Open 501: Stacking the Deck of Power (Game Over)

[Mutleyddmc]

Meta is not neccassarily stuipid. Meta of me is. You will only decide I am town from it because I act this way in everything not just this game.

[Syryana]

So you're saying meta is not stupid, but it doesn't apply to you?

[Mutleyddmc]

I would never personally meta someone, but can understand why people would. It can apply to me if you want it to, but if you read old games of mine especially this early on, it won't be too dissimilar and you will get town vibes off me. Fine by me, but from your perspective it would be rather rash and short sighted

[Tierce]

Engh.

Not wanting a Townread just out of meta (meta applies to everyone, you just have to know what to look for, it's not just "I always act like this!") reads Town.

[Lazurial]

@Chenoan: My case is that you're being so careful to announce how you hate wagons, before hopping on one.

[Tierce]

^ Hypocrisy isn't scummy.

[Lazurial]

But blatantly disassociating yourself with your actions is, I would say.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.03

Mutleyddmc (4) - Does Bo Know, Chenoan, Bert, Sakura Hana
Chenoan (2) - Lazurial, Mutleyddmc
havingfitz (1) - Syryana
Sakura Hana (1) - havingfitz

Not Voting (4) - awestfie, Nachomamma8, Tammy, Tierce

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, June 12, 2013, at 12:30 AM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2013-06-12 00:30:00).

[Sakura Hana]

I would never personally meta someone, but can understand why people would. It can apply to me if you want it to, but if you read old games of mine especially this early on, it won't be too dissimilar and you will get town vibes off me. Fine by me, but from your perspective it would be rather rash and short sighted

This post is giving me town vibes, so for now
UNVOTE:

Chenoan's vote doesn't bother me at all he did say "but" right after saying that he didnt like early wagons, didn't you notice that? He also specified a reason for voting him. Holding to little details to make accusations this early on gives me scub vibes on Lazurial

havingfitz seems to be holding on to little details to tunnel me, getting slight scum vibes.

DBK Seems town for now, his actions and reactions seem very natural.

Tierce's sound reasoning gives me town vibes off her.

Syryana gives me Town vibes as well for dissecting mutley's ISO and interactions, and attempting a case.

Everyone else is being null at this point.

Got 2 slight scub vibes on Lazurial and havingfitz, considering havingfitz already has 1 vote, I guess i'll add to the pressure there

VOTE: havingfitz

Could you answer me, why are you tunneling me on small details? and if they arent small details for you then why they arent?

[Lazurial]

This early in the game, aren't small details the most important? There hasn't been any time, nor have there been any significant events, for us to find any big details.

[Tammy]

Just a heads up. My activity might be kinda spotty for the next week. Summer semester started today, and I never know what to expect the first week.

Okay so, I don't get fitz's suspicion of Sakura at all, but that's probably because I find fitz really suspicious and was wondering as I was reading along why no one else saw what I saw until Syryana came along and voiced some of the very thoughts I was thinking. The thing is fitz's vote with reasoning was awkward, and Sakura was asking the right question. It wasn't about everyone else not joining a pressure wagon, but why did fitz specifically go out of his way to vote someone who hadn't been voted already. I just can't believe a town!fitz wouldn't recognize that, and his going after Sakura and line of questioning just screams of going after an easy target. For instance, Post 22 just comes across as willfully misrepresenting the situation to make an action look scummy that wasn't. The only thing that makes me wonder about Sakura is her moving to Nacho after basically being told she should in Post 23, but that's not really all that big a deal as she doesn't look like nervous newbscum, but newbtown who's trying to figure things out. Oh also, the slight snarkiness in Post 26 warms my heart. That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new. And as fitz is not new, it just looks like he's being busy for the sake of it.

Fitz:

So while I would admit Mutley has been a bit annoying in here, a quick look over some of his other games shows as no surprise....he likes short posts (but is capable of more thoughtful content) and he apparently likes to be annoying.  And he's in the middle of a 5 person speed wagon that I predict has a scum or two on it. 

Why did you meta Mutley in particular? Did you also meta Sakura?

Speaking of Mutley...Oh. My. God. Whenever he posts I see the dog jumping all over my computer screen and I get the same visual reading his posts that I do when I read Salamance's posts. I have no idea how to read people that act like him, and the person who is coming around to policy lynches in me is getting itchy. If he's scum he'll be near unreadable and if he's town, scum will never kill him, which unless he starts actually contributing is a problem for us. I'll be interested in hearing Tierce's meta on him, and hopefully he's start actually contributing. Basically no tears will be shed here no matter his alignment at the moment. My glade plug-in is annoyed.

Speaking of...had an early scum read on Bo based on what I think was an initial misinterpretation of Post 21 which I read as him wondering why Sakura wasn't on a pressure wagon that he wasn't even on. But, re-reading that and in the context of the rest of his play, it looks like he was wondering why she wasn't on it when Sakura had mentioned the importance of pressure wagons. Oh also Bo reached town status in Post 47 by making me giggle.

[Tammy]

oh

VOTE: havingfitz

[Tammy]

But blatantly disassociating yourself with your actions is, I would say.

How do you see that as Chen disassociating himself with an action?

[Lazurial]

He made his vote, but before he did, he was very insistent in making sure to say it wasn't his fault if something bad came of it. "I don't like to do this, but I will." That strikes me as an effort to make sure he can't be blamed later. I could be wrong, and I could be over thinking it, but that's my perspective.

[havingfitz]

I'll catch up in here tomorrow. Zzzzzzzzzz

[Does Bo Know]

Okay, UNVOTE: Mutleyddmc, firstly. I feel like the best way to read Mutley is not to question him directly. Just let him make his own votes, his own reasons, etc., and evaluate some of them based on flips.

That's not my point... that's my question to you wrt your take on their votes.

I don't find anything too odd about those votes, tbh. I feel like Sakura probably should've voted Bert or Laz if she wanted to get a pressure wagon started, but I really don't find that too important anymore. As I said, votes provide pressure, but if you don't do anything proactive about that pressure (after RVS), that strikes an issue with me.

Also, I actually went back and read Fitz's other things (when I'm on my phone, I usually only focus on questions asked to me directly), and I'm not finding Fitz's questions helpful for scumhunting. Asking her "what if she were scum" just seems like a dumb question.

87: I think the speed of the wagon is null too. I've seen all types of wagons build at this speed. Oh, and apparently Syryana got to post the Fitz thing before I did. Great.

Chenoan's 95 doesn't sit well with me either. Now he's keeping a vote on Mutley for pressure and not asking his own questions. He never truly outlined why he saw Mutley as scummy. His overall confusion also plays weird to me.

DAMMIT SYR QUIT SHARING THE SAME BRAIN CLOUD STORAGE SPACE. (96 about Chenoan)

108: @Sakura: Mind giving me the Laz scumread reason?

Tammy comes in and says the same stuff Syr did. Hey guys. We should be friends. AND SHE GIGGLED AT MY PLUG-IN THING I'm not even that funny.

113 makes some sense.

I'm torn between pressuring Chenoan or Fitz first...hm...

Let's get Fitz.

VOTE: havingfitz

I want to hear his thoughts on what Syr and Tammy have said first.

[Mutleyddmc]

Why do you think that about me DBK?

[Does Bo Know]

Because I feel like you normally take forever to question, as either alignment. I get a little frustrated when I keep trying to question you.

I feel like I'm channeling that frustration into a scum read, when I should probably just observe your play and let others try to question you and hope that they can interpret town and scum answers from you better than I can.

If that doesn't work, then I don't know what I'll do about you next.

[Mutleyddmc]

Kiss me?

[Sakura Hana]

Chenoan's vote doesn't bother me at all he did say "but" right after saying that he didnt like early wagons, didn't you notice that? He also specified a reason for voting him. Holding to little details to make accusations this early on gives me scub vibes on Lazurial

[Sakura Hana]

Woops i forgot to post the rest of my text, EDBWOP:

108: @Sakura: Mind giving me the Laz scumread reason?

On that same post you linked actually:

Chenoan's vote doesn't bother me at all he did say "but" right after saying that he didnt like early wagons, didn't you notice that? He also specified a reason for voting him.

Holding to little details to make accusations this early on gives me scub vibes on Lazurial

Unless you wanted me to elaborate on that.

[Does Bo Know]

Maybe I just don't see that as a scumtell because it reads to me as town. *Shrug*

What are your thoughts on Chenoan's posting thus far?

[Sakura Hana]

His posts seem Natural, tho he's still kind of nullish leaning town to me (the leaning town because of how i think they are natural) because he doesnt feel afraid to say what's on his mind, tho he's got a grand total of 4 posts and half of them are a good bunch of nothing so can't make anything other than that.

[Equinox]

Nachomamma8 has been prodded.

[havingfitz]

OK...catch up from my Post 81.
 
@Tierce...what "faulty logic" of mine was Sakura pointing out to me?  How about Sakura's faulty logic?
 
@Syryana...I didn't think the answers were acceptable/made sense...i.e. I didn't think they answered my questions.  Which apparently Sakura agreed with.  And btw...her second response was unacceptable as well.  She says she didn't want to risk a quicklynch and yet she had issue with me not adding to someone's wagon.  And as for her initial answer to the second question...it was not true...the very next vote after Sakura's first vote was by Chenoan who used a RV reason very similar to mine.  So Sakura's answers were poor and inaccurate.
 
@Syryana again...your "also reveals...scumhunting" look at Mutley is what I was referring to when I said he is capable of more contentful posts.  Which I said near the start of page 3.  I'm not expecting brilliant cases from anyone that early in the game.  As for who I suspect off Mutley's wagon...first hint would be who I'm voting.  It's still too early to tell who could possible be a 2nd (if there even is one).  I'm not a fan of Chenoan up to this point (who Sakura amusing defends later in the game) so he's a suspect.  They are all candidates at this point in the game. 
 
As for my questions that you quote from Post 71 and Post 73...they were asked to Sakura to prove a point on how absurd her "So speaking honestly is scummy" comment was.  Which I infer earlier in Post 71.  An admission that she would not confess to speaking dishonestly as scum (which she did not admit to) would show her baseless comment's uselessness.  I.e. everyone should be assumed to be speaking honestly unless they are scum who aren’t going to admit to speaking dishonestly.
 
@Syryana...so why are you voting me?  I think you need to change your Glade plug-in.
 
@Sakura...so you're getting "slight scum vibes" from me essentially because I am voting you with "little details" (aka reasons)?  Why would I drop my reasons for suspecting you?  Nothing has changed.  Is maintaining a continued suspicion on someone scummy?  As for the tunneling accusation...your attempt to implicate me back for my suspicions of you is laughable.  I'm still voting you because I suspect you the most.  If that changes...my vote will change.   
 

Okay so, I don't get fitz's suspicion of Sakura at all, but that's probably because I find fitz really suspicious and was wondering as I was reading along why no one else saw what I saw until Syryana came along and voiced some of the very thoughts I was thinking.

Well then see my responses above to Syryana.
 

The thing is fitz's vote with reasoning was awkward, and Sakura was asking the right question.  It wasn't about everyone else not joining a pressure wagon,

but why did fitz specifically go out of his way to vote someone who hadn't been voted already.

  I just can't believe a town!fitz wouldn't recognize that,

...my vote in RVS was an RVS vote.  Nothing more than that.  That was my random process for choosing who I voted.  And Sakura didn’t ask a question…she stated an observation in an accusatory manner that contradicted her very own actions.
 

and his going after Sakura and line of questioning just screams of going after an easy target.  For instance, Post 22 just comes across as

willfully misrepresenting

the situation to make an action look scummy that wasn't.

How am I misrepresenting anything?  You’re misrepresenting me by saying that.  Also…does anyone ever post in mafia against their will?  I.e. stupid accusation you “willfully” made.
 

The only thing that makes me wonder about Sakura is her moving to Nacho after basically being told she should in Post 23, but that's not really all that big a deal as

she doesn't look like nervous newbscum, but newbtown who's trying to figure things out.

  Oh also, the slight snarkiness in Post 26 warms my heart.

I’m glad Sakura warms your heart ….why does she not look nervous?  She gives a poor response to me that she admits to.  She uses not knowing how many it takes to lynch as an excuse for putting a second vote on someone (despite having just criticized me for not doing so) and when she realizes it take 7 instead of 5 to lynch…SHE PUTS A 4th VOTE ON NACHO!  So she was afraid to put a 2nd vote on anyone when she though it was 5 to lynch but has no problem (for no reasons other than “pressure” putting someone at L-3…which is what she would have been doing placing a 2nd vote on someone in a 9 person game.  Hello????
 

That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new.  And as fitz is not new, it just looks like he's being busy for the sake of it.

What’s laughable is that you do not realize why I asked them.  I answer the question above to Syryana but it should not need to be answered as the question shouldn't have been asked to begin with. It’s a lame excuse to cast suspicion on me.   Sakura made a baseless false accusation and I wanted to prove to her that is was baseless.
 

Why did you meta Mutley in particular?  Did you also meta Sakura?

Errrrrrrrr…..because I logged in yesterday and he was at L-2 early on page 3 which is ridiculous.  I wanted to see if he had any other games (scum or town) where he posted in a similar manner.  I only found two games (both town) and it appeared consistent IMO.  As I did not see any scum games his behavior in this game was at the very least null but in no way indicative of scum.  So is he scum?  Maybe.  Is he scum for the way he joked around and painfully dragged out people’s questions to him?  I do not think so.  And no…I didn’t meta Sakura.  I don’t typically use meta to find scum (unless it’s just something I recall about a person) and the only reason I did it with Mutley was because he seemed on the verge of a lynch. 
 

...had an early scum read on Bo based on what I think was an initial misinterpretation of Post 21 which I read as him wondering why Sakura wasn't on a pressure wagon that he wasn't even on.  But, re-reading that and in the context of the rest of his play,

it looks like he was wondering why she wasn't on it when Sakura had mentioned the importance of pressure wagons.

  Oh also Bo reached town status in Post 47 by making me giggle.

Glad you giggled…tee hee.  I hope my snarkiness warms you   So the bit in bold is the exact thing I started in on Sakura for.  Before DBK.  And he’s town for it.  Got it.
 

I feel like Sakura probably should've voted Bert or Laz if she wanted to get a pressure wagon started, but I really don't find that too important anymore. As I said, votes provide pressure, but if you don't do anything proactive about that pressure (after RVS), that strikes an issue with me.

Yeeeees…..brilliant.
 

Also, I actually went back and read Fitz's other things (when I'm on my phone, I usually only focus on questions asked to me directly), and I'm not finding Fitz's questions helpful for scumhunting. Asking her "what if she were scum" just seems like a dumb question.

It was to prove a point.  See responses to Syryana and Tammy for the same issue above.
 

87: I think the speed of the wagon is null too. I've seen all types of wagons build at this speed. Oh, and apparently Syryana got to post the Fitz thing before I did. Great.

I do not think a wagon going from zero to L-2 in a little over a page (35 posts) and in less than 4 hours is normal.  It screams mislynch wagon to me.  If it was later in the game and people’s suspicions were better founded…or there was some sort of mitigating evidence towards someone…sure…quicklynch away.  But in the early stages of D1?  No.  It is not null.  It might not be definitive but it is a lot stronger than null IMO.
 

I'm torn between pressuring Chenoan or Fitz first...hm...
Let's get Fitz.
VOTE: havingfitz
I want to hear his thoughts on what Syr and Tammy have said first.

Let’s pressure someone. (Oo oo…I’m under pressure…)
Let’s get Fitz (ie “get” me as in lynch me?  Or is that pressure?  To do what?)
Vote Fitz….
So when you say you want my thoughts first….to what does the first apply to?  Some action on your part?  My potential lynching?  :?