Mini 368: Town Of Suspicion - Game over!

[Ameliaslay]

He seems to think I'm scum now because I'm 'cringing' although how he thinks he's an expert on my scum play all of a sudden, even though we've never played together with me as scum, I don't know

What makes me curious is how you managed to mis-read

When the m4y cringes, plz lynch before his buddies get a chance to bus him

When he was clearly talking in a futuristic tense...

Besides general unhelpfulness... I'm not really seeing any reasons why to lynch either CES or Rosso... I think I'm going to look back at the beginning of the game and work my way forward to look at people in more depth...

In case you haven't noticed: Although CES approved of the M4yhem lynch, he didn't actually vote for him. How is that any different from saying "I would hammer X"? They were both sending the same basic message, which in essence is "let the bandwagon roll while I sit on the sideline". The difference being that Rosso has since retracted from his hammer-only mentality and placed his vote.

vs.

Rosso has set himself to hammer Thok, while CES has only said he approves of a certain lynch. If that approval goes so far as for CES to place a vote, it will not automatically lynch a person; hammering does. The two are in no way equivalent. Timing is everything when it comes to votes

I have to agree with PJ here, however I think Rosso's willingness to hammer Thok is more in jest than anything.

[M4yhem]

Mith- That part of Rosso’s post

is

quite unclear. So far we have three different interpretations of it. I think Rosso is casting suspicion on me, cause otherwise it makes even less sense. But though I don’t like that bit of his post, the rest of it has the tone of an innocent Rosso, IMO, so I’m letting him off for now.

I agree with Thok. PJ went for Rosso right after I said I was suspicious of him. Worth looking at.

PJ- We might get more info from a Rosso lynch, but will we catch scum? This to me is the more important question.

Alko- Wow, you did it again. Good job.

Here you seem to know what I mean:

As for who he said was scum, he said me for that 'premptative defense against nothing.'

Two things bother me about this, Al:
1. Why are you sounding so defensive when only Tyfo has voted you? Guilty conscience?
2. How do you know PJ is a townie?

Vote:Al_Kohaulec

1.) I'm explaining my actions. They will be questioned, as they are being now by you. I had no idea how many votes I had until you told me just now. That's not what was important to me. Just like I said in my post, in that quote, if I don't agree with something, I'm not going to sit by and watch it happen, I'm going to do something about it. In the game of mafia, if we see a player we believe to be town, if we sit idly by while he's being attacked, we'll slowly lose the game.
2.) I don't

know

that he's a townie, but I don't see how any of the arguments I've seen against him hold any relevance towards him being scum.

Here you misrepresent my case:

M4yhem, I was merely curious as to why you put me into the scum category for defending and trying to stop a potential lynch on somebody I found to be town, and you also found him to be town.

I’m suspicious because you defended

yourself

pre-emptively, not cause you defended PJ. Get it?

Crash has got my back. And I like his case against PJ. Not quite ddone with Alko yet though.

Fos:PJelly

for the reasons stated by Crash.

Pj- I can’t speak for the rest, but I would lynch CES over Rosso for two reasons, all things being equal:
1. He is unreadable to me. I mean, how do you analyze someone who posts mostly one-liners? I like to think I have a rough idea of what Rosso looks like as town.
2. He’s more unhelpful. All he seems to do is bandwagon. Rosso at least has some of his own ideas. Usually.

I think you are incorrect. A hammer and a bandwagon vote are worth the same thing. Either way, with enough votes you have a dead man. I would say scum are less likely to hammer. That and the first vote are the ‘visible’ ones, the ones people pay attention to. I would say that bandwagon votes are the more suspicious ones, personally.

Also, I’m told that patronising people who accuse you is a scumtell. What’s in those pills, poison?

Ameliaslay- Rosso’s meaning is unclear. And you said what I was going to say i.e. Rosso was joking.

[al_kohaulec]

I have to agree with PJ here, however I think Rosso's willingness to hammer Thok is more in jest than anything.

My first thought on Rosso's hammering comment was that it was in jest also. But he kept up that 'jest' for quite a while, and after some of the comments from other players, I'm not too sure what I think on that subject, and would like to hear more from Rosso concerning it.

[petroleumjelly]

Also, I’m told that patronising people who accuse you is a scumtell. What’s in those pills, poison?

I am too tired to respond to the rest of your post (I also like how I went from the person most likely to be town to get a FoS, but whatever), but this is the kind of comment that makes me roll my eyes and want to slap you.

Please read just about any game I have ever played in. From what I understand, many players find me:

1.) Pushy
2.) Patronizing
3.) Verbose

And depending on who are talking to, I am also:

4.) Persuasive
5.) Scary

And I am rather consistent with all of those stereotypes, whether I like it or not.

So far as the Rosso / CES issue is concerned, it should be pretty obvious that I really don't have a frickin' clue if either of them are scum at this point. I don't especially like Day Ones in the first place, because it feels like trying to squeeze juice from a rock.

I personally think that Rosso has a better chance at being scum over CES. I have explained my reasoning for I believe that Rosso has a better chance at being scum over CES. And it should be pretty clear that I think Rosso has a better chance at being scum over CES, since that is where my vote is placed. If you do not agree with me, then tough noogies, because I have not seen a single case to pursuade me to vote CES over Rosso. Rosso might "have more ideas", but that make me go "oh, well, he must be town".

Also, I don't understand your two lines of reasoning, which are:

1.) CES is unreadable.

Question: Should you then lynch all unreadable players? I do not approve of players who generally use one-liners, and I often get frustrated playing with them. But that does not mean they should be lynched on that basis.

2.) CES is more unhelpful, because all he does is bandwagon, and Rosso at least presents ideas.

Questions: Can a game progress without bandwagons? Does the presentation of "ideas" make somebody town (especially when the ideas presented are scummy)? Also, Rosso

also

pretty much only bandwagons, and he pretty much randomly calls people scum without presenting a line of reasoning. And when he

did

try to present a line of reasoning, it was found out that his line of reasoning was absolutely nonsense.

I apparently seem to be within a very small minority in my opinion, and I simply not seeing how so many people are in disagreement with me right now. I will not reiterate how I differentiate between bandwagon votes and hammer votes, because my post explains what I think of them just fine, and if you disagree, you disagree.

How about somebody present a case for why CES is a better lynch than Rosso, because I am just frankly not seeing it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You totally forgot to mention incredibly cuddly and totally adorable in every imaginable way.

*Winks*

[M4yhem]

Pooky- Not that I'm criticizing you, cause you're perfect in every way, but would it be possible for you to share a little more of your divine self with us? Answering those questions I lovingly prepared for you would be a good start.

PJ- I change my mind if new evidence presents itself. If I stubbornly stuck to my intial impressions, it would be that much easier for scum to manipulate me; all they'd have to do is agree with me. Plus, I usually start by being wrong, and then work towards the right answer. Your attempt to belittle me is noted.

The 'patronising' comment was a joke, based on what CES said earlier to me. I thought since people were saying you and CES were scum together, you'd like the irony. Seriously, I need to use a different font for jokes or something.

1) This being day one, and me not having a frickin clue who the scum are either, I would rather get rid of the guy I can't read now, rather than potentially have to deal with him in the endgame. It's a self protecting strategy. Obviously, this is just day one logic and on the whole, I'd rather lynch scum.

2) The game can progress without bandwagons, yes. If everyone gives thier ideas and then whoever has the majority of foses and such is lynched, I don't consider that a bandwagon. And in general, I'd say that anyone presenting some sort of idea gets townie points, since it takes an effort that scum don't need to go to. That doesn't mean they are cleared, it's just a point in their favour.

And when did this become the CES/Rosso show? There's plenty of other suspects.

Like Al_Kohaulec, who is now outright ignoring my accusation, even though I clarified like he asked. What's that about, Alky?

[Rosso Carne]

And when did this become the CES/Rosso show? There's plenty of other suspects.

like you and pj.

Pj's last few posts have really come into cringing pj mode, so thanks CTD.

Please read just about any game I have ever played in. From what I understand, many players find me:

1.) Pushy
2.) Patronizing
3.) Verbose

And depending on who are talking to, I am also:

4.) Persuasive
5.) Scary

nah.

[M4yhem]

Can we lynch Al_Kohaulec now?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Not in your lifetime.

[Relyte]

Sup everyone!

I'm replacing LML. Give me some time to readthrough the posts, eheh, 12 pages.

[Relyte]

Okay, I've read/skimmed through the nine (Not twelve. X.x;) pages.

I lost track of votes a while ago.

Mod: Can we have a votecount?

I want to point out MM, and Mayhem, have been playing defensively enarly the whole game, and MM is avoiding posting now that he's out of the spotlight.

Sorry for not posting recently, I'll be posting here soon.

Lawl, that was his last post, not to mention it was nearly 7 days ago, when you had a deadline... and self-voting for an early in the game vote. Lawl.

The only time I ever self-vote is if, A. I'm scum and I know the Pro-Town have caught me. (Last night in a game of Dethy, we found out who the paranoid cop was, and we had an idea of who the sane cop was, and I accidentally said the dead guy was innocent, when the previous day, I said a different guy was innocent. I immediately self-voted.) B. The game looks hopeless for me and/or I've claimed being scum.

This guy looks scummeh, to me.


Then there's M4yhem, he's been playing so defensively it's sick. Once you all read Pooky's little quiz, you seemed to drop suspicion of him. He still seems scummy to me...

...but before that happened, this did and it reeks of scum tactic.

fuck you m4yhem

Mod

I'm currently voting for Rosso and not for Al_Kohaulec. *Chokes on plastic* mmm, life threatening.

I've editted out his opinions on Mith and co, just for your sake. If you feel I'm twisting his words, I will post them too.

@Rosso- Hey! I didn't mean it personally; there's no need for that kind of talk. :(

unvote, Vote:Cogito Ergo Sum

DIE SCUM, DIE!!!

Right there. This reminds me of a scum tactic, I accidentally did in a Newbie Game of mine.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtop ... &&start=25

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Rosso, also seems suspicious, but honestly, I find MM and M4yhem, more so.

I would actually vote for M4yhem, but I don't know if he's close to majority or not. So for now, I'm giving him the FoS

FoS: M4yhem

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm, I liked that post. I never really thought LML to be scum anyways, but that post gives off a good vibe. Fair point about m4yhem, I may have backed off of him too soon.

Mod

, is the deadline still suspended? We should be able to generate more discussion with these two replacements.

Rosso, please explain what you mean by "cringing".

Your attempt to belittle me is noted.

Could you elaborate why you said this? I thought we had just gone over the fact that I can be patronizing. Or is this another joke? I pretty much do not have a sarcasm-o-meter.

[Rosso Carne]

cringing- recoiling, acting overly defensive and twitchy, taking any attack incredibly harshly for no good reason (often indicitive that the cringer has something to hide)

[Rosso Carne]

and please oh please let the deadline be extended...

pledge

[M4yhem]

CES- And why 's that? I thought you liked bandwagonning. Protecting your buddy, eh?

Relyte- Welcome. Firstly, what do you mean by playing defensively? If you mean I've tried to answer people's accusations of me then yes, I have. It never helps me for the town to be after me, no matter what my alignment; and when I'm town, it doesn't help the town either. If you mean I haven't been chasing after suspects, then that's blatently false and you need to re-read.

Next- Just because you unvoted once when you were scum, doesn't mean that everyone who unvotes is scum. :badlogic:
I explained my unvote. What did you make of that explanation?

You can vote for me if you want, as far as I remember I'm nowhere near majority. I do think your reasons for voting me are horribly poor though so I'd suggest you don't.

PJ- 'Fair point about M4yhem?' Honestly, what point?

And Jelly man, I said it for the reason that I thought you were trying to belittle me; what a surprise.
1)Just because you said you can be patronizing doesn't mean I have to like it.
2)I'd forgotten that you said it anyway.

[mith]

I am so tired.

Vote: Rosso Carne

. I'm not as happy with this vote as I was with my interpretation of what he said, but his post still doesn't feel right to me.

MM has fallen behind a bit, not because he's gotten less scummy, but because others have gotten more scummy. Hard to keep up when you lurk. Prod/replace please, Mod.

M4yhem... I'm still not happy with. I'll concede that it could just be his playstyle I have a problem with, and given the amount he's posting he'll eventually give us something to catch if he's scum.

CES and Pooky, I'm just disappointed with. You guys are better than this.

That's it for now. Need to reread.

[Thok]

Not really in the mood for a full post now, (and I won't be posting again before Thursday at the earliest), but I've realized that PJ's done a lot of subtle OMGUSing-not so much vote retaliation, but he has been relatively consistent in replying to any comment of the form "PJ has done X" by going "X is a stupid thing to mention. Perhaps bringing up X means you are scum."

unvote, vote PJ

[M4yhem]

I'm still waiting for Al_Kohaulec to respond.

But I think PJ is dodgy too, and I'm bored, with a hankering for bandwaggoning action.

unvote, Vote PJ

for oppurtunistic hopping on Rosso earlier.

Most Marvelous Mod

, may we have a votecount please?

[petroleumjelly]

M4yhem, that last post doesn't even make sense.

unvote, Vote PJ for oppurtunistic hopping on Rosso earlier.

I have voted for Rosso Carne twice in this game. My first vote was placing a second vote on him early in the game, when the only other vote (administered by Ameliaslay) was a random vote. That cannot be construed as 'opportunistic hopping'.

My second vote for Rosso Carne was Post 181, which I detailed in reasons nobody else had pointed out before that time. Further, by reading my posts, it becomes rather obvious that I have been suspicious of Rosso for much of the game: I was certainly not hopping on a passing opportunity, as you are seemingly trying to present. In fact, that vote was in fact the

only

vote on Rosso, so it was most certainly

not

"opportunistic hopping", but rather just the opposite: it was striking out in a direction the town was not currently leaning, and so far as I can tell, the town is in general

still

leaning against voting for Rosso (which I am still failing to understand).

If anything, your vote on me just now is what I would consider opportunistic hopping: you present no substantive reasoning, your vote comes directly after I have already received two votes (one from CrashTextDummie, whose reasoning I have responded to, and another from Thok, whose reasoning I suppose I will address after this), during a time period where I am also apparently catching some flak for my opinion on the CES/Rosso debate.

Not really in the mood for a full post now, (and I won't be posting again before Thursday at the earliest), but I've realized that PJ's done a lot of subtle OMGUSing-not so much vote retaliation, but he has been relatively consistent in replying to any comment of the form "PJ has done X" by going "X is a stupid thing to mention. Perhaps bringing up X means you are scum."

I won't bother denying that I am naturally OMGUSy. Once you can convince me that being OMGUSy is indicative of scum, I might be able to accept your reasoning for your vote. The fact is, I (like all players) would rather not have votes on me if at all possible, so if somebody is going to accuse me of doing something scummy when I believe I have done nothing wrong, you can be certain my natural reaction will be along the lines of "No, that was

not

scummy, and the fact that you are trying to put suspicion on me makes me suspicious of you."

It's a mindset I try not to let shine through in my play, but so long as OMGUSery is

substantiated

with reasoning, I have found it is not indicative of whether or not somebody is scum. I don't think

all

votes on me are done because of ulterior motives (that would be a silly proposition to make), so I do not find all votes on me as suspicious.

But

those votes or 'suspicions' which I cannot agree with or understand the reasoning behind I

will

attack, just as any player should do in the first place.

[M4yhem]

Pj, pj, Pj, you seem to forget that at the time of post 181

I myself

was leaning rather heavily in the direction of Rosso. To forget that is a black mark against you. I agree that your reasons for suspecting him were different from mine, but I felt at the time that you might be trying to lead me onto Rosso.

And just because you responded to CTD's reasoning doesn't make it invalid. I felt you response was somewhat lacking.

[petroleumjelly]

What?

At the time of Post 181, you had unvoted Rosso because he said "fuck you". Needless to say, if you were that willing to unvote, your vote did not carry very much weight to begin with. It's not as if people were going to rally behind your unvote and consider that as an "opportunity" to vote for Rosso. I don't believe you have been "heavily" leaning towards voting any one person this entire game, to be frank. Even

if

you had actually been

voting

for Rosso when I placed my vote, that would still have only made my vote a second vote on reasoning which was substantiated, and so still cannot even be classified as "opportunistic hopping". The fact that your attention was, in fact, elsewhere dilutes your 'point' to practically nothing.

Also, if you feel my response to CTD was 'lacking', explain why.

[Rosso Carne]

scum, you may stop arguing. we get the point that one of you has to wagon the other. it's ok.

[M4yhem]

Rosso- I think you posted in the wrong game, man.

PJ- I suppose you have a point.

unvote, Vote:Al_Kohaulec

[lordy]

The mod comes back in again with a evil grin, with a new deadline in tow. He smiles at you all sadistically.

Rosso Carne: 3 (AmeliaSlay, PJ, mith)
Petroleum Jelly: 3(Rosso, crashtextdummie, Thok)

Thok: 2:(Cognito Ergo Sum, Al_kohaulec)
CES: 2(Pooky, Machiavellian-Mafia )

Mith: 1 (Relyte)
Al_kohaulec: 1(M4yhem)



12 in town, 7 to lynch.

Deadline: 21 Oct: 12:00 PM GMT +0

[mith]

Lowell? I think you mean Relyte.

pj hasn't set off my scum-o-meter at all yet. If I had to pick one player (other than myself) as most likely to be innocent, it would be him. I'm quite surprised he has three votes.

(I'll try to post something more substantial tomorrow/this weekend, assuming my home internet is working. Down ATM.)