Mini 368: Town Of Suspicion - Game over!

[LoudmouthLee]

Religion is not allowed here,

Bah! No The List™? This is an outrage!

Not many names I don't recognize, so that's good. Since LML prodded me into this game, I'll pick on him first:

LML, tell me in exactly 59 words why you are to be trusted.

And now, I shall go to bed.

Well then, 59 words?

[start] In normal cases, I would tell you that I shouldn't be trusted. It would be almost a supreme farce for me to try to convince you otherwise. However, if you look at my play throughout this upcoming game, you will see that I am not only innocent, but a supreme benefit to this town. That makes us townsfolk happy. [/start]

Now, onto scumhunting.

I'm guessing there is only group of scum (Mafia) in this game.

Why should, at this juncture, especially one of your OPENING posts, should this matter? The only people who should WORRY about competing scum groups... well... are the scum.

It seems like you spent some time combing over that post to ascertain if there was another group besides yours, PJ.

On a less "tellish" scale, you piled a second vote on Thok very quickly. Quite strange for an early bandwagon.

This vote isn't so random.

Vote: PJ

[LoudmouthLee]

To further clarify...

My job is to hunt scum. Why should I worry about factions, especially in a mini? The comment seems out of place, and the more I read it, the more it bugs me.

[LoudmouthLee]

Here is a question back at you: Why shouldn't I make observations that I see?

You normally should, however, If you're pro-town, your job is to hunt scum, cults, and serial killers. It doesnt matter how many there are. You then become somewhat hypocritical and say that your speculation is better (or more pertinent) than most:

Pointing this out nips speculation of Cults, Serial Killers, and opposing Mafia groups right in the bud. Such theories often mislead towns in the short run (and often the long run) in any case.

And what you just did is what? You proposed a theory about killing groups.

Quite strange for you not to notice that I was already writing my post before I placed the "second vote". I was in the process of previewing my post originally to make sure my quote tags and underlining emphasis were right, when I saw that Alky had already voted Thok. Since we're all big boys in this game, I found no reason to change my random vote simply because it happened to also be a second vote.

Fairly odd of you to spend most of your energy talking about the aside point.

Personally, I change random votes if there's a post while posting edit. I'm glad you didn't, though. It'll allow the town to sift through voting patterns.

Again, I find it odd that you have looked SO CLOSELY at the townie win condition. Reference:

(at which point I will be very displeased at the wording of the town win condition).

Maybe *I* am missing the boat here, but wasn't there a hard and fast rule...

"DON'T TRY AND OUTGUESS THE MOD?"

[LoudmouthLee]

The reason I looked "so closely" at the win condition is because it is equivalent to the win condition for my role. I already had figured there was only going to be one Mafia group in this game before the thread was ever opened.

I, personally, when I read my role, do NOT pay very close attention to the exact wording of my win condition. I find it unnecessary. I know that when I am a pro-town player, I need to exterminate the town of all bad forces.

It just seems that you know the win condition of the good (pro-town) player especially well. Like when you found out your role, you decided to really make sure you KNEW that (townie) PM by heart.

My question is deep rooted in the fact that, yes, you speculated about killing groups first (major scum tell IMHO), when pressed, you just "read your pro-town PM very carefully".

The reason for speculating on scum groups is more to gain reactions from the other players (do they disagree, do they wholeheartedly agree, do they tentatively agree, do they fail to give an opinion, etc.) which can all be looked at later in the game, than it is meant to shape the way a town hunts scum on Day One.

Logic? I call that flapdoodle.

It's GENERALLY used by the mafia to shape misconceptions about the town to the townsfolk. Remember, PJ, this is a game of limited info. Since we do have limited info, don't make assumptions that are no way clarafyable until the game is almost over.

And, of course, a massive

FoS: CES

for playing a third vote on Thok for no reason.

[LoudmouthLee]

If you disagree with me, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Until we go to night, I will respectfully say we do not have enough information to make that assumption.

I am not more suspicious of mith (although he is obviously scum, as indicated in the Proposed Scum Group) because he has read the rules of the game, nor should I be. I honestly fail to understand how you are "suspicious" of me because I happen to have read and contemplated the townie role PM, and drawn a reasonable conclusion based on that knowledge (which you have yet to even dispute).

I'm not going to say that I hadn't NOTED it, but what i'm saying is as follows:

1) The first person to generally specualte OUT LOUD about killing groups is generally scum.

2) By you stating it to everyone, even if you aren't scum, you give the scum info.

2a) Since this was a "no-talk-night", you could be easily just TELLING your scumpartners something that you ascertained by combing through the townie PM as per the front page.

My suspicions lie with what you said and how quick you said it.

[LoudmouthLee]

LML, could you stop having that silly argument and vote for Thok?

You're not being very productive.

And you're a wannabe IS.

[LoudmouthLee]

I'm starting to think you threw that in there so we would subconsciously think you're town by going through the negative interpretation: namely, "LML says he didn't know that scum could nighttalk, therefore he must be town". This is why it's a good thing to read over the rules of games: to gain information to start off with. It is very relevant to games as to whether or not scum/masons/etc. are allowed to talk to each other before games begin, since they can strategize... whereas with night-talking disallowed, they have to go on the fly.

I am finding it hard to believe you failed to notice this rule, especially since the latest discussion has been focused on the information given by the Mod in the first few posts (which would make me think that everybody would at least glance over the rules and the Townie PM for themselves before contributing to discussion).

Can you explain why you made that statement without even reading up on the rules? In fact, that line is directly above the townie role PM. How on earth could you miss it?

Okay. Time for me to come clean. This will forever tarnish my reputation, but since the majority of you know me so well, it won't come of much of a surprise.

I NEVER read the rules of a mafia game, unless the mechanics (Verbose comes to mind) force me to read the rules.

I also know that there are a plethora of players, many of them GOOD PLAYERS, who do the same thing.

Now, you can easily throw this back at me (as I could be scum trying to play you all here). I'm not. I just assume I know the rules of Mafia by now.

That makes me feel sheepish to say. However, you unwittingly give the town (and the scum info)

Can you explain why you made that statement without even reading up on the rules? In fact, that line is directly above the townie role PM. How on earth could you miss it?

PJ.... you're definately smart enough here. Figure it out.

Now, it solidifies something I was prettty sure of before, now positive of.

My vote is definately staying on PJ for now. I strongly suggest you all follow me on this.

Hint: This comment is reminicent of Antrax's comment Day 1 of the invitational. Antrax should have been lynched then, too. You weren't as explicit, though. So I may just be reading you way too deeply.

[LoudmouthLee]

Well. Could it be POSSIBLE that you would know the exact location of the townie PM (and the other references) because you obviously didn't read the townie PM elsewhere? (as in your Role PM?)

[LoudmouthLee]

I will digress.

I'm not trying to find reasons, but, IMHO, I am finding lots of little things that don't sit well with me.

As for your points.

1.) Why do you consider it "scummy" to suggest there is one scum group in the game, and that that scum group is mafia, when the town has been given reasonable information to believe that is so?

Because we havent had a night yet. Because you're trying to outguess the mod. I don't like it.

2.) [Complete WIFOM] Suppose I am part of the mafia group. What incentive would I have to make sure the town thinks there is only a mafia group? Doing so would only cut off my options later in the game, so that I could not claim Serial Killer at endgame, or try to confuse the town with "maybe there's a cult, we should start suspecting people who were 'cleared'!".

You could be a serial killer looking for an out. I've seen serial killers forgo all kills and wait until the very end. It's brutal.. and excellent play. Soething you're capable of. It just seemed premature (we havent had a night) to make that insinuation, and STILL strikes me as odd..

A.) What will I have gained if it is later shown that there are other scum, whether that entails a Serial Killer, Cult Leader, or something else (which would disprove my theory anyways)?

I believe I refenced that. Devistating for an SK to play as a townie and withhold kills.

Now you are fishing.

I read the rules, and the opening posts. My memory has this odd quality of... remembering things, especially when I have just recently read them. Just like I remember that the opening posts were Thok, Al_Ko, Al_Ko, PJ, mith, LML, LML, PJ (I can't remember the next post off the top of my head right now, although I would wager it was a response from LML), I also remembered the placement of the townie role PM in the opening posts.

Not fishing.. shaking off the rust.

You must have an amazing memory. I'm a teacher. I forget everything.. especially about the placeent of words on a page. Especially when I have more important things to remember.. like where I put my teeth.

[LoudmouthLee]

We've all checked in? Wonderful.

I will now

Unvote: PJ

, as he did not crack to my "overstated accusations".

Since this is Day 1 in a "night-actionless" day, Let's look at the players and figure out who the best bandwagon would be on. I'll give you a hint, it ebds with -ith.

Vote: Mith

Here's why:

Not counting CES (who strikes me, no offense) to be idiotic for the sake of being an idiot, Mith has done the most of "posting without posting anything of content."

****METAGAME WARNING***

I mean, seriously. Mith could have easily taken a stand in the rules conversation. He was active and posting. Instead, he ducked. He's been absolutely non-commital about everything, except for the questioning of PJ's continued vote on Thok.

But then.. he follows it up with:

pj: Why leave it on? There was enough discussion to form better-than-random suspicions. I don't buy the bit about him not having contributed; the game was barely a day old.

and then goes and votes MM for the self vote. Seems like hypocracy to me. I would like some posts of content from Mith besides the "posting to get your post count up" posts from you. It makes you look relatively shady.

A dash of

FoS: Tyfo

for seeing that the thread was up and POSTING a random vote when you just needed to sift through three pages.

and a

Stronger FoS

to CES for continuing to play like a chicken without a head. How about you help with the discussion before you try you best to play like IS.

If Mith manages to make me feel better about him, I will advote running up wither Tyfo or CES.

[LoudmouthLee]

on an honesst scale, first inclination is pjscum. the case pj has against lml is unfounded and crap.

course i'd still hammah thok, but pj is scum.

[rant]

To me, this seems like a person who's upset that he didn't get a role that he's happy with. He's not following the game. He's just posting to go through the motions. It's an epidemic.. a far reaching one. I don't think RC is scum. I just think he's a vanilla townie, unhappy that his role doesn't allow him to dav-vig or be a pumpkin w/ lazers. I wish people would see the fun and importance of veing vanilla.

[/rant]