Theme Test Market

[Maestro]

Maybe they're computer hackers...?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Mason should probably be named Neighbour if it has a chance of going to scum (that's the terminology that was introduced to reduce confusion, and it's been working well; the only difference is that Masons are modconfirmed to each other as town, and Neighbours have no alignment confirmation).

I notice that there are no protective roles in the setup, but think it's probably better that way. With random arrangements, you don't want the potential of the players working out that there's a broken interaction like Doctor/Cop, then using it.

Roleblocker might be worthwhile as something to add to the rotation, though; it's pretty useful for both scum and town.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to re-name that while I was doing the rest. (they have very different naming where this was originally run)

What is White Hat and Black Hat?

Those roles always/never are revealed regardless of if Priests are alive.

[Maestro]

..........What?

What version of Priest are you using?

[Maestro]

The only one I know (lol HI QUADZ) is the one who can't place hammer votes.

[Mr. Flay]

the original game had two priests (note: not the Mafiawiki Priest) who enabled role reveal.

[Maestro]

Ah, das dumb.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Probably something else that needs to be renamed if I run it here. You don't like it?

[Maestro]

I don't like that version of Priest, no, and I think the "Smalltown" kind of setup is laid out a little more workably,
but I'm probably not who you should be gauging site opinion on.

As far as those priests go, I know they're not really under discussion but I'd just like to explain that I dislike them for the same reason Vi has said he dislikes setups where Scum have no Factional Kill. I can only guess really, because I don't remember, but I seem to think he thought it was a fundamental part of the game that Scum should be able to Kill. I'll go look up wherever it was in MD that he touched on this, but basically I think that it's a fundamental part of the game that the Town be told ACCURATE information upon a person's flip, except if the setup is specifically designed to accomodate that kind of WIFOM and/or it is actively expected in a game.

Slightly-non sequitur moment: a recent Micro I played in included Death Millers when there was no mention of bastard Modding, implied or otherwise. One of the Millers in the game was lynched and flipped Goon, and the next Night the other Miller was killed and flipped correctly. In Endgame the Mod confessed he expected us to realize that the "Goon" had been a Death Miller...nowhere in my mind would that be a normal or even feasible expectation - the same principle applies (in my mind) to any role that does not flip correctly or does not flip at all.

To me it's taken away a fundmental part of the game, not to mention the fact that I think those kinds of roles only work when specifically announced or expected beyond reasonable doubt.

[TehBrawlGuy]

I don't like that version of Priest, no, and I think the "Smalltown" kind of setup is laid out a little more workably,
but I'm probably not who you should be gauging site opinion on.

As far as those priests go, I know they're not really under discussion but I'd just like to explain that I dislike them for the same reason Vi has said he dislikes setups where Scum have no Factional Kill. I can only guess really, because I don't remember, but I seem to think he thought it was a fundamental part of the game that Scum should be able to Kill. I'll go look up wherever it was in MD that he touched on this, but basically I think that it's a fundamental part of the game that the Town be told ACCURATE information upon a person's flip, except if the setup is specifically designed to accomodate that kind of WIFOM and/or it is actively expected in a game.

Slightly-non sequitur moment: a recent Micro I played in included Death Millers when there was no mention of bastard Modding, implied or otherwise. One of the Millers in the game was lynched and flipped Goon, and the next Night the other Miller was killed and flipped correctly. In Endgame the Mod confessed he expected us to realize that the "Goon" had been a Death Miller...nowhere in my mind would that be a normal or even feasible expectation - the same principle applies (in my mind) to any role that does not flip correctly or does not flip at all.

To me it's taken away a fundmental part of the game, not to mention the fact that I think those kinds of roles only work when specifically announced or expected beyond reasonable doubt.

Anything I posted is under discussion as far as I'm concerned. Despite tons of games elsewhere, I really don't have a feel for MafiaScum's tastes, so I don't know what is or isn't enjoyed here.

I can say, though, that since the set-up is Open (pre-randomization, at least) and has been played a few times, it's definitely an expected and balanced for part of the game. That said, reduced information on death/this role is typical over there, so I'm open to removing or modifying it if MS isn't a fan.

[Maestro]

Well I'M not a fan, but again, I'm probably not the one to judge site-wide opinion off of. Many roles are considered egregiously bastard by some and good fun by others - granted those others usually come from TalkRational or EpicMafia...but we're not all loyalists to the Crown of mith.

[quadz08]

brawlguy, does that mean that when the priests are dead, there is no more role reveal?

[Maestro]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it means.

[quadz08]

*shudder*

I'd drop that role.

[Leafsnail]

If you dropped it down to "alignment reveal only" (other than for the Black Hat) when both priests are dead then it could be ok. I can see why the priests

must

be in the game - it gives the mafia a chance to avoid going 1v1 with random people over their claim.

e: Inclusion of priests also helps resist the possibility of a massclaim break, since the mafia can kill the priests to stop the town from PoEing them to death.

[Umbrage]

What about a Nolan trilogy game?

still don't think this has been done, any final objections before I run it?

[zoraster]

The Mafia Triathalon

(name is not certain)

27 players overall.

Game begins in 9 player subgames (Micro Size). Players are placed in these games randomly, but mafia has a certain number of "swaps" they can make before the games are posted. Each game has a lynch. At the end of the day for each game, the lynch is carried out and then the thread is moved so that players can no longer see or refer to the thread (vote counts will be saved).

Nights last 3 days and all players may post in the "Night Thread." Night actions are consolidated: that is, the subgames are not relevant to night actions.

Day 2 will be broken into two subgames (Mini size). Same thing as above.

Day 3 will not be broken into subgames (Large Size).

The overall goal would be approximately 9 player D1, 11 player D2, 15ish player D3. From this point forward, the game will not be wiped clean.

---

There was talk recently about how Day 1s have gotten out of hand, especially for large games, and how this tends to narrow the percent of players that can actually contribute. This tries to alleviate that by providing a "large game" feel in terms of the breadth of players, but a small game feel in terms of the Day play.

The Triathalon aspect is that it requires all three styles of game to play: Micro to start, Mini in Day 2, and then a large before going back .

Take note that Day 1 and 2 are essentially deleted, which is an attempt to make it so that players don't have to go back and reread games they weren't involved in before.
---

[IceGuy]

Take note that Day 1 and 2 are essentially deleted, which is an attempt to make it so that players don't have to go back and reread games they weren't involved in before.

Local copies can be made, though.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

Sounds like a neat idea
I'd play

[quadz08]

Local copies can be made, though.

This is the definitive pro-town play, too.

I don't think you need to wipe the prior threads, tbh. *shrug* You should be reading all 3 threads anyway. (See Otherworld Mafia for a 2-thread game, for example.)

[zoraster]

oh local copies can be made for sure, and beyond me going through the pain of getting separate forums and access etc. there's no way to stop that. But I won't allow quoting from prior games or provide others their version of the game. I think this will actually serve as a very significant practical -- if not theoretical -- barrier. Anyone who was on the scummies judging committee who tried to read through the archived games from before the crash knows what a pain in the ass a reread it is to read these saved copies.

Having people be forced to read all three games (1) won't work and (2) defeats one of the purposes of the game. If people want to read along, that's fine. But I'm not going to try and create a system that really forces that issue.

[Mr. Flay]

I think just rerolling roles and maybe disallowing quotes should be sufficient. Some people will read the old games, some won't, but trying to 'vanish' them won't work.

[quadz08]

rerolling roles

>_> where did you get this from?

[Cheery Dog]

I think just rerolling roles

I think this part would ruin the point of way the game is being setup that way.
It would remove whatever roles were lynched in the past games and just have a normal large game, which will probably be heavily sided one way and start with day 1 all over again.

[Mr. Flay]

Oh derp. Thought it was like the old game construct where a game concluded and then was 'rerolled' with the winning faction(s) playing again.

Ignore 3820 then.

[zoraster]

yeah. same game. the idea is mostly to stop what, for lack of a better word, i'll call game creep. If one of the driving ideas of the game was to try and provide a large game feel without the MEGAGAME25pagesin24hours thing in order to provide the player a richer experience, then making players follow along with two simultaneous games kind of defeats that purpose.

That stands in contrast, for what it's worth, to Team Mafia where part of the point was to get other people reading threads and the like.

anyway, I think while it may not be theoretically ideal to allow players to make local copies, it doesn't really bother me if I make it so that copies are for personal use only (i.e. prevent quoting or sharing of copies).