Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[Huntress]

/confirm

[Huntress]

The twelve plus three is referring to the previous game, not this one.

[Huntress]

I do agree with the accusations, and I really dislike that she hasn't actually done anything about them, and that she hasn't moved her vote to try to actually hunt :/

This might have been a reasonable point if it had been some time, say a day or so, after Piggy's vote, but a couple of hours? It just looks opportunistic.

Vote: Seastormjt

[Huntress]

I always get a bit suspicious when people agree with me too much in a mafia game, and Sucrose's post 80, which mirrors my post 60, even to the use of similar wording (opportunistic/opportunism) near the end, is a case in point. The timeline of the posts is odd too:

Post 53, Seastorm votes Piggy
Post 60, I vote Seastorm
Post 63, Piggy replies to Seastorm
Post 64, Sucrose posts, not mentioning the above
Post 66, Seastorm replies to Piggy
Post 67, Piggy unvotes her self-vote
Posts 68and 69, Seastorm jokes with Piggy and says she was about to reconsider her vote
Two more posts, 70 and 73, by Sucrose, still not mentioning Seastorm.
post 74, Amrun votes Sucrose
post 75, camn votes Sucrose
And only then does Sucrose make her post 80 voting Seastorm. All in all, it looks like her vote is promted more by the attention she is getting from Amrun and Camn than actual suspicion of Seastorm.

Why didn't you have anything to say about the Piggy situation? This is literally your only post so far, and the Piggy thing was way more attention gathering than Seastorm. You don't have anything to say about it?

My vote on Seastorm

was

a comment on Piggy's wagon. I thought she was going for low-hanging fruit. Apart from Piggy herself there were only three votes on the wagon before Sea voted. DrippingGoofball's was at least partially a joke, Arun's could have been genuine but looked more like a reaction test, Brandi's could also have been genuine. In other words it looked like a normal randomish bandwagon to start the day. Seastorm's vote was different though. That's why it got my attention.

I've got a few more people to comment on but I've run out of time so they'll have to wait for tomorrow now.

[Huntress]

In post 46, Brandi voted Piggy based on a meta check of a single game which didn't really bear out her claim of long/weird posts as scum. She was fourth on that wagon, or third if you don't count Piggy's self-vote. Then when the wagon on Piggy starts to break up she hops on to the next one citing Sucrose's post on Seastorm. In post 88, she says that Seastorm's answer was insufficient but doesn't say what more she wants to know. Time will tell but I'm getting a scum-vibe here.

I agree with Brandi that the discussion on the value of an RVS belongs in MD, not here, but I do have a question about the following:

Spring, there was a direct question regarding RVS and it ending early as well as it's merits.
A player landed a vote becaues of such.
I was giving reasoning as to why it was a legitimate and understandable stance, because I had that opinion as well.
Now I did not say that it made DGB scum, though- just that the reasoning could make sense.

By this, are you saying that you think the reasoning for Sucrose's vote on DrippingGoofball was valid for a vote? I'm asking this in view of the fact that in post 112 you said that it did not appear to be a joke vote to you, that you took it seriously. Just looking for a yes or no answer here at the moment.


Still catching up,

[Huntress]

Soooo reads time. It's never too early for reads. It's just that these reads will change over the course of a game. Especially the first readspost. I fully expect every single one of my reads to be completely wrong. Even if the

are

mostly null.

This feels slightly scummy. As if she's trying to cover herself for later. I get the same feeling from her read of Brandi.

First thing that's popped out from these four pages is piggygal15. I really want her to come online and answer the questions posed at her. Can we ignore her intro post though? It's pretty obviously a joke, but she hasn't been responding well to any pressure after that.

What questions? There hadn't really been anything addressed to Piggy since she last posted before this.

I want to say Brandi is overwhelming town, but she speaks with enough experience that I'd expect her to be good at hiding herself if she were scum. I'll have to reserve judgement on her alignment until a few people have flipped, but I see her as someone who's leading the town. This could be a good or bad thing, and I can't tell yet. Also also also, I'd be really intrigued to see those statistics about RVS. In my experience, scum is caught more often when people slip up during discussion and not any RVS slipups.

Encouraging theory discussion after Brandi had said this was not the time for it.

@ Mathgirl: Why did you hide your reads in a spoiler? Also please note that small text, besides being difficult to read, is against the rules of this game, and many other games on the site too.

----------------------------------------------------

Right now, my biggest scum read is springlullaby. She votes brandi because she was talking about RVS. Spring, does talking about theory make someone scum? She completely ignored the wagon dynamics that are going on, or anything else that has happened in the game so far, to vote on something insignificant.

I don't think it was just about the theory, but rather because she thought it was fake, which would not be insignificant. It looked to me as if Brandi's raising the point initially could well have been a diversion tactic.

Rather, Springy was avoiding taking a stance on the larger issues in the thread to focus on fake scumhunting. Saying that brandi talking about theory, which is useless, does NOT make her scum. Which means that springy was picking on something just because it gave her something to talk about. Her attempt at scumhunting was fabricated.

So you're basing your read on Spring on your read on Brandi's action?

@ Eidolon: In a game of eighteen players, do you think that all eighteen need to take a stance on everything/just the major issues, or is it all right for some to look elsewhere? Particularly in view of the fact that who people looked at can be telling later on, after getting some flips.

Apart from the above, I'm getting a generally town read on Eidolan.

---------------------------------------------------------

@ Fujiko: Is Eidolon still your top scum read? What did you make of her reply to your post 102?

---------------------------------------------------------

Flinter's posts 118 and 120seems odd coming from someone with 530 game posts to their name. I'm going to have to do a meta read there.

On flinter: Said almost exactly what I was thinking and placed a vote on camn. I'll be following to see if our thinking stays in tuned.

Can you expand on this a bit please? I can understand how the interactions or lack of them may prove interesting later after a flip, but how do they justify a vote now, at the point in the Day when Flinter voted?

-------------------------------------------------------------

@ DrippingGoofball: How are RL excuses a scumtell?



I forgot to do this the other day:

Vote: Sucrose

Up to post 150.

[Huntress]

Did you notice that sucrose's post 64 was two minutes after post 63 and referenced a post 20 posts before? You say she didn't comment in the few posts before, but is there any indication that she had gotten that far in her read and was intentionally ignoring it at that point?

Maybe that one is understandable but the others were over a wider period. My main concern was that Sucrose's post just copied mine taking no account of interactions between Seastorm and Piggy since then.

Amrun votes her Thursday night and camn votes her Friday morning, it's Friday morning that sucrose comments/votes sea storm. If she was so worried by the pressure and needed to do something about it, why didn't she do it Thursday night?

Because one vote doesn't constitute "pressure"? And it's possible she didn't see that first vote until after the second had been placed anyway.

And you may consider that your vote was a comment on the wagon, and in a way it was, but it's not really and you've still avoided commenting on it. You still have not commented on what you think about piggygirl and the wagon on her. You've said what you the each vote is, but that's not the same thing.

I did comment on the wagon, in the very post you are responding to. As for Piggy I had a null read on her. That's more of a town read now in the light of her reaction to the fake dayvig.


In post 162, RachMarie accuses Telo of "focusing so much on defending Piggy". But when asked to explain this she only mentions a couple of posts where Telo does not comment on Piggy. From this and one or two other things I'm getting a scummy vibe here.

What is terrible about it?
Scum get nervous and coach all the time! And its one of the very few early tells I think are reliable!

Why would scum need to coach in thread when they have daytalk?

RL excuses is beating the critics to the punch with a pity party The player betrays a lack of confidence in their current and future performance. They come up with unverifiable excuses and sad stories about having no keyboard and whatnot to shield themselves from scrutiny.

Or they could be just telling the truth. I see it as a null tell unless there is reason to believe otherwise.

And, while rereading, there is the thing that I see too many scum. Huntress would be my best bet at the moment, I really don't like her 154.

What didn't you like about it?

Reading meta, noticed a contradiction. shows she's actually voting based off her own reasoning. townish.

Do you think basing a meta on a single game is townish? Especially in this case where a comparison would be called for.


Currently leaning scum in varying degrees on the following:

Brandi
Camn (Although I don't agree with some of the points made about her)
Flinter
Fujiko
MathGirl277/Katty Bard
RachMarie
Seastormjt
Sucrose

[Huntress]

Huntress, that's a lot of scum... who's your top read?

Brandi and Sucrose, though that may change when I've taken a closer look at some of the others.

Yeah, that makes sense. Though, I skimmed through a lot of her games and it seemed she had replaced in to most past the first post stage, so no type of similar post to refer to.
Regardless, I think bacongirl is town.

No similar post. Yet you originally voted her quoting that meta. Why was that?

[Huntress]

But you didn't have evidence that she didn't do the same thing as town, so you couldn't call it a scum tell, yet you voted her for it.

[Huntress]

Vote: Brandi

Fairly happy with this now pending a meta read.

Do scum have daytalk or something?

I think you know they do.

[Huntress]

Um, pretty sure they don't.
I just checked the first page and CTRL+F "daytalk"
and no where does it say scum have daytalk.

It's in the role PMs in the 2nd post:

You may contact your partners in the Backroom at all times, regardless of the phase the game is in.

[Huntress]

Actually I'm pretty jumbled now.
I honestly didn't know scum had daytalk.

It's been mentioned before in the thread. That's why Piggy isn't conf town. But I think she's probably town.

[Huntress]

@ DGB: If post 370 refers to post 369 then I can see your point about Brandi. I didn't find much from my meta read on her apart from the fact that her self-proclaimed town meta doesn't match up with her behaviour in this game, and that she has played more in the past than just in her year of joining, which is what she claimed earlier. Pretty confident she isn't scum with Sucrose anyway so I may move my vote back there, except that I agree with most of Sucrose's post 393 so I'll hold fire on that for a bit.

Unvote

I need to review Telo and people's cases on her but I can't see myself voting there unless I see something I've missed.

@Flinter: I'm still waiting for a reply to the question I asked you earlier.

@ Fujiko: Is your vote on Telo purely for pressure, or do you have a case on her?

Up to post 408.

[Huntress]

Huntress, why were you voting Sucrose again?

The reason for my vote was explained in post 154 and clarified a little in post 313. I haven't seen anything else about her that concerns me yet.

(Huntress, Math likely spoilered her reads for the same reason I'm spoilering this, the forum we came from frowns on text walls.)

If you feel your post is too long you can always split it into two, but spoilers are for things like additional data, not for the main text of a post which should be on show, not hidden.

Still don't like Huntress, I feel like she's not really following through with her questions and she's speaking more to say things.

There's a couple of things I haven't had time to follow up on. Did you have anything particular in mind? And yes, I do speak to say things; it's better than speaking to say nothing.

@Huntress: Uh, you managed to find games I played in that I haven't been able to find?

Just click on the view topics link on your profile. They're all there.

[Huntress]

Hi TraceyLyn and Apokalyptika! And beware of those cookies!

So we give her a chance to respond and then hammer her....

At this point I am very comfortable with where my vote is. She has just flailed more and more while giving no content to how she feels about the other players. That seems very scummy in my book.

So you're not interested in Telo's responses? You just want her hammered whatever she says? And as for content on other players, she's given as much as, or more than, you have.

Nearly finished my review of Telo and not liking some of the votes on her, but then I'm not liking some of her posts either so I need to work that one out.

[Huntress]

@ Tracey: Definitely the latter

@ Huntress

No I meant we need to let her speak BEFORE someone hammers. And that I still feel she is scum. Her recent posts definitely do not feel at all town like. For example, even if she has trouble with multiple tabs on her nook, she could at least give us SOME idea of her reads on others. Instead she states she can't possibly give any content til she gets to her computer. So I doubt she will say anything that makes me feel she is not scum. It is still a remote possibility that I am wrong about her, but very remote.

I know that's what you meant. But we also need time to respond to her responses and I got the impression from your post that you were encouraging a hammer before we had a chance to do that. Remember we're not all in the same time zones. It's exasperating that she's left it so late in the day but unfortunately that's not necessarily a scum-tell. (Although if the fake dayvig hadn't already been used I would have been sorely tempted by her taunting posts.)

I disagree with Camn's post 470, apart from the request for reads. I think we do need responses from her. Especially don't like the line repeated in post 472 which is encouraging a relatively new player to break rules. I'm trying to decide whether Camn would say that if she really thought that Telo was scum, or if she knows it's safe as she knows Telo is town. Actually, it could even be a bus.

I'm in a bit of a quandary here as having reread Telo's posts and the points made against her I'm itching to say what I think of some of the cases but I also want to wait to hear from Telo first as I'm not happy with some of her posts myself. Camn's case in particular is misleading and I don't like that Flinter cast a bandwagon vote apparently based purely on that case, nor do I like the fact that Tracy seems to be quite happy to let the vote ride.

Telo's posts that I have a problem with are:
post 192, it's bad, but I'm not sure why she would write this as scum either.
post 217, The first part of this referring to 130 just doesn't make sense. It's a disconnect and with scum daytalk available such disconnects are concerning, rather than just puzzling.
post 238 and post 247, these are the ones that look most scummy to me. The timing, and the comment about not having an answer after quite a short time, seems a bit contrived.

[Huntress]

How is it 'misleading'???
Its all cited. Show me which part is misleading!
If you disagree with some point... show me where.

I don't want to say too much as I want to see Telo's response before I go into detail but this is the sort of thing I'm getting at:

Let us look at her ISO:

Her first 5 posts? NOTHING. Fluff, totally. no content.
POst 6- real life excuses.
post 7- nothin.. Maybe a spark of life? Nope.

Posts 1 and 2 in her ISO were asking a question and acknowledging the reply. These were still in the confirmation stage so of course would have no game content.
Post 3 was her random vote posted immediately after RC's "game on" post. The vote was all the content possible at the time. How could you expect more when there had been exactly zero other game posts?
Posts 4 and 5 refer to RM so not fluff.
Post 6 contains early game content replying to one player and mentioning three others so not simply "real life excuses".
Post 7 is a comment on DGB's statement about her; saying "it rings hollow"; so that wasn't nothing either.
And so it goes on.

This misrepresentation and the dismissive tone in which you deliver it looks like you are more interested in pushing a lynch than you are in making a genuine case.

[Huntress]

Cause you're obv town and not at L-1 so its DGB getting a town read, not white-knighting.

Why do you think Tracy is obv town?

[Huntress]

Why can't Huntress get a town read on someone at L-1?

I don't actually have a town read on Telo. It's more of a mild scum read for the reasons I gave in post 479. I just feel

very

uneasy about some of those pushing the wagon. And I didn't like the fact they were holding her access problems against her.

Scum reads at present in approximate order are:
Camn
RachMarie
Flinter/Tracey
Fujiko

Telo
MathGirl277/Katty Bard/Apokalyptika
Seastormjt

Vote: Camn

[Huntress]

OK- I'm done. Good luck ladies.

Aren't you going to reply to the all the other stuff people have been waiting to hear from you on? I asked you a question back in post 224 that I wouldn't mind an answer to, and there's plenty more for you to comment on.

[Huntress]

The question was in the post I linked, but I'll quote it for you here:

On flinter: Said almost exactly what I was thinking and placed a vote on camn. I'll be following to see if our thinking stays in tuned.

Can you expand on this a bit please? I can understand how the interactions or lack of them may prove interesting later after a flip, but how do they justify a vote now, at the point in the Day when Flinter voted?

Can you answer the original question and give your current view on Flinter/Tracey and Camn and their cases on you please?

[Huntress]

@ Seastorm: I'm still waiting for a reply to post 430 when I asked you if you had anything particular in mind.

I can't see exactly why Telo is scummy enough to have such a large wagon -- I'm picking up a general feeling of nervousness, but I'd love if someone could explain the wagon to me.

Never mind, thanks Rach (also Rach seems pretty town)

Where did Rach explain the wagon on Telo?

Sorry Tammy. There's a day and half left, and there's not going to be any point in dragging this out any longer.

Why did the fact that there was a day and a half left mean that you had to hammer just then, when there were still things outstanding, instead of waiting? I don't get it. Although your next post implied that you were trying to stop Telo talking. Why didn't you want her to respond to the questions she had been asked?

Bunny turning up town is a slight surprise, but I guess reading it over it was kind of obvious.

How was it obvious? And I'm still waiting for your reply to my post 495.

oops I did not realize this game had started my bad will reread the first 5 pages and wade in

How did you miss the fact that the game had started?

In post 162, RachMarie accuses Telo of "focusing so much on defending Piggy". But when asked to explain this she only mentions a couple of posts where Telo does not comment on Piggy. From this and one or two other things I'm getting a scummy vibe here.

Rach never did respond to the above. And apart from saying that DGB and Brandi look town she has hardly mentioned anyone but Telo the whole time (except in post 293).

Vote: RachMarie

for the moment.

Scum reads at present:
RachMarie
Camn - Will look at in a separate post and may move my vote here.

Seastormjt - Mainly for the opportunistic vote on Piggy.
Sucrose - See post 154 and above.
Flinter/Tracey
Apokalyptika - Slightly scummy on predecessor MathGirl see post 224.

I can also see an alternative reality where DGB and Piggy are scum together.

[Huntress]

As Telo was the only scum PR, I would have expected to find an attempt at a counterwagon but when I went looking for one I came up with very little. I looked at the votes from when Piggy puts a third vote on Telo in post 263.

Spoiler: Full list of votes

258 DGB votes Telo
263 Piggy votes Telo

265 Amrun votes Sucrose (2nd vote on her)

270 Eid votes Fujiko (1st vote)
279 Camn votes Fujiko (2nd vote)

280 Fujiko unvotes Piggy

292 Bunny(town) votes Fujiko (3rd vote)

305 Brandi votes Telo

309 Sucrose vote Brandi (2nd vote)

320 Katty unvotes Sea (MG's rv)

325 Fujiko votes RM

352 I vote Brandi (3rd vote)

355 Brandi votes me
358 Brandi votes Telo
363 Brandi unvotes
367 Brandi votes Telo

386 Flinter unvotes Camn

391 Camn votes Telo

393 Sucrose votes Bunny

394 City(town) unvotes DGB

397 City(town) votes Telo

408 Fujiko votes Telo

409 Sea votes me (2nd vote)

426 I unvote Brandi

439 Eid votes Telo

442 Tracey votes Telo

501 I vote Camn

535 Sucrose votes Telo

post 265 Amrun votes Sucrose (2nd vote on her) reverting to her previous vote before switching to Piggy.

post 270 Eid votes Fujiko (1st vote on her), looks genuine at the moment.

post 279 Camn votes Fujiko (2nd vote on her), pure sheep, which she acknowledged when making the vote, but she never backed it up in any way.

post 309 Sucrose vote Brandi (2nd vote on her) looks reasonable, could be genuine.

post 325 Fujiko votes RachMarie (1st vote on her), pressure vote, doesn't look like a bandwagon starter.

post 352 I vote Brandi.

post 393 Sucrose votes Bunny after Brandi-wagon becomes untenable. I think at this point she would have voted for Fujiko, or possibly me, if she was trying to rescue Telo.

post 409 Sea votes me (2nd vote on me), she says she will look at Fujiko again later, is still willing to vote Brandi but doesn't think that will get traction, and is waiting for Telo.

Of these, only Camn's 279 and possibly Sea's 409, look bad.

Conclusion: Scum don't seem to have made a great effort to defend Telo so the decison to bus may have been taken fairly early on. This means that scum may have been anywhere on the Telo-wagon.

[Huntress]

Mod are repeated roles possible?

Is that right? She's the only scum PR?

@ Huntress How can you be sure that is their only PR? We don't even know how many scum there are in this game? We can guess based on the size of the game, but it is a guess not a for sure know.

Are you all just

pretending

not to have read the first few posts? Or did you really not read the set-up?

Actually I'm very tempted to vote DGB. I'll think about it more tomorrow.

Huntress....are you really implying that I tried to derail the Telo wagon?

Not really. As I said in that post I came to the conclusion that there wasn't much of an attempt to derail the wagon.

[Huntress]

I've been re-reading Telo and Rach among others and Rach's post 162 still reads as fake. It did then and it still does now. And her post 166 responding to Tammy's query on it didn't really answer the question. Also what is very noticeable is the difference between Telo's completely ignoring Rach's accusation that she was defending Piggy, and her response to Katty's accusing her of the same thing in post 323. Telo asked for evidence (post 324) and then denied it (post 328). This difference makes me think that Rach and Katty/Apok are probably not both scum.

And neither of the NK's seem like someone DGBscum would target.

City Electric may not have been an intended target so you can't rule anyone out on those grounds.

Bunny turning up town is a slight surprise, but I guess reading it over it was kind of obvious.

How was it obvious? And I'm still waiting for your reply to my post 495.

If you read Bunny's ISO with her as town in mind, it's obvious. There's not much more I can say. Why does it matter? It's not like I ever had a strong scum read on her, she was just null.

And I thought for sure I answered that o.O
And I can't remember why. The feels I have for scumSucrose are too strong for me to worry about small fish like that.

I want to know why

you

think it's obvious. You say Bunny was just null but in post 441 you were calling her scum. Why the change? And now you say you're cool with a Tracey lynch, despite having called her obvtown. Again, what made you change you mind? As for calling someone confscum just because the slot was replaced twice... well Mathgirl was mildly scummy but I don't see how you can call it confscum. I'm asking all this because I'm trying to get a read on you and you're not making it easy.

Mmmmm

I want RachMarie to be lynched more, not less, after reading camn's post.

I tend to agree.

Personally I'm pretty confident that Bunnylover was the scum kill, and City Electric was the Vig.

Why is that?

Huntress - Huntress posted right when the piggy wagon started forming, without mentioning her at all. Immediately after springlullaby voted for brandi, huntress came in and voted for brandi for "meta" reasons. This seems like an attempt to form a counterwagon to telo. Scummy.

As I have pointed out before, my post at the time of the Piggy wagon

did

relate directly to it. And I didn't vote Brandi for meta reasons. In fact, at the time I voted her I hadn't even done the meta check on her. That came later and I only mentioned the results in the post where I unvoted her. I voted her for the reasons set out earlier in post 184.

[Huntress]

Camn's post 738 is making me think she has a higher chance of being scum than Rach. The rest of her posting is just adding to that.

Hope to have more time tomorrow to go into more detail.

Vote: Camn

Willing to switch back to Rach if necessary as I still think she is more likely to be scum than Apok, but not by much.

[Huntress]

Where did Rach say that she thought she was at L-1? It looked more like she was querying the incorrect statement that she was at L-1, and saying that she was prepared to claim when the time came, but that it hadn't yet. That's not a refusal to claim.

[Huntress]

Stating intent to hammer. Full claim please.

[Huntress]

ok claiming since even though no one has declared intent to hammer so many of you want my blood.

You missed my earlier intent to hammer. Pretending to have read when you haven't? Like you pretended you didn't know the game had started despite previously showing you knew that the game was fully signed up?

Waiting to hear from Apok.

[Huntress]

DGB, Piggy, Camn, or all three? And who's the fourth?

Going to re-read all these for a start. I was trying to do a post on Camn at the end of Day two but found myself struggling a bit with it and was wondering if I was letting confirmation bias creep in due to the way she has been posting. I need to work that one out.

[Huntress]

No, it was just a rhetorical question, not aimed at anyone but myself really.

[Huntress]

Fourth is Telo.

Yeah. I wasn't thinking when I said that.

[Huntress]

Also, I can guess how this day's going to turn out, but I'll try and make the most of it.

This gives me a bad vibe.

I'm kind if thinking the same... about the both of us.
You are alive because your reads are off.
Me too, likely.

Or the scum just don't know who we are

You ain't foolin' anyone.

They killed Tammy, though, and as I said before, Tammy was following in my footsteps to some extent.

It looked more like she was following her own path which just happened to coincide with yours some of the time.

Everyone on at the start of the Telo wagon D1 is town.

What makes you so certain?

There was this votecount:
Telo (3) (RachMarie - DrippingGoofball - PiggyGal15)
Fujiko (3) (Eidolon - camn - Bunnylover)

Followed by this votecount:
Telo (4) (RachMarie - DrippingGoofball - PiggyGal15 - Brandi)
Fujiko (3) (Eidolon - camn - Bunnylover)

This makes Brandi unlikely scum.

Unless they had already decided to buss Telo. I wouldn't rule her out just because of that.

Tammy kept calling Sucrose town.

Not sure that Sucrose-scum would have NK'd her, and left me alive after I was calling for her head post-Rach-lynch.

When did Tammy call Sucrose town apart from in her first thoughts at the beginning of the game, and during the period she thought Sucrose was vig? Her only other comment on her was in post 578, where she expressed doubts about her.

[Huntress]

Amrun is looking townish but I disagree with her stance re: Sucrose and Tracy in post 963

Not seeing the case against Tracy, maybe because nobody's actually made one? How about it Piggy? And Brandi?

I keep going up and down on Sucrose.

I'm still waiting for DGB's reply to my question at the bottom of post 958.

Vote: DGB

More tomorrow when I'm not so tired.

[Huntress]

When did Tammy call Sucrose town

apart from in

her first thoughts at the beginning of the game

, and

during the period she thought Sucrose was vig

? Her only other comment on her was in post 578, where she expressed doubts about her.

You've answered the question yourself.

Your statement in post 936 implies that Tammy was continually calling Sucrose town. She wasn't. She had expressed suspicion of her and the only time she called her town in day two was over the vig thing, as you did yourself. So I'm asking you to back up your statement with facts.

Huntress has been asking for this: I feel like you've been asking questions, but you haven't actually talked about what they mean or looked at the answers (Fujiko, Eidolon), which makes me feel like you're asking questions for the sake of asking questions and looking involved in the game. You don't actually react to the answers, which makes me feel like you don't care about the answers, which makes those questions fluff, which means that you've been fluff posting most of your posts.

You've said something like this before. I asked you in post 430 whether you had anything particular in mind and repeated the request in post 583 together with another question, but you didn't reply so I suspect you didn't really want to know. I ask questions to help me determine reads of people. If necessary I follow them up as I have done in a few cases but otherwise I just take the answers into consideration and chase up the non-answers. If you want to know more you only have to ask.

Huntress: A lot of people are saying Huntress was white-knighting Telo, but I don't quite agree, and I really don't like how she tries to back off the wagon while still saying "Oh, yeah, I still have a mild scumread on her, yeah."

My stance on Telo never changed from when I stated it in posts 457 and 479. This is pure misrepresentation, similar to your describing my posts as mostly fluff in the previous quote.

Everyone on at the start of the Telo wagon D1 is town.

What makes you so certain?

@ Sucrose: Can I have a reply to this please?


Scum reads at present:

Seastorm - more to say about 1005 but I'd rather see others reply to the bits about them first
DGB - further details to come
Camn

Brandi - for post 1035 among other stuff
Sucrose - but not I think with Seastorm
Piggy
Tracey - still some niggles here

[Huntress]

@ Huntress:

Please make a detailed case on Brandi, especially what it is that you find scummy in her post 1035, and please list "among other stuff."

If Seastorm is your top scumread, and I'm your second top scumread (or vice-versa, since your vote is on me), do you think I'm bus'ing Seastorm after bus'ing Telo on day 1?

Why is your so-called scum read on camn unsupported?

Please list the Tracey niggles.

1) That's a lower priority. I want to concentrate on re-reading you and Sea first. Actually it'll probably be Sea first as that looks like being more straight forward.
2) I wouldn't discount the possibility.
3) I had nothing to add to my previous comments.
4) That really goes back to some qualms I had about Flinter. I need to do some more cross-checking on Tracey but I'm not liking that she is being voted for what amounts to playstyle reasons and that she called Tammy town. Amrun is the only one who seems to have actually made a case on her but her claim as part of that case that DGB basically single-handedly derailed Tracey's wagon yesterday doesn't hold water, so I'm a bit dubious about it. I would appreciate comment from the others on that wagon (Spring, Camn and Piggy) about that as Amrun was suggesting that DGB wasn't killed in order to keep Tracy alive in view of the derailing and calling Tracy town.

[Huntress]

I said, my understanding of votal analysis is very shallow, but I know one thing: Scum tend not to vote right after each other (It's very difficult to fake, even if you know about it -- the votes come off as really awkward.)

This might mean more if you had included a timeline showing in which order people voted, showing all votes, but as it stands it's misleading. In at least one place you've cleared someone for voting next to possible scum when the votes were in fact one and a half days apart. That's not "right after each other".

...that DGB wasn't killed in order to keep Tracy alive in view of the derailing and calling Tracy town.

I

did

call

a lot

of people town.

That is not relevant to my point. The only reason I can think of for you to cut out and quote just the end of that sentence is to try to draw people's attention away from the point I was making in the rest of the paragraph.

Deadline is approaching. Please explain the Brandi read. It should take you long since your mind is already made up, all you need to do is explain it to us. Please make it a priority.

Yes, deadline is approaching. So I'm not going to be diverted into looking closer at a minor scum read when I've still got my thoughts on you to write up. No, my mind is not made up about Brandi. One dodgy looking post by itself isn't enough for that.

That's a non-answer. How likely do you think this is? What are the long-term benefits? How often have you seen this?

Well, I was going to say "I wouldn't put it past you!". Is that better? And no, I'm not going to let you distract me by getting into a theory discussion.

@Huntress: Oh really, then who DID derail the wagon on Tracey if not DGB? DGB was calling for Tracey's death, then Tracey catches up, and DGB says "good catch" on Rach and votes there, and the momentum moves to Rach and off of Tracey.

It was Tracey posting her reads that derailed the wagon, not DGB. She was just the first to leave it and return to her previous vote on the already existing Rach wagon. Piggy followed her but the others on the wagon moved their votes elsewhere.


I really, really want to lynch DGB so I'm leaving my vote there for the moment, but I've seen enough from what little there has been of Seastorm's posts to convince me she's a good lynch too so I'm prepared to switch.

[Huntress]

Still working on it, but in the meantime could you respond to my request in post 1057. Did you take your vote off Tracey on Day two because DGB did?

@ Spring and Piggy: Can you reply to the above too please.

[Huntress]

Huntress may be scum. All she's done today is try to carry out an agenda of lynching me.

Huntress has not bothered to make an actual case on me, on anyone else, today. She promised details on her scumread of me, and has not delivered. WHY? Because she cannot make a case against me. Not a convincing one, and not one that I cannot completely blow out of the water with TRUTH.

This is just slinging mud, in the hope that some of it will stick. If I was scum, why would I bother trying to lynch you? I think you're trying to portray my lack of time as scumminess. It's only been a couple of days, and a weekend at that, since I promised more details. It usually takes me longer than that to complete an in-depth study of a high volume poster (20% of the posts in the entire game!) looking at posts in context, not just doing an ISO, and I'm doing it that way as I think it will also tell me a lot about certain others, not just you. That last bit applies whether or not you are scum.

Huntress - Apok was acting scummier and went lower on my scum list than Tracey did. Now I can't remember exactly if it was because DGB in specific was switching from Tracey to Apok, but I just remember that it was everyone making Apok look scummier and leaving Tracey alone that made me switch my vote.

One person switching her vote off Tracey being "everyone"? Anyway, thanks for replying. Now can you tell me why you want to lynch Tracey as I asked you earlier?

[Huntress]

@Huntress: Why did you feel the need to repeat everything I said in post #984 in your post #985?

What do you mean? 985 doesn't repeat your post. It was just a brief statement of my thoughts on recent posts except for the part where I prompted DGB for an answer to my question. Why shouldn't I do that? I didn't even see your post until I previewed mine. I saw you had ninja'd me re: the question and so removed the quote which I originally had there, but left the prompt in as I check back through my posts in case stuff needs following up, so it's useful to have it there.

Is it just me or do all of DGB's posts feel as if they're misrepresenting someone? It could just be the tunnel vision... >_>

No, it's not just you.

However we have two days left until deadline. I see no evidence that this promised land is forthcoming.

It may well not be completed before deadline due to reasons beyond my control. Which have nothing to do with the game so don't try to make capital out of it.

[Huntress]

Nice work.

Vote: Springlullaby

[Huntress]

So Malakittens, was that your easiest win ever or what?

We don't know that the game is over yet. It may not be if the fourth PR is BP or JK.

[Huntress]

Thanks for running this RC; and well done to the PRs! It was a fun game! In a way it was almost a pity it finished so quickly!

Huntress' posts reminds me of someone...

I guessed they might.

[Huntress]

We know each other from another site.