Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[Tammy]

/confirm

[Tammy]

All the ladies in the house make some NOISE!!!

VOTE: flinter

Pretty sure I wasn't done with my irrational tunnel from our last game

[Tammy]

All the ladies in the house make some NOISE!!!

VOTE: flinter

Pretty sure I wasn't done with my irrational tunnel from our last game

Sorry about that. I don't think I played very well that game. I tunneled quite a bit onto you as well, really couldn't believe you were town.

If we think each other scum again, shall we try to use short posts this game? It got a bit out of hand in the last one.

I didn't play well at either...seeing as how I basically lost the game for us . Deal though ...

-----

Meh Brandi's point on RVS is eh...In GvE, two of the scum team made stupid mistakes in RVS that helped me identify them in endgame. As in one voted his partners in two posts relatively close to each other and the other actually addressed both in one post. Some scum make stupid mistakes like that in RVS but it definitely doesn't apply to everyone or every game as any halfway experienced, aware scum isn't going to do this. And the post she linked to had Mastin explaining why scum were scummiest in every step of the game. How people act in RVS/Early game and what wagons they jump to are more telling most times than who they joke voted for on page two.

But, she's so overeager and insistent about it, that it just seems so genuine TOWN.

-----

DGB looks good for getting things moving and is

probably

town, but is most likely someone who is going to spike my paranoia for the remainder of our existences. HOWEVER, I think she's overestimating the PiggyGal situation who looks to me like a potential mislynch, but probably one I won't lose any tears over, except...

PiggyGal

In Post 32 you say you're always the day one mislynch when you're town, but then in Post 55 you say you only have one completed town game and don't have a meta, but then in Post 63 you talk about the beginning of the game as if you're associated with it and talk about how you can't get reads for several days. I'm facepalming right now. Can you explain to me why you are appealing to a meta at the same time that you are claiming you don't have one? Also, what do you think about the people voting for you right now?

-----

I do agree with the accusations, and I really dislike that she hasn't actually done anything about them, and that she hasn't moved her vote to try to actually hunt :/

This might have been a reasonable point if it had been some time, say a day or so, after Piggy's vote, but a couple of hours? It just looks opportunistic.

Vote: Seastormjt

Why didn't you have anything to say about the Piggy situation? This is literally your only post so far, and the Piggy thing was way more attention gathering than Seastorm. You don't have anything to say about it?

VOTE: Huntress

---------

I was just about to reconsider my vote when I realized I'm actually going on V/LA starting now until, like, the 2nd. I can check in to answer questions and stuff if the game keeps moving, but I'm going to be really busy for the next few days.

Why not? What does your V/LA have to do with your vote? Do you not like where it is? Do you feel uncomfortable just unmoving it for some reason?

-------

Intermission: Do y'all hear people's voices based on their avatars? Like Brandi sounds like smurfette to me, but Springlullaby has this really smooth sounding voice...kind of Demi Moore-ish but not so scratchy.

-------

Sucrose is most likely town.

-------

MathGirl - Yeah....both you and Seastorm have read the rules, right? You know the deadlines, right? I'm not going to do meta research to see if you and Sea have both finished a game here, but you both have start dates that suggest you have some experience with expectancies around here. I play at another site that has 32 hour days and crazy online expectancies, but I don't come here and suspect people for not conforming to what is expected at another site, so I'm not really sure where you're going with that. Yes, adjusting is strange sometimes, but it doesn't have anything to do with aggression and has to do with jumping on what is expected within reason.

MathGirl though strikes me as someone who has been criticized for her playstyle but feels the need to defend it. Overal TOWN.

-----

Another Intermission: Can we cool it on the buzzwords? I so rarely see them used properly that's it's rather annoying more than it's helpful.

-----

Telo

Why do you hate changing your vote on someone? What do you think about Piggy girl? Also, what are your thoughts about Huntress? Do you have any opinions on anything going on in the game so far?

-----

Amrun's leaning town

------

Not sure why Eidolon has a scum read on SpringLullaby. I don't think there's been enough of SpringLullaby to make a difference, but she's made a similar approach to Brandi that she made towards me in Heterosexual Revolution so it strikes me as a personality tell and a way she deals with others ideas rather than something that is alignment inidicative.

Eidolon

You say that you are voting SpringLullaby for ignoring the major wagons or what is going on. So what are your thoughts on Huntress or Telo who have both responded so far but haven't made a comment on the wagons?

-----

[Tammy]

I wonder why you say that my attack on spring is more of a personality than affiliation tell, yet you have your vote on huntress for essentially the same reason?

Eh, huntress and spring didn't do the same thing though. Huntress Posted in the midst of the wagoning of piggy when dgb was going after her pretty strongly. Huntress voted one of the people on the wagon for their jump on the wagon but made no comment on the wagon or piggy herself. While her point on sea storm was valid, it was also rather neutral, as she didn't have to make a judgment that would cost her anything, as her point is plain to see in the thread. However she avoided making a judgment on piggy herself which could cost her something.

Spring posted the next day, and didn't choose to take part in but at the same time ignore the piggy situation, she just ignored it all together and chose to focus on something else. I didn't say your attack on her is personality based, I said that I didn't understand why you find her suspicious. I don't think ignoring the piggy situation is suspicious and I don't think the way she's dealing with Brandi is suspicious. I think the way she's dealing with Brandi is a personality/playstle tell based on my experience with her interacting with me in a similar manner before as town. Besides, I think her bringing up another point of discussion is a good thing and don't think the point she brought up was insignifant especially considering its early day one.

Sorry.

[Tammy]

I probably won't be able to get a read on bunnylover, but iirc amrun can read her, so I'll just sheep that one.

[Tammy]

@Lyanna: Was it just the one game you played with her where she acted like that? Or do you know of others?

I have very limited experience with her. It was just that one game, and she replaced out so it's really the majority of what I have to work with, but the approach is similar and the voice is the same. Her interaction with you reads to me as someone trying to get a read rather than trying to assign you one though.

[Tammy]

And Telo is scum.

A definitive statement like that should be backed by action or it rings hollow.

[Tammy]

@Tammy, in rvs I go with my intuition. I like to make a guess at the start of every game and see if I'm right. Rather than keep moving my vote with the wind I leave it on the first person until I make my final decision. That can often take a while.
As far as my opinions on the game so far:
The piggy wagon raised a blip on my radar. In hunting I typically look for slips of the 'tounge' (fingers and mind when playing in a forum) lies, and misdirection. Jokes by their nature are funny because of those three things. But- joking is also sometimes just a part of a personality. It's a big part of mine so when I see a person who's a joker I make note to pay attention to what kind of joker they are. A social joker, a nervous joker, a person that makes jokes to misdirect.

Okay, so you are a newer player and a cautious voter, not alignment indicative.

What kind of blip on your radar did it have? What type of joker did you come to the conclusion that piggygirl was?

[Tammy]

mathgirl

What do you think about Telo? Oh, and huntress?

[Tammy]

What kind of blip on your radar did it have? What type of joker did you come to the conclusion that piggygirl was?

Unfortunately when you go to assess what type of joker another person is the mirror you hold them up against is usually your own. Since I really didn't get the duck part of the joke and I can't read the small writing (is there a way to magnify it?) I don't really know. It looks like it says psyduck but that makes no sense to me. She says it's a pokeman reference so it went over my head as I'm not familiar with pokeman I can't tell if the joke makes sense or if it's a misdirection.

It only served to confuse me and make me squint. In the next post she admits to sarcasm. Now that I get. I can't tell if the previous post was in fact sarcastic but I do know sarcasm is a defense mechanism. That's when I got my blip. After that she makes no more jokes so I can't give any more of a read than that.

If the jokes mean nothing to you, why go on about how jokes could be alignment relevant? What kind of Blip Are you referring to? In Post 145 you comment on people but not on piggy, why are you avoiding commenting on her?

You say that you got a blip when she was sarcastic because it's a defense mechanism. Are you saying this is scummy? Why can't you read her because she doesn't make any more jokes?

[Tammy]

Don't like camn's Post 153 as it feels like agreeing with dgb to lessen the suspicion already expressed. Also, the suspicion expressed against both piggygirl and city electric feels really weak and superficial. I doubt very seriously that piggy would be coaching her scum partners as if anything shed be the one in need of coaching. Piggy's entrance and posts were awkward, but there's no assessment beyond that, and it appears that she's just building reasons to sheep rather than to determine piggy's alignment.

Her points on city electric read just as bad. I'm not sure if she missed city electric saying that this is her first game out of newbie alley, but it seems rather odd to me that both of her scum reads are new players/people who will probably make themselves look worse if they try to defend themselves.

However, I know camn can analyze players better than this, so I'm even at a loss why scum camn would go after these two as they really look too easy and obvious.

[Tammy]

I always get a bit suspicious when people agree with me too much in a mafia game, and Sucrose's post 80, which mirrors my post 60, even to the use of similar wording (opportunistic/opportunism) near the end, is a case in point. The timeline of the posts is odd too:

Post 53, Seastorm votes Piggy
Post 60, I vote Seastorm
Post 63, Piggy replies to Seastorm
Post 64, Sucrose posts, not mentioning the above
Post 66, Seastorm replies to Piggy
Post 67, Piggy unvotes her self-vote
Posts 68and 69, Seastorm jokes with Piggy and says she was about to reconsider her vote
Two more posts, 70 and 73, by Sucrose, still not mentioning Seastorm.
post 74, Amrun votes Sucrose
post 75, camn votes Sucrose
And only then does Sucrose make her post 80 voting Seastorm. All in all, it looks like her vote is promted more by the attention she is getting from Amrun and Camn than actual suspicion of Seastorm.

Why didn't you have anything to say about the Piggy situation? This is literally your only post so far, and the Piggy thing was way more attention gathering than Seastorm. You don't have anything to say about it?

My vote on Seastorm

was

a comment on Piggy's wagon. I thought she was going for low-hanging fruit. Apart from Piggy herself there were only three votes on the wagon before Sea voted. DrippingGoofball's was at least partially a joke, Arun's could have been genuine but looked more like a reaction test, Brandi's could also have been genuine. In other words it looked like a normal randomish bandwagon to start the day. Seastorm's vote was different though. That's why it got my attention.

I've got a few more people to comment on but I've run out of time so they'll have to wait for tomorrow now.

Did you notice that sucrose's post 64 was two minutes after post 63 and referenced a post 20 posts before? You say she didn't comment in the few posts before, but is there any indication that she had gotten that far in her read and was intentionally ignoring it at that point?

Amrun votes her Thursday night and camn votes her Friday morning, it's Friday morning that sucrose comments/votes sea storm. If she was so worried by the pressure and needed to do something about it, why didn't she do it Thursday night?

And you may consider that your vote was a comment on the wagon, and in a way it was, but it's not really and you've still avoided commenting on it. You still have not commented on what you think about piggygirl and the wagon on her. You've said what you the each vote is, but that's not the same thing.

[Tammy]

@ Tammy: I never said the joke means nothing. The fact that she made the joke tells me -something- What I said was it went over my head. I don't know what psyduck (if that's what it says) means.
I also never said alignment relevant. That's not a term that I've ever used so you might be confusing me with someone else.
I didn't comment on piggy in 145 because I'd already commented on her and with so many players in the game I'm not going to get bogged down by just one. I also didn't comment on a bunch of other people. I have a lot more to scrutinize.

But yes, I do find sarcasm to be a defense mechanism which puts a blip on my radar however I'm not prepared to call piggy scummy until I'm ready to place a vote on her. I haven't seen nearly enough to determine that yet.

Did not say you used the term alignment-relevant. That was my term, However that was your meaning when you talked about the different types of jokes and what they would mean.

You never commented on piggy though, you talked about things around nd about her, but you didn't say what it means, which you yourself identify when you say you're not ready to call her scummy until you're ready to place a vote on her. How come you gave huntress a town read based on her one post, but you can't make a determination, even cursory, on piggy who has been one of the main topics of conversation and has at least 5 times as many posts?

[Tammy]

hmnm I am still catching up here, but the defense of Piggy by Telo is setting off alarms on my scumdar. Instead of focusing so much on defending Piggy why not focus on making a case on someone. I do understand you are not always at a computer when you post, but the last few responses in defense of Piggy seem a bit too much of dancing around the edges of something.

Where and how did Telo defend piggy?

[Tammy]

Tammy - Town read, although I wonder if you are purposefully leaving out the fact that you were scum in Heterosexual.

Wasn't relevant.

[Tammy]

Telo votes are good.

Based on Post 213 I know I won't lose any tears over a Piggy mislynch. I have no words.

[Tammy]

Votes or city electric based on her reactin to the dayvig are silly. Look at her start date and reaction to the vote then get back to me.

[Tammy]

Anyways, hey tammy, it's not just that she didn't understand, but she voted DGB instead of asked about it, and the reasoning for the vote seemed over justified, and a bit awkward.

Disagree. If you thought she didn't understand then you should know why it's a bad vote. Also, you didn't ask her about it and voted her, so why are you using her not asking DGB about it against her? I don't know how the reasoning for the vote seemed over justified, but I think this reasoning for the vote seems over justified.

I think the fact that she voted for DGB INSTEAD of ask her about it is a pretty strong town tell. She's new, newbscum tend to be nervous, and DGB has been active and aggressive, exactly the type of person that newbscum tend to not provoke and catch the attention of by voting. The fact that she came at her rather aggressively by pointing out that it was a fake, and in her eyes therefore lying, reads really town. Likewise does the utter confusion over being voted for it.

Regarding scum reads: Not a whole lot to go on atm, but Telo and Huntress. Also, Mathgirl dropped a bit due to lack of activity. The day I directed a question to her, she had been viewing the forum for a bit. Viewing the forum doesn't necessarily mean viewing the game, but not coming back is eh. She's been replaced now though so we'll see.

[Tammy]

I think DGB is probably town too, but I also know she can be very good as scum. ATM though she is really helpful for town so she goes in the town pile. I just do not see anyone, even a very experienced player doing the fake dayvig thingy as scum.

You don't? This makes no sense at all. You were in heterosexual revolution when my partner fake dayvigged (poisoned) your lover. I know you couldnt have forgotten this, because it was a pretty big deal and you offered to be lunched since you were going to die anyway. I know you can't have forgotten that.

[Tammy]

Prod-dodging. I doubt very seriously I'll get to this game tonight...i'll deal with it tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Acknowledging prod...many apologies.

Please don't anyone hammer. Telo needs to come in and claim if anything, and I'd like to catch up on the past week and post my thoughts.

[Tammy]

oh yeah he was scum wasn't he? But he did not fake dayvig he fake poisoned and then made a serious case that the poisoner could be town, while DGB admitted it was fake right away. TBH the main reason I still felt he was scummy was because he kept it up for so long and was so defensive about it. But it is a good point, I will keep my mind open on DGB.

I didn't say that to you to suggest you should keep your mind open, I was questioning your statement that scum would never fake dayvig, considering your experience with a scum fake day VIG.

I always say TBH for to be honest. it is a null tell. When I read it was after you did admit it was a fake. So it seemed almost immediate to me.

As for DTM's fake poisoning of my cop lover Action Dan, he kept it up for a very long time afterword. The only reason I finally knew it was fake, was cause Dan and I did not die that night, like he said we would. Plus he kept pushing that though poisoner is normally a scum role, that there are town poisoners too and even found a link or two.

Again, the poisoning thing doesn't matter and it doesn't matter how long it took before you found out versus how quickly this one came out. The point was you using that to reason a town read based on information you know to not be true, ie scum would never fake dayvig.

[Tammy]

Eh, I've refused to claim before as scum, but DDP refused to claim as town in mafia behind the maiden so eh.

Without a great claim, Telo still a good lynch but not yet, I'm still like 8pages behind.

[Tammy]

Oh gods...sometime I think I've seen or read or gotten into the dumbest mafia argument ever, and then I read stuff like the spring/Brandi debate about periods and being away or whatever and I realize there is always dumber...

[Tammy]

I went and double checked the front page and yes it appears that scum have daytalk. Sorry I missed that in the first read. However I still feel pretty confident about my read on Telo. Especially her reaction after I voted her.

Why are you saying I'm sorry I missed tha in my first read? I double checked and don't see you questioning the idea beforehand?

[Tammy]

#299 How is tbh a scumtell?

Glork says it is.

Glork's a scum tell.

[Tammy]

...don't mind me...I'm 10 apparently.

[Tammy]

amrun

What's your read on bunnylover?

[Tammy]

oh hey, btw. since there's daytalk, if telo flips scum, it's probable that her partners are bussing. otherwise, they would have told her what to say in response to pressure. the fact that she's just not really saying anything means someone thinks they are getting away with bussing her..... they are more likely to bus hard than softly in this instance. if i end up dying, look at hard bussers please

I play at another site in which we always have daytalk and I don't really find this to be true. There might be some advice but I don't notice that much of a difference in the way people bus or interact on threads sometimes.

[Tammy]

No. Mom not done reading and haven't posted my thoughts. No hammers.

[Tammy]

^^^ that should say I'm not mom..I have m idea...damn autocorrect.

[Tammy]

That's okay sucrose...I just wanted to get my thoughts down before the day ended. My being gone for a week doesn't give me high expectations for dying so it's not that bit a deal.

Still I'm going to spam a little so I can post what I want to post before the thread gets locked.

Current town reads:

DGB - Probably...though she seems like a good player, who will spark paranoia, not gonna deal with that now.
City Electric - Her response to the fake dayvig read incredibly genuine as did her reaction to getting voted for it.
Eidolong- that daytalk bus thing felt really genuine even if I don't agree

[Tammy]

I'm feeling better about Huntress after her post regarding Camn and looking at the votes on the Telo wagon. She's still in my need to look at further, but I liked that.

Camn's striking me in a really weird way. Her "daytalk/coaching" think felt like she was trying to put forward a "I'm such a clever town look at what I'm doing" type thing and it didn't feel very genuine at all. Some things strike me as slightly town, but not very strongly.

Rachmarie is a pretty strong scum read right now. She seems to be saying things just to be saying things and agrees with people too readily. The "I don't think scum would fake dayvig" as part of her reasoning for giving DGB a town read read off especially in light of the fact that she has experience with a scum fake dayvig. When I brought that up, she was like, "Good point, I'll keep my mind open". Reads to me as too agreeable with whatever opinions/or perceived opinions are floating by at the moment.

[Tammy]

Seastorm - I wall in between smaller posts as either alignment...it's a complete null tell from me.

I had an earlier leaning scum read on springlullaby as in Post 177 she gives me a town read but then gives herself an out concerning my potential leaving out my alignment in a game referring to her behavior. My alignment was irrelevant to the conversation, so it seems odd that she uses that and appears to be setting an early stage to reneg on that read. Which makes sense for post Post 330 in which she says I don't follow up on question (doesn't specify which ones so leaves that up in the air) then accuses me of constant white-knighting. Now other than me being an incredibly self-absorbed person this strikes me as off, because springlullaby has been around long enough to account for different playstyles yet doesn't account for it. Her argument with Brandi as well struck me as off as Brandi seemed like someone who gets a bit emotional and is therefore more likely to say things that don't make sense which scum would exploit if they could. She needs to be watched out for. Also, if there was concern enough over my actions, she should have engaged me the way she did brandi to try to determine my alignment. (Also, if SL is town, she will be the first town to ever accuse me of white-knighting...I have gotten that accusation from scum before but never from town.)

[Tammy]

Tammy IMO Rach is just a very agreeable person. I think that might be null.
I mean I just get that feel from her all over the site in general.

Could be, but I only really apply to meta that I have personal experience with.

[Tammy]

Earlier I thought that Piggy seemed like a definite mislynch and that her reaction to the dayvig seemed rather noobtown. But, I'm not convinced anymore and I think that anyone writing her off shouldn't. She, since the fake dayvig, doesn't seem as new as she did before hand therefore not as naive. Also, since we now know there's daytalk, that could have been a fake reaction. Basically, I don't like what seemed like a meek start that has turned into a confident, I'm the boss type persona.

[Tammy]

Oh yeah, Brandi's a pretty good town read as well. She reads to me as someone who says things without thinking, which leaves things open for others to jump on because there are leaps in logic. It doesn't make her scum at all, it just makes her easily exploitable. She seems to be a bit of an emotional player which is often exploitable as well. Some of her arguments don't make sense, but that doesn't make her scum.

[Tammy]

Buh...I'm not commenting on anyone else. There are a bunch of newbie types in this game and it take a little longer to read them. They do and say things that seem scummy but really aren't but are easily exploitable. If I thought I was actually dying I might post more, but since that's unlikely, I'm going to bed.

Telo was a good lynch regardless...Camn said in a post about her that regardless of her alignment she was a decent lynch and that's exactly what I felt/feel about Piggy.

[Tammy]

VOTE: rachmarie.

I don't agree that bunnylover was killed due to the fujiko thing as she was a small voice. I figured she was more likely to be a VIG kill due to,suspicion on her.

Partially agree with the sentiment of dgb on the late bussing wagon, and if that's true would look at sucrose first as her vote felt a bit off. It was almost as if she voted just to be seen on the wagon. Amrun would have been the hammer, but removed the vote for me to post before it got locked do to me wanting to post my thoughts. There really was no reason to hammer right then when we knew Telo would be the lynch, so eh.

I'm very sorry amrun by the way.

More thoughts later...bed now.

[Tammy]

@ Huntress How can you be sure that is their only PR? We don't even know how many scum there are in this game? We can guess based on the size of the game, but it is a guess not a for sure know.

I can't see this as anything other than feigning ignorance in light of:

I went and double checked the front page and yes it appears that scum have daytalk. Sorry I missed that in the first read. However I still feel pretty confident about my read on Telo. Especially her reaction after I voted her.

In order to get to the information in the first scum pm in which it makes it clear there is daytalk, you have to get past the setup information in which it clearly states how many scum there are and the structure of the scum team.

[Tammy]

I went and double checked the front page and yes it appears that scum have daytalk. Sorry I missed that in the first read. However I still feel pretty confident about my read on Telo.

Especially her reaction after I voted her.

When you're answering DGB's question Rach, please explain what reaction of Telo's made you feel especially confident in your vote on her.

[Tammy]

But, she's indicating that she did read it...more than once. She said she missed it on her first read through, so read it again. You don't have to read all the way through to get that either. It's in the first box above the pm you would have to read to find there was day talk. Not only that, but it was in the sign up thread.

[Tammy]

Well actually, yes. I don't have a good memory, so I often have to look back at my reads even when I'm town.

I don't really believe in scum slips, but the "even when I'm town" bit has me feeling twitchy.

Tracey's recent posts are frustrating and we don't need to know how many iso's you have left to do, so stopping it with the updates would be nice. Scum often do this so that town will think they're being townie and working. But, scum, especially newbscum tend to be a bit more compliant. Tracey has to realize she's raised alarms and instead of giving her reads is going nope! and is continuing with the fluff reminders. It's usually a slight town tell, though could be personality. Reserving judgment until her iso reads are out.

Rachmarie looked somewhat genuine in her recent posts, waiting on the info she promised as well. Will probably move to the apocalyptica wagon depending.

[Tammy]

Tracey - I assume your doing a read on everybody and that's what's taking so long. Why do you feel the need to do a read of everyone?

[Tammy]

You mean BunnyHunter? CityElectric was killed on her own, BH probably died saving someone. My guess would be either camn - or Huntress - since they're both leading town.

Do you have a town read on Camn? If so, mind telling me why?

[Tammy]

Alright guys, I have a suggestion:

We have 6 days left. We also have a vig. What I suggest is that we ferret out scum like normal, going to L-1, only instead of lynching, we get a claim, then move on to our next suspect as if it were the next day. At night, the vig should hit the first suspect if they're a claimed VT, (unless they really believe her). It's essentially two lynches for the price of one. Yes, this

is

more likely to make scum fakeclaim PR roles, but since we know the number of PR's, those will blow up on them in the end, and will almost certainly blow up on them before LyLo.
What I'm really afraid of is one of our other two real PR's getting accidentally vigged, which is the biggest risk with a vig, and could be devastating for town.

If anyone has any objections to this plan that I've overlooked, please state them.

Personally, I'd like one of them to be Apokalyptika. Nothing she's said has moved my radar off of "mildly scummy" and I'm very ehhhh about the Tracey wagon. It just doesn't seem strong enough to lynch over.

I don't see how this would work. I just looked at the vig role pm and it doesn't say that they can choose one person each night like the other pms say; it just says during the night. That would lead me to believe that they're a one shot. I don't really agree with this strategy anyway as it seems like it could cause too many problems.

[Tammy]

Tracey - I assume your doing a read on everybody and that's what's taking so long. Why do you feel the need to do a read of everyone?

The biggest reason is because my reads from my initial read through and my reads through everyone's ISO's have not been coming up the same. I'm doing this as much for your all's sake as my own. I've never been in a game this large, and it's a bit daunting to remember everyone let alone what alignment I think they are. There's those few that just stood out to me, but I stress

few

. The large majority fell into, "Wait... What were they again? Why in the world did I think that?"

Everyone works differently, but there really isn't a need to do a read on everybody on day two of a large game. Giving your strongest reads on a few people is sufficient, you could keep the others you're still working on in a draft or something.

[Tammy]

No I'm with dgb on this one. Sucrose is town.

[Tammy]

Okay, made it through Tracey's wall if only because I'm a waller myself and hate it when people don't read what I write. Tracey's town. Her thoughts about people read town and she didnt feel the need to go into reasons why a couple of her town reads were town, sure they're not controversial town reads but still. If she's scum here she has a talent for not shallow reading which a lot of experienced scum don't have. Her reads read in depth in a way I really only expect from town.

[Tammy]

First, I read my personal employee evaluation to get a sense of how well TL reads people. Not very well is the answer. Of course I knew there is no dayvig. There's never any dayvig.

[Tammy]

Dayvig: TraceyLyn11

amidoinitrite?

UNVOTE:

[Tammy]

There's no dayvig...weren't you assuming there was?

[Tammy]

camn is town cause it's camn and there can only be 3 scum left, and she doesn't fit in the pool.

Pretend you're a salesman, and I'm arguing that she doesn't fit in the town pool. Sell me on why she does, because if I wasn't so ready to lynch rachmarie, camn would be the one I'd be pushing right now.

[Tammy]

I thought you said you read my wall, Tammy.

I did read your wall. It's also close to bed time and less likely for me to catch a joke like that.

[Tammy]

First, she promises reads and never delivers (nor brings it up again, actually).
From the time of her vote to the time of the hammer she didn't question Telo at all. She didn't push her. She didn't interact with her at all.
She didn't have those, "She's scum, guise" reads. She had, "I think she's scum, but she did do this, so I could be wrong" type of reads.

Hey, this

is

good. RM is scum, we're lynching her.

VOTE: RachMarie

Maybe I have brain damage right now but I really don't see what's a scumtell in this post. ><

Go back and read rach she was soft pushing. It was always I'm good with my vote ATM but didn't really push it. lthough I will say if rach is town here, camn is white knighting...and I'm using a buzz word nd should go to bed.

[Tammy]

@Tammy: I commented on DGB's fake dayvig several times in my wall. Not to mention you can jus see from my making that post that I have read the entire thread. That being said, why would I fall for a fake dayvig when one had already been done (by the same person no less) earlier in the thread?

I have no idea that's why I was confused.


So, then why did you unvote?

[Tammy]

2- push away, you dont have it in you.

please tell me this is referring to me. Because you've only seen me as scum, you've never seen me as town with a scum read...or you'd know "don't have it in you" don't live here.

[Tammy]

Not liking the sucrose wagon that's springing up.

I just reread through Telo and apoka's slot and rach. Still have a scum read on rach though there are some things that read a bit genuine. Someone brought up the different ways that Telo treated rach and apoka in the way she demanded proof from apoka's slot but ignored rach. I'm starting to be of a mind that this makes it more likely that shes partners with apoka over rach. I can see newbscum being a bit too nervous to confront town, but perfectly content to confront her partner who probably gave her a heads up and told her to interact with her. If rach read more town to me, this would be the scenario I would think was most likely.

Even though some of rach's posts read genuine, I just can't get to town for her. I would really like to know what reaction of telo's made rach feel so much more comfortable about her vote in Post 382. It has nothing to do with her not being warmed up yet, but with her saying things that don't fit with the game or experience and promising to do things that never come and not answering questions addressed to her.

Agree with dgb on Post 758 in that I liked that post to a degree of camn's. My main problem with camn is a lack of real scumhunting. She's calling people scum, but it more looks like who she can get lynched rather than who is scum. I'm just not getting a sense that she's trying to honestly determine people's alignments.

Also agree on the bussing issue with Telo. If I had been her partner and saw how she was playing, I'd have bussed that quick and early. Also, most people are going to think there wouldn't be early bussing because of her being the only pr and people often bank on that.

[Tammy]

She does indeed. I'm trying to figure out if it's likely for both rachmarie and apoka to be mafia.

[Tammy]

VOTE: Apokalyptika

The slot keeps getting passed around, and everyone in it is inactive. We need to get something more from it.

I'm still not entirely thrilled with RachMarie, especially post 588, but I can see how it could have been forgetfulness/confusion. Also, I've now played in two games with her, and this feels a bit more like the town one than the scum one - higher activity level.

I don't with the last exchange with TraceyLyn. The reason I'm not voting her is that the defensiveness exhibited there could be a personality tell, rather than a scum tell. (That said, I am waiting for her list of reads.)

So, you've played with her as scum before and she had a lower activity level than this?

[Tammy]

We're lynching RachMarie for claimstall, for those that don't get it.

8 to lynch

701 - RachMarie (3) (Tammy - Apokalyptika - Huntress) = L-5
710 - DGB votes RachMarie = L-4
711 - TraceyLyn votes RachMarie = L-3
717 - DGB - "You're at L-2. Claim time"
722 - Piggy votes RachMarie = L-2
724 - TraceyLyn unvotes RachMarie = L-3
738 - camn - "RACHMARIE- CLAIM OR DIE"
740 - RachMarie's last post - "Am I at L-1 with an intent to hammer??? I have no problem claiming at that point."

I'm okay with her not claiming under these circumstances - I wouldn't have, personally.

Why wouldn't you have claimed?

[Tammy]

I'm having the opposite reaction to camn's latest posting than huntress. She's starting to head nullify for me.

[Tammy]

So, I was thinking about Rachmarie and reading through her again, and I can't get to town at all, and if town won't be sorry at the mislynch either. I realize she says that RL is kicking her ass, well it's kicking mine too and I've still been able to comment on the game or people or do what I've said I'm going to do. Let's recap Rach's day two play shall we?

I voted and pushed Telo because I thought she was scum.

I am going to look at her wagon and juxtapose it with mine. See if I can find Telo's buddies.

Defends herself against the bussing accusation and enacts what looks like feigned ignorace. Fine, but what's important is she says she's going to look at her wagon and her own and find Telo's buddies or at least try to. How has that come along?

I was focusing on the daytalk part not reading the whole thing with ALL of the potential roles etc. BTW I did re read just that part carefully a couple of hours ago. There are TWO PRs one which is chosen at random from a long list of possibles, and the GM.

I would be happy to provide links to scum games if you would like. Bah ya all are so off base here.

Ok back to do what I planned to do and hopefully that answers DGB's questions and others.

Defends herself from the feigned ignorance accusation and says she's back to finding Telo's buddies...Does she?

RL has been keeping me swamped... (just published a book woot0.

Tracey I know you are a wall type person, but why do you have to do ALL of them at the same time? Why not do them in groups? Like part 1, part 2, etc.

I have to admit it is pinging my scumdar with the must wait til ALL are done...

Doesn't have time to do what she said she was going to do, but has time to stop in and criticize Tracey for not posting her reads. Soft-pushing and parroting the others who have raised suspicion about it. But doesn't vote. She hasn't voted at all today. We're four days away from deadline, she's the leading wagon, and she gives us this:

Am I at L-1 with an intent to hammer??? I have no problem claiming at that point.

Why is everyone seeing my push on Telo as bussing WTF? If I were scum I would have not jumped on her wagon so early and I would have jumped OFF MUCH sooner, or I would have slipped on much later when it was super clear that she was going to be lynched no matter what.

Nothing but more defenses, doesn't do what she said she was going to do and refuses to claim until she's at L-1. I realize that some people do this and it's a bit of a playstyle preference, but I've never seen it benefit town. And quite frankly, maybe I'd understand it from a more active player, but I can't understand it in this situation. Rachmarie barring some unexpected event is going to be the lynch today, so she's basically at L-1 for all intents and purposes. Sure a couple of wagons have sprung up as a counter, but haven't gained any real traction. I can't find the town motivation in any of this.

[Tammy]

I don't read others meta, but thank you. I only really use meta I have personal experience with as anything else is really misleading.

As far as claiming early, eh. I've claimed before a single vote has been on me before when I thought it was I the best interest of the town to do so. Some people didnt agree, but I still stand by why I did it. I've also claimed when a wagon was building before to stop it, so there really isn't much of a prescription of when you should. There are play styles but you also have to take into account the game state. If there's a possibility there's going to be a wagon not yours, then yes, maybe hold back, but if every indication is that you will be lynched, holding out until l-1...I just don't see the point.

[Tammy]

Not Voting

(4) (RachMarie - Amrun - Brandi - Seastormjt)

[/list]

Really really likely at least one scum is here.

[Tammy]

So, we're effectively being hamstrung by rach not showing up in the thread. Awesome. Also, I was thinking about this kea of her "how dare you think I was bussing Telo" it actually reads completely counter to the questions we e asked her about her day one play that she hAs completely refused to answer. This is not town play. Anyone not voting Rachel at this point...I'd like to know why.

[Tammy]

You weren't?

[Tammy]

Personally I'm pretty confident that Bunnylover was the scum kill, and City Electric was the Vig.

Why is that?

This is a pretty bad conversational role to go down. I think Bunny was the one killed by scum, and we should investigate from there. Unless you disagree.

.

Then I misread this coupled with your plan.

[Tammy]

Oh should read the whole page...this has already been covered.

[Tammy]

Also, I'm not buying amrun hiding her alignment behind real life issues. I have a null read on amrun right now, but not jumping to scum because of that.

[Tammy]

Also, I'm not buying amrun hiding her alignment behind real life issues. I have a null read on amrun right now, but not jumping to scum because of that.

She's done it before, though. She can't be trusted with that anymore.

But using a death in the family? That kind of thing will distract you no matter your alignment.

[Tammy]

YYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

:dancingbanana:

Great job guys! Oh my gods mala you were awesome! And fujiko too...well all of you were!

Love it in the qt spring saying that my white knighting and diffusing the tension in the town was bad. The way that some of my more recent games have been infused with my own emotions being a distraction for town, it was just really nice for me to play a more relaxed game and get some sense of my earlier playstyle back.

Thank you for running the game red coyote! It was awesome! And it was really awesome playing with each of you; I look forward to playing with each of you again sometime

Sorry camn and huntress for my early suspicion, especially huntress cause I was confirmation biasing you to the end in the qt. Also sorry to rach, again, for your mislynch.

[Tammy]

Tammy ever time I kept reading your posts I kept thinking "Damn I want to hydra with you". Your play was amazing and always is!

Awe! thank you! Just let me know when you want too! It would be fun.