Micro 181: Everyone's being watched (Game Over)

[fuzzybutternut]

/confirm

Hey guys!

[fuzzybutternut]

Human Destroyer I would imagine.

[fuzzybutternut]

VOTE: Rach
For being a good person.

[fuzzybutternut]

VOTE: Zionite

Contribution to town shouldn't have to be forced.

[fuzzybutternut]

Voting a lurker looks like you're wanting to get an easy PL lynch going.
Which is what scum does.
Yeah. I like my vote.

[fuzzybutternut]

Lol "bully you." Your vote obviously isn't contributing to town, like, at all. So the fact that you insist on keeping it there means you don't want to help town.

[fuzzybutternut]

Umm...yes, I can, actually. Your vote as it is right now is useless, as we have no information on the slot. Tell me how that helps town?

[fuzzybutternut]

So what information have you gotten, Zionite?

[fuzzybutternut]

I don't condone lynching someone simply because they're lurking. I'm the only one voting Grimgroove, so to act as if I'm trying to get an easy lynch is ridiculous.

I haven't pushed a case for Grimgroove or tried to convince anyone, so how can you say I'm seeking a lynch

? But I will use my vote for pressure whenever I choose; that's why it's there. I don't like Grimgroove's response to it so I'm leaving it there. I won't let you bully me out of it.

.....

[fuzzybutternut]

lol Horus, you said something? Lol. Sorry. :S

[fuzzybutternut]

^because he's scum.

[fuzzybutternut]

Fluff keeps a game interesting to read.

[fuzzybutternut]

That's one hell of a way to ask me to answer a question, guy.

I'll get around to it.

[fuzzybutternut]

fuzzybutternut: You had been posting during RVS without random-voting, then I voted for you for not voting and then yiu random-voted. Do you see value in RVS participation? If so, then why were you abstaining until I brought it up? If not, then why did you join in at my prompting?

I had one post before my RVS. Therefore, this question is invalid.

[fuzzybutternut]

That's one hell of a way to ask me to answer a question, guy.

Seriously? So if someone would say "Why haven't you washed your hair?", you would not take that as a hint to wash your hair? I guess I'll be communicating very straightforwardly with your from now on.

Your last answer was pretty bad. Something along these lines would have been better:

"Indeed, I had one post before my RVS. Therefore, this question is valid. Here is my answer to it: ... "

Could you fill in the dots?

There really isn't anything to fill in. I literally had one post before my RVS vote. There is no rule stating that your first post in game HAS to be RVS.

[fuzzybutternut]

lol Horus, stop being so damn town. It hurts.

[fuzzybutternut]

Well, I initially put my vote on him to pressure him and, since then, he's shown me no reason to take it off, so, yeah.

[fuzzybutternut]

Well, I initially put my vote on him to pressure him and, since then, he's shown me no reason to take it off, so, yeah.

You haven't given us reason for the original vote besides pressure despite promising more details.

You haven't shown why my response to your pressure vote is reason to leave it there.

Because you all but freaked out over it. Town doesn't do that.

[fuzzybutternut]

Uh, the town response would be to ignore it, Zi.

Why do votes matter to you so much if you're town?

[fuzzybutternut]

I don't really like DBK's L-1 vote. Seemed like he had a case, but never went into details about it. Which is sketchy to me.

I'd probably move my vote there if I didn't already feel as if its in a good spot.

He seems to be freaking out in my opinion.

@Fuzzy:

You seem different this game.. More activity for one and secondly giving out reads.. Is there a reason for this? Did you roll scum?

No, actually. I thought you were in the game that I explained my hatred for scum roles? *shrug*

[fuzzybutternut]

DBK- I said that a town response would be to ignore those who vote you without reason.
I can quote if you'd like.

[fuzzybutternut]

RachMarie:

Rach and Grim, thoughts on fuzzy?

I'm coming around to the Zionite wagon, I've been trying to work out my thoughts on him and I'm actually finding it a very arduous task to move him out of the null column one way or the other; we basically get one snippet of meaningful activity between him and I immediately outside of RVS, and after that his focus immediately narrows exclusively to trying to negotiate townreads on him.

His early content becomes crucial in reading him because almost everything afterward is focused on defense and claiming towncred, which does less to inform us of his alignment and more his personality/playstyle: It is evident that Zionite is accustomed to being able to snatch early towncred and begin to command the thread in the game's earliest stages. The fact that this strategy has so spectacularly backfired in this instance confounds him and he is now focused almost entirely on figuring out what went wrong and reclaiming the perceived towncred he feels we're denying him.

This singular focus on defense is something I would ordinarily find scummy, but I've been burned enough times by people who did this and flipped Town to be wary - his ego (as I perceive it) suggests he is a seasoned player, however, who wouldn't fall victim to such a vice as Town (his #89 provides a helpful window, informing us he does, in fact, consider one's fixation on their own wagon a scumtell), so I am left to wonder...

why did he stop scumhunting once he became a suspect?

I like this wagon, but I'm wary because I've heard a lot of quiet agreement that fuzzybutternut is suspicious, but there's been no movement on that front - which is rather odd.

You'll come to realize sooner or later that the way I play this game is completely different from anyone else. That being said, you'll get used to this....
or you won't. Doesn't matter to me.

[fuzzybutternut]

I'll case Fuzzy when you're done with whatever this is.

Does that make me scum? Your original argument somehow concludes that it does but I don't follow.

Some things can't be defended, and you're really good at pushing those rhetorical arguments. But when you pull it apart and look at the pieces it's easier to tell where it is flawed. This is a good interaction though; I think it's safe to say we're not scum buddies.

If I was one of your top suspects, you'd already have been on my case and you wouldn't have left my case unless you had a reason.

[fuzzybutternut]

Why yes. Yes it is.

[fuzzybutternut]

fuzzybutternut: Everyone plays this game differently from everyone else, I don't see how this observation was especially relevant to the statement you were responding to.

Yes, that's true; however, most people adopt things from other people as they play. I don't.

[fuzzybutternut]

Because what you call "odd" I call "normal." It's how I play the game.

[fuzzybutternut]

Oh and Meta was scumz. I was the doc. He did make me unlynchable in that game.

Pedit

Fuzzy

Could you clarify that since odd can mean many things?

Horus(?) Was saying that my interactions with people and the way I was playing the game was odd, and I was telling him that it's not "odd" for me.

[fuzzybutternut]

I can?
I do it all the time.

[fuzzybutternut]

I know this is going to sound stupid, but I'm fairly certain DBK is town, now.

[fuzzybutternut]

Because it's solely based off your last post.

[fuzzybutternut]

Yes.
And because I see no scum motivation behind admitting that you were wrong about something and withdrawing a previous statement.

[fuzzybutternut]

Probable scum. In her 11 posts, she's had 3 votes (one of which was opportunistic as fuck). I'm not quite ready to vote for her yet, though.

I need to hear more, and I still think Zi is scum.

[fuzzybutternut]

@fuzzy:

Funny. DBK admits he was wrong in a post and he becomes a town read for it. I do the same thing and I'm a mild scum read.. Does it make sense? Nope.

My first vote was RVS.. You didn't have a problem with my second vote, but now apparently you bring that up. My third vote was an accidental misunderstanding which pinged a scum radar enough to warrant a vote.

Funny how you immediately try to defend yourself when I say that you are

probable

scum. Town doesn't do that.

[fuzzybutternut]

Yes, I understood your question as soon as you asked it.

You

have done more than

she

has.

[fuzzybutternut]

@fuzzy:

Funny. DBK admits he was wrong in a post and he becomes a town read for it. I do the same thing and I'm a mild scum read.. Does it make sense? Nope.

My first vote was RVS.. You didn't have a problem with my second vote, but now apparently you bring that up. My third vote was an accidental misunderstanding which pinged a scum radar enough to warrant a vote.

Funny how you immediately try to defend yourself when I say that you are

probable

scum. Town doesn't do that.

Word of advice. Town

does

do that. I'm calling out for your illogical mindset. You stated you had a town read on one player, but instead of giving a slight town read to another player.. You put them as probable scum. The fact you're not applying the same thing to two different people is rather odd.

Again, if you had a problem with my vote the first time around.. Why didn't you call it out then? Why did you wait until now to do so?

Mild scum read to me is the same as probable scum. Mild you aren't really feeling up to vote for them, but they are pinging a radar.
____

@Mara:

Do we even

have

a completed town game together? I know I was town during HB, but I was also in a hydra so that's not really the correct way to 'research'.

You're placing a 'jumpy' tell with only half a meta read.

No, probable scum means that I find it very likely you could be scum. If I thought you were scum, I'd vote you; however, I don't think you are at this particular moment. The only reason I mentioned that you were probable scum is because you displayed behavior that I found more scummy than anything else.

[fuzzybutternut]

I explained this, Mala. Two people can say the exact same thing, but that doesn't mean they have to come from the same mindset.

[fuzzybutternut]

You are missing my whole point. If you thought my vote was oppurnist why didn't you call it out prior? Why did you wait until people are looking in my direction before pointing it out?

I didn't. I was asked about you, and I answered. I didn't even notice your vote until I ISO'd you.

[fuzzybutternut]

I really need to update my wiki...:S It's about 20 games behind.

[fuzzybutternut]

umm Fuzzy mine is way out of date too, but got anything else to say? like something relevant to the game at hand?

What do you think of Zio's case on you?

What do you think of how Wis has been defending you?

That is relevant, what with all the meta talk going on.

Zio's case on me is shit. I have no reason to sit here and argue against it, because it's a scum-drawn wagon. Nothing I say is going to make scum change their minds that they want to lynch me. Look elsewhere if you're not scum.

[fuzzybutternut]

Clearly I think Zio is scum. Not entirely sure on his partner, though.

[fuzzybutternut]

fuzzy, remind me what your case on Zionite is.

Iso me.

[fuzzybutternut]

Not particularly. I don't see her as scum.

[fuzzybutternut]

I wonder how many times I'm going to do that.

umm Fuzzy mine is way out of date too, but got anything else to say? like something relevant to the game at hand?

What do you think of Zio's case on you?

What do you think of how Wis has been defending you?

That is relevant, what with all the meta talk going on.

Zio's case on me is shit. I have no reason to sit here and argue against it, because it's a scum-drawn wagon. Nothing I say is going to make scum change their minds that they want to lynch me. Look elsewhere if you're not scum.

Show me how it's shit; it should be easy for you if that's true. If you're town ignoring a case against you, then you're doing the town a disservice by letting us focus on you instead of scum. It's terrible play or scummy as hell, take your pick.
You don't know my alignment unless you're scum. So if you're town, there's the possibility you're WRONG *gasp* and I could change my mind.
Why aren't you using this as an opportunity to show how I'm scum? My case should be laden with misreps and assumptions if I'm scum.

fuzzy, remind me what your case on Zionite is.

Iso me.

I see no case there.
Wanna vote Rach instead?

That's the problem. There is no case from Fuzzy. And there continues to be no case even in the face of a wealth of content.

LOL. It's towns prerogative as to who they want to focus on. I've already stated that my wagon is scum-drawn. If they want to continue to look my way, so be it.

I did make a case against you. It wasn't a big case, but it was enough to put you as scum imo.

[fuzzybutternut]

I'm not asking for support on it.

Say I made a good case about him. If he's scum, yeah, that's great and all, but it's day one, and it leaves his partner open to go "oh, hey, I can't save him without outting myself. Oh wells"
If he's town, both scum could go "you know, that's a really good point. I like that case"

No, i'm not doing that. I've stated that I found him scummy. My vote is on him. That's where it's going to stay until I see something scummy somewhere else.

[fuzzybutternut]

I didn't say that, but I'm not going to sit here and say "oh hey come to this wagon it's so much better LOL".

No, I'm going to look for connections as to who I think his partner is, and then go from there.

[fuzzybutternut]

Nope.
Not at all, actually.

[fuzzybutternut]

????

[fuzzybutternut]

That's a misrep. No where did I say that I didn't care about lynching scum.

It's a micro, and there is usually 2 scum in a micro, so unless i'm wrong about that, that's how I know.

Really now. Why is that?

[fuzzybutternut]

Who's to say I'm not looking on your wagon? I don't openly announce everything I'm going to do. That makes it easy for scum to figure me out. I don't like that, therefore I choose a reclusive playing style. While it might not be hard to do, it is rather suicidal for me to do.

[fuzzybutternut]

If you're a PR, this is the wrong way to play it.

So you're planning on looking at my wagon but haven't yet? Why is planning to look at it so threatening to the scum team? And so what if your reads are public? It makes it easier for TOWN to figure you out too, and even better if you get NK'd and we have something to go on in your name.

Look, don't tell me how to play this game. I know what i'm doing and I don't take kindly to being told what to do or how to do it.

Considering I don't know who's town and who isn't, I don't want anyone figuring me out right now. That leads to sheeping, and I don't want that.

[fuzzybutternut]

Again, there's this idea of uncertainty that town should have that he lacks, which makes him arrogant or scum.

LOL. Have you not realized how stubborn I am yet? I mean, honestly.


Looks like Wisdom is coming to his senses.

[fuzzybutternut]

I don't assume people are going to sheep me. I assume scum is going to sheep me, because they do that kind of thing.

[fuzzybutternut]

It's exactly how wisdom said, Zio. Scum will sheep the popular reads. Say I make a case. A brilliant case that cannot be refuted. The rest of town jumps on it. "Yeah! He's right! How could we have overlooked that!." Scum will sheep that read, whether said person is scum or not. Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

[fuzzybutternut]

Why are you softclaiming a PR?

[fuzzybutternut]

Why are you softclaiming a PR?

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ROLEFISHING.

One does it .. Does not mean you can do it back.

Stfu. ._.

That wasn't me role fishing. That was me asking why he was claiming a PR. There's a difference.

[fuzzybutternut]

So do you have opposing thoughts on Horus/Wisdom, or are you null on them?

[fuzzybutternut]

Can we lynch Zio now?

[fuzzybutternut]

at the same time, though, wouldn't that be near suicidal to do as scum?

[fuzzybutternut]

umm its incorrect because I am Town not scumz, but it is a good case because it shows he is trying to scum hunt not just go for me cause I tend to be an easy lynch.

Maybe you're an easy lynch because you never address anything critical about your play. I don't know if you're town or scum, so simply stating you're town doesn't help anyone. It's more productive and persuasive to break down where my case fails (and it would fail if you were actually town).

at the same time, though, wouldn't that be near suicidal to do as scum?

What is suicidal?

The way DBK hammered.

[fuzzybutternut]

As scum, to just come in and hammer someone without intent or anything. That's pretty much suicidal.

[fuzzybutternut]

Mod: Dead man posting