Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[pirate mollie]

hi guys!

new to the board not new to mafia.

I am not liking maenara's fade.

smashbard stood out on p1 but it was interesting to read hikari's soft support sandwhiched between some hard foses. have you guys played together in a previous game?

@hikari

Because he made something that's not scummy at all into a scumtell

where did he do this?

[pirate mollie]

Headache. May not have read everything properly yet, so I'd like to stay out of the Smashbard-Hikari-Pacman threeway of unreadable-to-newbies-ness for now. Might give that an extra careful read tonight, but more likely it'll be tomorrow or Wednesday. For the rest:

VOTE: Unvote

Eleison is playing poorly, but bad town-play is bad-townplay, not scum-play. I don't like the reaction, and I'm going to be extremely distrustful of any roleclaim made by <pronoun of choice>, but it's not the most scummy thing I've seen yet.

That, you see, goes to...

VOTE: pirate mollie!

Not-so-subtle attack at the person who RVSed you - by indicating that they're lurking, no less, in spite of it only having been roughly 21 hours since said person's last post, and the majority of said hours (Read: About fourteen) having been spent asleep or engaged in that fearsome thing we know as education - followed by an attempt to link together two other players, making observations and poking for reactions, but not committing to anything at all.

You say you're not new to Mafia? I say you're scum.

lol, worst OMGUS and revenge vote ever!

[pirate mollie]

eta: oh and do you have a question for me or are you just going to ride on the mischaracterisation of my 1 post?

[pirate mollie]

maenara is eleison your scum partner tell the truth don't be shy

[pirate mollie]

are you going to answer my question or what

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: maenara

[pirate mollie]

VOTE MAENARA

[pirate mollie]

*deletes*

^^Ninja'd

@Mollie - Can we have some logic to go with that question? It might help the rest of understand your "conclusions"

this one?:

eta: oh and do you have a question for me or are you just going to ride on the mischaracterisation of my 1 post?

I thought it was pretty self explanatory. or are you talking about my obvious baiting of maenara omg as if he would say yes or something.

[pirate mollie]

However,

discussing my reads on who I think is town is irrelevant

, as it doesn't actually help find scum. I'll stick to primarily posting reads on scum, kicking a few heads to knock sense back into the picture, and voting for who I think is scum, or who I think will inevitably draw out scum.

I strongly disagree with this, I think it is always good for town to find each other that is how town wins games by voting as a block.

what makes you think that maenara and I are both town.

[pirate mollie]

smashbard stood out on p1 but it was interesting to read hikari's soft support sandwhiched between some hard foses.

Can you quote what you're talking about here?

in post #10 smashboard looks like he grabbed the ball, that is why it stood out. in other words he started controlling the narrative a bit at that point.

in post #41 you hardcored all over smash's ass but here you went kind of soft:

That basically gave McStab a free ticket out to be sarcastic.

I'm not saying that if McStab didn't have that post he would've been super serious or sarcastic--but you can't really apply it if nothing happened.

Anyway, your tells are wrong as well. It varies from person to person and the two spectrums are answering the question and not answering the question rather than how the person answers the question. If the person gives a straightforward answer (ala yes, no, simple one word stuff) then the person has a very slight townread. If the person dodges the question by trying to make a sarcastic answer (Well, I can't tell you that.) or completely ignores it, then the person has a slight(though greater than the town read) slant toward scum.

Also, reminding the person about the question invalidates most of this stuff as well. This is a tad bit overkill for something very minor in the end.

those are things I would expect a mentor to say their mentee cos this was kinda good stuff. that is why I asked if you guys had played previously together.

This is a bad reaction.

If I had a second vote, it'd be on Pirate.

does it not look like maenara did an OMGUS revenge vote yes or no

EWBOP: Let me restate that last bit on Pirate.

Pirate. You probably have played

a

game of mafia.

Do not think you can waltz in here and be scumhero numero uno.

You're probably last at this point.

whoa bro calm down. I am not trying to be anything, I am playing a game. what are you doing with your sputtering that only contributes to the noise level?

trying to do 2 things at once: figure out the dynamics of the mafia culture on this site and figure out the dynamics between the players. I am also setting out feelers and testing things out. but your defensiveness is noted.

[pirate mollie]

Uhh, ok. Perhaps you want scum to know exactly what it is that you're thinking? If you're outing all your reads as to who is town as well as scum,

you are giving scum exactly what they need in order to shift their gameplay to act more like those who you consider town, blend in,

and be more successful in forcing mislynches

while going along unnoticed

.

and you think that would not be noticed? lol

also "blend in"

Whereas, if you focus on finding scumtells from players, and highlight those instead of all the towntells that you and everyone else may have, then scum isn't at liberty to just start acting like the guy you and say, four others, designate as Town. They have to figure it out for themselves,

which means they're more likely to shift their tone or shift their thought processes or make ridiculous leaps in logic in order to try to appear town

.

scum usually do this regardless if you say who your town reads are or not. that is what makes them look scummy.

it has been my experience that voicing your town reads closes scum's options for later in the game doing a 180 on a player. note what I previously bolded. not to mention that when town starts to come together scum will usually fall apart.

Simply put: Point out that the "Bad guys" are "bad" by finding evidence against them, and voting for them/FOS'ing them (if more than one is evident). It's hard for bad guys to blend in when you're not pointing out why the "good guys" are "good". Just keep those thoughts to yourself. If it's that obvious to you, it's likely obvious to other players as well.

again "blend in"

I think I've seen enough that I have a few suspicions as to who I believe is town, and who I believe is scum.

As for me thoughts on you and Mae being town? Let me restate what I've already said, in more of a little chart.

Who I will openly declare that I think is scum:
Telo (for #88 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4323911 and #93 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php? )p=4324085#p4324085
EvilPacman (for #78 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4323297

Who I used as a form of a scapegoat, to find scum:
PMysterious

Who I think is town:
None of your business.

lol, have you ever tried triangulating with/or as a scum? the exchanges stand out like a bruise.

lists always help I think cos players are accountable for their changes later in the game. as in they have to make sense. it helps with scumhunting.

[pirate mollie]

oops messed up the quote tag. "I think I've seen enough..." is where eleison started.

[pirate mollie]

Who I think is town:
None of your business.

Once I'm done with theo, your buddy, you're next. Then Pirate and then Russian Roulette.

Everyone loves games, so let's play that one after the hard work is done.

hey there was a question for you!!! xx

does it not look like maenara did an OMGUS revenge vote yes or no

[pirate mollie]

I'm not convinced by Eleison's plan either. @Eleison, you say you don't want to reveal your town reads but you also tell Mae and Mollie to stop intown bickering. Does that imply that you have a town read on them both?

I don't necesarrily have a town read on them. I just want them to stop bickering as if they were. Because I really don't see it actually moving anything forward.

wait a minute, I placed a vote on maenara how is that not moving the game forward

[pirate mollie]

No?

is this based on meta or wishful thinking

[pirate mollie]

I'm not convinced by Eleison's plan either. @Eleison, you say you don't want to reveal your town reads but you also tell Mae and Mollie to stop intown bickering. Does that imply that you have a town read on them both?

I don't necesarrily have a town read on them. I just want them to stop bickering as if they were. Because I really don't see it actually moving anything forward.

wait a minute, I placed a vote on maenara how is that not moving the game forward

Tell me though, how is that helping to scumhunt?

maybe you coud start by expaining why placing a vote on a player you find scummy is not scumhunting?

I am genuinely confused by this.

[pirate mollie]

I'm finding Jun, Telo and Pirate scummy at the moment. I will elaborate more when I'm off work. PMysterious, its page 6. You better have some reads.

fos this. you are going after low hanging fruit.

I am new, telo is new (saw her in intros) and jun kind of reads as fairly new. do you seriously think that the gm would have 3 newbs as scum against a wall of experienced town? while I generally think that reverse engineering the gm's brain leads to madness, it looks like you are trying to stack your options for a future lynch with a possible bus somewhere in there.

will be interesting to see what you come up with.

working on my own wot.

[pirate mollie]

newb mistakes

lol, I thought that maenara melted down after I merely mentioned him so I found that scummy. I said a "a slow fade" and he took it as "lurking". the two cannot be transposed within the context that I meant it so it looked like it was a deliberate mischaracterisation (which I asked about and he has not responded to!). lurking is passive participation and a "fade" is not.

whenever someone declaratively states that they are "so sure" so and so is scum, after one post I tend to think of them as scummy or they are being retarded town. to me, his response was an overreaction despite my having him in my town pile with post #12.

if you want to have a go at me, then here it is: upon a reread I think that maenara was responding in a pressure cooker kind of way. given the feedback I am putting him in my unsure/town pile for now.

I am totally backpedaling on him.

unvote maenara

[pirate mollie]

There has been alot of antitown overreacting to pressure on people from the start. Its hard to tell with experienced players whether its aggressive play or scumminess.

Say, Jun flips scum. I could better believe Hikari is scum due to his instant defense

.

lol, wat.

the first sentence does not predicate the second so I am not following you here. unless you are making a case based on meta that I cannot see.

[pirate mollie]

To Pirate Mollie: I would draw the conclusion because Hikari jumped to Jun's defense when Evilpacman tried to call Jun out as scum #1. I would not LIKE to draw that conclusion, as I actually find Hikari to be very town at the moment, if only abrasive. It's going to be hard to work with him to create a confirmed town lynching block later in the game because he's so anti-everyone's opinion other than his own. But that doesn't make Hikari himself, scummy in my eyes.

that is some fancy hedging you have going on there smashbard.

As I was trying to elaborate earlier via my phone, at this stage in the game it is going to be near impossible to lynch experienced scum. You have to catch their less experienced partners, then look at the interactions from the previous day, who was on what wagon, and try to draw correlations from the lynch as well as any information gathered through the night.

okay. but ftr I like to take out the head before the ass.

This may be a vote just based on not liking your play, but I just have a really bad gut reaction to you, Mollie. And in times like Day 1 where I don't have much to go off beyond my gut, I need to follow it.

Unvote. Vote: Pirate Mollie

I think your gut is telling you that you shouldn't have eaten that five day old pizza.

[pirate mollie]

eta: also why is your vote on me if you suspect jun

[pirate mollie]

I don't really have a tangible answer for that beyond the fact that your posts just give me a very nervous feeling that you may be the highest likely candidate to be scum. I know it's not much for anyone else to really go off of, but I just have a really bad feeling about you. I even fully admit that it could just be that I don't like your playstyle, but I don't know yet. All I know is that I feel you are extremely scummy.

So I'm going against the vote I want to do (Jun) and going for the vote I feel like I should be doing (you)

.

you know there is really no defense against "I just feel bad about you". that you would follow this over your more concrete analysis of why jun looks scummy (and I see why he does but I am neutral on him) is pretty amazing. why don't you like my playstyle? I am by all means certainly no worse than hikari for the shit talking and your reaction kind of looks xenophobic (and scummy) especially since you had 3 newbs in your scummy pile. that is what I was highlighting cos I think it is scummy to go after low hanging fruit.

Post #64 you refer to Maenara’s fade, which really doesn’t make a lot of sense no matter which way you spin it. Because either way you’ve insinuated, that he showed up with a fire and then faded out all within 21 hours of posting. There’s really no other way you can infer the term fade. Unless you someone have seen his haircut.

your whiteknighting is noted! I am still trying to feel my way around the arc of an untimed game. most of the games I have played have been timed so 21 hours IS a big deal but I was talking about his slow fade. he came off as town pretty strong right off the bat and then did a fade except when roused out of his slumber and he votes me

for mentioning him

. like immediately.

Post #66 Is where the real uneasiness from you started though, as you seem all too excited for that OMGUS, as if Maenara just handed you a tell on a silver platter or something, when OMGUS isn’t really indicative of anything town or scum.

okay. I think OMGUS

is

indicative of an alignment it depends on the situ and maenara melted down over nothing.

In Post #97 you mischaracterized the exchange between Hikari, Evilpacman & myself. First, I wasn’t controlling the narrative,

I was merely apart of trying to get us out of RVS as early as possible

. Once that happened I ended up taking a step back when more abrasive attitudes started flaring up. Also, the portion of Hikari’s post you quoted as “mentoring” me was actually him referring to evilpacmans reads being wrong when it came to how someone answers an “Are you scum” question. Also, noting Hikari’s defensiveness when your immediate jump on Maenara for voting you is the definition of defensiveness, is unnerving.

lol, wrt bold: what do you think controlling the narrative means. and controlling the narrative and then taking a step back is usually a scum tactic. you grabbed the ball in post #10 at the get go and now you are going after low hanging fruit (all newbs), lol.

I agree with post #100 when you say that town reads are useful for narrowing down suspects. But I also cannot deny Eleison’s point that openly stating town reads will only give the scum a better idea as to who they can lynch in order to demoralize the town by eliminating town leaders

struggling to parse this. is it typical of this site that a bunch of people who read a person as town to then lynch that person? that isn't the impression I have been given although I never underestimate retarded town.

That's probably my guess why guys like Eleison & Hikari are being as rough as they are, because it's sometimes better to be the unpopular town that knows what he's doing than being Mr. Super Town who's going to get shot Night 1. So if you’re the scum my gut is telling me you are, then I can definitely see why you’d be pressing Eleison so much to post their reads.

lol.

"pressing"

ftr I don't think either eleison or hikari are being rough, after reading some of the newbie games hikari is a breathe of fresh air. and I like eleison (leaning town on him) although his reasoning is super weird. as town it is better to share your thoughts unless you are playing in a homogeneous group who know you super well.

[pirate mollie]

not the newbs

[pirate mollie]

eta: I think newbs in this setting

should

be gone after but not for reasons like your gut is telling you that someone is bad or you don't like a playstyle. go after someone you find objectively scummy.

[pirate mollie]

List them.

who am I listing again

[pirate mollie]

List the players who are not low hanging fruit.
(I do not count)

players possibly other than the newbs that smashbard listed as to who he wanted lynched. I thought I made that kind of clear?

[pirate mollie]

so slander what do you think of smash?

[pirate mollie]

Work does not end at 1:40pm unfortunately.

I want my list Mollie. It's a very simple request;
List all the people in this game you consider not to be newbies or 'low hanging fruit'

hikari
smashbard
pacman or whatever he is called
pm
mcstab
pretty much the people who smash did not have in his lynch pile!

[pirate mollie]

oh and maenara, he seems sacred to people.

[pirate mollie]

eta: I think newbs in this setting

should

be gone after but not for reasons like your gut is telling you that someone is bad or you don't like a playstyle. go after someone you find objectively scummy.

[pirate mollie]

lol. so what do you think of smash's scum list hiraki?

[pirate mollie]

hikari
smashbard
pacman or whatever he is called
pm
mcstab
pretty much the people who smash did not have in his lynch pile!

oh and maenara, he seems sacred to people.

OK so these 6 out of 16, fine.

I think 3 of those shouldn't be there but we don't need to worry; your perspective is different than mine.

Do you suspect one of the named players? who? why?

And Smash doesn't count unless you suspect him for something other than the '3 newbie scumreads'

not sure.

hiraki resorts to emotional manipulation. would like feedback if this is typical of him regardless of alignment.
smash is doing exactly what I expect scum to do: go after low hanging fruit. I would consider this a scum newb mistake for someone who has played a 5 to 10 timed games format. not sure how it matches up within an untimed game tbh.

also where are mcstab and pm.

pacman is engaged, not sure on him yet.

smash is whom I am going for I think.

[pirate mollie]

I do know OMGUS is scummy.

Hello Thurhame, It's not.

do you seriously think that the gm would have 3 newbs as scum against a wall of experienced town?

The pms are completely random basing your reads on things like this is just plain bad.

Now you know this; how does this affect your perspective on things?

There are so many newbies its actually quite hard reading through what is newbness and what is scum in this game.

VOTE: PM

Think PM is just scum here. Lurking out his RVS wagon is majorly scummy; hes been posting onsite etc, his tone matches his scum-tone.

wrt bold: thanks, good to know.

wrt the italicised: I am going to do a reread later and come back with a more in depth analysis keeping that in mind. I know most gms use random.org but I also think that most gms will reroll if the alignment of players will end their game in three days.

anyway that is another convo which is probably better to have at another time.

I still think smash's list is shit. he might have one but not all 3 and certainly not me.

thanks.

[pirate mollie]

lol. so what do you think of smash's scum list hiraki?

I don't really care?

hiraki resorts to emotional manipulation. would like feedback if this is typical of him regardless of alignment.

Yeah because my emotional appeal is so great

hey guys

my dog died

now kill theomoaner

because i'm sad

see, that'll work because i'm sad

and others are sad for me

and therefore i'll get my way because i'm a deeper emotional hole

Yeah, AtE is rarely found to be true. No one falls for emotional tricks unless they're just bad at the game. They fall for logical fallacies.

I said emotional manipulation not appeals to emotion there is a difference or do you not get that. one way is to repeatedly tell someone their game is shit without ever bothering to inform them as to why exactly you think so or correct their line of reasoning oh gee who does that sound like. these people want other people to stay stupid so that they can remain unreadable. those are the shittiest games to play IMO.

also I am a chick so when you refer to me as a he I keep thinking you are talking about someone else

@slandaar do you guys triangulate on here?

[pirate mollie]

do you guys triangulate on here?

What does that entail?

triangulation is when 2 players who have town reads on each other start a dialogue comapring their scum/town piles and bring in another player and form a consensus and then vote as block. they do this in order to control the lynch since town usually moves in herds. it is a very effective strategy since town's main way of eliminating scum is through a lynch.

I have only a played few untimed games so not sure if it would work in this format but I would to try it.

I want to triangulate with slandaar cos he is my strongest town right now, he is cutting through the chaff and I don't think scum would go out of their way to help a newb get out of their very wrong reasoning especially a newb that no one seems to like, lol. if he were scum, I would think that he would just let me get lynched instead of encouraging me to think in a different way.

I want to see if he will work with me and then see if we could bring hikari in since he has a town read on him and I like some of hikari's responses.

triangulation is a good strategy and I have noticed that town wins more games when they do this than not.

[pirate mollie]

I'm really having trouble getting any reads on quite a few of the players here. However, after doing a few Isos in a feeble attempt to be able to do anything at all, here's what I've got.

Spoiler: Town (Strongest to weakest)

Hikari
evilpacman18
Slandaar
McStab
Smashbard
Telo
Thurhame
Jun

Spoiler: Scum (Strongest to weakest)

NJAC
Eleison
pirate mollie
Jun
Theomoaner

Spoiler: Needs more activity

Dividizzle
Shinori
PMysterious

Why, then, do I vote for Pirate Mollie? Because she's bad for town. Like, terribad. In all seriousness, I don't get why she's allowed to continue to exist. She's slinging around accusations based on concepts she clearly doesn't understand,

she was straight up lying, concerning me "fading", and she's trying to game the mod

. It's just not something we should allow to continue. If not a lynch, I plead for any hypothetical vigilante or similar to put her out of our misery - I know that some might say that her flailing will allow us to determine her alignment on a later day, but all too often, on other sites, I've seen hordes of people with play so bad that one cannot possibly tell their scum from their town, because both are just that anti-town. She really is the typical VI.

And if not Pirate Mollie, then NJAC or Eleison. For the latter, a policy lynch would be appropriate, what with deliberately causing anti-town WIFOM with the hinting and all, as well as the theorycrafting. As for the former...

Look at his ISO. He is definitely not saying enough, chooses to defend a person he sees is under attack in order to establish later town-cred. When then accused of this, he keeps doing it in order to not attract attention by altering his play, but still defends himself against the allegations, before proceeding to... Vote for the person attacking his accusor, calling said person opportunistic and then being so himself?

Methink this is scum trying to establish some town cred for later use.

first off why do you have jun in both your town and scum pile?

secondly, I did not "lie", to me it was a fade YMMV.

speaking of anti-town, it is anti-town to policy lynch and to ask the vig to take out a player whom you think might be town. I am noisy but I am not

that

noisy and I am seriously trying here. I haven't called anybody an idiot.

[pirate mollie]

jesus christ I am sorry for the grammar errors in post #214 god that is embarassing.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie, what happens if multiple groups start triangulating?

I haven't seen that happen much, most scum distance themselves from one another and town seems to follow in a herd. that is what usually stands out.

the caveat is when scum seizes the ball. town who are feeling unsure will follow cos scum's logic will seem reasonable. that has to do with the control the narrative that I have been banging on about.

[pirate mollie]

Triangulating doesn't seem good to me.

What is your opinion on it Jun?

interesting

why not

[pirate mollie]

It is just a compromise lynch with a glorified name. Using it at end of day if needed is probably OK but I don't see a need for it when you should be compromising anyway at that point if not on the main wagons.

you can derive a lot of info from triangulation attempts as in scum are usually pretty uncomfortable with it since it provides town accountability and it has the potential of town working together.

but okay. you don't want to do this I guess.

[pirate mollie]

Who do you think is scum Mollie?

maenara and strangely telo come to mind. I don't like the way that eleison keeps shutting down the convo but I think it is an inexperienced player who will play more like an indie than to know how to cooperate with town.

thurhame stands out by his

not standing out

.

you thinking triangulation was not a good idea clanged.

are you still on with the PM lynch. to be honest I would like to hear as to why they have a bad rep.

[pirate mollie]

Who do you think is scum Mollie?

maenara and strangely telo come to mind. I don't like the way that eleison keeps shutting down the convo but I think it is an inexperienced player who will play more like an indie than to know how to cooperate with town.

thurhame stands out by his

not standing out

.

you thinking triangulation was not a good idea clanged.

are you still on with the PM lynch. to be honest I would like to hear as to why they have a bad rep.

looking back on my notes I had mcstab's post #33 as a clanger cos it looks a bit like special hunting as in he is trying to see if PM will flail. (specials flail worse than scum do IMO)

I also spotlighted evilpacman in #53 - can't remember why and I had jun down as scum. I also wrote down asking why did hikari not follow up on his fos on mcstab.

[pirate mollie]

okay. I have been nightkilled in another game cos the SK is retarded but it has moved me into hyperdrive about this game. I am about to do a 180 on some of my reads maybe that will liven things up.

I am going to have to work backwards and weed out who I think is scummy by who is in my town list and who I am unwilling to lynch.

slandaar - for reasons already stated.
hiraki - cos I am trusting slandaar's read on him and I like some of his responses.
smashbard - cos who the heck votes based on their gut. town thats who. scum are too busy trying to come up with logical reasons for their very (usually) retarded votes. at the time smash voted for me I think he really wanted me lynched but I think the peptobysmal is working. smash let's kiss and make up and work together down the line! xx believe it or not I can be likeable at times.
maenara - I am thinking town cos she was the first to post a list in an organised manner. scum usually avoid lists cos it can often incriminate their teammates by who they have in their town pile and who they in their scum and how they stack them. her wanting me dead just to get me out of the game when she thinks I might possibly be town is super duper scummy it shows a complete lack of regard for a town win condition but I am leaning town. retarded town, but I am tentatively putting her in my town pile. (and no I am not calling you a retard, you seem pretty intelligent, but your reasoning is stunted)
eleison - nobody in their right minds would make such a spectacle of themselves if they were scum IMO. his scum buddies would be telling him to shut up by now cos he is drawing a lot of attention to himself and he really stands out.

those are the players I am unwilling to lynch at this time.

so that leaves:

evilpacman
mcstab
theomoaner
thurhame
NJAC
shinori
jun
pmysterious
telo
dividizzle

dividizzle - just feels right. it is the timing of his responses I think. I don't feel confident enough to move him to a solid town read but I am kind of leaning town on him and kind of want to put him in the above pile.
telo - makes me nervous. not sure why.
themoaner - didn't like how he tried to reframe my low hanging fruit thing I had going on with smash. I am not trying to paint myself as a newb if anything my confidence is probably off putting to some people. I am a newb to the site not new to mafia, but I still consider myself low hanging fruit since this is my first game on here and there is no meta. hiraki also made a good case for him making a RVP into a scumtell. I could get on board with his lynch.
pmysterious - I understand why slandaar is voting for him he needs to either be subbed out or start posting. avoiding the game thread when you are scum is a common thing when you are uncomforable with being scum. slandaar I will probably be voting with you. would like to hear the story about his rep though.
thurhame - his "oh hai!" post should have stood out but it didn't. his posts come across as neutral, not seeing a lot of commitment in them tbh.
evilpacman - all I have in my notes is that #28 is crap but I don't remember why.
jun - I had him down as scum but again I don't remember why.

evilpacman, jun and mcstab are the 3 players who's posts I am going to look at in isolation and do a think on for now.

that leaves shinori and RJAC...so guys whatsup? let's talk.

[pirate mollie]

@Mollie - your suspicions on me are based on gut, or what exactly is the case?

@Smashbard - I'd want you to fix your quotes in 220. But let's suppose I'm defending Jun, so you think that makes me scummy and makes Jun scummy by association, right? How often do scums defend their scumpartners in such a blatant way, according to your experience?

lol, I didn't state any suspicions I said whats up.

VOTE: NJAC

[pirate mollie]

slandaar. I thought we were going to work together.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie; you have not played on this site before?

no

I thought I already said that.

[pirate mollie]

it is. sorry I brought it up.

slandaar what do you want to see I have played across several boards for the past 2 years most of them have been timed games.

one of the reasons I joined this board was to escape my meta for instance on one site I have been the default n1 scum kill for a year and a half.

eta: it is an ongoing game discussion cos it is still going on and a couple of players on this site (not in the game) are on here so no. I can link you to other games I suppose but I am wondering why you are backtracking on your read on me.

[pirate mollie]

some people need the tautology

[pirate mollie]

well the SK just got lynched so it really doesn't matter!

peeps, if the scum don waves at you in the game thread your only recourse is to cooperate with them taking down the don in order to gain town cred is dumb cos there are more of them than you and what I know my teammates know. as the mayor I would have made sure that SK was not lynched and as scum that she was not night killed if she would have worked with us. I would have ensured she met her win condition killing me was stupid and I am still pretty butthurt over it.

slandaar here is the game:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/mafia ... 34349.html

you are gonna have to join the site in order to view I think. the game day started off in 2 threads and then they were merged. interesting mechanic. I am in the palantine thread.

but anyways I was scum in that game, I am town in this game why are you backpedaling on me first rule of triangulation is that you don't packpedal on your town pick until d3 or d4 and you haven't found scum.

[pirate mollie]

reading pacman's posts in iso:

I don't know why I thought #28 was crap it is good advise I am thinking I meant #78 that may even be what I wrote down. he is stoking fires wrt the moaner and soft wking pm. he hasn't voted anybody yet nor is posting anything with conviction despite him saying that is something he does in post #44.

putting pacman in my scum pile.

[pirate mollie]

shinori: you mean post #37 was a serious vote? cos in post #206 you implied that it was. your wording in #37 indicates otherwise.

also your tracking on eleison looks staged. don't know how many times I have picked a tard fight with someone whom I knew would get distracted but not get lynched but stayed on them anyway as scum.

you are my strongest scum read atm.

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE: NJAC

my vote for you was an instinctive reaction cos you have misrepresented a couple of things. but your posts in iso look kind of townish. I can see town motivation in #143 and #183. your wking of jun looks more townish than scum buddying up. there isn't a heavy bw on him/her and it just does not read like you are sowing seeds for a future flip.

[pirate mollie]

5 poast combo!!!!1!

hiraki, slandaar, how do you guys feel about a shinori lynch?

[pirate mollie]

why not

[pirate mollie]

who are all of your targets cos I forget

[pirate mollie]

shinori in post #37 it reads like a joke RVP vote but post #206 it is like you are trying to make it serious what is up with that

[pirate mollie]

I never once said I was joking. I just had a joking manner because I felt like joking around. I never said it was an RVS or a joke vote though, you just made an assumption.

okay you made a joke but your vote was sincere but you couldn't be bothered to distinguish between the 2 on a site where most people's first post and first vote is typically treated as a joke/getting to know you vote? cos that sounds squiffy. and you haven't stated as to why you found mcstab scummy in the first place nor why you still wanted his lynch in almost 150 posts later.

I think you are scum shinori.

VOTE: shinori

[pirate mollie]

so what are your feelings now about mcstab and why did you find him suspicious in the first place?

[pirate mollie]

what 3 players would you be happy seeing lynched at this time?

[pirate mollie]

eta: I know PM but who else?

[pirate mollie]

I don't if there are 3 scum or not I am asking you for your 3 lynch picks so we can try to form some sort of town cohesion by looking at our choices.

[pirate mollie]

*know

[pirate mollie]

no.

why do I always look scummy when I am town when I am scum I never have this problem it is like fucking herding cats.

[pirate mollie]

then why isn't your vote on him huh slandaar huh HUH?

[pirate mollie]

I am not understanding the contradiction here. where did I talk about fake cases.

[pirate mollie]

But before I start, I want to bold this statement.

Everyone needs to stop bringing up bad “low hanging fruit” arguments to defend themselves from suspicion. You are not getting any sympathy from me.

This is my second SECOND game of Mafia on Mafiascum. The first being Newbie 1864, in which I was scum, and won. Go check it out if you want meta on me, and I will answer any questions you have pertaining to my play. This is what a responsible player is going to do in this game. Address concerns against them and, if town, will help redirect suspicions towards those who are actually scummy. I’m not going to fall to my knees and plead for mercy because I’m “low hanging fruit”. If I get heat on me, I suck it up and fight back as best as I can. That’s what you should all be doing too. Not falling back on “Sniffle, I’m just a newb and you’re picking on me! Sniffle sniffle”.

let's cut through the chaff.

as far I know I am the only one who brought up the low hanging fruit argument and that was not to defend myself but to say that I think it is scummy to do that and that it is also just good scum strategy to go after the people you think are the easiest to lynch and on d1 newer people tend to attract more attention. I have had to pull people off the newbs and more often than not the ones who lean the hardest and make them meltdown and out their role are usally scum so yes, I see it a scum special hunting tactic. my method of scum hunting is to point out scummy behaviour.

Looked really antitown in the beginning trying to be Hiraki Jr, but Post 79 pretty much summed up why he was I understand why Eleison doesn’t want to share town reads, it makes sense if you are playing this game on your own and don’t know who you can or cannot trust. But I will say that I do not share that philosophy, as openly stating reads of who you think is town/scum is crucial in the early going as it helps us identify connections between players based off of flips that happen later.

I think there is at least one opportunistic scum on the Eleison wagon at this time taking advantage of an easy situation because it’s so simple to just say “He’s hiding information, must be scum!”. Or the much more ridiculous “He agrees with Mae, he must be scum!”. Unless you have a scumread on Mae, you can’t accurately say that Eleison is scummy for agreeing with him.

Post #147 definitely exposes Telo as scummier than most. More on that in the Telo ISO.

Posts #263 and #269 utterly annihilates Shinori’s case against him based on meta. So this, more than anything, solidifies my read on Eleison.

Read at this time: So Town he might as well be a metropolis.

I agree with a town read on eleison but for entirely different reasons. I maintain his teammates would be either beating him up or bussing him relentlessly and I am not getting that. his play is coming off of as not being familiar with working as a team rather than scummy based.

EvilPacman:
I had a pretty solid read as Town for EvilPacman in the beginning as he was active, similar demeanor from his most recent town games and was able to answer my questions quickly and effectively. Post #78 is bad. Seems like he was trying to backtrack into going “Oh by the way, theo is scummy”. Probably leaning more null than scum on that, but it reads bad. He says he’s conservative with his vote, but he goes very quickly from not feeling Theo is scummier than Jun, to voting for him based on very little pushing from Hiraki, to unvoting him again and going back to Jun. Since then he’s went nearly a hundred posts without saying a thing of value. Which has really shaken my early town read on him.

Read at this time: Null leaning Scum that’s focusing too hard on early RVS play by Jun.

[/quote]

I have read his posts in isolation and I am leaning neutral to town, there is town motivation in his posts. I think he is trolley tracking, to use a familiar equivalent to his term "tunneling". also why are you saying he has written a hundred posts since then cos he hasn't.

what else do you got.

one of the things that I always find hard to do is to tune out town noise.

and what do you think of jun. would you consider triangulating with her?

shinori and the moaner are on my list and I think mcstab is too. he is going after dividizzle for the most tenuous of reasons where there is meat in the game thread to really sink one's teeth into. I am only leaving hiraki alone cos slandaar has a town read on him but tbh, IMO hiraki is taking a back seat and that makes me sus. hiraki should be grabbing the ball and he isn't and he is also being sticky with his vote while pushing for a deadline. I don't buy his lazy town comment that struck me as scummy.

[pirate mollie]

But to quickly answer a question, no I am not considering triangulating with anybody. That would be too dangerous this early in the game as that means you have to have a great level of trust in someone you have nothing more than a gut read on with no evidence to back up your claim that they are town. Trying to triangulate this early is dangerous because it gives scum the chance to "confirm" themselves by just looking like trustworthy town and being apart of a block of players that won't lynch each other because they are too busy trying to lynch everyone else that looks scummy to the group hive mind.

Trust me on that one, I was scum in my last game, and nobody in the world who thought I was scummy stayed alive long enough to make a case on me. Nachomamma, Bodean and Myself in some ways created a town "block" and started voting people based off of bad process of elimination logic because gee, nobody in our protown block can be scum, right? When I was scum the entire time. Don't trust anyone to triangulate with you unless you are 100% sure they are town, it will be your downfall.

lol, I like to win games and triangulation is a very effective tool in winning strategy-based games. I imagine in works on this site's culture but something that I have found to be true is scum's avoidance of the game thread that is why slandaar's vote on PM made sense at the time.

you guys were able to work together to form a cabal of your own and controlled the lynch. somebody in town should have noticed that and started looking at the cabal, lol. anyway I was less into the voting as a bloc aspect at this time and more into having a convo amongst 3 players to see how it goes. scum usually avoid the dialogue cos they feel exposed especially in a pressure cooker environment of a timed game but I wanted to try it out and see if it worked here.

I fully expect yourself, Jun, Shinori and other "We must triangulate" posters to jump down my throat and say "He's hesitant scum who doesn't want to form a block with us, how anti-town of him, let's lynch em!". And to that I say, bring it on. I know where I stand.

dude, I am the only one who is onboard with triangulation, jun just seemed interested and I don't think shinori has an opinion either way. stop with the hyperbole and mischaracterisation, you are in my town pile for now but when you do things like this it makes you look scummy to me so plz stop doing it!

anyways it was just an idea, I like to start on d1 cos on some sites I am nked very early and I like to try to maximise the amount of info that I can get for my team. this is a team game after all.

[pirate mollie]

You didn't. You think hikari's "case" based on my RVS vote is a good one, "...on a site where most people's first post and first vote is typically treated as a joke/getting to know you vote..". You have to admit it is a little bit contradictory isn't it?

okay now I see what you are banging on about, I forgot that you had said that it was an RVS vote. fair enough, I see your point.

You name what amounts to a list of the newest players in the game here in your scummiest target list. Yet here we have a completely different list, and interestingly, two of the players on your original list haven't posted since. So just why are Telo and Thurhame not not scum anymore?

in post #241 I am clearly stating my approach to the game which is that I am starting from whom I think is town and work from there.

the people that I mentioned are not in my town pile so yes I want some engagment with them so I can get a read. also I think it is just good town play to look at the people who are not as active and are not asking to be subbed out cos you will often find scum there.

not sure what problem you are with this except that you seem to think that if I say newbs are low hanging fruit and then I soft fos a newb is a contradiction, when it isn't since I am not directly going after them, I am SOFT FOSSING THEM. I think going after newbs is a scumtell but I do not think that everyone who does it is scummy, town does it a lot.

when I read posts I look for the motivation behind the posts (scum or town) and to see if it is consistent with the flow of the game.

[pirate mollie]

Not read the walls will do that later

then why isn't your vote on him huh slandaar huh HUH?

I think Mcstab is town because in his first few posts he was acting as the townleader, he had a plan and it was fairly good at the time even though not something I use.

So, why would I vote him?

misread that I thought you were saying that you thought mcstab was scum. I didn't get the town leader thing from his posts at all which is probably why I got confused. he might really be busy IRL although more than not I have found that to be a scumtell and I think his case on dividizzle is extremely weak. dividizzle's post #240 looks pretty town to me.

[pirate mollie]

lol. circling the wagon.

I bet scum win more games on here than town. vt btw bet it is glaringly apparent!

voting for someone you believe is town just cos you don't like them maenara is just flat out anti-town. I think especially in an untimed game. wondering if maybe I was right with my first post as to who stood out which would be ironic cos the whole reason I joined this site and wanted to play in a completely different environment was cos I wanted to get past things like second guessing myself!!!!1!

it has been a long time since I have been the d1 lynch but the last time I was it was in an untimed game too and the reason was similar cos there was a bottlenose of info provided at the time in the game thread.

but anyway, good luck town!

[pirate mollie]

You have

3

votes on you.

MAYBE 4.

I guess you're gonna die now.

I guess.

lol, out of all of that exchange you manage to leave out that maenara stated that I was at L5.

obfuscation is scum's tool and I don't think it is feigned. why are you leaving her alone hiraki.

[pirate mollie]

there is a question for you hiraki

[pirate mollie]

Since nobody else feels it's important, I'd like to point out that Pirate Mollie is at L-2.

Speaking of which.

Unvote Shinori

.

Mollie, if you are lynched and you flip town, who are some of your biggest scum reads at the moment? Are they or are they not currently on your wagon?

My list has you as null leaning town. So think of it as a dying wish. Who would you prefer we look into the most if you die today? Of course if I'm wrong and you flip scum none of this will be relevant. But I'm of the suspicion that your lynch at this time is based on policy and not anyone really feeling you're scum.

thanks smash.

yes I think scum is on my wagon. I keep reshuffling my pile cos there is some super scummy things going on.

maenara - I can't decide if scum or retarded town. leaning scum. also she never answered my question as to why she had jun in both her town pile and scum pile.

jun - her vote switch looks terrible. leaning scum.

hiraki - he has done a couple of things that are scummy for instance his fade then re-emergence to get in on the bw early. I think his taking offence to the word "little" and him in the same sentence to be funny since he called everyone "motherfuckers" from the get go. looks like scum emotional manipulation to me.

I don't like mcstab's case on dividizzle. thurhame and telo are not getting their hands dirty. you having your vote on shinori but putting them in your town list pings hard.

[pirate mollie]

holy cow, the moaner, your whole case in post #379 falls apart when you take what you cherry picked and apply it context with what I said. "new to the site not new to mafia". this isn't the first time you have done this it is why I find you scummy. mischarecterisation and misdirection is the #1 tool of scum. I explicitly said that I was scumhunting from who I thought was in my town pile out, telo and thurhame were on the periphereal. your weird fixation and persistent reframing of this looks scummy.

@ smash

Because you cannot say going after newbs is a scumtell is town does it a lot

. A scumtell by definition, tells you this is something scum will do, and you use it as a tool to out scum when they do it.

you most certainly can cos town will drop a lot of objective scum tells too. I have met very few players who play a super clean game. scum will go after low hanging fruit but so will xenophobic town. the 2 are scummy but the motivations behind the 2 will be different. scum tend to do it more often the reason they do it is consistent with their win condition (try to get town to lynch town) so that is why it is objectively scummy.

But I certainly can't deny that a Mollie flip is probably going to give us the most amount of information at this point because Mollie has had interactions with just about everyone.

I am in total agreement here that is why I am not fighting my lynch.

more moaner stuff:

This is really poor reasoning, agreeing with someone is the worst possible reason for clearing them. Scum will target anyone who they can get a wagon going on, and for that they are going to look for "reasonable" overlaps and common targets.

no it isn't. it is one of the best ways of finding town. people who tend to say exactly what I was thinking at the time I read their post and I am town tend to be town. this is a very hard thing to duplicate as scum and it comes down to phrasing and timing. not many can pull it off which is why I consider this a town tell rather than a scum tell.

[pirate mollie]

Oh dear. Yes town can drop scumtells, how else could mislynches happen?

but a scumtell is specifically something that scum are much more likely to do than town, not something that scum and town do in roughly equal measures

. Otherwise what use is it for finding scum?

that is what I said.

you most certainly can cos town will drop a lot of objective scum tells too. I have met very few players who play a super clean game. scum will go after low hanging fruit but so will xenophobic town. the 2 are scummy but the motivations behind the 2 will be different.

scum tend to do it more often

the reason they do it is consistent with their win condition (try to get town to lynch town) so that is why it is objectively scummy.

hth

[pirate mollie]

@Maenara: We waited 2.5 days for those comments? Please do better.

Numberguy could easily be scum.

Hrm

what part of sticking to the plan doesn't fit well with you?

Was that meant to be a reaction fishing post? or are you just trying to frame Salandaar when you flip scum?

Guys, Thurhame is town. Believe me. We have bigger fish to fry at the moment. Like mollie and PMysterious.

Why are we to believe you? Also, it would be nice if you were to present some sort of case on these "bigger fish" that we need to "fry".


Why are we still on day 1? We have a confirmed liar in the town

(Mollie was logged on earlier but declined to comment on my accusation of blatant lying)

and we have not lynched. I know it's good and town-like to be cautious but you can take it too far.

P-edit: @Lottery-Number-Dude: I can live with that. I still think your slot is scummy though.

wrt the bold: I answered you in post #393. who is blatantly lying now.

[pirate mollie]

And post 325, which also makes no such explicit claim, unless I missed it of course. You have now gone from contradiction to blatant lying.

Doh!, This is where I accuse you of blantant lying which you delined to comment on Mollie.

slandaar asked me who was in my scum pile and I went with the predicate of who was *not* in my town pile since I clearly stated that is what I was working from. those were the people who were NOT in my town pile at the time and who's posts I was looking at.

[pirate mollie]

OMGUS

@Hikari: You lost any right to tell me what I should or shouldn't call you when you decided to call everyone "twats".

@Mollie: It would be helpful if you could quote where you

"clearly stated that is what I was working from"

.

post #241

I am going to have to work backwards and weed out who I think is scummy by who is in my town list and who I am unwilling to lynch.

[pirate mollie]

I've expressed an interest in working with Mollie several times but other than to identify me as an easy target she's ignored me all game.

I hope she hasn't given up because her level of participation provides plenty of game fodder. I'm willing to vote for her for several reasons:
1. If I vote for her she's at L-1. That's sufficient pressure if she wants to live she'll reengage.
2. If she has given up, we gain what information we can from her flip.
3. I don't see my vote on mysterious doing any good.
I will change my vote as soon as I get to a computer and can format.

your latest posts look more town to me.

I haven't given up up. but I am not fighting my lynch either cos I do think it will provide a lot of info.

who is standing out to you right now?

I have smash and slandaar in my town pile even though I vascillate with the paranoia but I am going to stick with my reads.

[pirate mollie]

Reread the latest page(s) and rewrite, please. Your data is outdated.

I don't feel that it is Maenara, especially in light of her last post where she reiterates that she will not fight her lynch. I don't like the wagon on her and really don't want to jump on it so I'm going to hang back for a minute and see if I can get anymore to go on.

who is standing out to you right now?

I'm still liking Mysterious. He says he'll give out reads after page six and still nothing. I placed my vote on him and all I got was "I'm still here" in response.

That's not good enough for me. I'd much rather leave my vote on him than move it to you but I don't think my lone vote is enough pressure.
For now I'm going to stick with my reads as well. My vote will remain on Mysterious and I'll keep watching your wagon for developments.

okay so what do you think of the numbers person and jun.

[pirate mollie]

Slandaar, you are really misrepping me now.

I never said I don't know what a scumslip is. But what I thought was a scumslip clearly differs from what you think is one. In my eyes, a scumslip is any mess up, regardless of alignment. I feel like I'm quoting someone at this point, but town is capable of slipping up as well, and on my second game exactly that happened. Conman, who ends up being town, says something very stupid and nearly gets lynched over it.

town is capable of scummy looking behaviour but a scumslip is only done by scum. hth

[pirate mollie]

I'm out of patience with your scum stalling. Are mollie and Numbers your scumpartners that you're not willing to buss? Serious question.

wtf is this shit you had a town read on me like 2 minutes ago

you wouldn't be trying to set me up for tomorrow's lynch would you?

[pirate mollie]

Mollie you have been very quiet re NumbersGuy

Why?

cos I don't see where he made a scum slip. I see someone who does not know exactly what a scum slip is which is why I corrected him.

[pirate mollie]

Its called pressure mollie. With Telos reluctance to help the town he's being very scummy. Maybe by temporarily putting the crosshairs on you and numbers as his partners he could be forced to vote differently.

you don't pressure a player by saying another player is their scum partner unless you really believe it especially when you had them as town. not a good strategy IMO can't see how town wins games by doing that unless there is a lot of info to be gained from the specials.

[pirate mollie]

I swear nobody can even mention you without you flipping out. Even if youre town you should probably be lynched just out of policy with how defensive you are.

uhm no, I haven't really flipped out. trust me when I flip out you will know.

I am struggling to understand your sudden waffle on me without a trail and I am really frustrated cos I really want to trust my town read on you.

I already said I am not going to fight my lynch cos I agree it would provide the most info. but stop misrepresenting me and stop with the hyperbole.

[pirate mollie]

Thats not a reason.

Not a town reason anyway.

who are you talking to here?

[pirate mollie]

lol, just because I disagree with you does not make me scum it means I disagree with you.

buldemar stands out to me more than numbers person.

[pirate mollie]

^ directed to slaandar

[pirate mollie]

@Mollie (and anyone else who thinks Numberguy didn't scumslip): What did you think of Thurhame's play (without referring to newb 1269)?

thurhame was on my radar only because they did nothing to get their hands dirty. their posts read as "safe". not scum not town, totally neutral.

numbers guy misstep of the use of the word "scumslip" reads as an honest mistake. I suppose it could be read as a scumslip but I am not quite getting that. his easy vote on me struck me as odd but only cos I know how I will flip. it seemed like an easy vote in order to push the game into closure at a time when it really wasn't condusive to town (I think he put me at L1). the latter is more of why I think he might be possible scum not the former. he is in my unsure pile.

[pirate mollie]

lol, just because I disagree with you does not make me scum it means I disagree with you.

buldemar stands out to me more than numbers person.

Would you mind elaborating on that?

this:

Slandaar, you are really misrepping me now.

I never said I don't know what a scumslip is. But what I thought was a scumslip clearly differs from what you think is one. In my eyes, a scumslip is any mess up, regardless of alignment. I feel like I'm quoting someone at this point, but town is capable of slipping up as well, and on my second game exactly that happened. Conman, who ends up being town, says something very stupid and nearly gets lynched over it.

There is a difference between scumslip and scumtell. Your example is a case of the latter of the two.

cos I do not think that misunderstanding a term is a scumtell town can do this just as often.

if you would have made a case on that they tried to move the bw to a point of closure I could wrap my head around that otherwise it just is just parroting what has already been said and I find that followy.

[pirate mollie]

That's all on the premise that it

is

a misunderstanding. How can you determine with certainty that it's a misunderstanding? Suppose the opposite premise: it's

not

a misunderstanding. This leads to his alignment being skewed towards scum because, given this premise, he'd never have a reason to mention it as town. It has to be a misunderstanding quite often (hypothetically speaking) to justify not voting.

I read it as a misunderstanding wrt to scum or town. what I am saying is I think he was genuinely confused about it but it isn't indicative of his alignment. good players should be able to read that. his pushing a bw on an unpopular player does look scummy

You finding me followy means at least two things: 1) you've

definitely

not been looking at my latest game, which means that you're either a scum who already knows my alignment in this or a town who doesn't want to dedicate the adequate time to make a psychological profile on me. 2) you have no idea what you're talking about.

lol.

I don't feel the need to read your previous games I would rather rely on this one for now. if we are both alive by d3 then I will cos it will be more pertinent but right now I am going by what is relevant in this game and it would not have an impact on my thinking unless you think in your previous games you were followy too.

but wow.

[pirate mollie]

The thing that is really baking my noodle here is that in the games I have played on this site I have hardly seen mention of the term scumslip, yet in Number-dude's two games on this site there is much disscusion of the term. I'm trying to decide whether this is why he doesn't understand the term, or whether it was clear from the references in the newbie game's as to it's meaning.
I think in one of his newbie games (1244) the meaning of "scumslip" is made

very

apparent, so I don't see how he would really have a different meaning from everyone else.

Oh no, I just did meta

can you link the post(s) since you have apparently done the research

[pirate mollie]

@Mollie: to quote or link would be a serious TL;DR, just view his topics and search for scumtell and scumslip.
[opinion] Both are used sufficently for any reasonably intelligent person to realise that there is a difference, and what that difference is [/opinion]

I don't get what you mean by Thurhame being a "safe" player.

I didn't say thurhame was a "safe" player I said their posts were safe. by "safe" I mean they read as neutral as in they were nonconfrontational and they looked pretty careful.

I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I am not opposed to his lynch at all for the reasons I have already given; thurhame stood out to me cos they

didn't

stand out and at some point they should have. they never moved to the center in fact it looks like they were avoiding it. is this making sense now?

[pirate mollie]

Mollie you have been very quiet re NumbersGuy

Why?

cos I don't see where he made a scum slip. I see someone who does not know exactly what a scum slip is which is why I corrected him.

Thats not a reason.

Not a town reason anyway.

lol, just because I disagree with you does not make me scum it means I disagree with you.

buldemar stands out to me more than numbers person.

OK for those who don't see why this is so damning;

Mollie is very vocal; to not say a thing on the subject of Numbers (read: it does not matter the opinion) sitting quietly ignoring it is a major scumtell as it is the most major event in the game not involving her.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mollie

Numbers lynch is fine they are probably just buddies. Mollie is scum though.

slaandar epeople who make declarative statements in a mafia game with zero evidence. you are going to hurt your cred with my flip.

wrt bold: that is meta analysis and you do not have enough of my meta to make that call. so your case and declarative statement are basically shit.

but here is some meta for you go have at it:

divagreen:

http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=166
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=573
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=643
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=643
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=867
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=980
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1025
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1188
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1235
http://mindromp.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1288

the site is pretty new so there have not been a lot of games on there, I have played a lot more games at talk rational and rational skepticism. mindromp the games do sometimes get more analytical and unless you get tr you won't get the mafia on there. I also play at theorama, freethought forum and I played at rationalia when they had mafia. I have played over 70 timed games but only 4 untimed. so how about you go and read up some games and then come back and tell me what my meta is.

I am new to this site and my hanging back is more of me trying to get used to how you all do things on here and I figured the best way to do that is to watch and observe and not interfere with the process. <------ good town play for someone who is new but it is probably going to take a good town player to figure that out.

[pirate mollie]

^ holy cow. I am at a point where I could go for an eleison lynch.

eleison I no longer think shinori is super scummy I have my vote on them cos I simply haven't moved it yet.

slaandar in the sherlock holmes game I am playing as danny not divagreen. danny is my mentor's account and he let me have it for that game while he took over someone else's. it would have been awesome if we could have found someone to take over mine but we ran out of time.

[pirate mollie]

themoaner do you ever do anything other than cherry pick people's posts and address them out of context? seriously.

I asked slaandar if they triagulated on here. telo asked me what is triangulation. so I explained what it was. there is pressuring people to adopt them, I was

explaining

the cost/benefit/use of the tactic.

I am not just "hanging back" obviously, I am fosing, stirring things up and drawing a lot of attention to myself do you really think that scum would do this? I don't.

the hanging back in

context

is wrt the numbers situ. not the entire game itself.

[pirate mollie]

Yes of course that is all I do Mollie (that was sarcasm in case you couldn't tell).

Do you ever do anything other than contradict yourself and then backpedal like mad?

Like Slandaar says, you have managed to have an opinion about most other things that have happened so far in this game (and meta be damned I'm playing this game, not all those others), so why are you so keen to "hang back and observe" in the case of Numbers?

And do I think that scum would draw attention to themselves? Yes I do, I've seen it many times.

moaner is one of your scum tactics to quotemine someone to the point where they want to commit mafia suicide by going all emo and self voting cos I must admit it is highly effective I want to slit my wrists right now. <---this is my sense of humour btw before you get all fumey over it. no but seriously. quotemining is a huge scumtell and you have been doing it like crazy hence why I think you are scum.

I was going to put myself out there to hammer numbers person when we were ready to move the day forward since I am not concerned with how I look. he had reached 8 at one point but then someone unvoted.

the trouble I am having is the whole scum slip thing that slaandar made up and I am not the only one. if we are going to lynch him I would rather it be for thurhame's neutral (too many neutral looking posts point to scum IMO, cos they are ebing super duper careful about how they post and their win condition is based on survival) posting and the numbers person non-existant case on me. like, let's lynch him for scummy behaviour and not over his confusion of his use of a term.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie I agree that we shouldn't lynch over the scumslip itself but I think his defense has been poor. His play has seemed more scummy to me than Thurhame was.

I AGREE WITH THIS ENTIRELY!!! is anyone actually reading my posts!!!

although to me thurhame stood out more with the neutral posts but I think we just have different ways of determining the degree of what is scummy. our mileages vary.

what do you think of eleison and moaner?

same question to you smash.

[pirate mollie]

hey moaning mcummerson moaner, do you have an opinion on smash or not or you going to continue to deflect.

[pirate mollie]

if you are scum then wow good job at somehow hiding your quotemining bs in plain sight.

if you are town then I am pretty sure the only way we will win will be by accident.

[pirate mollie]

I highly doubt that theo. Mollies fighting against Numbers lynch has really made me rethink Mollies alignment. But if numbers flips town against all odds I would almost guarantee Mollie is town.

wanted to respond to this while doing my reread.

how is me saying saying I was going to hammer numbers "fighting his lynch"?

also you are misrepresenting me by saying that I have fought against all bws, I have mostly been voting

with

you, you retard cos you have been my strongest town read but jesus fucking christ I am losing it cos of you hyperbole and outright misrepresentation.

[pirate mollie]

Ok, as you can't be bothered to decoded whether #575 was for me, I'll assume it was, and I'll even answer it.

I have an opinion about everybody.

That good enough for you? I mean it's not like you ever asked me for my opinion on Smash at any time in the game. You're just accusing me of deflecting, why exactly is that?
While we are on the subject of deflecting, not answering questions and the like are you going to answer these one's that I actually asked you, and not just invented as a way of trying to make you look bad.

If quote mining (what ever that is) is such a huge scumtell for you then perhaps you should really be voting for me?

Another interesting thing for me, and I'm not going to use quotes here, is how you asked me to link to the bits of Numberguys newb games where scumslips and scumtells are discussed. I've done this (partially), you haven't commented on them after making an issue of it. Why?

I'll assume #578 is about me too and address that, so that I'm not deflecting.

Hey nice accusation and AtE there scumollie. What is this super-fuck-off-big scumtell "quotemining" all about? I've never heard of it. Can you give me an example of me doing it? Maybe not because, after all, I've hidden it so well that it's in plain sight.

Talk about flailing scum.

moaner you are right, I didn't ask you about smash, sorry about that I retract the accusation.

I will ask you now: what do you think about smash?

also I read a little bit of the links you provided, thank you, I didn't read them all but I can still see a newb confusing the term. what you should be looking at are other things that has been my point all along.

quotemining is taking a quote out of context and distorting its original intent.

you have been doing that to me all game. but you what it is starting to feel like a town on town tard fight.

besides me what else have you noticed?

general note:

I am starting to find slaandar's raging hard on for me to the exclusion of others kind of creepy. I either vastly overestimated his skill level or he is scum going for an easy lynch.

[pirate mollie]

Numbers was never at L-1 so you couldnt hammer if you wanted to. And if he is scummy enough to hammer hes scummy enough for a vote. Which you havent done.

I thought he was at 8 at one point.

So you've basically already admitted that you will only vote opportunistically, and with how hard you argued with Buldermar over Numbers scumslip you obviously didnt want him lynched

. So youre a liar too. Consider any town read I had on you rescinded.

more misrepresentation and you will have to live with the consequences with my flip but seriously if you are town you need to stop this shit this is what scum do not town.

there has never been an "obviously you didn't want him lynched" moment I will post it in block letters so that you can read it

if we are going to lynch him I want it to be for the right reasons cos I don't want to support retarded town play

.

[pirate mollie]

pirate mollie, I think you have been very inconsistent with a) your opinions of other players in general and b) your voting relative to your statements and expressed opinions of players and their respective alignments. While I'm not entirely sure if this is simply because you're afraid of getting "locked" into a particular read, it does come across as scummy behavior to me. Regardless, what you're doing is not conducive to finding scums. Simply put, because

you're being so inconsistent and "all over the place"

, anything you say cannot be used directly against you. There will always be something else to counterbalance it. This is especially deconstructive as the game goes on and days becomes interrelated. This, in conjunction with your inconsistency looking scummy to me, is why I'm going to vote you. I'll elaborate upon request.

VOTE: pirate mollie

best reason to vote me really. but being all over the place is not necessarily scum motivated I have found town to do this more than scum. scum tends to be stickier with their foses and hold back. think about who is standing back and watching town eat its own. plz plz plz remember this if you are town. also watch who picks up the narrative tomorrow.

also willing to self vote if you guys think that is what it takes to move the game forward some of you people can suck the fun out of a wet dream.

eta: scum has pulled out I think. I think they are lurking and watching town on town action.

[pirate mollie]

@buldermar

so is there a no lynch if town does not reach a consensus? untimed game question.

I think I am a good choice for a lynch with town floundering. it is 24 pages so far but I think that I have mined enough for my team. I am leaning towards town on town tard fights in the last few pages but it is hard to be sure. some people need to actually employ logic before they claim they are doing so.

[pirate mollie]

eleison
shinori
jun

[pirate mollie]

hiraki cos he is skating

[pirate mollie]

@pirate mollie

From rules:
"5) If you don't lynch before the deadline, that's a shame."

I took that to mean that that the leading lynch would be lynched.

I think your time dedication distribution is suboptimal. I strongly recommend that you read the few lines of rules there is.

lol

Also, a statement such as "I think I am a good choice for a lynch" is ALWAYS flawed, because no matter what your alignment is, it hurts your wincondition.

If you're town, ANY other lynch is by definition better. If you're scum, ANY other lynch is by definition equally good or better, and insofar this is a game of incomplete information (it almost always is), ANY other lynch is by definition better. PLEASE read this a few times, it's an important concept. At this stage of the game, it's NEVER good to self-vote or getting lynched.

wrt the bold: you do realise you are treating me as town right? and yet your vote is on me?

disagree about it working against my win condition and I am drawing a ton of flak. I think we need me out of the game in order to remove the noise. people are voting me for terrible reasons and obviously my gameplay is a distraction.

[pirate mollie]

am I lynched?

[pirate mollie]

You can post when you die till MOD confirms flip/starts night.

that is what I thought. most sites a gm calls the night round not a player unless it is a timed game and the gm states in the thread no game play after such and such time.

it kind of sucks to be dead cos I was really looking forward to the social aspect of the night round.

[pirate mollie]

hhhmmm....not sure what the protocol on answering that is? I don't want to get hellbanned cos I did something out of ignorance.

telo I saw you in intros and I have kept up with a couple of games you are in and I think your gameplay is on the right track although it looks like you are often wrong. I think you have the makings of a really strong player; it is the way you think. I am looking forward to playing with you. : )

[pirate mollie]

thank you for the game myko!

and doubly thank you for keeping company on the zombie board.

about the newb shit:

don't you dare blame the loss on newbs. I suppose I can only speak for myself but

I

tried, I was scumhunting like a mofo and got lynched for my efforts.

[pirate mollie]

yeah, don't you dare blame the loss on newbs, I suppose I can only speak for myself, but my being a giant douchebag to everyone was independent of my being new.

bwrv spotted

[pirate mollie]

Pirate Mollie Lynched for being anti-town by discrediting every wagon that popped up.

cos they were on town. how the fuck is that anti-town.

[pirate mollie]

eta: sorry but I hate getting lynched for stupid reasons and hate to see other players getting lynched for stupid reasons too.

[pirate mollie]

eta2: also it is just a game. I should remember this too.

[pirate mollie]

Pirate Mollie Lynched for being anti-town by discrediting every wagon that popped up.

cos they were on town. how the fuck is that anti-town.

Because it read to me as fence sitting, over cautiousness and purposefully stalling the game. Tactics I attributed to scumminess until I realized that everyone and their mother who was anti-town this game was actually town. Hence why I feel bad in the first place. At least in your case. lol.

see this is where you are wrong. not everyone was anti-town. you seemed to put things in the anti-town category when they really didn't belong there.

I am sorry I did not send you a strong enough signal to you that I was town but goodness knows I tried. you were my strongest town read on d1 even though I waffled on you a bit.

but cheers. maybe we will have better luck next time.

[pirate mollie]

I agree with theo, buldermar, I thought you played pretty well.