AMURIKA MAFIA - Game Over

[Om]

vote: PeregrineV

Your name confuses me.

[Om]

Are you scum?

Do you seriously expect anyone to answer that?

I'm more interested in knowing why you felt need to comment on that.

Ugh, joel reminds me way too much of a certain scum newb that I misread as town in my last game. I kept attributing the "scumminess" of that player as "newbie mistakes" and would have paid for it if the most of the town hadn't disagreed with me. That said, I dislike the call for no-lynch, especially so early in the game when there

is

nothing to be had. Stuff doesn't happen until later in the day. It's just how this game works.

With that in light,

FoS: joelsdaman1

.

I'm not sure whether Bulb's actions are scummy or just being overly defensive, having been the victim of a mislynch because other players misconstrued the latter as the former.

Gorgon feels a little more town than he did the last game I played with him, and since he was town in that game, that's good.

I don't have anything of particular importance to say about anyone else quite yet.

And, as I thought, I get blamed. Whatever, someone else will say something remotely weird and the new "shiny toy" will distract us.

Also, going FoS: "XXXX" is the scummiest thing ever. Pointing blame, and yet not actually voting. Plus, I'm not sure why people think I'm a noob...I've played this game for a while, but not on this site.

VOTE: SaintKerrigan

Why did you question Saint but not bulb for doing the same thing?
Also,if you're not a noob then acting very scummy atm.

Vote: Joelsdaman1

[Om]

Bulba feels Town to me, as does Gorgon.

Why exactly?

[Om]

But towns are voting you = they think you're scum. Btw, it is

your

problem. Use better ways to convince us otherwise because; appeals like that will only get you lynched faster.

@Bulba; Ok.

[Om]

If I must I'll reveal my role (if that's allowed).

Am I?

Not advisable unless you've been put at L-1 and there is an intent to hammer.
You said you've played before, where did you play? Can you link me your scum and town game?

Until I know whether or not I can reveal my role, I'll pit one question:

What *exactly* makes me seem scummy, as opposed to SK or Cryo obsessively accusing me? How does it seem like me and Bulba are a team, when we never interact, as opposed to SK and Cryo, agreeing with each other's every vote?

No one find that odd?

In simple words; what you've shown so far is not pro-town and what they are doing is. You figure out rest on your own.
As per why people think you and Bulba are team, is because you questioned FoS of SK on you, but not Bulba's. That seems like you're avoiding to draw suspicions on him.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Anywho, I'll write more later when I have the time.

I hope it's something relevant and you had nothing to say on Joel's post above yours?

[Om]

Uh, don't remember...
Oh yeah, when you said that I just jumped on the wagon; and I did. I'm off the wagon, I think Bulba's town, I think Saint's scum - not that it matters, because when I'm lynched you'll be pissed off that none of the "called team" is scum. Not my problem - town seems smart enough to figure out who's scum right now.

This seems scummy to me, joel. It seems like you're resigned to being lynched already. "Meh, just kill me and get it over with!" is how I interpret it.

Also, you have still not explained. why it's ok for Bulb to FoS you, but when SK does it, it's a scumtell. That's incongruous.

Also, no reasoning for townreads or scumreads on Bulb and SK.

Unvote

VOTE: joelsdaman1

I've not given up. I just understand that it's a team game and I'll still win if town wins.

I honestly didn't even notice Bulb FoS me. That does change my thinking a little.

UNVOTE: unvote

I need to think about it more. But for now I'm not happy with Bulb or SK - so watch out. Also, for those who accuse me for swinging votes - it at least shows I'm participating, rather than just posting a dumb joke every 72 hours and lurking. I'm trying to scumhunt, just like the rest of you. The reason I suspect SK is because he/she got really defensive and freaked out when I put pressure on her. Then again, so did I, so perhaps we're all town, and those that are lurking are mafia. That's usually how it turns out.

Those who voted for me, please read^^^

It's hip load of WIFOM.

You're flip-flopping in almost all of your posts. That's not scumhunt.

@GM

; Out of curiosity, you voted for Arca9 who had only posted 1 post for not commenting when there are other players who had posted more and didn't comment either, what am I missing?

What's your read on Joel so far?

[Om]

I hope it's something relevant and you had nothing to say on Joel's post above yours?

Considering I was just skimming for a response from Nacho and I didn't even read the thread that much, thanks for assuming that I was reading at that moment I guess?

Skimming or not, it doesn't feel right that you ignored questionable behavior of noob/scummy noob in sense that he was asking if role claim was ok (and that was the only content of the post too, so hard to miss), which was bad at that stage.
Your 98 and his 97 has difference of minute at max., makes it highly likely that you saw it on your top screen while submitting your post. I fount it odd. No need to thank me, I guess.

I approve your post 120 though. But my biggest issue with Joel is that he keeps basically saying
'why you only call me scum and not SK'
'Towns are smart enough to figure things out and it's not my problem'
'I'm scum-hunting as much as you so don't look at me'
'I'm swinging votes so I'm participating' < in post 104

I don't see how that's meta clash.
Or for voting SK for FoS but not Bulba for that matter.

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That said, I am actually not sure how it's supposed to apply to your play and would like to hear more from Om regarding that.

The reason I suspect SK is because he/she got really defensive and freaked out when I put pressure on her. Then again, so did I, so perhaps we're all town, and those that are lurking are mafia. That's usually how it turns out.

[Om]

Ah. I didn't spot this as WIFOM myself, just as a statement of opinion, but yes it is pretty WIFOM-y, although indirectly. "Mafia usually lurk, I'm not lurking, hence I'm not mafia." What's most interesting about this is that Joel hasn't followed up on this theory at all. I would have thought that a player with this opinion would look at the lurkers to find scum among them, but so far Joel has been more occupied with ... other concerns.

So, are you saying he is scum or not? Who is your scum read?
You just unvoted. I'm not particularly fan of the 'point fingers but don't vote thought process'.

[Om]

^That's why I got pissed at SK in the first place

There is difference between declaring FoS and just prompting other people on someones scumminess without doing anything about it himself.

[Om]

I find Joel pretty scummy

And this sums up the reason why I didn't vote him pretty clearly

You lost me.
Scum gives better things to read when they are at L-1. If someone quick hammers, we have someone to ask better things on D2.
Link me your last town and scum flipped game.

[Om]

@Gorgon;

That's disputable.

Not really.

I'm not sure what else it would be likely to prompt him to do that he hasn't done already.

Not

just

him; but his scum buddies. They do lot of interesting things when one of their own is at L-1 on D1. Quickhammer is one of them.

Also, this seems to be assuming that Joel is scum. How does the theory apply to town?

That's moot point and irrelevant since we both have him pegged as scum and we wont be getting someone we think is town to L-1 in first place.

True, but the day will be ended pretty early which is bad for town, especially if Joel is town.

Number of pages=/=content. But I do agree there; but if this gives us one more or at least one scum for surety; I don't see no harm there. We can have plenty of time to discuss on D2.

In one of my games the person who did what you're doing now flipped scum. So, I'm extremely curious about your stand. Tell me more, I'm listening.

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I'm wary of AA9 only in the event that Joel flips scum. All of her actions are either defending him or attacking you, both of which are not necessarily unconnected.

For AA9 and GM thing; you probably should ISO them both and look for their game together.
Her defending of Joel is similar to what Hikari is doing. So; I'm not sure why you have problem with her but not Hikari. Why is that? Can you explain to me on that?

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Arc and Cyro are both town (though I trust the latter, least)

Om is susceptible and SK still needs to die

did I miss anything?

You don't say...I wasn't joking when I gave explanation about why I called you out on not commenting on Joel post. I still haven't heard from you about it. Nor have I read an actual SK case from you.

Pre-Edit: You can't link/discuss/anything about Ongoing-Games. Cryo should be modkilled but that's up the mod to have mercy on his soul.

Oh, wow! Little quick to jump there. No need to prompt mod to do you some favor. I don't like this.

I remember he's here I just don't know why he's posted some of the stuff he's said.

Mainly, from today:

Link me your last town and scum flipped game.

So here's my big problem with this.
A) PeregrineV's last game could be a bad example.
B) Om knows the above is true and will manipulate it.

Not to mention that Om could do it himself. I mean when it's something meta related, why would you even think of giving the other person the opportunity to defend themselves against it? That's just asking to be swayed or be wrong basically.

I actually laughed here. I guess; I need to learn from you, I'll keep this in mind for future.

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I apparently have no idea what is going on.

What a surprise

.

Indeed, what a surprise. Maybe if you look little outside your catfight with AaC9 and post something more then what you've done so far things will be helpful for all of us. And we are all looking at AaC9 now and I see a town there, so why is your vote still on her?

[Om]

You mean town read?
She jumped in front of the wagon to maker her point about Joel from her own experience by saying

''he looks noob town as I was in similar position''

. She has enough experience to know how to keep distance from Joel if he was indeed her partner. I don't particularly agree with it and have Joel pegged as scum & taking strong stance is usually indicative of good town motives. By that accord; she is likely town then scum.
Also, FYI; as far as scum-hunting goes, you both have done pretty much same amount. Same as most of the players atm as far as I can see, so that's not exactly a argument indicative of alingment.

[Om]

I probably should not be posting in the condition I'm in, but given the circumstances.

I can see Hiraki being scum.
I can see Bulb being scum.

I can see Joel being either. I do not have enough confidence in my read on him either way.
We can sort Joel out tomorrow (or a vig could handle this for us), but the two above are scummy regardless of what Joel flips.

Vote: Hiraki

As questionable as his posting is, I'm not really getting scum vibes from Hiraki. Although; him being one with Bulba might explain Bulba's lack of input on him.

[Om]

Start headdesking fast enough then. I wont be voting Joel if I didn't think he was scum. So, yes, unless he flips something else, Aac9 stays likely townish. At least over you.

[Om]

Plus, you are completely ignoring the idea that Joel might be town (and when Gorgon asked about this, you sidestepped the question).

So, you think Joel is town or you know he is town, SK?
Because I'm not seeing the reason for

what if

when we are already sure enough to put him on L-1.

I also didn't like the snipe he took at Hiraki about the modkill stuff. There were plenty of other people that also commented on it, why go after Hiraki, specifically? For that matter, why bother going after it at all, since it's a really bad point?

The only other person who actually said anything about Cyro thing except Hiraki was Bulba here;

The part to AA9 about the lying or my observations to you? Also I'm unclear on the rules about games. Is it that you can't discuss ongoing games that you're in, or you can't discuss any ongoing games, even if you're not in them? I ask, because Cryo is not in that game, so I'm not sure if it is against the rules or not.

Notice how he says he doesn't know or isn't clear about the rules?

Against this

Cryo should be modkilled

but that's up the mod to have mercy on his soul.

Which was basically asking for mod-kill.

I found it odd for player to ask modkill of other, unless they are of different alignment, it doesn't benefit anyone.
Which looks questionable to you?

[Om]

@Om: No, Hiraki is quoting the normal response to this kind of incident. You are not, under any circumstances, allowed to quote ongoing games, and the heads of Cyro have claimed being fairly experienced, and have admitted themselves that it was a mistake. Hiraki is not "asking" for a modkill, he's stating the facts. Most likely in response to Bulb's confusion, but still, this is not "asking" for a modkill.

I don't believe in putting

anyone

, regardless of their alignment, at L-1 this early in the day, and especially this early in the day on Day 1. When I want someone at L-1, I want them lynched. Anything other than that is just tempting a premature hammer.

And (unlike you, apparently) I do

not

have Joel "pegged" as scum (assuming that by "pegged", you mean "sure-fire scum"). Is he suspicious? Yes. Is he the most suspicious player out of the other twelve, in my eyes? Yes. Does that mean I'm ready to put him at L-1? No.

And I conceded my accusation when Hiraki replied to it with Bulba quote. Not sure why you would bring that up again.

About the second part, I guess; I'm off slightly different thinking and like to see my scum reads get lynched. Lets agree to disagree on that.

[Om]

I thought; not replying to it = not going with that chain of thought anymore/ conceding it.

[Om]

So, let's get back to business; why are you ignoring Hiraki's vote on you? Whats your read on him?

[Om]

I think we need to work on our communication.

I'm ignoring his vote because I don't particularly care about it. You yourself commented that you didn't see an actual case from him on me.

As I stated just before our little posting spree, I'm leaning town on him.

Pre-edit: @ Bulb:

Indeed, little pointless posting sprees don't help that.