Mini 368: Town Of Suspicion - Game over!

[petroleumjelly]

EDWODP:

I should probably add a Reason C for completeness:

C.) If you were in actual danger of getting lynched

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Ok Amelia thanks for clarifying, I'll take that into account the next time I have the thought of self voting at the beginning of a game.

Bandwagon time!

unvote, vote: CES

[al_kohaulec]

My thoughts on PJ not unvoting.

Like he said, there seemed no reason to unvote, we're at 7 to lynch, so maybe at 4+ votes on Thok, with no reason

to

vote him, you should be taking votes off, and probably looking at that 4th vote. Thok hadn't given any reason to unvote him, and leaving the vote on requires that he provides some sort of a reason. There also wasn't good reason for somebody else to be voted, so there was no need to be changing his vote anytime soon either.

@Rosso, I too want to know specifically what you're talking about as far as PJ's case against LML. The entire discussion was much more of PJ defending himself against LML than PJ making a case/attacking/whatever against LML.

For those who I can already see will accuse me of being scum with PJ and defending him. I am pointing out arguments for lynching PJ that I don't agree with, and I am pointing out why I don't agree with them. I don't think I should sit idly by while a townie gets lynched for those reasons when I don't agree with them personally.

[petroleumjelly]

<3 Alky. You so tricksy.

[Thok]

My point is that I think one could shorthand PJ's comments about not unvoting me as

"There isn't any reason to unvote Thok, as he isn't in any danger. (And perhaps Thok should be in danger, since he hasn't proven he's not scum and there are some possible scum connections)."

The question is how much of the parenthetical comment can be read into PJ's original post (that is, how much does PJ try to suggest that I could be scum in that post and specifically how much does PJ try to suggest that I'm scum with mith), and how scummy one should interpret that part of PJ's post.

I will admit that I am trying to bait you a bit for reactions/clarification; but it bothers me that you took like three posts to actually get my point (which I thought was clear; maybe others will disagree).

[mith]

pj, I never said "OMG, three votes" was an issue. I initially left it (my interest) vague, and later clarified that it was because there were other things happening (particularly CES's third-vote, MM's self-vote, and the argument with LML) which might have (should have?) given you something more to go on than randomness.

Will post more at Uni tomorrow.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

RC generally is more active than he is in this game, there are several explanations for his that I will list below,

A) He's intimidated by Lee's voracious exchange with PJ, heck many people would be intimidated by Lee's attitude towards the game, the man's a bloody beast in terms of how hard he pushes at times. Since Rosso's never played with Lee before, he could easily fall into a "stay out of the way"/"follow" pattern with Lee if he's protown and feels as if he's in over his head, that Paragon of Mafia Hunters thingamabob

is

pretty intimidating.
<Biggest Reason

Against

This Being The Case> I've played games with Rosso, he's stubborn and headstrong and a damn good player, I don't think it's likely that he would choose to play second fiddle to anybody on this site willingly and quietly follow them cuz he isn't the type to settle for that sort of crap.
<Biggest Reason

For

This Being The Case> Rosso is at times irrationaly insecure about his abilities.

B) Rosso is scum, he sees Lee's attack on PJ as being an excellent oppurtunity to fade into the background. He supports an attack on Thok and then on PJ to apply pressure while Lee/PJ soak up the spotlight, he feels comfortable leaving himself out of major discussion and faking inattention and lack of interest in order to leave no trace of wrongdoing, he feels that any misstep could bring the spotlight onto him and he'd rather not go toe to toe with any of the illustrious folks in our good town.

<BRATBTC> Rosso has a history of being active as scum, Lee's comment about him being discouraged with his role has some validity, but I think it's very weak, if Rosso can come up with something better I'd love to hear it.

<BRFTBTC> This is a game with some of the most illustrious players on the site, an oppurtunity to play with this many awesome people in a small game is fairly rare. I'd expect Rosso to seize the oppurtunity by the horns and try

very

hard to bag a few scum, if anything I'd expect him to be very excited and trying

extra

hard to catch/find scum. The fact that he seems content with not actively hunting down scum and instead content with riding Lee's coattails makes alarm bells absolutely blaze in my head.

C) Real Life Issues make it difficult for him to participate.

I'd look at his other games or check his college's starting schedule, I know he's moving in with his wife or something but don't know when that is. I currently don't have the time to figure this stuff out.

There's other stuff I want to say but I've got to run to class b4 i'm late.

more later.

[Rosso Carne]

pooks, i honestly am with my wife 24/7 and this is one of the few times i can post while shes at cvlass and im not.

tbh, i read back over lml's arguments and they seem weak, and pj's reflect bound is too opportunistic for my likings. That's why i think he's scum. coattails suck unless they belong to CEM.

And as for BRFTBTC in B, I dont care much. I've come to realize that pj will always think i'm an ass, mith will never respect me, and thok will always find every reason to insult me. I'm here to find scum. I found one. his name is pj.

[petroleumjelly]

tbh, i read back over lml's arguments and they seem weak, and pj's reflect bound is too opportunistic for my likings. That's why i think he's scum. coattails suck unless they belong to CEM.

Can you explain to me how my defense was "opportunistic", when I explicitly made it clear that I was not suspicious of LML (hence why I did not change my random vote)?

[mith]

MM is still bothering me; aside from the self-vote itself, one thing that stood out on re-read is that he claims he did it to "see how others would react", but hasn't commented on the reactions (namely, mine) at all, and has now gone to the "I didn't know any better" defense.

Rosso, "useless nonsense" has little bearing on "respect" (unless it's

all

you post). Heck, I'm all about useless nonsense in chat.

Your case against pj makes no sense to me, though.

(Also, OMG, he said "honestly"!)

CES is

still

voting for Thok, and

still

hasn't said anything useful.

FOA: CES

.

If the day were to end right now, I would be happy to lynch any of these three.

LML hasn't made any further comment on me, but he has posted. And he's done a bit of fishing, as pj pointed out. No strong feeling on him yet, need another rant or three.

No solid read on anyone else yet either; would definitely like to hear more out of Seol and Tyfo.

Need to go, now.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

MM is still bothering me; aside from the self-vote itself, one thing that stood out on re-read is that he claims he did it to "see how others would react", but hasn't commented on the reactions (namely, mine) at all, and has now gone to the "I didn't know any better" defense.

I specifically quoted you and asked why you were bugged by my self-vote, and you don't think that's commenting a reaction? I also asked those who started to mention Lloyd for some clarification, so how's that not commenting on reactions? Honestly I was just trying out something different and see how it will turn out, it's as simple as that.

[petroleumjelly]

Mod

, could we get some prods, please? Preferably on:
-Seol (last post Sep. 1)
-Tyfo (last post Sep. 2)
-Cogito Ergo Sum (last post Sep. 2)

Also, Pooks, you present reasons for why you think Rosso has played the way he has this game, but you do not seem to take a side on the issue you presented. Is there a direction you are leaning, or are you pretty much spot-on in the middle?

[mith]

MM, that seems less "doing something to get people to react and them commenting on it" than "doing something and then being confused when people say things about it". To me, the former seems like an excuse, not an actual reason.

You’ve also contributed very little else to the game, other than your comment on the pj/LML argument.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I stated my reasons for Rosso's behaviour to elicit a reaction from Rosso, based on the reaction I've received, I geniunely believe his inattentiveness during this game is based on him moving in with his newlywed wife.

I left it up for a few days because I wanted to see if anyone would hop on and attack Rosso harder after I laid out the roadplan and what not. The fact that no1 has is certainly interesting.

[al_kohaulec]

I personally didn't find too much worth attacking Rosso on at the time.

[lordy]

Prods sent

[Thok]

Rosso's basically doing the whole null tell thing; if nobody else is suspicious, then he might be worth looking at as scum, but I think there a lot of other things to discuss first. I'd like to hear more opinions from him, but then I'd like to hear more opinions from lots of people.

MM, Lloyd self-votes himself a lot early game, enough so that people have suggested

vote Lloyd

as a title for him. It can be a helpful technique if done correctly (in one newbie game I was in with Lloyd, he was town, selfvoted early day 1 and one could deduce scum from their reactions to the selfvote; scum attacked him for his selfvote, while town just sort of sat there and said "Huh?"; of course we didn't actually lynch the scum until days 2 and 3). However, the technique is a bit played out at the moment IMO.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

FoS: the Jelly

for getting me prodded.

Also, self-votes are unproductive. Bandwagons are much more useful.

[mith]

FOS: al_kohaulec

. That was a strangely defensive post, considering what you were "defending" against.

EOC: Thok

, who thinks there's a lot left to discuss, but doesn't discuss much else other than the deadhorse Lloyd thing.

I want to see at least one more post out of MM before I consider switching; preferably with thoughts on the other players.

[Ameliaslay]

Hmm, I really think you're reading too much into M-M's vote thing.

[al_kohaulec]

FOS: al_kohaulec

. That was a strangely defensive post, considering what you were "defending" against.

EOC: Thok

, who thinks there's a lot left to discuss, but doesn't discuss much else other than the deadhorse Lloyd thing.

I want to see at least one more post out of MM before I consider switching; preferably with thoughts on the other players.

???

Are you referring to my post where I said I had no reason to attack Rosso?

I didn't have anything going for or against me for that, and I didn't think anything would come up with me saying that. Honestly that was mostly a "posting to be posting" post, but I just wanted to say that I didn't find Rosso particular worthy of an attack. I wasn't really defending against anything as there was nothing to defend against.

[Thok]

EOC: Thok

, who thinks there's a lot left to discuss, but doesn't discuss much else other than the deadhorse Lloyd thing.

Fair enough. (EOC=Eyebrow of Contrivance?) My comment was partially meant to include that I'd like to hear opinions from Seol/Tyfo (or alternatively see replacements for the above). I'd like to see opinions from CES also, but I'm not convinced that he's going to give any. In contrast, Rosso has at least said something.

@CES-do you expect your current vote on me to accomplish anything? It's clear that the initial bandwagon on me, while it might not be dead, has currently stalled and I'd expect you to shift gears to a different wagon to keep the game moving.

@LML-you still here?

[Seol]

hey guys

sorry

i'm finding myself hugely short on time and finding it v. difficult to keep up with this game.

i have requested replacement.

[mith]

Thok: "Eyebrow of Concern"? Don't remember.

al: Clear up the "for or against" bit? No idea what you're saying there.

There was nothing to defend against, yes. That's my point. Your post reads as defensive even though you weren't being attacked. If someone had asked you directly why you hadn't, fine... but Pooky didn't. Feels like paranoid scum, maybe.

[al_kohaulec]

nothing for or against as in, well, I generally thought the entire post would be ignored. It was mostly a comment on his thoughts.

I didn't think people would attack me for saying that.

I didn't think people would stand in awe at me saying that.

I really wasn't expecting any sort of interaction about it at all.