Mini 368: Town Of Suspicion - Game over!

[lordy]

[Kelly Chen is the new moderator of this game.]

Status: Game over!

quick links:
Day 2
Day 3
Day 4

Welcome all to this the town of suspicion, where everything revolves around suspision of some people. Sounds familar?

Those still pointing fingers:

ChannelDelibird (replacing CrashTextDummie, Tyfo)
pablito (replacing Relyte, LoudmouthLee)
Mariyta (replacing petroleumjelly)
mith
LuckayLuck (replacing mikeburnfire, Rosso Carne)

Those who have went to meet their maker:

Machiavellian-Mafia -

vanilla townie

- modkilled Day 1
M4yhem (replacing Seol) -

limited roleblocker

- lynched Day 1
Norinel (replacing Cogito Ergo Sum) -

vanilla townie

- killed Night 1
al_kohaulec -

vanilla townie

- lynched Day 2
Thestatusquo (replacing Ameliaslay) -

cop

- killed Night 2
M4yhem II (replacing PookyTheMagicalBear) -

mafia goon

- lynched Day 3
Thok -

limited roleblocker

- killed Night 3

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rules

I am the moderator. Although some of you might be naughty and some of you might be nice, you still obey me. Else you get kicked out of this town in some stupid way that will leave everyone laughing at you. I mean it.

Shut up at night. There is a curfew, and even if i forget to lock this town at night, dont talk. Disobey and you will be committing hara-kiri faster than you can imagine.

Once you lie in bits, you are gone. Gone as in forever gone, but I allow a last message after your death as your epilogue. After that, you are supposed to be dead.

Bold

your

votes

,

unvotes

, and whatever you want me to take notice of. I ignore the redundant chatter/gossips/tales of ordinary men, and if you want me to take notice of something,

bold it

. However, even if i ignore most of the stupid banter you guys make, my police force doesn't, and disobeying the rules means that you would be fed to the lions, piece by piece.

Do not quote your role pms. Religion is not allowed here, and thus nobody may quote me or else I'll come after you. Im not soem kind of god who write religious books for you to recite day after day, I am a moderator. Ok?

This town is strictly isolated. No talking about this town outside of this town, unless you are some evil people that slip off outside at night. Even then, you cant even slip off in the day.

If you are not here, at least tell me, or post in the V/LA thread. All absenties that are uncounted for shall be replaced. I may send prod if I'm kind, but I would expect you to pick it up.

Thats all. Obey Or die. If you have any doubts, ask me.

Finally, thanks to Kelly Chen for helping me with the setup.

[lordy]

ALL ROLES ARE OUT.

There will be a no action night until everyone confirms. No night actions, only those that can discuss at night can discuss amongst themselves.

The townies pm would be made public now so as to avoid confusion. If you didn't get anything or if you have any queries, pm me.

You are a vanilla townie, and you were part of the town when the mafia invaded. Through suspicion, once a day you and the rest of the town decides on who do you think is a part of a mafia, and at dusk you guys will kill him. You are to shut up and sleep at night. You win when there is no more mafia members left in the town.

[lordy]

Welcome all. You All had a good night's sleep. Something no longer possible from today onwards. Good luck.

It's day 1, 12 people, 7 to lynch.

[Thok]

vote LML

. Clearly scum.

[al_kohaulec]

I did not have a good night's sleep.

FoS: whoever said that. Or were those just voices in my head?

Rosso? Who should we HAMMAH today?

[al_kohaulec]

Vote: Thok

Beat me to the first post.

[petroleumjelly]

Official "Random" Guess at the Scum Group: Thok, Machiavellian-Mafia, and mith

Vote: Thok

.

Of Note (Emphasis Mine)

You are a vanilla townie, and you were part of the town when

the mafia

invaded... You win when there is

no more mafia members

left in the town.

I'm guessing there is only group of scum (Mafia) in this game.

PPE: Dangit Alky, you took my vote. Guess it doesn't matter since Thok is scum anyways, though.

[mith]

Religion is not allowed here,

Bah! No The List™? This is an outrage!

Not many names I don't recognize, so that's good. Since LML prodded me into this game, I'll pick on him first:

LML, tell me in exactly 59 words why you are to be trusted.

And now, I shall go to bed.

[LoudmouthLee]

Religion is not allowed here,

Bah! No The List™? This is an outrage!

Not many names I don't recognize, so that's good. Since LML prodded me into this game, I'll pick on him first:

LML, tell me in exactly 59 words why you are to be trusted.

And now, I shall go to bed.

Well then, 59 words?

[start] In normal cases, I would tell you that I shouldn't be trusted. It would be almost a supreme farce for me to try to convince you otherwise. However, if you look at my play throughout this upcoming game, you will see that I am not only innocent, but a supreme benefit to this town. That makes us townsfolk happy. [/start]

Now, onto scumhunting.

I'm guessing there is only group of scum (Mafia) in this game.

Why should, at this juncture, especially one of your OPENING posts, should this matter? The only people who should WORRY about competing scum groups... well... are the scum.

It seems like you spent some time combing over that post to ascertain if there was another group besides yours, PJ.

On a less "tellish" scale, you piled a second vote on Thok very quickly. Quite strange for an early bandwagon.

This vote isn't so random.

Vote: PJ

[LoudmouthLee]

To further clarify...

My job is to hunt scum. Why should I worry about factions, especially in a mini? The comment seems out of place, and the more I read it, the more it bugs me.

[petroleumjelly]

Why should, at this juncture, especially one of your OPENING posts, should this matter? The only people who should WORRY about competing scum groups... well... are the scum.

Here is a question back at you: Why shouldn't I make observations that I see?

From the win condition we were given, I can surmise that we are only dealing with a single Mafia group.

Pointing this out nips speculation of Cults, Serial Killers, and opposing Mafia groups right in the bud. Such theories often mislead towns in the short run (and often the long run) in any case. I will be less inclined to believe we are dealing with multiple scum groups unless we have an indication later in the game that we are dealing with them (at which point I will be very displeased at the wording of the town win condition).

On a less "tellish" scale, you piled a second vote on Thok very quickly. Quite strange for an early bandwagon.

Quite strange for you not to notice that I was already writing my post before I placed the "second vote". I was in the process of previewing my post originally to make sure my quote tags and underlining emphasis were right, when I saw that Alky had already voted Thok. Since we're all big boys in this game, I found no reason to change my random vote simply because it happened to also be a second vote.

[LoudmouthLee]

Here is a question back at you: Why shouldn't I make observations that I see?

You normally should, however, If you're pro-town, your job is to hunt scum, cults, and serial killers. It doesnt matter how many there are. You then become somewhat hypocritical and say that your speculation is better (or more pertinent) than most:

Pointing this out nips speculation of Cults, Serial Killers, and opposing Mafia groups right in the bud. Such theories often mislead towns in the short run (and often the long run) in any case.

And what you just did is what? You proposed a theory about killing groups.

Quite strange for you not to notice that I was already writing my post before I placed the "second vote". I was in the process of previewing my post originally to make sure my quote tags and underlining emphasis were right, when I saw that Alky had already voted Thok. Since we're all big boys in this game, I found no reason to change my random vote simply because it happened to also be a second vote.

Fairly odd of you to spend most of your energy talking about the aside point.

Personally, I change random votes if there's a post while posting edit. I'm glad you didn't, though. It'll allow the town to sift through voting patterns.

Again, I find it odd that you have looked SO CLOSELY at the townie win condition. Reference:

(at which point I will be very displeased at the wording of the town win condition).

Maybe *I* am missing the boat here, but wasn't there a hard and fast rule...

"DON'T TRY AND OUTGUESS THE MOD?"

[petroleumjelly]

You then become somewhat hypocritical and say that your speculation is better (or more pertinent) than most:

Pointing this out nips speculation of Cults, Serial Killers, and opposing Mafia groups right in the bud. Such theories often mislead towns in the short run (and often the long run) in any case.

And what you just did is what? You proposed a theory about killing groups.

There are differences in my proposition than the other propositions I mentioned. Firstly, we know for a fact there is a Mafia group in this game. This is a Regular Mini game, where bastard-moddery is not allowable. Secondly, we have a

specific reason

to disbelieve multiple scum groups, and that comes from the wording of the town win condition, as well as the wording of the townie role PM.

Ny stance is not hypocritical, because my opinion is an educated guess as opposed to mere speculation (such as, "Hmm, we might be dealing with a Cult this game", from which much argument could ensue when there would be no outward factual basis for the claim). If somebody seriously believes that it is more likely that there are multiple scum groups in this game as opposed to a single scum group, I would be interested to know.

Again, I find it odd that you have looked SO CLOSELY at the townie win condition. Reference:

(at which point I will be very displeased at the wording of the town win condition).

Maybe *I* am missing the boat here, but wasn't there a hard and fast rule...

"DON'T TRY AND OUTGUESS THE MOD?"

The reason I looked "so closely" at the win condition is because it is equivalent to the win condition for my role. I already had figured there was only going to be one Mafia group in this game before the thread was ever opened.

I don't consider this "outguessing" the Mod since my "guess" relies on information the Mod has already given us. I am not guessing at what I "think the Mod would put into the game", nor am I speculating as to the "general balance of the game", but rather, I am using the limited information we have to put out a theory as to the scum groups (not just the "killing" groups).

Now let me ask you:

Do you agree or disagree that there is one scum group in this game (and that that scum group is a Mafia group)?

[petroleumjelly]

I feel I should probably clarify on this:

Here is a question back at you: Why shouldn't I make observations that I see?

You normally should, however, If you're pro-town, your job is to hunt scum, cults, and serial killers. It doesnt matter how many there are.

Whether or not I believe this game contains solely mafia, multiple mafias, mafia and cult(s), mafia and SK, or some combination of scum is irrelevant to scum-hunting at the moment. It is irrelevant because

it will not affect whether or not I think people are scum on Day One

.

If I think somebody is acting scummy [especially on Day One], I normally don't think along the lines of

Hmm, hmm, X seems pretty scummy to me. But wait! Does X seem like they're being

Cult Leader

-scummy or does X seem like they're being

Mafia

-scummy? Or maybe they're being more

Serial Killer

-scummy...

Because in the end, scummy is scummy. And on Day One, that's good enough for me. That said,

later

in games, it may be that there a strategical advantage for the town to eliminate one scum group over another (and thus a reason to try to determine whether or not it is more or less likely for somebody to belong to a particular group of scum). But for now, what I think of the scum groups will not affect my play today (

unless

, I suppose, we obtain information which leads me to believe there is a more imminent danger from a seperate scum(group) which was not indicated in the town winning condition).

The reason for speculating on scum groups is more to gain reactions from the other players (do they disagree, do they wholeheartedly agree, do they tentatively agree, do they fail to give an opinion, etc.) which can all be looked at later in the game, than it is meant to shape the way a town hunts scum on Day One. I am not afraid to say that I think there is one scum group in the game, and that that scum group is a Mafia group, and I have presented my reasons for thinking so. If you disagree with me, I would like to see your reasons, rather than using the standby response of "Don't try to outguess the Mod".

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vote: Thok

[LoudmouthLee]

The reason I looked "so closely" at the win condition is because it is equivalent to the win condition for my role. I already had figured there was only going to be one Mafia group in this game before the thread was ever opened.

I, personally, when I read my role, do NOT pay very close attention to the exact wording of my win condition. I find it unnecessary. I know that when I am a pro-town player, I need to exterminate the town of all bad forces.

It just seems that you know the win condition of the good (pro-town) player especially well. Like when you found out your role, you decided to really make sure you KNEW that (townie) PM by heart.

My question is deep rooted in the fact that, yes, you speculated about killing groups first (major scum tell IMHO), when pressed, you just "read your pro-town PM very carefully".

The reason for speculating on scum groups is more to gain reactions from the other players (do they disagree, do they wholeheartedly agree, do they tentatively agree, do they fail to give an opinion, etc.) which can all be looked at later in the game, than it is meant to shape the way a town hunts scum on Day One.

Logic? I call that flapdoodle.

It's GENERALLY used by the mafia to shape misconceptions about the town to the townsfolk. Remember, PJ, this is a game of limited info. Since we do have limited info, don't make assumptions that are no way clarafyable until the game is almost over.

And, of course, a massive

FoS: CES

for playing a third vote on Thok for no reason.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

I usually roll the dice here, but I decided otherwise:

vote: Machiavellian-Mafia.

Regarding the PJ/LML issue, I just think you shouldn't read too much into your role PM. You don't know if the mod spent hours to imbed clues about the setup in the role PMs or whether the mod just made the PMs on the fly, thus making generic statements in role PMs.

[Rosso Carne]

Rosso? Who should we HAMMAH today?

thok.

I'd hammah.

[petroleumjelly]

LML, please answer my question:

Do you agree or disagree that there is one scum group in this game (and that that scum group is a Mafia group)?

And also, your attack on me that "I seem to have looked at the townie PM

too closely

" is absurd. I am an experienced player: of

course

I pay attention to the wording of my role PM's. One of the things I am

known

for is paying attention to small details (for example, if I get a power role of any sort, I usually ask whoever is modding

at least

two questions to clarify my role). Simply because

you

don't seem to know the winning condition for the town (jab purposeful) does not mean that others should not, or that they are "suspicious" because they do.

In fact, for as much as you call

me

out for paying attention to small things:

Religion is not allowed here,

Bah! No The List™? This is an outrage!

Here, we have an example of mith

reading the rules carefully

. How is that any different than reading the Townie PM carefully?

I am not more suspicious of mith (although he is obviously scum, as indicated in the Proposed Scum Group) because he has

read the rules of the game

, nor should I be. I honestly fail to understand how you are "suspicious" of me because I happen to have read and contemplated the townie role PM, and drawn a reasonable conclusion based on that knowledge (which you have yet to even

dispute

).

The reason for speculating on scum groups is more to gain reactions from the other players (do they disagree, do they wholeheartedly agree, do they tentatively agree, do they fail to give an opinion, etc.) which can all be looked at later in the game, than it is meant to shape the way a town hunts scum on Day One.

Logic? I call that flapdoodle.

It's GENERALLY used by the mafia to shape misconceptions about the town to the townsfolk. Remember, PJ, this is a game of limited info. Since we do have limited info, don't make assumptions that are no way clarafyable until the game is almost over.

Yes, this

is

a game of limited info. However, the wording of the townie role PM gives the town

more

info so far as I can see; that being that there is only one scum group in the game, and that that scum group is Mafia.

If you

disagree

with me, speak now or forever hold your peace.

[LoudmouthLee]

If you disagree with me, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Until we go to night, I will respectfully say we do not have enough information to make that assumption.

I am not more suspicious of mith (although he is obviously scum, as indicated in the Proposed Scum Group) because he has read the rules of the game, nor should I be. I honestly fail to understand how you are "suspicious" of me because I happen to have read and contemplated the townie role PM, and drawn a reasonable conclusion based on that knowledge (which you have yet to even dispute).

I'm not going to say that I hadn't NOTED it, but what i'm saying is as follows:

1) The first person to generally specualte OUT LOUD about killing groups is generally scum.

2) By you stating it to everyone, even if you aren't scum, you give the scum info.

2a) Since this was a "no-talk-night", you could be easily just TELLING your scumpartners something that you ascertained by combing through the townie PM as per the front page.

My suspicions lie with what you said and how quick you said it.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

LML, could you stop having that silly argument and vote for Thok?

You're not being very productive.

[LoudmouthLee]

LML, could you stop having that silly argument and vote for Thok?

You're not being very productive.

And you're a wannabe IS.

[Ameliaslay]

I think that is very perceptive on PJ's part to have noticed that in the wording, but I think sometimes it may be more carelessness than a specific hint one way or the other. On the other hand, I do agree that its motive, to stop fruitless distracting speculation is very valid.

vote:Rosso Carne

[petroleumjelly]

I'll respond once more on the subject. All of these answers are obvious.

1) The first person to generally specualte OUT LOUD about killing groups is generally scum.

That "tell" does not apply to this game, then. You seriously can't expect a response to this. I point out what I see when I see it unless I find a reason not to.

2) By you stating it to everyone, even if you aren't scum, you give the scum info.

Who gets more info: scum or town? And do you seriously think the scum wouldn't have noticed the wording of the town role PM? In fact, it is possible that the wording of the

scum

role PM explicitly mentions that they only have to outkill the town. We don't know. The information I presented is nothing the scum couldn't have figured out on their own anyways. The level of play in this game

is

somewhat better than that of a potato, mind you.

2a) Since this was a "no-talk-night", you could be easily just TELLING your scumpartners something that you ascertained by combing through the townie PM as per the front page.

Did you screw that up

purposely?

Read the second post of the game again, LML:

There will be a no action night until everyone confirms. No night actions,

only those that can discuss at night can discuss amongst themselves.

I'm starting to think you threw that in there so we would subconsciously think you're town by going through the negative interpretation: namely, "LML says he didn't know that scum could nighttalk, therefore he must be town".

This

is why it's a

good thing

to read over the rules of games: to gain information to start off with. It is

very

relevant to games as to whether or not scum/masons/etc. are allowed to talk to each other before games begin, since they can strategize... whereas with night-talking disallowed, they have to go on the fly.

I am finding it hard to believe you failed to notice this rule, especially since the latest discussion has been focused on the information given by the Mod in the first few posts (which would make me

think

that everybody would at least glance over the rules and the Townie PM for

themselves

before contributing to discussion).

Can you explain why you made that statement without even reading up on the rules? In fact, that line is

directly above

the townie role PM. How on earth could you miss it?

My suspicions lie with what you said and how quick you said it.

I mentioned it because it was a topic of discussion which would help move the game out of the random phase. I said it "quickly" because I noticed it, and I could find no reason

not

to say it. If it doesn't hurt the town, and it doesn't help the scum, and it gets discussion going (as is obviated through

our

discussion), I fail to even see how you find it "suspicious".

[Rosso Carne]

I think that is very perceptive on PJ's part to have noticed that in the wording, but I think sometimes it may be more carelessness than a specific hint one way or the other. On the other hand, I do agree that its motive, to stop fruitless distracting speculation is very valid.

vote:Rosso Carne

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