A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Throne Books. Spoilers)

[Faraday]

theon pov's = the best written in the series. (Including his clash stuff which owned)

finish the series and then come back arcangel!

[Faraday]

actually the greyjoys are definitely awesome as a whole. victarion/theon/arya all have pretty good pov's and the damphair's no areo hotah either.

i presume the reeds are bannermen because "tradition" or there's some ancient debt between the reeds and the starks and they come when the starks call. or maybe they're just nice people.

[Faraday]

They submitted to House Stark when Rickard Stark, King in the North, defeated the Marsh King and took his daughter as wife.
^ from the game of thrones wiki

that's kind of all there is about it though which is not a very thorough explanation.

[Faraday]

Dany's chapters in ASOS were her strongest. Interesting things happaned in GOT - but her POV wasn't that interesting, if that makes sense. Her ACOK chapters were all pretty bad apart from the House of the Undying which was cool as fuck. Her Dance chapters felt like they could have been condensed - they were too many and some did feel like filler. Her last chapter in Dance was also great, though.

Tyrion's chapters were good with Ilyrio and Jon - but once he met up with Jorah/Penny was a slave they became less interesting. The Brown Ben Plumm stuff could have Tyrion at his best, though.

Jon's I thought were actually pretty good - be it the Stannis interactions, the trying to intergrate the Wildlings, or just general every day stuff they kept me interested.


I don't mind Hotah's chapters - Doran's an interesting guy. It's just...he, himself, is dull as ditchwater.

[Faraday]

yeah he's not needed. I mean they can keep him as I guess doran needs a bg or guard but he doesn't need a lot of screen time. he can just be big + dangerous + menacing.

[Faraday]

anyone can really? there's no real significance to who kills him, that I can see.

[Faraday]

(at least not yet)


I AM DARKSTAR. speaking of i was planning on running an asoiaf upick at some stage as there's a massive fanbase on the forum + it'd be cool. but back to actual asoiaf stuff, I guess


speaking of oakenhart(sp?) I really thought his one chapter was very well written the soiled knight one.

[Faraday]

HOW MANY EYES DOES LORD BLOODRAVEN HAVE? A THOUSAND EYES, AND ONE.

[Faraday]

I don't think so? As in, she could still be a faceless man just older?

And uh, yeah, well the Arya thing will hit her hard. I wonder if they'll end episode 9 with the possibility of her being dead from the Hound's axe or whatever.

@ the stannis stuff though. Feel like they don't always "get" the character. They're very hit and miss. His interactions with Melisandre just seem off to me.

[Faraday]

Nah, it was cut.

[Faraday]

*shrug* it definitely didn't make it in, in the original showing. Having Bran and Robb use the line would be pointless - for what? Not sure if it made the DVD's - but I'm skeptical

[Faraday]

If you'd seen Misfits you'd have realised the casting was genius. He does creepy very well. Also...he's going to have fangirls/boys as he's going to be "fucked up" but kinda cute!

[Faraday]

Does he though? Or does he want a blackfyre on the throne! Didn't he spread rumours about Rhaegar at some point or am I misremembering?

[Faraday]

Yeah, that's the stuff I'm on about. Don't see him being a "targs rulez, y'all drool" guy with him doing that - considering rhaegar was generally pretty sound.

Apart from abducting lyanna stark.

How dare he!

[Faraday]

hedge knight is long agooooooo.

um and stannis is obviously not arriving at the wall this season. that'll happen like episode 7/8 next season at the earliest.

[Faraday]

although i'd kinda prefer "what's happening in the tv show in each episode" to be spoilered since they move stuff around. i know i've ready it and all but still.

[Faraday]

she needs an edric storm.

[Faraday]

What are they doing with the Bran storyline? If Sam and Gilly meet an "older gentleman" on the 8th episode, and said gentleman sends them to a specific fort--there really isn't much of a way to stretch out Bran and, in parallel, Stannis at the Wall. We are going to have a lot of

hodor!

trudging through the snow during early season 4, I suspect.

bran's part in that gets dropped for the moment and coldhands meets them later? so therefore we don't see summer help jon? idk that'd suck but :/

[Faraday]

Well, it seemed like Stannis basically had nothing to do all season if he didn't go to the Wall; same with Bran. But the revelation that they're going to add Melisandre stuff patches that hole a little.

stannis still has to free davos/name him hand, the leech scene where he asks for robb/balon/joffrey to die. (which should be powerful) and all that. mostly it won't happen b/c they won't have the battle for the wall in the last 5 episodes. jon snow isn't even back yet and probably can't be feasibly till at least episode 7 at the very earliest

[Faraday]

Also, Dany basically conquers Meereen at the end of Storm, right? So she basically just needs to conquer 2 more cities to finish her entire arc for this season and the next one?

yeah but i mean they can at least stretch that out or have her settled in mereen a bit by the end of s4 so it's not as bad

it wasn't a problem for them last season when they made up a bunch of shit

[Faraday]

yeah...that struck me as off.

[Faraday]

eh "family" --> she told ned's plans to the lannisters.

[Faraday]

the essay called her pure arryn?

[Faraday]

at any rate she told b/c she didn't want to leave king's landing as it'd mean she couldn't marry joffrey. that's it really. i don't really buy the essay's explanation for her? it seems like she just wanted to get her way - stretching it as honour...is a stretch.

[Faraday]

BLACKFISH

[Faraday]

the essay called her pure arryn?

Yeah, I thought you were saying "Sansa is not Tully because she betrayed her family; ergo, the idea that Sansa is Tully is incorrect."

well I mean I think it's a reason she's not totally tully. i don't really know how i'd classify her, tbf. but I don't think "the lannisters were here new family" was the reason she went and told them, it was b/c she wanted her fairytale marriage. it was more about getting what she wanted IMO than loyalt to joffrey. it's been a while since I've read her thoughts so I could be mistaken

i'm sure there are non idiotic tully's redff. i mean we've just had a bad run maybe.

[Faraday]

blackfish possibly being gay/refusing to marry would make that understandable. (or just the latter) since it's weird in westeros.

cat thinks highly of her uncle too, it's hardly a kiss of death.

[Faraday]

nice avatar

[Faraday]

iecerint you can

Spoiler:

expect gendry to be fine i'd think. i expect davos will end up rescuing him ala edric storm in the novels. sex is possible I guess, though.

[Faraday]

Willas and Garlan. Loras is the youngest son.

Yeah, they've kind of written themselves into a hole. They could have easily let Loras had a younger brother.


But.


Also Ramsay.

[Faraday]

Well the rainbow guard was a made up institution by renly so yeah.

It's more that if we are to assume loras joins the kingsguard eventually highgarden is left without a known heir which is just a bit weird. I mean they can get around it, really, but still.

[Faraday]

"If you think this story has a happy ending then you haven't been paying attention" ---> killed me. Bit "4th wallery" in a way but I still loved it.

[Faraday]

I don't know if I'd assume the rainbowguard had the same vows as the kingsguard. I mean it obviously had different rules since I don't think they'd allow women in the kingsguard (although i doubt there's a precedent)

I just think Loras joining the kingsguard makes far less sense as the heir - i don't think it'll add much drama, but I mean I guess it's not the most important detail.

[Faraday]

I guess. I found the idea he could compell the heir of highgarden to join the kingsguard kind of weak, though. Especially if it is literally their one and only heir.

[Faraday]

Being asked to join the Kingsguard is a great honor. Snubbing the Lannisters by saying you won't protect their son and the King of the realm is a fucking stupid move. Loras can't possibly decline without breaking the alliance.

"Highgarden must have an heir, here's another promising warrior" seems to be a fine way to sidestep the issue in show canon IMO.

[Faraday]

And loras

can

decline - solely because the lannisters cannot break the alliance.

[Faraday]

eh it seems like he has a lot of bleed over. i think a lot of his viewpoint has been changed view to conversations w/ people who have read the books/more knowledge.

[Faraday]

she's almost certain to survive imo. unless the only reason she has an heir is due to the fact they want to kill a mother and her unborn child, but the red wedding will be tragic enough as is.

[Faraday]

talisa is a lannister spy and cat will either cut her throat at the rw or hang her as lady stoneheart.

talisa being a lannister spy would be the worst thing. literally. roose and his betrayal is enough.

talisa to take jeyne's place or something.

(also she has a rather nice ass, it must be said)

[Faraday]

yeah I've seen it already + still don't think it'll happen as there are too many holes in it. if she's able to write in high valyrian + someone can read it why does she need to hide the letter in the first place? the random link re: the guy in essos is just....wat. it's just the lannister song. there's also the fact that it's just so fucking unlikely something like robb fallling in love + breaking his vows would ever happen because tywin planted a spy.

much better if he's an opportunist that can capitalise as opposed to some great omnipotent being.

[Faraday]

I am thinking/hoping it's a red herring. idk.

[Faraday]

why would we have a book only thread when this can be just for "people who read the books". the show and book can be discussed here, it means you can discuss the show as an adaption without spoiling future plotlines, basically.

[Faraday]

I don't think he's alive, don't see what plot purpose he'd really have.

[Faraday]

I think he's a fairly predictable character

and right

of course

he is. he's straightforward. he's kind of dumb. but it's just glorious. his whole single minded pursuit of what he wants is really fun to read.

[Faraday]

I liked him before ADWD, too! People jumped on the wagon when he drowned those virgins!

[Faraday]

I find Essos so underdeveloped compared to westeros. Like, the characters are much more flat and see more cliched and less interesting. (Especially the minor ones, I guess? Like you have so many characters with little time out west that are memorable). I know he has less time to develop it and that's probably part of the problem but it's part of what made me not enjoy the dany and I guess tyrion chapters when he got away from connington. (I really liked them up until then - the river boat and the illyrio scenes were enjoyable).

This is mostly just rambly stuff, though.

[Faraday]

VictarioGOAT

[Faraday]

loras has been shit for a while, tbf.

[Faraday]

also he doesn't look like a badass warrior

[Faraday]

also look he talks about embroidery. how GAY. becase you know him being gay is definitely what makes loras.

[Faraday]

The fashion bit was fine. Look at how the dresses and hairstyles are moving from Margaery and the Highgarden girls to the rest of King's Landing (not just Sansa, but Cersei's dresses and so many of the ladies we see at the wedding this week).

think it's a stretch to assume this is what the show was going for given the sometimes shallowness of the way it does things. the gay guy talking about embroidery was still silly. because you know, his character development has been shitty. he's a easy and likes embroidery. well whatever, he's no balon swann in the books anyway so as long as they don't ruin that.

and a tourney knight should look like they'd be able to hold a lance on horseback...I'm not convinced loras does that. I think the casting has been weird for him, consdiering how good it's been elsewere.

BRING BACK REAL GREGOR BTW

[Faraday]

I think the Tyrell v Martell strain will be weakened if both Mace and Oberyn get introduced at the same time. It'll be "Here's some whacky guys that hate each other", rather than the very nice, "Here's some 'allies' that were a bit worried about being stuck with, and in come some other 'allies' that hate each of us separately"

i'm not sure that mace is 100% neccessary early in the thing. randyll tarly maybe? loras maybe? but anyone from the martell alliance can hate oberyn.

[Faraday]

sansa's pretty dumb/naive at times, in fairness. it's more an indicator of how they're portrating him to the viewers. I think LOL GAY is how he's more likely to come across to the viewers. that's how more of my non book reader friends read it, anyway.

[Faraday]

PEdit: @Faraday: No, I wasn't assuming that's what the show was going for with Loras, just saying that Highgarden's fashion flows down to King's Landing. The embroidery bit itself was poor.

I LIKE EMBROIDERY SO THEREFORE I AM DRUNK!

[Faraday]

a) could happen! Depends on what they want to do with him once Tywin goes to the bathroom.

also he's not marrying cersei SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Faraday]

pretty sure charles dance can do w/e the fuck he wants though

[Faraday]

Tierce, no!! That annoys me so much. They should pronounce it the same unless they're not from Westeros, at the very last.

different dialects? well people in general pronounce words differently. it's not the biggest stretch. ._________. kinda

[Faraday]

I mean no one else in the world can apparently say the word "horse" right, despite the fact we all speak english ffs

[Faraday]

IT'S DUCKSAUCE

[Faraday]

/implying that this guy, unlike loras, clearly looks like a badass warrior

he seems to be vaguely charismatic at least

[Faraday]

+ this guy's already step up from the book character. i'm sure he'll get more annoying, though.

[Faraday]

she was just horny

[Faraday]

well that happened

[Faraday]

._.

[Faraday]

think ending on the dany scene will be anticlimactic personally and lady stoneheart would make a much better season ending to grip the viewers. also it wraps up the brotherhood arc for this season nicely and gives beric's storyline some completion

[Faraday]

kingsmoot seems likely at the very least

[Faraday]

lmao yeah it owned

[Faraday]

he said the ending will be bittersweet before a few times. you can probably expect someone like arya to die anyway

[Faraday]

there'll be some affc stuff in season 4? so they can easily have some of that for some of the plots

[Faraday]

Seems about right, although they might need to bring in some parts of winds for cliffhangers and whatnot in certain places.

[Faraday]

yes. that's not evidence of anything.

[Faraday]

s1, too. unless you're gonna argue there's a pattern of him writing s1+s3 "meh" eps and s2+4 cool ones. eh it does fit the timing of joffrey dying tbf

[Faraday]

yeah not really sure who i had in mind but this isn't bad.

[Faraday]

plz plz plz plz plz get conan stevens back as the mountain or this could be awful though

[Faraday]

Well, if by "meh" you mean that it doesn't have a game changer like RW, maybe.

no that's not at all what I meant? I found his episode in S3 one of the weakest, and his in S1 had some things I didn't like too. nothing to do with the characterisation I guess, so it's possible he just got kind of "lull" episodes.

[Faraday]

i too want her to reveal the soft interior of the hound and for them to gently make love in the summer isles, for sandor may be ugly on the outside but on the inside he is truly beautiful and sansa realises it. he can be her protector and lover all rolled up in to one. oh the butterflies. i love my SanSan

[Faraday]

my favourite SanSan moment was when he threatened to kill her.

[Faraday]

it was right then i went "woah they could have beautiful babies"

[Faraday]

Idk if you're trolling, but I actually loved that moment between them.

i think it's kind of a fucked up pairing, yeah.

[Faraday]

Lso, Zoraster said it first, but we do actually get a lesbian relationship in the book with Cersei but it's a pretty strange thing where she is emulating being a man or something strange.

dany gets fingered by her handmaiden too

iirc it's never implied summer islanders are all bi or anything, just that taena and her husband. they do regard prostitutes as respectable, though!

[Faraday]

you liked the part where he threatened to kill her? wtf? you mean as a plot point or in terms of their relationship.

[Faraday]

Marillion?

[Faraday]

Oh, well it is <_<

[Faraday]

In the book it's a different bard that's fucked up in GOT.

[Faraday]

So I was just googling stuff and apparently http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1xmaX0jp3Ig/U ... 0jpqmh.jpg this guy was cast as THE MOUNTAIN accoding to winter is coming. I've no idea if it's true.


Also daario was recast. Which is ew as recastings are ew, in general.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/05/game-o ... umors.html

huh they recast tommen if this is true, too.

[Faraday]

which part are you talking about?

[Faraday]

mark gatiss is

Spoiler:

Tycho Nestoris. If you don't recognise the name he's the dorky but kinda cool bravosii banker in Dance.

[Faraday]

Yeah, I'd definitely disagree with that. (I thought Dragon Reborn/Shadow Rising/Fires of Heaven was STRONG throughout) and probably better than anything Sanderson has done. The Gathering Storm is his strongest Wheel of Time book, at any rate.

I do think the first mistborn novel is very good, and probably close. It is by far, the stand out to me, though. He's certainly improving a lot though, considering I thought Elantris was actually kind of...sucky? Had some really cool ideas but pulled them off a little cliched and miserably.

[Faraday]

I fucking LOVED the first book of the stormlight archive, though. I lost my hardback copy though Or maybe it's back in Ireland, but I don't think so.

Wheel of Time is like my first fantasy love so it's possible I'm overrating it (Although I'd take stuff like The Lies of Locke Lamora over it now, I think. Speaking of~ New Gentleman bastards book in October I believe)

[Faraday]

Next book.

But seruously AFFC might be my least favourite too, there's enough awesome stuff in it though I think?

Spoiler:

Every Arya chapter is great.
Sansa's POV in the eyrie is actually really strong -- finding out LF's plans and stuff
VICTARION is an GOAT POV + The Iron Islands chapters are good, love the kingsmoot.
Vengeance.Justice.Fire and Blood. Areo and Arianne are pretty fucking dull though. We also get parody level Darkstar which is so bad it's good.
Cersei has shitty POV's LOL SHE IS SO PARANOID XD TYRION IS COMING. Fuck off.
Jaime's an awesome POv character
Brienne starts out kinda "dull" then becomes more and more awesome as her POV goes on.
Sam has a fat pink mast :/
The epilogue with "Pate" is also kind of an OH SHIT moment.

There's also some good writing (Arys Oakenhart's chapter is very well done imo)

It's probably the weakest, although I'm not sure I'd say it's not better than Clash of Kings? Cersei POV's did get very tiring, though.

[Faraday]

Dany's in ADwD is better than Victarion's PoV in AFfC and Areo Hotah's PoV in AFfC combined.

ha, i like the way you didn't try to imply dany's dance chapters are better than victarion's dance chapters, though. idany has what, 10? 11 chapters or more in dance alone. does areo hotah get more than 1 chapter in feast? even if areo is dull as ditchwater (which he is) he's pretty easy to get around disliking. p.s. victarion in ARMOUR killing some tyrell pussy > dany's dance stuff

asha has ONE pov chapter in affc and I don't actually remember it but i'm assuming it can't be that bad since her dance stuff was pretty alright

[Faraday]

yeah her arc is pretty strong imo

[Faraday]

Storyline and character are different things though. Just because a POV has interesting parts in it doesn't make her character itself particularly compelling. Joffrey was interesting, the Hound interesting, Cersei interesting. All of those built interesting POV chapters for Sansa. But her actual character? In other words, the person she was? She became an interesting character outside of her interactions with others when her naivety was shattered once, twice, etc.

dany's like the posterchild for this in book 1 imo (and possibly all the time)

[Faraday]

Although, I guess I am unlike most people (maybe, idk) in the sense that I do not really rate characters by how much I'd like them as people. I read as a writer, and it kind of shows in how I enjoy stories, I guess.

i don't think that's unique to you, i'd not want to go for drinks with a murdering viking like victarion, or littlefinger, or roose bolton. but I think they're all good reads and add to the story as characters!

i mean tbh for me there was never really a pov i saw that went OH GOD NOT THIS, I know a lot of people felt like this with bran but I found most of his chapters fine? even sansa who I wasn't particularly enthralled with had enough stuff going on that her chapters were fine.

[Faraday]

Season 4 clip/gif

Spoiler:

SAY HER NAME.

[Faraday]

oberyn looks pretty awesome from the snippits so far. good.

[Faraday]

eh they do film extra scenes anyway (lysa/littlefinger last season) but yeah they shouldn't drop it wtf

[Faraday]

I thought they could have cut a little from the start of that episode to add to the battle. No Mance...was kinda weird? I mean I don't like the casting....but eh?


Tormund was badass as fuck, though.

[Faraday]

he's just a director anyway, not like he's actually involved in the writing. (can we get neil marsall for every episode? plz?)

[Faraday]

plz be lying (.__.)

[Faraday]

Part of it for me is I really like Fairley as an actor and think she could do really good as Stoneheart. I don't think she's particularly important, per se, but I do think it's an awesome way to have ended the last season. Still, I'm more concerned by the lack of Greyjoys!

[Faraday]

Well they're probably cutting the greyjoys too, or minimising their roles which is more sad as they're actually interesting unlike Arianne anyway

[Faraday]

yeah, agreed, i don't let it bother me b/c w.e it's an adaption and i kinda expected it to happen eventually