Space Monkey Mafia: GAME OVER!

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Post Post #525  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:52 pm

What's to be confused about? I understand perfectly. If you're part of the uninformed majority and you look back at yetserday, you should understand, too.
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Post Post #526  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:52 pm

Hmmm... PJ, what do you think of yesterday's CES lynch?
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Post Post #527  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:41 pm

Glork wrote:What's to be confused about? I understand perfectly. If you're part of the uninformed majority and you look back at yetserday, you should understand, too.


I'm apparently uninformed, that's for sure. Otherwise I might understand why you are implying that yesterday somehow makes perfect sense. I guess the whole "Thok led a mislynch on CES" and then calling it "excellent" confuses me.

As for yesterday's lynch, it looks like a mislynch to me, in a town which I am noticing is prone to bandwagoning. Last I checked, we're supposed to be lynching gorilla-scum. Are you trying to imply that gorillas are not scum, and that space monkeys are?
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Post Post #528  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:45 pm

Are you a Gorilla or a Space Monkey?
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Post Post #529  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:11 pm

<--has also figured it out
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Post Post #530  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:11 pm

You know what? This game makes no sense to me. I will probably regret doing this later, and I'll probably be the butt end of many jokes for do so, but this game has me confused enough that I don't much care. The nightkills (or lack thereof) make no sense, the lynches make no sense, and everything about yesterday and the start of today makes no sense. I've reread the flavor of the game, I've reread my role, and I've reread the game. All I can hope for is that Stoofer has an extremely messed up mind and is completely screwing with me, but more likely I will just be lynched immediately and feel stupid about it afterwards.

I am a Gorilla Soldier. My role explicitly states that I am scum, which is making me want to delete this post as I'm writing it. I was somehow separated from the Gorillas, have become subsequently lost, and I have no ammunition, and I have been waiting for the Gorillas to find me for four nights. I have no night choices whatsoever. I have asked Stoofer quite a few questions about my role, and he has refused to answer any of them.

If I am indeed scum, then whoever is in the scum group has got to be completely stupid. I am getting the feeling that both MBL and Zindaras had the exact same role as I do, which is why they were nightkilled - because the scum didn't know they were scum. And this is despite the fact that It became pretty obvious to me that Zindaras very likely had my role when he started speculating with me about Traitor roles.

And then he was killed, even though any self-respecting scum group should have tried to "find him". I tried to leave an obvious hint at the start of yesterday:

PJ, Post 487 wrote:I'm a bit lost in terms of scum groups, but I don't mind a Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum. I still haven't forgotten about Señor Glork, however.


I could not think of any other way to get across that it appeared (and still appears) that I am part of a scum group, and that I am lost, and hence needed to be found. If the gorillas are scum as my role leads me to believe, then they are clearly paying no attention and deserve and lose anyways, since it appears to me that the traitor roles have somehow turned into constant nightkill targets.

Unvote: Glork.

The most I can make of this is that the Space Monkeys are actually the informed minority, and that Gorillas are in fact the uninformed majority, because I am sure as heck uninformed, and if the scum have had four nights to search for me (and seemingly MBL and Zindaras) and still haven't successfully done so even though I have been talking about traitors for two straight days and leaving a blatant hint yesterday, it might be because there is no "group of Gorillas" searching for anybody.
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Post Post #531  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:21 pm

Of course, even if Gorillas are the uninformed majority, Stoofer's flavor makes absolutely no sense. For example:

Stoofer wrote:You are the surviving crew of the SS Simian. You are all that stand between the Gorillas and Galactic domination. You must make a last, desperate stand on the Ship’s bridge, to save the Galaxy. Although you face only a small number of the Gorillas, they are armed and well organised, while you have no weapons. The only way to defeat them is to use your combined strength to force them into the airlock one at a time. That would be hard enough at the best of times. But to make matters worse, the fog of battle means you cannot even see clearly who is a Space Monkey and who is Gorilla.


1.) This explicitly says there is a "small number" of Gorillas
2.) This explicitly says that the Gorillas "are organized" (which is definitely not true)
3.) This explicitly says that Space Monkeys do not have weapons (which goes against an informed minority of Space Monkeys)
4.) This explicity says that the only way Space Monkeys can kill Gorillas are to force them out of the airlock (which also makes no sense, since two Gorillas have already been nightkilled)

Either way I look at it, Stoofer is lying in terms of flavor. So meh.
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Post Post #532  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:23 pm

chamber wrote:roflmao he jsut claimed scum


Try posting in games you're "playing in", Chamber. Like Old Maid. I have deleted chamber's intrusive post - Stoofer
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Post Post #533  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:58 pm

Thok wrote:Et tu, Glork? I believe I know where you're coming from, and CES is a better lynch.
Glork wrote:Unvote, Vote: CES


I get it.





It seems rather apparent to me that the Space Monkeys are scum, and that Gorillas are the town. Unfortunately, I 'm guessingthat the Space Monkeys knew this, so "figuring it out" isn't nearly a viable method of confirming anybody.

I've re-read the game a couple of times overnight, and I came to the conclusion that the scums would want to prevent people from figuring things out. I think that's why Zindaras was killed. (As you mentioned, PJ, he started talking about Traitors, and I think Monkeys wanted to prevent that kind of discussion.) I had actually made a case against you, PJ, based on Post 414 The post in which I mentioned SpaceMonkey-Scum and Gorilla-Town was actually pure coincidence, but overnight, when I re-read your response, I wondered why you zoomed in on that sentence and shot it down so quickly. Also, the way you so actively pursued Bird -> inHim -> Glork, it seemed to me that you wanted to just keep the lynches rolling, planting false speculation and turning people away from other discussion, hoping to get through as many days as possible before people figured things out.
However, your claim seems to check out well enough for me for now.

Masterchief is the other person on my short list. I don't like his play at all yesterday (including his "yay nightkills" comment at the start of D3)... so I think that's a pretty good place to start looking. Posts like 441, 472, and 477 indicate to me that he just wanted the inHim lynch to go through. Vote: Masterchief

I'm uncertain of a lot of my earlier suspicions; I certainly don't think we have *no* information to go on, but I found myself having trouble sifting through what I thought was Gorilla 'Scum' behavior and what might be Space Monkey behavior. I wonder if the MBL-wagon may have been telling in some way or another (though unfortunately, that probably points to me moreso than anybody else).

There's one other thing that I find a bit alarming about the fact that Space Monkeys are the scumbags: SpeedyKQ was the only death N1, as a Space Monkey Doctor. This seems to indicate the the presence of multiple killers/groups. Maybe there really is a rogue faction of Gorillas trying to kill everyone else. Maybe there's just an SK of some kind. I have no idea. But we had one SM killed Night One, and we've had at most one death each night. I don't know if we can figure this out yet.


Now, part of me wants to discuss how we should go about hunting for Space Monkeys by examining how they might have behaved knowing that the town was completely ass-backwards. Like I said, I would've expected the SMs to want to make it as far as possible before the town figured things out. I also think that at least one of the SMs may have been tactically lurking. I think that today, we should probably force some other players out of the woodwork. Poke around at the people who didn't contribute, or those who feigned contribution, but let all of us run around pointing fingers at each other and pushing Gorilla-Lynches.
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Post Post #534  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:15 pm

Oh, thank goodness.

As for Post 414, it should be pretty obvious. I "knew" that the reason "scum" continually kept getting nightkilled was because they were Traitors, and the scum group kept targeting them. Of course I shot you down: if you were part of the "gorilla scum group" and really thought I was scum, you would have tried to recruit me by that time. Since no such thing happened, I figured you were "town" (i.e. a Space Monkey), hence somebody who needed to die... if I could lynch you, all the better. I was going to try to shoot you down no matter what you said.

That said, yes: I was trying to keep the lynches rolling from Bird -> InHim -> Glork. Because I thought I was "scum", and I was sure you were a Space Monkey by that time.
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Post Post #535  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:27 pm

And I have a feeling it is going to be insanely difficult at this point to determine who they Space Monkeys are, at least with the wagons from the previous days (although I admit Masterchief seems like a good start, remember D3). If all the townspeople were told they were scum, they were probably acting like scum. Furthermore, if all the townspeople were scum, they were probably trying to spread misinformation themselves (like I am thinking both myself and Zindaras did).

At least this is helping to explain the fact that everybody is so bandwagony - because they are just trying to get days as over as soon as possible so that they might be "found" by their scum group at night.

I guess I can try to give this game an "honest" reread. Stoofer is seriously messed up.
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Post Post #536  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:37 pm

Mr Stoofer wrote:The Space Monkeys all have the following win condition:
You win when the all Gorillas have been killed and the SS Simian is safe once again.
bump

also, even though the monkeys could be given our pm, its clear stoofer has the same pm as me

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Post Post #537  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:47 pm

Since it will be somewhat helpful, I should mention that I'm a Gorilla Cop (obviously that's not my true flavor).

I am confirmed sane (CES was Bogre's night 1 target, my other targets are all Gorillas). So I know of four confirmed gorillas (me and my three gorilla night choices), assuming we don't have issues with godfathers/millers whatever craziness you want to call them. I will release as many or as few of my night choices as desired.

I suspect that the SpeedyKQ nightkill was specfically part of the way the set up was designed.

For what it's worth, I have thought a little about what would be potential gorilla/Space Monkey tells; I believe that confusion about what was actually happening is likely a Gorilla tell.
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Post Post #538  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:13 am

Vote Count

Masterchief: 1 (Glork)

It will take 7 of you to push someone out of the airlock.

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Post Post #539  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:02 am

Great to know I'm not a scum that gorillas don't like to find. I dropped two hints in order for Gorillas to find me:

The first hint day 1:
dahen #160 wrote:And I'm here! *waves*


Right after night 2 (Notice the period. I was sad I wasn't found):
dahen #316 wrote:Sorry, didn't find. this thread until now.

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Post Post #540  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:27 pm

Alive List wrote:dahen
Fritzler
Glork
klebian
Masterchief replacing Twomz
Nightson
petroleumjelly replacing ibaesha
Phoebus
PookytheMagicalBear
Save the Dragons
Thok replacing Bogre
Twito


To be completely frank, I would not be opposed to a revealing of investigations from Thok if 2 (possibly 3) of his investigations do not cross over with the 4 people I have high-lighted in red, who I believe to be Gorillas. I believe dahen's crumb, Thok looks about as town (or scum, whatever) as you can get, and Glork's suspicions from yesterday seem reasonable with his subsequent explanation today (concerning my own Post 414, in particular).

Since the day just started, however, I would still say that Thok should hold off his investigations until later, if he chooses to reveal them. Not to be arrogant, but I'm assuming Thok has investigated at least one of myself or Glork by this time, so if all he is going to add is one person, I would rather him keep it to himself for the time being.

If we can get the group narrowed down to 6 people I can see as Space Monkeys, this game ought to be a breeze.
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Post Post #541  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:01 pm

Glork wrote:
Thok wrote:Et tu, Glork? I believe I know where you're coming from, and CES is a better lynch.
Glork wrote:Unvote, Vote: CES


I get it.





It seems rather apparent to me that the Space Monkeys are scum, and that Gorillas are the town. Unfortunately, I 'm guessingthat the Space Monkeys knew this, so "figuring it out" isn't nearly a viable method of confirming anybody.

I've re-read the game a couple of times overnight, and I came to the conclusion that the scums would want to prevent people from figuring things out. I think that's why Zindaras was killed. (As you mentioned, PJ, he started talking about Traitors, and I think Monkeys wanted to prevent that kind of discussion.) I had actually made a case against you, PJ, based on Post 414 The post in which I mentioned SpaceMonkey-Scum and Gorilla-Town was actually pure coincidence, but overnight, when I re-read your response, I wondered why you zoomed in on that sentence and shot it down so quickly. Also, the way you so actively pursued Bird -> inHim -> Glork, it seemed to me that you wanted to just keep the lynches rolling, planting false speculation and turning people away from other discussion, hoping to get through as many days as possible before people figured things out.
However, your claim seems to check out well enough for me for now.

Masterchief is the other person on my short list. I don't like his play at all yesterday (including his "yay nightkills" comment at the start of D3)... so I think that's a pretty good place to start looking. Posts like 441, 472, and 477 indicate to me that he just wanted the inHim lynch to go through. Vote: Masterchief

I'm uncertain of a lot of my earlier suspicions; I certainly don't think we have *no* information to go on, but I found myself having trouble sifting through what I thought was Gorilla 'Scum' behavior and what might be Space Monkey behavior. I wonder if the MBL-wagon may have been telling in some way or another (though unfortunately, that probably points to me moreso than anybody else).

There's one other thing that I find a bit alarming about the fact that Space Monkeys are the scumbags: SpeedyKQ was the only death N1, as a Space Monkey Doctor. This seems to indicate the the presence of multiple killers/groups. Maybe there really is a rogue faction of Gorillas trying to kill everyone else. Maybe there's just an SK of some kind. I have no idea. But we had one SM killed Night One, and we've had at most one death each night. I don't know if we can figure this out yet.


Now, part of me wants to discuss how we should go about hunting for Space Monkeys by examining how they might have behaved knowing that the town was completely ass-backwards. Like I said, I would've expected the SMs to want to make it as far as possible before the town figured things out. I also think that at least one of the SMs may have been tactically lurking. I think that today, we should probably force some other players out of the woodwork. Poke around at the people who didn't contribute, or those who feigned contribution, but let all of us run around pointing fingers at each other and pushing Gorilla-Lynches.


Ok. Post 449(not 1) as for that I am constantly asking what people's votes are at. I also mostly ask about the people who are close to a lynch.

Post 472: If he wasn't even going to try, then he is no use to the town, townie or not.

Post 477: ..... I was simply asking because almost everyone wanted him dead. So I just asked to find out so people would quit griping.
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Post Post #542  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Dang. And to think I was happy when CES turned up monkey, because I was the only one not wanting to lynch him.
Well, I'm a soldier as well. Unfortunately, unlike dahen, I HAVEN'T been dropping hints throughout the game, because I don't consider myself a likley nightkill, and I also didn't think the gorillas knew that they were looking for someone, so I didn't think there's much one can do to drop hints when the person you're dropping them for doesn't have a clue...
I do think thok should give his results later in the day, because it seems like he's a likely nightkill for tonight. PJ is obviously confirmed, since he was first to claim, and... well, never mind, my thinking mirrors PJ and his is better worded.

Before I dismiss this thought from my mind, inhim couldn't have ACTUALLY been an unroleblocker, could he have? kthx.

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Post Post #543  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:06 pm

You people do realize that claiming Gorilla Soldier tells everybody you are claiming vanilla? You are practically throwing scum information at this point, as if they didn't already have an advantage for most of the game.

klebian wrote:Well, I'm a soldier as well. Unfortunately, unlike dahen, I HAVEN'T been dropping hints throughout the game, because I don't consider myself a likley nightkill, and I also didn't think the gorillas knew that they were looking for someone, so I didn't think there's much one can do to drop hints when the person you're dropping them for doesn't have a clue...


Interesting. Klebian, please clarify something for me. You say you have a Traitor role, but you also say you didn't think the scum were looking for you. Question:

How did you suppose to ever be reunited with your Gorilla Group if they weren't looking for you?

klebian wrote:PJ is obviously confirmed, since he was first to claim...


Although I will not dispute that I am a Gorilla, that's a dangerous attitude. It is more than possible that the scum were given the Gorilla Soldier role PM (if they are all uniform).

I've been giving the possibility of Godfathers/Millers a thinking, and have come to the conclusion that if we're dealing with that sort of role, Stoofer has really screwed us. I would certainly think the advantage of having all the townspeople thinking they were scum (and thus wanting to lynch faster, even perhaps forcing townspeople to fake-claim [InHim's claim still looks fake to me]) waiting to be recruited was huge enough for him to forego using Cop-immunity.

It does not even appear that we are told the nature of dead roles, and I am starting to wonder if Thok was on the right track for the N1 kill - it may have been "prearranged" simply to confirm to the Gorillas that they are indeed, scum, and that they began the game with the "advantage" of having killed the Doctor!

Of course, if there is a Space Monkey Godfather, I would certainly hope they would be revealed as a "Space Monkey Godfather". But there lies the problem: if the point of the set-up is to continually make the Gorillas think they were scum, Stoofer would not ever put down "Space Monkey Godfather" or "Space Monkey Goon" and so on, because that would give it away. And since I think it would be drastically unfair to not reveal to the town when/if they have killed the Godfather, that leads me to believe the chances of such a role in this game particularly unlikely.
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Post Post #544  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:47 pm

Hunh. I was changing the colors in my voting records (first time I've had to do that) and did notice the Day Three votes for CES. Day Three was so short, in fact, I will just quote the whole thing.

Day Three Votes wrote:Thok votes Cogito Ergo Sum (1)
PetroleumJelly votes Cogito Ergo Sum (2)
Glork votes PetroleumJelly (1)
Glork FoS: Masterchief (I)
Glork unvotes PetroleumJelly (0) and votes Cogito Ergo Sum (3)
Dahen votes Cogito Ergo Sum (4)
Save the Dragons votes Cogito Ergo Sum (5)
Twito votes Masterchief (1)
Masterchief votes Twito (1)
PookytheMagicalBear votes Cogito Ergo Sum (6)
Klebian FoS: dahen (I) and FoS: Glork (I) and FoS: StD (I)
Fritzler votes Cogito Ergo Sum (7) LYNCH


Glork only gets orange because I am more sure that Thok and Dahen are Gorillas than he is. After skimming his posts, I could definitely see him acting similarly to his play this game if he were actually a Space Monkey. He's prolly a Gorilla, but I'm more confident of those in red.

It is unfortunate that yesterday was so incredibly short, since that was (other than today) the turning point in the game, and that's when the Space Monkeys were probably panicking that one of their own Space Monkeys was being run up. I would think the scum would consider busing after noting that all four of the first voters on CES are people I think to be Gorillas (Thok, PJ, Glork, Dahen was the order).

Notably, I had called StD obviously town earlier, simply because he seemed to be fingering Gorillas left and right. That's taking a double-meaning for me now. His "Bird + InHim > 0 Scum" post comes the fastest to my mind, in that he may have known both of them would come up Gorillas, hence "scum", which would make him look better so long as the town was left in the dark about the nature of the game. I would think he would be smart enough to distance after watching four Gorillas straight vote for CES if he were a Space Monkey. Of course, I would expect him to bandwagon even if he is a Gorilla. *sigh* This whole scum-town mechanic is really screwing with me.

The Masterchief/Twito thing may have been intended as a diversion, but... hrm. I haven't decided.

Klebian, in addition to my earlier question, could you please explain your hesitation on hammering CES in more detail and rampant FoS's (instead of a vote on somebody else)?
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Post Post #545  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:51 pm

petroleumjelly wrote:Of course, if there is a Space Monkey Godfather, I would certainly hope they would be revealed as a "Space Monkey Godfather". But there lies the problem: if the point of the set-up is to continually make the Gorillas think they were scum, Stoofer would not ever put down "Space Monkey Godfather" or "Space Monkey Goon" and so on, because that would give it away. And since I think it would be drastically unfair to not reveal to the town when/if they have killed the Godfather, that leads me to believe the chances of such a role in this game particularly unlikely.
The other thing that worries me is the fact that dead Gorillas have only been revealed as "Gorilla." We don't know if any power are dead or not; on the other hand, neither to the scums. This game puts us in a very unique position in that alignments are revealed, but actual roles are not necessarily made public.
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Post Post #546  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:59 pm

I don't consider that an advantage (if you are trying to imply that, although you have specifically said "unique"). See: Verbose Mafia. Unrevealed town roles do not make me a happy camper, and if anything, I think it only increases the chances that scum will be able to get away with a fake claim (specifically because with four dead Gorillas and none of them claiming their actual role, it is a distinct possibility we have lost a power role or more, which in turn makes it more likely they will not be counter-claimed).
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Post Post #547  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:34 pm

I don't consider it an advantage either. If you'll notice, I said that it worries me.
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Post Post #548  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:37 pm

For what it's worth, I know enough about power roles from the structure of my role that I believe I can catch a fake claim. In addition, if I am ever killed and come up gorilla, you should assume all gorillas are coming up gorilla.
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Post Post #549  (ISO)  » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:58 am

All quotes without name are pj's.

petroleumjelly wrote:
klebian wrote:Well, I'm a soldier as well. Unfortunately, unlike dahen, I HAVEN'T been dropping hints throughout the game, because I don't consider myself a likley nightkill, and I also didn't think the gorillas knew that they were looking for someone, so I didn't think there's much one can do to drop hints when the person you're dropping them for doesn't have a clue...


Interesting. Klebian, please clarify something for me. You say you have a Traitor role, but you also say you didn't think the scum were looking for you. Question:

How did you suppose to ever be reunited with your Gorilla Group if they weren't looking for you?

I was under the impression that what my PM meant was that I would get 'found' if my group attempted to kill me. I didn't realize that there was actual 'hunting' for gorillas "going on". That may just be inexperience; I am not familiar with traitor roles and I guess I just assumed incorrectly. That's why I said in my quoted post 'I don't consider myself a likley nightkill'. This is just me being stupid.


klebian wrote:PJ is obviously confirmed, since he was first to claim...


Although I will not dispute that I am a Gorilla, that's a dangerous attitude. It is more than possible that the scum were given the Gorilla Soldier role PM (if they are all uniform).

I don't know if they're all uniform; the way you described your role is the same as my PM. I considered this, however I dismissed it because I think that the scum have earned enough of an advantage with 3 days of town confusion. Similar to your logic about godfathers/millers, I do not think that the mod would give the scum a generic townie PM coupled with the entire town thinking they are the scum.

I've been giving the possibility of Godfathers/Millers a thinking, and have come to the conclusion that if we're dealing with that sort of role, Stoofer has really screwed us. I would certainly think the advantage of having all the townspeople thinking they were scum (and thus wanting to lynch faster, even perhaps forcing townspeople to fake-claim [InHim's claim still looks fake to me]) waiting to be recruited was huge enough for him to forego using Cop-immunity.

It does not even appear that we are told the nature of dead roles, and I am starting to wonder if Thok was on the right track for the N1 kill - it may have been "prearranged" simply to confirm to the Gorillas that they are indeed, scum, and that they began the game with the "advantage" of having killed the Doctor!

Of course, if there is a Space Monkey Godfather, I would certainly hope they would be revealed as a "Space Monkey Godfather". But there lies the problem: if the point of the set-up is to continually make the Gorillas think they were scum, Stoofer would not ever put down "Space Monkey Godfather" or "Space Monkey Goon" and so on, because that would give it away. And since I think it would be drastically unfair to not reveal to the town when/if they have killed the Godfather, that leads me to believe the chances of such a role in this game particularly unlikely.

I agree with your first paragraph. Unless the scum are around 3 in number (I guess not counting SpeedyKQ [which, by the way, I must mention; it's kinda unfortunate if the only reason he died night 1 was to throw town off track]), it's quite improbable that stoofer would load the scum up with advantage upon advantage. Thok seems correct; I see that all we were told about CES's role was that he was a space monkey, and all the gorillas have all been gorillas.


Notably, I had called StD obviously town earlier, simply because he seemed to be fingering Gorillas left and right. That's taking a double-meaning for me now. His "Bird + InHim > 0 Scum" post comes the fastest to my mind, in that he may have known both of them would come up Gorillas, hence "scum", which would make him look better so long as the town was left in the dark about the nature of the game. I would think he would be smart enough to distance after watching four Gorillas straight vote for CES if he were a Space Monkey. Of course, I would expect him to bandwagon even if he is a Gorilla. *sigh* This whole scum-town mechanic is really screwing with me.

This seems like a very interesting point. It's possible that StD didn't think through all consequences that would result when the setup was found out. That quote in fact is very strong, and it seems that you have made a very strong point against StD.

Glork only gets orange because I am more sure that Thok and Dahen are Gorillas than he is. After skimming his posts, I could definitely see him acting similarly to his play this game if he were actually a Space Monkey. He's prolly a Gorilla, but I'm more confident of those in red.

PJ, I reread the last few pages, and I feel you're being a bit to naiive about Glork. It's interesting that you guys have been butting heads for the past 2.5 days, and today after your claim, he accepts your claim, agrees that monkeys are scum, and now you're fairly convinced he's town. I believe that a space monkey could've easily made 533 as a gorilla. At this point, I think a smart monkey would've seen that their 'cover' for the game was blown, and decided to reveal the truth. Obviously, others were discovering it as well, so it's quite possible that glork made good use of the perfect opportunity to become buddies with one of the most influential town members. Not much of his post is written from a point of view that I would consider solely gorilla, and I as well am feeling that glork is not as confirmed as we may think.

Klebian, in addition to my earlier question, could you please explain your hesitation on hammering CES in more detail and rampant FoS's (instead of a vote on somebody else)?

As you pointed out in this same post, day 3 was much, MUCH too short. I felt that thok made a great post to start a wagon, and every just jumped on soon after that. My reasons are in post 508. I didn't think the arguement against CES was strong enough to warrant such a fast wagon. It should be noted that fritz and pooky have been wagoning and posting no content just as much as CES, which I pointed out. And I should also say that the case against CES was initially from glork. Thok said "I believe lynching him is in the interest of the majority of us. " and everyone else bandwagoned. I skimmed through the thread, and the only arguement against CES was (around post 390) that he was bandwagoning a lot, posting mainly 1 line posts, and that he needed a real explanation for this even though that's something he does all the time. I didn't think this was a case that warranted a lynch, or at least, not such a quick lynch. I was willing to hammer, but I wanted a stronger case presented, or at least some time of discussion.
To answer the second part, the main thing is that you can't vote 3 people. I was not happy with the CES wagon. A wagon is fine, but there needs to be a solid basis, and I was not seeing the basis in CES's wagon. I fosed the people who I thought were bandwagoning recklessly on someone who was being lynched for bandwagoning recklessly.



In other events, I'm not understanting this:
dahen, 521 wrote:Good morning Thok. Did it go as planned?

Also, we had no night kill tonight, but I don't know if that's very much to be happy about. We have only had gorillas killed that way anyway.

I smell some funny bananas.

Did what go as planned? As far as I can see, dahen and thok are not connected in any way, and thus, there should not be anything that dahen and thok are discussing that we don't know. I guess by this point dahen had figured the setup out, although he didn't have any other information that other people (pj, me, other soldiers) didn't. This post needs explanation.

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