Mini 368: Town Of Suspicion - Game over!

[CrashTextDummie]

So, more directly: what do you see as the difference between my 507 and al's 499?

The difference is that you FoSed Thok for dropping the hammer on a bandwagon you supported pretty much all day long. The fact that you followed this up with a WIFOMy defense of sorts, and have since seemingly downgraded this suspicion to "I don't have to like it" doesn't change my feeling that there was something amiss with your 507.

The difference is also that he has been giving me mostly pro-town vibes and that I find the explanations he has given for his actions, including his ambivalence towards the M4yhem lynch, believable.

As a matter of fact, I don't think your 507 and his 499 have a whole lot in common, and I don't quite understand why you're so adamant to hear me compare them. Are you trying to justify yours by ways of "he did it too"?

I've been feeling like a vote CTD for a while, so it's time to do it.

I'm sure you have reasons, so why don't you spill them.

As for the latest slew of posts, I didn't like M4yhem's post 666 (must be the sign of the devil), because it sounds distinctly anti-town to me. Clearly, the town is not through with Alko, or he would have been lynched already. The deadline doesn't hit for another week, so there's no need to rush anything.

I'd also like TSQ to finish the analysis he started a while ago, because I have no idea where he stands at this point.

[al_kohaulec]

hmm... ok, I gotta look over that again then, I said that becaues I was thinking of my thoughts on LML being town, and you replaced him.

[al_kohaulec]

and aside from that, the LML hinting at being vanilla townie, and Relyte claiming vanilla townie makes that even more likely for you to be town... Which makes your actions now very questionable.

[Thok]

However, Thok's reaction is curious. I'm more worried about Thok now based on that short reaction. The non-comment is opening up opportunity for the future without saying much. I don't like it. I know, it's based on a very short statement, but, hrm, it's not keeping me at ease.

I meant what I said from my comment; I wasn't sure whether you were being sarcastic or not. I've told you my feelings about your playstyle before in other games.

@ CTD, part of it is my meta on you, part of it is your voting in agreement with alko, part of it is my meta on mith, and part of it is that I feel that somebody on the scum team didn't push the M4yhem lynch and some on the scum team would defend me (you cover both of those positions).

[petroleumjelly]

Did a somewhat focused reread. I got a distinct pro-town vibe from AmeliaSlay, but I can't remember who replaced her at the moment.

Also noticing that I have indeed been all over the place this game. *shrug*

I keep getting acquiescent vibes from mith towards me. I've probably mentioned this earlier, but I viewed all his posts in isolation and got the same feeling again.

I don't find what petroleumjelly said initially (or in arguing with LML) particularly unreasonable. I do find it interesting that he is still voting for Thok, though.

Ugh. The stupid "why is PJ still voting for Thok?" issue still seems incredibly stupid. Upon asking "why should I take it off?", we have:

pj: Why leave it on? There was enough discussion to form better-than-random suspicions. I don't buy the bit about him not having contributed; the game was barely a day old.

Which was untrue: at that point in the game, the only other contributor was pretty much LML, and I didn't find him suspicious enough to warrant a vote at the time. When I pointed it that it seemed like mith was trying to make me look somehow suspicious for not unvoting Thok, we had:

pj, I never said it was suspicious. I said it was interesting. I was curious to find whether your motivations were consistent and believable. I consider random votes to be worthless, but I understand that not everyone views them in the same way.

I disagreed then, and I disagree now. By the wording of Post 26, it boils down to me as "PJ's stance on the scum group is reasonable. Leaving his vote on Thok (note the use of the word "though", which expresses an opposite opinion to the first) was

not

reasonable. I see that as an attempt to cast slight suspicion, with a denial of doing so afterwards.

After I effectively quash mith's route towards attacking

me

, I make Post 56 followed by mith's Post 57, where he follows me. Ding!

pj, I never said "OMG, three votes" was an issue. I initially left it (my interest) vague, and later clarified that it was because there were other things happening (particularly CES's third-vote, MM's self-vote, and the argument with LML) which might have (should have?) given you something more to go on than randomness.

"We coo', bro? You dig me? Nothin' against you, dawg."

*feebly tries to make a reconciliatory fist-to-fist connection*

I dunno, this post just reads like a white guy trying to wiggle out of a narrowing corner. Not quite sure why I'm mentioning this, to be frank.

Afterwards, mith seems to make it a mission to mention things I've mentioned.

LML hasn't made any further comment on me, but he has posted. And he's done a bit of fishing, as pj pointed out.

pj's summary is pretty much what I would've said, so I won't waste words repeating it.

pj hasn't set off my scum-o-meter at all yet. If I had to pick one player (other than myself) as most likely to be innocent, it would be him. I'm quite surprised he has three votes.

I remain content with my Rosso vote. I'm glad pj brought up Pie C9, I probably would've mentioned it if he hadn't. His point (I think) is that while most of what he has done in this game is just "playstyle" (like CES), in Rosso's case said "playstyle" is bad for the town (whereas CES has just been mostly harmless). Scummy behavior shouldn't be completely excused just because of playstyle.

pj, talk away. I do still find you the most innocent, but I don't know where you get the idea I'm "following" you, so you'll have to elaborate

Bah, now I'm already doubting myself with Post 303.

Italicized because this is not relevant to mith. TSQ, did you ever explain yourself for Post 349? You seem to have reversed pretty much all of your suspicions by now (having voted for me, Thok, and Relyte [Pablito] who you said were town, while being wrong about M-M, M4yhem, and now heading away from Rosso [LuckayLuck].

And damnit. I don't know. I'm tired, and I don't like this game. I might try to finish this post later.

Although there was something I had originally caught that I wanted explained, let me see if I can find it again...

Oh yes, the possible connection between Alko/Rosso [now Luckay].

pj, 547: Regarding the al/Rosso connection, posts 4 and 40 would actually lead me to the opposite conclusion. I don't see al making a joke like that if he was scum with Rosso.

Now:

3. I normally don't think much about linking people until we actually have a dead scum to link with, but LL's wording in 626 (that he has "set [himself] completely apart from" al), coupled with a few comments from al regarding Rosso (he's never been shy about saying he thinks Rosso was innocent) makes me wonder if LL is scum with al.

Hey, it's a better theory than the nonsense in

617. FOS: LuckayLuck

Explain, please?

[M4yhem]

CTD- I'm not the most patient of players; having found someone that I think is scum, I generally want them lynched to see if I'm right. It doesn't help that I play mafia on some other forums where there is a lynch every day, rather than once a month.

As for the new stuff that's happening:
I find TSQ's attack on Pablito unsound. I think Pablito's responses seem pretty good to me, and I don't see why Thok made the comment he did.
Nothing worth changing my vote over.

[mith]

As a matter of fact, I don't think your 507 and his 499 have a whole lot in common, and I don't quite understand why you're so adamant to hear me compare them. Are you trying to justify yours by ways of "he did it too"?

No. If you don't believe my explanation in 614, there's not really much more I can say on that.

I don't suppose they do have that much in common aside from that they express annoyance at Thok. With my post, you've read a subtle denial into it that isn't there, with his, there's nothing subtle about it: he is flat out denying responsibility (in 499, by saying that he was leaning toward changing his vote, and that he didn't get to see the claim, and later blaming it on M4yhem's continued scumminess).

My point is this: I can understand why someone might find 507 suspect. What I can't understand is how you can find it suspect and not 499. And that makes me suspicious of you.

Busy tonight, so I'll leave the rest of pj's post for later (like, when/if he finishes it), but:

Explain, please?

When I made the first statement, I was just doing a quick skim. I know I didn't read through your entire al post. I did take a quick look at the first few links, and commented. And I stand by what I said; those two posts on their own wouldn't lead me to think they weren't connected.

I still don't see al making that joke as scum with Rosso... but I also wouldn't have thought al would make post 645 whatever his alignment. New stuff happens, my feelings change. When I made the second statement, it had more to do with LL's post than anything al did; I was, however, doing a reread specifically on al today and at the end of yesterday, and it caught my eye that he had said several times he found Rosso pro-town. It's not something I would base a vote on (linkages, I mean), but I felt it worth noting for later.

[mith]

Got a little bored earlier at Uni, so I decided it was time to go through al's mini-fied post. I couldn't believe what I found - apparently al is feeling so guilty about being scum that his subconscious has planted a message for us:



Die die die...

(On a

slightly

more serious note... where is everyone?)

[petroleumjelly]

Feh, I probably won't finish that post any time soon. Maybe some day. Still, I would like TSQ to explain his shift in suspicions from yesterday to his votes today.

[Thestatusquo]

CTD- I'm not the most patient of players; having found someone that I think is scum, I generally want them lynched to see if I'm right. It doesn't help that I play mafia on some other forums where there is a lynch every day, rather than once a month.

As for the new stuff that's happening:
I find TSQ's attack on Pablito unsound. I think Pablito's responses seem pretty good to me, and I don't see why Thok made the comment he did.
Nothing worth changing my vote over.

I would ask you how the response "I am indeed hedging my bets. *Insert OMGUS attack" is sound. Like, he pretty much admitted to what I said, and then attacked me for saying it, how is that an unsound attack and a 'good' response? Are you even reading the thread?

[al_kohaulec]

OMG, Mith saw my secret code. Only mafia were supposed to see that so they'd know who I was and start protecting me. Since Mith figured it out and is still attacking me for it, he must not be part of my mafia, and it also means that now my mafia buddies will be putting a noose around their own neck to protect me.

:O

[Thok]

I am here. Nobody seems to have any interest at all in my worries about CTD. Alko seems completely and totally indifferent to his fate. Nobody seems to be willing to either hammer alko or explain why somebody else is a better target.

[pablito]

TSQ, are you saying I OMGUSed you? Cause I didn't.

[petroleumjelly]

Are you even reading the thread?

Still, I would like TSQ to explain his shift in suspicions from yesterday to his votes today.

[M4yhem]

I am also here. I have no interest in Thok's worries about CTD. :p I

would

hammer Al, but I'm already voting for him. I see noone who is a better target.

I would ask you how the response "I am indeed hedging my bets. *Insert OMGUS attack" is sound. Like, he pretty much admitted to what I said, and then attacked me for saying it, how is that an unsound attack and a 'good' response? Are you even reading the thread?

It's not just what he says, it's the way he said it. I think his

tone

, his attitude in responding to your allegations is protown. I also don't think he omgused you. Yes, I am reading the thread. Thanks for asking.

[Thok]

M4yhem, would you like to describe how the play of M4yhem1 and M4yhem2 compares to your play in Bastard Mod? (I'm asking since you've mentioned that you play differently as scum and town, and Bastard Mod is the only game where I've seen you as scum.)

[M4yhem]

Thok, isn't that your job rather than mine?

But okay.
When I first replaced into Bastard mod, my strategy was fairly simple; pick someone who I thought I could get lynched, and argue against them as passionately and logically as possible. That worked okay for the first day; I managed to get Toaster lynched instead of my buddy Glork, and noone seemed to suspect me.
It all fell apart in the second day, because I got lazy and didn't provide a conveniant lynch target. My play tends to suffer when other players don't post much and when there are delays; I basically gave up defending myself properly and made random jokes instead.

How does that compare with my play here? Well, the differece between that and M4yhem1 is fairly obvious. I'm basically all over the place on day one as town. There are so many suspects and so little evidence that I want to vote for everybody. You can see shades of my scum play in the way I went after Relyte, but I backed off him when he started to seem town, something I never do as scum.

As for M4yhem2, well that's harder to quantify. On day two I have a shortlist of suspects to go after, based on what happened on day one and during the night.
I like to go after people hard, both as town and scum, so it probably looks pretty similar. I'd say the main difference is I'm slightly more open-minded as town.

And obviously, my play suffers both as town and scum from long days. You can see that for Mayhem1 at the end of day one, and it's starting to happen again now.

Helpful? Check out Seven Samurai mafia if you are

really

interested in my scum play. That's a much better example than bastard mod.

[Kelly Chen]

Vote Count

4 - al_kohaulec (M4yhem, pablito, mith, LuckayLuck)
2 - mith (CrashTextDummie, al_kohaulec)
1 - CrashTextDummie (Thok)
1 - pablito (Thestatusquo)

not voting: petroleumjelly

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch!

Tentative deadline for

Wednesday, Jan 24

. Most votes gets it.

Let me know if you are desirous of specific prods.

[Thok]

Thok, isn't that your job rather than mine?

I had basically come to the same conclusions about M4yhem1. I wanted to hear you discuss M4yhem2 and have you quantify what you think you differently when town and scum.

[Thok]

Mod

Please prod LuckayLuck and CTD. Neither has posted in a week.

Done.

[M4yhem]

I'm not your performing monkey, Thok. If you want something specific, ask me straight out. But it's

your

job to analyse my behaviour.

[Thok]

No, it's perfectly reasonable for me to ask you questions and try to get reactions from you. If you don't like the question, you can choose not to answer it.

I'm not making you do my analysis; I'm trying to see how you would react to the question, which gives me and others more information.

[pablito]

I'm a bit bothered.

Shouldn't a pro-town person be continually analysing his own behavior along the way? Otherwise couldn't the pro-town person be making huge mistakes that annoy and distract the town if the person is not aware of how badly he's playing? So in a way, isn't, then, a pro-town player's job to analyse his behavior?

I can respect wanting to be asked specific questions, but I do believe that all players should be continually be analysing or at the least, recognizing his behavior during the game.

Nonetheless, that discussion is independent of anyone's alignment and we should get back to realizing that alko is our most likely and probably our best lynch for the day considering all circumstances.

[petroleumjelly]

Let me know if you are desirous of any

game abandonments.

Yes please.

I don't see this day going anywhere, and nobody seems compelled to change that. I would rather see if I can get TSQ to answer my question, however, seeing as a vote would not even be necessary for Alko to be lynched at deadline in any case.

[M4yhem]

Thok- Well that's fine; you know I like to do reaction-testing too, so it would be hypocritical of me to ban you from doing it. However, is there any particular reason you're singleing me out? What does my reaction tell you?

Pablito- Maybe you're right. I never pay much attention to how my behavior looks as town because I'm concentrating on trying to find scum. Recently, I've been lynched early quite a lot. Maybe there's a connection? Who knows. It's something I'm trying to work on.

PJ- I believe this day

is

going somewhere. Very slowly, true, but when Al is lynched I think we will have lots to go on.