That's all for the moment.
A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!
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In post 37, Minimum wrote:After how long you've been looking forward to this game, you're totally okay with dying on D1? Not going to argue with the meanies ganging up on you?
(Likewise for Benmage, except strike the meanies part.)
VOTE: Minimum
Why so worried?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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So why does Minimum not have more votes at this stage?
Minimum at 34 wrote: But since the ideal choose target should be both someone everyone wants dead and town, both a good policy lynch and also likely to make a good vig choice, the whole thing is something of a paradox.
Or alternately, just choose MagnaofIllusion.
Minimum at 43 wrote: It's because I'm terrified that if you're chosen today, you'll vig scum and weaken my team. Because I'm incapable of moving my own vote off you right now, so all I can do is discourage other people (such as yourself) from placing one.
Or, you know, because your self-vote is odd and I want to know your motivations behind placing it.
So I clearly am a ‘good’ choice per Minimum. That much is clear by his initial Choice of me and his further posting.
Yet when I actually agree with him that I’m a good choice and Chose myself suddenly he 180s and says “I need to discourage that”. Makes no sense. Furthermore the “I can’t move my Choice” explanation paired with the cheeky ‘scum would never answer that way’ response means they are a good vote for rope today. Because if they were really prevented from moving their Choice they NEVER would have dropped it in their first post.
@Minimum-
Looks at you … looks at my title …. looks back at you. Not sure what is rocket science in understanding why I Chose myself.
Now – I’d like you to detail what possible scum motivatioin I have in wanting to make sure I die Night 1. Go!
Preview Edit - Good vote Tammy. You can be Town."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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The whole “Is this or isn’t this Multiball” and resulting suspicion on multiple players on each side is really pretty bad. Odds are favorable that we are indeed in Multiball but making assumptions of scumminess based on those facts today (voting Feysal for a ‘slip’ for example) is at best bad play.
Cow is Town. Yay!
If for some reason people don’t see the wisdom of sending me I will happily send MOS as a policy Choice.
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@Plessie– Um is BBMolla playing this game? If so can you tell me who he is masquerading as?
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Benmage wrote: Im a little too drunk to post.... I blame faraday.. i wish mina wasnt scum.
And yet you aren’t voting for her …
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Regfan wrote: Didn't like MoI's self-choose either but that was a super minor thing.
Am I right in assuming your vote on Snow is more or less 100% based on Westros meta or some such thing?
Regfan wrote: They're a better choose vote than a vote vote. And while I may understand your reasoning of "I predict I'll die early anyway so I'll take the shot" it's not right; it's much better to be aiming at securing a suspect on that giving us what is essentially two lynches and shots at getting scum with a backup night shot if we're wrong.
Meh. Suffice it to say I think having an early death being meaningful is a better move than it not. But as I asked Minimum - what possible scum motivation do you see in self-Chosing. Because you said it gave me a slight scum read and the above is just ‘mechanics’ disagreement.
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Dol Edd wrote: In either case, I see killing off a suspicious person doing more good than harm. Choosing someone out of policy is pointless. Why no policy lynch the first day and have the suspicious person sent to kill Snow instead?
I disagree in that if we have to choose between giving a Policy lynch the power to kill anyone of their choice or a Scummy play said ability I’d 10 out of 10 times rather have the Policy lynch taking the shot. Ostensibly scummy players are more likely to be scum and scum has a 0% (barring cross-kills if this is Multiball) of killing a partner since they aren’t living to reap any Town cred from the shot (aka ***spreads arms wide***).
Dol Edd wrote: It fits with a scum who already knows there is another faction out there and carelessly said it as part of a discussion.
It also fits with Town drawing a pretty logical conclusion. Furthermore – Feysal is not careless regardless of alignment. Discuss how this impacts your read.
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Plums Yo wrote: Sheeping Cow some.
If you were sheeping Cow why didn’t you vote Minimum? I don’t see the point in sheeping only his Choice and not his normal vote.
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Stephan wrote: Benmage, Moi: Why are you selfcosing this is not a sane townmove (it is like selfvoting)?
I have reasons (that are pretty obv) why it is a good move to put the shot in my hands."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 150, Minimum wrote:Thinking you're a good choice doesn't mean expecting you to agree with me on that (and in fact I'm fairly sure you disagree with most of my reasoning).
I assuredly don't agree with your reasoning. That's really irrelevant to the discussion. Still waiting for that 'scum motivation' for self-Chosing you are to be providing ..."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 144, Plessiezarus wrote:Er. I am confused. Since he's on the player list and he's posted on the thread, I'm guessing that he is playing, yes?
Don't be confused. I'm on really good crack apparently ...."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 189, Minimum wrote:Bandwagonning, duh.
Bandwaggoning is tek.
Everyone should bandwagon Minimum until they eat rope FTW!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Plessie wrote: I was wondering why you have a scum read on Minimum? Obviously.
While on the subject – what is your read on Minimum and why is it that?
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Staeg wrote: Aha, so molla's town.
Oh really? Do elaborate on why.
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BBMolla wrote: @MoI: I can't read CES so he's town till LYLO.
I'd rather get obvious scum than probable scum personally.
Well generally your inability to actually play the game isn’t a good reason to say “Screw this, I’ll just ignore this slot till LYLO”. Although I do appreciate the assumption you are making about being alive till then … which is not a Town perspective I might add.
Why is Sala obv-scum? Explain it to me."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 210, Dolorous Edd wrote:Everyone can slip though.If he already read that there are other factions out there, and he got it stuck in his head, he could've managed to forget that not everyone knew that, and mentioned it as part of a discussion.
Well that's pretty stupid logic on your part in calling it a scum-tell given it is fully Null (Town can easily assume Multiball given the size of the game and Mod history).
Let's talk about the bolded though - why would you assume Feysal scum in Multiball would have read about other scum? No Eddard Stark game so far that I have played in that was Multiball has specifically mentioned it in the role PM. Your scum read is based on facts that Town shouldn't be considering. Did you just slip and indicate that your scum PM tells you it is Multiball? Jumping on others who mention Multiball when you are scum yourself is a scum-tell I have seen prove effective in the past [most recently WrathChild in Star Wars Mafia]."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Dol Edd wrote: I'm saying it's possible that in the scum PM it mentions other factions, esp flavor wise (ex, You are Dany, you wanna kill the Lannisters, but don't forget about your other threat Stannis too).
And I’m outright saying the odds that they are written that way in an Eddard Stark game is as close to zero as they get. I’ve been scum in all of the previous games. Two of which were multi-scum. The scum PMs made NO mention of the other factions directly.
My point to you was this – it looked very much like you are ‘inventing’ a reason to suspect Feysal for bringing up Multi-ball possibilities. And I’ve seen scum use the “they mentioned Multiball, they are scum” to attack Town in games here on-site.
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Stephan wrote:MoI beeing a PL, requires a reason, as far as I understand PL, not ringing truth.
To set the record straight Stephan – CES does not like my playstyle and thus I’m a viable Policylynch for him simply because I’m to ‘wordy’.
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BBMolla wrote:Because I'd definitely want to keep CES alive as scum.
ISO him.
1. So you ‘can’t’ read CES as Town but as scum you’d want him kept alive? You aren’t exactly giving me reasons to think you are Town bucko.
2. No, I didn’t ask why ‘I’ think or don’t think Sala is scum. I want to know whyyouthink he is scum. Explain.
BBMolla wrote: MoI this is stupid. If you're a three man scum team in a game this large, the most likely scenario is it's multi scum.
And yes I know this shit has been said like three times prior, but I need to point out just how silly what MoI said here is.
Nope. You need to read for comprehension BB. The point is that Dol Edd is inventing reasons to attack which indicates to me the odds are higher that he is indeed scum who knows / suspects (from team size) it is Multiball and thinks he has ‘caught’ other scum slipping.
--"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 233, hasdgfas wrote:hey Magna, if you were chosen and day ended right now, who would you shoot?
Minimum."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 235, hasdgfas wrote:Besides him, because he's in the lynch lead right now.
Sorry, you should have stipulated that in the first place. I honestly can't say for certain without an actual flip to work with. Gut says probably someone active-lurking (like Shadow1spc) or someone who should NOT make it to endgame like Sala or MOS since it is the first 24 hours of the thread.
Who would you shoot?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 247, Tyene Sand wrote:How sad that this thread would ignore redFF's scumminess. Minimum is a bad lynch and, moreover,we wouldn't want to ruin CES's record of not getting lynched, now would we?
Um, that's the stupidest reason I ever saw to justify not voting for a scummy player. I'd love to see your reasoning why they are a bad lynch because any person worth Choosing is frankly worth lynching."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 239, BBmolla wrote:MoI do you think I'm scum
Stop dodging and answer the question - why is Sala scum in your own words?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 254, Dolorous Edd wrote:How come you always manage to find a ridiculous reason to just throw shit my way?
Calling out your behavior is hardly a 'ridiculous' reason to suspect you. Fact stands that it is more likely for Town than scum to be the first to broach "Multiball" and more likely Scum to be the one who jumps on them for bringing up the possibility."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 261, Tyene Sand wrote:MoI: I was being facetious; picking up on tone in that sentence should not be that difficult. And I've explained why I think Choosing Minimum is far wiser than Lynching them. Please try to keep up.
I see your reasoning. I don't really say I agree as Minimum is by far the scummiest slot in thread and doesn't need access to the kill IMO. Please continue with the patented 'Tierce condescension'. It suits you!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 283, Minimum wrote:I genuinely am clueless as to how to respond to this level of wrongness in any terms but these. Mindbogglingly wrong.
Yes, act so outraged you can't elucide the reasons for your 'policy lynch'. That will be helpful
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@Those Choosing Minumum instead of voting- if you flipped to actively lynching instead of giving them the ability to kill we'd be at L-4. Frankly that's more productive than splitting between the two and there are less of you to flip at this point."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Last post of the Night - Minimum is bascially playing the "Ignore all the votes on me and reasons for them and they will go away as other people derp in thread". I'm not about to let that happen given their scumminess."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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@Anyone Choosing Minimum over voting her– please explain why you splitting the pressure on the slot in a way that is not Pro-Town.
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@BB– congratulations! Post 337 earns you a big fat helping of “BB can be shot or lynched whenever as he’s acting like a cheeky fuck”.
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Sword wrote: Of course Scum will not kill scum…but why wouldn’t you want to try and kill scum the first time? I don’t get it.
We are trying to kill scum the first time. It’s called Voting them for lynch. What don’t you get about that?
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Tyene wrote: MoI--why is the hydra suspect for jumping on Feysal's multiball mention while you are disregarding others who have done the same? Namely, me.
Well let’s see – your reason for calling Feysal scum is not that he called out Multiball but that he didn’t do it in a ‘Feysally fashion’ that indicates Town. It’s wrong but very different from Dol Edd who has possibly committed the “Jump on the first person to mention Multiball as possible / likely” tell that I’ve already explained. They also when presented with opinions that Feysal is not ‘sloppy’ regardless of alignment (and you know this to be true from Chrono Trigger Mafia in a Multiball environment) and run counter to their theory the response is “Whelp, I say it can happen anyway”.
Tyrene wrote: Frankly I think the way they are dismissing scumreads on themselves as ridiculous speaks of Town.
That’s a pretty weak reason since that sort of play is Null.
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Sala wrote: So MoI, why do you want to die? I don't see the scum motivation, no, but I don't see MoI's motivation to do so, what makes you think (if you are town) that you will hit scum?
I’ve already explained this to others and I’m not in the mood to repeat myself. Read my ISO and get back to me.
Sala wrote: But MoI...
I haven't done anything yet
What is this? You haven’t done anything yet to make yourself a player I don’t want to see in LYLO? What have you said about your LYLO record in the past?
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Minimum wrote: 2) MoI's self-Choose came out of nowhere.
Um, whut? You’ve been harping on the fact that game is barely open yet you want to suggest that my Choosing myself in my very first post ‘came out of nowhere’?
Minimum wrote: And you definitely get no town cred whatsoever by self-Choosing, and then immediately going, "You're scum for asking why I did it, because I'm obviously confirmed town for self-Choosing."
Well for someone who accuses me of ‘selective reading’ this is pretty interesting interpretation of my response to you. Please by all means link to ANY post I’ve made this game that indicates directly that I have claimed to be Confirmed Town.
Minimum wrote: your voting has been too safe (for example, sheeping MoI's vote on us in the same post that you choose MoI--the leading Choose wagon at the time--felt very dissonant)
Um, whut? You attack Sala’s ‘sheeping’ of my vote on you as Dissonant with Choosing me when he also could be reasonably expected to be sheeping my on my Choice also (since that is where it stood when he sheeped)? That’s just plain wrong logic right there.
You also make multiple references to being ‘sheepy’ in your reasoning why Sala is scum in Post 335. Are you stating sheepy behavior is more likely to come form scum?
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Lyanna wrote: Good! ^^^ And for anyone wondering a continued reason for why I'm getting a town read on Edd. Good luck moving into college Arthur!!!
Why don’t you explain how what you quoted in Post 333 should explain your Town-read on Dol Edd because I don’t see much in the way of alignment relevant information in the quoted post.
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Shadow1 wrote: We're not lynching Hydrina or choosing them today.
Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Because that’s the only way you making a “we” statement makes any sense or has any credibility."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 366, Tyene Sand wrote:From that logic, those votes should be in the Choosing, since that needs (at least, it should!) to be locked first.
No. What possibly makes you say that? Lynching is reserved for the most scummy person in thread. Not Voting them based on the fact that 'Choosing should lock first" is very poor play."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Dol Edd wrote: Does this make sens to anyone else, or all you really all that dense?
Note to self – the second head of Dol Edd is as charming as the first …
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Shadow1 wrote:Because scum buddies are going to white knight on day one, less than 24 hours in to said day.
Too much of this game is being taken too seriously too quickly.
Cow is correct – Shadow1 needs death.
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Sala wrote: I'm not sure how CES can compare between two different games.
Are you saying that comparing of two game (aka meta) isn’t valid?
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Tyene wrote:...has it occurred to you that Minimum aren't my strongest scumread and that you are not going to strongarm me into voting them if I don't think that's the best choice? Just a thought.
Yup. It has also occurred to me that Minimum is my top scum read and I’m going to advocate for the handling of them that is best for Town. Just a thought …
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Dol Edd wrote:Aww really, Well how bad was it effected? if just a little then you can blame my scummish nature, but if alot then maybe your scumdar is just broke?
Dol Edd wrote: Just ftr, sucking on Day1 is not a reason for you not being lynched.
Neither is having a meta of acting scummy.
So hydra or not … please explain why your slot is able to appeal to “their scummish nature” which implices a scummy meta but others can’t use that exact same reasoning in making reads."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 389, BBmolla wrote:You're giving me shit when you don't think I'm scum
Where did I ever say that? You aren't Town that's for sure. The fact that you couldn't actually provide a simple sentence or two on why Sala was scum (before you 180) certainly does bad for you.
Regardless you are a great policy lynch / Vig."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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@BBMolla– in regards to your – congratulations you’ve made a case that Sala is a terrible player. Which is not alignment related. Sala is the weakest player in this thread so that being the basis for your vote then isn’t very convincing. In fact that tone and snarkiness you are exhibiting upon being asked for your reasons actually puts you in my scum-pool. I’ve seen Town BBMolla be called out before. His responses were a world removed from what I’m seeing out of you (insult and undermine).
@Mina– perhaps if I feel motivated I’ll respond to your recent posts explaining your motivations in self-Choosing. No promises thought as your hydra’s combined opinion of me and my play doesn’t really matter much to me personally and I don’t think it will serve much use to others in thread.
Shadow1 is worth rope / Choosing simply for his play – active lurking with no scum-hunting followed up by MD style discussion when called out for being scummy.
I’d also consider a wagon on Bvoigt for Post 451 as it looks very much like the “Stall out commenting on anything of recent vintage to look active while not being held accountable for being up-to-speed” style posting scum love to use to active-lurk along. Nothing in that post is meaningful (he asks questions about comments on Page 1 which have long been settled, takes three positions that have been more or less long settled and convienently falls on the right side in each, and makes a throwaway fence-sit on a post of mine).
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Reg wrote: MoI and Cow, is your scum reads or desire for Shadow to die because you're confident in him being scum or because you think he's useless and a good policyish based lynch or shot because I just re-read everything of his and it actually comes across as very town (Though fairly sure MoI won't agree with the reasoning behind it), his lack of care about the image he was putting forward of himself in his earlier posts is a decent town-tell and matches his town meta whereas his play in Kdubs game where he was mafia was relatively different.
I’ve already elaborated but you are correct – I disagree with your reasons for reading him as Town. I honestly think if Cow and I hadn’t put his active lurking fluffery in the spotlight he’d have been happy to coast along under the radar (like MoS for example). Also on gut and past experience his play very much strikes me as Scum-Shadow.
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Minimum wrote: Overwhelmed by the pace.
I do not buy this excuse at all, especially coming from what I assume is CES. It’s frankly bullshit given his style of play.
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Sala wrote:I have been told that two games isn't enough to prove meta between two players.
And again, the point is, that CES and I haven't even played a full game together, just Lylo, so I don't think that is enough for CES to get suspicious.
Am I wrong?
Just let me say I am in a quandary because your statement here is in conflict with play I have seen from Sala in the past.
@Sala– do you have any completed games where you can demonstrate use of the “Town / Scum” list similar to the one you posted in Post 433?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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MOD – As usual I will be LA starting today at 4:45pm EDT until Monday morning for weekend family duties. Access will exist but be sporadic.
@Anyone questioning MoS’s play– yes, he always tries to be ‘Useless Eugene’ early in games regardless of alignment. He thinks it helps him seem ‘less threatening’ when he is Town and helps make sure he isn’t an ‘easy’ meta target.
@Dol Edd– Post 388 at the bottom of my post. And the question is for your slot. You are only one slot and Hydra or not one of you needs to explain that to me.
I also agree with Feysal in that as someone who doesn’t play at Westros I find all the “Westros meta” talk to be as useful as a wet paper-bag. From what I have gathered Westros plays on a short cycle very similar to the site I played on before coming here. I would not try to cross-meta significantly from that site to here given the large differences it site norms and playstyle differences due to the short timeframes for Days.
@Also– making the list for PlessieZar reminded me of something I wanted to say for future reference … if someone claims a somewhat non-standard Cop role in this game don’t immediately attack the absurdity of the role. I’m not going to elaborate on why just yet but do keep it in the back of your mind once I’ve prediciabely been Nightkilled early on.
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PlesZar wrote: Could somebody who played in AFFC perhaps make a list of who was scum for me? As far as I can tell, it's not been revealed on the game thread, which currently only goes up to page 60 / the start of day 3 (I assume because of the board crash a while back?).
Scum in AFFC Mafia were –
Zoraster (who was Mod-confirmed Treestump scum from Page 1)
MoI
Shadow1
Zdenek
Pine
Greenknight
Shadow was the only scum to get lynched when I faked a Cop guilty on him.
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Sala wrote: @MoI: Umm, no, not unfinished. I do have a certain game you should be very familiar of where I did use the list.
Why does this matter?
Because I’ve noticed a tendancy for newer / weaker scum players to try to mimic the beheaviors of stronger Town (or Town perceived) players as a manner of buddying. It usually manifests itself in undertaking behaviors they don’t normally due.
As an example – Katsuki in Plum and Andrius’s Lord of the Rings Mafia suddenly started using “Town / Scum lists” (see Posts 121 and 188) out of the blue. He explains at 293 that it is his first time using it (and he ‘liked” it). Yet he’s never done it since. The reason why? He was wanting to subtly mimic stronger players (the DGB / Ellibereth hydra being the best example) also doing it.
I’ll have to review but I don’t recall you ever doing that on a consistent basis Day 1 in games before. It dinged my scumdar since some strong players (Benmage / Regfan) who are using lists here.
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Dol Edd wrote:(Also, everyone should reevaluate/recheck their read on Regfan. I got bad vibes from his ISO. I think because he came into the game strongly, people assumed right away he’s town [me included]. Seems like his posts of summaries/reads on a lot of players strike me of what I tend to do as scum (seeexample). OTOH, I’m not familiar with Regfan-meta too much, so I’m not sure if he tends to do this as town.)
Regfan makes summaries as both Town and scum so it’s completely Null as far as alignment goes for him to use them.
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Feysal wrote: As I was reading Tammy's #423 I was thinking of how a common scum symptom is difficulty in finding suspects.
Do you really think this is that viable a tell in a game you think is Multiball? Scum have every reason to scum-hunt in a Multiball environment. Personally I find it to be a “Not used to the noise” tell in Large games for players with no MS experience.
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In post 535, bvoigt wrote:Though I see why you thought I was fencesitting on your post, that wasn't my intention. I think it was a scummy post.
Good. Please elaborate on what was scummy specifically in terms of scum motivation."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Just popping in to say this thread needs more Minimum votes and Shadow1 choices ... the day is moving in a positive direction and we need to keep up the momentum.
Perhaps more content tonight if I have time."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 669, Plessiezarus wrote:I guess if enough people who've seen you play insist this fits your town meta I'll have to accept that I'm wrong, but I don't like admitting I'm wrong it's still bothering me for now.
Tierce if fully cognizant of her own meta (both Town and scum) therefore giving her a read based on "Town Tierce does this" or "Scum Tierce doesn't do this" is going to be completely useless. Don't listen to meta-reads from other players in that regard."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 680, Tyene Sand wrote:He's a particularly bickersome player and petty enough to enforce reasonless policy lynches.
You know ... for someone who seems to be against poisioning the play environement you seems to do a really good job of it yourself Tierce. But that aside here's a question -
Why is Minimum's calling me a good Choose as Policy lynch and not being willing to back up why not exactly what you are decrying above?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 690, Tyene Sand wrote:I have no idea what you're asking. Please translate this to English.
Don't you mean translate to smaller sentances for ease of reading?
Minimum has basically made it know I'm a completely acceptable Policy lynch (and I think CES has thrown in the VI tag if not mistaken) from Page 1. Yet I'm the 'bad guy' being attacked by Minimum for pushing a meaningless policy lynch on them. It's not and Mina's AtE-fest (which is of course a Null tell since when we hydra'ed as scum she totally laid down the "I'm sorry MoI is being mean to you Singer I understand your concerns, blah blah blah" sympathy angle) doesn't make my scum read on that slot waft away in a breeze like ephemeral smoke.
You don't seem to have batted at eye at their "reasonless policy" stance but mine you would seem to have some issue with.And that's totes hypocritical since you'd do the same to MOS.
That better? And putting insulting one-offs under strikes makes them totally ok with you I know."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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@DCL / StephanB– Don’t give my discussion with Tyene any more consideration than you already have. My purpose in asking Tierce those questions was to establish a baseline on her thought process. I really have not one iota of care whether Tierce or anyone else thinks I’m a good ‘policy lynch’ other than the innate humor it brings me. Ignore the whole discussion going forward please.
Amrun being all “Um, I need to catch-up” does not make my gut happy. Are you scum here Amrun?
Snowstorm unvoting Benmage at Post 617 without actually re-voting really is dinging my scumdar. The whole point of his “my Town read on Benmage nullified my vote” stance was that Benmage wasn’t in any lynch danger and thus his vote was no danger. So he has no reason to unvote in that post given he doesn’t have someplace he wants the vote to go.
Shadow’s latest I’ll shoot who I want is simply a very light Appeal To Fear for those who read either Cow or I as Town and should not be any reason to adjust Choosing him.
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Benmage wrote: I said this.. and is it not true?
Self-Choosing is not a Town-tell. It's not a scum-tell but it certainly isn't "TownTownTown" either.
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Sala wrote:Ok, I see where you are going with this, but I must ask, why must I be obvscum? What if I am just town trying to play with the big boys and failing either way he plays.
Where did I say you were obv-scum? If I thought you were I would be voting you. I list suspicions as I see them. You worry too much about me listing a possible scum play from your slot given I’m not pushing you to hang at the moment.
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@Minimum– I’ll keep this short …
In Post 643 were you seriously suggesting that my Post 635 was ‘turning up the rhetoric”?
Furthermore the whole “Oh my god Greenknight your sheeping is going to lead to me lynch” seems quite overblown since you were only have approximately half the votes necessary to actually lynch you when you made it.
Minimum wrote:
1) Minimum's policy-choosing you right out of the gate, as well as not explaining to people why we chose you, was a scumtell? You seem to keep implying it was.
2) Tierce is scummy, given that you felt the need to chime in and go, "Oh, don't listen to people telling you Tierce looks town--you should NEVER trust meta on her."
1. Nope. Your reaction to my Self-Choosing is highly suspect. None of the “Oh, is he playing the poor me card” and “maybe he has lost confidence in his play” reasons you would question my Self-Choose are frankly hogwash. My gut initial reaction I think nailed it … you two are worried that I would choose you somehow. And your “MoI regardless of alignment would push your lynch” line supports that initial feeling. If I was scum looking to generate “Town Pity Cred” with the Self-Choose then the correct decision is to Choose me. So no point in unchoosing so early if you wanted to pursue this line of thought. I can’t see the Mina half of your guys honestly as Town thinking Town MoI would waste the ‘Lightning’ on a vendetta (CES on the other hand is that self-absorbed) vig as opposed to playing to his Wincon. So your reaction was suspect and worth a vote.
2. No. Tierce’s “I can’t change my meta” is frankly hogwash. I didn’t catch her in Day 1 in Experimental Mafia because I ‘knew’ her meta (I had never played with her before). I caught her because her posts were scummy and showed scum intent. Knowing what I do now about how she tends plays as scum I'd say that game is very meta-contrapositive for her. She should be judged on her efforts in thread not on her history. Letting those unfamiliar with her know that leaning on meta with her is not a positive way to read her slot is Pro-Town.
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bvoigt wrote: I think the motivation was to "manufacture," if you will, a towntell. Again, there's no direct scum motivation to selfchoose. But the way that you pointed out that scum wouldn't want to do it as soon as someone questioned you makes me think that it was a move deliberately calculated to get towncred.
Well given that you (and several others) have had this same reaction I frankly find your “You did it to get Town-cred” when it has netted me none and I don’t really care anyway to be pretty ludicrous.
@Bvoigt– so did you stop ‘back-mining’ the thread because I called you out on it?
The irony of you attacking Sala for “going after easy mislynches” in Post 613 is not lost on me. Sala has the biggest VI rep in the game by far.
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Tyene wrote: Don't be a dick. You know I'm ESL and that snip was unwarranted. If I don't understand a sentence, there's no need to call me stupid.
Actually I didn’t. I’ve noticed there is a rash of “Being bitchy due to assuming people know everything about you when they don’t” going on here on MS. We probably need a site inoculation for whatever is causing it.
If you seriously have any thoughts that I have any sort of care whether you or CES or Mina or really anyone else considers me a policy lynch then you need to adjust your expectations."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Something about following up the thought that "Transparency is overrated" with "Reasons matter" is very, very funny. Reasons matter, unless people are asking Minimum for them ..."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 782, SnowStorm wrote:As for why I unvoted. Well, why wouldn't I? My stance was the same. I mean, my vote on Benmage was already null, I was just making it oficial, while generating a possible topic of conversation.
VOTE: Snowstorm. The level of crap being posted by yours truly has reached the point of no return.
Why wouldn't you? Well for starters you made such a strong point about it not mattering before. And now you've 180ed and taken the complete opposite stance ... that there is no reason not to do it. Guess what? There was no reason not to do it before either. Add in your "I'm making a topic for conversation" craptasm (hint ... actually scum-hunting makes for great conversation) and voila ... you get my vote.
Frankly given that too many players in the game is more worried about "Oh, what a bad move it would be to get rid of Minimum if they are Town" (which it wouldn't be but I digress) instead of actually lynching scum I can't say as I really care at this point. Too many players with no discernable backbone ...
If I live past Night 1 maybe I'll be motivated to begin caring again. Until then I'll probably prod-dodge out the dayso I don't have to see all the whining in thread."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 804, DCLXVI wrote:-I think MoI and shadow are also town. The selfvote from MoI and the sarcasm from shadow seem to show more of a town mindset, scum generally don't play that loosely. (at least from my experience)
-Not liking benmage much, mostly for his first two posts, he makes a silly RVS post and immediately follows it up by...chiding everyone for not taking the game seriously...
What's this? You like my Self-Vote while not liking Benmage's first two posts which also contain a post 1 Self-Vote?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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So five days or so to deadline and we still are getting vanity 1-off votes from people?
Read Snowstorm's ISO. Count actual scum-hunting posts or posts with opinions on who is scum. Vote."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 901, Dolorous Edd wrote:That doesn't actually mean he's scum though. It can pretty much mean he's overwhelmed, or is trying to figure things out and stuff.
It can also mean he's scum. I'm not relying on your Westros meta at all. And no, he's not trying to figure things out. You accomplish that by asking questions / pointing out behavior that is suspect. All he's doing is basically prod-dodging and responding to votes with "I disagree".
Frankly given that today's mechanic is being used as second lynch and the first wagon I supported stalled out (Miniscum) I'm not going to worry myself over lynching a player who has a equal chance of being scum or just useless Town."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 904, Dolorous Edd wrote:How is his play much different, than say Bvoigt, or Mockingjaye, or Shadow, or even Starbuck or something? Just because they might put an effort here and there to look like they are contributing? And how is this different than SS? At least SS seems genuine. Your reasoning can be extended to a number of players in this game, and it's not great reasoning for catching scum in any game in the first place.
Well frankly this list you provide makes me wonder.
Bvoigt and Shadow1 - I have scum reads on them (and if you bothered to check would see I am Choosing Shadow) so you are agreeing with me here.
Mockingjaye's posts actually have content and present opinions on who might be scum. That couldn't be more different than Snowstorm's posting. Trying to link a low volume high content poster like Mockingjaye to Snowstorm is terrible, frankly.
Starbuck's play is also terrible but I see signs of Town-Starbuck in there. In other words my Starbuck meta says Town.
Being 'genuine' is a crappy platitude that means absolutely nothing.
I'll wait for you to link me to posts by Snowstorm that say "Town" to you since everything in this post is "Why aren't you suspecting others (incorrectly I might add) for the same thing", aka the "Look over there" defense."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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UNVOTE: Snowstorm
He’s claimed Mason and given a name. I can actually see someone with a Mason role thinking they could derp around knowing they were confirmed Town. I have little flavor knowledge (outside what I have picked up from playing these games and a few episodes of the HBO series) so I will assume the Freys make sense as members of the Lannister Alliance.
Suffice it to say I’m not 100% accepting of the claim at this stage. Anyone who knows Eddard Stark games knows there should be a Neighborhood in this game (I alluded to this earlier) but that doesn’t outright make the claim invalid. I myself think knowing the name of his Mason partner / partners (flavor name specifically) would be helpful long term but don’t care enough to absolutely push on the issue.
VOTE: Bvoigt
My next most viable scum read.
– I don’t favor a Feysal choose currently so I need to consolidate on a viable alternate option among my scum reads.Choose: Minimum
Not really liking the immediate “Partners should claim” stance from either Benmage or Tierce. Both are experienced enough to know that only helps scum out this early. Later on if there are questions (or conflicting claims) it can be handled then.
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bvoigt wrote: Um, no, I simply got caught up.
So you felt the need to comment on Page 1 – 5 posts but more or less didn't comment on the 20ish pages afterwards to comment on recent happenings then?
bvoigt wrote: This looks to me like you're twisting his words. He mentioned that Benmage's choose was just RVS (was it? doesn't really matter, I guess). It makes sense to me that someone would discount an RVS self-choose but find a serious one townish.
Um, whut? You think Benmage just ‘randomly RVS’ chose himself? That’s a pretty weak stance to take. The rest of your argument is predicated on this and I don’t think Benmage has said “yeah, I RVSed myself” anywhere to support the premise.
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Dol Edd wrote:Ahahah. Told you Snow was town. Now we just wasted a claim
You do know who is in best position to make Town calls on non-scumhunting derps, right? That being said – why are you so certain it isn’t a fake-claim without any independant confirmation? Because scum have never claimed Masons before, right?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 1025, Shadow1psc wrote:Minimum has more posts than you and has posted each day this week?
The difference, of course, is the fact that the decline in general posting just happens to coincide with their NOT being the top wagon (and thus not needed Mina's patented AtE flailing).
I'll just ignore your trying to draw parallels between the two of us since you are scum and all."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 1089, Regfan wrote:I've seen her strategically lurk as scum before. Might not be the case right now but don't rule her out due to it.
She pretty much did in the recently finished Words with Scum game that Quilford ran (Mini Theme). Not sure if it is site-wide for her as of late or not but clearly it isn't anti-Scum meta for her."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 1114, Mastermind of Sin wrote:Ugh. Scared scum or overwhelmed townie?
He's replacing out of multiple games so I suspect it is not alignment relevant ..."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 1136, Pandora wrote:9) MagnaofIllusion -- This is weird. I like to think I can read MoI pretty well, but in my eyes he has such little presence this game that it's hard for me to discern his alignment at all.
Don't know what's more funny to me Quil ... the fact that you think you can read me well or the fact that you can't get any read off my posting this game despite thinking you can read me well.
Unchoose
Choose: Greenknight
I'd rather still have Feysal in the game than Greenknight all things being equal.
MOD – I will be LA starting at 4:45pm EDT today as usual from my family weekend duties til Tuesday morning (due to the Monday Holiday in America). I will have sporadic access but will not be as active as normal."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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That's he's a VI. I fully admit the players that poor are my read Kryptonite ...
If I didn't have scum reads on non-VI players like Minimum, Shadow1, bvoigt, etc I would not have hesitated to vote him if it came to it via policy.
Now that IecSapo has replaced Sala I'm confident the slot will be readable going forward."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 1178, BBmolla wrote:Yes. People are giving him shit for the same shit I've done this game.
The difference is people know you are always useless / scummy in every game. Like Katsuki.
Bvoigt actually can play the game in an effective manner."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 1214, Eddard Stark wrote:Feysal (1) - Starbuck
Shinori (1) - Staeg
Shadow1psc (3) - Lyanna Stark, Benmage, kortul
Jal (1) - DCLXVI
DCLXVI (2) - Regfan, Minimum
Not Voting (5): Mockingjaye, Plessiezrus, Jal, Feysal, Saporerint
Deadline is in 3 Days. Every single one of you is doing it wrong (or scum happy to No-Lynch) and needs to drive another wagon."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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In post 1244, Regfan wrote:Jal, from memory every game that Faraday has hosted has had full fake-claims and not just fake-names.
Quick note - this is not completely accurate. In those games other than AFFC (which was quasi-open about who was what role) scum were provided safe-names by Faraday and could request a full fake-claim (including flavor) at will."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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First things first ...
A Shadow lynch wagon? I'm so happy with that.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shadow
I'm not really a fan of the DCL choose wagon ... I'd much prefer Minimum. If it comes down to it I'll move to DCL over Feysal.
Unchoose
Choose: Minimum"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Shadow’s Post 1075 and Post 1079 show exactly why he needs rope as others have already gone over while I am LA.
Mockingjaye is Town. Any further attempts to wagon her for low activity will be met with violent roping.
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Regfan wrote: This is depressing. Minimum is not getting lynched or chosen despite majority of the room voicing a scum-read on the slot and instead weaker players are being pushed instead for reasons that sum up to them being weaker. I want Minimum in a noose before day 3 at absolute latest.
QFT
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Kortul wrote: I looked at the quotes in his signature, sighed and moved on. MoI, what do you know of this replacement?
Read Dark Side of the Moon Mafia. Seraphim’s play was terrible all the way around. Despite the fact I handed Town the identity of scum (and lynched 2 of them Day 1 and 2) and Zang’s being saved pre-LYLO by an unclaimed Governor was clearly an indication he needed to by lynched in LYLO Seraphim derped it up and lost the game for Town.
I stand by the line in his sig. The fact that he is proud of being so terrible makes my blood boil and he will be voted by me if his wagon EVER becomes viable. He’s in my “Policy Lynch always" pool even if I read him as Town since he is a danger to Town regardless of alignment.
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Minimum wrote:You realize there's a reason we're hydraing, right, MoI?
Bvoigtwagon seems to me mostly a matter of him being not that strong a player but not to the point where it looks like an easy lynch. His posting seems fine to me.
Another non-response in the first line. Yup there is a reason you are hydrating. What that reason is has absolutely no impact on whether you drew a scum-PM or not.
Minimum wrote: Meta is a big part of it. I've played with him and looked over the Kingdom Hearts game and he really did look town in both those games. There's also just a lack of scumhunting in his posts and recently he's simply gone completely inactive and basically not bothering to play. There are also a few statements that are clearly off (his original Feysalpost and "Hey!!! Someone understands me!!!! About time!!!") of a type that you'd expect Salascum to screw them up.
Sala is a VI. I’d love you to link your common games to show him looking Town. He was terrible in Kingdom Hearts. The stance (Mina propsed it in the Some VIs are readable … sell me on Sala Town post) that people should sell the two of you on Sala-Town is a mis-argument. I see a few players (Benmage) arguing that Sala is Town but I myself say I have a very hard time reading Sala and find the attention he draws for VI play suspect. You both needed to sell “Sala scum” not the other way around.
Frankly for someone who is giving bvoigt the “looks like an acceptable mislynch since he’s not an easy lynch” cover your push on Sala is a nice bit of Cognitive Dissonance.
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bvoigt wrote:2. What I'm saying is that DCL thought it was RVS. His exact words were "a silly RVS post."
And I think that’s not a valid explanation. Look at Post 16. The silly part to me is Benmage voting someone he says mathematically isn’t scum.
Let’s ask DCL …
@DCL– Why did you call Benmage’s RVS post silly specifically?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.- MagnaofIllusion
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Minimum wrote:It's very important to stay hydrated! More relevantly, our reasons for hydraing do matter for activity stuff which your accusation preceding that remark dealt with.
Oh look, another non-answer. Your answer is “Mina is busy” so that explains why Mina faded into the background. Yet Mina conveniently wasn’t busy when her “emotional obv-Town posting” was needed when you two were under fire. Maybe it’s just happenstance. I don’t see you as Town so I’m seeing it as quite possibly strategic.
Minimum wrote:Link (#26 is especially townie looking). And I did try to sell Salascum; and given the circumstances challenging people to sell us Salatown instead of lazily dismissing it as a push on a VI was not inappropriate.
I’m not seeing much difference in Sala’s play there personally. And the post you claim is obv-Town didn’t happen until after Day 1 there. So color me not impressed with the meta.
You are of course ignoring the fact that your sale of Sala-scum was poor and ignored for that reason.
Minimum wrote: Hmm? My position was and is that the bvoigtwagon looks like the result of him being a weaker player but not weak enough that he enjoys the "easy target" protection. Where is the dissonance?
Bvoigt isn’t a ‘weaker player’ as you put it. I’ve seen him play strongly and well as Town. We could also joust about what makes a player a ‘weaker player who isn’t weak enough to be called that’ but frankly I think it’s clear that’s crap."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.- MagnaofIllusion
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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In post 1341, Tyene Sand wrote:There is definitely a huge problem with my pile of townreads and I will have to review it during N1. In the meantime, I really have no idea what to do with this vote.
Good to know you fully expect to survive the Night ...
UNVOTE: Shadow1
VOTE: bvoigt
While Shadow's role is just as likely Scum as Town he's a dead man after that claim unless this is Singleball. Don't forget that if he survives long term even if he serves up a tasty bus at some point. After I threw him to the wolves in AFFC I'm sure he is capable of doing the same. Also Mina herself use that role (or a variation) in her Tiger Eaten Large Normal game so I would expect Faraday (a reviewer and back-up mod IIRC) to be certainly capable of swiping it."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.- MagnaofIllusion
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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In post 1346, Dolorous Edd wrote:Seriously, one thing that has been bothering me about MoI is the fact that he is throwing suspicion towards Mini without actually doing much to try and convince people. Like, every once in a while he would drop by and say something like “Everyone should vote Mini”, “This thread needs more Mini votes”, etc, without actually looking like he is believing in what he is saying. It just feels artificial.
Die in a fire. You seriously need to either actually read the game or shut the fuck up.
I made my case and pushed hard on Miniscum early on. I'm not going to waste my time railing for a lynch when we have a combination of stupid, lazy, and self-interested working against it.
Here's my question - who have you pushed in a non-artificial way? I've seen tons of "Oh, player Z is Town" crap out of you but absolutely no actual credible pushes on anyone."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.- MagnaofIllusion
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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@Dol Edd– in regards to Post 1352 … why no answer as to who you have pushed in a non-artificial way?
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SapIec wrote:MoI's "dead man" point doesn't work because we already have outed Masons.
Well given
1. The Masons are not actually confirmed
2. That the Masons only serve as a PoE danger as claimed
I think you are underestimating the timeframe they will likely live, especially given how non-dynamic and non-Town they have acted so far.
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Minimum wrote:We probably would have been better off just quicklynching the first person to claim VT and then waiting for all my town reads to crosskill each other. It's going to be the fifth straight scum win in a row. Yay!
And why the fuck am I even posting in this game?
Does anyone see this and get “OMG let’s fake some disgust” bleeding through like I am?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.- MagnaofIllusion
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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In post 1393, Shadow1psc wrote:itt: Everything I talked about at the beginning of the thread in regards to day one play is completely true and the only relevant thing anyone has done all day.
ITT: Shadow fails to understand that Mafia is not a game of "Day 1 is pointless""I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.- MagnaofIllusion
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- MagnaofIllusion
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"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.- MagnaofIllusion
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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- MagnaofIllusion
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