Open 454: JK9 Endgame

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: PoPP

Someone might be allergic

[borkjerfkin]

I don't see how a cheeky self L-1 lends itself to either alignment.

[borkjerfkin]

So:

1) Mr. K is completely fallaciously comparing GnarlsBarkley's (god I love that) BS self-vote to something that he did late game under actual pressure in the game he linked.
VOTE: Mr. K

2) I fail to see the super serious tone in #31 that everyone else is assuming. Why's he scum for #31?

[borkjerfkin]

DMS is also *boggle* for cherry picking about just GG posting fluff on page 1 when plenty of others were doing so after him.

[borkjerfkin]

Here's the problem with the self-vote being a scum gambit -- this "gambit" should be designed to make gnarlsbarkley look town, yeah? It doesn't do that. Instead it serves as, at best, a nebulously defined reaction test, and due to the poor communication in #57 (quoting me while responding to Mr. K as well as poor sentence structure with the Piggy vote) I can't figure out what he's even trying to say.
@Majiffy -- what was gnarls trying to accomplish with this "gambit", in your opinion?

Piggy voted gnarlsbarkley for #31, which is kinda falling under the radar.
@Piggy -- what was scummy enough about #31 that you're confident enough to call it a "scum claim?"

@Gnarls --

The entire point of this gambit was to see if someone would jump on my ass calling this a lame "scum gambit".

This is EXACTLY what Majiffy did, and you're calling him town for it. What gives?

[borkjerfkin]

My gut says Piggy seems on the level.

also RE: Gnarls: in addition to calling Majiffy town for doing the thing you were expecting scum to try to do, you instead initially voted me, when I made it pretty clear that I thought you were just dicking around (and therefore did not think it was a "scum gambit"). I'm forced to conclude that your reaction test was total bullshit.

[borkjerfkin]

Haven't read much today yet, but:

I mean, tunnel vision much? Gnarlsbucksley, any other scum reads besides me? Or am I a one-man-band-scum-team?
(that would be pretty epically awesome if I was though xD)

This is bad...not only is it hypocritcial, but if Gnarlsbarkley thinks he's caught scum, why's he obligated to find the entire scumteam D1?
This looks like nothing other than confirmation bias or mudslinging.

And you really think 110 is a scumslip?

[borkjerfkin]

Also @Gnarls: your language in #31 is so awkward that it's pretty difficult to determine what tone you're taking in it. you're voting piggy for her reaction to #31 and subsequent vote on you, where she claims that she legitimately thinks you're trying to get a quicklynch on me. Disregard that possible miscommunication for a moment -- is she still your top scumread? If so, why?

[borkjerfkin]

Also I gotta say #109 is utterly devoid of useful content.

@Mr. K -- Why's Gnarlsbarkley scum? Few short sentences. Spend a little more time on this and a little less time arguing semantics with PoPP.

[borkjerfkin]

Here's the big question I think I have after the re-ISO of Mr. K and I think is the source of the meta/not meta business:

Yeah, gg found himself scum for the second time in a row and panicked. He figured that he could try to pull of the same stunt he did in the previous game because it failed there and it would be too stupid to try it again.

Why do you only mention the action (Gnarls self-vote) in regards to Gnarls previously doing it and not denounce it as scummy in and of itself?

[borkjerfkin]

@bork, just read her posts and they scream scum. Jumping on my wagon got her my vote. Her posting has kept it their.

Yeah dude that's really what I was looking for thanks.

Do me a favor: Reread post #57 and retype it so it makes sense. (having the author of the quote you linked match the person you're responding to would be a good start.) This would give me a much better window into what the hell you were trying to do with your early game play.

@DMS and @Majiffy -- Why are you both ok with lynching Mr. K when you really haven't really even mentioned him at all?

[borkjerfkin]

besides what seems as a clear scum slip

Eh? I just ISOed you and looked for the word "slip" and the first you mentioned a "slip" was #132. What are you referring to?

Also please answer my #127.

[borkjerfkin]

The implication is that you did it last time and were scum => you're doing it this time and therefore are scum again. That doesn't say anything about what he might've said had you not done it last game, hence the question.

[borkjerfkin]

Well he pretty much has to say "yes" at the point as saying "no" would be a scumclaim.

[borkjerfkin]

Well he already said that he does find it scummy. I don't agree but it's the only mindset he can hold without basically having lied to us the entire game.

It really seems like you're not paying attention.

[borkjerfkin]

Because that wasn't the question I asked -- I was asking why he didn't bring up the fact that it was scummy by itself instead of bringing up meta, given that he claimed he thought your actions were scummy in a vacuum.

But yeah, he didn't really answer me, just reasserted that he thought self-voting was scummy.

[borkjerfkin]

Lynching gnarl is a bad idea. I'm fairly certain he'll just end up flipping town, and then we'll end up in mylo.

Where was this opinion yesterday?

[borkjerfkin]

He wasn't saying he didn't want to lynch me

Lynching gnarl is a

bad idea

. I'm fairly certain he'll just end up

flipping town

Wanna try again?

[borkjerfkin]

And since when do you have to defend a town read?

Where am I asking you to defend the read? I just want to know when exactly you started thinking he was town; I mean here's the last thing you said about/to Gnarls yesterday:

Also, Gnarl, why did you say you "Will not compromise for Majiffy"? When was Majiffy even a suspect today?

Explain how that, or anything else you said yesterday, even hints that you think he's town?

[borkjerfkin]

Seriously your ISO barely even mentions him, and the only posts where you really do (#85, #185) you're directly questioning something he's doing.

Or are you trying to tell me that asking why piggy thinks gnarls is scum implies that you think he's town?

[borkjerfkin]

That doesn't mean you get to ignore everything else I posted.

[borkjerfkin]

I've explained my reads on D1. You're still scum. And now you're trying to strawman the argument.

Die scum, die.

You should reread the post you're referring to.

[borkjerfkin]

Sigh

He was explaining how Piggy's sheeping of DMS doesn't make any sense, not that he really thinks you're crumbing JK.

[borkjerfkin]

Rather lynch piggy than gnarls at this point -- Gnarls is too noisy to get a good read on. Silavor is looking bad too.

VOTE: Piggy

[borkjerfkin]

Piggy, you seem to be of two minds this game.

One is that "Everyone is trolling around", which has I guess caused you to basically throw up your hands and sheep others most of D1 and part of D2.

The other has been that you've got enough PoE to pretty much insist that I'm scum with Hunter. If you really think that you should be fighting tooth and nail to get me lynched (you're not gonna get anyone to lynch hunter and you should know that)

I don't understand how you can say the game is filled with trolls but insist that they're so obvtown that you can narrow down the scum team so much -- which rings even more hollow by the fact that you don't seem sure of it by your actions.

[borkjerfkin]

Why do you insist on being "sure" someone's scum? I'm not sure you're scum.

[borkjerfkin]

Also if you can be sure 4 people are town, and it was looking like you were...that should make you sure 2 are not.

[borkjerfkin]

There a reason you have no opinion on the current wagon despite accusing piggy of trolling yesterday? Or you know...maybe try to do something other than take random potshots and disappear?

I'm for lynching Silavor too. In fact, if Piggy flips scum it's probably even more likely he's scum due to totally avoiding even talking about this wagon.

[borkjerfkin]

I echo that sentiment. How Piggy thinks this game is even remotely PoEable is beyond me.

[borkjerfkin]

All I got from that statement is "clearly scum are in the game somewhere".

[borkjerfkin]

Really? Even after I'm being so blatantly scummy? And AtEing it up all over the place? You still think gnarl is scummier... interesting.... why?

What's your angle here?

[borkjerfkin]

Why are you an "obv mislynch" if even by your own admission you're: (pretend I quoted 323 again)?

[borkjerfkin]

And we're all obviously wrong? Why are we wrong?

I seriously can't get anywhere with you.

[borkjerfkin]

I have no idea what to think. On one hand you're ignoring the fact that we obviously can't take that for granted (and therefore you're not really answering my question), and on the other hand I don't expect scum to give the answer you just gave.

[borkjerfkin]

Do you think AtE is a scumtell?

[borkjerfkin]

PoE - process of elimination (aka what Piggy was kinda doing when she pretty much named off 4 or so people she was fairly certain of being town)
AtE - appeal to emotion (stuff like "you'll be at MyLo when you mislynch me!")

[borkjerfkin]

That's a good answer.

[borkjerfkin]

Reading pecan's 324 again, I think it's a pretty questionable post. "It's not a case of one is scummier than the other" but jumps on the wagon with less people on it really makes no sense from a town perspective.

[borkjerfkin]

While I think Majiffy is just getting cold feet about Piggy which is something else entirely.

[borkjerfkin]

If Gnarlsbarkley is town it's confirmation bias out the ass. That doesn't mean he's not town though. DMS has been doing largely the same.

[borkjerfkin]

I dunno, I think he was actually attempting to make a case on her on D1, it's just that his self-vote shenanigans overshadowed all that.

I need to take a look at PoPP again because he's rubbing me the wrong way today.

[borkjerfkin]

Fucking hell. Majiffy is the only person I'm relatively certain giving the town stamp of approval to, and that's pretty much cause of his Mr. K rage in twilight.

[borkjerfkin]

Wouldnt you want to see a flip first?

[borkjerfkin]

You think they can't be scum together? Piggy has gone out of her way not to vote Gnarl.

Do you think it's likely? I care much more about that than I care about what's possible.

[borkjerfkin]

Gnarls what are you even talking about

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah Piggy is "still" town even though you've never once referred to her as town just like Gnarl was "still" town even though that was the first time you'd referred to him as such when pressured about it by me-- a point you ignored earlier. All you've done is posted vague questions directed at various people and then acted as if you've strongly come out against two major wagons when really you've been mostly avoiding saying anything about them at all.

VOTE: Silavor

p-edit: dude don't get uppity every time someone says something they don't like about your play.

[borkjerfkin]

Is Silavor obtown to you or what am I missing?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm content to see where this goes while we get a replacement.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah he never voted for someone you think is scum so that's why he seems town

fuck it, die.

VOTE: GnarlsBarkley

[borkjerfkin]

It means that calling someone townish for avoiding a wagon on someone that you think is scum (Piggy) makes no goddamn sense.

[borkjerfkin]

It doesn't make sense in terms of gaining towncred either, sooooo.....?

[borkjerfkin]

You're talking about Silavor? Well thought out and logical? Are you high? He's barely even given an opinion on

anything

the whole fucking game.

[borkjerfkin]

He's not being a derp...he's just not giving any information unless put through the wringer about it. Town has no motivation to play like he's playing under zero pressure unless he just legitimately doesn't give a fuck.

[borkjerfkin]

this game

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah gnarls if there's anything that's been coming across crystal clear all game its the tone of your posts.

[borkjerfkin]

I'll vote again if you think it would help

[borkjerfkin]

bill maher is just the worst

[borkjerfkin]

Second new rule. If grey isn't at L-1 by tomorrow 4 EST I'm going to call for a piggy lynch.

Oh? why not PoPP?

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

shit shit shit who are we jailing if grey flips scum?

[borkjerfkin]

If Grey flips scum and there's a death tomorrow, we decide JK target prior and that person is clear.

[borkjerfkin]

We don't have to out the JK to do this we just need a consensus.

If grey flips town then do whatever.

[borkjerfkin]

I say jail piggy -- it would avoid the wagon inevitably going back to her tomorrow. If scum tries to WIFOM fake us out with no-killing then we've just earned another ML.

[borkjerfkin]

I literally JUST POSTED about that

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah you've posted a one liner about his being scum so fucking obvious whatever. now's not the time to fight about it.

Gnarls flips scum: Jail PoPP
Gnarls flips town: Do something else. Or don't. Just don't tell anyone.

[borkjerfkin]

Raging at people for being antitown.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm going to tell you to look at my ISO and decide for yourself.

[borkjerfkin]

And I'm gonna keep making references as to how annoying you're being.

[borkjerfkin]

Director shut up. hes playing the game.

[borkjerfkin]

I dunno why you're so excited about the lynch that just revealed himself to be town.

[borkjerfkin]

Well now here I'd been asking myself "What's scum to do".

One of those things might to be to call him town at the beginning of the game and then not react to anything he posted afterward.

[borkjerfkin]

I kinda hope they do too.

[borkjerfkin]

I honestly see no reason to blacklist anyone here. No one's playing against their wincon or being just totally rude.

[borkjerfkin]

Holy shit Silavor actually has something to say.

I'll never understand why scum continue to pretend they're town in twilight and allow people to start throwing out towntells like crazy instead of just shutting up like they should.

I'm hammering. If PoPP is lying he's already lost, and if scum no-killed we've bought ourselves an extra lynch.

I'll enjoy being confirmed town if we don't outright win here.

VOTE: Silavor

[borkjerfkin]

I'm gonna check in tomorrow -- I'm too tired to think about this game right now.

[borkjerfkin]

i'm claiming last.

[borkjerfkin]

ugh dammit piggy.

[borkjerfkin]

(yeah it was a long shot but it was worth trying). Dunno if that was director's plan but that's where I was hoping it might go.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah sleep didn't happen.

It is now safe to assume that Borkjefkin is confirmed Town.
Most unfortunate result.

Why's it unfortunate to have a confirmed town?

[borkjerfkin]

Gotcha.

Piggy's the obvious choice right now -- her play is by far the least transparent out of anyone here. I'd like to see her reads.

[borkjerfkin]

If you want any chance of being believed, you're gonna make your case public.

[borkjerfkin]

God now all we need is for Majiffy to vote director and we've got a nice SNAFU going on.

[borkjerfkin]

Where the hell has Majiffy been? He's been on the site.

[borkjerfkin]

Gunny, if I was really scum, why do you think I would go after the one person who has almost no suspicion on them?

So unless someone thinks that pie's night actions don't confirm Majiffy or bork, then I'm going to keep voting Gunny

These two statements don't work together. You act like scum doing this would be an obviously suspicious / suboptimal move, and then you give a pretty objectively reasonable explanation for doing it. Who would be "more obvious" in this case?

I'm on board for piggy lynch I just wanna hear from others.

[borkjerfkin]

Aight I gotta reread cause that's not what I was expecting.

[borkjerfkin]

waht

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Majiffy

I think he just fucked up -- PoPP didn't say he was going to jail me until right before I hammered.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm genuinely curious. why?

UNVOTE:

[borkjerfkin]

Bork... da faq you talking about? How is that a scum slip? Scum would have no indication what-so-ever of who pie was going to jail more than town did.

I was reading it like he was condemning you guys for voting Silavor but not me for doing it because we all knew I was getting jailed.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm losing faith in humanity from this game.
Should you choose to hammer me, I suggest you do it right fucking now and lynch Majiffy tomorrow.

No worries Gunny, that's literally my exact plan. I'm not being sarcastic, even though this really sounds like it in my head o.O But I'm serious, if you're not scum, it has to be Majiffy, no iffs ands or buts.

Bork... da faq you talking about? How is that a scum slip? Scum would have no indication what-so-ever of who pie was going to jail more than town did.

Why are you condemning and defending Majiffy in the same post?

[borkjerfkin]

director i have no fucking idea where your head is at.

[borkjerfkin]

that's piggy majiffy director on DMS so yeah. Why in the fuck did you hammer.

[borkjerfkin]

Majiffy's interactions with gnarls actually looked really genuine to me. I probably misread what he was attacking DMS for.

Between piggy and director i really have no fucking clue. Piggy's barely trying and director's fucking huffing rubber cement or something

[borkjerfkin]

DMS you played really well fwiw. Better than I did for sure.

[borkjerfkin]

it's not lylo you twit.

[borkjerfkin]

blah director is prob

moron

town

[borkjerfkin]

you are not a person i like very much right now

[borkjerfkin]

Like everytime someone that isn't DMS posts I think that person is scum

[borkjerfkin]

Majiffy is probscum.

[borkjerfkin]

i'm gonna stop overanalyzing shit. that's where i'm at and good luck.

[borkjerfkin]

=\

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think I've ever led a lynch on scum, like ever. So you're not telling me much I don't know.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm gonna drink some whiskey now.

[borkjerfkin]

Especially since you could've liked ISOed back at most 5 or 6 posts and found it in 15 seconds.

[borkjerfkin]

director believing it was LyLo (wrt to piggy not hammering and me getting my vote off and shit) strikes me as legit.

[borkjerfkin]

nor was I gonna vote dms. you were on gnarls from start of game and tunneled the fuck out of scum.

[borkjerfkin]

Waht

[borkjerfkin]

also thanks director for being so utterly oblivious to the gamestate that you pretty much couldn't be scum =\

[borkjerfkin]

you knew what was going to happen?

[borkjerfkin]

how the fuck is it even possible for me to be scum

[borkjerfkin]

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, i should be calling the damn thing a duck.

the only possible reason to leave me alive is because i was leaning anti-majiffy eod yesterday; in all other respects that move is suboptimal and not one majiffy had any reason to make.

combine that with an abrupt, unexplained flip on gnarls, reads that pretty much went nowhere, no transparency, and all but 0 scumhunting effort and there's really nowhere else i can go here.

VOTE: piggy

[borkjerfkin]

majiffy come at me bro (and be town)

[borkjerfkin]

goddamn seriously?

[borkjerfkin]

brb suicide

[borkjerfkin]

like what the fuck man

[borkjerfkin]

why did you leave me alive

[borkjerfkin]

this really had very little to do with you and more to do with piggy

[borkjerfkin]

as to why i picked her, not saying you weren't good

[borkjerfkin]

that is just fucking demoralizing

[borkjerfkin]

Nah man just let me lead lynches on town, that's kinda my fuckin thing.

[borkjerfkin]

Well you had popp fooled too.

i have no fucking idea what the hell director was doing this game -- thinking i could be scum yesterday, thinking it was lylo?

[borkjerfkin]

and i couldn't get in piggy's head

[borkjerfkin]

also i suck

[borkjerfkin]

scum teams everywhere are finding out that i will find a way to lose if you just leave me alive long enough

[borkjerfkin]

i'm requesting scum in 459, fuck this town shit.

[borkjerfkin]

mebbe.

assuming that game ever starts =\

[borkjerfkin]

eat me

[borkjerfkin]

wat

[borkjerfkin]

...

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

SORRY FORGOT ABOUT THE POST GAME REACTION TEST




































































fuckers
































lol

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

Ok so greygnarl actually is a shithead, cool.

[borkjerfkin]

i'm pretty fucking pissed off.

[borkjerfkin]

yeah dude you got to 1) gloat and 2) make me look like a fucking idiot

mission accomplished.

[borkjerfkin]

not even pissed about the loss at this point -- every single person on town could've handled a lot of things better.

grey having an utter lack of sportsmanship is something else entirely

[borkjerfkin]

piggy i don't harbor any ill will, i'm just wondering why you seemed to never get into the groove of this game.

[borkjerfkin]

eh I've cooled down. apology accepted and gg.