Micro 39 - WUPBBYORGRMM!!! - D2

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, with AV's input on Doc / JK protects on GNR I think we should NOT have either of them (if Town) claim today unless MYSTERY CIRCUMSTANCES occur.

Before lynching Iceguy I'd like to hear thoughts from GNR and Saulres at the minimum.

@Klick

- if you were Double-shot why did you hold off investigating until last Night?

[Klick]

(I would have used them N0, but I forgot there was a N0)

[saulres]

Whoa.

If I take all the claims as townies giving honest actions/results, that means I'm scum, and I have a hard time believing that. So someone's lying. And overnight I was thinking it would be Sala, but now with all these other claims I'm going to need time to evaluate.

Here's where I was coming from last night; I'm going to have to review all the claims like I said to see which lie(s) fall apart.

Yesterday I had deduced (apparently incorrectly) that Sala was a 2-shot cop. His solid townread on GNR and scumread on Rubick seemed to come from a cop point of view.

When Rubick flipped town I re-evaluated, and started thinking that Sala was manipulating scum.

I also thought that either (or both) or IceGuy/GNR is scum. Ice for the hammer, GNR for the "I could hammer but I'll let IceGuy do it."

MoI, is there anything in your QT with Sala yesterday that could back up a theory that he's

not

a vig scum? Because I could easily see him getting us to lynch a townie yesterday, then try us to get to lynch another townie today and put through

two

delayed kills and one partner night kill to give them basically an auto-win tonight.

Sala, similar question to you: Anything in the QT you can see which would indicate that MoI is scum with GNR? That could explain his concern over GNR dying tonight.

[saulres]

thanks for telling me MoI was confirmed town

Um... How did Sala tell you MoI is conftown? Sala's claimed role doesn't seem to have to have that ability...

Or are you talking about yesterday? Why did you believe Sala then?

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

My role aslo leads me to beileve Ice Guy is scum

I roleblocked Ice Guy last night. And since there was no night kill, that probably means I blocked the kill.

so I would be voting, but we still have plenty of time

As for yesterday with "letting Ice Guy hammer" That's just who I am. If someone claims intention to hammer, I usually let them do it as it gives that person time to comment before the thread is locked.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

Shoot, just realized that someone is bulletproof, which could also mean that someone lost their BP power

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

I just realized something.
Yes, we are potentially looking at Lylo, but we have a problem when lynching Ice Guy. Personally, I think it means he needs to die sooner rather than later.

I have the copying effect and I targeted Ice Guy last night. When Day started, I got the Vengeful effect. That means Ice Guy is a vengeful scum(or townie if some wierd things happened during the night). We need to plan stuff out accordingly. If Ice Guy is town, we need to make sure we know another string scum canidate so we don't lose after this lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have the copying effect and I targeted Ice Guy last night. When Day started, I got the Vengeful effect. That means Ice Guy is a vengeful scum(or townie if some wierd things happened during the night). We need to plan stuff out accordingly. If Ice Guy is town, we need to make sure we know another string scum canidate so we don't lose after this lynch.

Well this is a problem that quasi-solves itself.

If Iceguy is Town he knows that Klick is Scum framing him with a Guilty. Klick is the obvious Vengekill.

If Iceguy is Scum then it doesn't matter what we do in lynching him as he gets to kill who he wants. I'll stay on him in that case as my flip guarantees GNR is Town. GNR should stay off the lynch.

In either case we kill scum so it isn't a MYLO concern.

[saulres]

Vengekill.

Why do you assume IceGuy is Vengeful? Near as I can tell we only have five of the eight positives claimed:
Ascetic: Rubick
Bending: saulres
Loved: Sala
Copying: GNR
Neighborizing: MoI

IceGuy could be Bulletproof or Ninja as well as Vengeful, no? Did I miss something?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why do you assume IceGuy is Vengeful?

Why are you not reading? GNR just claimed Copying as his ability and claimed to have roleblocked Iceguy last Night and gotten Vengeful as a result.

[saulres]

Oh, sorry. I'm working on analyzing investigative claims and my day job, so I missed that part. I've told myself before not to multi-task...

[Salamence20]

Yesterday I had deduced (apparently incorrectly) that Sala was a 2-shot cop. His solid townread on GNR and scumread on Rubick seemed to come from a cop point of view.

Then why did you move MoI's ability to me, if you believed I was a cop?

Sala, similar question to you: Anything in the QT you can see which would indicate that MoI is scum with GNR? That could explain his concern over GNR dying tonight.

Unless if scum are psychics, I don't know why scum would no-kill unless they were blocked or knew I was a slow vig to frame me later. When I was neighborized, MoI asked me about my gambit and I told him I was trying to lure scum into my wagon. He told me he was a gunsmith. So thats why I figured he was town, because otherwise he could of used this against me, not to mention he would be rediculously overpowered if he were scum with that ability.

The one thing that he posted that bothers me is that he said he knew I had a gun

BEFORE

the investigation.

However, he did mention that if Rubrick is town, the scumteam is in GNR/Ice/Salures.

I was planning on vigging Kondi last night, but I trusted MoI's reads more than mine.

(Kondi, I wanted to be a dayvig so I could of took you out )

The way he talked about Iceguy assures me he isn't bussing.

Vote iceguy
Doctor GNR
JK Salures

We should get another No-Kill.

JK be on MoI.

[saulres]

Then why did you move MoI's ability to me, if you believed I was a cop?

I didn't think you were a cop until well after the game started. I moved it to you before I even posted, for the reason I stated.

[Salamence20]

Did you know that MoI was a gunsmith or are you not told?

[Salamence20]

LETS VOTE ICEGUY.

GOGOGOGO

RIGGS
SALURES.

[Klick]

If IceGuy manages to vengekill the Doctor, JK should be on GNR.

[saulres]

Looking for lies in the investigative results:

Spoiler: Klick

Klick claimed cop but didn't know I claimed miller? That's bizarre. You'd think he would have looked for that before investigating -- if he's a town cop. If he's a scum cop, there'd be no reason to look for a miller. But if that's the case, would his partner have let him make this claim? Depends on the partner; it would have to be someone who didn't know (or forgot) that I claimed miller. The first person to say that was MoI, and then Sala immediately copied saying it -- If Klick's scum, that supports MoI town, Sala scumpartner. Klick claimed guilty on IceGuy, and Sala jumped on believing that and also voted -- they could have easily set that up.

Oh look, and when Sala places that vote, he also conveniently throws doubt on MoI for the first time in what, all game? How convenient.

And then Klick says Sala confirmed MoI as town. Huh? Ask Klick about this.

Spoiler: Moi

MoI 211 implies that Sala wouldn't have survived the night if MoI was scum and Sala town.

MoI claims gunsmith (which I confirm), claims to have investigated GNR today

and

that he thought, based on Sala's claim (in the QT I assume), that GNR's going to die anyway. As scum, he would be interested in finding the vig and the cop. With both of those claimed, it doesn't make sense to target GNR so as scum he would probably have targeted Klick (if Klick isn't also scum). So why claim he investigated GNR? GNR could be his buddy and be a safe read, but then he'd know that GNR could die tonight so he'd have come out supporting Sala and arguing for the doctor to keep GNR alive, or else he'd be revealed as lying when GNR flips. So no MoI-GNR team.

Whey else would scum MoI target GNR? To buy GNR's favor for one day? Unless he doesn't believe Sala's claim -- or he and Sala are the scumteam and figure it something goes wrong tonight, he'd seem more townie for clearing GNR.

Either way, both of those support Sala-scum. If Sala's scum and pulled a double-delay-kill gambit then we'd need to take out Klick or MoI (or whoever Sala's partner is) today, or figure out who Sala's other target was and protect him tonight.

Now to go back and figure if that's possible, but I really do have to focus on my work for a while.

[Salamence20]

Salures can go to the scum pile with his buddy iceguy now.

[Salamence20]

It's obviously Iceguy + (GNR/Salures)

If iceguy is town, Klick + (GNR/Salures)

[Salamence20]

EVERYONE ELSE IS TOWN.

ANY VOTE ON ME WILL DIE.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Either way, both of those support Sala-scum. If Sala's scum and pulled a double-delay-kill gambit then we'd need to take out Klick or MoI (or whoever Sala's partner is) today, or figure out who Sala's other target was and protect him tonight.

And this is why Saulres is scum with Ice.

Take out Klick OR MoI today? Nope. If you thought Sala was scum you'd just be happy to get rid of him instead to make sure he doesn't get another kill.

And meanwhile the "Whoever is his partner" logic fails since one of Klick or Iceguy MUST be scum. You are stating that Sala is scum. He can only have one partner. Icguy must be Town via this logic so Klick by default is scum. Yet you are positing that Town Klick could be lying about his result of Guilty on Town Iceguy.

Saulres basically confirmed as Iceguy partner if Iceguy is indeed the scum in Klick / Iceguy.

I think that GNR should be off the Wagon on Ice and that myself, Saulres, Sala and Klick should be on it.

[saulres]

ANY VOTE ON ME WILL DIE.

Rubrik is obvscum based on my gambit. You're scum based on my gambit. You both will die.

Forgive me if I don't believe you.

Moi: I'm very happy to get rid of Sala today, but if he has two delayed kills going out tonight then his partner could end the game tonight. That's what scares me.

And I never posited townKlick lying about his result. I theorized that scumKlick, with his partner Sala, could be trying to get a mislynch on IceGuy so they can win tonight.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Moi: I'm very happy to get rid of Sala today, but if he has two delayed kills going out tonight then his partner could end the game tonight. That's what scares me.

Derp ... how could he have two delayed kills going out? Please explain that in a way that isn't an Appeal to Fear.

[saulres]

Oh fuck you're right, if Klick's town then IceGuy is scum, so it can't be Sala-you. I knew something was bothering me about that but I couldn't put my finger on it.

pedit: He's slow, right?

So he kills someone and vigges someone last night, and neither take effect until tonight.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh fuck you're right, if Klick's town then IceGuy is scum, so it can't be Sala-you. I knew something was bothering me about that but I couldn't put my finger on it.

pedit: He's slow, right?

So he kills someone and vigges someone last night, and neither take effect until tonight.

Because those two kills don't matter for 'end the game purposes' worries if we lynch scum today. So if you 'know' Sala is scum you should be pushing him.