A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Magua]

The sum entirety of my case (that is, the reasons I would vote you) at this point are that your posts are so much more defensive in nature than actual scumhunting, and you've tunneled on Zdenek-who-I-read-as-town.

The amount of content you have that is not concerned with either of these two topics is really tiny.

[Thor665]

And yet, still plenty.

But, yeah, I have spent a lot of time pointing out how bad the scum vibe on me is and also pushing for my top scumspect - that is absolutely true.

[AurorusVox]

@AV

- you are polling opinions on me and Thor, but what is your read on Thor? You mention him a lot, but i don't remember how do you read him.

I have him as town from my initial readthrough, hence why I'm voting you instead of him.

And you forgot to answer my yesterday question. In 3744 you mentioned my words from a Day 2. When did you read them, since during the reread you stoped on page 13?

I suspect people are skipping my posts. I searched the words "fake claim" in the topic search bar, and read through to get an idea of whether fakeclaims were modprovided. In the process I found that post...

~~~

@Thor
Okay, but the word "except" implies a case exists, right? You've reacted against a case, however bad or terrible or "unlike a real case" it was. So when you're asking for a case to respond to, do you think you're going to get anything different from before? The people making the case obviously believe it (or are scum). In that respect, what's your read on Minimum?

Or is it just so that you can show to all of us who are not voting you that we shouldn't just hop on your wagon?

~~~

@Pandora, in a kind of "too good to be true" vein? I can dig that. But if it's just one of Thor/Zdenek + Kortul, who do you think is the remaining scumbag? Before you had it being Thor, Zdenek, 4nx plus Kortul as the fourth -- if you're so sure on Kortul, why didn't you have him as one of the primary three the first time around?

[AurorusVox]

Oops missed tagging this one on the end

In this post you call Kortul Stannis-scum; you give reasons for all your reads except this one. Can you explain how you decided he was Stannis scum? Also, could you re-evaluate given 4nx's Aegon-flip, or at least tell me if the "one of..." reads can apply to Stannis scum in place of 4nx?

Reading how Kortul talked about both bvoight and Salamance on day one, it's not too likely that he's Aegon aligned. Well, considering we know they were split up, this isn't the strongest point, but it makes him being scum less likely. On the other hand, I don't see Stannis scum sticking their necks out and voting Thor like he did at the end of the day yesterday.

So you've re-evaluated to Kortul-town?

That brings up even more difficult questions, because you're not left with anyone on your "Stannis" side. Which of the previously "Aegon-aligned" players do you think could fit as Stannis-Scum?

[Zdenek]

What are the other points?

They're in the same post where this one was. I can go look for his posts that I was talking about later, but why don't you try reading?

Avox, I'd say that PoE makes Kortul pretty likely to be scum, but it also makes minimum and Magua pretty likely to be scum. On the other hand, I think that Thor is more likely to be scum than any of these three, so I'd rather lynch him today, see what he flips and what we are left with tomorrow.

[AurorusVox]

So you have Thor as top scumread, with kortul/minimum/magua as all tied for the last two spots?

[Eddard Stark]

Day 7, Votecount 2

Thor665 (3) - kortul, Zdenek, Minimum

kortul (3) - Magua, AurorusVox, Pandora

Not Voting (2):

BBmolla, Thor665

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: 27th November at 14:30pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2012-11-27 10:30:47)

[Thor665]

@Thor
Okay, but the word "except" implies a case exists, right? You've reacted against a case, however bad or terrible or "unlike a real case" it was. So when you're asking for a case to respond to, do you think you're going to get anything different from before? The people making the case obviously believe it (or are scum). In that respect, what's your read on Minimum?

Or is it just so that you can show to all of us who are not voting you that we shouldn't just hop on your wagon?

You structured this sucker immensely poorly, but I'll try to respond in order anyway.

1. I see where you're going with the 'except' but when I follow it with 'things Thor would do as town or scum' I'm offering a pretty clear opinion of how those things matter. I do note that you aren't willing to call it a case yourself. I would direct you to look at Magua's 'case' currently (lulz). That's the type of dreck it has been all game. it's not a case.

2. Really I'm asking for a case as a defensive maneuver, I thought that was fairly clear. Because I don't think there is a case I'm trying to force people to put one into words. The fact that no one has tried bothers me, as I would have liked to have seen a semi-town glimmer from them - but as a defensive move it has worked excellently because it's showing how derp this wagon is even though people keep pushing it.

3. I'm still on the town side for Minimum. We'll have to see how I feel about Zdenek and Kortul after my current discussion, but that's where I was at Day start and that's where I am till I say otherwise.

4. Yes, an additional part of the defense is to point out how cruddy the case is so no one sheeps it - that's always part of any defense.

What are the other points?

They're in the same post where this one was. I can go look for his posts that I was talking about later, but why don't you try reading?

Because I'm lazy, and also it's more interesting for me to hear your thoughts than to hear my own.

I'm just trying to figure why you think a soft bussing action at the stage where two Goon buddies were on the block equates to a clear Kortul - I've got to talk to you to get that insight, it doesn't help me to go form my own opinion on it because the actual Kortul opinion is less interesting than the Zdenek opinion.

[Magua]

Hey.

Thor.

I'm going to vote you the next time you give a reply that includes "where's the case there's no case."

Deadly goddamn serious.

[kortul]

Hmm, what a strange day. Those whom i consider likely to be town do some questionable things, and Thor of all people did a town thing and unvoted.

In the best case there are at least 2 scum alive, in the worst case 4 scum alive, i suspect there are 3 out there. And Pandora without hesitation brings the wagon to L-1. You want to cut all interactions and end the day quickly? At least now i feel much better about Zdenek - he had a perfect chance to hammer me, and i doubt anyone would call him on this, given his yesterday reads.

And Magua attack on my request to Minimum is ridiculous. If you are town, you already know the result. And if you talk about logic, look at the night kills. If i were scum, why would i want Tyene dead, who was one of the few who sad nothing bad about me, or Plum/Nacho, who considered Thor scum? Killing someone like Pandora or Av, who are not likely to be lynched and who suspected me would be more logical.

I am not Pandora, and do not have a clear picture of who is who, therefore have to spend the time we have to try and find some clues - interactions of Mocking/4nx, reread of Thor, reread of Zdenek (less priority now). But the real life is more important, so this goes slow and won't happen right now. Those who are bored, know everything, don't have ideas what to research or want a speed lynch, go ahead - if you are town, acting without thinking is sure way to lose a game, and if you are scum, i hope you will expose yourself in process and will be crosskilled.

[Magua]

And Magua attack on my request to Minimum is ridiculous. If you are town, you already know the result.

That is

exactly

what makes your question to Minimum fluff and worthless. Right there. In a nutshell.

And if you talk about logic, look at the night kills. If i were scum, why would i want Tyene dead, who was one of the few who sad nothing bad about me, or Plum/Nacho, who considered Thor scum? Killing someone like Pandora or Av, who are not likely to be lynched and who suspected me would be more logical.

Why do you concentrate on Tyene, specifically, and ignore Plums Yo Momma?

I am not Pandora, and do not have a clear picture of who is who, therefore have to spend the time we have to try and find some clues - interactions of Mocking/4nx, reread of Thor, reread of Zdenek (less priority now). But the real life is more important, so this goes slow and won't happen right now. Those who are bored, know everything, don't have ideas what to research or want a speed lynch, go ahead - if you are town, acting without thinking is sure way to lose a game, and if you are scum, i hope you will expose yourself in process and will be crosskilled.

Right. I thought this yesterday about you, specifically, because I wanted your input in the 4nxi3ty lynch. Your resulting post was, and I'm paraphrasing here, "Pretty sure 4nxi3ty really had a rolecop on Regfan," which, let me tell you, was awesome to read and totally opened new avenues of thought to me. Then you ended it with "Eh, he's like maybe a little town, I guess, gaiz?" while totally ignoring the actual wagon on 4nxi3ty -- neither saying it was scum motivated or trying to get anyone off of it, despite it containing confirmed-town-Plum/Nacho.

[Thor665]

Hey.

Thor.

I'm going to vote you the next time you give a reply that includes "where's the case there's no case."

Deadly goddamn serious.

Are you going to call me a liar for saying it?
Because there is no case

But, seriously, unless you want to call me a liar and present the case that everyone has on me (which there isn't) then all I'm doing is saying the truth.
Also, this last spate - I was ruddy *asked* about my opinions on the lack of a case...so....yeah, the hell?

or Plum/Nacho, who considered Thor scum?

This is calling me town (or at least 'not scum with Kortul').
Discuss.

And if you talk about logic, look at the night kills. If i were scum, why would i want Tyene dead, who was one of the few who sad nothing bad about me, or

Plum/Nacho

, who considered Thor scum? Killing someone like Pandora or Av, who are not likely to be lynched and who suspected me would be more logical.

Why do you concentrate on Tyene, specifically, and

ignore Plums Yo Momma

?

[Magua]

No, I'm not calling you a liar, I'm saying your overdefensiveness is only useful to scum and is not useful to town. So if you're town you should goddamn stop with it.

Yes, I missed where kortul said Plum/Nacho because I was already angry over the attempted "If I was scum why would I do X?" defense he had started with Tierce.

[kortul]

Right. I thought this yesterday about you, specifically, because I wanted your input in the 4nxi3ty lynch.

And i gave my

thoughts

on 4nx lynch, and my view on his claim. You had a week to see it, and i had like half an hour in the evening for update and thoughts. And of course wagon wasn't scum motivated, since all my town reads were on it. That's why i asked for input after that, to see if i missed something, and only Nacho responded with actual content. Was it so hard to answer like he did? Do you want to discuss things, or snap at anything that doesn't fit your picture of reality?

or Plum/Nacho, who considered Thor scum?

This is calling me town (or at least 'not scum with Kortul').
Discuss.

Hmm? This is definitely not calling you town (unless you asked those who believe that i am scum). I think that you are scummy (yet you managed to surprise me with unvote), and Plum/Nacho thought that you are scum. You can figure out the rest.

[Magua]

And i gave my thoughts on 4nx lynch, and my view on his claim. You had a week to see it, and i had like half an hour in the evening for update and thoughts. And of course wagon wasn't scum motivated, since all my town reads were on it. That's why i asked for input after that, to see if i missed something, and only Nacho responded with actual content. Was it so hard to answer like he did? Do you want to discuss things, or snap at anything that doesn't fit your picture of reality?

You didn't give thoughts on 4nxi3ty, or the wagon. You gave thoughts on his name-cop usage, and concluded from that that you thought he was weak-town. Nothing about his play, or anything other than the namecop usage.

And you seem to not understand why I waited to ask your opinion. It wasn't because I wanted to convince you. I could give two shits about convincing you. Didn't need your vote. You giving an entirely superficial opinion and then asking, essentially, to be convinced is extremely scummy.

[Thor665]

Discuss.

Hmm? This is definitely not calling you town (unless you asked those who believe that i am scum). I think that you are scummy (yet you managed to surprise me with unvote), and Plum/Nacho thought that you are scum. You can figure out the rest.[/quote]
Nope, I'm kinda dumb, you'll need to help me with this.

You wouldn't, as scum, have killed Plums - because then you could get Thor lynched.
That's kind of a rathe rimplicit 'Thor is a mislynch/not on my theory team' comment.
How am I getting that wrong - it seems really obvious to me.

[Thor665]

Hmm? This is definitely not calling you town (unless you asked those who believe that i am scum). I think that you are scummy (yet you managed to surprise me with unvote), and Plum/Nacho thought that you are scum. You can figure out the rest.

Nope, I'm kinda dumb, you'll need to help me with this.

You wouldn't, as scum, have killed Plums - because then you could get Thor lynched.
That's kind of a rathe rimplicit 'Thor is a mislynch/not on my theory team' comment.
How am I getting that wrong - it seems really obvious to me.

[kortul]

That's why i said "

unless you asked those who believe that i am scum

". I am not scum, therefore that wasn't me calling you town, i don't want everyone else get wrong ideas.

[kortul]

Magua, i have a feeling that you were reading my yesterday post the same way you read today. This will lead us nowhere. If you are town, either snap out of this, or be ready to write down another lose point in your win-lose as a town score. Sitting in confirmation bias during the last days is the worst thing we can do.

[Thor665]

And Magua attack on my request to Minimum is ridiculous. If you are town, you already know the result. And if you talk about logic, look at the night kills. If i were scum, why would i want Tyene dead, who was one of the few who sad nothing bad about me, or Plum/Nacho, who considered Thor scum? Killing someone like Pandora or Av, who are not likely to be lynched and who suspected me would be more logical.

It still looks like calling me town or not scum with you to me.

You explain why the Tyrene kill wouldn't make sense coming from scum you, okay.
You then explain why the the Plums kill wouldn't make sense - and the answer is 'because I could have used him to help lynch Thor'

I mean, why does that prove you wouldn't kill Plums unless scum you would benefit from Thor being dead?
To benefit from me being dead I have to be;
1. Town
2. Not your scumbuddy.

This makes perfect sense to me.
What am I missing again?
I mean, I understand, obviously, you are not scum, and all of this was just theory to explain how if you *were* scum why you wouldn't do either kill. I'm just curious why theory scum you would benefit from a Thor kill - that's all I'm asking.

[kortul]

Your understanding is correct. I think i said that in my previous post to you (first sentence). Maybe i wasn't clear.

[AurorusVox]

Thor, isn't "town or not scum with me" essentially saying you are either scum or town...i.e. a pointless distinction to make?

[Thor665]

@Kortul - so to your mind I'm obv. town?

[kortul]

Thor, that's pointless. I am not scum. I do not belong to a group of those who think that i am scum, so your conclusions do no apply to me. And i told my current read on you on this very page already. I don't believe you don't understand this.

[BBmolla]

I like the Kortul wagon a whole lot more than the Thor wagon.