Space Monkey Mafia: GAME OVER!

[klebian]

I'm assuming you meant space monkeys. I'd estimate 5 total, so around 4 monkeys left. However, maybe they were put at enough of an advantage to make a smaller scumteam? So it's possible that there are just 3 left, not 4. I guess you're right.

MOD: 5 to lynch is correct? Or is it 4 to lynch?

[klebian]

I meant, is it 6 to lynch?

[Twito]

I'm assuming you meant space monkeys.

Yeap. Can't we just call them scum and town would make it so much easier as it seems we only have one scumgroup, the space monkeys.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Save The Dragons: 1 (Thok)

And unless anyone can persuade me otherwise, it is indeed 6 to lynch.

[Glork]

Need to be off to class very soon, but

FoS: Glork

. This might turn into a vote very soon. The entire Masterchief scenario yesterday (with Glork pushing for it constantly after trying to make

me

look worse for "rolling lynches along") played on my mind while the game was waiting in night.

Um... I think you misunderstand the "suspicious for rolling lynches along" argument I was going to make yesterday. That was in reference to Days 1-3 when I felt that Space Monkeys would have wanted to do so in order to keep the town from discussing and possibly figure things out. My case was based on the way you pursued Bird/inHim/Glork, not from anything you did post-revelation (especially considering you didn't actually figure things out until we were in D4). If you think you can make a legitimate parallel between pre-revelation behavior and post-revelation behavior, I'm interested to hear it. But I'm not really sure where you're coming from with that.


Anyway, I still like my

Vote: Nightson

, but I could definitely see StD as a Space Monkey, as I indicated yesterday.

[Save The Dragons]

I'll give you a lap dance if you make it one to lynch.

Wait a minute...that doesn't seem to help me at all...

I still want an answer from PJ.

And I will look over the thread sometime cuz I'm at a loss for ideas, although I'm probably going to pick someone who's name is not in red on the monkey list of doom.

[AndrewS]

Well, judging from the fact that the space monkeys have roles in addition to the scumgroup(we saw a monkey doctor), I can guess that there is at most 3 more monkeys in our midst (2 have already been killed, and anything more than 5 in an 18 player game with additional power roles would be unbalanced).

[Thok]

I'm trying to decide if I can deduce anything from the choice of SV for the nightkill.

I could support a Nightson or Twito wagon in place of an STD wagon; those three are the people I feel don't have a good argument for being Gorilla.

[petroleumjelly]

I still want an answer from PJ.

I don't answer to monkeys.

Vote: Glork

. I smell monkey dung all over him. He didn't even bother to really consider not lynching MasterChief yesterday, but instead stupidly pushed "lynch Masterchief as soon as possible" agenda without pondering alternatives to MC's play. I've seen him play similarly as scum, especially when it comes to picking on the worst players who are pretty much

bound

screw up, and then to harp on them

when

they screw up to push an eventual lynch.

Also, Glork indicated that he "got it" on D3 of the game, and by that time, I seriously doubt many people would have seriously "got" that Space Monkeys were scum at that point in the game, unless they had more info than the average player (i.e. Thok).

Also, Thok, there is plenty to deduce from the SpectrumVoid nightkill.

One theory is that the Space Monkeys tried to kill you N4 (notice the lack of a nightkill), and failed due to (what they believe to be) Doc protection. They then decided that they needed to hit the doc N5. Since you had essentially "cleared" SpectrumVoid, and since SV never claimed her role, there was a fair chance she may have been the Doc, and hence she was NK'd (semi-confirmed innocents who might be Doc is a logical choice). In contrast, I very much doubted I would be nightkilled since I have already claimed that I have no nightchoices.

Of course, it could just be that you're a Space Monkey yanking our chains, hoping that somebody like me would propose that exact theory so as to explain you not dying further along in the game, but whatever.

[petroleumjelly]

Notable:

It seems rather apparent to me that the Space Monkeys are scum, and that Gorillas are the town. Unfortunately, I 'm guessingthat the Space Monkeys knew this, so "figuring it out" isn't nearly a viable method of confirming anybody.

I would agree with this - and I would further think that the people who first "deduced" this are probably more likely to be Space Monkeys.

They

all knew the jig was up by D3, and were able to discuss it by N4, after all. I would expect at least one false "epiphany" post from scum somewhere.

However, your claim

seems

to check out well enough for me

for now.

I was irked by the wording of this the first time around, still irked by it now. This is purposely vague as to whether it is similar, but instead if "seems to check out"... this almost looks like a licking your finger and putting in the air to see which way the wind blows in relation to my claim before he makes any further comment on it. He probably didn't

know

the flavor of the Gorillas, so just figured he would say "well, that seems to check out, but only for now".

Bah. Lousy Glork. Die already.

[klebian]

Need to be off to class very soon, but

FoS: Glork

. This might turn into a vote very soon. The entire Masterchief scenario yesterday (with Glork pushing for it constantly after trying to make

me

look worse for "rolling lynches along") played on my mind while the game was waiting in night.

Um... I think you misunderstand the "suspicious for rolling lynches along" argument I was going to make yesterday. That was in reference to Days 1-3 when I felt that Space Monkeys would have wanted to do so in order to keep the town from discussing and possibly figure things out. My case was based on the way you pursued Bird/inHim/Glork, not from anything you did post-revelation (especially considering you didn't actually figure things out until we were in D4). If you think you can make a legitimate parallel between pre-revelation behavior and post-revelation behavior, I'm interested to hear it. But I'm not really sure where you're coming from with that.

Personally, I'd think that gorillas would be just as liable (if not more liable) to roll lynches along so we could get to night and hope to be found...

Well, judging from the fact that the space monkeys have roles in addition to the scumgroup(we saw a monkey doctor), I can guess that there is at most 3 more monkeys in our midst (2 have already been killed, and anything more than 5 in an 18 player game with additional power roles would be unbalanced).

see, the thing is, the doctor may have just been a decoy to make us think that monkeys were actually dying at night, and that they actually had roles. However, I did overlook that, and you are right, there are probably only 3, not 4 monkeys alive right now.

PJ, I agree with you on glork. I will throw out a

vote: glork

, in fact.

[Glork]

I still want an answer from PJ.

I don't answer to monkeys.

Vote: Glork

. I smell monkey dung all over him. He didn't even bother to really consider not lynching MasterChief yesterday, but instead stupidly pushed "lynch Masterchief as soon as possible" agenda without pondering alternatives to MC's play. I've seen him play similarly as scum, especially when it comes to picking on the worst players who are pretty much

bound

screw up, and then to harp on them

when

they screw up to push an eventual lynch.

Wrong, right, right, and wrong.
I'm not a Monkey.
I did go after MC pretty much right away.
I did want MC lynched and didn't look at anybody else with any firm lynch-intent.
I'm curious to see what evidence you have against . In Mafia 49, for example, I seem to recall protecting newer players (I shied away from significant wagons/lynches on Max, Machiavellian-Mafia, and Masterchief) and going after the likes of MBL and BMQ. In Caddyshack, I went after RAJ extensively on Day Two. The only example I can think of off-hand in which I went after newer players specifically would be Committee Mafia.

The explanation for my pushing of an MC lynch is very simple. I was quite convinced that he was scum. So I clamored that we lynch him. That's pretty much what I do. Don't make me go hunting for supporting examples; I'm a lazy bastard and I don't feel like doing it.

Also, Glork indicated that he "got it" on D3 of the game, and by that time, I seriously doubt many people would have seriously "got" that Space Monkeys were scum at that point in the game, unless they had more info than the average player (i.e. Thok).

I wouldn't consider myself "many people." Thok hinted several times that things were in reverse, and it didn't really dawn on me until he said "Et tu, Glork?" Between that, Zindie's hinting, and the deaths to date, I still maintain that it wasn't terribly difficult to figure it out. In the very next post, Dahen indicated that he too understood what was going on. Klebian needed a little bit of extra time (presumably Thok's post about him being in "the informed minority"), but he too got it before the end of the day. It is not unreasonable to conclude that Thok's additional info led to his earlier discovery, but if you look at the numbers he was looking at (1 dead SM, 1 investigated SM, 3 dead Gorillas, 3 investigated Gorillas -- unless I miscounted) versus what we had on D3 (1 dead SM, 4 dead Gorillas; Thok essentially claiming info and hinting towards backwardsness of alignment; the own traitor nature of our own role PM), it just... makes sense to me.

[Twito]

I just did a re-read of 1 and a half hour on other game. I don't have the power to re-read here just yet. Sorry. The other game is deadline and seemed more urgent to me.

[petroleumjelly]

No, I still think Glork is scum.

For example, try reading back on his D4 actions.

What's to be confused about? I understand perfectly. If you're part of the uninformed majority and you look back at yetserday, you should understand, too.

This does not make any logical sense.

1.) If I was a Space Monkey, I would not have been confused about the CES lynch
2.) If I was a Gorilla, that is the

only

way I could have been confused about the CES lynch

In fact, "the uninformed majority" were the people

most likely

to be confused, as opposed to the other way around.

For any Gorilla, that was a loaded question. For any Space Monkey, it was a softball question.

Are you a Gorilla or a Space Monkey?

I didn't like this question at the time (of course, I was still thinking I was scum at that time), and from that position, there is pretty much no right way to answer.

1.) If I answer that I am a Space Monkey, I suddenly find out the truth and get lynched, despite trying to truly claim afterwards (although that wouldn't have happened in this particular case, since Thok had investigated me). See: Masterchief, and that people would have stupidly pushed the "Lynch All Liars" agenda.

Here's the problem: if I

were

a Space Monkey, I sure as heck wouldn't have claimed to be one.

Claiming Space Monkey would actually be an indicator that somebody is pro-town, and is figuring they need to fake-claim.

See: Masterchief.

2.) If I answer that I am a Gorilla (which I did after much internal debating), I have to

hope

that every scrap of flavor, that my role, that the first nightkill... is lying. I have to

hope

that everything in the game is lying to me. At that point in time, I was considering that the Space Monkeys were some sort of "searching Mason" group, and that everybody was "in on" the game, or something.

Basically, both of Glork's questions towards me were going to do the

opposite

of help him find Space Monkeys. The best he was going to do was get a Gorilla to fake-claim Space Monkey because they didn't understand the set-up. The Space Monkeys

already knew about the set-up the entire game

, so there is no way they would botch up answering Glork's questions

at all

.

The attack on Masterchief yesterday was stupid. It seemed evident to me that he was not paying attention to the thread.

*** Even if Masterchief were a Space Monkey, I am positive his partners would have double-checked to tell him to claim Gorilla if he ever needed to claim later in the game. The entire wagon pretty much made no sense.

Personally, my vote on him was more out of annoyance in that I didn't want to bother dealing with him later in the game, and because I was annoyed that the town wasn't bothering to think along different veins of thought or even bother to consider sparing Masterchief. He

could

have been scum, yes: but the sheer naivete of his actions indicated to me that he was probably town. I don't think there was very good evidence one way or the other.

In particular (as I mentioned), the Lynch-All-Liars "justification" was absolute drivel, specifically because of the nature of this game. If a Gorilla is still under the impression that he is scum,

he will lie

. I wanted to hammer AndrewS for even bringing it up, but he had apparently been investigated by Thok, so I let him alone.

As for Glork's defense, it didn't do anything for me. He was rushing

the most crucial

day in the game to lynch

an unimportant player

who has a large history of

not paying attention to games

. I was very unimpressed. Seeing as that was the third mislynch of the game, I can see scum pushing the envelop to secure it while ending discussion if they have the opportunity, since we likely only have one or two mislynches left before the town loses the game.

[Glork]

Post 525: You call the question loaded or not-making-sense, but you're ignoring the fact that if you were a Space Monkey, you could have continued to feign confusion (which is certainly something I could see a crafty SM trying to do). In fact, your response

looked

like you were playing far dumber than I figured GorillaPJ would actually be:

I'm apparently uninformed, that's for sure. Otherwise I might understand why you are implying that yesterday somehow makes perfect sense. I guess the whole "Thok led a mislynch on CES" and then calling it "excellent" confuses me.

As for yesterday's lynch, it looks like a mislynch to me, in a town which I am noticing is prone to bandwagoning. Last I checked, we're supposed to be lynching gorilla-scum. Are you trying to imply that gorillas

are not

scum, and that space monkeys

are

?

I felt at that point that you were either genuinely not paying attention (and/or that you were denser than I was giving you credit for) or that you were deliberately "not paying attention." I was leaning towards the latter. That's why I asked the other question to which you replied.

Post 528: Apparently you didn't understand the intent behind this one. There was plenty of evidence in the thread to lead you towards the idea that Gorillas are town and Space Monkeys are scum. My question, if you'll notice, was the first explicit mentioning of the two groups with a distinct eye towards questioning GorillaScum. The question was not one by which to

judge

you. It was one to make you openly discuss what most of the rest of us were thinking. I didn't particularly want you to

claim

... but again, I was looking for some insight as to how you would end up having your revelation. I had a case laid out against you already, but I wanted to be sure that you understood why I made the case that I did, and I thought that your reaction would be telling in some way or another.


Also, I find it more-than-ridiculous that you're harping on me for pressing the MC lynch when you yourself voted out of annoyance (and even though you

thought

he was likely pro-town). Nor do I understand how you can question the basis behind the wagon. As I mentioned in the first part of my post, "confusion" isn't a tell either way. Suppose one of MC's scumbuddies had told him to act really aloof when the shit hit the proverbial fan. I hadn't really thought about it one way or another in MC's case; I maintain that I thought I'd found scum, and I don't think you can make a case that my behavior was inconsistent with the way I normally act when I want a lynch to go through. In retrospect, yes, I can almost see where you have a point about his confusion and apparent not-paying-attention.

Call it OMGUS if you'd like, but your behavior has me thinking that if there

is

a Godfather-like role in the game that you are probably the one with that role. Though you voted on the MC wagon (despite stating that you think he was pro-town), you never attempted to analytically dismantle the case against him until today.

I'd really like to know why you didn't do so.

If you don't like the lynch, it is not smart or appropriate to join the wagon and then attack another player for it the next day. The play is to try to convince the town that he is not the right lynch. You say that you were annoyed that the town wasn't talking enough on the most critical day of the game. Yet instead of actively doing something to prolong the day, by defending a player you thought to be pro-town, you joined the wagon and let the lynch go through. This makes

no sense whatsoever.

[Thok]

For what it's worth, I felt that both of you (Glork and PJ) dropped traitor hints day 2. I'm also have trouble seeing a PJ or Glork scum group targetting SV last night.

I know you both feel the urge to throw massive posts at each other, but I'd prefer that we focus on people that might actually be scum.

[Fritzler]

i don't think we should kill glork or pj

[Glork]

i don't think we should kill glork or pj

Who *do* you think we should kill?

[klebian]

Basically, glork, what you're saying is that you think that in a game where the first 3 days have most of the town thinkin they're scum, you think the ONE gorilla investigative role will be hindered by a godfather, AND that the godfather (and I guess, the rest of the scum) has the exact generic townie PM?

[Fritzler]

kind of am thinking andrew

[Glork]

Basically, glork, what you're saying is that you think that in a game where the first 3 days have most of the town thinkin they're scum, you think the ONE gorilla investigative role will be hindered by a godfather, AND that the godfather (and I guess, the rest of the scum) has the exact generic townie PM?

No. I'm saying that

IF

there's a Godfather role (which, yes, would exist to throw off the one investigative role... though this is hardly out-of-the-ordinary), then I think that it would be PJ.

As far as the role PM goes, I'm trying to think about that; it's really the one thing that's kept me from switching to PJ. I'll admit that it's far less likely that Space Monkeys have entire role PMs. But in order to avoid breaking the game post-revelation, I would expect that they have some kind of flavor. Win condition, rolename(s) (such as Soldier)... something.

Don't try to interpret "I think the existence of a Godfather means that PJ is scum" to mean "I think that there is a Godfather and that PJ is the one."I still find the existence of a Godfather as a whole unlikely. But I also feel that there are still things at work here that we just don't understand. I don't know how deep the backwardsness goes, and I don't want us to lose the game because we make an erroneous assumption based on what we think is fair or right.

[Glork]

kind of am thinking andrew

Are you even paying any attention? Andrew was investigated as innocent by Thok.

FoS: Fritz

Get with the program, dude. Seriously. No more goofing around... we're probably not at LyLo yet, but you're certainly not helping find any scums.

[Fritzler]

kind of am thinking andrew

Are you even paying any attention? Andrew was investigated as innocent by Thok.

FoS: Fritz

Get with the program, dude. Seriously. No more goofing around... we're probably not at LyLo yet, but you're certainly not helping find any scums.

did that happen today?

cuz i haven't been paying attention since then, ill reread later

woe...

[Glork]

Yesterday, Thok announced his results:

I might as well release my results now (although they may not mean much if Pooky doesn't get replaced).

Night 1 CES-Space Monkey
Night 2 PJ-Gorilla
Night 3 Phoebus (now SV)-Gorilla
Night 4 Pooky-Gorilla

AndrewS replaced Pooky later in the day.

Unvote, Vote: Fritzler

I'm really not buying/liking this right now. I'll return to Nightson in a bit, but I want to put Fritz under the microscope. If you're actually a Gorilla, seriously shape up and go re-read the thread or something. If you're a Space Monkey... well, thank you. You're making this almost too easy.

[Fritzler]

what, how the fuck was i supposed to remember that andrew replaced pooky when i thought about the results?

COME ON