Micro 23: Shadow Hunters Mafia I (OVER)

[boxxy]

/confirm

[boxxy]

Hi! My name is boxxy, and I vote for shos. Cause he's just trying to bandwagon on what shuriken says.

Vote: shos

[boxxy]

I'm calling it, its shos and shuriken.

Shuriken feels very wishy-washy on his voting, like he can't come up with concrete reasons for his votes but he's trying real hard to be convincing. Shos, its hard to tell if he's scum or just bad, but he seems to be working with shuriken.

In post 42 he fed off of shuriken's reasoning to defend their ignoring the 1-1.5 pages of content.

To me it feels like two scum decided they'd better start participating so they don't look like lurkers but ignored all the content because they already know who is scum.

Then later as the shuriken bandwagon starts, shos just jumps on with no strong reasoning. He doesn't want to defend shuriken to appear his buddy so he joins in on post 77.

I'll join the shuriken bandwagon cause I think its both of them, shuriken now, shos later.

Unvote, vote: shuriken

[boxxy]

All roles can exist as town or scum, but only

NEUTRAL

characters can be third party.

Any role with a "once in the game" ability can exist as a VT (they used it before the game began, tsk tsk tsk!)[/b]

I'm confused, what does VT mean? Reading the dynamite nurse ability I don't see how that could work before the game starts.

Also currently reading the last few pages will respond again later tonight.

[boxxy]

a) Dynamite Nurse is on the possible role page
b) The ability is not a pregame ability

Ah, I must've missed it.
Yea, my role says everything thats on that page, except I have an extra line under Active Abilities saying that I used my one time ability pre-game on someone not in this game. Essentially just making me vanilla.

Okay I just found this post that I somehow missed. Still have no idea what's going on. Why would someone have a role who's ability was used pre-game on someone not in the game, thus making them vanilla. Why even have that role in the first place?

Mod I'm confused. What is this I don't even

[boxxy]

Ah okay I get it now. Seems like a pretty round about way to have VTs but w/e.

Scum being to talk during the day / during pre-game means that Shuriken would be able to post in the scum QT.

Most people, upon receiving their scum role PM that doesn't appear to be in the list of roles in the OP, will go to the scum QT and immediately say "man this is weird, scumbuddy. My role isn't in the OP!" And scumbuddy (or possibly mod) will say "please look at the OP again it is totally right there," thus meaning the scum-Shuriken either did not react to this in a way that most humans would, or he's not scum.

I don't buy that. The role PMs have all the information you need to play that role, so what's the point in double checking the list to see if your role is supposed to exist in the game, you already know your role.

I'd only check the role list if I was looking for one to fakeclaim, or I was checking up on somebody else's claim.

That being said, his response with being confused that the role wasn't on the list looks to me like he's town since he knew his role without knowing it from the role list. I'm not entirely convinced either way anymore, but he looks more town than scum now.

Back to shos, my other pick from previous. Shos is either scum or just really bad. He's barely being pro town. We're now 6 pages in and he makes a random vote. Additionally he's very quick to jump on a bandwagon. He joins up against shuriken very quickly, then backs off him very quickly.

He either doesn't care or is just bad. Even if he isn't scum he's not playing very pro town so I wouldn't be opposed to removing him.

Unvote Vote: shos

[boxxy]

Also thanks Zoidberg for the explanantion, thank god you're a doctor

[boxxy]

Haha like I give a fuck that you're voting for me.

post 109 has everything I needed to know to unvote shuriken. as I said, I will not discuss this.

If that is all the evidence you need, what is with all this shit?

UNVOTE: shuriken

alright first conftown.

I will only say if he is lynched/killed or if I'm going to be hammered.

you can trust me on this tho. If you want to lynch him, lynch me first, and then you'll believe me that he is town. no, this is not a daycop claim ._.

If your not claiming a daycop or some sort of pro town power-role, why are you not sharing your confirmed town insight to the rest of town? If you can positively rule someone out as scum, that would seem like something important to share with everyone else no?

Just saying "trust me I know but I can't say" doesn't gain us anything since we don't know whether to trust you or not. It looks like you have some sort of pro-town power role, and now scum knows it. The only difference is scum knows for sure that you have pro town power role and thus can kill you off tonight, but the rest of town doesn't know if you actually are pro-town or are scum claiming a power role. You've sold yourself out to scum without giving town help, unless of course you are scum and just want town to think you're valuable so we don't lynch you. Saves you from taking the risk of claiming a role that someone else has and thus outing yourself.

I'm calling it, its shos and shuriken.
Shuriken feels very wishy-washy on his voting, like he can't come up with concrete reasons for his votes but he's trying real hard to be convincing. Shos, its hard to tell if he's scum or just bad, but he seems to be working with shuriken.
In post 42 he fed off of shuriken's reasoning to defend their ignoring the 1-1.5 pages of content.

To me it feels like two scum decided they'd better start participating so they don't look like lurkers but ignored all the content because they already know who is scum.

Then later as the shuriken bandwagon starts, shos just jumps on with no strong reasoning. He doesn't want to defend shuriken to appear his buddy so he joins in on post 77.
I'll join the shuriken bandwagon cause I think its both of them, shuriken now, shos later.

Unvote, vote: shuriken

this post is just bad; it starts with a scumteam thought(D1? seriously? in page 4?), then he calls shuriken scum for..trying to be convincing? can you quote me the reasons you voted shuriken without quoting the reasons *I* voted shuriken?..then he says that 'hard to tell' if I'm scum, but I seem to be 'working with shuriken'? erm? posting a case on shuriken and then voting him - hell of a work I'd say! "fed off of shuriken's reasoning" - what reasoning? this was a frekin half a sentence saying that page 1 is void of content. and that next sentence - what the hell? I bolded it for you to see. has anyone, ever, in all games, as scum, thought anything like that? that you better start participating to avoid being called lurker, and ignore everything because you know who is scum? how the hell is that supposed to even work?

We're now 6 pages in and you've finally posted a decent scumhunting attempt. You're only other one was in post 76 where you bandwagoned on scum hunting shuriken after others started it without offering much of your own opinion. Interesting that your first scumhunting finally appears once the pressures on you. Looks like someone wants to get out of the spotlight.

[boxxy]

If that is all the evidence you need, what is with all this shit?

Seriously? You're going to attack someone for giving extra evidence?

My point was that he didn't give extra evidence he just claimed to know 100% but wouldn't explain why or how. All the "shit" that I quoted was not extra evidence.

That first sentence condemns you automatically lol.

and to answer your question: just like the reason that a cop doesn't claim immidiately D2 only to claim a person is town.

If cop isn't going to claim they also shouldn't hint at a power role like you did. Hinting that you have a power role that lets you know 100% someone is town is a bad idea. If you can't or won't prove it to the rest of town then we have no reason to trust you. Now scum has a high value target to kill and town can't know whether to trust you or not till after you're dead.

but when you see that I flip town, you will know that I have no reason to lie.

This doesn't add up for me. Just because you had no reason to lie doesn't mean you're right. You could just be mistaken.

well uh..the thing is that in order to explain how the both of us can 'have enough evidence' to see either as a conftown, I'll have to claim my powers.

We'll you're already outed as a power-role, the question is whether its more beneficial for town to know this now while you're still alive or next day after you've likely been night-killed by mafia.

I'm leaning more town on you know so I'm removing my vote. I'm gonna feel pretty sheepish if it turns out my scumteam call turns out to be 100% confirmed town on the first day

Unvote

[boxxy]

I'm undecided at this point, I'm going to have to re-read the whole game check out the other players. Don't think I'll finish that tonight, hopefully tomorrow after work.

I tunnel visioned in on shuriken/shos from the start and I don't think I gave everyone else enough attention.

Gonna be real funny if it turns out to be bv310 and Shidaji while the rest of us pick apart each others posts lol.

[boxxy]

Mod question: What does it mean to be given a "fakeclaim" that the Unknown role has?

[boxxy]

@boxxy in 155:
oh so I hinted I'm a PR? what if I'm just luring scum to waste a shot on me? scum are in wifom here, I'm not stupid.

Seems like a stupid way of luring the night kill. Your PR hint came with a 100% guarantee that shuriken is town. If that was a fake claim you're spending a lot of time trying to convince everyone that shuriken is town.

I've read over the possible roles like 6 times and either I missed something or you're full of shit. I don't see any role you could have that lets you confirm shuriken as 100% town just because he used the word essentially when claiming VT dynamite nurse.

the cause for my thought is the fact that you used the word 'essencially'. tell me if you understand. please please please do

Does this reasoning make sense to anyone else? I guess shuriken claims to understand it, but I don't see how its possible for you to confirm him 100%.

Sidenote

: I'm going to be offline this weekend starting friday evening ending sunday night so I won't be able to post/read during the weekend, sorry!

[boxxy]

Back from the weekend, will re-read the thread and post tomorrow.

[boxxy]

@shos: Nice work on the role PMs. I don't think its 100% confirmed since both scum and town could be make vanilla, but your play reads very town on top of that so I'll go with it for now.

I've re-read the thread and I'm not very convinced by this case on Shii. The only evidence seems to be that his posts are "Vague" or "Beating around the bush."

Not much evidence to put him at L-1 personally and definitely not enough for me to hammer him.

I still really read scum on shruiken, but the whole shos/shuriken situation says I'm wrong :/.

Really need to hear more from bv310 in this game, its getting ridiculous.

I really have no strong reads on anyone at the moment and I'm super tired gonna go to bed. Sorry guys I was hoping to contribute more tonight.

[boxxy]

Unvote
Vote: boxxy

to prevent questions asked, I never took my scumread off of boxxy, the vote on shii was just to add pressure, and I don't want him at L-1. he started playing better lately, and I'm not seeing a good enough reason to suspect him more than my case on boxxy.

to add to that - boxxy's siding with me on the shuriken thingie looks alot fake imo. He says 'good work' for my thought despite it not being 100% and disregards shuriken because of this, despite the fact that with what the mod said, what I said only confirms me and not quite shuriken. I might just go with a shuriken/boxxy scumteam now, you know. but shuriken is as I said probably my last resort because of his reaction to my 'essentially' hint. so I'm back full power on boxxy.

Did you seriously just flip flop on shuriken? Your 100% conf town guaranteed never getting lynched at all? Just last post you said

shuriken and me are noy getting lynched at all, not only today.

And now you think its probably me and shuriken as a scum team?

Boxxy, try reading a case on Shii from someone who is not named Shuriken.

I read your case on him, which is focused on the fact that he called a lot of people scummy. Still not very convinced.

[boxxy]

Hey guys, super busy tonight IRL I'll catch up tomorrow.

I'm liking quadz right now, will give more detail later.

VOTE: quadz08

[boxxy]

My suspicions on quadz stem from his eagerness to vote Shii without anything more to go on than Shii's first vote that scum is somewhere in 6 people.

A) How can they be townreads when you're getting scumvibes?
B) The issue is that you just called 2/3rds of the game scummy in some way. This is huge for scum, because you can then use that for justification to hop on almost any lynch.

A) You're literally asking me how someone can be a townread here. My mind works differently than yours, and my townreads have their own hierarchies or whatever it's called in that some of them are lower on the scale than others. In this case CDB and DBK did nothing scummy in my eyes, but their playstyles read as gut-scummy, while my other two townreads did not. Capische?

B) I'm not going on those two anytime soon when I have you and bv. I don't understand how you can think that if I clearly outlined who I thought was

more

scummy, therein I would

obviously vote who I thought was scummiest in the list of null-scum

.

The further explanation in A makes sense as to why you called them town, I suppose. B, however, is entirely missing the point. I don't care who you say you're going to vote now or next or whatever. The important point is

you've just given yourself grounds to vote 6 of the 9 people in this game.

That. Is. Scummy.

Seriously read his iso, that's the only case he made against Shii.

However, putting quadz aside for a bit, let's look at shuriken.

I've been thinking and I really believe that shos "confirmed town read" is actually a null read.

Re-read the details of the read in post #176.

The read is that both the PMs were worded similar by saying they're "essentially" town. However both town and scum can be made vanilla, and if either is made vanilla it is likely to be worded the same way. It is just as likely that he is town or scum from this.

Shuriken's case on Shii was even more flimsy than quadz, and he put him at L-1.

With that in mind, there's no reason to stop pressuring shuriken, so

Unvote

Vote: shuriken

[boxxy]

Yeah nothing's happened that doesn't make me want boxxy dead. I'm pretty happy to leave quadz for now, haven't really felt anything scummy from him at all. boxxy's case on shuriken doesn't sit well with me, though - it seems like a case built around what we know rather than what shuriken thought.

Can you clarify what you mean here, please? How can anyone build a case around what someone else thinks?

Scum have to think differently to how town think because their objectives are different. That, fundamentally, is how scum are caught - what they do is determined by what they think. boxxy's case on shuriken didn't seem to take any notice of what shuriken was thinking when he posted - it seems based on what we know since rather than what shuriken was thinking at the time. And things are only scummy if they were done by people who are thinking like scum.

Sorry for not building a case on what shuriken was *thinking* at the time.

[boxxy]

(seriously can we just fucking lynch shuriken, or somebody?

There's 2 days to deadline. Gotta lynch somebody.

because if we lynch wrong today, then we go into LYLO tomorrow with

only four votes on the table

, which means

town loses

.

UNVOTE VOTE: quadz08

That's some serious cognitive dissodence. You're happy to just lynch anybody to get the game rolling but as soon as someone prompts you to complete the lynch all of a sudden your'e concerned about making the wrong lynch.

Even if it would require 3 votes to lynch, we'd never get those three votes. There'd be 3 town 2 scum, so 2 townvotes 2 scumvotes. This means we'd never reach majority, because scum would never vote themselves off in that circumstance. Stall til deadline, force no-lynch, scum wins via NK.

3 town 2 scum means there's

3

townvotes buddy. So its not a guaranteed scum win. If the three town can agree on a scum to vote, then they have majority vote. Learn to count.

[boxxy]

*dissonance cause I'm pro an english.

[boxxy]

*at, fuck me

[boxxy]

Trying again, somehow missed the part where you entirely lose your vote for the next day.

Regardless, your cognitive dissonance is still pretty scummy IMO.

[boxxy]

We're essentially in LYLO now assuming that scum manages to get a kill tonight. It's 4 town 2 scum, if we mis-lynch that's 3v2 and if scum gets their kill its 2v2 with no doublevote powers so we're done.

+1 Zoidberg.

I propose a popcorn massclaim starting with CDB. At this point we need as much information as possible, even if we can only confirm 1 or two people as town that would make it much more likely we can find scum today. Unless anyone has something strong to go on other "so and so feels scummy."

[boxxy]

So my problem with no lynching is we're giving scum another chance to kill town PRs and all we get in return is a 7% bump in guessing right. (33% versus 40%)

I'd rather massclaim today, if we still can't figure it out, then go no-lynch. I guess we also gain a chance for any investigators to find the scum, so that affects the odds as well. But its not as simple as 2/6 versus 2/5.

[boxxy]

Well, I'm Fu-Ka, and am vanilliazed. So it would have to have been one of those other roles that saved us from losing another townie during the night.

Also, why would a no lynch help us reck?

Wait, you got Ellen'd? When?

Did Ellen claim already? I'm confused.

No, mod vanillaizes a number of scum and town for balance pre-game. They still get a role name/alignment but don't have any abilities.

[boxxy]

I'd like boxxy to go first.

That's funny, cause I'd like you to go first, as I asked yesterday.

[boxxy]

It's better for town if I claim last

[boxxy]

What do you have to lose by letting me go later? I'd prefer to go after CDB at the very least.

[boxxy]

I'm Bob, I know several people's roles through robbery. Letting me claim later would have prevented mafia from fake-claiming since I could probably call them out.

CDB next.

[boxxy]

Also CDB your post was clearly just a bullshit post to make me claim. If your role doesn't actually benefit town to claim later I'm voting you for sure.

[boxxy]

I have robbed you, shuriken and CDB. And the roles hold up, shuriken is Fu-Ka, reck is werewolf and CDB is Gregor.

At this point I think we should figure out how scum didn't get the one NK. If CDB used his ability that night, he could have been saved. Could zoidberg's jailing action have stopped the night kill?

Those are the only options I see.

[boxxy]

Boxxy: What night did you investigate me?

I investigated you most recently, my investigations went shrui, reck, CDB (you).

Well then, its probably safe to assume sapo is town. Otherwise the game would be over.

That's a pretty good call, I'd believe that sapo is town due to that.

thank you for pointing that out and removing any chance I had at drawing the NK tonight

Seems like a pretty weak way of drawing the night kill :/. After a mass claim, any diligent scum would check the role descriptions to determine who is the most important to kill.

[boxxy]

LOL

VOTE: Reck

In other news, sapo is town and boxxy's claimed investigation at least doesn't clash with my action.

Did you use your action first or second night? If second that could explain the lack of a NK and confirm you as town. Otherwise I still think we should figure out how scum missed the NK before lynching reck.

[boxxy]

actually

nobody put down the last vote, that means, it's CDB & shu.

VOTE: ChannelDelibird

gg

That or its you.

CDB claim when you used your action.

[boxxy]

You think scum will answer when they can just stall out the game? Plus with zoidberg dead there's no way to confirm if he or cdb stopped the kill. Why would cdb claim anything other then yeah I used it n2?

We have lots of time. Even if we have to wait for CDB to be prodded, I'm going to wait for a response. CDB if you do reply without answering the question, I will vote you with no hesitation.

[boxxy]

Shuri, why are you being reckless and keeping reck (lol pun) at L-1?

[boxxy]

Mod: Please prod CDB, it's been 3 days since his last post

[boxxy]

Lok. seriously though. Cdb needs a prod or a replacement if he doesn't post this weekend

[boxxy]

He hasn't picked up his PM I sent Tuesday...
Has he been on scumchat?

Did you just blow CDBs cover? Or was that some sort of joke?

[boxxy]

Oh haha, pro

[boxxy]

Hi Goofball,

Unknown is a role name. To find scum you need to read the role claims, the available roles, and determine how scum didn't get a NK the one night.

[boxxy]

Oh yeah Shiidaji wasn't scum

Every role can exist as either town or scum, and some can exist as town/scum or third party. But I think we've ruled out having a third party in this game.

[boxxy]

Got you.

Goofball is scum.

I investigated CDB on the second night and learned his role. If he actually used his ability that night, my investigation would have failed.

When CDB asked me which night I used my action, I lied. I suspected that he was looking to see if he could claim that he used night 2 like goofball just did. So I said I investigated him night 3 and gave him the chance to claim his action on night 2.

I still have no idea why there wasn't a night kill on night 2, maybe Goofball can tell us before he gets lynched.

Vote: DrippingGoofball

[boxxy]

Sapo, get in here and hammer this scum.

[boxxy]

Shuri, why are you being reckless and keeping reck (lol pun) at L-1?

Well, for one he's the scummiest and pretty much scum slipped.
I've also been under the impression that because he's the werewolf that

if

he were town that he'd be able to kill someone who voted for him. Making him the safest mis-lynch and the most scummy at the same time. In fact his death would ensure a mafia kill so long as he didn't go for me. But I don't see where I got that idea from.

UNVOTE: Reck for now.

If Werewolves are town, can they kill someone who has lynched them?

Shuriken why are you attacking reck for mis-reading the role PM when you did exactly the same thing and used it as justification for keeping him at L-1 until pressured about it? Why is his statement a scum slip but your statement just a mis-read?

[boxxy]

thank you for pointing that out and removing any chance I had at drawing the NK tonight

Reck you claimed you were trying to draw the night kill, but now you're claiming that you mis-read the role PM. Explain.

I'm not. His confusion with the role was the same type as mine. I have not even looked at my role PM since the game started and have been using the first post to reference roles. Tell me, what was exactly a slip about what I did?

[boxxy]

Sorry, I was waiting for shuriken to come back. I'm pretty sure he's scum but I'm going to finish re-reading his iso before I vote.

[boxxy]

Sorry, really busy at work right now, will post later tonight.

[boxxy]

I'm currently attacking shuriken's

reasoning

for calling that scumslip. My original intentions still stand, but I'm currently arguing that the reasons shuriken is using to call it a scumslip are bullshit.

This didn't answer my question. We're you trying to draw the NK or were you actually confused about your role?

[boxxy]

Just finish me off Boxxy

k

Vote: Shuriken