Micro 102: Mainstream Mini-Mafia [END, CULT WIN]

[Voidedmafia]

Having (IIRC) modded his first game, I can understand that, Mollie.

Vote: Siv

[Voidedmafia]

FT, if that's what happens it's the town's own damn fault for letting it happen. If they can't manage their time well enough then shouldn't be wondering why they can't lynch scum.

[Voidedmafia]

*cough PMollie, not FT <_<*

Mollie, P-Rat could be bussing scumSiv for some amount of towncred?

[Voidedmafia]

On a page one RVS wagon? Unlikely.

agreed

True, however, I still think you should be aware of the potential for rat to do that if he's scum with Siv.

[Voidedmafia]

Mollie, P-Rat could be bussing scumSiv for some amount of towncred?

That seems a little bit far fetched. We don't even know sivs alignment yet, to be guessing that rat's bussing him just seems wierd at this point in the game..

Mollie was saying that there was no scum motivation there. I was simply pointing out that there is, even if it's not the best kind of motivation at that point in time.

VOTE: Majiffy

I guess I can get the irritation behind the vote, but I guess I don't really like it.

Ah but the question had nothing to do with opinions.

...actually a fair point, given what this argument is all referring to.

This argument feels a lot like orcinus is unnecessarily making a mountain out of a molehill. Was Majiffy's response to the original question annoying? Yes. Should he actually try to come up with a well-thought-out response outlining why he wants to just hang Siv anyways (even if it's already been stated)? Probably. Is the ruckus orcinus causing because of this really worth it? IMO not really.

Vote: Orcinus

[Voidedmafia]

This argument feels a lot like orcinus is unnecessarily making a mountain out of a molehill. Was Majiffy's response to the original question annoying? Yes. Should he actually try to come up with a well-thought-out response outlining why he wants to just hang Siv anyways (even if it's already been stated)? Probably. Is the ruckus orcinus causing because of this really worth it? IMO not really.

Vote: Orcinus

What exactly are you voting me for again? I mean, since you've said that Majiffy was being annoying with his refusal to answer question, you think that my persistance in following up is...scummy somehow?

Boooldeeed.

What exactly are you voting me for again? I mean, since you've said that Majiffy was being annoying with his refusal to answer question, you think that my persistance in following up is...scummy somehow?

That's terrible.

Don't mind him, he's just my scumbuddy trying to bail me out of the horrible suspicion you've cast on me.

DON'T RAT ON ME, MAN! That's rude!

PPE: Play like an annoying bastard and refuse to answer questions and then receive a chainsaw defense from voidedmafia.

Do I hear buzzing? Must be my ears.

I explained why I disliked your vote on Majiffy. You seem to understand it, so...

How are we supposed to flip Siv without a lynch? Oh right, you guys have a nightkill. Forgot about that.

Which presumes Majiffy is scum, which I don't have much of a reason to believe right now.

...And by the end of page 3 this argument has gotten way to fucktarded for me to want to deal with anymore -_-

Believe it or not, "I want to flip Siv" is an opinion in implying that Siv is a good lynch for the day (post 46

Not always it isn't...

Please tell me you two will shut up about this soon? I'm all for information but this is getting ridiculous.

[Voidedmafia]

Where's the scum motivation, voided?

If you're scum with Majiffy, this is a good way to deflect attention off both of you via bussing and by being generally loud and annoying so that other players want to tone you out. Of course, the scumminess of one of you depends on the other flipping scum, but still.

Even if one of you is scum and the other is town, it still works toward potentially turning eyes away.

Or, thirdly, you're trying to push a mislynch on flimsy reasoning and it's currently failing hard.

[Voidedmafia]

This does not mean players should not be looking for associative tells. There is something called CONDITIONAL reasoning. I myself will not lynch a player unless I can pin down who I think his partners are. It actually works quite effectively, especially for developing town-reads and using process of elimination.
So you won't lynch obvscum immediately and instead try to dick around for associative tells that you can do during the night?

I'm calling it now, Pappums-Majiffy.

I can agree to a Savage lycnh, but I like my orcinus spot.

1. I never said I build cases SOLELY because of interactions. I said I don't lynch someone UNLESS there are also associations. It is a necessary condition for lynching someone, not a sufficient one. That said, I would like to know why you are changing your story:

...No it shouldn't (not all the time, at least). If you go by that logic, even obvscum has to be let go if no one has any obvious associative tells with him/her at the time.

So you first said I was refusing to commit to a position. I asked you to name them. You then said I have not committed to any reads. I've asked you where I've been asked. And the questions you have posted thus far of me being asked, I have answered to. You cannot change "not having reads" to "refusing to give reads", these are not logically congruent.

To be fair, though, it's still a good idea to articulate your reads out loud for everyone else.

@Majiffy

You are dancing around the issue. You said no one asked you. I showed that you were asked. Your responses gave no answers so they were refusals. I'm not getting into a semantic argument with you. You were WRONG about the fact that no one asked you. You are not dodging that bullet. If you have any reads, now is the time to articulate them.

He has a point here, though.

[Voidedmafia]

now that was nothing but fluff after your reads post <_<

Voidedmafia - Dunno, mostly because I haven't really bothered reading you much.

Why would you not read the guy who defended you the most at the time?

[Voidedmafia]

Because defending me is alignment null. You could be scum buddying up to me or you could be town with a town read on me. Or even town who just thinks the case is stupid. I need to either interact with you directly or see you in more situations.

So...you look at the case I bring up in your defense?

I mean, that seems pretty darn simple if you ask me.

[Voidedmafia]

...on what?

[Voidedmafia]

Because you're probably scum.

That doesn't answer his question -_-

[Voidedmafia]

This wagon became incredibly less appealing once Melmond unvoted me.

Why would the fact that you're now not at L-2 make it "less appealing"?

In the future, you could have just said that to begin with.

Hypocrite <_<

@voided: you're voting orc, but ft is saying mostly the same stuff and you're defending him. What makes orc more likely to be scum than ft?

IIRC I've never defended Fourtrouble?

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, why is your vote still on Orci?

I think he's scum, and I haven't quite tried to understand why people think you're scummy?

[Voidedmafia]

This argument feels a lot like orcinus is unnecessarily making a mountain out of a molehill. Was Majiffy's response to the original question annoying? Yes. Should he actually try to come up with a well-thought-out response outlining why he wants to just hang Siv anyways (even if it's already been stated)? Probably. Is the ruckus orcinus causing because of this really worth it? IMO not really.

If you're scum with Majiffy, this is a good way to deflect attention off both of you via bussing and by being generally loud and annoying so that other players want to tone you out. Of course, the scumminess of one of you depends on the other flipping scum, but still.

Even if one of you is scum and the other is town, it still works toward potentially turning eyes away.

Or, thirdly, you're trying to push a mislynch on flimsy reasoning and it's currently failing hard.

[Voidedmafia]

In regards to 57, you don't see Orc's actions as potentially coming from a newbtown kid who's only 16?

Same with 87, really.

And? People older than him have raised larger ruckuses. Why should he be exempt just because he's sitll a teen?

Besides, even though asking if that was serious (and the elaboration from you was needed), he was far louder and far more insistent on the topic than he should've been.l

Same with 87, really.

[Voidedmafia]

In regards to 57, you don't see Orc's actions as potentially coming from a newbtown kid who's only 16?

Same with 87, really.

And? People older than him have raised larger ruckuses. Why should he be exempt just because he's sitll a teen?

Besides, even though asking if that was serious (and the elaboration from you was needed), he was far louder and far more insistent on the topic than he should've been.l

Same with 87, really.

yabbut that doesn't make him scummy

Unless you're going to suggest he was tunneling fairly hard on Majiffy, what was the entire point of most of page 2 and page 3?

[Voidedmafia]

For you or for him, or both of you?

[Voidedmafia]

Not what I'm asking. i'm asking who you think was trying to win there.

[Voidedmafia]

Does Voided's vote strike anyone as opportunistic?

A vote on you that's been there since about page 3 (and IIRC has been the only vote I've casted this entire game)?

PLEASE do tell how this post makes any sense.

VOTE: Melmond

What was this for? You haven't said anything about me all game.

Or at least nothing worth voting for, IIRC.

Well wishes, P-Rat.

[Voidedmafia]

You wound her so <_<.

Yo, Rachie. Best be getting quick reads on Majiffy, FT, and probly orc or myself.

[Voidedmafia]

I can view him in iso. Must be you.

[Voidedmafia]

is it that you think both melmond and voided both look scummy and you are wanting to get them sorted?

Voded and Majiffy will definitely take some time to digest, both are very good players and not the easiest to read. ATM though I am placing them in the likely town pile.

*cough*

[Voidedmafia]

And so we grind to a halt...

[Voidedmafia]

Did someone have an FT case laid out? I feel like I asked for one before.

[Voidedmafia]

RM has had this entire game

Rach replaced in, hello?

Though, certain alternate things from 270 are more welcome.

[Voidedmafia]

Okay that makes sense

Still waiting on that FT case, because I still haven't seen one. :l

[Voidedmafia]

Siv is null-town. I agree with his 89 and the point against Majiffy in 187, but his lack of presence keeps this read null.

Liked Pappums. Rach is decent enough. Needs ta do more, though.

PM, I suppose, is decent enough. I liked posts like 153 due to similar thoughts to me, but I think the mass of one-liners makes me want to just skim his ISO. Other than his FT vote the only notable thing I can really see is his discourse with me about why I'm voting orcinus, and that's not really alignment-telling.

I'd like to see the FT case before I ISO him, though.

[Voidedmafia]

^ full of hedge. like peptobismol hedge.

Because everyone that can be reasonably talked about at this point has shit-all for post numbers? Kinda hard to get reads on someone like Siv who only has FOUR posts this entire damn game.

(plus, as I said, I'm waiting on the FT case)

[Voidedmafia]

Voided would be my primary scum read that I would push for today, Siv as second.

Is this being slightly OMGUS-y or did you post reasons?

[Voidedmafia]

Yeah I did

Kindly show please?

[Voidedmafia]

My name only shows up in your ISO here, here, here, and here. Only thing that looks like reasons is the last one (and mebbe the one about chainsaws).

Bullet-point it, will ya?

[Voidedmafia]

So that gives you total leave to ignore everything else, amirite?

[Voidedmafia]

Dat post speaks the truth.

Also,

Vote: Siv

[Voidedmafia]

You calling me scum because you don't like my Orci case?

[Voidedmafia]

Yes, I feel like your case is more like stating a fact of what orc is doing and calling it scummy than actually noticing something scummy that he's doing.

And that's a bad thing?

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, it is. It feels contrived.

Perhaps I didn't make myself entirely clear at the time, but I was trying to say that the entire sequence of Orci's anger at Majiffy's response and him blowing the argument out of porportion (and drawing it out over a page or so) was scummy because I don't see why town would get that bent out of shape over an aggravating but overall alignment null answer that Majiffy gave. And of course, I gave three possibilities for why Orci did that and I still really stand by the 3rd one (that Orci is scum who thought he had a good way to garner suspicion on Majiffy that didn't go as planned at all).

Though, I suppose I could be reading it wrong, but that doesn't really answer why restating events and saying why I think these particular events are scummy.

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, less Futurama more Mafia.

Whoever the fuck said they had an FT case needs to either post it or start working on it. If the waiting and the quantity of demands for it isn't enough, what will be?

FT, for however long you'll be here this time, why those scumreads?

[Voidedmafia]

He hasn't actually given any legit scum reads. Just a few weak fosses.

Even so, he can explain them.

[Voidedmafia]

You sort of answer your own question there.

And just out of curiosity if I refuse to answer your questions that makes me town like Majiffy right

oh ok right

Majiffy answered your questions, though it's true he didn't do it in a way that was actually readable at first glance.

And no I didn't.

[Voidedmafia]

...spouting gibbering nonsense does not make your point any more valid than it was.

[Voidedmafia]

not gibberish it's an answer

just not readable at first glance

No, THAT was gibberish.

Majiffy's posts, while i will not be so brazen as to say they all hold kernels of truth in them, did answer your questions (and/or set the parameters to do so, on certsin occaisions).

[Voidedmafia]

Has anyone actually posted a case on FT yet?

No. Either because they don't have them or I suppose those who did are gone.

VOTE: four trouble

Because?

[Voidedmafia]

btw, happy scumday, rachie!

[Voidedmafia]

*sadface*

I wanna win this time without being dead, please.

[Voidedmafia]

@Game - why aren't more people voting Human Destroyer, he's claiming scum on Page 17, which is usually a good thing to lynch someone over.

...I don't see it? All I see is 3 people who are putting out far too many posts that may not actually have any in-game relevance for me to reasonably shift through with the time I have (Majiffy, Mollie, and Destroyer). It's left me seriously disconnected, and the rambling by HD on page 17 isn't helping.

@Human - you haven't even asked for my logic, even though I claimed to have some. Your attempt to downplay me while not addressing me and also just vague batting at me as scummy continues to prove that you're scummy.

Now this is reasoning I can relate to (possibly not related to the fact that I try to do this all the time ) and can actually see.

Vote: HD

[Voidedmafia]

you did not ask me a question thor, you made a suggestion.

Because suggestions totally aren't supposed to be answered all the time.

I'm thinking Thor/Voided for scumteam

That'd be a match made in heaven, wouldn't it? <_<

chk: One about me next, maybe?

but anyone looking at a vote count and then looking at how you answered me on Page 17 should spot the scum claim.

I think I might.

[Voidedmafia]

Because everyone that can be reasonably talked about at this point has shit-all for post numbers? Kinda hard to get reads on someone like Siv who only has FOUR posts this entire damn game.

Last time I gave a read on Siv. Not the distinct lack of a scumread.

Do you know the word "Pressure"?

P-EDIT: Sure about that?

P-EDIT 2: I believe Thor asked you something (even if it wasn't a question). Not responding=dodging

[Voidedmafia]

7. JacobSavage (1) - pirate mollie

*cough*

[Voidedmafia]

owait, nvm, I'm derp.

[Voidedmafia]

No asking for someone's reads is asking for their thoughts on the subject.

That's not scumhunting, that's asking for opinions.

There's a difference.

And then you follow up with questions relating to how they have said reads, etc.?

It's scumhunting, HD.

...because I'm totally going to be able to convince you to vote yourself.

Yknow, I thought that was supposed to be the time why you lay (or re-lay) out the case against your top read for everyone else?

If people don't support the lynch of my top scumread, it makes sense to recruit them to lynch my second/third scumreads, does it not?

Did you even have a case on Thor/whoever he replaced?

[Voidedmafia]

Yes

Siv had (almost) no content and bandwagoned like nuts

Ah, okay.

And considering Jacob never followed up, that statement is invalid.

True enough. But do you see what I mean?

[Voidedmafia]

I just ISOed both Melmond and HD and I do not see where he self voted Thor.

Siv, not Melmond...

[Voidedmafia]

HD, those aren't very bandwagony. The first one is a decent reaction to the events, the second is the same shift everyone else made. I guess an argument could be made that the second is "bandwagony" if you want to stretch it, but it certainly isn't scum or town aligned; I can see the play being made from either alignment.

Fairly sure the 2nd one is bandwagoning.

Psst, Mollie, they aren't scumtells if the tells aren't true.

[Voidedmafia]

and no I have not noticed where you have given adequate answers to my questions/assertions and that is why I keep pestering you about them

...Yes he has? I don't need to be sheeping him to see that he's answered your questions.

which is what you did and then you adding put downs on top of that makes you look even scummier.

That's null for him.

[Voidedmafia]

what is?

[Voidedmafia]

Voided can I see a few recently completed scum games?

Of mine?

They're in my wiki.

[Voidedmafia]

But really, if you wanna look for scumgames the only recent one I have is the DDU one. The only other one that's closest is Open 409: Less Pressure, which is buried behind a string of, like, 10 towngames.

P-EDIT: Lolumad.

[Voidedmafia]

I...Couldn't tell you. Any game that I have been in with him is either ongoing or it's been awhile (or I just don't recall).

Plus, I'm not really that beholden to meta, not as a be-all, end-all thing to scumhunt.

[Voidedmafia]

What about RachMarie?

I feel like she's decent enough, though I've barely played with her since said Open 409. I do happen to remember her more than Siv, though, so.

[Voidedmafia]

Honestly much prefer a Mollie wagon now than I do an HD wagon, Thor.

Vote: Mollie

[Voidedmafia]

Or everybody at least is willing to not lynch Thor today (not that I'm going to deny having a mild townread on him based on Mollie's bad pushing)

[Voidedmafia]

544 is to 542, btw.

[Voidedmafia]

*waits for meltdown*

You waiting around for meltdowns is like everyone who waits for those doomsday dates (Rapture, or more recently 12/21/12): You build it up to be something great, and then when the time comes it never happens.

there objective scumtells and relative ones. you are dropping a bunch of classic ones but town can do this too. what I am trying to discern is whether or not it is a relative town tell of yours. why is this bothering you?

I don't know. Thor's been kinda poking at this like, "meh, not really a case but she's pushing it on me so let's just get it over with".

Why is this bothering you?

No one is doing that. We're treating him like that thing you really should go to the doctor's for but you really don't want to just in case the doctor says you're going to die in 6 months.

I think Thor needs to sig this. XD

Voided is probably scum with Human moreso than Mollie if he is scum. If Mollie is scum then Voided is probably town.

Because I stopped sheeping you/hopped off the wagon?

I came to the realisation that Thor is very hard to read the last game I played with him.

That and if he is town he's a very effective scum hunter, same with Majiffy.

^ town

so is majiffy

...How?

Also, I'd like to lynch the fuck out of Voided.

Because?

I mean yeah you're sheeping his reads, but usually when you sheep someone, you vote for the same person they are

Do you not?

Kinda goes hand-in-hand, yeah.

Unless he screwed up the names and is actually sheeping me or something.

That's how cult usually is, which is why I'm baffled by what the hell he's talking about and where the hell he got it from.

Well, chk DOES mention there's a cult, but there's no explicit mention of there being mafia either.

He's probably wrong but I don't see what's wrong with him doing this kind of spec.

there was a huge stagnation in the game. like nothing was going on. I was perplexed as to why.

And that totally clears you of the responsibility of making and sharing reads, amirite?

That's probably a carry over from ani's rules

If not then this game needs to be restarted (and Thor is lying, I'm town)

yyyeeaaaaah that's a carryover.

Thought - scum is apparently cult in this game.

...Wait, huh?

Just so I'm not making up paranoid theories in my head, by this you mean "Cult is replacing scum as the main faction for town to defeat" or something along those lines? If not, am I missing something?

[Voidedmafia]

I don't understand the purpose of this post tbh.

So you're not that good at connections? Thankfully, I knew that already.

eta: hd I pretty much trust thor's integrity

.../sarcasm?

[Voidedmafia]

I feel like I just watched an explosion of silly happen.

That post of mine isn't silly. :<

Would anyone like to at least pretend they're town for a few pages? It would help me.

Sure, why not?

The game is called Mainstream Mafia

Do you actually expect people to be serious in every single post

Who is this to, just so I'm not mistaken?

Your defense of Thor and your interactions with the slot as a whole make me curious if Thor is actually scum and you're now defending him (instead of trying to bus him, as you had toyed around with re: Siv) because he's a stronger scum player.

I thought scum didn't buddy their scumpartners?

How did I "toy" with bussing Siv?

Granted, Thor is a player I think I tend to want to sheep (along with Ranbowdash/Llamafluff), but even so...

[Voidedmafia]

1) What the fuck?

If I'm scum and I'm partners with Thor (or we're cultbuddies), why would I try to buddy up to my partner?

Secondly, count how many people call that a scumclaim/slip from me <_<

2) Voting habits.

...Uh-huh.

3) ... Doesn't actually address what I said about how you've been interacting with him.

I don't think I meant that to be, really.

[Voidedmafia]

So you're agreeing that my reasons for wanting to lynch you are valid?

...Er, no. I'm saying that Thor is someone I would have a bigger tendency to sheep. Not necessarily buddy (That's more for Dashie), but then I'm usually a sucker for good (or at least well-presented) cases.

Now, granted, I did sheep thor onto HD and I have been defending him, but that's because A.) For HD I actually thought he had something good to work with, plsu good reasons, and B.) Mollie's attacks on him are kinda shitty, so...

[Voidedmafia]

Well that's adorable, but that post could come from town or scum. Give me real reasons to believe you're town.

I'm cute and cuddly, I'm fun to be around, I can be helpful, and despite my username I'm from the planet earth and I'm actually town?

HD: I think I'm staring to lean away from the former. I don't feel like your stuff on Siv that Thor's hounding you on was an attempt at driving a mislynch and such.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, fuck, it didn't paste the rest -_-

You've done it before in regards to RachMarie.

I did? I don't remember doing that in 409.

What is this? Trying to ATE my suspicion away from you? You should know by now that I don't have a heart.

Thatt wasn't really at you, though I admit I did wonder if you thought I had scumslipped based on the "what the fuck" reaction.

I'm asking him to refute my argument instead of just say "lol well that's what I do hurr hurr aren't I adorable?"

But I didn't say that until the end <_<

I mean, if I'm understanding correctly, your case is:
I sheeped thor, primarily onto HD (which i've conceded)
You more-or-less dislike my defense of Thor (I dont feel like the defense in and of itself is terrible, so I guess I'm assuming you dislike the way I'm doing it?)
Said defense of Thor makes you think Thor is scum and that me-scum is defending him (which I think is stupid because scum shouldn't buddy their partners; defend yes, but not buddy)
I'm doing said defense because Thor is a stonger player (than who? Me? the players in this game?) as scum (Even if it was true that he's a better scumplayer than I am, I honestly don't see why I'd try to defend him if that's the case unless I honestly thought the case brought against him was really stupid.)

[Voidedmafia]

2) Ok, but that's just a bucket of WIFOM. Give me a real refutation why you can't be you-scum defending him-scum.

If Thor is as good a player as you say he is, why would Voidedscum need to try and defend him when Thorscum could easily defend himself quite nicely? Doing so would simply be unnecessary work and probably would just make me look scummy by doing that. Regardless of the case being used against Thor, if he responds well enough my own defense of him would look off-putting and may well make people think, "Why is Voided trying to do this for Thor? Is he trying to earn townpoints from this?" or something like that.

I think voided looks super scummy and he is laying it on a bit thick.

Laying what on a bit thick?

chk, cmon. *sadface* You can do better.

...wait, so Majiffy responded to a "scum slip" with a "scum slip"?

:l

...What? What're you talking about?

How is that a vague opinion? Her voting pattern has been odd, and her vote changes often go unexplained.

So, how/why are they odd? Where has she not explained her vote changes?

Giving opinions on only one thing is a defining flaw of my character though.

Should probably change that, Human.

1. A scumtell.

And it's a scumtell because?

if I were scum I would be cosying up to you like what voided is doing

If you were reading you'd realize I'm not doing that <_<

I think it is awesome how you are ignoring voided's horrible wking of you

Point 1 towards you not understanding Thor at all. He LOVES it when people adore him.

I can't remember really having an opinion on siev but by all means I think you should continue to make shit up.

It's true enough that you really didn't, but "having no opinion" more or less does mean Siv's null to you, so he's not really wrong.

[Voidedmafia]

Scummily Copypasting what HD already said in hopes of us ignoring what you just did in lieu of you trying to give stuff, Jacob? Thankfully for you, I have bigger fish to fry.

He responded to Mollie's "I'm pretending to be town" with "I know you're town".

Explain how that's a scumslip here?

The Thor vote she did explain, but only a little. This is what I mean when her voting pattern is weird by the way; usually she'll switch votes out of nowhere, without explanation, then post like nothing happened.

Looking around the votes for any sort of reasoning post before or after the vote and seeing none, I agree with this.

Because random vote switching without explanation is scummy? Really, I don't know how to explain it.

I think that is what makes it scummy, more or less.

[Voidedmafia]

That's...kinda implicit in HD's point.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, I missed it a first. But then looking at it it doesn't make sense, really.

[Voidedmafia]

especially since he was trying not to lose his temper with the one rather VI who was an Innocent Child and refusing to help town in any way

I thought I did lose my temper at one point?

[Voidedmafia]

Because Voidedscum has a history of defending his scum buddies if they're at least decent players.

Based on...one game?

yeah, totally good work with dat meta.

then are you voting Voided? If not, why not?

Good point. And he still needs to respond to my post to this.

[Voidedmafia]

Am I supposed to be faulted that you've not a lot of recent scum games completed?

No, but you are faulted for making an assumption about my scumplay with only one game.

Nevermind that the other most recently finished scumgame of mine (A Double-Day Unlimited Open, the one before the currently ongoing one) didn't have me defend my scumpartner at all (first one was lurky, so that goes neither way, but Gunny and I bussed each other pretty damn hard D2).

Given a clear 1:1 ratio between "defending my partner" and "bussing/distancing from my partner", your meta argument is flawed.

[Voidedmafia]

1) Gunny wasn't playing strongly as scum.
2) I didn't say defending your partner universally, I said defending strong partners.

1.) He was playing as well as he could given his position and the game's position. I think he played as well as he could've.
2.) I don't think Gunny is bad as scum. And he can be pretty darn strong.

*shrug*

[Voidedmafia]

1) That's great, we don't give stickers for participating here.
2) Well he wasn't in that game.

1.) Just because you're in a bad position doesn't mean you can't be strong scum. Defending yourself well against attacks, providing (or doing your role well) towards helping your teammate(s) get towncred or survive just that little bit longer to win; both of these and other things contribute to being strong scum players. It's not just about being able to act town very well, and given the situation Gunny was in and what he and I had decided to do to win that game I think he played very well.
2.) Meh. Rach is good enough as scum, too, so I don't really see the point?

[Voidedmafia]

ok fine

Thor, what's Majiffy's scumplay like?

VOTE: Voided

Way to ignore my question, orcinus! Way to go!

... That is the point. You defend your buddies when they're strong scum. Or, to state it more accurately, you ignore or bus your buddies if they don't look like they're going to make it or in general aren't good as scum.

It's still only one game, though...

[Voidedmafia]

Already answered it in what you deem to be a satisfying manner, Voided.

...No you haven't.

[Voidedmafia]

Because you totally posted after my 634 on page 26, amirite?

[Voidedmafia]

W/e. Point is, until he posted that on post on 27 he never posted after you told me about his own post on my 630, so there's no way he could've "answered adequately"

[Voidedmafia]

I'm going to assume you mean the one about his post not making sense, right?

Yes. (which isn't really a question but is still something he needs to respond to.)

[Voidedmafia]

this literally made me laugh

And your response to any pressure on you (which is seemingly to act tough and pretend you're not listening so we'll ignore you) makes me think you're scummy.

[Voidedmafia]

Hey anyone want to lynch Voided and see what he flips?

Yknow what's almost worse than people voting without explaining?

People clamoring for lynches of people they don't have any substantial reasons to want lynched.

[Voidedmafia]

Maybe I'll remember this time. <_<

Orcinus's death changes nothing for me at the moment, though I'm honestly perplexed at the choice. I mean, at least I would've been somewhat willing to back such a wagon, so...

vote: Mollie

[Voidedmafia]

Stalled wagons on Day 1 mean something.

Considering wagons stalled on Mollie and HD, would you put some stock into the possibility of Mollie being scum?

Majiffy is scum.

Vote majiffy

Because?

I still can't get over how much heat *I* get for that flowchart

WHat flowchart, again?

[Voidedmafia]

Considering I was a proponent of lynching Mollie yesterday, no it doesn't.

[Voidedmafia]

Do you see its stall as likely scum motivated considering the existence of the Human wagon?

Considering that would make me scum given that I

started

the Mollie wagon, not on that front. However, I do dislike FT's reason for jumping onto it (if he was going to sheep you, he'd sheep you onto HD, not Mollie), so I do think there may be some slight motivation for continuing it by parties other than myself.

(If I had been more mindful of the deadline, I would've voted onto HD to avoid a NL, but sadly that didn't happen.)

No, the inverse is not true

So why does HDscum=Mollietown, but Molliescum=/=HDtown? Does this go back to the circumstances around the wagons that you mentioned?

[Voidedmafia]

You could have voted and pushed Mollie.

Fair point, this.

[Voidedmafia]

also how am I sidelining a vote when I am trying to engage with hd in dialogue?

for you to call this "sidelining a vote" seems hasty.

By voting you, not explaining the vote, not asking anyone else to vote you, and then mumbling off into some vague side discussion that has nothing to do with you?

Wow, pardon me as I step off the tracks, I don't want to be plowed down by this aggressive speed wagon of pressure.

Yknow how I keep saying you can't read, Mollie? Do you like proving me right?

[Voidedmafia]

807 actually feels kinda townish to me. The nonchalance of the claim just doesn't ring to me as scummy.

[Voidedmafia]

Like Molllie? Her pushes yesterday and today do not feel genuine at all.

[Voidedmafia]

No, HD, I'm not going to sheep you onto Rach.

you are simply not going to even consider me town until I have 4 pages of filled with wots, are you

First off, I have no idea what "wots" means.

Secondly, it's not my fault your responses to Thor are scummy <_<.

I think you both are letting recent game baggage colour your perspective on my alignment in this game so I am asking you both to take a step back and do some reevaluation. just try it. I am leaning town on you both but voided I might need more interaction.

You're really hitting some of the things that I have peeves about and think are scummy--like voting without explanations--and as I've stated I don't like your responses to Thor at all.

I give in, I'm sheeping Voided. Everyone else should too.

Wait, what?

hd, plz do not take my post and insert your responses in them again. plz separate your responses out so that when people go back and reread your posts or mine there is a distinction that is very apparent to the reader.

THIS SO VERY FUCKING MUCH!

Please please PLEASE do this next time, HD.

I wouldn't say orc was playing strongly this game. He was kind of lurky, and if anything seemed like a weird kill.

Scum like weird kills because it throws town for a loop.

To be honest, it feels like a kill Thor would make/advocate. (I'd think he'd go for me/Majiffy over orci, to be honest, but eh, who knows what's going on in that beard of his.)

if this were a larger game with more players or a different set up then you might be able to push this idea. but in what started out as a 9 player game with 2 possible factions I highly doubt that!

Running up two townies as competing wagons has happened in Newbies before, as has running up both scum. This isn't a newbie, but it isn't farfetched.

voided is being sticky with his push for my lynch without giving a good reason however I liked him putting hd in his town pile. hhhmmm. I need to hear more from ft

I don't remember having him as town?

[Voidedmafia]

walls of texts

Ah, thank you.

okay so you think they are scummy. why. I am asking the same thing of hd and you both are just saying, "they look scummy". which is shit reasoning and you well know it. if you are not going to back up what you are saying with solid reasoning then you are no better than the people you bitch about who do not give reasons at all, although I can think of town motivation for not always giving a reason just not one for "oh they just look scummy" unless it is coming from lazy/sloppy town which you are not.

I thought I answered this already? Well, if not, I suppose I have time to go over it again.

pick out the specifics as to why you think I am scummy tia

Most of this revolves around your interactions with Thor on D1 and your little spat soon after he replaced in.

1.) Question or not, Thor still talked to you about sheeping him onto the HD wagon, a line directed toward you that you kinda ignored. I don't know if you honestly missed it or if you saw it and didn't address it, but the way you reacted to Thor's pressure to get you to respond did not look townie.

Actually, what makes this slightly more damning is that you DID reply to the post where Thor asks you to sheep...only, you don't actually address the "Sheep me or explain" part, but instead make a joke about schrodinger's cat. I don't see why you'd be so apprehensive of addressing the growing HD wagon at this point, as I don't remember you having a townread on HD at this point, so unless there's another option I'm missing this leads me to believe that you have non-town reasons to not want anything to do with that wagon--like, perhaps, he's your buddy and you don't want to get your hands that dirty?

2.)

you did not ask me a question thor, you made a suggestion.

scumtell #1

This is not a scumtell. Again, just because a statement does not have a question mark at the end doesn't necessarily mean it's not something you have to address. I think it's pretty clear that at the time Thor was trying to get you to express agreement with sheeping him, or to hear why you wouldn't, the lack of you doing either ties back to #1

3.) Following 449 where he asks you what your read on HD is (which is a pretty natural follow-through from asking for your vote. "Sheep my vote onto HD! You won't? Okay, so what is your read on him, then?"), you instead...vote him. You don't explain what you think about HD, you don't try to say why you wouldn't sheep (or even continue the question-dodging angle), you just vote him. Nevermind the huge

non sequitor

this is, it also reveals that for some reason or another you're not very keen on discussing HD, which is something a townie should be able to do (even if it's just a curt, "No, I'm not voting him cuz he's town/null/whatever"). There's no real town motivation behind it--but there is scum motivation. Namely, that you don't want to talk about your buddy because you're trying not to make associative tells or something along those lines. However, being unwilling to speak about the wagon creates such tells just as much as talking about it.

4.)

you then dismiss what my response was to your accusation with a lack of response to what I actually said. scumtell #2

This is slightly more doable as a scumtell, I suppose. However, given that Thor never actually dismissed your accusation but instead was asking you where he was deflecting after you accused him of such, the usefulness of using this as a scumtell is greatly diminished.

5.)

Remind me again how bad of a scum player you think I am

? <-- this is a question I want answered.

^ loaded question

there is a presumption in it.

This has been explained already, but this isn't a loaded question. If it was, there should be some way that he could turn your answer into an attack against you, and I don't see how asking you how good or bad you think he is at being scum can give him a response he can turn around and call you scummy for. I can see him telling you how stupid your are for the opinion, sure, or how it's wrong, but not how it's scummy.

Oh, yeah, it's answered right here.

Oh gawdz.
Here's a clue - did you ever call me a bad scum player? Ever? Anywhere?
Here's my question spelled out for the slow in class, and is what the above question is really asking;

"Mollie, you appear to think that, when I'm scum, I would play really badly. Is this true, and if so, why do you have this idea in your head? If it is not true, then why are you suggesting the things I'm doing are scummy when the only way you're suggesting them in being scummy is if you think I am rather lackwitted scum unable to answer an accusation - which, as I believe from your experience with me, you would have no basis to believe."

You answered by calling my question scummily loaded and kind of weak backing off from opinion of my play skills and also not addressing how weak the accusations you're soft slapping me with are.

I like the way I phrased the question.

6.) This does seem to sum up your reactions with each other up to this point:

No...you keep calling them *scumtells* because i "haven't".
And then i say "but I have, and you're dumb"
And then you go "baaaaaw" and suggest somehow I'm being mean for finding your posting terirble and drop hints that you also find *that* scummy.
Instead of maybe, y'know, isoing me?
Or, y'know, crazy thought, demanding I provide a post number to prove I've done what I've said I've done.

But you don't want to do that. You want to suggest I look scummy while not caring about finding answers.

8.) re: 547 and 572, the reasons why I like Thor's responses more than yours are because:
A. they're clear, thought-out answers as opposed to one-liners or answers that more belittle the person (or their argument rather than addressing the argument itself.
B. Said thought-out answers are reasoned out and I can follow what he's saying in them.
C. Certain answers (like to the 1st quote and 4th quote in his 555 that responds to your 547) look very much like responses that have won the arguments on these fronts, and you continuing these arguments despite this does not ring as true to me.

9.) Many of your later responses (such as in 627) are too filled with vitriol toward Thor that it looks less like you're trying to disprove his arguments and more like you're trying to discredit him.

Anyways, that's what I got through this hour, and I got another class to go to. Cya in an hour or two.

Regarding the apparant misread of the L-1, HD feels more town that before, but I'll need to look at it when I have more time.

[Voidedmafia]

4) Voided explained this better than I ever could.

This is referring to the post directly above yours?

Also, I've kinda got cold feet about the HD wagon due to that hammer stuff. Maybe I'm making myself overly paranoid (I have done a fake-hammer scenario before), but I don't want him to be lynched right now.

/inb4IgetThortosheepme

[Voidedmafia]

Stay strong, town.

...what?

[Voidedmafia]

Something makes me think that its Voided but I honestly don't know

Why, whatever could you mean?

Even so, I still have heebies about Mollie. And I suppose HD to an extent.

Also, Thor's still alive. That's usually a bad sign.

[Voidedmafia]

You're not town to me, HD. I never said you were.

You're

townier

because of the hammer shenanigans, but you aren't

town

[Voidedmafia]

It's not that bad to be honest. There's been 1 night kill...

Which was probably Majiffy.

@ Voided the angel face does not fool me, I know you are good at this game.

But everyone else says I suck, so.

Voided why do you suspect Mollie and HD?

Mollie: See my stuff about her spat with Thor.

HD: Thor's been harping on him most of the game, and I do agree with most of what he's said. I don't have the time to delve into paticulars, though.

Think of it this way: if we lynch the leader, we win. If we don't, we just go into LYLO yet again the next day, this time with one more cult member.

So you think the cult isn't X-shot in recruiting?

[Voidedmafia]

UNVOTE: thor

why did you investigate voided?

Why wouldn't he? (well, other than Thor)

[Voidedmafia]

town/scum is how I got my results, why would that even matter?

Um...re-read his question, and then try to ask him again with a straight face.

Hey, man, this issue just came up in Newbie 1307. I don't like using meta but I'm not averse to pointing out (relatively) small things that should be noticable after a time.

If the game's still going after N3, and if I'm dead by then, then I heavily implore people to look into Thor come D4. This could just be /paranoia talking, but IMO it's still a concern that should be addressed sooner rather than later.

What about him?
I think he would not be a recruit.
I think his play is questionable for a cult leader insomuch as he's antagonizing so many players.
If Majiffy had flipped Mafia or Cult I would have wanted to lynch him, but barring that I get the feeling he's just derp town trucking along and isn't worthy of death.

So you're backing off your HD-scum read?

I do not think we have a two man mafia, a 1 man SK, and a recruiting cult - no.

That doesn't really sound balanced for a 9p at all, no. Maybe if this was a mini that'd make sense.

Though, if you switch things around and make it a 1/2-man recruiting cult (not sure about how many times they can recruit) and a 1-man SK it makes more sense.

If we're talking about Void then I was going at it from a if FT was culted it makes sense that he would claim an innocent on his culter don't you agree?

I swear I'm not culted (yet). I'd probably say if I was if that didn't go against the new wincon I'd have if I was recruited.

[Voidedmafia]

What kills do you think we're missing?

I never said there were. I'm making a projection about what I'd want done on D4, barring A.) you dying tonight, or B.) something else happens that requires more attention than you.

I would think that was fairly obvious, yes,

Just checking...

Would you join me on Mollie?

5 scum would not make sense in a mini.

No, but scum+cult+SK as a general schema of anti-town would, depending on the ratios and such.

Also, gimme more than "neutral" on that one, please. You've got to have more of a reaction than that.

[Voidedmafia]

You do understand that there won't be any other kills, right?

oh, right...derp.

I already indicated that I thought Mollie was unlikely - why should I join you in voting for her?

You don't find anything I indicated about her interactions with you near when you replaced in scummy or worth looking at?

And meh.

[Voidedmafia]

Maybe less so for the machisimo part...but other than Mollie (or Thor himself) I find myself in agreement with Thor's PoE for today.

I know I'm town; FT's town for cop claim until proven otherwise; I don't really want to lynch HD (though I won't say he's a townread); Thor is someone that's going to need some looking at should the day last longer, but for now can be put on the backburner (barring any new happenings). So that really only leaves Rach and Jacob.

ANything else, Thor? Or are you done kneading that vote?

[Voidedmafia]

My intention now, as when I first opined my thoughts, is to discuss the situation with FourTrouble.

Eh, must've missed that, sorry.

Voided, isn't there the possibility FT was recruited or concluded Majiffy was SK through use of his own recruit ability?

That's why I said "until proven otherwise". Right now, though, I have no reason to believe FT is a culted cop doctoring his claim to either save a potential cult-mate in me to recruit tonight or to make sure my already-culted self is extra-specially confirmed town, nor that FT is fakeclaiming such for similar reasons. Since I have no reason to believe that, nor have I seen anything that would directly contradict his claim (cc's, other PRs claiming he lied about investigating me last night, etc.), I'm inclined to think his copping of me is real and truthful.

Though, wouldn't the SK have been recruited if the recruit ability was used on majiffy? AFAIK just because Majiffy was another 3rd part doesn't mean that he can't have his wincon changed to a cult follwer's like any other town/mafia, which I think makes his claim more believable since Majiffy flipped SPECIFICALLY as just "Serial Killer". Not "Cult Follower" (or w/e that role would be called), not "SK turned Cult Follower", just "Serial Killer". And if FT is right in that his investigations turn up as only town or scum (in other words, it doesn't differentiate between mafia-scum, SK-scum, or presumably cult-scum), it would serve to make him more conftown barring him being recruited last night.

If that doesn't make sense, please ask.

Why, who do you think I should vote for right now?

I said I agreed with your PoE onto Jacob or Rach, though I think Rach would be more likely to be the cult leader, or you, but as I said you can be put on the backburner until D4.

Or we could lynch mollie but I don't think I'll get support for that if you're going to oppose me.

[Voidedmafia]

I think I get what you're saying, but if my memory serves, isn't it true that cults can't usually recruit non-town members?

I thought cults could recruit anyone?

[Voidedmafia]

I mean, the reason they're considered bastardly is because cults literally change your wincon from "lynch mafa/outnumber town" to some form of "outnumber everyone else and/or ensure the cult leader lives" IIRC.

[Voidedmafia]

I don't either. This is my first game with a cult in it.

Thor, can you and your machisimo beard help us here?

[Voidedmafia]

It does matter. Since there are no true mafia in this game just an SK and the Cult. It would make far more sense that your reading would be town or cult with an immune on the 3rd party SK.

It IS still possible that an SK would still show up as scum (as it technically is)

[Voidedmafia]

I thought it was generally assumed that SKs are investigation immune but that shows how.much I know.

They are not usually. You're thinking of some Opens where the Sk has that option.

I've been a psychologist that could find Serial Killers (Fun fact found him N1 and spent the rest of the game Paranoid that the Mod was toying with me, it was a Normal...)

Psychologist is usually the role that has a definitive yes/no on SKs, and SKs are actually normal (so long as there's only one), so...

[Voidedmafia]

You being the cult/leader.

[Voidedmafia]

Because that would mean she'd have to argue with you

He

.

Also because the entire reason I want pressure on you is because you're still alive, which isn't (and arguably shouldn't) be a standalone case against ANYONE. It's also mitigated by the fact that I've thought you to be town since your spat with mollie (not that things have or haven't eroded it, just that you've been hanging around the town spectrum of things since then). To be frank, I'm just fucking paranoid, okay? I want you to be town so much it almost hurts because I've seen what you can do as an anti-town faction, as a player and as a mod, and if you got culted at all this game, then I seriously fear for the town.

P-EDIT: Meh, that's true enough. Though I suppose that means that town would better hope that whichever of us is left isn't culted yet, Thor.

[Voidedmafia]

I am here just been in bed most of the day cause I am sick Eating homemade chicken, rice and veggie soup that NS made for us in the crockpot.

Thor, I kinda agree on Mollie, I do not see her as likely to be the cult leader. You or Voided would make much more sense. I need to go through everyone and see. Why the hard push on HD then switch to Majiffy? What is it about Jacob and I that makes you think we are possibly the CL? I know if I were, which I am not, I would have recruited Majiffy and you.

If I were you I would've had my sights on recruiting me (VM) first, but then prioritize Thor when he came, then get me N2, then Majiffy (if possible) N3. (or switch Majif for me instead).

(and...that actually sounds pretty good.)

Thor: Same to you, though, but I get the point.

Okay, I can't say I've thought long and hard on these, but I'd really appreciate if you answered these questions (and any others I answer) no matter how derp or fuck/smurf-tarded they seem (yeah, I'm covering for myself in case I DO ask a stupid question, shaddup).

Regarding Mollie, and more specifically my take on her vs. you:
1.) Do you on some level agree with what I had outlined against Mollie a couple hundred posts back? I'm aware you probably answered this already, but I would like a definitive yes/no.
2.) If yes, if you had to rank it from 1-10 on how well you liked it, what would you give it (i.e. do you like the case itself and the points used, does the case not contradict itself etc.)? Using a similar system, how would you rank your understanding of it (are the points used easy to understand and/or follow, do the points used actually give credence to the read (which is a scum/cult-read))?
3.) What points do you like best and why?
4.) What points do you like least and why?
5.) What points do you not understand and why?
6.) If there are any points that you think I may have missed, what do you think they are?

Also regarding Mollie but aren't directly related to that case:
1.) You and I both seem to agree that Mollie may well be in the cult, yes/no?
2.) If yes, can you go a little more in-depth as to why you believe Mollie isn't the recruiter/leader (or presumably both)?
3.) If no, can you point me (and everyone else) to posts or parts that indicate that Mollie should not be considered in the cult?

a few more, unrelated to Mollie:
1.) At present you have indicated that you would prefer to lynch one of Jacobsavage and rachMarie. This is still true?
2.) If both of them were currently at L-1 (disregarding who is on the wagons) and a figurative gun was held at your head, who would you cast the hammer vote on and why?
3.) You originally came into this game with a scumread on Human Destroyer. I am aware that you did articulate somewhat why he at least isn't on your lynch list, but could you please try to restate what has pulled your off his lynch?
4.) If there had to be someone else besides Jacob or Rach that you would want lynched more, who would it be and why?
5.) If I understand correctly, the way to actually win would be to lynch the cult leader (or possibly shoot, in Majiffy's case). Even so, could someone please walk me through why hunting for the followers is not necessarily the best/a viable strat?

Actually, I would really appreciate it if everyone answered these questions to the best of their ability (though while mollie obviously doesn't have to answer those, I do find it slightly weird that she hasn't tried to debunk anything I've said as far as I've seen). Perhaps I'm gonna make everyone get unnecessarily wordy but this is probably going to be the last time Thor or myself (or even Rach) will be able to speak and still have some kind of town legitimacy behind our words before cult WIFOM will kick in.

[Voidedmafia]

Stop it HD, I dint like it when you make sense

It's actually a damn good plan for anyone, tbh. (just replace Rach/Jacob for me on N1 for anyone else and it's basically the same)

[Voidedmafia]

(though, I don't get how lynching Rach/Jacob will prove FT isn't lying)

[Voidedmafia]

Assuming that the leader thought of doing such.

[Voidedmafia]

"clear" but now they'll do so anyways if they haven't thought of it.

[Voidedmafia]

I rebutted your case on me from the get go

If you have I do not recall. Kindly point me to where if you did.

[Voidedmafia]

Thank you Mr. I-didn't-Read for your wonderful contributions to this thread while often slacking off for at least 2 days. <_<

[Voidedmafia]

2. I see no value in bothering with this.

really just trying to make sure that people where getting what I was saying.

3-6. This feels like something a newbie should be asking me in post game. I still don't see the purpose. Are you asking me to give you lessons on how to build a case?

Uh, no.

I'm asking because I felt like there was something you didn't like/didn't understand about my case, and so I'm asking that to you (and to others) mainly just to double-check myself.

(and part of this is to get lurking people (like FT) to start commenting on semi-important stuff. Not that that's succeeding at all.)

2. Sure - I have not been recruited. I think Mollie would have tried for me *and* Majiffy, she's had two shots and I'm not cult. Ergo, she is not cult.

Why not me and Majiffy, or you and me?

1. No, I dramatically changed my mind since I said that a day or so ago while not being given a chance to talk to the person I originally offered the thought to.

Can you explain what exactly made you change your mind, and who you suspect now?

3. His scumminess was more in connection with people - when I realized there was no mafia team then the question became whether his play was indicative of being cult leader. I don't think a cult leader would play as aggressive and offensive as he has - he is perfectly likely cult, but I doubt he is cult leader.

Okay, this makes sense. Though, do you think it's possible HD could be the leader, and this aggression is done for the WIFOM against what you've just explained? (more or less do you think HD could think of such a thing, and execute it)

4. A third scumspect? Eh, I'd want a massclaim for that. Meh, let's say HD.

Do you think a massclaim would even be prudent right now? (or would've been at all)

5. Let's break it down.
7 Players - potentially 3 are cult (1 leader plus 2 recruits).
So, worst case we are in 4 town vs. 3 cult lylo today.
We lynch cult recruit.
Tomorrow we are in 3 cult vs. 3 town and Cult wins.
Let me put it this way, if I was a cult recruit, and I knew we had infinite recruits, then I would play scummy as hell and laugh it up as town lynched me because my side would win.
So basically our *only* hope today is to lynch leader, or to pray cult is out of recruiting power or to pray that cult missed a recruit.
I'm praying that cult can't infinite recruit, but with the SK as opposition setup it's not an assurance. After that we can but pray that cult can't recruit FT and that they tried to recruit either FT or Majiffy already - because otherwise we are already on the precipice. Even if we're not on he precepice I'd rather try to aim correctly for what we're really doing and have discussion about it now, or else there is little value to us not being on the precipice.

Oh, okay.

[Voidedmafia]

VT.

Mollie.

[Voidedmafia]

VT.

Mollie.

Wait, that's wrong, sorry.

i'm a JOAT with a one-shot tracker, a fishing ability, and being a nurse/dep (not that that overly proves a Doctor exists/FT's telling the truth).

Though...I kinda completely forgot I WAS a PR so I never used a thing.

[Voidedmafia]

are you wanting me to answer, voided or what

Well, duh.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided I can't believe you did a Meta lol. Just before my first game on site, NS was modding a Newbie game with Meta and had an issue (town pulled off a win anyway), with Meta forgetting he was scum in the game and not sending in kills cause he thought he was VT.

Who's meta again?

And it's not like i meant to do it. Though I won't deny that I have intentionally tried not to learn my alignment once or twice. Even so, if I had remembered it I would've at least tried to track someone <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

The motivations he's ascribing to the decisions cult makes when recruiting are so reductive and simplistic I find it hard to believe anyone could possibly be convinced he's town at this point.

But this is necessarily a bad thing...why?

[Voidedmafia]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking... do you think that kind of superficial analysis is more likely to come from town or scum?

Does it matter where it comes from?

You're saying that because it's "superficial and reductive" it's coming from scum, I'm asking you why that has to be.

Voided, are there any players here who you absolutely think would have recruited you if they were cult leader? Or also to flip the question, any players here who you think most certainly would not have recruited you?

Thor, Rach, maybe Mollie. People say I'm comparatively decent as town, so *shrug*.

[Voidedmafia]

umm ya all the word is unbalanced not imbalanced (end of grammar lesson)

A cop would make more sense with the results being town/cult not town/scum and most likely would get a no result on the SK.

Considering the likely lack of a mafia team (with the cult taking up that position) this seems a likely switch.

[Voidedmafia]

How is the game imbalanced? The fact we have no idea what is going on and are probably gonna lose this game is more than enough evidence to see the game is anything but imbalanced. Cults in such a small game, with a SK to boot, make for an extremely swingy game. The investigative roles here make perfect sense, as such.

Also, how is that an indicator of non-imba?

(Happy scumday for me, btw)

[Voidedmafia]

Why is receiving results in a

Town/Scum

format suspicious? You guys seemed to believe I was legit Yesterday, why didn't anyone question my results back then?

*ahem*

Which is it? Town/Scum? Or Town/Cult?

[Voidedmafia]

Whiich would make sense in a standard setup, not in a cult setup..

Why are you asking HD?


VOTE: FT

Because he couldn't get answers from me

Votecount posthaste, chk, please?

[Voidedmafia]

(Yes, that's an intent to hammer if FT's up to L-1. If he's not, I'll just vote.)

[Voidedmafia]

Vote: FT

Said I was gonna vote after the VC.

[Voidedmafia]

...Well. Good job, jacob.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm at least glad I didn't decide to go after THor in the end.

[Voidedmafia]

Meh, I don't really give two shits about meta for the most part anyways, so yeah. There are meta freaks here, though (Empire, Feysal maybe, maybe Tierce, etc.), so it's just a divergence of opinion.

[Voidedmafia]

Meh, I feel like I threw the game because I forgot how fucking powerful I was <_<. It doesn't help that in Meta Playstyle (and in a few other recently completed games) I was some form of vanilla for either alignment for a good stretch of time.

Still don't think I would've used the track on Jacob, though. I probably would've used it on Thor when he subbed in.

[Voidedmafia]

Not that I'm not trying to give stuff about roles, but it's kinda hard to do that when arguably the most powerful role isn't even used. <_<.

Mixing in an SK (or I suppose a mafia team) to act as a balancing force for the cult recruiting seems like a good idea to me, though.

[Voidedmafia]

It's the player's fault if they forget to submit actions. The mod shouldn't be held to ensure that they do,

I mean, you can if you want, but at the end of the day it's the players fault if he does/doesn't use an ability.

[Voidedmafia]

....why would there?

[Voidedmafia]

ah.

[Voidedmafia]

Sure.

And yeah, or to better balance the cult I'd give them an x-shot amount. Otherwise they're primed for autowin the moment the only killing faction is removed.

At least for Micros. Depend on the size of the Large Theme an infinite shot CAN be inconsequential, but I'd think it'd be more like 5 or 6 shots, or something.