Mini 396: ChatMafia Mafia; GAME OVER

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: Y

for having the shortest-length username.

[ChannelDelibird]

I agree with milkman in a way. Your vote can't be random

and

be based on a suspicion at the same time, and in that sense I think you worded your post badly. But however I wouldn't call the 'suspicion' anything real to go on and I think that was evident with the 'for randomness' sake' comment afterward.

[ChannelDelibird]

Well as far as this game is concerned it is random, because it is not based on anything in this game. It is based off of experiences in other games. So you see how it is kind of random and not random?

Now this confuses me. How does 'forgetting' how to play the game constitute a vote based off another game?

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: Coron

for crap logic.

I'll make it

Vote: AngusHutchsky

. Same reason.

*coughunvotefirstcough*

[ChannelDelibird]

Plus, in the games I have played on other sites (this is my first on MafiaScum) the Mafia convieniently(sp?) forget how exactly the game goes so they can lurk without being suspicious.

And you let them get away with that feeble excuse?

Seriously, did dragyn_mage sound serious to you? His exact words were 'let's see if I can remember', not 'I have forgotten', and I think they were fairly obviously a joke.

[ChannelDelibird]

MOD:

If you could clean up the quote tag in that last post I would be very grateful. It's quoting Angus, obviously...

[ChannelDelibird]

Rules

.
.
.
5. Votes should be bolded and in this format:

Vote: Player

to count. I will not accept a vote unless if it is in the correct format.

Unvotes are not necessary to place your vote somewhere else

, but they are recommended.

Usually I do unvote, but this one seemed better without the unvote part...

Fair enough. I didn't check the unvoting rules as I always unvote by force of habit.

[ChannelDelibird]

milkman,

Both of the posts you just quoted say the same thing only worded differently.

^ Correct. Methinks milkman is trying to make more out of this than is necessary.

unvote, vote milkman

[ChannelDelibird]

1) I am new on the site, how is that acting dumb?

Because it's not about where you've played mafia before. It's the same game you've played before. Why, just because you are playing it somewhere different, is it more difficult for you? It's not stopping you from understanding that you can't random vote with a reason, etc.

[ChannelDelibird]

If Angus is scum, then CDB is prolly his scumbuddy.

I can understand that this would be a logical deduction to make from post #44.

I understand and partially agree with the Angus case at the moment (in particular Y's post #61 is well put), although the reason I'm not voting for him now is that he reminds me very much of me as newbie-townie. I do think that it's worth my while to

unvote milkman

, though, as I can't blame him for making the case he has.

I would like to hear from those who haven't posted in the last page or so.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm definitely for giving Angus the chance to confirm himself tonight - it would certainly be a strange scum role if that is his ability.

Y's post #83 rubs me up the wrong way. Could be rolefishing under the cover of trying to disprove Angus' claim.

[ChannelDelibird]

First of all, I am not positive that he is scum. I am about 80% sure, and that tends to be as high as you will ever see Day 1.

Secondly, I play alot by gut.

Thirdly, what do you mean by drop out?

You sounded like you were trying to confirm vote twito and then lurk the rest of the day.

I don't see how you can be 80% sure.

:goodposting:

I don't agree with StallingChamp's assessment of Twito's first post. Having read a few games with Twito in I think I can safely say that's standard of him and I don't see the accusation of massive lurking that you think is there.

As Jack says above, you sound like you're trying to get away with saying "why isn't everyone voting Twito?" all day without adding content.

vote: StallingChamp

[ChannelDelibird]

I see no reason to move my vote from StallingChamp at this time.

[ChannelDelibird]

I agree with Zindaras' argument wholeheartedly, but I'm torn at the moment as to whether Jack's defense is scummy or idiotic. I find it difficult to believe that Jack can't understand the irregularity that has been pointed out (it seems blindingly obvious to me), so I see it as three possible things: Jack is scum and is desperately trying to cover his slip by being very literal in his defense; Jack is town and genuinely does not understand the accusation; Jack is town and doesn't want to be caught admitting he has made a mistake, for fear of the town interpreting it as scum giving up, and so defends his point beyond the realms of credibility.

I really can't make up my mind at the moment, so I'll

FoS: Jack

and keep my vote on StallingChamp for now.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mod:

to elaborate on Y's request, I'd like to request prods for:
Coron
AngusHutchsky
milkman

And Masterchief is actually in this game? I had completely forgotten, such is the fact that that was his second post. The timing, as pointed out by Y, is very very suspicious. (Ironically, I appreciate that you won't like me doing this, Y, because it's 'content already seen from other players', but I'm not going to ignore something scummy because someone has already pointed it out, and I'm not going to make up a reason for my vote that isn't genuine.)

unvote, vote: Masterchief

maintaining a

Strong FoS: StallingChamp, Weaker FoS: Jack

[ChannelDelibird]

Did that whole PHP Quote Box hell discussion Twito and Masterchief just had have anything to do with the game?

No, it didn't, and they'd better shut up about it.

[ChannelDelibird]

@ Twito: Can you tell me exactly what is scummy about me (This goes for all the people voting me)?

I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants D1 to end. But, I didn't say you should all just vote some one for the sake of ending D1. I said that I want it to end and confirmed a vote I already had with a good reason.

I've seen days ending with the "Lets just kill somebody" reason and it's not what I was saying.

This sounds like backtracking to me.

FoS: Y

I want to hear from StallingChamp and Coron and I want content from Masterchief and HurriKaty.

Right now, I would be prepared to lynch Masterchief, HurriKaty or StallingChamp. Coron less likely, but I think I'd prefer replacement.

[ChannelDelibird]

Masterchief wagon > Y wagon.

[ChannelDelibird]

OMGUS, too. I am dead set on lynching you because I feel that you are the best bet for scum. You're still avoiding giving any opinion (except, funnily, this one. The funny part is that you said that you didn't want to give opinions because you'd just be echoing others, but now you're voting me, which is hardly echoing anyone else, as you stated you would be doing if you stated your opinions) or even a good reason for your vote.

I agree that HurriKaty's response to your pressure has been OMGUS, but I do sympathise with her feelings that if she stated her opinions she would be accused of echoing. I have felt the same during this game, although I did in fact post that I wished to echo others' opinions. Katy should at least have done this.

Not sure where I stand over the issue, frankly. With the deadline soon I might end up voting Katy, but I'd rather we lynched Masterchief.

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: Masterchief

I haven't seen him post anything of substance for a while.

Have you seen him post anything of substance ONCE IN THE ENTIRE GAME?

[ChannelDelibird]

Just posting to say I'm still here.

I want Masterchief to claim, NOW. Where the hell is he?

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote, vote MC

That's all you're saying?

FoS: AngusHutchsky

That looks very much like a scumbuddy trying to throw MC under a bus. Tell us

why

you're voting for MC, even if it's pointing out another person's reasons.

Also, I'd like to hear from you on the other subjects of discussion recently.

[ChannelDelibird]

Weird post, I'm pretty sure his reason is Deadline--let's lynch a lurker same as mine which you don't seem to comment on. He says he has a confirmable role, we'll find out tomorrow.

But you haven't just made your first real post for two weeks. That's the first thing Angus has posted in that time (except for 'I'm reading') and that makes it alarming.

You at least state with your vote that you also want to hear AniX's thoughts. I read this post as you asking for both Masterchief and AniX to comment, therefore explaining your vote as a lurker vote. Have I read that wrong?

[ChannelDelibird]

It's not as if it was looking like we might not be lynching Masterchief. He was 3 votes clear...why did you need to vote for him? If you think Y is more likely scum, that's the better place to put your vote.

You've got to tell us the reasons for your vote

when you make your vote

. Now it just looks like you're parroting the reason that Jack supplied for you.

I should point out that I still think Masterchief is more likely scum than Angus, but that's a point against Angus.

[ChannelDelibird]

I also notice that you still haven't given your view on the other goings-on despite being asked.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'd forgotten about da Vinci completely.

FoS: AngusHutchsky

[ChannelDelibird]

I would be voting Angus right now but I'd rather we had a few pages of discussion before we lynch him - which we certainly should do.

[ChannelDelibird]

I totally agree with Y, and it's also worth mentioning that I don't believe

anyone

would be given a role whose sole purpose is to confirm their innocence. There's gotta be more to it (which wouldn't make sense given the nature of the claimed role).

vote: AngusHutchsky

[ChannelDelibird]

...and it's also worth mentioning that I don't believe anyone would be given a role whose sole purpose is to confirm their innocence. There's gotta be more to it (which wouldn't make sense given the nature of the claimed role).

There could be more to it than I was told - in fact, I may have accidentally blocked the kill last night by not sending in a picture.

If I had a cup of coffee in my hand right now I'd be spitting it over the screen.

Accidentally blocked the kill?

That's both reaching and said from the perspective of a mafiate.

Alright, it's not huge, but that reads absolutely terribly.

[ChannelDelibird]

I think we should just lynch angus. We're just twiddling our thumbs here.

QFT. I can't see there being a better lynch.

[ChannelDelibird]

@ Jack - I disagree with your anti-Zindaras feeling. He seems pretty town to me in general and the defense of Angus that you've taken offense to is sensible. I do have to admit that there is a

slight

nagging feeling in the back of my mind that we shouldn't be so hasty in lynching Angus, and Zindy's caution is valid.

In fact, I'm going to

unvote

. I'm not comfortable with Angus at -1 right now, although given some more time I might go back.

[ChannelDelibird]

Because we might as well wait until tomorrow. Angus should presend his role or not forget to send his role in and then it's all fixed again.

Might as well waiting until tomorrow is giving him another chance to forget, and personally, I dont feel chances should be given out like candy.

And if he is telling the truth about his role, then there's no way he's going to forget twice.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mod:

could we get an extension on the deadline please? Particularly with the probable AniX-replacement, and stuff. Also, could we get a prod on milkman?

[ChannelDelibird]

WARNING: This post is quite long.

Post by Post Analysis: Jack

(spontaneous decision)

Post 14: votes dragyn_mage for saying he didn't remember how to play the game. Which isn't what he said.

Post 26: votes milkman for not counting correctly and says "you seem to be making a serious accusation when there isn't much to go on". Looking back, I don't think it's as big a deal as Jack makes out.

Post 34: Atones for 26.

Post 69: You expect him to say that he's NOT pro-town? WTF?

Post 79: Translation: IF YOU DON'T CLAIM A POWER ROLE YOU WILL DIE!

Post 94: I don't really have a problem with this.

Post 99: "I don't see what was dangerous about my lynch-2 vote". Naive, but I don't have a problem with lynch-2.

Post 110: not important.

Post 112: Votes StallingChamp for his ridiculous Twito crusade. Entirely valid.

Post 114: Equally valid.

Post 125: Votes Coron for lurking despite StallingChamp being a very appropriate place for his vote. I don't get it.

Post 128: So now you're sure that Angus is innocent?

Post 130: "I can only vote for one person!!!!! ...who were the other lurkers?" Asks why voting for lurkers when the game is dying down is scummy. Answer: because prods are better and StallingChamp is scummy.

Post 132: Overreacts to Zindaras.

Post 136: "you can't notice any irregularities if people don't post". So you get them prodded/replaced. Just because people aren't posting doesn't mean that if they were, they'd be scummy.

Post 137: See above.

Post 138: "Just because townies do it doesn't mean scum don't." That's not an argument. We look for scummy things, not things that could be just as townish, if not more, as they are scummy.

Post 140: And if you do single someone out, you're ignoring someone potentially just as scummy.

Post 142: "Why is it scummy that I haven't unvoted Coron?" Because you feel he's more likely scum than StallingChamp, for example - you are voting for someone who

might

post something scummy ahead of someone who has. It's also that you're singling him out.

Post 144: to Zindaras - "and you have done what?" Pointed out your irregularities.

Post 146: Is wrong.

Post 148: It's not about whether you feel it's irregular

for you

, it's an irregular action. There were multiple people not posting. You only mentioned Coron. That is irregular, because some are pressured and some are left doing what they were before.

Post 150: "I haven't treated the similar cases at all...yet." Exactly!
"Why is that scummy?" Because you could be trying to protect a lurking scumbuddy by singling out another lurker, or attacking a townie you felt was dangerous.

Post 152: I don't agree with your wording here, particularly as you say lurking makes it less likely to get "correct cop investigations". WTF? You can investigate somone just as competently if they are not posting as if they are.

Post 155: Again reiterates his rubbish defense against his irregularity and tries to get Zindaras lynched for it.

Post 159: Tries to liken his singling out of Coron for lurking to Zindaras' singling out of Jack as scummiest player by voting for him, which is completely different.

Post 160: Goes back to voting Coron, essentially for lurking again.

Post 185: Not important.

Post 207: Says HurriKaty looks like scum looking for an easy Twito lynch after she said he could be a Jester. That's not an easy lynch! A Jester is the last person you want to lynch.

Post 217: I don't really see the importance in Angus saying what he's going to draw beforehand...

Post 224: States the obvious. "So you think he could could be a scum artist? But that would mean he isn't a confirmed innocent at all." This is one of, if not the main, reason I was voting for Angus, because I can't see us just being given a confirmed innocent player.

Post 237: Tells Y off for suggesting that we lynch a lurker. Cough cough.

Post 255: Explains that he voted Angus for hinting at a power role. I don't think it was

very

scummy, as I've seen pro-town players do that sort of thing to get us to back off and not expose their role, which can be helpful. I do agree that it's iffy.

Post 266: Encourages HurriKaty to post whose opinions she agrees with instead of not posting because she hasn't got any new content. I generally agree with this.

Post 271: meh.

Post 278: I do feel you are making too much out of Coron not posting 'tomorrow' as he had said he would. This is the kind of thing I do all the time, and I can't be scum in every game. Zindy's following post is good...

Post 280: ...making this a bit silly. I really do think that half the reason you're attacking Zindy is that he doesn't agree wholeheartedly with you.

Post 297: Is overly harsh on HurriKaty, but as I agree with the case on HurriKaty at the time I don't think it's anything scummy.

Post 304: Makes a good vote on HurriKaty.

Post 306: unvotes Katy for doing what she was asked to do. Fair enough.

Post 307: Makes a valid observation about StallingChamp's continued scumminess but doesn't vote. ?

Post 330: Votes MC and asks for AniX to speak up. Exactly how I felt at the time.

Post 335: I commented on this at the time - he's confused by my FoS of Angus for bandwagoning MC.

Post 349: Votes Angus at the start of Day 2. I've made clear my stance on him earlier today.

Post 354: Angus case...

Post 378: Itching to lynch Angus.

Post 381: "The only reason not to vote [Angus] is that tomorrow could prove it without a doubt."

...EXACTLY.

Post 390: Claims we'd lynch Angus tomorrow if we let him live today, which obviously would not be the case if he's telling the truth.

Post 400: Brings up a point against Angus that I came across doing this PBPA. Angus forgetting to send in a picture choice might have been coupled with forgetting to send in a kill choice. However, that would require a lurky mafia partner, unless he was in a two-person group, which is not

impossible

...

Post 403: "Why did you point it out?" Because you in particular are trying to get him lynched quickly and he's trying to survive. That's as pro-town as it is pro-scum.

Post 407: "I don't think we're getting anywhere". Translation: "LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHANGUS"

Post 411: Same.

Post 424: As I said a few posts ago, I disagree with this.

Post 429: And this.

Post 431: And this.

Post 435: "I don't see any reason to doubt his scumminess". Please look back at your own Post 381 in which you do.

Post 437: Jumps to conclusions about number of scum, and reiterates his LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH viewpoint.

Apologies for how bloody long that was.

Now, at the end of all that, I'm going to

vote: Jack

, principally for his singling out of Coron as a lurker, especially when StallingChamp deserved pressure, and for trying to rush an Angus lynch. And, indeed, for all the little things I posted above.

[ChannelDelibird]

2) Jack indeed singled out Coron as a lurker. May I point out that Masterchief was also a lurker, and scum to boot?

Good catch, I'd briefly forgotten about MC when I was discussing the possibility of protecting a lurking scumbuddy.

[ChannelDelibird]

And what if there is no picture tomorrow and all we get is an explanation that he didn't have time for mafia?

There's no way he's going to get away with that twice, but I think we can afford to let him get away with it once.

These 2 I find scummy about Jack but then again he was one of the only players backing me up on StallingChamp.

Uh, you what? As I remember there were quite a few, myself included. There's also the fact that we don't know StallingChamp/AniX is scum, and if he is, Jack could have been bussing (which would be a good reason for him to jump on a lurker instead).

[ChannelDelibird]

And you see no reason why I shouldn't have become a little bit cautious stringing Angus up like that?

I'll respond to the main body of your response to my PBPA after my dinner, which I'm going for now, but I should elaborate...after deciding I should look at other players than Angus, you seemed to be a good candidate as you'd been pushing the lynch and Zindy was voting for you.

[ChannelDelibird]

ok more detail.

WARNING: This post is quite long.

Post by Post Analysis: Jack

(spontaneous decision)

Yeah right.

Yeah. Right.

Post 14: votes dragyn_mage for saying he didn't remember how to play the game. Which isn't what he said.

page 1

I know where it was - but he DIDN'T say he didn't remember. He said "let's see if I can remember". i.e. he was rusty.

Post 69: You expect him to say that he's NOT pro-town? WTF?

Post 79: Translation: IF YOU DON'T CLAIM A POWER ROLE YOU WILL DIE!

I was wrong on this. I was thinking it's an easy scum claim to say you have a power role but not say what it is. Some roles it's best not to claim though, don't think Angus's is one of them mind you.

I do agree that Angus' claimed role is one that needs to be hinted at in the manner that it was, but I didn't have a problem with it.

Post 125: Votes Coron for lurking despite StallingChamp being a very appropriate place for his vote. I don't get it.

I get impatient.

Which is not behaviour helpful to the town.

Post 128: So now you're sure that Angus is innocent?

Was conditional. If he was innocent they would lurk.

I'm inclined to think that they'd be more likely to bandwagon if he was innocent, but there is some merit to this.

Post 130: "I can only vote for one person!!!!! ...who were the other lurkers?" Asks why voting for lurkers when the game is dying down is scummy. Answer: because prods are better and StallingChamp is scummy.

I've always voted instead of asking for prods.

Are there any links you could provide to games in which you've done this as pro-town? Also, prods > single votes in terms of pressure on players.

Post 140: And if you do single someone out, you're ignoring someone potentially just as scummy.

Temporarily.

You showed no signs of there being other lurkers for you to go after. And I'm sorry, however "temporary" it is, you are still letting people slide who have an equal chance of being scum.

Post 142: "Why is it scummy that I haven't unvoted Coron?" Because you feel he's more likely scum than StallingChamp, for example - you are voting for someone who

might

post something scummy ahead of someone who has. It's also that you're singling him out.

You get a lurker to post something and then you move on. There's plenty of time.

Hey, whaddaya know? Prods get them all to post something at the same time! Also, why didn't you say when you voted Coron who also needed to post, so that they might see your vote and notice that you felt the lurkers were scummy. That would do just as good a job. I don't think your defense is standing up very well, to be honest.

I also think your definition of irregular is wrong but don't want to get into another discussion about it.

OK, if you don't want to use 'irregular', try 'inconsistent'. Or maybe you prefer 'biased'.

Post 237: Tells Y off for suggesting that we lynch a lurker. Cough cough.

I never said anything about lynching coron.

You find lurking scummy, yes? You find scummy people lynch-worthy, yes? No, it's not quite the same as Y, but post 237 contradicts your stance on lurkers.

Post 278: I do feel you are making too much out of Coron not posting 'tomorrow' as he had said he would. This is the kind of thing I do all the time, and I can't be scum in every game. Zindy's following post is good...

Isn't this a prime example of "irregular" behavior even though it isn't irregular for you? In fact you saying this while disagreeing with my defense is "irregular". Gosh, you must be scum.

The point I'm making here is that it's not particularly pro-town OR pro-scum to not be able to post when you wanted to. If all you wanted was for a lurker to post some content, then you could afford leeway of a couple of days within his time frame. I don't think this is irregular.

Also, saying I "must be scum" and not voting for me is noted.

Post 280: ...making this a bit silly. I really do think that half the reason you're attacking Zindy is that he doesn't agree wholeheartedly with you.

Possible :p

Exactly. Disagreement is not a scumtell, it's a talking tell.

snip

HYPOCRITE as alreayd pointed out. Also, I've never been particularly patient.

Addressed in my previous post - don't you see why I might have become cautious about stringing up Angus like we were about to? Patience addressed above.

Now, at the end of all that, I'm going to

vote: Jack

, principally for his singling out of Coron as a lurker, especially when StallingChamp deserved pressure, and for trying to rush an Angus lynch. And, indeed, for all the little things I posted above.

Hopefully I've addressed them.

Only the smaller ones, I'm afraid. I still feel very comfortable with my vote on you.

[ChannelDelibird]

If you think lurking is neutral as opposed to scummy, why did you vote for somebody for lurking?

You haven't answered my question. Don't you see why I might have become cautious about stringing up Angus like we were about to?

You know, Angus could actually be telling the truth. If he can confirm himself tonight that's good for the town, if he doesn't he's dead scum. That's a win-win for the town. We're not in LyLo.

[ChannelDelibird]

If you think lurking is neutral as opposed to scummy, why did you vote for somebody for lurking?

You haven't answered my question. Don't you see why I might have become cautious about stringing up Angus like we were about to?

You know, Angus could actually be telling the truth. If he can confirm himself tonight that's good for the town, if he doesn't he's dead scum. That's a win-win for the town. We're not in LyLo.

So they stop lurking.

I think "I can't believe people don't think he's not scum" answers the question.

See above.

OK then, so in your view it's 100% completely impossible that Angus is town and simply didn't get his night choice in?

[ChannelDelibird]

Let me explain this as clearly as I can.

I am not convinced that Angus is town. I don't, however, feel that he's definitely scum yet. I think I and others have been rash in bringing Angus so close to a lynch today when he could confim himself tonight as either town or scum, depending on whether a painting appears tomorrow.

From what I can tell you're saying that if my feelings change over time I am scum for acting accordingly. It is not unusual for somebody to realise that perhaps their past actions have not been perfect.

[ChannelDelibird]

Somehow this prompts him to to a pbpa. He claims this was spontaneous which is a really odd claim. It's like he wants to assure us it has nothing to do with Z's vote for me.

I do not claim that it has nothing to do with Zindy's vote for you. Quite the contrary, I mention that the fact that you are an alternative is part of my reasoning for looking at you. Here is the post:

I'll respond to the main body of your response to my PBPA after my dinner, which I'm going for now, but I should elaborate...after deciding I should look at other players than Angus, you seemed to be a good candidate as you'd been pushing the lynch and Zindy was voting for you.

If you look at any game that I have played in the past, you'll see that a PBPA is, if not a first, a second-time-ever thing for me to do. In that way it was spontaneous (i.e. I don't think we should by lynching Angus today -> Who should we lynch instead? -> Jack seems to be really pushing the Angus wagon, and he is already suspected by another player enough for a vote -> Oh! I could do a PBPA as I am bored, have the time, and could usefully see if it's worth my while voting for him.)

In his last post he says he thinks it was rash, but that it wasn't scummy that he was rash. Then he says I'm rash and therefore scum. It really doesn't follow.

How and when have I said that being rash wasn't scummy? The entire point I've been making is that the Angus wagon is scummy.

Now, if you read Zindaras's post 423 it doesn't actually defend Angus.

You interpreted it as such, in the very next post.

I don't like Zindaras defense of angus. It looks like either defending scum buddy or "see guys I told you he was innocent".

[ChannelDelibird]

My post is irrelevant. You aren't answering the charge against you. If I said there was a defense, and you said the defense was sensible, you must have read such a defense and agreed with it. But if there was no defense for you to read (whether I said there was or not), then you didn't really agree with anything. What part of zindies post was a defense of angus that you thought was sensible?

Your post is entirely relevant - because it shows that if you are voting me for backing up a defense that wasn't there, then you are a hypocrite for attacking said defense.

You called it a defense, I put it in your terms.

I don't have time right now to respond to the entirety of your post (it's getting late and I am going to bed) but my general feeling upon reading it through was "that's bollocks".

[ChannelDelibird]

Did I sign up to replace for this? Did I really? Man, I totally forgot. Was I drunk at the time? Did Alko slip like cocaine into my drink and then ask me?

Uhh...I mean...I DESCEND FROM THE HEAVENS UPON THIS GAME. I AM JUSTICE...I AM LAW...I AM ONE OF MANY AND MANY OF ONE! I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA! MR. 11TH HOUR HAS ARRIVED AT THIS GAME!

Ok, I really need to

read this game

examine this game with my awesome powers of deduction.

HALLELUJAH!

-------

In other news, HurriKaty, do you really consider 1 night the only chance we can afford to take on somebody who could be at best a confirmed innocent?

[ChannelDelibird]

Jack, I think you should claim.

[ChannelDelibird]

Jack, I think you should claim.

Also, why are you so eager? Half the people on my wagon haven't even commented since I started defending myself.

@Zindaras: Yes I know. Y mentioned putting me at -1 which would be a bad idea.

I'm eager because you're at lynch -2, 3 days before deadline. I want us to have enough discussion time about your claim before deadline, and I really don't see this not ending up in a claim, frankly.

That's a seperate issue to the one that was raised. You agreed with a defense that wasn't there. I called it a defense of angus in the way that "the best defense is a good offense", but that can't be the kind of defense you were referring to (ie it's not an explanation of why angus wasn't scum). Your evasion on this is noted.

Agreeing with someone without looking at their post closely is exactly what scum do when contriving an argument.

Translation: "O SNAP, I called it a defense too? Um...I meant it in a different way! Honest! But I, uh... knew what you were thinking and you didn't! YEAH! "

Come on.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm eager because you're at lynch -2, 3 days before deadline. I want us to have enough discussion time about your claim before deadline, and I really don't see this not ending up in a claim, frankly.

[ChannelDelibird]

I think you're more likely scum than Angus because:

-You've been pushing awful hard for his lynch despite him being given one more night to clear himself or get lynched being a reasonable thing to do.
-You took the heat off a scummy player, StallingChamp, in order to go after a lurker (easy option for scum).
-In voting for that lurker you ignored others who were doing the same thing.
-I feel your defense has been in places poor (particularly concering the lurker issue) and your latest part of that defense ("unfortunately for you, everyone else can read") is another good example. Before anyone else has actually given their view on the post I was commenting on you say they think differently (which you can't know).
-Despite having 4 votes on you and being very near to deadline, you've refused to claim. I think you're stalling (maybe because you don't know what's a credible claim for this game).

[ChannelDelibird]

The

entire

basis of the lynch is that the lack of a picture in the morning. I've seen more experienced and active members miss night choices before. It's not the nailed-on scumlynch you're making it out to be.

[ChannelDelibird]

I've said he was scummy. I've never said that I was as sure as you are.

I saw the claim, not sure what to make of it. Doesn't look like a fake claim, but I have no idea whether a Jar of Dirt would be a possible scum role. I'll probably reserve judgement until the full claim, when it comes. (I think when > if at this point.)

[ChannelDelibird]

Is that from PotC: Dead Man's Chest? I haven't seen that one, only the first one.

[ChannelDelibird]

I see.

Anyway, I fail to see how there's a case for jar of dart being inherently evil OR good. I don't think you can expect us to say "oh, that's definitely a town role" just by looking at the name.

[ChannelDelibird]

We need to hear from:

AniX
milkman
Y
HurriKaty
Angus
dragyn_mage
Coron
Twito

Most of these people are not posting enough.

[ChannelDelibird]

No, I don't want to lynch you for your claim. I want to lynch you for reasons I mentioned prior to your claim. I just wanted to point out that saying "it's not inherently evil" doesn't clear you.

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote, vote: Angus

because the claim is believable. dragyn_mage is now probably town, which is good to know.

I'm still annoyed about your behaviour, Jack, but it looks like you're probably town.

(of course, you could have been stalling so that some of the lurkers wouldn't check in in time to counterclaim before the deadline...however, if that's the case we'll nail you tomorrow anyway.)

[ChannelDelibird]

Y, reasons why Jack's claim is believable:

-the lack of N1 kill corresponds
-Zindy's already said he's seen the movie and he's not complaining about the flavour

[ChannelDelibird]

Let me put it this way - I'm pretty certain that we have at least one inactive scum, so to speak. Y (and others who have solved the riddle, i.e. Coron), you're begging the question: why aren't you telling Zindy the answer? Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but I think you should help him out.

[ChannelDelibird]

Zindras, you're begging the question, how do you not find the answer to that? Psh.
I'm not sure Zindy is town ergo I have some doubts about saving him. If you assume he's town per se, you're so linear. So the question is what are your parameters for saving Zindy?

Verily,
Coron

In terms of my reasons for thinking Zindy is town, let me put it this way: I have role-based information in his favour, as it were, ergo I believe he is worth it.

You're so linear.

[ChannelDelibird]

In terms of my reasons for thinking Zindy is town, let me put it this way: I have role-based information in his favour, as it were, ergo I believe he is worth it.

You're so linear.

In terms of roles, there are three that can give you the information you claim to poses, i.e. cop, mason or mafia. Could you tell us when did you acquire such information and why weren't we notified when he was attacked D1?

I acquired this information on Night 1, as it were. Concordantly I didn't bring it up on Day 1, but be that as it may, if it had been at my disposal I wouldn't have used it. Zindy wasn't exactly about to get lynched, per se.

Zindy - that's interesting. I think it might be worth revealing who it is, as so to speak my role also suggests that that person is scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

Verily, I don't think it'll hurt for me to vote for a certain person, i.e. milkman, so to speak, ergo that is what I shall do. Q.E.D.

vote: milkman

[ChannelDelibird]

This list of required phrases is really getting on my nerves, hence the reduction in posting.

unvote milkman

, seems like a fair reason for not using all night choices.

I'm going to

vote: AniX

. I didn't like StallingChamp's behaviour on D1 and exactly nothing has been done by AniX to allay my fears.

Y is probably my second bet. Twito just looks like he's as pissed off with the restriction as I am.

Let me put it this way
Be that as it may
Far be it from me
In terms of
Concordantly
Vis-à-vis
Per se
As it were
Verily
Qua
So to speak
ergo
Q.E.D.
e.g.
i.e.
You're begging the question.
You're being defensive.
Don't compare apples to oranges.
What are your parameters?
You're so linear

[ChannelDelibird]

In addition to his role he was given the chance to make a law on the night in question, but declined.

As it were
Verily
Qua
So to speak
ergo

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote, vote: milkman

Would prefer a now a ranger or Y lynch, but will settle for this if I must.

Jack, I think it would be a good idea to protect me tonight.

Verily
As it were
Q.E.D.
so to speak
You're so linear

Mod:

what are the deadline lynch rules?

[ChannelDelibird]

I think you're probably one of our scum, and I think Y could be as well but I'm less sure of it. I voted for milkman because we have a deadline in 10 hours, and No Lynch is a bad idea.

[ChannelDelibird]

given the deadline rules

Unvote,Vote:ChannelDelibird

He seems way to anxious to make sure milkman has the most votes.

Verily
As it were
Q.E.D.
so to speak
You're so linear

Why does nobody understand that I want a lynch today? We get INFORMATION! That's good for the town! No Lynch leaves us exactly where we were tomorrow.

Deadline should have passed already by now, which probably means that you've fucked this up for the town. kthxbai

[ChannelDelibird]

given the deadline rules

Unvote,Vote:ChannelDelibird

He seems way to anxious to make sure milkman has the most votes.

Verily
As it were
Q.E.D.
so to speak
You're so linear

Why does nobody understand that I want a lynch today? We get INFORMATION! That's good for the town! No Lynch leaves us exactly where we were tomorrow.

Deadline should have passed already by now, which probably means that you've fucked this up for the town. kthxbai

Q.E.D.
verily
as it were
so to speak
you're so linear

Q.E.D.
Verily
as it were
so to speak
You're so linear

[ChannelDelibird]

Let me put it this way - we STILL have to do this ridiculous law? I was thinking/hoping/desperately praying to all the world's gods that we'd got rid of that.

Jack, vis-à-vis said law, if you weren't dead already I'd kill you for it.

Zindy, you're begging the question. Why isn't Now A Scumbag in your list?

Some twonk/scum blocked me last night, ergo you're still the only one I have info on. I think I was blocked last night as well. The fact that you're the only player I am confident is town concordantly makes me more annoyed that you aren't recognising that Now A Mafia should be Now A Corpse.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm finding this silly law - i.e. the post restriction - to be the biggest hindrance to my contribution.

Quoted For Truthery.

Vote: I_am_Scum

. For crying out loud, this guy needs to die.

Ergo
Q.E.D.
You're begging the question
In terms of
Per se

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, our trip back in time was clearly to allow us to correct our mistake. We must lynch I_aM_ScuM.

[ChannelDelibird]

IIRC, we did actually lynch I_aM_ScuM and he came up town.

Are you serious?

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, my best guess right now for our scum is Hurri and I guess Twito. I'll have a reread of the first two days and see if I can find anything there.

[ChannelDelibird]

I simply remember a couple of things rubbing me up the wrong way on I think Day 2, but I really need to look at it in more detail, something I've not quite been able to do yet.

Frankly, my scumdar's been completely off the whole game, so I'm not placing too much faith in my hunches at the moment.

[ChannelDelibird]

We either need Coron and Twito to start posting regularly or get replaced. We're probably in Lynch or Lose, so we can't afford people not talking.

[ChannelDelibird]

Would prefer a deadline extension/removal over replacement, but obviously Coron needs to show up too.

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, I'm back. Sorry about that, it was totally unforseen.

Coron is not the play.

I am tempted to vote Twito because of his general inactivity and unhelpfulness, but at LyLo I'm not so fond of it.

Mod: please don't move the deadline.

Wednesday's good.

I'm gonna take a long hard look at Twito, Katy and Hacker.

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, I was thinking about this anyway. I'm probably going to die tonight anyway.

I am Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and I am both a Cop and a Vigilante. On odd nights I am Cop, even, Vigilante.

N1 I investigated Zindaras and got Innocent.
N2 I tried to kill Y, but obviously that didn't work. My guess is that Jack protected him, that seems plausible.
N3 I investigated Coron and got Innocent.
N4 I killed Y.

Obviously, if I'd had more results I would have acted on them earlier.

[ChannelDelibird]

Possible, but I would rather not lynch my innocent in LyLo just to test that.

[ChannelDelibird]

Bah, deadline's gonna hit and I'm no more sure who's the scummiest here. I'll have to

vote: HurriKaty

for the sake of a lynch.

Good luck town, I don't expect to survive tonight.

[ChannelDelibird]

I got an innocent on Hacker, which likely means that either he or Coron is a GF, or that Twito was in a two-person mafia and has some power, probably the riddles. Either way, Twito is almost certainly scum.

The lack of kills at night suggests to me that Coron is more likely scum than Hacker on ground of activity levels, but I think we should probably mass claim.

I have an idea about the riddle but not sure enough to make a guess yet. Suggestions are welcomed, although all will be taken with a pinch of salt.

[ChannelDelibird]

Or I'm naive, which would be very bastardly.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yeah, that looks the most likely answer. I actually had a different one (which now that I look back on it was really stupid), but I'll go ahead and PM that to the mod.

I'd prefer to pick the order but I want everyone to check in first.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm not cleared, but if you have a reason to doubt me please say so.

[ChannelDelibird]

Well, I think Twito should go first. Any objections?

[ChannelDelibird]

Hacker - I claimed Cop/Vig. Check your facts.

You also seem to be ruling out the possiblity of Coron as a Godfather. Not sure why, seeing as I've never said I'm guaranteed sane.

Also, if we had two scum then it would still be game on, because 2 is not a majority with 4 alive.

I think mass claiming is the best option, just so we can sort out what we're (potentially) dealing with. I can also see it being very hard for scum to make up a fake claim in this game (although that might suggest the presence of safe claims).

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm inclined to agree that at least one of Coron/Twito is nailed on scum on inactivity grounds.

Congratulations on using three different abbrevations of my username in that post, by the way (CDb, CDB, and CdB).

[ChannelDelibird]

Of course,

all

of the above rests on the incorrect assumption that I am scum. Have you thought about what might be best to do with CDBtown, Coron?

[ChannelDelibird]

This is why I hate playing with Twito.

Also, Coron, you didn't factor in the (proven) presence of a doctor in your analysis.

[ChannelDelibird]

Hacker - that's because I had made a kill attempt in the previous night that had not gone through. With a total of 0 kills during the night it seemed logical to me that scum might have forgotten to send in a kill.

[ChannelDelibird]

Which points towards 1 Mafia + 1 SK. I can't really see there only being 2 scum in this game.

[ChannelDelibird]

Just on a random tangent, we might want to look at non-killing neutral roles as possibilities for a third 'antitown' role. Maybe a Survivor or something?

Kinda thinking out loud here.

[ChannelDelibird]

Still supporting replacement.

[ChannelDelibird]

Which points towards 1 Mafia + 1 SK. I can't really see there only being 2 scum in this game.

So you're saying we've got you as a cop/vig, plus an SK and one mafia?

At the moment that seems the most likely circumstance to me.

Just out of curiosity, do any of you doubt that I'm town?

Only in the senseless paranoia way that I get with all players in any game. I certainly think you're more likely town than Twito, and probably Coron.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh FFS, can we

please

replace Twito?

[ChannelDelibird]

Yeah, I know, I just wasn't sure if you were still going down that route after Twito came back and posted.

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: Twito

Thinking about it, he's the best lynch anyway.

[ChannelDelibird]

Thanks alko, and Scope too.

unvote

until Scope has a chance to read up & post thoughts.

[ChannelDelibird]

We're thinking 2.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yes, you should claim.

[ChannelDelibird]

Scope should probably decide.

[ChannelDelibird]

As I understand the role, it's a Doctor that dies if its target is attacked.

[ChannelDelibird]

Twito, don't be an idiot. Once per week does not an endgame suit. Now please stop talking in this thread.

[ChannelDelibird]

Please no.

[ChannelDelibird]

Well, if Coron's not going to claim I am still stuck between him and Twito, leaning towards Twito (replacement issues aside). I have reservations about whether Jesus fits in with the theme of the other role names in the game.

[ChannelDelibird]

As I said, I don't think there is only one mafia. There's likely two scum of some sort, possibly the same alignment. With 4 alive it wouldn't be LyLo.

[ChannelDelibird]

That's a bad idea.

[ChannelDelibird]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote]
I have reservations about whether Jesus fits in with the theme of the other role names in the game.
[/quote]How come? Could you eleborate a little more?[/quote]

Sorry, that was my mistake, I had forgotten about Da Vinci being in the game. I'm not actually worried about this any more.

[ChannelDelibird]

...

[ChannelDelibird]

From my perspective, I have eliminated the possibility of both Twito and Coron as scum. If that's the case, they would win by lynching either me or CDB. CDB - do you concur?

That would require one of us to vote for each other, as it is three to lynch, so I don't see how you can have eliminated the possibility yet. How have you reached this conclusion?

[ChannelDelibird]

Hmm, that may be true but I wouldn't want to rely on that as definite evidence against the scumpair. That said I'm fairly certain that at least one of them is scum in some way, it's just a matter of deciding which one to vote for...

[ChannelDelibird]

Prod received, still here, just trying to decide whether I am voting Coron or Scope. Leaning towards Scope.