they are the four most major characters. If I were the mod and decided to provide safe-claims, I would likely put 3 of those characters in the game and provide the other as a safe-claim. Likely, Fry is real since he is the protagonist. I don't know the SOP on mafiascum but I where I played before, the protagonist is almost always a town character. Leela is dead and town. That leaves Bender (me) and Prof. Hubert (Venmar). I know I am town so from my point of view, I find Venmar even more suspicious, not less, for claiming a major character. I am keeping my vote on Venmar. It all matches too perfectly - the scummy behavior - a major character in addition to other major characters - something which would surely be unfair to scum if all 4 major characters were town.

Analysis on Toonfighter

I have trouble finding out the exact meat of the reason we are voting Toonfighter since I see two separate cases. AP's 151 is decent as is Eidolon's 155. Eidolon says that Venmar's claim is townish and toonfighter is suspicious as well. I can see where she is coming from but I find Venmar overwhelmingly more suspicious

especially

because of his claim as I outlined above.

Roflcopter is very interested in a toonfighter wagon too and seems really eager to vote him but Rofl himself was one of my scum-reads. Roflcopter, can you explain why you are voting toonfighter? If you already posted a case, sorry I missed it. Just link me to the post.

Really like Eidolon's 161. My first thought was that Rofl was bussing too considering his certainty that everyone should vote TF without presenting a case and explaining why we should do so. But TF's 162 makes me think TF is town. I don't usually see scum soft-claiming.

A general question to everyone: how common is it on mafiascum for town players to softclaim and later fit it all together? How about scum players?

Thoughts on the last few posts

Don't like Venmar saying that scum would question town points given to them as a "mental scumslip." In fact, I think scum are more likely to accept townpoints given to them for whatever reason. Town however is wary of the reasoning. In a recent game on debate.org, I was about to be mislynched, and another player gave really poor reasoning for why he thinks I was town. I flat out told him I don't like his reasoning. Why? because it was easily refutable and came off to me as scum trying to align himself with me while allowing others to refute the reasoning. (I'll post a link if anyone wants, it is a game in progress though). The point I am trying to make is that scum will accept townreads on them while town are a bit more critical of people calling them town.

NumberQ's response matches up with what I would expect from a town player so Venmar's FOS on him doesn't make sense.

Anyways, keeping my vote on Venmar based on my analysis of major characters.

[rapidcanyon]

Edit, Rolf's 162 makes me think Rolf is town, not TF.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Angry, do you disagree with my interpretation that at least one major character is likely scum? If so, what is your analysis?

[rapidcanyon]

I am at school. Wall of text and claims list later when I get back home or tomorrow. For now, a few burning questios upon reading the thread.

1) Eidolon, what about Venmar's responses struck you as town? Explain in detail.

To be honest, Venmar's response to Eidolon did not strike me as town at all.

So, far Venmar:

a) Contradicted himself twice.

b) Specifically asked me who I was popcorning my vote to after I voted him. It is almost as if he WANTED to out his character. More on this later.

2) I want to lynch Toonfighter. Both Angry and Rofl are saying the other is bussing. Regardless of who is bussing, it seems likely that TF is scum since everyone wants to distance themselves from him.

3) Venmar is my bigger scumread though and I find Eidolon laying off of him despite a poor response strange and worthy of explanation. She had a better case for Venmar than Angry did for TF. The only reason I can think of is that his character supposedly auto-confirms him.

I think TF is just as scummy as Venmar but I found it odd that people are suddenly laying off of Venmar for no reason at all and calling him town out of the blue. I have given up trying to see the game on the same wavelength as Angry but of special note to me is Eidolon whose responses I am most interested in hearing.

I'd also like to see Toonfighters responses to the accusations on him and hopefully that will help us determine who is the most likely scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Pedit: Re 2): What if Rofl and I are both town? What if TF flips town?

It is possible, of course. But the fact that both of you keep saying that the other is bussing makes me think that TF is likelier scum that town. You and ROLF want to put as much distance as possible between yourselves and TF. The impression I get is that people don't want to associate themselves with TF i.e. TF is inactive, useless bus fodder.

[rapidcanyon]

@ AP, not certain about any of them. If TF is scum, I will look into rofl first. Not necessarily lynch but scrutinize closely. But first, I want to hear from Eidolon as to why she is so sure of Venmar's townie-ness. I haven't even decided whether I am going to unvote on Venmar at all.

[rapidcanyon]

RC, it is mainly his claim. I'm by no means positive that he's town, but his response to me seemed sincere enough, (for instance his admittance to stretching the truth a bit, and his explanation for his fos on you day 1) that i'm okay with backing off of pressure for now in light of his claim.

He never really addressed the core of either of our arguments.

[quote="In post 215, Eidolon"
So.. you want to lynch TF, based on other players behaviors, yet don't want to vote him because venmar is your bigger scumread? That's odd.
[/quote]

Something seems off to me. Just when we were about to pressure Venmar, a counterwagon for TF pops out of nowhere and you jump onto it despite your first pressure target not giving sufficient answers to your and my questions.

how did he contradict himself twice?

1) He disagreed with DGB initially but later voted Acosmist for reasons that DGB mentioned.

2) He chastised AP for making a case out of nothing but later used that case himself to vote against Acosmist.

- What about his character claim is so compelling?

- If he admits to stretching the truth, that means he is town? I don't understand...

So, yeah, part of me wants to vote TF but the fact that pressure is dissipating on Venmar for no reason smells funny and makes me want to stick with Venmar.

[rapidcanyon]

Edit for quoting errors.

RC, it is mainly his claim. I'm by no means positive that he's town, but his response to me seemed sincere enough, (for instance his admittance to stretching the truth a bit, and his explanation for his fos on you day 1) that i'm okay with backing off of pressure for now in light of his claim.

He never really addressed the core of either of our arguments.

So.. you want to lynch TF, based on other players behaviors, yet don't want to vote him because venmar is your bigger scumread? That's odd.

Something seems off to me. Just when we were about to pressure Venmar, a counterwagon for TF pops out of nowhere and you jump onto it despite your first pressure target not giving sufficient answers to your and my questions.

how did he contradict himself twice?

1) He disagreed with DGB initially but later voted Acosmist for reasons that DGB mentioned.

2) He chastised AP for making a case out of nothing but later used that case himself to vote against Acosmist.

- What about his character claim is so compelling?

- If he admits to stretching the truth, that means he is town? I don't understand...

So, yeah, part of me wants to vote TF but the fact that pressure is dissipating on Venmar for no reason smells funny and makes me want to stick with Venmar.[/quote]

[rapidcanyon]

@ NumberQ, I have no idea how safe-claims are given on this site not having played a themed game before (I am currently playing another one though). I may have been missing the mark with my analysis on fake-claims but my FOS on Venmar isn't based solely on safe-claims but rather on behavior as well.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolon, AP came up with a strong case (or at least one he believed in very strongly) and charged forward with crazy determination. I don't know how AP plays as scum but that just screamed "town" to me. You on the other hand were a lot more like the sly fox you usually are when you are scum when you switched from Venmar to TF. You FOSsed Venmar and TF, voted Venmar and changed to TF despite the fact that no compelling evidence showed up in Venmar's favor. I don't buy that he is town just because he claims Prof. Farnsworth. From what I am hearing, scum are given fake-character claims.

Anyways, can't get a read on you. On the one hand, you aggressively go for Venmar instead of following what town does (your town-meta) but on the other, you let go with poor reasoning.

I get a scum read on Venmar though. Based on the fact that people seem to be creating a counterwagon to Venmar just when he is FOSsed, I am more certain about Venmar and am certainly more comfortable lynching Venmar over TF or anyone else.

[rapidcanyon]

Uh, Eidolon, I think Venmar has quite a few votes on him and I for one fully intend to push his lynch. So, if there is anything you want to tell us, you should do so. This whole thing of "I know stuff but I will hide the info from you because I like to keep it a secret" is simply irritating and you do it every game. W/e. Unless Eidolon reveals her "info" and it is good, no reason why we shouldn't lynch Venmar.

[rapidcanyon]

RC, the fact that mafia are potentially given fake claims is not the point. if a character fits much more into the town category than the potential fake claim category, (which, he's honestly one of the only characters in the show that does) i see no reason to go after them immediately, before some flips have given us more information into the game. i see no need to lynch venmar today unless there is something very overwhelmingly scum about him, which there certainly hasn't been.

Anything could be a fake-claim. We won't know until we lynch someone and find out.

There is something overwhelmingly scum about him which you are willfully ignoring and I pointed out multiple times. I know who to go after if Venmar flips scum.

You alluded to having some sort of info that Venmar is town. Is it safe to say that you are just BSing?

[rapidcanyon]

i never "alluded" to having any info.

I'm not going to say anymore on why i think his character is town.

This alludes to having extra information. Why won't you say anymore? If you have any analysis to give, give it.

you are just pulling shit out of your ass to try to make me look bad (because i mentioned you missing something in your town play, huh?)

I am not trying to make you "look bad." I am suspicious that you magically give up on Venmar for no reason.

i'm simply saying that venmars character is convincingly townie and if you are too dense to understand why then i'm sorry but i'm not going to ruin that for your benefit.

No character is "convincingly townie." Anything could be a fake-claim.

I know the case on him. i made it. theres a time when you give it up if something tells you otherwise.

I made a stronger one which he did not yet address. Nothing about him indicated to him being town. You gave up on him simply because Angry pressured TF. That strikes me as suspicious.

[rapidcanyon]

holy shit rapidcanyon is rolefishing so hard

Not "rolefishing." Eidolon has this annoying thing where everytime I ask her a question she brushes me off and says it is none of my business. She used to do that a lot on debate.org as well - the site where we used to play mafia before. W/e, case on Venmar coming up. I don't really care about Eidolon at this moment.

[rapidcanyon]

First, I'll update the list of claims and post an unofficial vote count for easy reference.

(I) Updated list of claims

Dead Players

1) Acosmist ~ Zapp Brannigan (Vanilla Townie) - Lynched Day One - TOWN
2) DrippingGoofball ~ Turanga Leela (Vanilla Townie), Shot Night One - TOWN

Character Claims

1) AngryPidgeon ~ Hermes Conrad
2) Blastoide ~ Philip J. Fry
3) roflcopter ~ scruffy
4) rapidcanyon ~ Bender Bending Rodriguez
5) Venmar ~ Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
6) Cheery Dog ~ John Zoidberg

No Claims

7) Eidolon ~
8) numberQ ~
9) Toon Fighter ~
10) Tangion (prodded) ~
11) vijay2vasandani (force-replaced) ~

(II) Unofficial vote count (6 to lynch)

Toon Fighter [4] AngryPidgeon, Eidolon, rolfcopter, Venmar
Venmar [3] Rapidcanyon, numberQ, Blastoide
roflcopter [1] Toon Fighter
Tangion [1] Cheerydog
AngryPidgeon [0]
Blastoide [0]
Cheery Dog [0]
Eidolon [0]
numberQ [0]
rapidcanyon [0]
vijay2vasandani [0]

Not Voting: Vijay, Tangion

[rapidcanyon]

Analysis of why Venmar is scum

1) The first contradiction

In post 52, Venmar says "

@AngryPidgeon - I don't see how you're getting such concrete facts and reads this early, and why making giant cases and a boatload of reasoning should be expected from people this early in the game.

"

Firstly, it is an attempt to stifle discussion so scummy on its own. However, the real reason Venmar is scummy is because he totally contradicts this post later.

On post 108, he uses AP's analysis to incriminate Acosmist: "

On Page 2 I don't like how Acosmist was egging AP on to slip some kind of a comment that would make him look bad.

"

So, when AP first made this analysis, Venmar discouraged him from making a case but when it suits his purpose later on, he uses this very reasoning to vote on Acosmist.

2) The second contradiction

Venmar is against a name-claim as shown by his post 35, 53, and 72. In all of these, he argues that we should not name claim for various reasons.

In 103, however, he votes Acosmist for for "

reasons exemplified by DGB and some others.

"

What would those reasons be? Let's take a look:

It's taking Acosmist way too long.

Acosmist is a legitimate quicklynch as of now.

And Acosmist is at L-2.

Guess what folks? CLAIM OR DIE TIME

So, basically DGB wanted Acosmist to claim or die. Venmar votes Acosmist "for reasons exemplified by DGB" when his own posts have been against claiming. Venmar is opportunistic scum jumping on the bandwagon.

[rapidcanyon]

you tried to draw a claim out of her for like three straight posts.

that is so anti town. if you are town and you think you've identified a town power role you should <i>shut the fuck up and accept what they say</i> not force a claim. now get on the toon fighter wagon or i'll go back to lynching you today.[/quote]

I made an airtight case against Venmar. Time to bus, scum.

[rapidcanyon]

RC, could you paraphrase the flavor in ur PM for me?

I am Bender Bending Rodriguez, the coolest girl grabbing, cigar smoking, alcohol chugging robot in the Galaxy. Here is a link to who the heck Bender is if I happenned to sign up for this game without knowing who he is. <Link>

<Insert role name and description here> (I am not claiming it yet, obviously)

I win when all the Mafia players are gone, whether or not I survive to the end.

What are you going to do when I flip town, RC? What then?

I am not sure. I'd have to re-evaluate all the players.

- The second one is total bullshit, I didn't say my Acosmist vote was purely based off of DGB's reasoning in the first place, only a bit. Second of all, I didn't say why DGB was voting for Acosmist, you just decided to put words in my mouth by choosing what quotes I was referring to when making the case. Those aren't the reasons at all for why I agreed to DGB.

- Not to mention you seem to be largely against change, as if i'm not allowed to change my mind in situations when I feel it would be better for the town..

The below is your quote:

Okay, well i'm going to go ahead and:

Vote: Acosmist

For reasons exemplified by DGB and some others.

It was not base

purely

of off DGB's reasoning but rather

primarily

of off her reasoning. Is there any other reason, you specifically decided to mention DGB as well as other instead of just saying "others?"

- Please point out which DGB quote you agreed with.

[rapidcanyon]

Updated scum-reads:

1) Venmar
2) Rolfcopter

If anyone thinks Roflcopter is bussing TF, then they should vote Roflcopter. I am open to switching my vote. We can lynch him first and then worry about TF.

Also, 234 comes off as really off - more of a threat to do something that rofl wants. Anyways, I am unsure about TF but if anyone thinks Rofl is bussing, then vote Rofl. This way, you take down someone you think is scum but you also have my vote to help the lynch.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Roflcopter, you are not confirmed town in any way.

Okay, since you want to be confrontational:

Unvote Vote Rolfcopter

[rapidcanyon]

i didn't say i am. i said i will be. there's a world of difference.

You could bus a mafioso (maybe TF) and say you are confirmed. I am not buying it though.

[rapidcanyon]

Well, that is funny. Why do you start to think Rofl is town just when he becomes a viable lead?

[rapidcanyon]

@ Angry, if you think Rofl is bussing TF, then vote Rofl.

Also, why does a scum-read suddenly seem town to you when he acts more scummy, not less and there is more than 1 vote on him? That is quite contradictory.

And I don't really see the big deal about TF's posts. He made 4 posts in all. Much better leads at this point i.e. rofl.

[rapidcanyon]

Angry is scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Angry, your vote simply makes no sense from a town perspective. You initially say that you find Rofl suspicious, but when it seems like Rofl is actually a viable lynch candidate, you suddenly find him town and go towards his side. As scum though it makes perfect sense.

I don't think TF is scum at this point. Angry's and Rofl's reactions make no sense if he was scum unless all 3 are scum which is unlikely.

Right now, I am still going to go with Rofl. Case later. We should lynch him today.

[rapidcanyon]

sigh. i actually am leaning slight town on rc but it's kinda hard to tell right now.

as town he is usually two things: very stubborn, and very analytical.

his density isn't a scum tell for him, imo. but his logic is lacking a bit compared to normal which might allude to scum motivation.

RC, you don't see the inherent flaw in telling AP to vote for the busser rather than the bussee?

I am not sure if the "bussee" is scum, so we might not reach a lynch on him. But with Rofl, AP has my vote so it is a more practical lynch.

Also, why are you voting for TF? If you think Rofl is bussing, let's lynch Rofl.

Pedit: I am not acting scummy. You are just saying that out of nowhere.

[rapidcanyon]

I said Angry is scum because he made a huge effort to distance himself from Rofl when there was no pressure on him but when it seems like a lynch can actually happen, he retracts and votes for me instead. So, I think the scumteam is Angry, Rofl, and someone else, no idea who.

[rapidcanyon]

Why don't you tell me why you think TF is scum and Rofl is town?

[rapidcanyon]

W/e, I am too tired right now. I'll make a case for lynching Rofl tomorrow but it should be fairly obvious that the scumteam are Rofl and maybe Angry or Eidolon. Eidolon is usually a very smart player. She never acts stupid when town. But first priority is Rofl.

[rapidcanyon]

rc's logic appears to be "several people suspect toon fighter. one person thinks rofl is bussing toon fighter. therefore anyone who would consider lynching toon fighter should first lynch rofl." which is just hilariously flawed and an obvious play to save toon fighter from the noose.

That was meant just for Angry and Eidolon who both mentioned that you could be bussing toonfighter. I am not at all convinced TF is scum based on yours and Angry's reactions.

Also, there is absolutely no reason to lynch TF so I am pretty sure a good chunk of the votes on him are scum.

[rapidcanyon]

@ NumberQ and Blastoide, I think Roflcopter is a better choice than Venmar. Notice how he tried to derail the Venmar wagon and presented an alternate target? It makes sense to do so as scum. Let's lynch Rofl today and we can come back and analyze his behaviors with respect to the others tomorrow.

[rapidcanyon]

rc, if i were mod confirmed town who would you be suspicious of?

You aren't...

[rapidcanyon]

Ugh, I don't know. If you were mod-confirmed town, that would negate my theory that you are derailing the Venmar wagon but it makes sense why Venmar was so eager to agree with you "Rofl is right" etc. It would make sense for scum to buddy with a townie. Day1, I found him most suspicious. I'll be somewhat suspicious of Eidolon since her play isn't really making much sense and she isn't posting a lot either. I'd also leave the possibility open that you were right about TF and are town pushing for a scum lynch.

[rapidcanyon]

Rofl, are you saying you can objectively confirm yourself as town later on? I mean not by pushing scum lynches but mod-confirmation?

[rapidcanyon]

Innocent child? Well, if Rofl already soft-claimed it, I see no reason why he can't get mod-confirmation now. Scum will kill him anyways so it is not like they'll wait till LYLO to see whether he comes out as innocent child. They'll kill him ASAP.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Rofl, get your mod-confirmation and we'll talk about other suspects.

[rapidcanyon]

what part of "hypothetical" don't you get i wanted to see if you had the capacity to think beyond your tunnel vision but your answer demonstrates you clearly don't.

I did explain to you who my suspects were going to be if you are mod-confirmed as town. If you can be, do so now instead of having me waste time writing a case to lynch you - which if you are town won't help at all.

[rapidcanyon]

It is not "rolefishing." I am trying to figure out if you are town. You have two votes on you from me and TF. If you want to wait till you have 5, that is your perogative.

[rapidcanyon]

Scumreads so far:

1) Eidolon
2) Roflcopter
3) Maybe Venmar or Angry, not sure

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolon, you still haven't explained why you think Rofl is town and TF is scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, Eidolon, you STILL haven't explained why you think Venmar is town. You are copping out of every question I asked you. I would be highly surprised if you are town.

@ Rofl, if you can objectively confirm yourself as town (either through mod or throgh role) SAY SO and I'll make a case for lynching Eidolon as opposed to you.

Note: this doesn't include pushing scum lynches - scum can bus. It has to be objective confirmation.

[rapidcanyon]

Cheerydog, do you have the capability to READ?

[rapidcanyon]

You are just quoting nonsense that has already been responded to and casting a random vote, dumbass.

[rapidcanyon]

If you want to vote for TF, that is fine but it makes no sense to vote for me based on nothing.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, if you don't agree that TF is scum, then vote Rofl or Eidolon. Are you really that DENSE and STUPID that you don't know who is voting for who and randomly cast votes without thinking? You are the dumbest piece of shit I've ever had the misfortune to encounter.

[rapidcanyon]

Unvote Vote Cheerydog

for policy lynch. He is too stupid to play this game.

[rapidcanyon]

I'd vote Eidolon but I'd much rather get rid of stupid people at this point than smart scum. Actually we don't know if Cheerydog is scum based on his stupidity so might as well lynch him and find out.

[rapidcanyon]

So I'm not allowed to offer my opinion on things that happened while I was asleep?

You presented no opinions. You just quoted a bunch of random quotes and voted like a moron. Either you are scum trying to throw an inconspicuous vote or you are genuinely stupid and couldn't be bothered to read the thread.

You are just quoting nonsense that has already been responded to and casting a random vote, dumbass.

and it's not a random vote, my previous vote was random, this one is there because of the second quote I posted.

Your second quote says I derailed the TF wagon which you hadn't even agreed with in the first place. If you don't agree with it, you vote FOR the people on the wagon, moron. You don't vote for the one who derailed it. This is why I seriously doubt either your sanity or your townieness.

and you're yet again OMGUSing people you cast suspicion onto you.

It is not OMGUS. Your stupidity is astounding and your logic makes no sense. Like I said, if you disagree that TF is scum, you vote for the people on TF's wagon, not for me. This is why you are either a dumbass or scum. You didn't READ. You just pulled a couple of quotes and voted. It is people like you who are irritating to deal with because I feel like I have to explain each sentence like talking to a child.

If you want to vote for TF, that is fine but it makes no sense to vote for me based on nothing.

If I wanted to vote for TF, I would, however I want to vote you so I am.

Also, if you don't agree that TF is scum, then vote Rofl or Eidolon. Are you really that DENSE and STUPID that you don't know who is voting for who and randomly cast votes without thinking?

Why should I be voting people I believe are town?

You SHOULDN'T believe they are town, you stupid fuck. They are pushing the wagon you disagreed with. I am the one trying to push a wagon on Rofl.

You ignore everything and pull up a random quote on "role-fishing" and vote me. What are you? 3 years old? Read the fucking thread before voting.

[rapidcanyon]

Anyways, took a quick break. Point is, Cheerydog is pretending to have not read the thread properly, quoting a couple of random posts and voted me. Even if Rofl and Eidolon are town, Cheerydog has no reason to believe it. He also has no reason to vote for me. I realized that most people here aren't stupid. Cheerydog must be scum. There is no question about it.

[rapidcanyon]

And he disappears...

How much more obvious can this be? He asked me a question while slipping in a vote. He could have just asked without voting.

Also, Eidolon still didn't explain what additional info she had regarding Venmar. She didn't explain why she thought he was town. She didn't explain why she thought Rofl was town and TF was scum. She just voted and disappeared.

Scum are Cheerydog, Eidolon and somebody else.

Pedit: What? Do you just talk nonsense or can you make complete sentences?

You don't have to be on a wagon to derail it? What is that supposed to mean?

Okay, TF is null to you. So, why vote me? Your vote makes no sense at all. You can ask a question without voting.

You don't understand how is 100% obvscum, then vote AngryPidgeon, Eidolon, or Rofl and ask them to explain. Why vote me?

[rapidcanyon]

Cheerydog, do you seriously expect me to believe that it doesn't strike you as suspicious that Angry lists Rofl as one of his scumreads and me as one of his town reads while voting TF but when me and Rofl vote each other, he votes for me?

If you were town, you would be voting Angry or one of the many suspicious people right now instead of pulling a couple of random quotes out of your ass and voting me. There is no ways you are town. If you are,

1) unvote
2) Read the thread
3) Vote for obvious scum

and I mean, actually read. If you can't muster the effort to read and are town, you really shouldn't be playing this game.

[rapidcanyon]

Are you seriously stupid cheerydog? There are 4 scummy people who parked their voted on toonfighter for ABSOLUTELY no reason.

Eidolon for instance asks me why I thought Venmar was scummier. I explain it to her and she does NOTHING. She doesn't switch her vote. She just parks it on TF for absolutely no reason despite the case on Venmar being infinitely stronger. She isn't dense or stupid as town. She is scum. She, Cheerydog, and Venmar.

[rapidcanyon]

You are a stupid moron. I didn't put words into Venmar's mouth. I gave good reasoning. Learn to read English, stupid, fucking dumbass. It is morons like you that make the game a drag to play.

[rapidcanyon]

W/e, I am the watcher.

[rapidcanyon]

There is NOTHING convincing about the TF case. You are just stupid to believe it. HE made 4 freaking posts. My case on Venmar was airtight. You are scum. There is no way a rational townie would believe that the case on TF was stronger than the one on Venmar. Anyways, my role auto-confirms me so time to die, scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, question for Eidolon, did anything negative happen to you last night?

[rapidcanyon]

^ That is probably my 100th question that she is just going to ignore.

[rapidcanyon]

Because I am the watcher, obviously. There won't be more than one watcher in the game. Even if scum cc me and get a mislynch, they get immediately lynched next.

Are you really this stupid or is this an act?

[rapidcanyon]

Also, if you are referencing posts, make links to them.

[rapidcanyon]

Anyways, this douchebag is either a moron or scum. I'll wait for the others to log on and vote him.

[rapidcanyon]

unvote, vote: toon fighter

Seems like this is the only way this day thread is going to go.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, question for Eidolon, did anything negative happen to you last night?

Not that i am aware of. Let me ask the mod something first. I'd suggest NOT mentioning who targeted me.

Anyways, lmao, how do i ignore your questions? I. wasnt. online. for. the. last. 12. hours.

I had to go immediately after i answered you because i got a movie to watch w/ my bf. (the devil inside - decent horror movie. doesn't live up to my high expectations since watching paranormal activities and insidious)

Anyways. Here's why TF is scum: look at his reaction to pressure!!!! He didn't say ANYTHING except give his character claim. If you weren't suspicious of him before, doesn't that kind of ring a bell? I'm sorry but there is no way that that is town. It's someone who is mad he got bussed by a partner most likely and is not saying anymore to dodge being connected to someone else.

You were voting him before he logged on to character claim if I recall correctly.

And here's why ROFL might be town: he softclaimed a confirmable role. Him "bussing" TF is dependent on TF flipping scum. Unless he flips, theres never a way to be 100% sure that he's scum. If TF flips, and his role doesn't come through, i'll look at him.

Okay, fair enough. The soft-claim was what convinced me to lay off of him.

But you avoided my question: Why did you think Venmar is town?

Now, tell me again why we should lynch ROFL over TF? How exactly am i playing stupid? Because I'm not following your every move? WTF? your moves are inherently flawed and you haven't showed me why rofl is scum. Your only reasoning has been "responses to the tf situation"

We'll wait for the soft claim to come out next day and we can go from there. I would suggest lynching Venmar or CheeryDog over TF but obviously, you are just going to shoot it down.

Venmar, thoughts on the RC situation?

What "situation?" You are acting like I am being so scummy when I am playing exactly how I always play.

When half of the game disagrees with you, maybe it means you need to reevaluate, rather than them being scum. Who do you want to lynch today and what is your reasoning on them?

PEDIT: venmar i pretty much agree with you on rc.

I already posted a case against Venmar. You just ignored it for a much weaker case against TF. That is why your behavior doesn't make sense. I ask you why you think Venmar is town. You just provided vague banalities.

[rapidcanyon]

Re TF thing: there were other reasons but i already posted them. I'm just saying that if you hadn't considered it before, there is a big clue.

Okay, and that "clue" is?

RE Venmar: i explained about 5 times why i laid off on venmar. It wasn't a "Vague banality". Sorry if you perceive it that way but i'm not going to explain myself again.

No, you didn't. You unvoted on a perfectly good lead at an opportunistic time for absolutely no reason and when I asked, you basically threw in a few inconsequential words "he seems town" and left the wagon. You have no good reason to be on TF at all but you despite vote him despite the cases on Venmar and TF being so lopsided that there is literally no reason to vote him over Venmar except self-preservation i.e. if the other option for a lynch happens to be you.

The fact that you haven't made a case on who you have been going after, and that you gave in to a TF vote even though you obviously don't believe in it, has me suspicious. It's like you just got angry and then gave up. where has the analysis gone?

I'd rather TF be lynched than me. Also, you are probably going to completely ignore it anyways. I already posted a case on Venmar. What do you want me to do? Copy-paste it so you can say "nah, he seems town but I won't say why."

Yes, i know you made a case for venmar, but in the last 4 or 5 pages or so you've been going after ROFL with no reasoning, and haven't given reasoning on the other players that you supposedly suspect, besides saying that they are "stupid morons"

Cheerydog, not ROFL. I initially suspected Rofl but will lay off of him till next day when he can come out with his "confirmation."

I haven't given any reasoning on Cheerydog? His play makes it obvious that he is scum. I pointed this out. He just popped in, quoted a couple of random posts and voted me. If that doesn't scream "scum", I don't know what does.

[rapidcanyon]

What was so negative? I am saying it like it is. I am not entirely sure on Venmar at least, not as certain about him as Cheery but I'll post my reasoning as to why I think Cheery is scum in a little while.

I haven't given up for "no reason." I gave up because everybody and their dog is so sure that it is either me or TF that has to be lynched today. I'd rather lynch TF since I can't guarantee his affiliation the way I can guarantee that I know I am town. So, if is has to be him or me, then better him than me. It is not like he was so useful as a townie anyways.

Why I think TF is town? I don't necessarily think he is town. He made 4 posts in the game. I don't understand what is so terribly incriminating about those posts that demands a lynch. Sure, he doesn't seem very bright to me, but it comes off as noob-ish town than noob-ish scum. Gut feeling I guess, at least partly.

[rapidcanyon]

I'll

Unvote

on TF. I'll explain why I am suspicious of Cheerydog later.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, so let's look at CheeryDog's posts this game:

His first 10 posts have been utterly useless this game. AngryPidgeon pointed this out and cheery himself has agreed that they are useless.

Now, let's look at post 235. He says that the least townie of the actives are roflcopter and numberQ so they are his suspicions. However, when Rofl and I accuse each other, Cheerydog has logged offline. As soon as he came online, instead of seeing that his "suspect" Roflcopter is now a viable wagon and vote for him, Cheerydog picks two completely random posts and votes for me.

In 236, he says "

If we think rolf is bussing, then the bussee must also be scum, because that's how bussing works. What makes rolf the better target when both of them could be town?

" So, that means, he should be voting for TF. Or even if he didn't consider bussing, he should be voting for his initial suspicion, Rofl. Instead, he votes me. The reasoning doesn't add up. He simply voted me because he didn't want to vote for Rofl. When rofl had no wagon going on him, Cheery had no problem distancing, but when it did, he chooses to vote for me because by Cheery's reasoning, TF must be scum. It doesn't add up. He simply saw me as an easy target because Angry was suspicious of me. His vote doesn't align with who he finds suspicions. Of course, he fabricates reasons for finding me suspicious after I confront him and demand that he give them - but we'll get to that later. Let's go through the rest of his initial post first.

He edits my post and inserts my screenname instead of Rofl's and says "

NumberQ and Blastoide, I think rapidcanyon is a better choice than Venmar. Notice how he tried to derail the TF wagon and presented an alternate target? It makes sense to do so as scum. Let's lynch rapidcanyon today and we can come back and analyze his behaviors with respect to the others tomorrow.

" This part is basically a joke. Editing people's posts and inserting stuff that wasn't there. I can see scum motivation behind throwing in a vote on a wagon and passing it off as a joke so it wouldn't come back to haunt him if the player is lynched and flips innocent. Next, he asks me what rolefishing is and votes me: "

Please give your definition of 'rolefishing' so that I can understand how it is not rolefishing. UNVOTE: , VOTE: rapidcanyon

"

First off, I haven't been rolefishing. Secondly, a question can be asked nicely in order to get a response. Why throw in a vote? His method of voting and giving shoddy reasoning points to a scum that wants to add his vote to a townie without drawing too much attention to himself. And he would have passed too if I hadn't initially mistaken him for a stupid townie and called him out on it.

After I point out that by his logic, he should be voting Rofl, he says "

why should I vote someone I think is town?

" But he doesn't think Rofl is town. He was suspicious of rofl. He only switched his vote because he found me an easier target due to Angry voting for me and Eidolon's latest suspicion.

In Cheery's 299, he completely misrepresents everything I said. He says "

You open day 2 with NK speculation, you then vote venmar who had FOS'ed you doing Day 1. (example one of OMGUS).

" This is basically a lie. On post 147, I give detailed reasoning for voting Venmar. I explain why I think he is scummy for contradicting himself on AP and DGB. I make a detailed case and vote him. Nowhere did I mention Venmar's day 1 FOS on me. The fact that Cheery is lying to discredit my read and portraying it as OMGUS shows that he is distorting facts to suit his needs. So, that's another reason to lynch Cheery - he is manipulating information.

I hoped to make my case without quotes but since I think they capture Cheery's scumminess perfectly, I'll include a few but try to keep them minimal. I encourage everyone to read carefully since it will prove how Cheery's logic is flawed.

Post 273[/post]: You come up with why venmar is scum and completely ignore his 108 (which you had mentioned in an earlier post) and place words in his mouth about his Post 103 and question him on this which was already done during Day 1 (aka 107 by #Q) and he gave answers to it in 108.

Okay, so 273, I come up with why Venmar is scum? No. I "came up" with why Venmar is scum on 147. 273 was a simple FOS based on an already made case. I think Cheery is confusing the numbers so I'll let that one slide.

His next accusation: I completely ignore Venmar's 108. Take a minute to read through what Venmar actually said in 108.

Venmar: "

On Page 2 I don't like how Acosmist was egging AP on to slip some kind of a comment that would make him look bad.

"

I have not ignored this. I pointed out that this statement was at odds with Venmar's earlier chastisement of AngryPidgeon when AP had made that exact same case. So, Venmar went after AP for that case. Later, Venmar used it himself to support an Acosmist lynch. I pointed this out and FOSsed Venmar. Cheerydog shuts his eyes and claims I ignored it. Again, a blatant lie. Another strike against Cheerydog. Regardless of Venmar's affiliation, Cheery is just using whatever means he can to FOS me without providing any reasons that aren't things he overlooked or just flat-out lies.

The rest of Venmar's comment was just justifying after the fact why he thought Acosmist was scum. He said Acosmist didn't contribute to scumhunting, blah, blah, blah. Nothing remarkable. Nothing strong enough to override Venmar's two contradictions. Just run-of-the-mill, "Acosmist was scummy."

Cheerydog's next accusation: I "place words" in Venmar's mouth about his 103. Again, I never placed words into anyone's mouth. Let's look at 103 to find out what it really is.

Venmar says: "

Okay, well i'm going to go ahead and Vote: Acosmist For reasons exemplified by DGB and some others.

"

I point out how this is contradictory since DGB was pushing for claims and demanded that Acosmist claim or die. Venmar disagreed with claiming so he

shouldn't

be saying "claim or die" or agreeing with DGB on that matter and lynching people based off of it. Cheerydog doesn't understand or pretends not to understand my point. I was interpreting Venmar's statement and trying to figure out what about DGB he agreed with. CheeryDog shoves a blanket statement "putting words in Venmar's mouth" and votes me. He is voting me based on infomation he (Cheery) fabricated himself and saying "throwing words in Venmar's mouth" while sensational, is neither true nor accurate. It is a fabricated scumtell used by lazy scum when they want to vote a townie but refuse to give sound reasoning.

Cheery claims Venmar already gave answers to my question in 108. 108 contradicted his stance on AP so I didn't buy it. AP gave reasoning and Venmar bashed it. Then he voted Acosmist. When asked why, he gave AP's reasoning. Small wonder I found Venmar suspicious. So, again, Cheery completely missed the point.

That concludes Cheery's 299. Moving on to 302:

The venmar case is stronger because you believe yourself to be this "obvtown everyone sheep me" player?
here's a hint for you: You're not DGB and your playstyle doesn't work that way.
Venmar is the only one I see that didn't give a reason for his TF vote other than agreeing, Eidolon was also mostly agreeing but she had given him suspicion in the previous post. Ap and rofl did give reason for their votes however, while I may not think they were good ones they were still there, and thus not "for ABSOLUTELY no reason." I wasn't convinced by your venmar case (as it was flawed and I just proved that via my reread), so why should I believe it to be superior when I was actually more convinced by the TF case(s).

He says I believe myself to be a "sheep me" player. This is interesting but it actually makes me think Cheery

knows

that I am town. He critisizes my town playstyle while also voting for me and it gives me the impression that he is expecting me to flip town. Secondly, my playstyle is nothing like DGB. I made a huge wall of text explaining why I suspected Venmar. DGB never did so. She doesn't post analysis. So, Cheery's accusation makes no sense. In any case, he is accusing me of being a flawed townie (which I am not) - at least that is the impression I get from his accusation, and this betrays that he knows I am already town.

Another point to note: he says that AP and Rofl gave reasons for their votes on TF but they were not good. How then did Cheery find the TF case convincing? They were the two people who provided reasons for going after TF. Cheery didn't like them, yet he finds the case against TF convincing - this despite the fact that Cheery had initially never understood why TF was scum. Nothing matches here. Cheery is all over the place. Whose reasons did he find convincing? Did he think TF is scum at all. He keeps fluctuating all over the place. He says he wasn't convinced by my Venmar case based on a string of lies and misreps that he (Cheerydog) posted on his re-read. He threw blanket statements like "OMGUS" and "putting words in Venmar's mouth" to make me look bad and for sensational effect but failed to address the arguments at hand. His responses to me calling him out also seems to be somewhat appeasing me while he keeps his vote on me.

So... based on all this evidence, I think Cheery is the best lynch today. Regardless of Venmar's alignment - because even if Venmar was town, the reasons that Cheerydog offered for believing that Venmar is town don't add up and could be a simple case of a scummy buddying up.

VOTE: Cheerydog

[rapidcanyon]

TL; DR

Oh, yeah. I thought that might happen.

Tl, dr; Lynch Cheerydog. He is scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Seriously though, you couldn't be bothered to read?

[rapidcanyon]

Cheerydog, opinions can change based on new evidence. Townies change opinions all the time and scum pretend to change opinions all the time. How do you distinguish? You try and figure out whether the change of opinion is based on good reasoning or is just opportunistic bandwagoning. Your "changes" were of the latter.

I didn't ignore any posts as I have proved. Cheerydog is now just making statements with no proof. I showed why his accusation of "ignoring" is false.

I tried to get people off of TF and onto Rofl. Cheery says that he found me scummy then. However, Cheery had still been null about TF and felt Rofl was the least townie at that time. So, I was getting people off of Cheery's null read and onto Cheery's scum read. There is no reason to find me scummy for it. This is a mafioso pretending to change his opinion as opposed to a townie changing his opinion because it is not backed by sound logic.

He says Rolf became a "townread" at 278. What was Rofl's post at 278? A lie. He said "what part of "hypothetical" don't you get i wanted to see if you had the capacity to think beyond your tunnel vision but your answer demonstrates you clearly don't."

Why? I had already thought up the hypothetical and gave a response to Rofl at 273. I told him who I would suspect and answered his hypothethetical. Rofl ignored it and posted 278. Somehow Cheery got a "town-read" on Rofl. Considering that the read is based on a falsehood, Cheery's "opinion-change" is illegitimate. I wasn't "rolefishing." I was trying to get enough information to make the right decision. Again, Cheery throws blanket labels without trying to understand anything.

Also, extend the strongest part of my arguments which were towards the middle and bottom of my case. Cheery ignored them only to address a less important argument about opinion changes. My case against him is based on a plethora of factors - the opinion change is probably the least impactful part of my case.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Cheery, I showed that the "faults" you found in my Venmar case were lies and misreps. You don't address them. You just state already refuted arguments. You couldn't have been convinced by 278 because the accusations of 278 were answered in 273. There is no way 278 would have changed your read if you were town because the arguments made there were addressed in 273. A "bunch of tosh" is just your opinion.

But whatever, just keep shaking your head and saying "no" despite all your points being refuted until you get lynched because I care about lynching you much, much more at this point than I care about lynching Venmar.

[rapidcanyon]

Updated list of claims

Dead Players

1) Acosmist ~ Zapp Brannigan (Vanilla Townie) - Lynched Day One - TOWN
2) DrippingGoofball ~ Turanga Leela (Vanilla Townie), Shot Night One - TOWN

Character Claims

1) AngryPidgeon ~ Hermes Conrad
2) Blastoide ~ Philip J. Fry
3) roflcopter ~ scruffy
4) rapidcanyon ~ Bender Bending Rodriguez
5) Venmar ~ Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
6) Cheery Dog ~ John Zoidberg
7) Eidolon ~ Kif kroker
8) Toon Fighter ~ Calculon, the acting robot

No Claims

9) numberQ ~
10) Tangion (prodded) ~
11) vijay2vasandani (force-replaced) ~

Updated Reads

I think Angry is town. Rofl is probably town if he can prove his alignment. Based on behavior, I am suspicious, so I look forward to the next day when he will hopefully prove his alignment. Blastoide and NumberQ read null to me. Blastoide hasn't been posting much but claimed the protagonist. I'd say he and NumberQ are town if Venmar flips scum. Regardless of Venmar's affiliation, slightly suspicious of Eidolon due to her defending him for faulty reasons. Scum buddying with town/scum buddying with scum? Angry did the same thing but that is just what Angry does: go with gut and rarely provide reasoning. NumberQ is hard to get a read on. Unvoted Venmar saying he seems "town." Nothing Venmar did so far seems town to me although I wouldn't put it past him being town and scum buddying with him. Tangion needs to post more.

So, anyways scumreads: Venmar, Cheerydog (read cases for detailed explanation)
Leaning scum: Eidolon (willfully ignoring good reasoning and voting based on no reasoning)
Null: Blastoide (post more), Tangion (post more), TF (post more), Rofl (I'll wait to see what you come up with for "confirmation")
Town - AngryPidgeon

Anyways, I am already voting for Cheerydog and Angry is as well. I'd go with Venmar but if I have to choose, Cheery obviously seems more practical. Next Day, when Rofl confirms himself and stops me from worrying about whether he is scum or town, I'd suggest Venmar.

[rapidcanyon]

cheery dog's post 299 wins all the prizes. but with the roleclaim we can leave rapidcanyon for tomorrow and deal with caught scum today.

unvote, vote: toon fighter

@ Rofl, no.

[rapidcanyon]

^ Quote error. My response was to 350 above, not 325.

[rapidcanyon]

And those problems would be?

In any case, though, if we are all agreed that Cheery is scummy, let's lynch him.

[rapidcanyon]

I am not certain about TF scum. I think it is Cheery. Angry, if you think it is Cheery, then vote him.

Also, Eidolon, if you are town, don't be swayed by a mere command from Rofl as opposed to an entire case from me.

[rapidcanyon]

Disregarding potential "confirmations", I think Rofl is scum. When he gets those confirmations, I'll re-evaluate.

[rapidcanyon]

Your desperation to not get Cheery lynched is amazing as well. Cheery actually acted scummy. TF posted nothing. I'd rather lynch scummy people than null people.

[rapidcanyon]

I think scum is Cheery, Venmar, and Rofl pending his confirmation.

[rapidcanyon]

Angry, how are you certain that Rofl is town after that triple post? He offered no analysis, he admitted to not even reading the case on Cheery. He asks Eidolon to "trust him" and vote Rofl.

If Eidolon is town, she most certainly isn't going to vote based on such poor reasoning. That is not how she acts as town. So, her reaction will give us some insight.

Also, Blastoide, Tangion and others need to get online and post analysis.

Pedit: I see where you are coming from Angry and I am just pissed off that the guy never logged on to defend himself. But Cheery is actually scummy while TF is lurking. So, let's lynch scummy over lurker.

PPedit: We kill Cheery today. TF is not getting my vote.

[rapidcanyon]

Guys, Rofl posted bunch of bullshit. Compare it to my well-thought out case on Cheery. Cheery is a much better lynch option today than TF.

Pedit: You posted a couple one-liners. If she votes based on your case, there is no way she is town.

[rapidcanyon]

Lol. You are right. tPost 149 makes the RC/TF team look probable. Either way the entire case on TF starts and ends right here:

one person who is emitting scum vibes for me today is rofl. He immediately starts attacking rc for his nightkill speculation (which is not bad on itself, and could be useful), and spends the next few posts just defending Venmar, with no evidence whatsoever. scumbuddy much? vote: roflcopter

If RC/TF are scum then TF is bussing him and counterwagoning rofl.

RC doesn't necessarily have to be scum, but the above quote is pretty much a scum claim from TF.

P-edit: Ok if TF flips scum then RC goes IMMEDIATELY.

If TF flips scum, I am still going for Cheery.

[rapidcanyon]

Angry, WHY are you unvoting on a perfectly good wagon on Cheery? After rofl posted a couple of lines of BS? Are you really that gullible? I made about 1000 word long detailed case on why Cheery is scum. Let's lynch Cheery today. We'll see if Rofl can confirm himself tomorrow.

[rapidcanyon]

look, rapid, i was going back over your iso and i even found your little watcher breadcrumb you dropped (why didn't you point back to it when you claimed??). you should be watching me tonight because i am by far the most likely nightkill. if you do not you should be lynched tomorrow with extreme prejudice and i will be very disappointed in this town if they don't do just that.

You mad? Why would I watch my biggest scumread? The only way that is going to happen is if you prove you are town. Now is your chance.

this is all predicated on the fact that the toon fighter lynch will go through today and he will flip scum, because both of these things are true facts.

Nope, cheery is getting lynched today.

[rapidcanyon]

Re 379: It is level of detail and reasoning given in the case that explains Cheery's scum motivation that makes it a better case, not just the number of words although giving a detailed case takes more words.

Look, I am not watching my biggest scumread. If you want to be watched, prove to me that you are town.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, I already mentioned pages ago that you could be bussing so even IF TF flips scum, I am coming after you next unless you prove that you are town.

[rapidcanyon]

I am thinking of multiple possibilties in hypotheticals. Does that sound scummy to you?

Look, if you really are town, then act pro-town and prove it. Otherwise, your behavior just screams scum to me. Prove me wrong - if you can.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Angry, if they are both scummy, let's lynch Cheery.

Why would scum-rofl bus TF? Town cred. I've seen it before. I'll post links if you want but obviously you have seen bussing before. In Chosen mafia, scum McStab bussed scum-Greywing and got a lot of towncred and town let him lead them. Greywing was inactive. Makes sense to bus inactive, useless scum.

Other possibility, TF is town, Rofl is scum or town and wrong.

If you don't want me to ask rofl to prove his role, fine. Just tell him that if he wants to be watched, the worst way to do it is to give attitude to the person who he is trying to get to watch him.

Anyways, I am still on Cheery. Let's go for him first. I am far more certain of him being scum. Why? I actually interacted with him. I know for a fact that he presented poor reasoning for voting me - too convenient. I know that lied and misrepped. I know that he made baseless accusations. I don't know what TF is like. We can get a better idea by having him be replaced and analyzing the posts.

Rofl just busted in, put no effort into making a case and said "hey let's lynch TF."

Who are my town reads? AngryPidgeon. The others haven't been posting enough for me to determine much about them. NumberQ was a townread until he made that fluff post about me and cheery being town and left without voting. Blastoide too, I guess but he is lurking way too much for my liking, so he back to null.

Pedit: You are dumb if you think I am going to watch my biggest scumread.

[rapidcanyon]

Regarding bussing - The certainty with which Rofl is going after TF while at the same time putting forth no effort to present a logical case is what makes me consider bussing as a real possibilty. TF if scum is utterly useless to the scumteam. He made 4-5 posts in 2 days. He is not going to push wagons on townies. He is not going to be there to quickhammer at LYLO. Likely the town would have time to unvote. Point is, there is literally zero benefit to having him on a scumteam besides dead weight. It makes sense for scum to bus him.

Regarding Eidolon, yeah her first post came across as very townish, the one where she voted Venmar, her subsequent posts have become scummier and scummier.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolon, there is no way you are town if TF flips town. You ignored a perfectly good case against Cheery and voted on TF. If he flips town, I will consider you confirmed scum. The suspcion is just building higher and higher with each post you make.

Actually screw that:

There is just no way you are town, period. You basically voted TF because Rofl told you to and ignored my well thought out case because of "holes" you wouldn't mention. My logic isn't flawed, you just say it is. I never said I was a better player than you. I know you are a much better player than me both as town and as scum and I always openly admitted it. I just don't think you are town this game. First, you unvote Venmar for no reason, then you refuse to vote for Cheery.

How is TF a scumread to you? Explain. Or are you just going to ignore that as well.

Unvote Cheery

Vote Eidolon

[rapidcanyon]

Case on Eidolon later. Or should I even bother? W/e, I'll try my best.

[rapidcanyon]

There is plenty of time before the deadline. No reason we can't lynch her. I'll wait for NumberQ, Blastoide, Tangion, and TF to weigh in and see what they want to do. Lynching her is a very real possibility. I'll decide whether I should bother posting a case after I hear their reads.

[rapidcanyon]

You are the one who ignored what I said. I am not "bullying." Why do you say that?

[rapidcanyon]

Well, out of all the players on the site, I think you are the most fun to play with. I am just disappointed that you think I am bullying. W/e, I'll replace out if you want. I don't want to but I'll do it.

Pedit: you didn't answer why you thought Venmar was town. You never gave a case for voting TF besides he didn't defend himself despite the fact that I asked you a 1000 times.

I am not saying you aren't town if you don't do things "my way." I am saying, as town, you usually vote for the most likely scum. I explained why Cheery is our best lead. You ignored it and voted TF based on about nothing. This isn't your usual town behavior. That is why I think you are scum. You also forgot about Venmar way too easily.

[rapidcanyon]

RC, you really annoy me with how you say i'm scum in like every game we play together. just because i don't follow your plans doesn't make me scum. i catch scum great on my own, thank you very much. just look at the game where i replaced you. so you saying im scum because i havent been "following (your flawed) logic" and i need to do this, this and this in order to be town is bs and you know it.

I never at any point in all our interactions together claimed to be a better player than you. I know you are better than me as both town and as scum and have admitted that and never contested you when you claim you are so good, you can "read me like a book." So, why are trying to prove your town skills to me when I pretty much concede it all?

stop bullying other players. it gets you no where. we've gone over this already.

Okay. I am sorry.

anyways, i'm fairly confident in rofl and ap town reads. i'm still confused about rc though i'm leaning town. venmar and blastoide town.

Agreed on AP. Why are you confident that Rofl is town? Is it the soft-claim? Well, my read on him is dependent entirely on whether it pans out.

Why do you think Venmar is town? You never really explain it at all. I went through the effort of picking apart every sentence everyone said in defence of Venmar. I am sorry but it is really frustrating when you just shake your head and say "nah, town" when I think I am right and spent half an hour explaining why.

i think cheery and tf are both suspicious.

Well, since you are suspicious of Cheery, makes sense to lynch him.

Cheery's posts are just confusing to me and i really don't understand his perspective. but that doesn't necessarily relate to his alignment.

Exactly what was confusing? Why not ask him to clarify his perspective to figure out whether it is town or scum motivated?

I think Tf is a stronger scumread and i'd rather wagon with my town reads than with my confused read.

How is TF even a lead. Okay, he was lurking. That is pretty much the entire case on him. We had two people get replaced already. Why not get the mod to replace TF as well?

I won't quote 392 in its entirety, I generally hate quoting but sometimes, I feel it conveys a point. Other times, it is an annoying striped wall difficult to read. I'd suggest clicking the link to match my answers with.

Why I think TF is town? I don't know whether he is town. I just don't think we should lynch a lurker when a much stronger scum read appears. Cheery has posted. His defence is inadequate. I pointed out the flaws in his defence. Most of it just read like trying to appease me while keeping him vote on me which is based on poor reasoning.

"

If you think AP is town, and you think rofl is bussing his buddy, then what is the flaw in going with tf?

"

That is not the only possibility. Rofl could be scum pushing a town lynch. Rofl could be town and wrong about TF. Bottomline, I think it is more likely to hit scum by lynching Cheerydog or Venmar as opposed to TF. I don't necessarily think he is town, I just would rather lynch two other people. Since a whole bunch of people are coming out of the woodworks to say Venmar is town with no reasoning, I see Cheery as the only practical lynch out of my two suspects.

You've played a lot of games with me and you know when they give up like that, they are scum.

Cheery Dog isn't as surefire. Sure, he seems scummy, but a lot of your case on him is wifom, and he tried, which means that he possibly believes what he's saying.

Where has he given up? He barely posted anything. He is flaking out of this game, basically.

How is my case "WIFOM?" WIFOM is basically infinite reverse psychology. It is when a player says "If I were scum, I wouldn't do that." But then they would do it precisely so they can say that statement. But could they really be town? And so on and so forth. What about my case implied this? Almost all parts of it were concrete facts, catching Cheery is his lies and his behavior betraying his knowledge that I am town and his weak reasoning for voting me.

Pedits later.

[rapidcanyon]

This post should go before my previous one. I already typed it out but forgot to post. I don't know if the mod can correct it or not but this one goes on top.

Okay, I was waiting for Eidolon to post her responses but I thought it was much better to just get it all out and lay my cards on the table.

So, firstly I think Eidolon is town. The intensity of her going after me and her general annoyance seems like frustrated town to me unless she is faking it which would be borderline malicious if she was scum. I haven't ever seen her this annoyed when scum and is usually a lot more sneaky and playful about everything. Although, her non-responses don't add up.

So, Eidolon, first off, if I annoyed you, I am sorry. Regardless of your affiliation, that wasn't nice. I considered just replacing out (and I will still do so if you want me to) but realized that the mod already needed two replacements who just came in. Every game we play together, I find it fun and you are one of the most fun players on this site. You don't seem to find it fun to play with me - at least this game. Maybe because I always accuse you of being scum. But the accusation is always meant in-game and isn't supposed to be anything about your character or anything similar.

You said that I was bullying you in the game. That was never my intention. All I was doing was accusing you of being scum. It had nothing to do with you as a person and everything to do with what I think is your affiliation in a particular game and I am sorry if it came off in a way I didn't expect. It was somewhat shocking to hear since I always thought you liked playing with me just as much as I like playing with you. Especially after we went after each other in the Chosen mafia game but turned around to lynch scum at the end. Also, to be entirely fair to me, you suspect me just as much as I suspect you, if not more in each game we play.

Unvote: Eidolon

Vote: Cheerdog

Anyways, I'll go through your posts one by one.

i see some problems in rc's case after reading it more carefully though. i'm still leaning town on him and scum on cheery though, mainly due to cheerys reactions. i don't see rc bussing cheery at this point.

What are the problems that you see. If there are problems, why are you still leaning scum on Cheerydog? If you are still leaning scum on him, makes sense to vote him, right?

[rapidcanyon]

Wait I thought I was your biggest scumread, seeing as you made this big case on me.

Pretty clear case of someone pretending not to understand something that is relatively clear: As I have repeated over and over and over, Rofl is my scumread based on behavior pending confirmation. We'll wait for him to confirm himself next Day. I'll go from there based on Rofl.

I mean your entire block of responses have been scummy and anti-town. You ask questions that have already been answered. I am about 99% convinced you are scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Advice to Piggy - READ. If you don't want to read, there is no reason to play this game. People put effort into the game in order to convince town to lynch the people they think are scum.

You are seriously doing a disservice to the mod and the players by voting off of stuff that you don't read.

You agree with me that TF is a bad lynch and yet you vote me? What do you think I've been trying to do for the last 10 pages? I have been trying to get people to lay off of TF and vote Cheery. So, to clarify, your theory is that I am scum defending TF to get towncred in case he flips town? It is not outside the realm of possibility but if I were scum, I wouldn't so forcefully try to get the votes off of TF to the point where my best friend in the game flips out at me and accuses me of bullying.

Your analysis on Venmar - you are basically regurgitating what Angry and Eidolon said about him. No reasoning provided.

Also, I wasn't the one leading the wagon away from Venmar. I am down for lynching him. You basically agree with my scumreads and you vote me. So, yeah, please read in detail who I was suspecting and whose wagons I was pushing.

You posted a bunch of complete fluff regarding my case against Cheery. This is complete fluff.

"

Now rapidcanyon and Cheery Dog... page 11 and 12... wtf guys, seriously. I couldn't stop laughing while I was reading that. I have to very much agree with Cheery Dog on the whole thing. His responses are almost word for word what I was saying in my head. Now I have seen arguments like that before and they're almost always town vs. town... except rc just takes the cake, with the cherry, and the whip cream for doing a complete personality switch. I had rc as my top town read, until page 11. Now, I know scum aren't typically that obvious but... obvious scum is obvious! No townie in their right mind makes a post like 334, and then pushes it beyond all belief. He is flailing like a magicarp... using flail. It is very sad to watch as my best town read becomes be number 1 scum read, but that's the way the cookie crumbles

."

Is that something you expect to make sense? You ignored the whole case and post a bunch of absolute fluff, and agree with me regarding TF, and vote me. Do you have any inclination of moving this Day forward at all?

And then you just cheer Rofl on, buddying?

"

No town cares that much. It's just... they don't. Not these days, making a wall of a case like that is my #1 scum tell.

"

Um, do you play mafia. No. I can't begin to tell you what is wrong with that statement. Town tries to find scum and lynch them. That is how town plays this game. Town CARES about who is lynched. Would you have us randomly lynch players?

I really think the last scum-slot could be you if Rofl proves his role. Venmar, Cheery, you.

Lol, Piggy's post was worse than Cheery's. She takes everything that is townish and makes it seem scummish. Her reads have no jusitification at all and at this point, she is just trying to protect Cheery.

Pedit: Based on the fact that Piggy outed herself as scum, I am thinking Rofl has a way of proving himself.

360 turn on Eidolon, I explained it (do you always ask questions that are already answered?). She was way, way, WAY too pissed off to be scum. I know her meta. At some point, it becomes really obvious when someone is town. They do stuff that scum wouldn't. Like what Eidolon did in her last few posts.

[rapidcanyon]

Anyways she dislikes the ToonFighter lynch very much but votes the ONLY player in the game fighting against it. LOL.

Anyways, players I am willing to lynch: Cheery, Piggy, Venmar. Angry is obviously town. Rofl will probably prove himself - based on Piggy's post and Rofl's insistence that he can prove his role, I am leaning towards the latter. Eidolon = town, explained why; Blastoide and NumberQ have to be town by POE. So, I think the scumteam is piggy, cheery, and venmar in that order.

[rapidcanyon]

Of course you find someone else that attacks you to be scum.

Of course you ignore my reasoning and make baseless accusations. Did you seriously just gloss through the entire post where I accused your buddy and came with that sentence as your conclusion. I actually think her responses are even scummier than yours.

[rapidcanyon]

Seriously though "townies don't care about who is lynched. What is she on... really?" That takes the cake for the scummiest statement I've seen.

So, cheery, do you agree with Piggy's analysis or not?

[rapidcanyon]

Are you just dense? Oh, wait, you are not. You are scum pretending to be dense.

Answer this: Do you agree with Pig's analysis or not?

[rapidcanyon]

Explain more about how much you agree with her. Do you disagree on any parts of her post?

[rapidcanyon]

It is not everyone that suspected me but the reasons they gave for that suspicion. Cheery and Piggy gave poor reasoning. Venmar didn't really suspect me. Also, I would imagine scum would want to lynch a PR to get me out of the way so their kill goes through on whoever they want. So, at least some of the people going after me have to be scum. Maybe I wouldn't be so suspicious if I was a VT. Cheery's and Piggy's posts take the cake. Angry for instance initially suspected me and I suspected him but it couldn't be more obvious he was town based on later posts. I thought Eidolon was suspicious but her last few posts aren't scum. There is no way scum would be THAT mad just because I was onto them. Blastoide and numberQ aren't posting anything at all, neither is TF. So, I have it narrowed down to Venmar, Cheery, and Piggy.

I am not convinced on TF-scum. Nobody gives proper reasoning beyond that he is lurking or given up despite me asking repeatedly (to everyone) to give a decent case for why he is scum over Cheerydog. so I am pushing wagons on my scumreads. It is plenty of time before deadline hits so there is time. Piggy's post was just... bad. That is another potential wagon that we might lose if we go for TF.

[rapidcanyon]

The reason I ask Cheery's opinion on Piggy's post is that I wanted to see if he disagreed with any part of it. This would indicate either a scumteam or Cheerytown/Piggyscum. If he had agreed with all of it, I would be more inclined to go with Cheeryscum and piggytown.

Anyways, it is the first option so I think Piggy is the most suspicious followed by Cheery followed by Venmar.

[rapidcanyon]

So, compare your case with my case on Cheery. It kinda fails to stand up.

[rapidcanyon]

I did add stuff to the case a post or two after I made it. So.. you started lying again.

[rapidcanyon]

I am still convinced you are scum and Piggy is your mate. I'd lynch either.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Rofl, I can say the same for you about your inflated sense of self-worth. When I expect people to follow my reasoning, I explain in detail and point out why a person is scum. I don't pop in a couple of random lines and say that that is convincing. W/e, it seems you made up your mind. At this point, I am primarily trying to convince Angry, Eidolon, Blastoide, NumberQ, and the other replacement to lynch Cheerydog. 4 more to lynch out of those 5. Angry and Eidolon are suspicious of Cheery as well. Blastoide and NumberQ have barely posted, so still waiting for them to log on.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, if Cheery is making blanket statements, we can always lynch him. We don't have to go with a lurker.

[rapidcanyon]

Lol, the fact that you assume I am trying to policy lynch you shows that you are disregarding the fact that I think you are scum. Scum often try to play off the pressure on them.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Angry, regarding Eidolon, I was talking about how she was frustrated. I honestly don't think scum would do that. Bullet points about why Rofl is scum? I want to wait to see how he can confirm himself. Why are we worrying about Rofl, I think we all pretty much agreed that we are not lynching him and I want to see how his "confirmation" pans out. Are you sure you are talking about Rofl or someone else?

Post 409 by Piggy - even worse than Cheery's posts.

Anyways, if you think piggy is scum, I am okay with lynching her. Okay with lynching Cheery as well.

Although I am pretty annoyed at TF right now.

Hi, I'm here. I promise I will post something with content tonight, but for now I'm busy. Kthx!

Also, @rofl: I won't fullclaim before you

Really? That's what you have to say about this day thread? Anyways, your content had better be good.

[rapidcanyon]

Explain?

[rapidcanyon]

- I'll post later regarding Rofl.
- I am annoyed at TF. I don't think he is scum but he isn't helping matters with posts like his. He is demanding to be mislynched.
- My acceptance of a Piggy wagon wasn't sudden. I called her out as scum the minute she made 409.

[rapidcanyon]

I believe I called out Piggy in 411 and 412.

[rapidcanyon]

Ugh, some people are annoying as hell. Don't lynch TF. I'll post more analysis in a 10 minutes or so.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, so to answer Angry's question about Rofl, I don't really think he is scum as much as I do about Piggy and Cheery. Essentially, the reason I thought he was scum is that he doesn't really seem to put any effort into the game. He seems too obsessed with TF and doesn't even consider that Cheery and Piggy could be scum. Anyways, HavingFitz, I think is town. I also don't agree with his vote on TF though. However, I would like TF to prove himself sooner or later. The next DP is pretty much as late as I would accept - if he lives.

Let's come to Eidolon's resonse.

Eidolon, you say that there are a couple of holes in my case. On balance though, Cheery and Piggy are both better leads and let me explain why:

You say your case against TF is in post 128 and 140.

Here's 128.

Toonfighter- quoted acomist & angrypidgeon. were you trying to imply that angrypidgeon's sarcasm was the truth? i find it odd that you post that, not vote him, and then end up voting acomist without analysis on the situation. slightly scummy.

Okay, he voted Acosmist without analysis. But haven't you seen players like that? As town, they will just bandwagon, lurk, post no analysis while the active players do all the scumhunting. Some active players post tons of analysis as mafia and some players can't do it even when town. My gut read on TF is that he can't post analysis even when town. There are plenty of players on DDO who simply pop up at opportune times and bandwagon. But that doesn't mean that they are scum, does it? We shouldn't just go for them instead of going for players who have been acting scummy with what they have posted.

Now, 140:

I linked it. It doesn't explain why TF is scummy. Let me know if I am missing anything.

So, that explains the odd behavior. He is just incapable of being active and catching scum. I don't think it is a scumtell. Scum wouldn't give up

that

easily. His behavior is just his behavior and I don't find it indicative of being scum. He implied that you were attacking him. I think that you are attacking me all the time as well. You just have a way of wording your suspicions which makes people you accuse think that you are attacking them. Not saying it is bad, but you put your opponent on the defensive whenever you accuse them.

He gave a cold claim. Why would scum do that, though? It is odd for scum and it is odd for town. So, you see why i am having trouble attaching scum motivation to TF?

You want to wait for his post? Okay.

You say you explained why Venmar is town, but you didn't. All you said was "his responses seem town." Nothing about his responses seemed town. Anyways, Venmar isn't getting lynched today, so I am going to focus on Cheerydog or Piggy. We can rehash this argument when Venmar is a likely lynch target.

You say Cheery is trying but not TF. But he seems more straightforward scummy than TF. I am having a hard time distinguishing from TF's natural playstyle. That argument applies to Cheery more.

Why are you not sure I am town. There is far more reason to believe I am town than Rofl for instance. Rofl posted nothing of substance, and the only reason I think he is town is through POE and the fact that he may confirm himself. He hasn't, yet. Angry is flexible and is agreeing with my reads on both Cheery and Piggy. So, no reason to lynch TF just because Rofl says so. He provided a shitty case which takes advantage of noobishness as opposed to real scumtells that way I have pointed out in my case.

449, you say Piggy is contradicting herself. Angry and I agree that Piggy is scum as well. There is another potential wagon. Why tunnel in on TF all day long based on nothing? I am cool with Cheery or Piggy, just not with TF. So, there are more options to consider.

I honestly don't know about the whole italics thing but if true, it could point at Rofl scum as opposed to Venmar scum. We can't place all our trust in one person hoping that he is town.

You pointed out two problems with my case which are mostly inconsequential. Okay, maybe he doesn't think that way. There is still the fact that his reasoning for voting me is mostly based on fluff and the fact that most of his posts were appeasing and betrayed that he thought I was town when he kept going on about how my playstyle was like DGB's.

You think Cheery or TF would be okay today. I think Cheery or Piggy would be okay today. At some point, let's compromise and vote for the person that we think is scum. It is not equivalent. I absolutely think Cheery is scum and think TF is town by POE. You think TF is scum and Cheery is likely scum. So, more suspicion overall on Cheery. Better compromise. Same with Angry. Angry, you think it is TF, Cheery, and Piggy. I think it is Cheery and Piggy. We are agreed on Cheery and Piggy. So, let's compromise on one of them. Cheery is a lynch that I believe at least 3 of us can get behind. Maybe a piggy lynch too.

Looking forward to your thoughts...

And Eidolon, thanks for taking the time to look through and answer questions.











Sure, a little odd behavior.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, I'll wait for ToonFighter to confirm this. This will prove Roflcopter as town. While I have seen mafia gunsmiths outside mafiascum, I highly doubt that they exist here.

So, what if you gave him a gun? We can make him shoot a target of our choice, right? If he shoots scum, he confirms himself.

How exactly does your gunsmith role work? Is it 1X? How many times can you give it? Can the person you gave it to shoot the same night or the next night?

[rapidcanyon]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Gunsmith

So, THAT'S a gunsmith. You are a cop with a guilty on TF essentially. Last post, epic fail.

Anyways,

Unvote Cheery

Vote Toonfighter

Pedit: Lol, I found the same link.

[rapidcanyon]

TF, if you really are a gunsmith, why did it take you 8 posts to vote ToonFighter? Nothing about your first 8 posts mentioned anything about him. In fact, your first vote, you voted me.

[rapidcanyon]

Edit

Rofl

, if you really are a gunsmith, why did it take you 8 posts to vote ToonFighter? Nothing about your first 8 posts mentioned anything about him. In fact, your first vote, you voted me.

[rapidcanyon]

Ah, okay. Makes sense. You didn't actually vote him immediately but you did ask a lot of questions about whether anyone suspects TF so it makes sense. While we can't discount the possibility of a planned bus, we don't really have to worry about unless you survive to LYLO.

So, I am thinking TF/Piggy/Cheery scum. Both Cheery and Piggy offered little analysis on the TF wagon and also voted me and not TF.

[rapidcanyon]

Why did you not claim a guilty on TF right when the Day started? As far as I know, SOP for a cop who gets a guilty is to claim the guilty on his first post. Unless mafiascum has a different SOP I am unaware of.

[rapidcanyon]

I think that is L-1. Rofl, Venmar, Eidolon, me and havigfitz all have their votes on ToonFighter. 6 to lynch.

[rapidcanyon]

What Venmar theory?

It COULD be Venmar but I am still thinking TF/Cheery/Piggy team. Based on Piggy's post, she actually strikes me as scummier than Cheery so it would be TF and Piggy with the last one being Cheery/Venmar/anybody else in that order.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Piggy, lol. Hammer TF. Regardless of his affiliation, you are next.

[rapidcanyon]

Actually, wait a minute. I re-checked the link. Gunsmith isn't a cop since some town roles show up as guilty to a gunsmith. I want to hear more opinions on this. I was under the impression that a gunsmith is a straight-up cop.

[rapidcanyon]

You don't get it.

If TF is town:
1) Rolf could be the scum rolecop
2) Rofl could be town gunsmith

- We lynch piggy, then Cheerydog, and worry about Rofl later

If TF is scum:
1) Rofl is near-confirmed town

We lynch Piggy and Cheery, the other two scum.

[rapidcanyon]

anyway someone hammer this scum, i'll see y'all in the dead thread

Well, they have to kill me first before they can get to you or else we have a guaranteed scum on our hands.

[rapidcanyon]

If TF is town, I am going after Cheery and Piggy on a straight collision course before worrying about Rofl.

If he is scum, going after cheery and piggy anyways but without worrying about Rofl.

[rapidcanyon]

If he is scum, I am not dumb enough to defend a fellow scum. I'd just bus them to get town-cred.

If he is town, I was right about him and I am betting I was right about Cheery and Piggy as well.

[rapidcanyon]

If he is scum, I am not dumb enough to defend a fellow scum. I'd just bus them to get town-cred.

wifom x1000 but i'm really not worried about it anymore because you'll be getting sorted out after i'm dead

And if TF flips town, I will be sorting you out after I am finished with Cheery and piggy.

[rapidcanyon]

If TF is a vig, then Cheery and Piggy are scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Ugh, so annoying. Wish everyone just lynched Cheerydog or Piggy.

Pedit: IF he is town, then I am pushing for Cheery's lynch. Come to think of it, we should have lynched Cheery. Rofl obviously isn't confirmed. He could be mafia rolecop. Let's see his flip, if he is guilty, Rofl is the obvious watch target. If TF is town, then no.

[rapidcanyon]

Updated list of claims

Dead Players

1) Acosmist ~ Zapp Brannigan (Vanilla Townie) - Lynched Day One - TOWN
2) DrippingGoofball ~ Turanga Leela (Vanilla Townie), Shot Night One - TOWN

Role Claims

1) roflcopter ~ scruffy - Gunsmith
2) rapidcanyon ~ Bender Bending Rodriguez - Watcher
3) Toon Fighter ~ Calculon, the acting robot - 1X Vig

Character Claims

4) AngryPidgeon ~ Hermes Conrad
5) Venmar ~ Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
6) Cheery Dog ~ John Zoidberg
7) Eidolon ~ Kif kroker
8) Blastoide ~ Philip J. Fry

No Claims

9) numberQ ~
10) PiggyGal15 (replaced Tangion) ~
11) havingfitz (replaced vijay) ~

Last 3 people need to character claim.

[rapidcanyon]

lol. If Calculon is a Vig, then Cheery is town.

Why?

[rapidcanyon]

The suspense is killing me. Let's just wait and see what he flips as.

[rapidcanyon]

Where did he claim scum? With the "gg game town?"

[rapidcanyon]

Oh, never mind. I completely misread it. I read it like "good luck town."

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolon, I was considering the possibilities of what we do if he is town and if he is scum. I didn't realize he said "good game town" meaning good game so far - for lynching him - because he is scum. So, basically he admitted to being scum. I initially read it like good luck town.

Anyways, we now know Rofl is confirmed. I think you and Angry are town. HavingFitz seems town too. The other two scum I think are Cheery and Piggy and if not them maybe Venmar. Null leaning town on Blastoide and NumberQ through POE.

[rapidcanyon]

He is not. He admitted to being scum.

[rapidcanyon]

I'll choose between Angry and Rofl to not give the mafia any leeway.

[rapidcanyon]

I watched Rofl.

I can confirm that Eidolon was visited. I won't say yet by who.

I think we should wait for Rofl's results and then lynch Cheery or Piggy.

[rapidcanyon]

Watched Eidolon night 1, watched Rofl night 2.

[rapidcanyon]

I think Rofl is town. Scum didn't kill him for fear of being watched and didn't kill me for hope of a mislynch. Or else, it could be because Rofl was off the mark (no offense). All he was doing was suspected AngryPidgeon. Cheery and Piggy wouldn't exactly fear Rofl.

[rapidcanyon]

Why did you lock the thread?

[rapidcanyon]

Anyways, just waiting on Rofl now. I'll check back later. Unless he has another guilty, I think we should pick up where we left off last night on Cheery and Piggy but let's hear from him first.

[rapidcanyon]

No one visited Rofl last night.

I don't want to say yet who visited Eidolon. If that person admits it, I'll confirm. If no one admits to visited her, I will out that person.

[rapidcanyon]

To catch scum in a lie.

[rapidcanyon]

It was Tangion.

[rapidcanyon]

who was replaced by Piggy.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, let's add more votes on Piggy then...

[rapidcanyon]

I don't buy it. This makes us assume that the scum killed no one. I'll hammer if we get one more vote.

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Rofl, I don't think it is Eidolon. Consider a vig claim who claims to have shot the only person who ended up dead. It is likely fake and mafia could have killed Blastoide. Who do you think the mafia targeted then?

[rapidcanyon]

If you only had two shots, why would you use one of them on a lurker?

[rapidcanyon]

Unless the "claimed vig" is lying.

[rapidcanyon]

^ You can start.

[rapidcanyon]

Yeah, I totally forgot you are conf town. You should claim last.

[rapidcanyon]

LOL, I am town.

[rapidcanyon]

Cheery is scum with Piggy. Why listen to dgb when dgb just led a mislynch?

The "doc" is fake.

[rapidcanyon]

well, i'm vanilla. wtf. role explosion.

piggy you said you don't know who tangion targeted night one. you should ask the mod and get that clarified asap. also, why did you vig kill blastoide over one of the people that town was suspecting?

either rapid is lying or its a piggy/cheery team and piggy blocked or rolecopped me night one.

rapid, why did you watch me night one?

I don't know.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, look I am not a watcher, but Piggy and Cheery are still scum. I am a vanilla townie. I said I was a watcher because I thought I was going to be mislynched. I hoped the mafia would nk me instead to save town from an additional mislynch.

I obviously didn't watch Eidolon or Rofl. I gambited to see what various people's reactions would be.

I think Piggy is scum goon or something. That explains why she was surprised by my claim.

Cheery is her buddy. He KNOWS that Piggy is telling the truth and I am lying. So, he fake-claims doc to try and get me lynched. Cheery and Piggy are the team.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolon, I thought TF was town and you were determined to disregard everything I say no matter what so I thought it was the only way to save him and lynch Cheery or Piggy who I thought were scum. I know it was a mistake. I shouldn't have tried to save TF at all. You were totally right about him and I was wrong. I thought I was going to be mislynched because I had a ton of votes on me and you, Rofl, Angry, Cheery all suspected me and Venmar did as well I think.

@ Angry, lol.

[rapidcanyon]

Rofl, I am not scum. Don't you see how Cheery's and Piggy's behaviors prove that they are scum?

There are 9 people left and I know scum are not me, Angry, and Rofl. That leaves Eidolon, Venmar, HavingFitz, and NumberQ.

I guess it is a possibility that one of Eido/Venmar/NumberQ are scum but I am leaning heavily towards Cheery and Piggy. The doc claim, I can somewhat buy in addition to the buddying that Piggy is doing with Cheery, it is possible Cheery is town - but Piggy is scum, I am certain of it. The other scum is probably between Eidolon, Venmar and NumberQ. I don't know who at this point.

[rapidcanyon]

Rofl's analysis actually makes sense. This means that Cheery and Piggy are town = epic fail on my part.

So, scum have to be two of Venmar, HF, Eidolon, or NumberFitz. Here are my suspicions is order: NumberQ, Venmar, Eidosmartscum, Fitz

[rapidcanyon]

How is someone who lynches a townie "obvtown." I don't follow the logic.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Rofl, what if she was scum and kept leading lynches on townies? Would she still be obvtown to you?

@ Angry, the simplest answer is that I am a vanilla townie and NumberQ and one of either Venmar or Eidosmartscum are scum. Or maybe HF.

[rapidcanyon]

What if Eidosmartscum is the mafia doc?

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolo, you don't really think I am scum, do you? My behavior so far in the game aligns perfectly with my town behavior. Also, do you really think that if I was scum, I would have lasted this long?

[rapidcanyon]

You probably won't listen to me now but come back and look at this post after I flip vanilla townie.

The certainty with which Eidosmartscum is saying that Venmar is town makes me believe he really is town. That leaves NumberQ and Eidosmartscum as scum. Vig should be on NumberQ obviously. Gunsmith should be on HF.

If HF flips town, then go after Eidosmartscum.

[rapidcanyon]

Eidolon, if you know something about Venmar, you should say so, now.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolon, HF asked to be replaced so lynching him is good because we are lynching a completely useless slot as opposed to me. You say, I am acting a little "out there", not sure what that means. Also, lynching NumberQ is a pretty good idea too seeing as he is lurking. I can prove I am town no matter what questions anyone has. You know me, and I played mafia for over a year. Do you really think I'd defend a goon so much? I defended him because I wanted to push a lynch on Cheery and it didn't make sense to me that everyone was pushing a lynch on TF.

I had 3 votes on me but also plenty of people FOSsing me. You said you ONLY believed me because of my claim. Was I wrong to claim?

Also, question for Eidolon, did anything negative happen to you last night?

Not that i am aware of. Let me ask the mod something first. I'd suggest NOT mentioning who targeted me.

Anyways, lmao, how do i ignore your questions? I. wasnt. online. for. the. last. 12. hours.

I had to go immediately after i answered you because i got a movie to watch w/ my bf. (the devil inside - decent horror movie. doesn't live up to my high expectations since watching paranormal activities and insidious)

Anyways. Here's why TF is scum: look at his reaction to pressure!!!! He didn't say ANYTHING except give his character claim. If you weren't suspicious of him before, doesn't that kind of ring a bell? I'm sorry but there is no way that that is town. It's someone who is mad he got bussed by a partner most likely and is not saying anymore to dodge being connected to someone else.

And here's why ROFL might be town: he softclaimed a confirmable role. Him "bussing" TF is dependent on TF flipping scum. Unless he flips, theres never a way to be 100% sure that he's scum. If TF flips, and his role doesn't come through, i'll look at him.

Now, tell me again why we should lynch ROFL over TF? How exactly am i playing stupid? Because I'm not following your every move? WTF? your moves are inherently flawed and you haven't showed me why rofl is scum. Your only reasoning has been "responses to the tf situation"

and then you go to say it might be AP... and then you say it's ME AND AP YET ARE STILL PUSHING A ROFL LYNCH. WTF??

You see how this doesn't line up.

I wouldn't believe you except for the claim.

I suppose if you can confirm who visited me (later on) it will be okay. But i don't see how bender is a watcher. do you have role justification?

[rapidcanyon]

You've somewhat matched your townmeta, but there were a few things that struck me as odd about yesterday, such as how you seemed to have given up at some point. You're certainly not a bad scum player and you've won scum games before so the whole "i would have been caught by now" is kind of a wtf type of thing to say?

And i don't recall ever seeing you fake claim as townie before.

I was once a rolekeeper and fake-claimed vengeful townie. I did it because I was accusing someone of being mafia DP1 (I think it was bluesteel), and people were voting for me. If I claimed an uncommon role - rolekeeper, I knew I would have been mislynched. So, I fake-claimed vengeful townie in order to scare them into not lynching me. And guess what, bluesteel back off - and he was mafia. And I later found out his role didn't exist in the game and we lynched him instead. Success with my fake-claim.

I won scum games before but never when you were town. Either you were scum with me or you weren't in the game. Not everybody can read me like a book. I won't deny that I can fool some people into thinking I am town. But never you. When did you *ever* think I was town when I was actually scum?

Come on, you know this doesn't feel right. My story matches up perfectly. At least ISO me before putting up your vote. If you look through everything and still think I am scum, I understand.

As to why I gave up, I explained this to you - it seemed like TF or me was going to get lynched. Not being mislynched is the most important thing in a mafia game as town isn't it?

[rapidcanyon]

@ Angry, think hypothetically. I know you keep saying that I am scum but when I flip town, who will you suspect?

[rapidcanyon]

Ya the only possible confounding factor is an RB still. I have been thinking that given last night the best mafia strat would be to RB RC and kill you if they have one.

And mislynch me next. After the TF debacle, killing me if they could avoid it is basically a waste of their kill since they could push a mislynch. I am fairly certain NumberQ is scum the way he hammered Acosmist and then popped up to say that me vs Cheery was town vs town and disappeared again. The other scum if not Piggy is likely between Eidolon, Venmar, and HF. I am thinking Venmar is town because Eido says he is town. 50/50 on Eido/HF for the last scum.

[rapidcanyon]

Ya the only possible confounding factor is an RB still. I have been thinking that given last night the best mafia strat would be to RB RC and kill you if they have one.

this would worry me if rc weren't acting so obviously like caught scum

I am not acting like "caught scum." You are convinced I am scum and whatever I say, you view it through your "RC is confscum" glasses and add scum motivation to whatever I do.

[rapidcanyon]

- I thought I would be mislynched if not that day, then the next day, and I wanted the mafia to waste a kill on me before that happenned. I didn't want the town to waste a mislynch one me.

- I didn't think TF was scum because the votes on him came too easily and he didn't do anything scummy enough to warrant such a quick wagon. Also, when Rofl kept saying to lynch TF, it struck me as very odd. Rofl initially gave no reasoning. He just said "do it." And everyone said "yeah, yeah, TF is totally scum." It seemed odd. It didn't feel right.

- POE points to me but also to NumberQ and HF. So, I am suggesting we lynch one of them.

- I am convinced by Rofl's analysis that neither Piggy nor Cheery are scum.

- I am not sure whether you are scum. I am 50/50 on it. I am TRYING to convince you hoping that you are town. If you scum, I never stood a chance anyways. But if you are town, I know I have a good chance of convincing you because you never mislynched me before when we were both town and you never let me get away when you were town and I scum. So, I am giving it a shot hoping you are town. Even if you mislynch me, I know it is my fault for fake-claiming and playing badly. I am just hoping you would figure it out. If you are scum, well, my defense is pointless, but I don't know that you are scum so it doesn't hurt to try.

[rapidcanyon]

What really disturbs me is you responded to Cheery's claim to say he is lying (implying that he must not have visited Rofl because you got neg results), but then quickly threw the watcher claim away shortly after and started calling him town.

I thought he was Piggy's buddy and he knew I was lying so he manufactured a doc claim to get me lynched and clear Piggy.

Even after he admitted to lying he was saying they are still scum.

wtf?

Yeah, until Rofl pointed out that the kill could have been on himself.

[rapidcanyon]

Why were you so certain that you would be mislynched with only 3 votes on you? And why were you so certain that TF was town?

I don't know why you defended him but you did.

Also, part of it was that I was pushing for Venmar/Cheery to be lynched at that point and you were pushing for TF and I didn't want to give in an admit I may have been wrong.

[rapidcanyon]

Why did you claim to target Rofl, knowing that a doctor must have also targeted him?

If I claimed to have targeted anyone else, the entire town would have been pushing to lynch me giving scum a free mislynch (I mean, consider NumberQ who has done nothing at all so far) and HF flaked out. I HAD to say I protected Rofl if I had any chance of not getting mislynched.

[rapidcanyon]

I didn't know for sure that there was a doc in the game or that anyone would visit Rofl. I just took a guess.

[rapidcanyon]

I think rbing me and killing Rofl makes sense. If I were scum, I would have assumed there was a doc and not killed Rofl. But if scum thought a watcher existed, then they would rb the watcher and go for Rofl. I basically got them to waste a kill.

And my fake-claim wasn't terrible considering I was only believed because of it.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, Eidolon, if you are town (which I am about 50% on, I don't know it but I hope so), trust your own reads. It is has been a month since this game started. Every time you were town and I was scum in games on DDO, you always FOS me within the first 2 days and get me lynched within the first 3. And those games last about 10 days max. There is no way I'd be able to fool you for this long. You know every move that I make as scum and catch me on it. I honestly cannot play to what you consider my "town-meta" as scum - and certainly not for a month.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Eidolon, I don't know which parts of my responses were ATE. It seems like a slippery slope where we could say anything is ATE. Also, according to POE, how does NumberQ get a pass? I am the only one defending myself. NumberQ said nothing. Despite that, you just said "nah, forget it, let's lynch RC but we'll wait for the others to check in." What weren't adding up? I explained to you 20 times why I gave up and voted TF. I also explained why I fake-claimed. You specifically said that you wouldn't believe me if it wasn't for the claim so how was it a mistake to fake-claim? If I claimed vanilla, you wouldn't have believed me anyways, right?

Pedit: What will be your reads when I flip town? Who will you suspect and will those reads change? Look, I know I am town, so at least make plans for both eventualities before the mod closes the thread. I would hate to see scum get away.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Venmar, looking at a cost-benefit analysis, lynching NumberQ is far more useful since he never contributed to town or helped in any way. I have posted a lot, helped town etc. Let's go with numberQ and if Rofl investigates me, we can have a useful townie who is cleared. In NumberQ's case, clearing him means NOTHING. So, better to give me the benefit of the doubt than him.

Don't you think it all adds up, though? My behavior was totally town as well and I have been posting and helping as much as I can.

[rapidcanyon]

Look, if I played badly, I am sorry. If you are going to lynch me anyways, at least make plans for what you are going to do when I flip town and don't base every single one of your reads on what is going to happen when I flip scum. Make plans for what to do when I flip town.

NumberQ should obviously be vig-killed.

Either Eidolon or HavingFitz should be investigated. Likely one of them is mafia although I don't know who it is. I am getting confusing reads on Eidolon and no read on HF.

I am going to put my vote on the most likely scum.

VOTE: NumberQ

[rapidcanyon]

Your previous post contained no questions except whether you should claim. I think it is a good idea for you to claim.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, Venmar is obviously town. I think you should have given the inventions to Angry though. Anyways, Eidolon and HF should have results for us. So, using those results, we could determine even more scum. You "personally" don't trust me? Sure, I kinda expected that.

Anyways, we need to hear from Eido and HF.

Pedit: Yeah, yeah, it is really obvious you are town, so please focus on who is likely scum. Hint: It isn't me.

[rapidcanyon]

Nobody has actually claimed an INVESTIGATIVE role besides Rofl. So, Rofl is obvious town as is Angry. The only protective role so far was doc so Cheery is clear as well. I totally believe Venmar's claim too unless scum have an inventor.

That leaves Piggy. The vig claim is somewhat dubious seeing as there never was a night in which there were two kills, it still matches up. So, 4 PR's and 6 vanilla townies make sense but I am pretty sure scum have a rolecop, roleblocker, and doctor to negate them.

If we lynch between me, NumberQ, Eidolon, and HF, we have 50% chance of hitting scum. We have this game in the bag. If I am lynched, NQ should obviously be vigged and one of Eido/HF be investigated although I am not sure if we can trust those results due to the scum doc. I am thinking NQ and HF for scum although Eido is also giving me some wierd vibes but we have it narrowed down to 2/3 people.

[rapidcanyon]

Also, if HF bailed out, his worth to the town is zero. He makes a better choice for a lynch.

[rapidcanyon]

What "information" do we need? We narrowed it down to 4 of us. Me, Eido, NQ, and HF.

What if I flip town? What information is that going to give you?

[rapidcanyon]

I wouldn't even bother defending myself since I know that even if I avoid a mislynch and get scum lynched instead, StinkyPig is going to vig me. I just don't completely trust that she has a vig power at all. At least, let her vig me and it'll confirm another townie, i.e. if there is a mafia nk as well as me getting killed, that eliminates any doubt as to Stinky's affiliation.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Angry, I haven't played a lot on mafiascum so I am not the best person for the question, but considering the game I did play, I'd say it is balanced if they have a doc that can protect them from kills and also appear innocent to investigation and if they have a piercing kill or something or a roleblocker.

I don't know - the only other option is that Cheery and Piggy are scum and are covering for each other. I really want to see Piggy kill me at least to confirm herself. That way, there will at least be some good to the town when I die.

They could be covering because if there isn't a doc and they killed Blastoide for fear of there being a watcher, Cheery covered for Piggy and said he protected Rofl, and Piggy claimed to vig Blastoide so she could fake-claim it.

That is a possibility although I am leaning toward NQ and HF. Eido is giving me a lot of confusing reads and I can't make up my mind. She seems really ambiguous - trying to ensure that I get lynched while at the same time, take towncred if I flip innocent. She also said she would take a look at my ISO although her latest responses were basically "yeah, leaning scum" or "he did townie things." But then again, she did a similar thing in Chosen mafia and we were both town. I just don't know.