Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[TraceyLyn11]

Hi guys. I requested to the mod that the deadline not be extended because I'd really rather not read up on everything in such a short, rushed time (what with my other game, fall break, and homework. And now computer issues >_>). I'll be sure to begin reading over everything now and continue reading it during the night. Don't expect too much participation from me before today ends. The lynch is just kind of up to you guys for today. With that said, I know my vote is on Telo, but I'm going to leave it there because it's of better use on a wagon than off this late in the day.

[TraceyLyn11]

Does Piggy always joke around this much?

[TraceyLyn11]

Wow. Didn't realize we only got one vote. What happens if Telo claims a power role (assuming she hasn't claimed already)? Then we just go for a no lynch?

(Note: I've never played a theme game before; I don't know how they work Lots of questions will probably be asked..)

[TraceyLyn11]

We can all change our votes like in a normal game. It plays just like a normal game (as far as I can tell anyway.)

Oh, oh, oh, I misinterpreted this:

"During the day, you are given

one vote

that you may use toward lynching a specific player, or choosing not to lynch."

[TraceyLyn11]

Question: Would you all prefer me to do a large catch-up wall commenting on any posts I find relevant in order to see a stream-of-thought sort of thing from me, or would you prefer I just read, list my reads, and maybe comment on the most significant of occurrences?

They'll both probably end in walls (heads up, I'm a waller), but the former would be significantly larger than the latter.

[TraceyLyn11]

hmm that is a good point DGB...

After Newbie 1206, I have always been skeptical of people doing a lot of defending of one particular player.

Why aren't you questioning DGB's constant assertions that I am town, then?

[TraceyLyn11]

Cause you're obv town and not at L-1 so its DGB getting a town read, not white-knighting.

Why can't Huntress get a town read on someone at L-1?

And for the record, I agreed with Huntress's white-knight post. I had seen the post before she commented on it, and had thought the same things she had. I was planning on bringing it up tomorrow in one concise post, but I guess that's not really needed now.

[TraceyLyn11]

I don't actually have a town read on Telo.

Shhhh...

[TraceyLyn11]

hey, periods are serious business. Imagine if everyone on this game had their cycle at the same time? There'd be some mod kills up in this bitch

I will be adding this to my wiki. This was just too perfect for words.

Anyways, I hope I can finish catching up over night. My Newbie game just finished, and my modded game is really late into the game, so I should have plenty of time for this one, now.

[TraceyLyn11]

Hey guys. Unfortunately my computer had to be taken in to get looked at. I still have my phone and my mom's laptop, but they're both a pain to use for mafia. I may be a little late in the update post (I'll start working on it now, though), but I should be getting my computer back any day now, so it shouldn't be too long of a wait.

[TraceyLyn11]

Are you all just pretending not to have read the first few posts? Or did you really not read the set-up?

Actually I'm very tempted to vote DGB. I'll think about it more tomorrow.

Thisthisthisthisthis.

[TraceyLyn11]

@ Huntress How can you be sure that is their only PR? We don't even know how many scum there are in this game? We can guess based on the size of the game, but it is a guess not a for sure know.

I can't see this as anything other than feigning ignorance in light of:

I went and double checked the front page and yes it appears that scum have daytalk. Sorry I missed that in the first read. However I still feel pretty confident about my read on Telo. Especially her reaction after I voted her.

In order to get to the information in the first scum pm in which it makes it clear there is daytalk, you have to get past the setup information in which it clearly states how many scum there are and the structure of the scum team.

And thisthisthisthis.

[TraceyLyn11]

So you think that I worked hard to build a Piggy-wagon, exonerated her on a fake dayvig gambit, and turned around to whip up a wagon against my scumbuddy Telo? Seriously.

It amuses me that out of all of Huntress's post, the part about you is the only part you seem to have focused on.

To answer your question, though, I don't think that's particularly unlikely. Do I think it happened? I don't know - I'm still mulling that over.

Nice try straw manning me, though!

[TraceyLyn11]

@Spring: I doubt this'll make any difference as it isn't provable, but I asked RC to keep the deadline as it was before I got my role PM. I was tight on time as was, and I didn't want to have to deal with catching up on what would have been no more than a couple days.

Speaking of my catching up, two ISO's done... >_> I've been going pretty in-depth, so to save time, I'll start skimming and trimming in order to save some time.

@DGB: Why do you think it's odd that you'd pull a gambit such as this? Obviously you're biased, but I'm curious. I thought you were well-known for gambits and doing the unordinary.

[TraceyLyn11]

Six down.. Eight to go. But I have homework to do. If I have more time later tonight, I'll try to complete another ISO or two.

[TraceyLyn11]

I like keeping them all together. Easier for me later on.

[TraceyLyn11]

Well actually, yes. I don't have a good memory, so I often have to look back at my reads even when I'm town.

[TraceyLyn11]

Town shouldn't care if they change a read on someone that they posted a different opinion before. I'm now cool with a Tracey lynch as well...

I didn't say that. I said I have a bad memory. I.e. I don't remember my reads. It's not a matter of them changing. It's a matter of me forgetting what reads I have and why I have them.

[TraceyLyn11]

Well they must not be very strong reads if you can forget so easily.

I didn't say I forget all of them, nor did I say I will regularly need to look back at my reads. But yes, it generally is the weaker reads that I need to remind myself of. Or maybe key details that I saw in the ISO and wanted to bring up later on. That sort of thing. I'm honestly surprised that no one else can relate to this. You all have your reads completely memorized? Everything about why they're a certain read for you? Meh.

[TraceyLyn11]

I have twenty thousand notebooks beside my computer - it's why I don't make any legit posts on my phone or anything, cause without those notebooks, you're right, I probably wouldn't remember those key details. Though the "key details" that I am thinking of only really apply after 40 pages and lots of information being thrown out and it's impossible to remember that one specific post. We're only at 26 pages - not even 1000 posts yet - most of which is really bad fluff. Not that hard to remember stuff...
Still, it isn't an excuse for not posting your reads, but saying you have them. You posted fluff, really really scummy fluff. And after we lynch the other replacee, we shall lynch you and catch 3 scum in 3 days and have a flawless town victory (okay, except for that vig kill, but that doesn't count).

1. I'm not you. We don't have the same memory capacity - obviously.
2. I'm accustomed to newbie games. Those games rarely reach 1000 posts. I've completed eight town games. I can recall maybe one game where 1000 posts was reached. I still had to keep track of my reads in the other games I participated in even though they didn't reach 1000 posts.
3. Of course I'm posting fluff. I'm working on reads, and until they're done, you'll be seeing a lot of fluff (i.e. my status with the reads) and the rare actual question to people.
4. I did not say I would be using these reads

now

. I really don't understand how that would work. I said I may be using them in the future - if I need them.
5. I will be posting my reads. In a concise post all together.

[TraceyLyn11]

I took it as you saying you wouldn't know what your reads were at all if you didn't double check.

Oh. No, I'm not

that

forgetful.

[TraceyLyn11]

except you made them up.
they are all crapcases.
so its hard to remember?

You haven't even seen my cases yet.

[TraceyLyn11]

exactly.

A genuine case takes seconds. Like mine on you.
A crapcase can take a lifetime.

I always take a ridiculously long amount of time with my ISO's. As town or scum. It's not alignment indicative. No one ever seems to understand that I'm doing more than, "Camn is blah blah blah because of blah." I'm going pretty in-depth in the ISO's. And this time I decided to cut it down a bit by not doing a quote wall. Not to mention I'm trying to keep the ISO's a bit shorter as the deadline for today is pretty short. That being said, I think I'm actually doing pretty well compared to my usual speed.

[TraceyLyn11]

Five left. I saved all the wallers for last, so these remaining few may take a bit longer than the last bunch did.

[TraceyLyn11]

@Eidolon: You don't seem to understand. First of all, they don't contradict. I said in the first quote that I had bad memory. In the second quote Brandi said that she had thought I was saying I wouldn't know my reads

at all

if I didn't look it up. I can get by sometimes (I'd even say most of the time).

Second, as for the copy/paste thing, my issue isn't... Well, whatever you seem to think it is. I want to keep my reads in one post after I hit submit. It's easier that way rather than separating them. There's literally no harm in doing so.

[TraceyLyn11]

Except it is dodgy, deceptive, and makes it harder for us to get a read on you. Scum.

How am I being deceptive? And I'm not making it harder for you to get a read on me. A) Apparently a few of you have scum reads on me - I'd consider that to be a read. Why don't you? And b) I'M GOING TO POST MY READS. I didn't refuse to post them. I just refused to post them unfinished. I don't think that's unreasonable. Why do you?

[TraceyLyn11]

@Eidolon: I was going to tell you all that I should be done with them today, but Tammy told me to stop notifying about my progress.

[TraceyLyn11]

DGB: What is anti-town about wanting my post to be all together? Explain to me how that is harming the town in any way. Enlighten me.

[TraceyLyn11]

@Fujiko: The reads haven't been given; therefore, I'm not distracting from them.

I am a waller in general. I'm sorry if they're difficult for you to read, but I can't help you with that.

I am working as quickly as I can. If I finish them today (I should) we will still have six days. That's not bad.

[TraceyLyn11]

@DGB: You haven't explained why you believe I'm scum. Care to?

[TraceyLyn11]

Tracey - I assume your doing a read on everybody and that's what's taking so long. Why do you feel the need to do a read of everyone?

The biggest reason is because my reads from my initial read through and my reads through everyone's ISO's have not been coming up the same. I'm doing this as much for your all's sake as my own. I've never been in a game this large, and it's a bit daunting to remember everyone let alone what alignment I think they are. There's those few that just stood out to me, but I stress

few

. The large majority fell into, "Wait... What were they again? Why in the world did I think that?"

You waste a lot of time posting useless. argumentative nonsense, when you could post your partial analysis.

Also, you're probably procrastinating the analysis, and you haven't even started, because it's tedious work when you already know who the scum is.

haha

[TraceyLyn11]

Tracey, would you just go ahead and post the chunks you have, and end this argument already?

No. I'll be done in an hour or so, I think.

[TraceyLyn11]

Finally. Here's my formal introduction. I'm TraceyLyn11. Tracey is good. I have never played a theme game, and I have only ventured out of the Nnwbie queue once before (and lost...). I have nine newbie games under my belt, though, so I do have experience. I've read up on plenty of open and newbie games outside of the ones I've been in. So, even though I may know how the open and newbie setups work, theme's and normal's are completely foreign to me. With that being said, this particular game looks simple enough, but be prepared for the occasional question - and don't make fun of me if the answers seem obvious!

Now, onto the game. I read over the game in order, and I am now going through ISO's to provide fresher reads with examples. I will make a catch-up post (responding to everything from day two - none of that is in here) after this one. Though I don't think I will tonight. That post isn't as important, though.

There is no particular order under each category.

TOWN

Eidolon
Tammy
Sea
Huntress

NULL-TOWN

Amrun
Brandi
Camn

NULL

Apok/Katty/Mathgirl
Spring

NULL-SCUM

Fujiko
Piggy
DGB

SCUM

Sucrose
Rach
(Piggy could be argued to be here as well)

---

Rach:

The only person here that I have played with before. I don't like how she came in going after Telo right away. She claims Telo defended Piggy, but in her next post instead of pointing out defensive posts, she points out posts that show Telo dancing around the Piggy wagon. Rach is the first on the Telo wagon. In post #293 Rach bothers me with two things. First, she promises reads and never delivers (nor brings it up again, actually). Second, I don't like her statement,

"I just do not see anyone, even a very experienced player doing the fake dayvig thingy as scum."

I don't understand why that would seem implausible even from an inexperienced player. I mean, it's a pretty safe gambit. All you have to do is say what DGB said. I don't think Rach's statement makes sense from a scum point-of-view unless DGB is her partner, though (this doesn't mean that Rach can't be scum if DGB isn't scum. This just means that the statement is only worrisome if DGB is scum too). This post hurts my head. Tammy already mentioned this, but in post #382 Rach apologizes for missing the fact that scum have day talk in her

first read

. No where before in any of her other posts had she stated or even seemed oblivious to the fact that scum have day talk, so one might ask why she was apologizing for it. I would like to know the answer to that as well as: Why did she mention that this was her second read? Moving on... From the time of her vote to the time of the hammer she didn't question Telo at all. She didn't push her. She didn't interact with her at all. The only thing she mentioned in regards to her vote was that it was good and that Telo kept getting scummier and scummier. At one point she posted an example about how Telo wasn't responding from her Nook and that she must be capable of saying something useful. Something in that post bothered me a lot, though. This quote:

"So I doubt she will say anything that makes me feel she is not scum. It is still a remote possibility that I am wrong about her, but very remote."

It has been a little while since we've been in a game together, but it sounds odd coming from Rach that someone has hardly any chance to redeem themselves. From my [faulty] memory, Rach was always more... Cautious. She didn't have those, "She's scum, guise" reads. She had, "I think she's scum, but she did do this, so I could be wrong" type of reads.

Overall, Rach's ISO is very small. She has hardly contributed anything to the game other than a mostly idle vote. When she first hopped on Telo, it read as though she already knew her alignment. A lot of other people were being fairly scummy, but she chose Telo. And for pretty bad reasoning at that. I just completed a scum game (after being town almost the entire rest of my career on this website), and it reminded me of how difficult it can be to create a case against your partner. You want to make them look scummy, but you don't want to go too far with it for fear of looking like you have extra information. With that being said, it looks a lot like Rach's bad reasoning was a result of already knowing Telo's alignment. Her not providing anything else of note to the game (nor commenting on anyone else's alignments aside from DGB, City, and Brandi) really sets off warning bells for me. It's not that she reads as if she's busy with other things and is simply falling behind. It reads as if she's purposely active lurking.

Amrun:

Amrun comes in asking several questions to several different people due to their RVS choices, etc. She voted Sucrose after a line of questioning to her about whether or not RVS ending quickly was done in a scummy way or not. When I first read this over, I liked it. Even now it rings townish the way Amrun handled it. Especially when she goes on to say that Piggy is scummiest, but before switching her vote, pushes on Sucrose a little more. The entire vote read as a reaction fish of sorts, and it makes me feel good about Amrun. The only thing I dislike is that she continues to cling onto Sucrose being scummy and soon after returns to her when the Piggy wagon was certain to fail. She continues to pressure Sucrose, as well as turning her attention onto others and asking them probing questions. I don't much like post #476, but I can't exactly put my finger on why, so I'm just kind of mentioning it as a reminder to myself to look into it later in the game. This post gives me a similar feeling as the other; though, I think I can better articulate the reasoning of why it bothers me. It seems a little opportunistic. She left Sucrose without any care in the world, and suddenly expressed the thinking that Telo was very scummy - before this she had hardly even mentioned Telo or the wagon that was building on her. She also gives the, "Well, even if she's town, it's not good to do stuff like that." It just seems like backtracking.

Overall, Amrun seems like she's town. She's been pushing people, she's been pressuring people. I don't care much for her end of the day behavior, but aside from that I don't have any complaints. I don't think Amrun is a good lynch at all.

Brandi:

Brandi repeatedly mentions her thoughts on the RVS theory. She also repeatedly states that her and her opponent should stop talking about it and discuss something else... Whilst talking about it in that same post. The discussion continued up to around ISO 16. Past that, others continue to bring it up, but Brandi is actually making an effort to end the pointless discussion by making her posts intentionally curt or else discussing a different, more significant part of her opponents argument (a part that could actually be useful; i.e. post #114). This post - as aggressive as it was - sounds pretty townish. Spring has been pushing her about theory, RVS, fallacies, etc. since pretty early in the game. I think scum would be more happy about the theory talk - it distracts from the game. Brandi's lashing out at Spring for continuously repeating the same things just seems more like an annoyed townie [on her period].
...
And she goes back into the RVS discussion when Amrun brings it back up.

This post is pretty

meh

. She had asserted earlier in the game that she had little experience, and that her meta was pretty lacking; however, in the linked post she uses meta to say that scum have attempted tunneling her before. I also find it amusing that she says this because in her next several posts the only content she provides is to say that Spring is scum [with Telo]. And then there's post #349 which sounds incredibly fake. It was completely out of nowhere (her asking about day talk, I mean). Even if she really didn't know the answer to that, I don't understand why she'd ask it rather than look it up herself. It just reads as a way to earn herself town cred (and by the amount of people who "don't know", I'd say if Brandi

is

scum, her partners and her discussed it in the day talk QT, so they could all earn some town cred; actually, I wouldn't be surprised if - assuming I'm correct - at least one of the scums aren't claiming that they did know about it. That way it would tie them all together... /revelation). Soon following that is: no. Just no. On the other hand, this sounds pretty legitimate. And this. Not so much the first sentence of this. And so-on-and-so-forth. I'll stop link-dumping.

Overall, meh. She spends so much time arguing back-and-forth with Spring (though I will admit that that wasn't all her fault). The whole day talk thing. But other than those, her reactions just seem townish. By that I mean, she gets angry, heated, caught up in it. From my experience scum will pick fights, and the townie will get all upset and huffy about the situation while the scum is almost snide about it.

That's the feel I got from the Spring-Brandi argument (I'll touch more on it under Spring's ISO).

After a re-read of Spring, I have her at null, so this really could go town-town or scum-town. I don't think it's scum-scum at all. I'm cautiously placing Brandi under null-town.

Camn:

She comes in swinging... Sort of. This post makes me feel all happy inside about Camn. Probtown. She continues to ask questions, create reactions, etc., etc. Oh, I do love reaction fishing. I still agree with Huntress about post #423. I think Camn misrepresented Telo to some degree, especially about Telo's "lacking" early posts. However, knowing the flip and knowing Camn's just a pretty aggressive, eager player from her earlier posts, I don't think the post is quite as bad as I had originally thought.

Overall, tentative town. I believed her in her early post when she was talking about Piggy coaching - it sounded genuine, and I figured it gave Camn town cred. Then I saw in a later post that it was all a reaction fish. With that being said, I obviously can't tell completely when Camn is telling the truth or not, so I can't totally trust my town read on her. In the null-town pile she goes.

Spring:

She begins going after Brandi for the RVS stuff. For quite awhile. Then we come upon this quote:

Please describe to me what has happened in the game so far that warranted my attention more than Brandi. My position on the subject is what had happened prior to my vote on Brandi was not very interesting.

Which sounds a lot like "Why me?"

She continues to push Brandi, calling her scum and such. In this post under 'c', that just sounds like a horrible attack against someone. Town wouldn't apologize for calling someone stupid? I don't know about you, but I tend to prefer being

nice

. If I call someone stupid in anger, I'm going to apologize. I don't think I'm alone in that venture either. I like post #340, however. I didn't notice in Brandi's ISO that she had had a dead vote on Sea for so long. But then there's this quote right before the night phase:

I am of a heart to take a very close look at Bunny or City anyway.

Awkward. Don't know if it's really a scummy post, though. Will have to think on it.

Overall, I don't even know. I don't like her attacks against Brandi. They seem very condescending and just read as someone pushing hard for a mislynch. It looked as though there were quite a few misrepresentations, but to be honest, I just didn't pay attention enough to this ISO to really notice anything of specific note in that category. I like how Spring is pushing everyone and asking questions. I like how she has stayed mostly consistent. She's a null read.

Piggy:

Piggy comes in joking around. I don't find anything wrong with her first post like some of you did (though, I don't think I've ever seen town self-vote, so meh. There's that). In post #55 Piggy comments on how she doesn't get reads in mini games until late day two. She votes Telo (third vote on the wagon) after DGB tells her to, and she rides that vote all the way to deadline assuring everyone Telo is definitely scum. This post goes back to earlier in the day when she had been voting herself. After being called out by it from Sea, she unvotes. That post bothers me... I'd expect town to maybe challenge Sea or ignore her request. If they went so far to draw attention to themselves via a self-vote, then they're probably willing to leave the vote on for reactions. Then the doozy: the day vig. I really don't understand why everyone thought this and were townish. The posts are just so small and lacking anything of substance. If I was day vigged I would say my role right away. Not to mention I'd probably start listing off my reads or thoughts on the game before the mod could come back in. I realize a lot of you thought Piggy was newbtown, but if you look at her join date and look at the fact that she has been in three completed games... She's obviously not

that

newb. She understood the mechanics of the game. What's even more bothersome is she didn't even mention DGB's or Sucrose's part in the gambit. DGB's part in it could have been argued to be townish (though she could have outed a town PR fairly early...), but Sucrose not as much. There wasn't really any reason for Sucrose to jump in and try to convince Piggy even more of the gambit, especially considering that Piggy already responded with a "seemingly" townish response. It was just unnecessary. Bah, but back to Piggy. She votes Telo directly after DGB asked her to (though she said DGB ninja'd her. However, a few posts before - one she would have obviously seen - DGB voted Telo. It still looks like sheeping) for... What reasoning? This was the post she mentioned in her vote post, but it obviously doesn't say anything about Telo's alignment (or not strongly so, at least). Telo had responded a few times between the day vig and Piggy's vote on her, but they were only the post I just linked, a sassy post at Eidolon that wasn't really significant to anything, and a post saying that she had asked what was going on. Nothing significantly indicative of her alignment. Yet Piggy

just

had the sudden urge to vote her. Right after DGB. Okay. I believe this post was her admitting to sheeping (da fuck did I just watch?). The rest of her posts following her vote are just, "OHMYGOD YOU VOTED TELO HAVE A COOKIE" "COOKIE" "COOOOOOOKIE". Nothing of substance. She literally rode the wagon to a lynch. I don't understand why town would do that.

Overall, the majority of her posts have been fluff. She's been buddying DGB a lot (and repeating a lot of what she says). She rode the Telo wagon to a lynch in an overly confident manner. And her reaction to the day vig. None of it seems like it's from town. The only issue I have with calling her obvscum is that her play style is so unusual that it has me a little unnerved about whether this is just

her

or if this is her being scum.

Fujiko:

After calling Piggy town several times, she pretty opportunistically jumps on the wagon. Six people are already on it, and her vote followed Telo's who had Fujiko as a town read. Fujiko had Telo as a null-scum read (I think?). Could be classic distancing/bussing. There were a few instances of of Fujiko seemingly sheeping other people's thoughts/reads. Lots of "I agree"s. Not necessarily bad, but it's a warning bell. This post is pretty meh. Especially this quote:

Or like I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into it. I'm not sure exactly if newly-dead people say "is" or "was" -

especially ones that are fairly new.

Look at a quote that was made only fifty-four posts before:

Piggy's post 213 looks pretty bad to me, honestly. (Although I don't get the seastorm wagon either.) Until then,

she looked like someone who was new.

(Many of us in this game aren't far behind.) I don't like the scum philosophy bit at all. I was looking at the self-vote as a nervous joke, not a reaction test - as a reaction test,

the nervous newish player makes less sense

.

Just something of note. Another thing of note in that post is that Fujiko unvoted as people were leaving the wagon. By the time she unvoted there were only three people still on Piggy's wagon.

"What do people do when they don't know where to put their vote, anyway?"

and

"I'm not convinced she's scum by any stretch, but I'd be interested in hearing more from her."

Ohgawdwatisthis.

Fujiko continues to be very agreeable. She is casting soft suspicion on a lot of people while not totally standing by that read on them.

Overall, I can't decide whether she's just too new to know better or if she's scum. Or both. Some of her play reminds me of my first game (I was town), so I'm very hesitant with this. On the other hand, she's had some experience, so she knows how the game should work. With that being said, I think I'm going to ignore her seemingly newbieness and say she's pretty scummy.

Tammy:

Town. Just town.

DGB:

Starting off she goes after Piggy for her intro post. This quote has always bugged (and confused) me:

Obviously, from the FOS list, her partners are at least CityElectric and Huntress.

I can't tell if DGB was joking or not.

She continues to push Piggy. Soon adds Telo to her list (for reasons unknown). This post is kind of ironic. Don't know what it means to the game, though. DGB pretends to dayvig Piggy. I find it kind of amusing that DGB knew there wasn't a dayvig, but she didn't know there wasn't day talk. Sounds fake. Amusing that she wants a case on Sucrose when she never provided one (nor reasoning, I believe) for her Telo vote. I don't like that she repeatedly states that Sucrose is likely town and that Piggy is confirmed town. Sounds fake. I don't care much for post #469. She had just had our slot listed as null-scum. She has made no other mention of Flinter before this either. I kind of like this post, though. It's a good point. Her attack on Telo for the lack of claim at the end of the day is a null-tell. I assume she'd do it as either alignment.

Overall, she reminds of Thor665. Very reactionary. This makes it hard to read her. I think some of the stuff she has done could be called scummy, but I also know she's a somewhat unconventional player. I think the questions she asks and how she pushes on everyone is townish, but I also realize that that's not so difficult to fake as scum. I'm going to go with my gut and say null-scum.

Eidolon:

Town. Just town.

Huntress:

Post #154 sounds pretty townish. She starts off saying people agreeing with her makes her a bit suspicious. Then she says that Sucrose has been doing that and has even used the same wording as her which is alarming. She goes on to explain how Sucrose pretty opportunistically jumped onto the Piggy wagon. I don't disagree with her findings, and it just feels townish in all. A good way to start off the game. Another good post is this one. She's asking questions to people, challenging them, stating reads. This quote just screams town:

Why would scum need to coach in thread when they have daytalk?

Scum may know for a fact that they have day talk, but there's not much benefit for them to announce in thread that they know it. It's better to go the route of most others in this game - act oblivious. Town are less likely to know (obviously) than scum, so if you pretend you don't know, you've got a one-way ticket to being considered town (assuming you were convincing in your lie). Huntress went the straight forward route and challenged Camn regardless of it being seen as potentially scummy. This quote has always bothered me:

Especially don't like the line repeated in post 472 which is encouraging a relatively new player to break rules. I'm trying to decide whether Camn would say that if she really thought that Telo was scum, or if she knows it's safe as she knows Telo is town. Actually, it could even be a bus.

It just disconcerts me that Huntress actually took Camn seriously about asking Telo to tell us who her partners were. It was obviously a joke, and even a newbie can figure out that it's not good to name your partners.

Then there's this quote. Telo may have turned up scum, but that doesn't mean the points brought against her were valid. When I first joined the game, I had seen a quick glimpse of Camn's case, so I decided to match the first few of Telo's posts with Camn's case to see if Camn was making sense. I came to the same conclusion as Huntress - a lot of the things Camn was saying were not entirely true about Telo. I also don't like that everyone jumped on Huntress for "white knighting" (I wouldn't even call it that). Was she supposed to just let a lynch ride on information that was faulty? I definitely wouldn't say the timing was the best with how close to deadline it was, but I still don't think it was scummy of Huntress to point out such a thing. Another thing that gives me town vibes about Huntress is her lack of responding to suspicion against her. I know that when I'm town I tend to do that (unless the reasoning is misrepresenting me), and when I'm scum I tend to focus a lot on why people suspect me. The fact that everyone disagreed with her post about Telo and were throwing suspicion at her and

Huntress just ignored it all by asking questions to others in order to better understand or gain reads

just reads as ridiculously townish. However, something I dislike is post #501 where Huntress votes Camn. I think that even though she may have disagreed with the Telo wagon, voting someone with no votes on them that close to deadline was fairly anti-town.

Overall, methinks Huntress is town. Reading through the thread with everything all together left me uneasy about her, but in ISO it just seems very obvious.

Sea:

Is this slot inactive or what? Anyways, post #66 feels pretty townish. Right away she's questioning people and trying to get everyone to participate. Not to mention she wasn't afraid to encourage Piggy for questioning her. This post screams town. Especially looking at how new she is, this sort of stuff doesn't usually come from newbscum (though, then again, I do play in the newbie queue). It's too... Stream-of-conscious-y. I understand that Sea has played on another forum, but in my experience, it still takes awhile for those players to get used to how MafiaScum works.

Overall, I think Sea is town. She's pretty lurky, but it doesn't feel like she's hiding anything, and seeing as how she's somewhat new to this, I'm going to give her town points for that.

Apok/Katty/Mathgirl:

First, Mathgirl. I read one of her other games on MafiaScum awhile ago (er, I guess not that long ago seeing her join date). I remember thinking she seemed pretty obviously town. She was town. I'm getting the same feel from her [three...] posts in this game, as well. The only thing in her posts that really stuck out to me as bad has already been touched on, but:

Soooo reads time. It's never too early for reads. It's just that these reads will change over the course of a game. Especially the first readspost. I fully expect every single one of my reads to be completely wrong. Even if the are mostly null.

I don't like how she's explaining away her reads as wrong already.

Next, Katty. She's... Well, I'm unsure. One thing I didn't notice in my initial read-through was that Katty also said Telo was defending Piggy - just like Rach. Scum tend to accidentally use the same wording as their buddies. Rach said it first, and in her second post after replacing in, Katty used similar wording. I think it may be significant to point out that Katty seems to be knew (she created the account in 2011, but she's still a townsperson). Here's Rach's and Katty's. Both called it defending when Telo was pretty obviously saying she found Piggy scummy. I don't really know what to make of that bit, but meh. Katty replaced out pretty quickly, and Rach's been pretty inactive, so maybe they're both just that inattentive to this game; though, that's not exactly an alignment tell.

Finally, Apok. Apok's one post of note (out of two) doesn't seem scummy. It's just her reads on people of note. She votes Rach. Maybe opportunistic since two votes were already on Rach and the day just started? But she said it was for pressure, and I don't know. Too little to really judge her part in this slot just yet.

Overall, I think the amount of replacements is indicative of town (I disagree with you guys - I've never replaced into a scum slot before, and I'M IN THE NEWBIE QUEUE WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIKELY TO FREAK OUT OVER THE PRESSURE). There's a lack of participation in all of them that makes me think they aren't scum, as well. I'd think scum would be more likely to try and stick it out, but then get too caught up or upset over the pressure. But also, guys, there's day talk. The pressure can't be that hard on scum when their buddies are likely coaching them every step of the way. No, the replacements are indicative of null at worst, town at best. As for their actual play, I'm leaning null mostly because none of the three had really said much of note. Hopefully Apok can better clarify the slot.

Sucrose:

Honesty. I like it. This quote on the other hand:

You're right, I was sheeping your point, I only noticed the incident on re-read. It was a good find. I'm doubtful I would have noticed how few hours had passed between Piggy's post and Sea's on my own, because I usually never pay attention to timestamps.

Bothers me. Normally I'd say as I said before. Honesty is good. However, this feels fake and contrived for some reason. I guess because she added, "Good find." Not to repeatedly go into my meta (because everyone plays like I do, right?), but I know as scum I would often times agree with people because I figured the honesty would earn me town-cred. Much like what she did in the quote.

In post #202 Sucrose says Piggy's posts are "legitimately scummy." Before this she had not mentioned finding Piggy scummy or any of her posts scummy. And then this quote. Oh gosh is it bad. We can tell from the Telo wagon that scum wanted to buss someone, one of their partners. That being said, Piggy was looking like a lynch earlier in the day. Assuming Piggy was scum, her partners could have bussed her, lynched her, and boom. It wouldn't have made what Sucrose said true at all, but it would have probably given her town cred (for whatever reason). After all, she's acting oblivious to the fact that there's day talk. Not to mention she's basically saying how much she's "buying into" the Piggy coaching stuff (though I think this may have been a jab at Piggy rather than referring to what was said earlier in the game - Piggy coaching her buddies). Meh. Just bothers me. AND THEN AND THEN AND THEN THERE'S THIS JEWEL: post #234. But let us look at all of the posts referring to the dayvig.

DGB's fake dayvig. 10:48 am.
Piggy's first response. 12:01 pm.
DGB encouraging Piggy to tell us her alignment. 12:13 pm.
Sucrose's "going along with it" post. 12:22 pm.
Piggy's claim. 12:57 pm.

DGB, Sucrose, and Piggy were all on at the same time. There was about ten minutes between the first few posts (excluding DGB's original dayvig), and then the last one was made about forty minutes later. Of course this is pretty WIFOM, but they didn't make any posts after Piggy's claim even though (presumably) they were all online at the same time. This leads me to believe that a possible scenario is they're all scum partners (or at least two of them are), and were talking to each other via QT before each post was made. This is probably stretching. But meh. The time stamps seem a little too convenient to me. And in Sucrose's next post she doesn't touch on what she thinks of DGB's or Piggy's alignments when the entire gambit centered around them. That seems a little odd.

Moving on, wat. She votes Bunny after saying Fujiko and Telo are both highly scummy. She explains this by saying Bunny needs pressure. ... Telo had five votes on her by the time Sucrose made this post, and Fujiko had two. Bunny has zero. How is that going to pressure her? Later she says this. Though she also had stated that she found Telo and Fujiko legitimately scummy. Why would it be more beneficial for her to vote someone with no votes rather than someone with several? Especially when she found them all to be fairly scummy? My thought is probably because of what happens soon after: Sucrose hammers. It allowed her to prevent Telo from giving anymore information.

Overall, scum scum scum scum. Most of what I say in the above relies on other people and their alignments rather than solely Sucrose's, but it's all just so

convenient

. In the end it boils down to Sucrose's posts being very controlled. Sucrose not being overly townish (i.e. asking questions, challenging people, etc.). She does occasionally, but most of the questions and challenges just seem to be a way of casting suspicion on her opponent.

[TraceyLyn11]

Ah! I knew I was forgetting something in that post:

VOTE: Rach

[TraceyLyn11]

Also, DGB, could you just call me Tracey? Or at least not TL. >_>

P-edit: Pft. I disagree.

[TraceyLyn11]

Would either of you like to explain why?

DGB, that sounded dangerously close to a soft-claim. Soft-claims are scummy.

[TraceyLyn11]

@DGB: So you're going to allow me to think she's scum until we either both die or game's over (or my read changes/Sucrose dies). Why wouldn't it be more beneficial to explain now?

[TraceyLyn11]

And why are you, DGB, asking for a claim from Rach when you're on her wagon? Only people off the wagon should be asking for a claim.

[TraceyLyn11]

Dayvig: TraceyLyn11

amidoinitrite?

UNVOTE:

[TraceyLyn11]

Why did you quote that Tammy?

[TraceyLyn11]

I... Wat. No. I was kidding by making the same post Piggy made when DGB fake dayvigged her. Or, the sad face was that. The "amidoinitrite" was telling you it was a joke. And the unvote was because Piggy and DGB are both on the wagon. That makes me nervous.

[TraceyLyn11]

I thought you said you read my wall, Tammy.

[TraceyLyn11]

@Brandi: DGB took it out of context. Read my Rach thoughts, and it'll make more sense why those are points of interest.

[TraceyLyn11]

@Tammy: I commented on DGB's fake dayvig several times in my wall. Not to mention you can jus see from my making that post that I have read the entire thread. That being said, why would I fall for a fake dayvig when one had already been done (by the same person no less) earlier in the thread?

[TraceyLyn11]

So, then why did you unvote?

...

And the unvote was because Piggy and DGB are both on the wagon. That makes me nervous.

I think it's bed time for you, ahah.

@Rach: You say you'll claim... But you didn't? Also you aren't at L-1 anymore.

[TraceyLyn11]

@Spring: Read the thread. I literally unvoted for that reasoning. As for my role PM, I was on the replacement list so Jackal contacted me. When he did I agreed that I'd be in the game, but I'd prefer him not to extend the deadline. He said that was okay and gave me my role PM. Also remember that there's day talk. Even though Rach may not seem like a "mastermind", her buddies could be.

[TraceyLyn11]

VOTE: Sucrose

Counter wagon anyone?

[TraceyLyn11]

@Spring: I said it twice after my unvote. And what... The exact time? I read it as soon as I saw RC had sent it to me. Which was probably right away or less than 24 hours after I got it.

Why?

[TraceyLyn11]

@Spring: Nope. Though I'd like to try that once if for no other reason than shits and giggles.

@Fujiko: Why not? What is your read on me? Did you read my wall?

[TraceyLyn11]

@Sea: sjbdieneodndkndkdnekod I've already explained the vote twice. >_> READ, PEOPLE. It wasn't a joke unvote? I was serious. Two people I suspect were on the wagon. Why would I think it a good idea to continue backing such a wagon? And the TL;DR is the list at the top of my wall. Under each ISO, however, I do an "overall". That's sort of the TL;DR version in paragraph form, I guess.

Camn, why are you sheeping DGB so hardcore? What makes you think she's town rather than scum?

[TraceyLyn11]

She thought she was at L-1, she should have claimed. However, I really don't like DGB trying so hard to lead the town. I don't care if it's something she regularly does - I don't trust her.

[TraceyLyn11]

Happy scumday, RC. (:

[TraceyLyn11]

(4) Insecure little scum bought some time and scurried back to the QT for advice.

I've been considering this. She kind of stalled claiming in another game we had played (she was a doctor), but she left a tell, "You need me." She left absoltely no indication of her alignment here.

I'd like to see her response to the questions about what she actually meant, but I'll likely move back to the wagon regardless of the people on it. Might as well trust my strong scum read more than my two null-scum reads, right?

Also, Camn was referring to you, I believe.

@Camn: Speaking of which, what does "lighting you up" mean?

[TraceyLyn11]

And in this case yes I am Town.

Looks to me like an indication of alignment.

Is she admitting to being a Vanilla Townie or just of the faction Town? If that was her claim, then it was bad. She should know to specifically claim.

[TraceyLyn11]

And you don't think her partners would be urging her to post... Why?

[TraceyLyn11]

Move over, camn & DGB. Tracey is my new favorite. She even bolded it so I wouldn't miss it!

Thank you. <3

I'm someone's favorite?

But for cereals, you're welcome!

[TraceyLyn11]

Rach has already refused to claim or provide reads already.
We run you up to maximize coverage.

She hasn't refused. She just hasn't done so.

In other news, I don't care much for the Apok vig. I'd prefer Sucrose, DGB, or Piggy. But meh, two of them appear to be strong town reads to others, so they seem unlikely. A null read of mine being vigged is better than a town read. I'm confused about the Rach lynch. On the one hand, I think she's scum. On the other, some of my scum reads think she's scum... We'll see how it turns out.

Sorry I haven't been too active (by my standards, at least). As I said before, the majority of my posts are coming from my phone or my mom's lap top. I did just get my computer back, but it's on it's way to dying, so it won't be another few days until I have a sturdy computer that is actually mine that I can rely on. Expect my content, posting quality, and posting quantity to largely pick up (hopefully, anyways) as soon as I get it.

[TraceyLyn11]

Can we come back to Sucrose now, Goof? I like her better for scum anyway.

I have more to say. Once I get to the computer I will do so (so in an hour or so).

[TraceyLyn11]

NOT AGAIN. Either stop bussing, or holy fuck my reads are off.

Suendodnoeksksdmdlmer

Rach, you still have to claim.

[TraceyLyn11]

She's scum. I believe now.

[TraceyLyn11]

I'm placing intent to hammer, Rach, if you don't claim in your next post.

[TraceyLyn11]

I'm still willing to hammer. Everyone else?

[TraceyLyn11]

VAIT VAIT!!! Apok needs to claim too!!!

And if the vig decides that they don't want to kill Apok? Or what if Apok

is

the vig (or any other PR, really)? I think having the vig-target claim is a bad idea. It just results in scum having more information.

Don't forget to lynch/vig Apo & camn

after I'm gone.

Amrun, too, for good measure.

Why do you keep saying (I believe you've said it multiple times anyways) you're going to be the kill tonight?

Fuck me...I didn't realize it had been so long.

Firstly, Eidolon, look at Fujiko's posts. How many of them, especially Day 1, have "I agree" or "you're right" or some variation thereof?

It looks like I'm probably getting vigged here. Honestly, I can't really complain about that.

DGB always drives me a little bit crazy, because I've never been able to read her well. Tracey's probably town I'd say, after the wall came out and conversation ensued. DGB is, as usual, fucking with my head. Tammy's really impressed me lately. Also, if Rach is scum, then fujiko's super duper 100% scum. I see similar patterns as d1 in her.

Also, I'd like to know why your lynch/vig order makes any difference, spring.

This doesn't sound like it comes from scum. Would someone like to enlighten me as to why it is from scum?

Tracey shows once again that's she's not being clued in a scum QT.

How?

YOU have been bussing me all game.

(omg dgb/camn scumfession!!)

Maybe not a Camn/DGB scumfession, but it's borderline Camn scumfession.

You're crazy, DGB. I was never trying to breadcrumb being a vig, the only thing I don't want is random vig shots, because I've seen that eff up the town something bad. I think Apok and Rach are by far the two scummiest suspects,

I don't care which one gets shot and which one we hang

, so long as we get claims first. Of course if the vig thinks I'm wrong and one of the two is town she can shoot whoever she likes.

Yeah, by the look of it Rach may be a good lynch too, BTW the logical thing to do is to run up Apok and vig Rach.

Finally, someone agrees!

Mhmmmmm. Okay.

[TraceyLyn11]

Hey, I'm amazed I got a second day. With no claimed PR, I might actually get a third, but I'm not counting on it.

But you're far from obvtown. You're just the leader. If your reads are completely off, wouldn't they want to keep you around?

[TraceyLyn11]

Sucrose's over-the-top breadcrumbing that she's the vig struck me as so in-your-face obvious that the scum would already have planned to whack her tonight. As it turns out, Sucrose is scum who is obsessed by the vig, controlling the vig, perhaps even outing the vig.

Oh.

It wasn't obvious to me.

Scum never, ever want the leader of town to stick around. Not someone who can make everyone blindly follow like Goof can. It really is weird that she's still around, and I might be suspicious of her tomorrow if she's not dead. But that'll just be scum WIFOM, so we'll see.

I disagree. I was just scum, and the leader's reads were so incredibly off that we left him until LyLo. He even happened to be the jailkeeper, but it didn't matter because... His reads were so off. He ended up making the wrong decision in LyLo, and we won.

They aren't going to kill off someone who could lead the town blindly into a mislynch. Especially if said person isn't even seen as universally town (i.e. not unlynchable).

Then there's also the consideration that DGB actually is scum, in which case she'll be alive tomorrow (unless the vig kills her).

Not to mention [WIFOM]they may be going purely for PR's, and if they don't think she holds one, they aren't going to kill her.[/WIFOM]

[TraceyLyn11]

You're providing reads with no explanations. You're trying too hard to convince us of your townlyness. You're not pushing for your scum read, nor did you even elaborate as to what it was that made her "ping your scumdar". You were inactive until you were threatened with a lynch. You tried to act like a PR. You say it was to draw a kill, but I think it could also be said it was done to avoid the vig kill. You've been inactive and unhelpful for the majority of this game.

VOTE: Rach

So, it ended in your lynch. If you were town, then I hope you take the above to heart.

[TraceyLyn11]

huuurrrggg!! What about waiting for Apok to claim didn't you understand?

I already responded to that.

[TraceyLyn11]

Bah I am town please do lynch Sucrose for me....

I did not put much in the reads because

I knew there was not time enough to do so.

Town please win this game for me ♥

Good Luck.

You thought I would hammer without hearing you out (assuming you would announce you were making your reads) first?

[TraceyLyn11]

Sucrose needs death.

[TraceyLyn11]

Traceyscum anyone?

Explain.

VOTE: Sucrose

[TraceyLyn11]

Traceyscum anyone?

Also, why are you asking for approval, and if you think I'm scum, why are you not voting me?

Gut scumreads:

Sucrose
DGB
Piggy
Camn

When I have time tomorrow, I'm going to read back over my reasoning for Fujiko null-scum and Camn null-town. Other than those, I'm fairly confident in DGB/Sucrose. That last scum is probably between Piggy and Camn (or Fujiko, depending).

[TraceyLyn11]

DGB, Piggy, Camn, or all three? And who's the fourth?

Going to re-read all these for a start. I was trying to do a post on Camn at the end of Day two but found myself struggling a bit with it and was wondering if I was letting confirmation bias creep in due to the way she has been posting. I need to work that one out.

Is this directed at me?

[TraceyLyn11]

I'm having some computer issues, so my activity is hindered yet again.

I'm feeling incredibly uneasy about DGB. Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to re-read Camn/Fujiko.

Basically, I'm happy with a Sucrose or DGB lynch. Maybe Piggy.

[TraceyLyn11]

It's either Camn and DGB or just DGB (or neither). I don't think Camn's scum without DGB. With that being said, I don't think Camn and DGB is completely likely. And I certainly think both are scummy.

VOTE: DGB New wagon? I think this one will give more information, anyways.

[TraceyLyn11]

@DGB: Actually, you just said that you were thinking you were wrong about your Sucrose read. So.

And yeah. For information.

[TraceyLyn11]

So... you unvoted Sucrose, because me, your scum read, believing Sucrose *may* be town?

Now you're misrepresenting me. Try again.

[TraceyLyn11]

I've totally been lurking, guys. This game's interest level has gone down a lot. I just want DGB/Sucrose (or maybe Piggy) dead. Please?

[TraceyLyn11]

Guise. There's only one 'n' in 'Lyn'.

Good news, I have my computer back.

Check her iso, it's not the only post where she's openly reluctant to vote for the scum.

Since when was this a town tell?

This gives me a bad vibe.

I disagree. It actually made me feel a little better about Sucrose.

@DGB:

When did Tammy call Sucrose town apart from in her first thoughts at the beginning of the game, and during the period she thought Sucrose was vig? Her only other comment on her was in post 578, where she expressed doubts about her.

Why'd you ignore this?

Okay, I do not understand why no one jumped on this. WHAT TOWN FEELS THE NEED TO SAY "EVEN WHEN I'M TOWN?" COME ON!

I'm sure I've said it before several times as town. I felt the need to say it because if I didn't you guys would have been like, "YEAH BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM. YOU PROB DON'T DO THAT AS TOWN. MWAHAHAHHAAHAH." It's often seen as a scummy thing to do, so I felt the need to clarify that I do it as either alignment. Why do you seem to think this is so condemning? Are you seriously telling me you've never seen town say something along those lines?

Yeah this post is fucking awful. I'm not even going to explain why because when I quoted this

I was going to make a scum case on Apok because I forgot she got shot and flipped town.

Two can play at that game. What town feels the need to say that?

If you think you should have died last night, who benefits the most from your continued survival?

TraceyLynn.

Who do you think the other scum are along with me? Either in terms of people who fit as my scumbuddies or people who just seem like scum.

Hey say fwa?! I'm not voting?!?!?! What is this madness?
VOTE: Tracey
still the best vote for the day gurls

WHY IS SHE SEEN AS UNIVERSALLY TOWN.

DGB may be scum, but if she is she's too hard of a boss to take down right now. (I have DGB under my Final Boss of the Internet™ list)

Fujiko commented on this already, but nobody is too hard to take down. It's literally a combined effort to take someone down. All you have to do is convince the others. That's not so hard if you put out correct arguments. Do you think DGB is scummy? There's now two votes on her. What say you?

Also nice sheep of Amrun. I don't think anyone noticed.

I'm sorry. I don't follow the logic.

Its this: You insult us if you think WE BELIEVE that YOU BELIEVE that tracy's 'clamoring' was a threat to you.
You didn't.
You don't.

Plus... it doesn't matter... if she is scum, her crap-case toward you has nothing to do with her calculations. She considers YOUR opinion of HER.. not the other way around.
Her 'clamoring' for your lynch only matters if YOU are scum and she is town... so it is curious that you even brought it up....

VOTE: TRACYLYNN

I don't understand any part of this post. Explain please?

Fujiko's post #974 leaves me all confused. On the one hand, she's agreeing with me. On the other hand, it's taken several pages since my initial readings for her to jump on DGB - not to mention a vote from me. Plus two of her scum reads - DGB and Camn - are (sort of) two of my scum reads. jdsnihfuisuijiururisiuiruriu

Still must re-read her.

I'm reconsidering my reads slowly. I just caught something of Brandi - my town read of her player slot is maintained.

What was that?

---

Amrun, Piggy, Brandi, Camn. Piggy is scummiest. Amrun's jump onto me was probably the most townish. Piggy's was scummiest. Brandi's was next. And I didn't understand Camn's, so I don't know what to think of her jump on me.

Remind me - must read over Sucrose, Fujiko, Piggy, and Camn.

[TraceyLyn11]

Post later tonight if I have time.

[TraceyLyn11]

I have a throbbing head ache, and I am just beyond exhausted. Had an unplanned movie trip tonight, so what I thought was going to be time responding to all of this ended up being time in front of the big screen. I promise I'll do this tomorrow.

[TraceyLyn11]

Okay, I lied. I ended up being more busy today than expected. TOMORROW. Promisepromisepromise.

[TraceyLyn11]

My computer is completely and totally done! No more problems, no more time spent working on it. YAAAAAAAAAY!

Anyways, making a catch-up post now. In light of deadline and the time I actually have available to spend on this tonight, I'm going to try my best to just summarize my thoughts rather than doing a quote wall.

As for my re-reading of several people, I didn't do it, and I'm not going to. Not this day, at least. I've still been reading along with this game, and I'm perfectly happy having a lynch between DGB or Piggy. With that said, I'll make "cases" against them. 'Cases' is in quotation marks because they won't be as elaborate as they would normally be.

[TraceyLyn11]

Guys, I really think Tracey is town. Bad reads, but not scum.

Stop.

[TraceyLyn11]

@Huntress: Why did you feel the need to repeat everything I said in post #984 in your post #985?

I dislike how in DGB's post #987, she's saying Fujiko's only reason for wanting her dead was based on gaining information. Just above her vote in post #974, Fujiko said she was thinking Camn or DGB were scum. DGB even quoted this. Not to mention DGB is attacking Fujiko for wanting an information lynch when I had said that as well (the quote Fujiko quoted when she voted for DGB).

Amrun's post #991 bothers me because it has a few misrepresentations in it, and one of her largest points on me are based on night speculation; however, I'm not going to go into depth on why it's bad because I get an overall townish feel from Amrun.

In other news, Sucrose is beginning to not look scummy. For some reason this:

"I know realistically I can't have all three scum on that list, and at least one of my towny-reads must be dead wrong, but I have town reads on all the other players."

just feels townish. I dunno. If nothing else, I don't particularly believe Sucrose and DGB are likely scum together due to their large interactions. That being said, I think DGB is more scummy.

All of my wat.

---

Why hasn't this re-read of camn/Fujiko been delivered? Why announce you are willing to lynch 3 townies today, before your promised reading? That's not town-think.

It hasn't been delivered because I haven't had time.

Because I'm fairly certain of my reads against them without re-reading. Hence my not saying that I would re-read them. Why do you identify them (and you) as townies?

It's certainly town-think if it's not being misrepresented.

Now, without have done the promised re-read, we have a verdict on Fujiko & camn, but rather, going back to read her foregone conclusions Fujiko null-scum and camn null-town. How does she know if she hasn't re-read?

I know because of that list I posted above my ISO's post.

But in the previous post, camn was nulll-town. Now, camn scummy?

I never said Camn was null-town. Nor have I implied it. The post I assume you are referring to is post #905. I know you're smart enough to realize I was referring to those being my previous reads of them, not my current ones. Why you're acting as if you're not, I have no idea.

Whatever happened to the Sucrose-top-scumread?

As I said at the top of this post, I've been able to read along. She's been looking not quite as scummy. Or at least not as scummy as you.

How come she's not re-reading me, but she must re-read Sucrose, whom she voted earlier today, and whom she thought was scum yesterday? Still no re-reading of camn, but the opinion keeps changing from null-town to sorta-scum without that re-read?

As I said ^above^, I've been reading along. Sucrose hasn't been looking as scummy, so I wanted to refresh myself on why I had thought she was. As for why I don't need to re-read you, you look consistently scummy. No need to re-read.

I already explained about Camn.

---

DGB declared Sucrose town in post #1002 with several posts leading up to it. Her reasoning: night kill speculation. Do not like.

Seastorm makes her vote count analysis and ISO post. After explaining her thoughts behind the vote count analysis, DGB gives her thoughts on it in post #1014 and others. Camn jumps in on it, too. This leads me to believe that if Sucrose

is

scum and Seastorm is town... Then either Camn or DGB are Sucrose's partner. It'd make sense by their quickly saying the analysis is wrong and that Sea is scum. I know in newbie games it's pretty upheld that scum don't vote directly after each other. I guess it could be different in larger games, but I find it hard to believe that the difference would be that dramatic. That being said, if someone else who believed in the logic that scum won't vote directly after each other, they could be led to believe that Sucrose is in fact scum. If what Sea said holds water in this particular game (and Sea is town), that would leave four possibilities of scum (not including Sucrose): DGB, Eidolon, Fujiko, and Amrun. Two of which are in DGB's null-town reads, and one of which is in null-scum. I don't necessarily believe that Sucrose, Eidolon/Amrun, DGB, and Telo are scum together. Just thought that this information was kind of interesting. (Note: Amrun/DGB could be possible. DGB was voting Amrun but had her listed as a null-town read. As soon as Spring called her out on it, she switched to Spring)

I agree with Spring in regards to DGB's post #1027. Her answering for others was bad.

Really disliking Brandi's lack of participation lately (referring to post #1035 specifically. Her last post was about 70 posts before this, and that's all she comments on. I do realize it was her birthday, but the fact that she was able to post on her birthday but not during the two days before? Meh).

Fujiko's post #1037 sounds like it's from town.

I'm liking Huntress.

And you guys think she's town?!

Serious question: Anyone who thinks Piggy isn't scum, explain in a few sentences or longer why. I don't want a short, "Because she's done nothing scummy" or "Because she's hard to read." I want actual reasons and citations telling me why you believe she isn't scum. Feel free to do the same for DGB, though reasons for her are less important.

I don't like how DGB is avoiding my lynch and is instead going for Spring. I think both Spring and I are easy lynches (in terms of low credibility and activity), but I think Spring would be more of an obstacle to DGB (assuming she's scum). Now, I can also look at this in a less biased/tunnely way. DGB avoiding my lynch and going for the - what I think is - harder lynch could be seen as DGB being town. Hmm.

This, then... This? DGB: "Yeah, Spring's scum! Let's lynch her!" Piggy: "OMG I TOTALLY AGREE. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T LYNCH TRACEY IS SCUM!" ... Am I the only one confused? Then there's this! HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT PIGGY ISN'T BEING SEEN AS SCUM.

Really.

Spring is reading townish. Not understanding the hate against her. It seems that it amounts to, "She wasn't here; therefore, she is scum." Don't know how I feel about her Sea vote, though.

Is it just me or do all of DGB's posts feel as if they're misrepresenting someone? It could just be the tunnel vision... >_>

Then DGB proceeds to talk about how she wasn't killed and how weird that is and how she's going to die tonight and yada yada yada. I don't like how she seems to believe the scum will want her dead. As I've already explained, her reads could be totally wrong. They could be hunting for PR's and not think she's one. Or maybe it's that she isn't seen as universally town. Or maybe she has town reads on some of the scummies. I really dislike all of the night kill speculation and what-not she's been throwing around. It does no good, and she should know that.

DGB's post #1074 is bad. She's had nearly two game days to realize this (because, ya know, it's mostly based on my one read's post), and she's only just now saying it. After repeatedly calling me scum. She proceeds to assert that I am town. I really, really, REALLY don't like.

---

So there! It's kind of a mixture of a catch-up and case (yes, I realize I was a bit tunnely against DGB, but oh well). Basically, I'm happy with a DGB or Piggy lynch today. I'm not liking how ready everyone is to lynch Sea. Keep that in mind for anyone who's ready to lynch her. The scum already lost one scum. They're going to be more careful now. Fast wagons are likely going to be on townies.

Reads (in no particular order under each section):

TOWN

Huntress
Spring
Eidolon

NULL-TOWN

Sucrose?

NULL

Amrun
Brandi
Sea
Fujiko

NULL-SCUM

Camn

SCUM

DGB
Piggy

[TraceyLyn11]

Tracey, I never post on my birthday. My b-day was oct 30th

My bad.

Suppose you know that I'm town. What does that make Sucrose and Seastorm?

It doesn't affect their alignments.

If camn moved off TL-town, towards Seastorm-scum, that would make her town at this point.

That doesn't make sense.

What do you mean? 985 doesn't repeat your post. It was just a brief statement of my thoughts on recent posts except for the part where I prompted DGB for an answer to my question. Why shouldn't I do that? I didn't even see your post until I previewed mine. I saw you had ninja'd me re: the question and so removed the quote which I originally had there, but left the prompt in as I check back through my posts in case stuff needs following up, so it's useful to have it there.

It kind of did repeat it...

Amrun's jump onto me was probably the most townish.

Amrun is looking townish but I disagree with her stance re: Sucrose and Tracy in post 963

and

Also nice sheep of Amrun. I don't think anyone noticed.

Piggy's was scummiest. Brandi's was next.

Not seeing the case against Tracy, maybe because nobody's actually made one? How about it Piggy? And Brandi?

and

Why'd you ignore this?

I'm still waiting for DGB's reply to my question at the bottom of post 958.

I had even said that Sucrose was seeming more townish after I'd been calling her scum for so long. Then:

I keep going up and down on Sucrose.

[TraceyLyn11]

Gah. RC, could you fix the quotes?

[TraceyLyn11]

Oh yeah. And you guys still need to answer my question about Piggy.

DGB, I asked you a question:

Because I'm fairly certain of my reads against them without re-reading. Hence my not saying that I would re-read them. Why do you identify them (and you) as townies?

[TraceyLyn11]

@Tracey: Did you forget the whole fake daykill thing? Yeah.

No? I didn't think it looked townish to begin with.

As a side note, there has been

so many

opportunistic votes on Sea's wagon. I'll actually be kind of surprised if a wagon happened that quickly and with that little objection and it turned up scum.

I think Piggy is hard to read, because she kinda has been on cruise since DGB has declared her town. There is nothing that is terribly scummy in her iso but nothing outstandingly town in it either.
I think if she is scum she is not scum with DGB, and is more likely scum cruising under her wind (as far as wifom goes that would actually make more sense to me). Unless in the very extreme scenario of Piggy being a PR DGB wanted to keep over Telo. But that's a remote possibility.

Well first, how is cruising under a town read NOT SCUMMY? SERIOUSLY? Hell, I'm confused why Amrun and Brandi aren't going after Piggy. DGB even derailed the Piggy wagon. GAH.

What do you mean Piggy being a PR?

springlullaby and DGB's back and forth looks like it's between two townies.

I admit I'd still like to see DGB's flip.

I don't even.

We can now safely assume that SStorm is town.

No freaking duh?

[TraceyLyn11]

If I happened to be killed tonight for whatever reason, seriously, do not let DGB or Piggy get to LyLo. I promise you one of them has to be scum - if not both.

[TraceyLyn11]

Where were you fighting for SStorm until about a minute ago?

I wasn't. But I thought the speed of the wagon was a strong indicator that she was town.

Obviously I was wrong.

VOTE: Spring

[TraceyLyn11]

WHOA. That's the forth scum. For some reason I thought Spring would only be third. This game ended quicker than expected.. Woohoooooo!

[TraceyLyn11]

What a great game, guys! Sorry my reads were so off. I still think my Piggy scumread made sense, but the DGB one was a bit due to me just having issues with people being considered confirmed town. It makes me feel like the rest of the town is missing something and that person is just sneaky scum. Ah well, fun game nonetheless! I wasn't too surprised about Spring, but I was fairly surprised about Amrun and Sea.

I'm just happy we didn't go through another day of this. I was getting fairly demotivated.

Any tips on how to improve my play? It'd be much appreciated!

Tracey, you underrate yourself far too much. I hope we see more of you in Coney Island and the Theme Park.

Thank you very much! I'm starting to get more used to non-newbie games, but I don't know if I'll ever get used to closed setups or themes (this one worked though, since it was a semi-open ). A bit too complicated for my taste.

[TraceyLyn11]

Oh! Thanks for a great game, RC, and thanks for inviting me to be a part of it. I'm glad I replaced in. I thought it'd be too big and it'd cause issues with real life, but I ended up handling it pretty well for the most part. I definitely don't regret it!