Mini 368: Town Of Suspicion - Game over!
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Unless lordy made a serious mistake in his phrasing of the townie PM, LML's argument with PJ (especially the reference to the invitational, if I understand it correctly) is either him dramatically trying to outguess the mod or borderline fishing. I'm not sure I'd willing using to use the argument between them as a basis for a lynch of either of them, but I will keep the implications of this argument in mind.
I'm not exactly how much PJ wants me to contribute to the discussion at the moment (which seems to be his claimed reason for continuing to vote me); the only issues for the moment are a bunch of frivolous votes on me, an MM self vote, and a debate about the townie PM between LML and PJ.
I wil say that CES and Rosso are basically doing their current schtick, which makes both of them poor imitations of Fritzler. (Neither should be mentioned in the same sentence as BJ or IS). In the absence of any scum tells by anybody else in the game I'd vote them, but for now their behavior is essentially a null tell.
MM is doing a Lloyd imitation. I have no idea why.
So, it's time for something different.unvote LML, vote Pookyand let's see what happens.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Well duh about Rosso's comment.
I still find PJ's comment about his vote on me interesting. The fact that he was willing to leave it on me doesn't bother me (if he had just said I wasn't at risk and he didn't feel like moving his vote, it wouldn't bother me).
What does bother me is that he felt like he had to justify keeping his vote on me (with a reason he now disavows about me not participating in the thread), and that PJ accused mith of asking PJ to unvote me, when mith didn't do that. (He asked for an explanation of the votes on me, but never requested that I was unvoted.)I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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OMGUS much? (There's no vote, but the attempt to pair me and mith on relatively sketchy evidence is certainly OMGUSy).
I feel like you are making mountains out of the molehill that is mith's first post on the topic (if you notice, he also included a generic appeal asking about the Thok votes, in addition to a specific appeal to you.) None of the other Thok voters felt the need to make the long complicated argument about their votes that you did (compare CES or Rosso's [not a voter, but essentially in the same position] responses to yours).
I also appreciate the snipping/editting of posts to make yourself look better.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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You left off the second paragraph of my post attacking you, which explained exactly what part of your defense of my vote I found strange. That was certainly not "extraneous information"; rather it clarifies my major concern, which was the that you tried to justify your vote as something more than the random vote it had appeared to be (with the "He hasn't contributed to the conversation" comment, which really looks like you were trying to accuse me of lurking on page 2 of a mafia game), and then removed that justification almost immediately.petroleumjelly wrote:Are you trying to bait me? I never edited any posts, and I only quoted sections which were relevant to the point (i.e. those concerning leaving my random vote on you). You were expecting a response/defense, and I delivered. I do make a habit of quoting extraneous information, because it makes longer than necessary.
As for the OMGUS thing, either you thought mith was trying to attack you, in which case your counterattack was OMGUS, or you are lying about your interpretation of mith's post.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Yes, that second paragraph, which explains that I'm not attacking you merely for defending your vote (and that I found one of your defenses of your vote quite reasonable). As my next paragraph then says, I'm attacking you for defending your vote on me by the specific comment that I hadn't contributed anything to the thread since you had voted me (in addition to the "Thok's not in danger, so why unvote" reason, which as the second paragraph, I can accept).petroleumjelly wrote:Or perhaps you meantthissecond paragraph?
... which does not need a response.Thok wrote:I still find PJ's comment about his vote on me interesting. The fact that he was willing to leave it on me doesn't bother me (if he had just said I wasn't at risk and he didn't feel like moving his vote, it wouldn't bother me).
By snipping it away, it very much makes it look like I'm attacking you for the "Thok's not in danger, so why unvote" reason, which I am most certainly not.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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My point is that I think one could shorthand PJ's comments about not unvoting me as
"There isn't any reason to unvote Thok, as he isn't in any danger. (And perhaps Thok should be in danger, since he hasn't proven he's not scum and there are some possible scum connections)."
The question is how much of the parenthetical comment can be read into PJ's original post (that is, how much does PJ try to suggest that I could be scum in that post and specifically how much does PJ try to suggest that I'm scum with mith), and how scummy one should interpret that part of PJ's post.
I will admit that I am trying to bait you a bit for reactions/clarification; but it bothers me that you took like three posts to actually get my point (which I thought was clear; maybe others will disagree).I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Rosso's basically doing the whole null tell thing; if nobody else is suspicious, then he might be worth looking at as scum, but I think there a lot of other things to discuss first. I'd like to hear more opinions from him, but then I'd like to hear more opinions from lots of people.
MM, Lloyd self-votes himself a lot early game, enough so that people have suggestedvote Lloydas a title for him. It can be a helpful technique if done correctly (in one newbie game I was in with Lloyd, he was town, selfvoted early day 1 and one could deduce scum from their reactions to the selfvote; scum attacked him for his selfvote, while town just sort of sat there and said "Huh?"; of course we didn't actually lynch the scum until days 2 and 3). However, the technique is a bit played out at the moment IMO.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Fair enough. (EOC=Eyebrow of Contrivance?) My comment was partially meant to include that I'd like to hear opinions from Seol/Tyfo (or alternatively see replacements for the above). I'd like to see opinions from CES also, but I'm not convinced that he's going to give any. In contrast, Rosso has at least said something.mith wrote:EOC: Thok, who thinks there's a lot left to discuss, but doesn't discuss much else other than the deadhorse Lloyd thing.
@CES-do you expect your current vote on me to accomplish anything? It's clear that the initial bandwagon on me, while it might not be dead, has currently stalled and I'd expect you to shift gears to a different wagon to keep the game moving.
@LML-you still here?I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Huh? I've never accused PJ of fishing. I've accused him of other things, but not fishing. (The only reference I've made to fishing is that LML was borderline fishing.) I've accused PJ of subtly attacking me while trying to justify not moving his random vote. I don't know how you get fishing out of that.M4yhem wrote:Thok-you seemed to be making an issue out of what I consider a non-issue; PJ didn’t seem like he was fishing at all to me.Fosfor pushing a bad point further.
By a null tell, I mean that something a specific player would do independent of his role alignment (i.e. something that's neither a townie or scum tell for that player).I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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I'd like you to clarify what you mean by the bolded comment, given that most of the "pressure" on me is based on originally contentless random votes.M4yhem wrote:Ameliaslay- I consider the main issues of the day to be things like the PJ + LML debate, the issue of whether or not self-voting is scummy, andthe fact that people are going after Thok.
Also, shouldn't the main issue of the day to be to figure out who is scum? And even if those are the main subissues, you could try to bring up new topics for discussion.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Mod-I am currently voting for CES, not Pooky
My reasons are the obvious ones (he hasn't posted much, he hasn't jumped from my bandwagon onto more active bandwagons, which his normal day 1 MO). It's also got a touch of bandwagoning in it; I'd like to see something start hapening today.M4yhem wrote:2. *Sigh* I know you know what I meant, but I'll play along anyway: "And what is the reason for your vote, Thok? Would you mind telling me?"
I also wanted to see how CES reacted to my vote (and see if he'd make any comment on it, or call it OMGUS, for example). But, you know if I have to explain all of these reasons, then I lose some of the effect of just making a vote and seeing CES's reactions. Not everything has to be a sledge hammer of "Why, why ,why???" You can slow play things and learn some info from seeing reactions.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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OK, I've sat down and read the thread, and hopefully I've caught up to what's going one.
Modany progress on LML/Tyfo replacements? It's ridiculous that we have a deadline when 1/6 of the players are in a permanent nonposting mood.
I agree that Mayh4m's jump on CES in response to my comments about my CES vote is weird, especially given that Mayh4m was suspicious of me early on. On the flip side, I do find Mayh4m's point about CES's comment coming out of the blue, and I'm not happy that CES is seemingly not following the thread at all (although he does seem to have been busy for a while and didn't post on scum for a while).
@PJ-I've decided I overstated/overpursued my case against you. A week makes a world of difference.
@Rosso-what do you expect you "I'd hammah" routine to actually do gamewise? (I'll grant that it may have some impact on whatever sort of reputation you seem to be looking for.)I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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@PJ-Tyfo has barely made any posts and clearly needs to be replaced. Rosso at least has made some posts, and I can tell what some of his opinions are (he believes mith and pooky are protown, for example). As for Rosso versus CES, Rosso has been, IMHO, more consistent and a touch more forthcoming with the opinions he does put out than CES. It's not much, but it is something.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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@crashtextdummie
@Rosso-I'm actually not trying to be insulting; rather I'm trying to get some idea for the motivation behind your recent play style. I apologize for misreading the purpose behind your playing and I somewhat sympathize with your busy schedule.lordy wrote:Deadline is suspended as for now, as there are no replacements willing to take up this game yet. Help me find some replacements, and stay active, lest I impose another deadline.
That said, I would appreciate it if you actually took the time to follow the thread. If you are protown, I feel like that you are missing a lot of info presence in thread. (As a side note, if you honestly feel that your time constraints prevent you from doing more in games, then I believe that you should consider cutting your game list down to 1 or 2 games. But that's your decision, not mine.)
That said, I think PJ choice of Rosso over CES strikes me as oppurtunistic, and is decent evidence for a PJ-CES pairing, IMHO. (In particular, I don't really believe the whole "a Rosso lynch gives more info than a CES" comment.)I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Not really in the mood for a full post now, (and I won't be posting again before Thursday at the earliest), but I've realized that PJ's done a lot of subtle OMGUSing-not so much vote retaliation, but he has been relatively consistent in replying to any comment of the form "PJ has done X" by going "X is a stupid thing to mention. Perhaps bringing up X means you are scum."
unvote, vote PJI replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Apologies, I really need to post more.
About PJ, I guess what I'm noticing is that he's been a lot less deliberate IMHO in replying to people and in making posts then he normally is as protown (I feel like a protown paragraph would have made a more complete analysis of various claimed 'mith-me' or 'CES-me' links, for example, as opposed to his 'I could see them being connected' which he only clarified when he was attacked for them.) I also don't find him as OMGUSy in other games as he's been in this one, and I feel like he's made a lot fewer arguments.
I guess it's mainly a style issue; PJ doesn't feel like a protown PJ, and I know enough about his style that I can get a feel for it. There exist games (which are unfortunately still active) where I believe both PJ and I are protown where we got to a point where the two of us were frequently simulposting with similar purpose/ideas; the stark contrast in our purposes seems off to me.
I also find it strange that he claims to "never have thought LML to be scum"; he's certainly has attacked/counterattacked LML on several occasions (once being the obvious exchange at the beginning of the game and once when he suggested LML was delibarately lurking).I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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@mith/pj-Feh,unvote PJ, vote Rosso. Not so much for he fact that he was scum in Pie C9 (I do honestly think he's running this strategy independent of alignment), but more for his reactions on being called out on this strategy. (Lots of stalling/accusing me and others of being insulting/disrespecting of him). (Specifically, I mention this after noting his willingness to discuss his strategy once Pie C9 is over).
(As an aside, I have always been taking his threats to hammer me seriously.)
@M4yham-I don't expect you to blindly believe my comments about PJ. On the other hand, it's easy for you to
1. Look at other games with PJ in them
2. Read PJ's own response, where he admits that my observation about his playstyle being different in this game is valid (he then argues that I am wrong in attributing differnt playstyle to PJscum).
@PJ-I'm not exactly happy with your defense, but I'm willing to look at Rosso for now.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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I honestly don't want to sit down and try to analyze what your argument with Relyte means, since I suspect there's a 1/3-1/4 chance that you're right about his alignment. I'm sort of at the point where I'd just want to wagon somebody, either hear a defense or a claim from them, assess that and go from there.M4yhem wrote:FosThok, you also posted in another game. What gives?I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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That's a weird way to interpret my comment. Given that we probably have 3-4 scum in the game, all my comment said was that I felt that following M4yhem was the equivalent of randomly flipping a die and wagonning based off of that.Relyte wrote:I already told you. You only pointed out the answers you disliked. The rest are fine. Mith and kind of Thok find me scummy, k. I don't care.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Huh? I can't see how you could get that interpretation out of M4yhem's post. The only comment he made about me was that he suggested that I bandwagon you, which if anything suggests that I hadn't been looking at you closely.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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If you've read the 5 year invitational, then you know that this quote is a ridiculously strong breadcrumb by LML that he's vanilla.LoudmouthLee wrote:Hint: This comment is reminicent of Antrax's comment Day 1 of the invitational. Antrax should have been lynched then, too. You weren't as explicit, though. So I may just be reading you way too deeply.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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PJ, let me phrase the issue simply.
Before Relyte claimed, you found his comments scummy, but realize that given LML's comments, Relyte must be townie or scum.
After Relyte claimed townie, you decided that his comments were "newbie meltdown" rather than scummy.
There are two separate issues: first is Relyte town or scum, and second what role is Relyte if he is protown. For the most, part those are independent issues, when LML has already breadcrumbed being vanilla.
I find it scummy that you switched from thinking that Relyte was scummy to a "town newbie meltdown" mostly based on Relyte's claiming vanilla town. I honestly don't believe that there was new info in Relyte's additional posts that would seriously cause a change in your assessment of those options.
With respect to the Five Year Invitational, there's also a L'layne post that I believe is relevant, which IMHO gave LML's vanilla crumbs in this game more relevance than usual. I am obviously not mentioning which post at the moment for specific reasons.
@Mith-I would be surprised if you didn't recognize the LML breadcrumb that we've mentioned. Is there a reason you chose to disregard it?I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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And this argument is supposed to make us believe you are protown? "I'm town, and you're idiots?" I expect better from you. God, this is starting to remind me of your arguments in Gambits II.petroleumjelly wrote:I will note a fun fact, however. I will have been playing on Mafia Scum for eleven months tomorrow, and to this day, I have never been lynched as Town in a forum game. Basically, if I'm lynched this game, I will devote my signature to this game, saying something along the lines of "best scum/dumbest town". Just a warning in advance.
PJ, what do you think of mith's reaction to my question to him?I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Really, it's all the backtracking to justify stuff, and all of the craplogic I fell you are giving out. It's also a case to observe that I do know how you respond to being attacked as scum. (Now that I think about it, I have seen you attacked when you were town, Ms Satanic Nun.)petroleumjelly wrote:Pfft. I mentioned explicitly that was a "fun fact" and not a "defense" of any sort, you can think what you want. This game has mostly been a waste of my time after LML abandoned it. And also, I am really missing how this game compares at all to Gambits II. Please elaborate.
You do realize that mith was theJust read mith's response, and I am not really concerned with his stance on the breadcrumb. I agree LML's breadcrumb was not 'strong' by any means, so I can easily imagine other players missing it (especially since mith never even played in that game). However, I am surprised he is going back to voting Relyte.mod(along with DP) of the five year invitational, and LML specifically discussed his day 1 roleclaim with him to check to see that he would avoid being modkilled.
Feh, I'm neutral about it. My general feeling is that M4yhem is way overaggressive in general, and his post reflects that. On the other hand, I agree with his attacks on you, and I agree with where his vote is.Thok, what do you think of M4yhem's last post (275)?I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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I think the sentiment is semireasonable. I don't think M4yhem is correct to blindly assume that his behaviour as scum is reflected in all players (And in Relyte is particular). On the other hand, from what I've seen, LML does prefer to make fancy claims to simple claims given the choice. (L'layne made a similar point in the Five Year Invitational; that's the post I mentioned before.)petroleumjelly wrote:Also, that's an interesting response to M4yhem's last post. Did nothing strike you about:
M4yhem wrote:I'm inclined to believe Relyte is town, because every time I've claimed as scum I've claimed a power role.
As I've said, I don't think blindly assuming that Relyte would behave in that way is good logic by M4yhem, but I find it consistent with what I know of M4yhem's play as town.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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I don't actually think you were that OMGUSery in Verbose II. (For example, you were suspcious of me early on Day 2 in that game for reaosns that had nothing to do with OMGUS, and you guys were relatively patient with Werebear.)petroleumjelly wrote:And, of course, there is also Verbose II, which you kindly pointed out, where I was OMGUSy not only for myself, but also for my two Mason partners. I think you are pulling your theory from your ass, to be frank, and I thought the same thing about you being "suspicious" of my refusal to unvote you during the random voting stage on Page 2.
I get the feeling you are looking for a challenge.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Uh yes I did see the same game as you did. The day that I brought up Satan in Verbose II, you nominated three people: Fritzler, me and LML. Fritzler had nothing to do with Satan. You had already expressed suspicions of me the previous day based off of the voting/nomination record, and probably would have nominated me independent of Satan. You did nominate and vote for LML partially based off of Satan, but LML also messed up badly enough that I starting bussing him, and in your nomination for LML you gave a 6 point argument to justify it, of which none of those points involved Satan (rather they pointed out places where LML had been sloppy and unobservant). So yeah there's not much OMGUS there.
On looking over the thread, you were more OMGUSy of Werebear than I thought. I'll give you that much. (Although frankly Werebear deserved it, and that's long term OMGUS, as opposed to the immediate reactions I'm seeing here.)I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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You do realize that part of the reason we're discussing other games is that part of my attack on PJ is that I feel he's behaving differently than his normal protown persona. Mentioning other games is a way to address these issues. This isn't an arguement between randomly programmed mafia playing robots 13 and 48, but between PJ and Thok, people with a nontrivial amount of history and general philosophy that can be analyzed and assessed.M4yhem wrote:All this talking about games I've never heard off is not very helpful. Can you concentrate on the actual game, please?
PJ, I never accused you of overreacting specifically. I just meant that you were using an arguement used by me as scum before, ie 'I always omgus' and I thought you might be covering yourself, in case you slip up later.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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My reason for specifically asking PJ (as opposed to including others) about your response is that I was (and am) trying to gauge the possibility of a mith/pj scum pairing. Both of you have been making comments of the form "Talking a lot and appearing to be hunting scum is a protown sign" (and using that to suggest that you find each other protown), while it strikes me that you've been ignoring the fact that one should also judge the quality of said posts (how wellfounded the arguments are, for example).mith wrote:Thok, you seemed awfully concerned with what pj thought about my response. What didyouthink about it?
Right, that'll do for tonight. Probably back to daily concise posts Wednesday, rather than infrequent longish ones.
As I've implied, I'm pretty sure that Relyte/LML is protown, and that a player who has seen LML's playstyle would come to a similar conclusion. So I find it suspicious that you chose to jump on Relyte as you did.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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Long post coming. (I'm about half way done with it, but I need to review about four of your games, and all of your posts in this game.)petroleumjelly wrote:Thok, could you please address the five (A-E) things I brought up against you in the post where I voted you? 'twould be appreciated.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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I haven't had as much time as I'd like to address PJ's points, and the original message I had was lost when my Safari crashed. Since these two points are quicker to address I'll post about them now, and do the other ones later.petroleumjelly wrote:A.)My refusal to unvote Thok during the random voting stage. There is absolutely no problem with this, and it is not scummy. Thok, however, kept pushing the issue, as if it were larger than it truly is.
B.)Thok then claimed I was "avoiding his questions", here:
When it should be pretty clear I wasThok wrote:I will admit that I am trying to bait you a bit for reactions/clarification; but it bothers me that you took like three posts to actually get my point (which I thought was clear; maybe others will disagree).tryingto answer his questions. This is not the first time I have been accused of "avoiding the question", and I sincerely urge you to read Gmk's posts against me in Most Mountainousest. Sometimes I address posts how I interpret them, and that can be different than what the author of the post intended.
A.
I have never attacked you for refusing to unvote me in the early stage.
Again, I have never attacked you for refusing to unvote me in the early stage.
I have specifically said multiple times that I wasn't attacking you for refusing to unvote me in the early stage.
What I have done, and what you have repeatedly refuse to understand, is accuse you of attacking me as a justification for a vote that you knew was random. I have said that if you just said "Thok's not in danger, so I don't need to unvote", I wouldn't be bothered by you. I am specifically suspicious of the specific fact that you then went on to suggest that I am scum.
B.
I'm suspicious becauseyoukeep misinterpreting my comments, even though I have specifically tried to clarify them to explain why I found them suspicious.
Also, gmk was town in Most Mountainous. So this might be a pro-town tell, but it can't be a basis for an attack on me.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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- Thok
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Thanks Kelly. Can we get prods/replacements on all of
CrashTextDummie
Machiavellian-Mafia
Ameliaslay
Cogito Ergo Sum
(Basically everybody who hasn't posted since the crash occured).
Ameliaslay had previously requested replacement, according to lordy.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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This would be much more convincing if you actually bothered to post when the Relyte wagon was happening.Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I thought we were lynching Relyte.
M4yhem's behavior is strange too; he jumps off the Relyte wagon when me/Pooky speak out against it (going so far as to ask mith "Don't you think the Relyte wagon is dead?") and then when the game gets moving again he hops back onto him, specifically picking a fight with Relyte in order to do so.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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While I agree with the second statement, I don't think the second statement is actually true. (I don't like how CES is pushing what IMHO is a bad bandwagon after showing no interest in it before, but he's never claimed it was his idea.)M4yhem wrote:CES also stands out, for being fairly useless. After being called out for not changing his vote on Thok, he changed to me, and now he's acting like the Relyte bandwagon was his idea.
PJ-do you still want me to respond to C, D, and E of your points? If you say so, I will, but I've decided during the break that there are better people to go after than you.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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I don't particularly think PJ's defense is "awesome". I've just reconsidered some things in the week long break caused by the crash and I've decided that it's more productive to chase other leads. Trying to interpret my actions and thoughts for me is not tech.M4yhem wrote:Thok/PJ- I think Mr. Jelly comes out of this debate looking better. Thok does seem in some ways to be 'testing the waters' in regards to PJ-lynching, but that could easily be the behaviour of a townie with a slight suspicion in his mind, who is intimidated by the sheer volume and awsomeness of PJ's defence.
I also don't think LML ever breadcrumbed anything, and I think this particular line of arguement is way overblown.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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QFTmith wrote:M4yhem, I did not say it was scummy. Don't put words in my mouth. I haven't decided whether I think it was scummy, that's why I want to look at it more closely.
M4yhem-Rosso isn't really an different from how he was in Kingmaker II, where he was executed as protown.
Also-tech is shorthand for "good technique" (it can also be refered to as savage tech, for example). Knowing internet lingo is savage tech.
From my reading of LML the point of his comment referencing the Invitational was that he believed this was an all vanilla game, and that he believed PJ to be fakeclaiming a nonvanilla role in an all vanilla game (which is exactly was Antrax did in that game). This reading is further supported by LML's comments to rosso accusing him of being bored with a townie role. This is where I believe his breadcrumb of townie was; had Relyte claimed anything but townie, I would have voted for him immediately.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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Can we get prods on everybody who hasn't posted since Monday? That would be PJ, Pooky, MM, and CES. (Rosso and Relyte just barely miss my wrath for the second).
I might consider asking for replacements for Pooky, MM, and CES also. (Yes, I know we've had too many replacements already.)I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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- Happy Scumday!
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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I'm not happy with them, but I also believe that they are posts that either a scum M4yhem or a protown M4yhem would make. If I was to support a lynch of somebody who's participating, I believe I'd vaguely prefer a mith lynch to a M4yhem lynch. Not exactly certain of that though.
I do say that I understand where M4yhem is coming from about a reread; it feels less than half the players are participating at times (me, m4yhem, PJ, mith, and relyte) and all that "participating" is really just people yelling at each other. (This is just impressions, for example al_ko has made a lot of posts, but hasn't left much of an impression on me. Others just haven't made many posts).
I do agree that M4yhem claiming "I haven't done anything scummy" is a worthless statement and also IMHO wrong (for example, given my feeling that Relyte is protown, I view M4yhem's attack on Relyte as potentially scummy).
CES has posted elsewhere but not here, which bugs me. Also Rosso needs to be prodded, IMHO. If necessary, prod Mari to tell him to post on scum.
That said,unvote CES-I find it interesting that nobody commented about my observtion that most of the CES votes before me were from lurkers, and that nobody's seemed concerned that lurker votes might lynch somebody.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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The reason he's been the consistent "default" lynch is because Pooky and MM have been voting him the entire day.petroleumjelly wrote:To respond to Thok, I have had a bad feeling about the CES lynch all day, I didn't need you to go reinforcing that idea. It seems like he has been the consistent 'default' lynch.
Curiously, you've said almost nothing about MM today.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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Bolding mine. Curious choice of words.M4yhem wrote:Now, how does everyone feel about no lynch? Since M-Mafia is dead, we already have the information a lynch would bring. I’m not sure I have the energy to scumhunt any more today, but I don’t want the game to end either.I think going to dienow would give us all a nice rest, as well as progressing the game and giving us a little more information to go on, in the form of scumkills and so forth.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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I know it's been a while and a couple downtimes since I made this post, but could you answer it PJ?Thok wrote:PJ-do you still want me to respond to C, D, and E of your points? If you say so, I will, but I've decided during the break that there are better people to go after than you.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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Abstractly I'm not against no lynch in this situation if the alternative is lynching somebody I believe has a high probability of being protown. I'm not convinced that is the case here. Certainly lynching scum is better than no lynch.M4yhem wrote:PJ & Thok- how doyoufeel about no lynch?
Moreover, coming from you at the time it did, the suggestion is a bit disingenuous; it clearly comes off as an attempt to save your own neck (especially when combined with the wagon against CES as an alternative to your wagon).
I'm trying to decide if your explanation of the text I bolded holds up. I really dislike the use of "maybe" in your explanation.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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@PJ-I've actually decided that I don't feel as strongly about those points as I did before, and I'm not convinced that having me post several walls of texts about 6 or seven past games by you that half the game hasn't read will be useful, especially since post-crash you didn't seem interested in pushing me to do something about those points until I brought the issue back up. If others feel it's worthwhile, I will write something, but I suspect that it would just distract from the game.
Is there a particular reason you feel like striking out at Pooky now, with a deadline in about four days? Moreover, you know that he's been lurking to some extent in other games as well.
@M4yhem-It's been two days since you've said you would claim. Stop stalling.
The OMGUS vote is curious too; while alko may not have given a great reason for his current vote, this isn't the first time in the game he's been suspicious of you and he gave reasons back then. In addition, the timing is strange; your immediate reaction to alko's vote/argument with you was to vote no lynch and you've only started to attack him after that fizzled out.
As for the bolded stuff, it seem to be asking me to think that it might be a particular type of Freudian slip that supports you being town. There are at least two other viable alternatives for your typo (1. Freudian slip supporting you being scum 2. You wrote something else when writing the post and didn't fully delete it). If you are only going to say that one of the scenarios may be correct, you're choosing to leave the door open for me to consider the other possibilities.
@Norinel-most of the original CES votes were for his behavior with respect to the early random bandwagon on me. MM and Pooky have gone into extreme lurkerdom and never removed those votes. I voted CES to try to get CES to say something and also for his whole out of the blue "I thought we were lynching Relyte" thing (he hadn't showed any interest in Relyte before, and I was and am arguing that Relyte is very likely protown). I removed it when I realized that all of the CES votes were unmoved lurker votes. I think M4yhem's the only other person to vote you/CES; I'll let him explain his vote.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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1. No. Not unless you give me good reason for me to, which I don't see.petroleumjelly wrote:Vote: Thok.
You slimy scum.
1.) Answer my questions from yesterday that you never got to.
2.) Why did you hammer M4yhem yesterday, when:
->a.A strict majority is not necessary for a lynch
->b.M4yhem hadjustrole-claimed
->c.You did not wait for any discussion about M4yhem's role-claim
Of further note, I would like to point out that Norinel (replacingCogito Ergo Sum) was town. Of note, I would like to know what CrashTextDummie thinks of me now. I have played with CES before, and I stated, I was very sure he was being used as a distraction by scum.
2. M4yhem partially counterclaimed my role, which is a variant roleblocker that has distinctly diifferent flavor than what he claimed. I will reveal that flavor if necessary, but I will not reveal night choices or the exact variant I have. I was quite surprised that he came up protown.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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I've explained already exactly why I think answering those questions is pointless; it won't add any new info to the thread and will clog it up with accusation between me and you about games that maybe three people in the thread have played.
Moreover, as you've mentioned it's been over a month; my thinking is significantly different from what it was when I made those accusations. I'm not sure I believe the full force of what I said then; if I've changed my mind, why should I bother to respond, especially since you've only seemed to care recently when I've brought it up.
And it's not like you can't respond to what I've already said or respond to my arguments about not responding to your questions.
A. Hey PJ, I don't care! [/yu-gi-oh unabridged]
B. Only two weeks (given that we've had significant crashes, and I can't really respond to the questions when I can't read any of the relevant threads I'd want to look at). This is a fair argument, but you've way overpressed it.
C. This is a repetition of point B, nd ignores the fact that you didn't respond to my initial comments about point A or B at all, nor did you further proceed to bring up the qestions until I asked you if you were interested in them.
D. Part of my delay was that we had quite a few crashes in the middle and that you didn't seem interested in hearing my responses when I specifically asked you about them.
E. That explains why you didn't bring it up between November 20-30. We weren't crashed between November 14-20 or Nov 30-Dec. 8. If you actually cared about those questions, you would have responded about them at some point, and certainly responded on Dec. 8 with something more then enthusiastic then your actual response.
F. M4yhem was/is an overaggressive player who really needs to sit back and learn what a scum tell is.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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al_kohaulec wrote:Thok, didn't you say yesterday that youwouldanswer the rest of PJ's questions? And now you're saying you don't see any reason to?
Inconsistency FTL.
If you want to discuss my inconsistancy between how I felt in October and how I felt at the end of November, feel free to attack me for it; I'd like to think I'm allowed to reassess my position when aThok in post 464 yesterday wrote wrote:@PJ-I've actually decided that I don't feel as strongly about those points as I did before, and I'm not convinced that having me post several walls of texts about 6 or seven past games by you that half the game hasn't read will be useful, especially since post-crash you didn't seem interested in pushing me to do something about those points until I brought the issue back up. If others feel it's worthwhile, I will write something, but I suspect that it would just distract from the game.monthhas passed.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.- Thok
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Did you miss the part where I said that my weird role specifically didn't match up with his weird role?
I am either an odd night or and even night roleblocker (it is clearly correct for me to hold back which one for confirmation reasons). My specific rolename is "alternate roleblocker". Tell me why I'd expect a "mystical roleblocker", who according to M4yhem has different mechanics from mine, to be in the game.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig. - Thok
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