Retro Gaming Thread

This forum is specifically for discussing non-Mafia games (board, card, video, we're not picky). Playing such games should happen in the Mish Mash forum, of course.
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Post Post #0  (isolation #0)  » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:57 am

It simply is about time to have one of these in my opinion. We have a mega video game thread and a bunch of isolated threads for specific modern games, but we don't have a thread for the classics.

I consider a retro game to be any game that is part of the 5th generation of video games or earlier. Meaning that the gamecube, xbox, dreamcast, and playstation 1 games are off limits. The definition is most certainly up for debate, but try to keep this thread away from modern games (no call of duty please).

Running old games:
Running retro games can range from very simple to very hard. I consider myself to be more or less proficient in the use of DOSBOX (an expert by no means), however, I know very little about other emulators and can't proved any help. Here is a very brief tutorial on running old dos/windows games on modern systems.

Running DOS games:
I suggest DOSBOX: http://www.dosbox.com/
Create a file on your hard drive in a location other than program files (in windows vista and above) called oldgames.
Unzip/install dosbox into that folder preferably in its own file (C:/oldgames/Dosbox)

linux users can just install the pre-packeaged repository (sudo apt-get install dosbox) or a variation of that depending on your distro. mac users :roll: I don't know.

Spoiler: from game files
Now if you have all of the game files on your hard drive then the process is rather simple just place them in their own folder under old games, for example, C:/oldgames/AOD. Launch DOSBOX and type
mount c c:/oldgames/AOD
C:
Game.exe

Where c:/oldgames/AOD is the path to the game
and Game.exe is the executable of the game with a extension of .exe, .com, or .bat

You might have to tweak some setting for optimal performance. It is best to look on the dosbox wiki (http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Main_Page) for specific game settings. You might also have to run the game's sound setup in order to hear sound when you play.


Spoiler: from cd/floppy
If your game is on a CD/floppy it gets more complicated...
Mount c c:/oldgames -freesize 2000
Mount (d/a) (drive letter for cd/floppy):/ -t (cdrom/floppy) -label (the label that the cd/floppy has. Can be found by looking at in your file manager)

Where use d for cdrom mounts and a for floppy mounts in (d/a)
Substitute the drive letter of your floppy or CD rom drive you want to mount (usually d for a cdrom drive and a for a floppy drive)

next type d: or a: depending if it is on a floppy or cd
install.exe (or the instillation program on the cd/floppy)
Follow the instruction, however, when it asks you for the install directory just direct it to C:/gamename. It will actually install to C:/oldgames/gamename on your actual hard drive, but the game doesn't know that :wink:

Once the install is finished you can type:

C:/
cd gamename
play.exe (or whatever your game's executable is)

In order to play again you will have to remount the CD just as you did to install it except that you don't have to run the install program. You can eventually create a .conf file for dosbox that will automatically do this for you, but that is a discussion for another day.

Spoiler: "Problems Running a Game?"
1) Check to make sure dosbox supports it: http://www.dosbox.com/comp_list.php?letter=a

2) check dosbox wiki for answers: http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Main_Page

3) check to make sure that your dosbox options match up with your game settings. This mostly has to do with sound settings which can, ironically enough, lead to full game crashes.
I would suggest running the "Setup" or "sound set" utility that most games come with and setting the sound card to soundblaster or soundblaster16 if available. leave the IRQs/channels at their default and see what happens. If it doesn't work, go into you dosbox configuration file (~/.dosbox in Linux, Your installation directory (if I remember correctly) in windows) and makes ure that all of the sound related options match the settings in the game (or vice versa). MAKE SURE THAT THE "gus" SETTINGS ARE CORRECT!!!

Also make sure that the game supports the selected graphics card (listed under "machine" in dosbox settings). I have a few funny stories about selecting different graphics cards!

I would also suggest upping the "memsize" from 16 to 32. Especially if you are playing an older dosgame (duke nukem 3d, carmagedon, blood, etc.)

4) Check for a source port for your game. Doom, for example, doesn't run very well at all in dosbox. Instead, for the full dos feel, you should try running it in chocolate doom (but if you prefer a more modern feeling doom game try zdoom). I have also ran into trouble running duke nukem 3d in dosbox, so I found a great source port called eduke32 (might even have a 64 version now ) that runs flawlessly.

5) Still having problems? It might be time to try to virtualize. Read below how to vivtualize windows 3.1 without dosbox. YOu could also try directly virtualizing DOS using the same method.

6) That doesn't work for you? Well, you can always try original hardware. That will never fail :wink:


Spoiler: a few config changes that might help
In your dosbox config file (can be found from your start menu, or ~/.dosbox in Linux) change the default setting to the following:

output= ddraw (or opengl on Linux and mac. This will basically let you use directx to render the game. Or OpenGL...)
machine= svga_3 (if not already. This basically sets the emulated graphics card to be a good one...)
memsize= 24 or 32 (24 for will under all games. Use 32 for newer games that want to hog memory. Older games might not like 32 MB of memory)


a great video with the above tricks and more: http://www.pixelships.com/adg/epf003.html



Running windows games:


Spoiler: In XP or earlier
XP and early windows version (2000, 98, 95, etc.) are very much compatible with many, but not all, older windows games. All that you have to do is right click on the .exe file that you want to run, click properties, compatibility, run in compatibility mode, and select windows 3.1 or windows 95. It may also help to run it in 256 colors and at a lower more "classic" resolution. Some versions of windows (win 2000) have this properties tab disabled, in order to enable it just follow the instructions here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/279792

This method works perfectly for me 90% of the time.

Spoiler: for the 10% of the time or windows vista and beyond
You need to boot windows 3.1 in dosbox. Actually this is pretty simple now that we have pre built instillations that work like a charm. Simply create a folder C:/Oldgames/Windows IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DO NOT RUN THE PROGRAM FROM YOUR ROOT DIRECTORY (normally C:/)!!!!!!!! Unzip this: http://files.abandonia.com/extras/Progr ... DOSBox.rar into the C:/oldgames/windows folder. You will need 7-zip or winrar in order to do this (the default arcive manager in most linux distributions will have rar compatibility by default, Mac users ????). So you should have something like this:

C:/Oldgames/Windows/A bunch of files and a windows.bat file

Now simply drop the unzipped/copied off cd into the windows directory. If you have your game on a cd/floppy I would recommend coppying off all of the files into a folder, or mounting the cd drive along with windows and seeing how that turn out.

Now simply go to dosbox and type the following (amending depending on your hard drive structure as always)
Mount c c:/oldgames/windows
c:
windows.bat

Now navigate in side of windows an click "main". After that "file manager" and then you should see the folder for your game right there (if not, navigate to the root directory in windows). Double click on it and find the .exe file that you want to run and enjoy. If you need to install a game then just keep in mind that if you enter "C:/" as the install path it will actually install to "C:/oldgames/windows" on your actual hard drive.

If you have sound problems simply unzip this: http://files.abandonia.com/extras/Progr ... %20fix.rar

into your windows 3.1 directory. Enjoy!


Spoiler: For people who hate DOSBox with a passion
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/how-tos/happy_birthday_windows_how-_install_windows_31_virtual_pc
Will work for you. Just follow that guide. It might even work better than DOSBox.


Running Apple ][ games:

vitrual apple ][ website


Running commodore games:

http://c64s.com/
( I would love for someone to contribute to this)

Old consoles:

Some sort of emulator...
Personal favorite site for emulators:
http://www.emulator-zone.com/


Enjoy :nerd:
Last edited by CooLDoG on Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:00 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Post Post #3  (isolation #1)  » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:52 pm

Yes you do belong here.

ADG did a review of X-COM last Saturday: http://www.pixelships.com/adg/ep0098.html

If you name a soldier after yourself, he will be the first one to die in XCOM. Never fails.
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Post Post #5  (isolation #2)  » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:07 pm

I consider VGA/SVGA to be retro enough. But if you hate graphics...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry:_ ... d_Overlord

You can't go wrong with classic crpgs.
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Post Post #7  (isolation #3)  » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:11 pm

Best n64 game: Perfect Dark.
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Post Post #14  (isolation #4)  » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:34 pm

X-com isn't incredibly complicated once you get the hang of it. You must read the manual though:
http://cdn.steampowered.com/Manuals/776 ... manual.pdf

@gorchat, I prefer aces of the deep for my subsim fix.
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Post Post #22  (isolation #5)  » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:24 am

In post 18, inspiratieloos wrote:
In post 3, CooLDoG wrote:If you name a soldier after yourself, he will be the first one to die in XCOM. Never fails.

I never rename soldiers.... Still know their names and rage when they die though.
Also: So much fun reading this to someone who knows the game point by point and see them wince again and again.

I've been slowly playing through Apocalypse the last few months, the endgame sucks.

Everything from that link is 100% true. I rename soldiers in order to tell their strengths. Like if a guy has high accuracy I will add an "S" to the end of his name. If he has high strength I will put a "H" at the end of his name. Just stuff like that so I can load out my soldiers quicker and so I don't have to read over stats in battle.

Also, if a soldier has 10 moral, fire him immediately.
In post 16, gorckat wrote:
In post 14, CooLDoG wrote:@gorchat, I prefer aces of the deep for my subsim fix.


I've got Silent Hunter II in my GOG wishlist. Will probably snag it soon, since I'm getting an itch for it thinking about Silent Service.

AOD is better in my opinion. New silent hunter games have nothing on AOD. Not sure about SH2 though.
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Post Post #23  (isolation #6)  » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:27 am

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Post Post #25  (isolation #7)  » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:09 am

Sounds like tomb raider.
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Post Post #27  (isolation #8)  » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:52 am

Pretty sweet polygon graphics if you ask me.

The tomb raider I was talking about:
Image
Afraid of the dark is much older though.
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Post Post #31  (isolation #9)  » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:26 am

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/snes/
Any of those shouldn't be too hard to install.
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Post Post #35  (isolation #10)  » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:20 am

SNES emulators don't even require a bios, right?

Make sure that you have unzipped the roms Umbrage...
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Post Post #36  (isolation #11)  » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:21 am

In post 32, UberNinja wrote:I support this thread and its OP. Win sauce.

Did the windows/dosbox trick actually work? Do you have sound problems?

Also I added a quick old windows guide up there. Enjoy!
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Post Post #39  (isolation #12)  » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:53 pm

Can't be nearly as bad as:
Image
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Post Post #41  (isolation #13)  » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:20 pm

added link to op for an online c64 emulator. Their library seems rather extensive. Worth checking out for sure.
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Post Post #43  (isolation #14)  » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:07 pm

from gog.com?
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Post Post #47  (isolation #15)  » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:32 am

I'm not too much of a fan of platformers. However, Keen is a classic.
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Post Post #49  (isolation #16)  » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:21 am

Right now I'm installing Daggerfall with "playOnLinux". I wonder if it will just use Dosbox or if it will run through wine. If it runs through wine that will be awesome.

Just a poorly configured DOSBOX/ When it said it was downloading wine dos support and the file size was suspiciously the same size as DOSBOX I knew something was up.
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Post Post #50  (isolation #17)  » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:07 pm

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/how-to ... virtual_pc

A++ guide to installing a windows 3.1 virtual machine. I'm going to have to try it.
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Post Post #54  (isolation #18)  » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:44 pm

In post 51, Umbrage wrote:DAGOTH-UR IS FUCKING HARD

I WANT TO FINISH ARENA SOOOO MUCH

I'VE NEVER FINISHED A TES GAME BEFORE

BUT

WRAITHS

AND HOMOCULI

AND VAMPIRES

I NEED TO FIND THIS FUCKING KEY AND IT'S SO HAAAAARD

I'M NEAR TEARS

IF I WAS PLAYING BADLY I COULD IMPROVE

BUT IT'S ALL RANDOM, I CAN'T CONTROL ANYTHIIIIING

I beat the first two main quest dungeons and then basically stopped because it was too easy. Now daggerfall is a game I could play for days straight.
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Post Post #56  (isolation #19)  » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:19 pm

Try being a fighter type. Much easier.
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Post Post #65  (isolation #20)  » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:16 am

In post 61, Umbrage wrote:fighters have a bigger safety margin but once you're screwed you are SCREWED.

it might take more time overall with a caster but it's less of a risk

Moral of the story don't get screwed. Carry a fuck load of pots. Gold isn't an obstacle in that game because you can just walk into shops a steal stuff. There is no reason for you not to have 150 health pots. But to be fair, arena is swingy and I have played quite a few other classic CRPGs so it was easier for me to pick up and play.
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Post Post #66  (isolation #21)  » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:20 am

Also, keep in my I have played a fuck ton more of daggerfall (over 100+ hours just this year) so the information I am spitting may actually be fore daggerfall and not arena.
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Post Post #69  (isolation #22)  » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:04 am

What type of game do you want? There are a few old stand bys that I recommend:
Use this to play doom: http://www.chocolate-doom.org/wiki/inde ... olate_Doom
Simply drop 1 .wad into the unzipped folder (in windows)
Buy this game:
http://www.3drealms.com/duke3d/
And this one:
http://www.gog.com/gamecard/one_unit_whole_blood
That round shooters the shooters.

This game is good:
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/sid_meiers_colonization
If you can find civilization 1 you will have a great time, for now you can use free civ:
http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
X-com is A++: http://store.steampowered.com/sub/964/
ONLY GET THE ORIGINAL TFTD sucks.
I'm going to link to abandonia because this game is impossible to find: http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/359/A ... ation.html

As far as RPGs go you can't go wrong with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry
Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_box#Titles
Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_Ma ... eo_game%29

Again, you tell me what you want to play and I will give you a long list.

@umb, dagger fall it is ridiculously easy to steal stuff. I was thinking of dagger.
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Post Post #71  (isolation #23)  » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:31 am

In post 70, Om of the Nom wrote:Well personally I feel my normal choices of games are much too picky, so I'm trying to be open to anything.

Want something out there? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_Wo ... eo_game%29
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Post Post #74  (isolation #24)  » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:20 pm

Looks pretty sweet. I'll have to give it a whirl when I have time.
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Post Post #78  (isolation #25)  » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:32 am

Old simulation games are the bomb. However, I never played a "jane's" game. I have been told they are pretty difficult to set-up on modern rigs...
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Post Post #85  (isolation #26)  » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:21 pm

Yeah, gog is really cool. Might want to check the dosbox settings that they use though. I have found better performance with my own tweaks...
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Post Post #86  (isolation #27)  » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:18 am

I'm going to play one of my favorites: Aces of the Deep. All should really try to find a copy.
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Post Post #90  (isolation #28)  » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:48 am

In post 89, Claus wrote:What OS are you using? Steam's version of Xcom worked almost without problem (If I alt-tab away from it, it will go into windowed mode and I can't get it back to fullscreen). The Dosbox package from ubuntu won't play sound, though -- I will try a PlayOnLinux script next.

I'll look into this. There are many different versions of X-com some run in windows, other don't. I'll see what I can get to work.
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Post Post #91  (isolation #29)  » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:32 am

Pulled out old dos version and it works just fine for me... I would try the play on linux script for the gog version of the game. I have had good luck whit them.
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Post Post #93  (isolation #30)  » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:00 am

Alt-enter is the default full screen hotkey in dosbox. I'm going to try the gog script with play on linux when I have time.

The problem with x-com is that there are too many damn versions of the game, you never know what you actually have.

Ohh wait, I forgot that I don't have the gog version of the game because I already had it.
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Post Post #95  (isolation #31)  » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:29 am

Windows or Dos. Makes a huge difference. If you have DOS then you can read the OP and install. You might want to mount the CD whenever you play the game because it might have the audio that you are missing on it. Back in the old days we streamed music (and sometimes even sound effects) right off the disc.

Command should be something like
mount d d:/ -t cdrom -label Xcom
Where "Xcom" is what ever the disc is called in you file manager.
Then you have to mount the game...
mount c c:/dosgames/xcom
Or wherever you put it. Now you can run the game hopefully with music.

Also note that if you originally mounted you destination as "C:/DOSGAMES" and when using the installer typed in "C:/XCOM" as the install directory, then you MUST mount "C" as "c:/dosgames" and then type
cd xcom
so that your path looks like "C:/xcom"
instead of "C:/"

May or may not do anything. Also make sure that in your sound setup to select soundblaster as your sound card...

If it is a windows version... things get complicated (and I can't help as much)...
Try compatibility mode (windows 95, 98, or 2000. NOT XP. I have had problems with playing the game in XP). Try decreasing your resolution and color depth. And hope for the best. If worst comes to worst you can virtualize windows and play it off of that... (in dosbox or virtual box)
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Post Post #96  (isolation #32)  » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:31 am

Alternatively you could do what they say at this link:
http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/GAMES:X-COM:_UFO_Defense
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Post Post #99  (isolation #33)  » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:45 pm

In post 97, UltimaAvalon wrote:I've been to that wiki page and it is 0 helpful. I am able to install the game, so the mounting/installation instructions also isn't helpful. What happens is when running, it just says Program:INTRO at the top and I get a black screen of nothing happening

I had this problem when I tried the gravis ultra sound drive. Try messing around with your sound settings. Turn it to no sound and see if the game runs. Then go trial and error. You might have to go into the dosbox .conf file and see if these settings:
Code: Select all
sbtype=sb16
sbbase=220
irq=7
dma=1
hdma=5
sbmixer=true
oplmode=auto
oplemu=default
oplrate=44100

for sound blaster match the settings that you have in the setup utility.


And also check that these gravis ultra sound settings also match:
Code: Select all
gus=false
gusrate=44100
gusbase=240
gusirq=5
gusdma=3
ultradir=C:\ULTRASND


also, you might want to skip the intro.
Make a copy of UFO.bat.
Next open up UFO.bat in a text editor and delete
Code: Select all
%1intro                %1

save and then call up dosbox and run the game.
See if that helps at all. Pretty sure its the sound setting though.
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Post Post #101  (isolation #34)  » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:00 am

If you are supper attached to the gravis ultra sound then you can enable it in dosbox by setting the gus=false to true and the sound blaster-true to false. But I generally think sound blaster is the best.

Also, if all else fails just mash enter for the IRQs and stuff. I have generally found that the game's default is the dosbox default. If you run into problems then go check the conf file...

~edit, added short trouble shooting guide to the OP.
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Post Post #103  (isolation #35)  » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:46 pm

They are different sound cards. Dosbox emulates different sound cards differently. On your system one may sound better than another. Sometimes gravis may sound better, other times soundblaster may sound better. Generally though soundblaster is always a good default.
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Post Post #104  (isolation #36)  » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:08 pm

apparently duke3d is free on gog.com for two days. Worth checking out if you don't already own the game and/or if you don't know how to use dosbox.

http://www.gog.com/gamecard/duke_nukem_ ... ic_edition
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Post Post #109  (isolation #37)  » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:07 pm

In post 107, zoraster wrote:Did anyone ever play Cover Action, an old Microprose Sid Meier game?

I did not play that game. I did play floor 13, which is a fucking awesome game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwgBsmoiX0w
(someone didn't set their sound card right... always choose sound blaster.)
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Post Post #114  (isolation #38)  » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:03 am

Ultima IV is also free on gog. Was not a huge fan of ultima so I don't know if its a good game or not...
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Post Post #115  (isolation #39)  » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:21 pm

also, I found this great program that allows you to run the original X-com in mac/Linux/Windows without dosbox.
http://openxcom.org/
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Post Post #118  (isolation #40)  » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:42 am

In post 117, Umbrage wrote:randomly started playing super mario world again today and suddenly I'm great at it WTF HAPPENED?

I suck at platform games. I love the idea of them, but I simply suck. I wish I could get into classic Nintendo games and stuff like that but I never could get my head around them. I fall more towards strategy/shooter/simulation games.
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Post Post #120  (isolation #41)  » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:21 pm

any suggestions?
Image
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Post Post #122  (isolation #42)  » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:59 am

well, yes. The joke was for you to help out on the next move... But do you have any platformers that are for people who don't like platformers?
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Post Post #124  (isolation #43)  » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:52 pm

pretty amazing stuff being done with doom wads (still). This requires gzdoom/zdoom which mans you won't be abl to run it on your 486, but still:
Image
http://onemandoom.blogspot.com/2012/12/ ... ntwad.html
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Post Post #135  (isolation #44)  » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:15 pm

OMG DUNGEON KEEPER!
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Post Post #141  (isolation #45)  » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:16 am

DKC2 on snes had really awesome graphics. that may have been one of the first times that a console looked better than some computer games of the time.
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Post Post #145  (isolation #46)  » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:26 am

Heard of the game. Never played.
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Post Post #146  (isolation #47)  » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:35 am

Just had a great idea. Would anyone be interested in a colonization (maybe free col if you are idealistic and hate abandonware), or a civ 1 succession game?
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Post Post #149  (isolation #48)  » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:45 pm

nope. What OS are you using? What game are you trying to play?
If windows vista, 7, or (presumably) 8 DOSBOX must NOT be in a "program files" directory.

But you have to specify the correct drive where your games are. For example on my old windows 2000 machine (that had the OS on the C:\ drive that was only 18GB so I installed almost nothing there) I had DOSBOX installed on my F:\ drive and my games on my E:\ drive (don't ask). So to play a game I called up dosbox and:

mount C E:\DOSGAMES\Blood

instead of c c:\...



On another note, I found a really cool trick to help improve performance. In your dosbox config file (can be found from your start menu, or ~/.dosbox in Linux) change the default setting to the following:

output= ddraw (or opengl on Linux and mac. This will basically let you use directx to render the game. Or open GL...)
machine= svga_3 (if not already. This basically sets the emulated graphics card to be a good one...)
memsize= 24 or 32 (24 for will under all games. Use 32 for newer games that want to hog memory. Older games might not like 32 MB of memory)


a great video with the above tricks and more: http://www.pixelships.com/adg/epf003.html
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Post Post #151  (isolation #49)  » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:09 am

Sim earth is sort of a weird one isn't it?
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Post Post #158  (isolation #50)  » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:57 pm

Unfortunately the version I have doesn't work in windows 7. And it isn't a dos version. I might boot up the old computer and re-visit sim earth.
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