Open 501: Stacking the Deck of Power (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

Busy until tomorrow

[Nachomamma8]

UnknoWn

[Nachomamma8]

Tierce, you're probably town and Tammy is probably town because you're not lynching her.
Bert is town too despite being weird as fuck, probably. Add your easy townreads to the list and we'll have a ball around them. If we don't lynch all of the scum/I survive for more than 3 days, you can lynch me and I'll show you my poetry and my short stories and be crazy trolling town.

Vote: Syryana

I'm mostly trolling with this vote but fitz is sort of townish (although I haven't read him yet) so you can die by fire and flames, scumbag.

[Nachomamma8]

You boring lot.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Not nearly enough rejoicing about being town, and I would love for you to be scum this game.

Other than that tho, doesn't that relieve all pressure off him at this point?

Sakura townie.

Oh my god.

I hate early wagons. But what even. I don't. What.

VOTE: Mutley

If you are somehow actually town stop being so antagonistic and distracting everyone. This is absurd.

You're a little overdramatic.

Worst post of the game thus far. Completely defeats the point of a pressure vote if you call it a pressure vote.

booooooring

But blatantly disassociating yourself with your actions is, I would say.

Scum #2.

dragonfly replaces Bert. Thank you!

I called you town because I like you
I still think you are town, but now I miss you.

Tammy also bores me this game.

[Nachomamma8]

Chenoan, Syryana, and Lazurial. Syryananas, how many powerups did you give your team? Did you go with daytalk and the JOAT so you could take me out of the game and didn't have to go through a bodyguard?

[Nachomamma8]

As far as Havingfitz v Sakura Hana... I'm inclined to side with Hana. She's made arguments that make sense, but fitz keeps asking the same questions. I'm not entirely convinced though, because they way he's writing makes it look to me like he genuinely doesn't see her answers as fitting or complete.

Why is it one versus the other?

[Nachomamma8]

people who are attacking you could also be scum

[Nachomamma8]

I'll lead the wagon if you need me to. Just show me the scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll lead the wagon if you need me to. Just show me the scum.

Laz, who is the scum on your wagon?

[Nachomamma8]

(I'm not on your wagon)

I can't really make a case against the people who are claiming me scum. I'd rather try to hunt scum and hope it clears my name than spend time scrambling to defend myself and risk helping the scum win.

Why did you say this if you thought everyone who was calling you scum was actually town?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Lazurial

Now I'm on your wagon.

[Nachomamma8]

You don't deserve it if you're town. I don't deserve it if you're town. Work with me more so I can lynch my easy candy scumread.

[Nachomamma8]

I have no idea what to think about that. I do hate being boring.

troll tierce and fake a massively strong scumread on her?
that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna inspire her to a level of town play unlike anything she's ever felt before, then I'm going to fake lynch her and make her look town as shit. Then I will lynch Syryanas-scum and make him cry. Also not posting on sleeping pills helps a bit too.

Vote: Lazurial

sorry for breaking your rhythm buddy
just don't worry about me
i do my thing, i drift along
you just need to learn to not care about how people see you when town
see me? I'm fucking free
I'm a leaf on the wind, watch me soar

we'll teach you though

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Syryana

wow i suck sometimes

[Nachomamma8]

Nooooooooooooo, not my Bert!

i know i also felt fucking sad bro
and you're scum too

[Nachomamma8]

Talk to me, tell my why I'm scum

Tell my why fitz is town too while you're at it

you forgot to troll with me and you aren't paranoid of me at all

[Nachomamma8]

i was gonna troll you and call you scum
and you were gonna troll me and call me scum
then we were gonna be confirmed town together
i even crumbed it to you when i called you boring

[Nachomamma8]

you KNEW i was going to troll the hell out of this game while being obviously town
you fucking knew it

[Nachomamma8]

so you should be trolling back
or derping and calling me scum
not this lame fucking middleground where you're like "let's talk"

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho! So nice of you to join us. Talk to me about fitz!

AND WHAT THE HELL IS THIS
NO CRACKS ABOUT BEING DRUNK
BUT YOU WANTED ME TO CHAT ABOUT FITZ LIKE YOU HAVE A STRONG SCUMREAD ON HIM OR SOMETHING
AND YOU IGNORE THE FUCK OUT OF ME AND LAZ CHILLING
FORGET YOU MAN
I LOVED YOU
BUT YOU STABBED ME IN THE FUCKING HEART

[Nachomamma8]

lame
that was a very subpar troll
i guess we're gonna argue a lot when i lynch you

[Nachomamma8]

we BETTER
flex your scum muscles because you gotta get this awkwardness outta the scumplay

[Nachomamma8]

I have no idea what to think about that. I do hate being boring.

troll tierce

and fake a massively strong scumread on her?
that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna inspire her to a level of town play unlike anything she's ever felt before, then I'm going to fake lynch her and make her look town as shit.

This is complete bullshit and you know it. I don't need your help to look Town, tyvm.

Actual non-skimming catch-up after I eat something.

i'm winning this game already, tierce

[Nachomamma8]

I was using his term, as it was given to me.

What now? I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. He asked who was on my wagon. I assumed that just meant under the circumstances who all thought I was scum. You and dragonfly were vague about it, so I put 'I think.'

oooh
good work sakura
syryana still sucks at making jokes; Laz gets a point for making fun of me being gone

Vote: Syryana

our townie zealot over there gets townpoints for being easy to read, and i'm pretty sure we'll win this game if we kill everyone without a sense of humor except tierce and tammy who will read each other and get cozy and defend the shit out of each other
i fucking miss bert

[Nachomamma8]

generally when i lynch the hell out of scum syryana and then flip town that night, i'm town
but i haven't personally studied this one too much

[Nachomamma8]

what do you think of Syryana, Tierce? I can talk seriously about him if you give me some thoughts on him because I'm going to get bored of trolling eventually.

[Nachomamma8]

because bert chenoan syryana seems about right to me
bert had a weird opening in this game

[Nachomamma8]

bert had a weird opening in this game

town opening that I completely forgot
i'm taking out my sadness at him leaving on his slot and that's not ok

[Nachomamma8]

I just had three scum games in a row. I believe my words to Empire were "there is no god". So shush and let me enjoy my probably-all-too-brief reprieve from purgatory.

And talking about paranoia, I don't trust you with a ten-foot pole after #YOLOville, so you can cut the buddy-buddy act.

When you rolled town and Syryana rolled scum, this game became #COASTOville, so you can put up with me trolling you and enjoying my one time as town with you except for that Mini Normal. But more than that, Empire can enjoy me trolling you.

but I need more than something that might depend entirely on his mood. The only issue I have with his posts is how he doesn't seem paranoid of me, but he wasn't openly paranoid in Xylbot either (and apparently didn't have me as a Townread). Forgive me if I don't take his one post in CES's game as indicative of paranoia or lack thereof.

I can do this too!

[Nachomamma8]

DwD. I was Tyene Sand, Mr. Yo Mamma.

And now you're just being mean.

just know that empire is reading me as town and yelling at you to please just see the light and lynch syryana
but no
you made me make a case

Shall I roll out the red carpet?

that sounds flattering
you make me feel like a movie star, Tierce

I'll answer your nacho question when I can leave the corner get home from work tonight.

if you get paranoid, i'm trolling you too and this game will become a shitshow
if you troll with me, you can be replacement syryana and i will call you syrlicious

[Nachomamma8]

WAIT FITZ ARE YOU DOWN WITH LYNCHING SYRNANAS

[Nachomamma8]

fitz

[Nachomamma8]

WAIT FITZ ARE YOU DOWN WITH LYNCHING SYRNANAS

Idk...possibly. I've been so busy debating my suspicions of Sakura against the people voting me I haven't had a chance to think about others.

sakuras not scum and i don't give a shit about them
let's do this

[Nachomamma8]

The Former Syrnanas:

Worst post of the game thus far. Completely defeats the point of a pressure vote if you call it a pressure vote.

Mutley is a troll. Sometimes things he posts are a little lighthearted, random, light to handle. Syryana swung the fuck on that anti-town, hard to read post like a sledgehammer. Town Syryana would want to use opening posts to buddy a bit, troll a bit, do random aggro things and yell at people. But here he attacked a weak player, defended strong players and took two wallposts to do it.

Oh god, I was trying to forget about that game.

Good point on the quickhammer though, I don't think that two of the three not voting people will waltz in and derphammer like that game, but better safe than sorry.

Tierce he respects you as a player but not this much. He switched over so easily from this target he attacked SO VERY STRONGLY onto a suspect he moved onto before.

Tierce wall and Tammy wall are good walls.

Weak weak. Tammy's wall was pretty boring. Tierce's was not yet obvtown but it was OK I guess.

Nooooooooooooo, not my Bert!

Now you're here to spice up my life, I can't do it without you

I call him out for not trolling, he immediately starts trolling. Which is odd timing and he wasn't trolling in the same way he

could

.

Talk to me, tell my why I'm scum

Tell my why fitz is town too while you're at it

drops this when i ignore him and keeps trolling
he wanted to talk to me and i wasn't playing ball, so he appeases me?

You haven't done anything for me to get paranoid about, except where you're calling fitz town

nah.
nah. if he just didn't feel like trolling, it would mean we weren't on the same page because he was being weird.
and he would say "sorry nacho i wanted to have a cool towngame". instead, he called me paranoid but took absolutely zero position on me and that was boring, lame, scummy. The trend towards easy lynches wasn't good. I didn't like the transitions from easy lynch to sheeping Tierce without real interactions with her like "you're so amazing, Tierce!" or "Tierce, I really wish you were scum but you aren't so we'll have to deal with being town together" etc to trolling with Nacho. None of it has a thought process, and is mostly him just adapting to new threats that come by (first Tierce, then me).

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy's wall was pretty boring.

I try to be spicy but sometimes I'm just on fail mode.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

Call me boring again.

i listen to my own music while i post, thank you.
boring!
come play the game where we talk about our reads!

[Nachomamma8]

How about I play the Tammylicious game where I get some sleep tonight, pick my brain up off the floor, and deal with this tomorrow? Cuz that's what the card I just drew from the deck says.

you almost know the perfect way to my heart
almost.

[Nachomamma8]

Because you two are the only ones making sense.

This seems like a fairly strong basis for a townread; why did my case make it all melt away? What did you like about it?

Okay nvm. Tierce's argument in 127 makes a lot of sense. Hmmm...

But is it right? That's the question by which we guide our votes.

but I dunno how seriously to take that case because so. much. trolling. But it seems really logical and town-oriented.

So because I'm trolling elsewhere, you don't know how to take my other posts? Occasionally my trolling might be a little ambivalent, but when I'm pushing a case on someone by 10 you can regard it as serious. When I'm making fun of Tierce... probably not.

dependent on trusting my Nacho read which is also really weak.

So you think there's no possibility of us being scum together?

Fear not! Tammylicious is a drinking game.

<3
you're there

I had a catchup post

Then i decided to go to la parilla

You can have it later

prod dodge all you like but this isn't gonna cut it buster

[Nachomamma8]

It was a good wall.

What did she put in the wall that she couldn't do as scum?

Hmm.. where did you call me out for trolling again? #187? 187 > 184.

You're correct. But that was a little bit of trolling versus actual trolling later after my #189 - #192 posts.

How is this an appeasement?

After you asked why I was scumreading you and townreading fitz, I said some bullshit about you not trolling enough. Then, instead of following up on fitz-town, syryana-scum reads, you start trolling me as per my request. That's what I mean by appeasement.

Reading comprehension. I didn't call you paranoid; I said you hadn't done anything for me to be paranoid about.

"he said that i didn't do anything for him to be paranoid about" but took absolutely no position on me whatsoever. Sorry, that was from my tired days.

I'm pretty disappointed with you, old boy. Trending towards easy lynches? Tierce threatening me? My posts don't have a thought process? Really now. If you're going to chainsaw your mate fitz, at least do it properly. This just won't do.

You didn't properly defend yourself against any of those accusations, interestingly enough.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch me soar

Are you a leaf on the wind Nacho? Should we watch how you soar?

Could not help myself.

scum is probably going to kill me N1
but I'll soar for one, beautiful moment

[Nachomamma8]

Later tonight/tomorrow. I just finished watching this week's episode of Game of Thrones and... well.

^prod dodging scum

[Nachomamma8]

Because it was pretty obvious from my PoV that no one with half a brain would pretend to think there was just one scum in the game. Of the points you made, this one was a bad point.

I thought it was really cute that drunk-Tammy cared about this and nothing else.

Whats AtE?

Appeal to Emotion.

[Nachomamma8]

yeah it is

[Nachomamma8]

thank you!

[Nachomamma8]

I thought it was really cute that drunk-Tammy cared about this and nothing else.

Being 'cute' isn't any sort of read. So?

i don't find killers cute
what, do you think that I'm some sort of sicko?

[Nachomamma8]

actually you have some decent wall-content in the middle of your iso

forget the above

Welcome to the townpile, TSO!

Hmm ok nvm something DID happen, After re-reading, Chenoan and Syryana's posts increase my scumread on Laz and fitz respectively, I still like my vote where it is tho.

We are not clicking this game at all. What's going on?

[Nachomamma8]

What do you think of Syryana and my case on him?
What do you think of my problems with Chenoan's posts (do you want me to talk more about them)?
Thank you!

[Nachomamma8]

When reading your Chenoan case i was wonder what you meant by " but when I'm pushing a case on someone by 10 you can regard it as serious." the 10 is the page? or the number of posts made by you? or what?.

I was pointing out that it was strange that he used my trolling in order to say that he didn't know if my Syryana case was trolling or not. I thought that it should've been obvious when I was trolling and when I wasn't as far as things like that went as long as he read it, which he definitely claimed to do (since he bumped me up to a townread and bumped Syryana down to a scumread based on my case).

I'll get something clearer on Chenoan after I yell at Tammy.

You know what this game could use fewer of? Quote stripers. It's okay when there's one because

who reads what nacho writes anyway

I can follow along but my eyes start to glaze when there's several.

Only quote stripes you need to read are ones that are my cases on people and things addressed to you. If you read the rest, it's because you're trying to understand my thought process and I'm doing you a favor posting those. If it gets TOO bad, lemme know, but this is my usual posting style and it works out fantastically for me because I like forcing everything out in the open. I'm not as *mysterious* as CES, so I have to make compensations to keep up with his awesomeness. I will talk less when you're lynching my scumreads, though.

[Nachomamma8]

tammy i was planning on only trolling tierce but I can also troll you if you'd like
i know i deserve it for nightless, but

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA until Monday

I'll have a good post in between then; let's see if Tammy can beat me to making an actual post.

[Nachomamma8]

fuck

[Nachomamma8]

WHERE THE FUCK IS MY SYRYANA WAGON

[Nachomamma8]

@Syryana: His argument is that I've not been sticking hard to my conviction this game. It's entirely true. I've been somewhat flaky on my voting. Namely that I stopped trying to vote him the first time after I got no support. It doesn't necessarily fill out as a full scum read in my mind, but it's not wrong either.

He's flaky but he's fucking honest as shit. Have I seen newscum pull this off ever? Fuck no.

Questionable logic is one thing. Self-effacing behavior another--but now you're playing dumb.

What advantage does this post have as scum? Nothing. Nothing at all.

Pretty much exactly yes. How am I supposed to know when you're not joking? Certain parts didn't look like joking, but I don't know you very well so I could be misreading you.

generally when my posts are long and carry votes then their not joking
I'm not a jester; I'm still playing towards my wincondition.

At the moment I feel like either Nacho or Syr is scum, but I don't know which. If Nacho is scum, Fitz probably is too. If Syr is scum, fitz probably isn't. That's too much chaining for me to trust any of those wagons right now.

you're trying to create a fake false dichotomy and I hate it

Nuts. So much for analysis. Guess I'll have to resort to questions.

NOPE
Analysis. You're a tricky one, so I'm not going to let you slide so easily.

The town has been too focused on the newer and weaker players. I do not believe that the scum team consists entirely of Mutleyddmc, Lazurial and havingfitz. However, it seems as if both alignments are going after these same players. The more experienced players should know better, but their lists are nearly identical to the newer players. In the midst of all this, the scum players just blend right in. BTW, I tend to give the newer players a bit more slack (mostly because their behavior tends to trip me up).

My scumlist is SYRYANA and CHENOAN.
I'm not picking on the easy targets and FITZ is also another major point of focus. What game are you reading?

First off... look at you making useless (and actually false) remarks. Second: she took issue with you doing it DELIBERATELY. You have an issue with her because you think she was hypocritical? Hypocrisy isn't scummy. I think it's the third time I say so in this game (look at it right in the quote above, and you don't mention this stance as you keep going on that Sakura tirade). "But look, look, she did it too, why aren't you going after her?!"

If in your eyes, what you did isn't scummy, how come Sakura's actions are? Her reasoning makes no sense? How does her reasoning benefit scum?

Why is scumfitz pushing on Syryana so hard when you're calling him out for a shit case? I know why his reasoning is BAD, but it's fairly clear Sakura isn't going to be lynched at this point and he's had many chances to back down off his read. Why would he continue pushing Sakura and drawing your ire?

Nacho - Isn't part of your reasoning for scum reading Syryana that he wasn't joking with you? What do you make of this?

Remind me to show you Syryana and I trolling together sometime.
We recently got out of an awesome game with our opening as TROLL TROLL TROLL in a way that's just a tiny bit ambiguous to people so that it can be taken the wrong way. The idea behind the trolling is that scum respond strangely to trolling because they don't know how to handle irrational behavior from people perceived as good players (Chenoan). We ended up confirming a player as town and scumreading a scum because of said trolling; his trolling here is obvious, it's peacocking. He's just trying to show he's "relaxed"; it's nothing like the trolling I expect out of him.

emotional meltdown. So you know, that's your choice, but I think games are always much more pleasant for everyone when I'm not acting like a lunati

yeah you're no fun
take things too seriously

I did just look back to the nightless game in which I totally remembered it wrong thinking that he didn't catch scum syryana but he did I guess. He just never really gave any reasons.

My awareness of Syryana as town and scum has changed harshly now that we hydra together. I consider myself his mentor!

I seriously don't even know what to say at the moment. I feel a few days out of sync because of RL and I'm not even sure what the case on me is other than people don't think my suspicions of Sakura were warranted.

Tierce I'm going to kill you.

'm not voting him cause he's prickly. I'm voting him because he's doing his damnedest to paint Hana-san scummy (even with mountains of evidence she isn't), he's refusing to do any scumhunting or even consider other targets, his original "questions" on Hana-san had nothing to do with actually finding her alignment. The fitz I remember from Tenements at least gave thought to other possibilities, but this fitz here apparently doesn't give a damn.

He's tunneling like shit and you have scumNacho in the bush. Why aren't you afraid of me getting away?

There's that Syryana case that I need to go through more deeply.

Tierce I'm gonna kill you. You'll get more soon though.....

[Nachomamma8]

Here's some incentive to go read the Nacho case.

He says as he's not even voting me.

[Nachomamma8]

Cold feet.

UNVOTE: havingfitz

You still haven't talked about my case on Syryana and it's been a very, very long time.

Hugh should be though...stupid autocorrect

You haven't either.

[Nachomamma8]

Since Tierce loves walls so much...

Oh my god.

I hate early wagons. But what even. I don't. What.

VOTE: Mutley

If you are somehow actually town stop being so antagonistic and distracting everyone. This is absurd.

I've never been a fan of people who pull the "if you're town, stop being so crazy and distracting everyone!". There's always the hidden expectation behind it all that somehow their vote can change the person's behavior, but if it doesn't, hey. It was still a good lynch, right? Anyone can jump on a lynch like that, right?

He wasn't that high when I voted. Also his reactions merited a vote. I can't decide if he's deliberately trying to troll or not. I don't even.

This game is so scatter fire. I don't even know what's happening or why and I've read every post.

All this "I'm so confused, I don't know what's going on" schtick got old pretty quickly. And when Chenoan does find something to comment on, like... townreads on Syryana and DBK... no reasons. No reasons at all.

The reason I went with the early wagon this time is because it's not based on nothing. Mutley is acting really absurdly, and that deserves votes/pressure. However his reactions to that are even MORE confusing. I'm kind of at a loss right now, but he's still my strongest scum read.

"Mutley's actions are so confusing. So I added pressure."
"When I added pressure, his actions became more confusing."
"I have no idea what to do but he's still my strongest scumread."
When you apply pressure and the person gets more unreadable, then clearly the answer is to bring away pressure. There's also a complete and total lack to sort OUT those confusing actions, which is also a major problem.

Because you two are the only ones making sense.
And I thought I already did that? Mutleys actions were freaking absurd. And it was only page 4. So. Not a lot to go off other than that.

Currently the scumdar is (town - making sense. scum - confusing.).
Does that seem natural to anyone? Doesn't to me.

Nacho vs. syr. I don't. What. I'm assuming there's a bromanship there that I don't know about or something? o.o

This is how Chenoan responded to my original case on Syr.

Laz vs. Nacho is interesting. I really like Nacho's point in 177. Laz seems too eager to please and appease. Dislike.

This is how Chenoan responded to my interactions with Laz.

Kinda leaning town on Nacho a little bit based on the recent actual case against Syryana... but I dunno how seriously to take that case because so. much. trolling. But it seems really logical and town-oriented.

Which makes this seem like complete and total bullshit. If Chenoan couldn't tell when I was trolling or not, why did he think my case on Syryana was "logical and town oriented" but still couldn't tell whether I was trolling or not, but he could totally tell that my Laz case wasn't trolling? This inconsistency is strange and just seems like scumbuddy waffling on a read on a scumbuddy, especially considering that Syryana was a townread before my case came out because he was "making sense", but after... immediate scum lean.

It didn't melt ALL away. It's not like Syr is my top scumread. Also that was a lot of posts ago. Things change.

Response to the sudden change of reads is "things change", not really a compelling argument to me.

I feel like it might be. But I dunno for sure. Which is why I didn't base my vote on it.

Chenoan didn't base his vote on Tierce's fitz case because he didn't know for sure?
Because he totally knew for sure with that Laz vote, right?

Laz... I don't even. I can't tell if you're trying to WIFOM or do some sort of martyr defense. Neither is making me want to actually unvote you. Stop limping and actually scumhunt and maybe that will change. Right now it feelsl ike you're trying to AtE or at least drop beneath the radar enough to survive the night. Also, it's not slipping if you're actually town. It's only slipping if you're scum.

And again, starts sitting on that "oh yeah if you're town just step up your game and everything will be OK", which I'm not really liking. It doesn't feel like a reachout at all.

Neither Laz nor Fitz seem to be defending themselves very well. I'm still more comfortable with the Laz lynch, because my read on Fitz is so dependent on my reads on other players and I'm not totally confident in them yet.

This seems like he's just trying to distance himself from a mislynch. It's easy for him to hop on the havingfitz wagon whenever he pleases though since the Laz wagon sure as hell isn't going to go through.

[Nachomamma8]

It was a good wall. Besides, after Xylbot, I'm pretty confident I can get a read on you after a couple of Days.

One scumgame and suddenly Syryana can read Tierce in a couple days? And Tierce is fine with this?
Um... no.

I believe nothing is the problem.

This is the majority of Syryana's responses to cases against him. "Nothing is going on, everything is fine here." That's a bunch of bullshit and it shows he's not responding to people who suspect him, he's just dismissing them. When was the last time Syryana actually defended himself? Fucking never.

You said the Mutley wagon had scum on it. You never followed up.

When people say that a wagon has scum on it and there aren't followup, that's not a huge deal. Is it?

And now I'm swinging the sledgehammer on your buddy fitz.

Before he was trolling me, having a good time with me... now he has me and my partner pegged as scum. When did his read on me change?

Hmm.. where did you call me out for trolling again? #187? 187 > 184.

This is the ONLY post where he provides a legitimate defense.

Reading comprehension. I didn't call you paranoid; I said you hadn't done anything for me to be paranoid about.

That's funny since he's now touting a pretty strong scumread on me.

I'm pretty disappointed with you, old boy. Trending towards easy lynches? Tierce threatening me? My posts don't have a thought process? Really now. If you're going to chainsaw your mate fitz, at least do it properly. This just won't do.

"Oh, you're making points? Not good enough."
Where is Syryana's case on me? That I'm protecting fitz by attacking him?
Talk about something that "just won't do".

No idea, never seen scum Tammy.

Never seen scum Tammy, zero paranoia.
Wonderful.

So, you make it clear you're not going to talk to me about things, then I give up and start trolling you, it's appeasement?

I was crying that you weren't trolling with things and ignoring your more significant questions.
When I did that, you started trolling and appeasing me.

I defended myself against every accusation that had a basis in fact.

Discrediting the arguments that apparently are so horrible but he hasn't tried very hard to actually debunk this whole damn game.

[Nachomamma8]

And I've been waiting for Tierce to do something interesting, and that's unfortunate. I've reached out to her and Tammy from early on to see if we can work together; Tammy's town as fuck and no one should ever touch her, but Tierce... not so much.

Because I want to meta Mutley before anything else happens, and I'm on my phone. We're both out of a game in which someone was lynched on page 1, and in the last Newbie game I modded someone self-hammered as Town on page 4. I'm sure you'll empathize with me when I say I don't want yet another quickhammer.

Hint: He's always this trolly.

havingfitz, I see your question, will answer when not on my phone. The short version is that Sakura Hana wasn't calling you scum, just pointing out faulty logic from you.

UNVOTE: Mutleyddmc

But this unvote is a problem. When I haven't been town in a while, I'm more aggressive than I usually am. I'm active, I'm posting, and I'm forming my town block and I'm making things happen. The fact that she's willing to unvote on Mutley and just sort of sit there is horrible. In #YOLOVILLE, she pulled out an unvote without a revote a SINGLE FUCKING TIME. Do you want to know why that was? Because Llamarble promised to towninate and she wanted to see him do his thing. In Xylbot Mafia, she barely voted. She voted so little that I didn't know if it was a game mechanic, or what. But this thing that is easy to see (weird unvotes without revotes) shows something more interesting: she's not working with scumteams, she doesn't have multiple suspects and she's PERFECTLY OKAY WITH THAT. She pushed the mutley lynch until it feels too easy, pushing the fitz lynch until it is too easy. She's ignoring me completely because she "won't be able to figure me out on D1", which is seriously a problem because I am telling her I know how to read Syryana and her answer is "meh. tomorrow." She's dancing around the Syryana lynch like a ballerina, and that's not a beautiful thing.

There's that Syryana case that I need to go through more deeply. But Nachoooo it's three days to deadline and havingfitz is doing some very very lovely prod-dodging and oh-god-I-don't-even-know-why-they-be-voting-me-help-help and I don't Trollyana to become a distraction when havingfitz cannot be bothered to muster the strength to scumhunt him.

And this is a gorgeous post.
She's afraid to look into Syryana because havingfitz is... prod-dodging?
Are you kidding me?

[Nachomamma8]

I mean, Tierce. I tried my BEST to reach out to you this game. I really, really did. I was excited to finally be town while you rolled town, not a particularly difficult town to figure out, just another town win and my back pocket and being able to finally, finally, finally play a town game with you. And yes, you can't read me Day 1 (apparently), and you're paranoid after YOLOVILLE because I made a post that was big enough for you to think it was being scum. Tammy has similar feelings; she's also a little paranoid of me, also isn't confident of being able to read me until something like Day 3. But she's still working with me. She's still paying attention to me when I'm like "hey, I can read this person and they are scum" instead of going "I see what you're doing but I'm not even going to sideways glance at the person you think you can read". Hell, you're not even COMMENTING on that.

But hey, that I could forgive. I began the game a little bit trolly, a little bit aggressive. Something strange from me on D1 that you folks aren't used to. And I've been watching your pushes, and your pushes are on... Fitz, Laz, Mutley. You're acting a little paranoid of Tammy for not posting enough, OK, but you also didn't read her as town until long after I did. Why is that? You've gotten into a Thor-level slapfight with havingfitz where you're trapped in the argument and am completely convinced that your argument is correct; you're not that type of player. Your unvotes have no progression, no followup, nothing; I keep looking for doubt in your wallposts but I see nothing, absolutely nothing. Only one post that gives you cold feet that you don't even care to explain.

The actual case? It sucks. You accused Fitz of tunneling beyond belief on Sakura, then began tunneling beyond belief on fitz. You accuse him of not following up, which is fine as a supplement but is something that's more like suboptimal town play as opposed to actual scumplay. You accused him of sidestepping the Mutley wagon after he said it was going too fast for his comfort (what?), calling him "prickly" which is somehow strange for him (what?), you rag on him for not catching onto sarcasm, for finding Sakura scummy when he's doing similar things, for hiding from you... Fitz's confusion with dealing with your case is genuine because your case actually just

sucks

. Every time I check into this thread, I expect to be blown away by you and all I get are these horrible, horrible gifts of death-tunneling in return. Where is your commentary on Sakura, who you have been white knighting the hell out of against Fitz? Do you have a townread on dragonfly from the way he's handled you so far? Because you should. What is your read on TSO, or do you just plan to fencesit on him until Tammy/I are out of the game and you can start tunneling on the newbies without fear? Is your townread seriously because you don't think Chenoan would say the words "I don't know what to post" as newscum?

Tammy's disconnection from the game is good, it's genuine... She's trying to get in people's heads, understand them.
You haven't come close to that this entire game and I have no idea why.
I'm mostly sure you're scum at this point, but I'm ready to listen. Post some actual content, Tierce.

[Nachomamma8]

I want more than "I can't read either of them without flips". You want flips? Lynch one of us.

[Nachomamma8]

To explain things a bit: I am still quite bitter about havingfitz, and I think it's showing in this game. I've only been mislynched twice as Town and he was the scum who was to blame for the second one. I really really really want to get back at the bastard who did this to me--and this seemed like the perfect chance. He was acting similarly to Micro 89 and being dodgy and slow and--god, kill it now. Only it's not. I went back to that game and it doesn't really match the sort of attitude/behavior/intent/what have you he's showing here, and even the post formats are different. He's much more natural-flowing in this game. And while I don't care that he's pushing on obvTown who will never be lynched, I've seen scum do that--he's not trying to turn the case around on the people who made it. It's obvious he has me as a Townread and is not trying to paint me negatively for thinking he's scum.

I'll have my revenge yet, but it's probably not this game. (>")>


<-- Bitter Party Mogget is bitter. Ish.

Forgive me and my gross simplification which is sure to come up but it's going to take my heart a while to open up again: You think you're overaggressively tunneling on him because he mislynched you as scum once? I can see that as reason for being a little overly paranoid, but your push on him was a bit more than overly town paranoid mostly because you didn't really look anywhere else in any significant way during your push on fitz. There was a question here and there, but it wasn't so interesting.

[Nachomamma8]

No, that's not the reason for the overaggressiveness itself; that's actual strategy. I look into other people, but I used to try to push other wagons at once; you'll notice I didn't actually push on Lazurial at the same time. That's deliberate, would be easy for scum to latch on to alternative wagons and cause my main lynchwagon to flounder before the end of the Day. I think it was around Dresdenafia that I realized that I shouldn't give an inch of space to my main scumread. I go all "oooooh shiny" and then have people --> over there accusing me of being on all the wagons and all the lynches when that's kind of what I do because it ain't a wagon party till I'm there.

OK. But that doesn't explain why you're not going full gear into other wagons when you get cold feet with one. Is there a reason you've mechanically backed off both players you've pushed this game?

[Nachomamma8]

I've caught scum who were doing that, but they were more experienced than Chenoan and had no excuse. It seems a pretty natural behavior for newish players, as they are trying to find something they relate to--if they can put themselves in the other player's head, it's because they are Town. It's just not going the extra step of "would things still make sense from that PoV if I was player X".

And as a newbie when you are unsure of these reads, you don't immediately swap from one player's side to the other. When one player is making since and is town but then ANOTHER player who was making sense and is town calls them scum in a well-reasoned way, there is doubt. There is confusion. There wasn't that confusion here; the transition was instant. For icing on that cake, Chenoan made this transition based on someone he did NOT understand, could not relate to and showed no work in between. That's not newbies having trouble getting into the game; that's scumfuck bullshittery.

While we're talking about Chenoan, Nacho--how is his honesty (when he's clearly freezing up) more in doubt than Lazurial's? You're an IC, you've seen plenty of newbTown being completely at odds with the game and unable to grab it by the horns. Usually they flake out, which is probably going to happen. For example, this:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
I know you won't read that, but this is an earlier game of Chenoan's. There is no complaining of being lost, no "oh man I hate RVS" or constant confusion. Chenoan isn't that sort of player, was vocal and made some great posts that game. The Chenoan here is a different beast.

Link fixed. (Equinox)

[Nachomamma8]

link?

[Nachomamma8]

Lazurial on the other hand, none of those same inconsistencies. The idea of being afraid to push something if it didn't have support is NOT something scum would vocalize, and the fact that he gets scared about pushing a read when the wagon on it disintegrates is perfectly consistent with that mindset. He has small bits of paranoia that make sense ("...although I'm a little suspicious of Tierc for accusing me of making an argument I said I wasn't many times..."), he talks about getting frustrated because his case isn't getting headway in the ways he wants it to and yet keeps trying it anyways, getting turned off and confused by my aggression. Even the bits where he's completely lost make sense; he's still around, he acknowledges people make pretty cases against him and has no idea what to say, and yeah he stumbled and bumbled the fuck over his words but his explanations are reasonable as hell and make perfect sense with his play and I've never met a newbie that is so bad with pressure but so good with the recovery from it.

[Nachomamma8]

Where is that quote of chens Tierce. Is it from another game cos you are confusing me

It's from the game I linked earlier.

And Tierce, that's all good and well, but I sort of hoped you'd bring something more interesting to the table. I guess I'll just keep reading your scumgames while I impatiently wait for Christmas morning... Don't bring me socks, Tierce. Bring me glory.

[Nachomamma8]

(That case was opening up a dialogue with him. The more recent case in #447 is the more interesting one.)

[Nachomamma8]

But I don't think he "swung on it like a sledgehammer". I agree with him that it removes the pressure, but I don't think Syryana was calling Mutley scum from it?

There's a double wallpost doing nothing more than attacking Mutley, with some bonus attacks in the third wallpost. That qualifies as an attack in my book, definitely. Discerning his reasons for the vote itself might be difficult because it's mostly bullshit.

"Moved onto before" what? havingfitz was one of his suspects, Mutley was another, he was shifting wagons from L-1 to not L-1.

Moved on before as in attacked a little bit before. You said "I'm uncomfortable with quickhammers", he immediately agreed and hopped the fuck off. He wasn't afraid of the speed of the wagon before, why would he be afraid of it just because you brought up a game he also remembers? It seems strange he'd forget something like that.

He didn't open Zachyard with trolling, and other than Bert and you, I don't think this playerlist is the trolling/circlejerk kind. He started trolling with you because he admires and likes you and it was the opportunity he had. What do you mean by trolling "in the same way he could"?

We trolled hard in Popcorn because we were excited as fuck for that game and hoping to roll scum so we could fight against the odds. In this game, we talked about how excited we were to play with Tierce and Tammy and Empire (who sucks), but the Syryana that entered the game was clearly all business. Scumgame is a little less trolly than his town game at the moment because the scumgame takes more work, so the fact that he lost that light-heartedness was a big nasty red flag.

Asking for you to explain your reads is not appeasement.

yeah this point sucks

The easy lynches thing would be a good point later in the game; not at this point. Mutley is an easy lynch (I believe I said so), but havingfitz isn't, and he changed from an easy lynch to a harder one.

It was an easy lynch and an easy attack, and the one he intended to stay with until you got skeevy about quickhammers. Fitz, harder target, but he didn't go after him that hard, compared to that attack on Mutley.

[Nachomamma8]

Everyone should be voting Chen

You aren't voting Chen.
You also aren't voting for Syryana. What's going on?

[Nachomamma8]

Out of context. He was saying that havingfitz doing 'nothing' was the problem And considering your case in Post 235, I kind of agree with not bothering to defend himself until this point.

I have the tendency to attack the fuck out of people who know me when they throw out shitty cases. Sometimes I chuckle a bit because it's so paranoid, so town, but being dismissive doesn't seem like a natural response.

This is a terrible point. Why should he immediately be paranoid? I know that Syryana has/had a thing against people being too Town (on D1! That was ridiculous and I am still kind of annoyed, rrf), but I don't think that he should be immediately paranoid of Tammy because she made a wall he read as Town. Sheesh. The tinfoil kingdom is mine, tyvm.

It's the whole looking at the wall, declaring it town because wall and then not really having any reasoning or not really giving a shit on why it's town that got me. The walls weren't that impressive, that important, they were just there. Syryana isn't familiar enough with either of you to make a declaration like that.

[Nachomamma8]

Chenoan next. Nacho I hope you appreciate me doing this instead of Minecrafting.

I'm considerably happier with what's been going on! I feel a lot better than I did about you 2 hours ago, and that's a great feeling because it means the dream is still alive. And if I can see you as town, I can see Rufflig as scum. I think that him going for the whole "town is going for easy lynches in fitz, Laz, and Chenoan" and then his first real suspect is... TSO threw up a lot of red flags (for not giving cases on his reads????). I think that his dismissal of Tammy's townread on me was strange because sure, I can fake emotions, but there was a lot more to get out of that series of posts than Tammy's townread on me. He's also interesting, considering he's given reads before he started reading, but no real reads afterwards.

So the last question is your guess on Rufflig because he's my guess for last scum. If he's not it, something weird is going on.

Thanks for putting up with me so long!
I do see the time you put in today and I really, really needed it.

[Nachomamma8]

There are many eyes on the same set of individuals. I don't have to pay them so much mind because so many others are doing it for me. That frees me to look for scum elsewhere. You can thank me later.

But the whole point of things like this are for you to engage with us and let us know if you think we're on the right track or not so we can read you. You're not so trusted where your opinion on leading wagons isn't expected and valued.

You have a scum read on Syryana. Syryana wasn't under any real suspicion at the time. Did you just bury that scum read, never mention it and not go after Syryana? Nope. You put out a crappy case on Syryana and started pursuing him. Compare that to T S O and tell me that his reads are genuine! Hell compare it to Lazurial, if you're so inclined.

I am an experienced player; T S O is not. Sometimes players don't have the confidence to push their reads.

so far, I get the feeling one of fitz/Tammy is scum and right now I'd say fitz moreso.

Why do you get this feeling?

VOTE: TSO

dog liked you bowl man

This wagon also probably isn't happening today. I liked it more when you were voting Syr or Mac.

I think the thing that rubs me the weirdest is that I'm not even close to the only one hashing out the argument with fitz, yet I'm the one that it's categorized as not town v town. I *might* be a little self-absorbed though.

yeah that was weird as fuck

[Nachomamma8]

Fitz more likely seems like one last ditch effort to save the slot IMO

I seriously, seriously doubt that.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, so there is literally no explanation given on Syryana's Nacho scumread. I originally though that #401 was asking me to go read Nacho's case on Syryana (which was already confusing), but it's doing the reverse--and there is no case anywhere.

Yup.

I'm stumped here, though. Doesn't seem to make much sense to push a wagon on a buddy if you're not on it. He couldn't have known that Lazurial's push on Chenoan would just melt away when it met some pressure.

I don't think that he expected that comment to inspire Laz to make a stunning case against Chenoan; it looked odd to me because Syryana never helped Laz out with the Chenoan push. Instead, Laz made his push and the most Syryana did was tell him that he wasn't suspecting Chenoan for the right reasons.

But I'm mostly interested in hearing Syryana's answers to the case against him because he's been completely silent for a while.

[Nachomamma8]

So, I just read the the nacho/syryana hydra in the popcorn game as tierce mentioned it. Is that the trolling your talking about nacho

Yes.

[Nachomamma8]

Nachomamma8: Have I looked at all enthused about our leading wagons?

I wouldn't know because all we have from you is that case on TSO.

Of course I don't think that you are on the right track. I'll state right now that my suspicions of you are growing fairly rapidly since you keep trying to portray some fairly obvious town reads as scum with lousy cases. I won't vote for Syryana. I'm not voting for Tierce and I'm not voting for Chenoan/Mac, either.

I'm assuming you mean Tierce and not Syryana/Chenoan. Although I would love to hear your reasons for them being "fairly obvious town"!

I might compromise on havingfitz's slot, even though there is no real case on him - a lot of the suspicion on his slot seems to be based on how he rubs people the wrong way rather than any actual scummy behavior or possible scummy motives.

He's a townread for me.

When are you going to step up your game, Nachomamma8? I know you can read people, but this game it looks like you aren't even trying.

It's stepped up when people dance with me. Stop taking potshots and vote me so I understand where the hell you are coming from.

[Nachomamma8]

To put it bluntly, Nachomamma8. you have no town reads! Every time a player starts getting to be thought of as a bit town, you find a way to try and muddy the waters on that player with a crappy case. You seem to be actively working against the town to try and keep all possible mislynch options open.

Tierce, Tammy, Lazurial, havingfitz, Mutley are all pretty solid townreads for me. dragonfly, Sakura Hana, and TSO are second tier townreads. My scumreads are you, Syryana, and Mac. What do you think of Tierce's input on the Syryana case?

[Nachomamma8]

Any town read you have on T S O's slot came from his predecessor. You've not gone back and reevaluated it. This is pretty surprising since you've played with T S O before. He should be sticking out to you like a sore thumb. You're trying to tell me that this is town T S O? Pathetic! If you want to dance with me at least come up with some decent music.

I have played with him before and I find him town based on his play this game. Why do you profess yourself to be a better expert on him than I? Because speaking of cases that sucked...

However, the short answer is that case wasn't compelling.

Now this is awesome because you keep dismissing things because they aren't compelling enough, while what you've produced is approximately one T S O case. Can you explain why these things aren't compelling? Can you actually address cases instead of just dismissing them and expecting your dismissals to hold any weight? Step it up Ruffy! Big words and little action make for a pretty easy to ignore combination, and I'm afraid your voice is being drowned out by people who are actually doing things.

EBWOP:

ignore nacho in the null pile of my explanations, I forgot to change that as I was reading.

Are you done reading yet?

TSO, who said that anger was a scum tell of fitz's?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm so excited to see Syryana's posting because he comes back from V/LA today!
Hopefully.

[Nachomamma8]

No.

[Nachomamma8]

You aren't even to link ongoing games that you're both dead in.

[Nachomamma8]

as in you've read through the whole game?

[Nachomamma8]

Then what do you think of the Syryana/me debacle? I'm fairly confident that I can read him and that he is scum. I do not think that fitz is scum, especially considering the replace-out from sheer frustration (explains the extra prickliness), and I don't think that Laz is scum. So you'll need to sell me on those two reads because I don't really think you have already.

[Nachomamma8]

fitz is being awkward and overly aggressive I feel. the awkwardness in particular just feels off, there's two times now (the "no one posts on here unwillingly" and then the "how you remember X about that game if you say it was eaten by tigers?") and I just feel it's becoming deliberate. maybe this is his playstyle (if it is, please speak up) but I just don't really like his attitude, doesn't seem like he's town-motivated at all.

I really don't know how a gut read ends up your strongest scumread, especially if all you have is "awkwardness". He does pick up on strange things sometimes, but it really doesn't seem like he's using that awkwardness to hammer through lynches at all.

Laz is really appeasing, like admitting he's scummy and that he can't defend himself. just seems like he's the complete opposite of fitz; one is being aggressive and awkward and Laz is just coasting along agreeing with everyone. it doesn't sit right with me and his inability to defend himself or agreeing that scum cases on him are good just seems strange.

He's also a newbie, so not being able to play up to a certain level is pretty normal.

[Nachomamma8]

So, you don't think that fitz basically replaced out because he needed an excuse to? Even if I was getting lynched I wouldn't flake on one light troll, given it wasn't even close to believable.

Hell no. I don't think fitz is such a massive baby that he would replace out because people pegged him as scum for reasons he didn't like. I do think that if he got seriously frustrated in a game early as town because people were hammering on him for stupid reasons that he might replace out.

[Nachomamma8]

yes but there is no need to be delibrate and awkward as town. those 2 quotes in the brackets were so pedantic it was ridiculous, is fitz like that? to be fair he's not particularly pushing for a lynch with it but his response to Tammy wrt to both of those quotes just seems over defensive. I also feel the whole 'mutley day cop' scandal felt fake & forced to seem town. several people beforehand ignored the claim yet fitz felt the need to bring it up with a massive speech to stop the possible cop claiming, like they would counter claim?

There's no real reason to be deliberate and awkward as scum either. The day cop scandal seeming forced is pretty boring. Most people didn't fall for it, fitz fell for it and then replaced out because he was frustrated that mutley was trolling in the way he was.

yes but the fact is Laz has offered zero defence of himself. and instead has countered with "yes I do look scummy, that's a good case, there's nothing I can do." there was also a quote, from memory #164? where it felt fake, I asked him how much experience he had after it. think it was 2 newbie games and I got the feeling it was a quote he'd heard in a newbie game and decided to use it here in order to seem town motivated.

Newbies being unsure of defending themselves is pretty normal. The second bit is an incredible stretch that I'm not even going to address it.

in 492, fitz was under heavy pressure and eventually lynched (flipping town) and didn't flake. I don't feel the town motivation behind rage quitting.

What's the scum motivation?

[Nachomamma8]

-Appeasing you
-Lack of doubt
-Quick read changing

-Awkward opening
-Going hard after an easy target and not seeing the obvious signs of trolling, then immediately switching off the easy target when Tierce told him to
-"You didn't do anything for me to paranoid" --> "You're chainsawing your buddy fitz"
-Tells Tierce to read a Nacho case, didn't make a Nacho case
-Didn't care about the responses to the case against him

[Nachomamma8]

the game

[Nachomamma8]

Quite a contrast, huh?

"I haven't been doing all that much" after being accused of not doing anything is a far cry from "I'm so confused, I don't know what's going on".

Why should I be defending Syryana or Machenoan? Neither of them is in imminent danger of being lynched.

Because it's getting close to deadline and they are people that the fitz wagon could swing on to.

However, his purpose was clearly to attack you and not to defend havingfitz.

So unless I'm solely defending havingfitz, nothing I do in defense of him counts? Why does it matter if that wasn't the primary purpose?

[Nachomamma8]

Fitz's replace out was town.

I agree! Can we lynch Syryana now?

[Nachomamma8]

TAMMY
I'm waiting on you before I go to sleep since I won't have nearly this much time tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

Also having major doubts on Rufflig. Not sure who would fill the lucky #3 spot.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, will you be around at midnight PST or thereabouts?

Sure, but I won't be around long after that.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll wait for you to get back. I've been meaning to watch the new episodes of Hannibal anyways.

[Nachomamma8]

maybe Tammy can post more things while I wait...?

[Nachomamma8]

pedit: Nacho. I've clearly forgotten how to post an image, but it's of a smilie flipping you off with both hands.

I feel like you're a much faster typist when drunk.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay people I feel pretty confident in as town: Nacho, Tierce, Sakura Hana, TSO and sadly Fitz's slot.

Why TSO?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho - you caught Mac in Poetic Justice mafia, do you see similarities here?

Sure. But the real similarities will be found when he actually tried to start doing things, which he hasn't yet.

Nacho - you were waiting for me to post but you're not around.

Game of thrones.

[Nachomamma8]

It really is.

[Nachomamma8]

Tierce if you don't come back soon I'm going to have some horrible horrible nightmares.

[Nachomamma8]

My brain is currently mostly OMG STAR TREK WAS AWESOME, but if there are things you want to ask, I'm on my phone until I lose internet connection on the mountain pass.

The thing I want to talk about most is Rufflig.

[Nachomamma8]

PEdit: Hai. I've barely started there and was hoping to not have to do it tonight but you're going to be mean again, aren't you?

Yup.

[Nachomamma8]

This bothered me there, and bothers me now. This was a misrepresentation, it has been pointed out to you, and you have yet to acknowledge that it doesn't work. Same for the "he's not defending his Townread havingfitz". Why are you stacking your Nacho scumread on things that are not true?

I have no idea what he expects to accomplish with something like this. All in all, the whole "I won't defend Syryana and Chenoan because neither of them are close to death but Nacho needs to start hauling ass to prove himself to me" felt strange because it was patently false and pretty easily provable as patently false.

TSO are second tier townreads

Any town read you have on T S O's slot came from his predecessor. You've not gone back and reevaluated it. This is pretty surprising since you've played with T S O before. He should be sticking out to you like a sore thumb. You're trying to tell me that this is town T S O? Pathetic! If you want to dance with me at least come up with some decent music.

This aggressive attack on me for not reading TSO right, saying that I was "only reading his predecessor" and it wasn't town TSO and I should know better also was weird to me, considering that as far as I can tell Rufflig's never played with TSO before.

Why should I be defending Syryana or Machenoan? Neither of them is in imminent danger of being lynched. Isn't my stating that I think they are town sufficient in this case? When my scum read or any scum gets lynched, then I'll start making cases based on associative tells. If I can't make a case on someone without needing a scum flip to prove it, then I usually won't. Generally, the most I'll do is note a possible association for players to look at if and only if my scum read gets lynched and flips scum.

This in and of itself is weird because the case on those two wasn't solely associative tells.

The second was I didn't think anyone really cared enough about the argument, but I'll share my thoughts on it a little later tonight. It's past time for dinner.

He didn't think anyone cared? But just earlier he was talking about how he wasn't talking about the main wagons that much because people already had eyes on them... So the point of having eyes on other people that aren't main wagons is to bring new things to the table, which doesn't work if he doesn't share because he doesn't think anyone cared.

[Nachomamma8]

I won't trod on your heart.
Not after I went all paranoid on you and made you post a bunch.

[Nachomamma8]

hi tammy.

[Nachomamma8]

Syryana claiming a PR, just like I taught him.
But the fact that he claimed and then absolutely disappeared? Complete and total bullshit.
I'm wondering if lynching PR claims in this setup is optimal. I feel not, but I know that he's scum and I hope that you don't let him get far based on a bullshit claim at all.

[Nachomamma8]

No. I just got done watching Hannibal.

[Nachomamma8]

hell yes that's what I'm thinking
but I want to catch up, think about this

[Nachomamma8]

There's scum motive, but there's no Town motive other than failing to see it--but he did see it because he says you attacked me, so...?

Scum motive is protect his buddies, discredit me a little bit. I also wonder if he's trying to reach out to one of them, but I don't really think there's a reason to if he's a traitor, so that's why Rufflig is an unsure read for me right now. I don't have any scumreads to replace him, but it's still all just strange and I don't like it.

The Rufflig is focusing on the wrong things in regards to that difference in tone to dismiss that game as usable meta. Chenoan may have felt lost in the other game, but wasn't pushing that card left and right as he was here. THAT is what strikes me as out of place with Chenoan individually.

I thought it was a blatantly scum tactic to take the quote of Chenoan feeling the same in that game and ignoring the difference of Chenoan's play in general; his mind was already made up before he clicked that link.

Because I read it. Anyone who reads it will see the same thing. Anything who played that game should already know that he is not playing the same here. In that game, he was volunteering information and scum hunting. Here, you have to drag things out of him and even then you get unusable answers from him.

I think that you'll read the game that TSO and I was in, you'll see that he wasn't "volunteering information and scumhunting"; he's occasionally a bit of an enigma at times, but every time he isn't being perfectly helpful doesn't mean that he's scum. You know that.

I've got my own read on Syryana based on meta - he's town!

Then you can explain yours because I certainly explained mine!

being unsure? yes. being totally passive? strange. possibly, but that's just my gut feeling.

That describes your predecessor a hell of a lot better than it describes Laz.

Okay you know what's bothering me about Rufflig, other than some of the things Nacho and Tierce discussed last night? I feel ignored. I hate that. When I gave Nacho a town read based on his posts on page 18, he just popped in to dismiss it with a "Nacho can fake those emotions."

He's ignoring things that I KNOW that he would see as town. I occasionally do that as scum because I know I can get away with it, but I don't know why Rufflig is ignoring so much of the game.

You can pat me on the back and say good job tammy too...that'd be nice.

good job Tammy!

[Nachomamma8]

So here's the thing: We have a claimed PR who is scummy as fuck and someone who will not be around near deadline who we mostly feel pretty good about. He is unclaimed, so he still isn't a "safe" lynch. I think that if we're taking a risk in lynching someone, it should be on Syryana. Where the fuck did he go? He should still be around; I know that he didn't have just 5 minutes to say "fuck you guys for lynching me I have an awesome role" and just leave. Hell no.

[Nachomamma8]

I know that I didn't go into great detail at all, but I'd like it if you commented on his differences in his scum play previously and what you're seeing here.

In Nightless, his scum play was pretty good until he realized he was going to be lynched no matter what he did. Then he shut down completely, stopped posting, disappeared; couldn't follow up. His play in Tenements was nice because he didn't come under pressure, he didn't feel the heat as scum. He just sort of died. This is exactly what's happening here; he started out sort of strong, then I started being aggressive with him, I started throwing my weight around, I started shutting down. The fact that he hasn't appealed to the person who is pretending to know how to read him while they are lynching the fuck out of him is a tell-tale sign of him resigning, he's just trying to fish out a PR as he's going down.

[Nachomamma8]

NOTSCIENCE

[Nachomamma8]

I think Fitz would have claimed if he was a role. Now this is just based on experimental, in which he claimed kind of early and his claim is where we basically had a chance at winning the game. I don't know why Rufflig thinks he's a weaker player.

Then I guess we'll lynch Fitz if notscience doesn't show before deadline.

[Nachomamma8]

I can see you being a troublemaker in kindergarten. You seem like the girl who knocked my lego tower down and laughed at me in day care.

[Nachomamma8]

23 minutes... I guess I'll be back in like 15.

[Nachomamma8]

Apparently I stole my neighbor's bike because he was too afraid to ride it without the training wheels,

you were either a little daredevil or a very unorthodox life coach

pedit: NOTSCIENCE VOTE SYRYANA

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy? You still alive?

[Nachomamma8]

MUTLEY

[Nachomamma8]

Cos he wasn't a PR.

so u chose scum???
:'(

[Nachomamma8]

I think Tammy played a spectacular game.

yeah tammy played crazily although tierce certainly carried her weight.
i'm curious if i would've managed to catch onto tierce a second day, though. probably definitely wouldn't have caught tammy.