Open 501: Stacking the Deck of Power (Game Over)

[Syryana]

VOTE: Nacho

RVS wagon hooooooooo

[Syryana]

I'm so lonely on the Nacho wagon...

Let's see.

Actually it does havingfitz, maybe you should re-read them.

Actually it doesn't.

It looks like they were answered to me.

Spoiler: Spoiler'd

Then why didn't you vote Bert or Lazurial to "pressure" them?

Because I didn't think everyone would end up voting different people

And why not question the three voters after you who started new wagons?

you are the only one who said that wanted to vote someone else on your reasons.

VOTE: sakura

Cos I want to pressure her

Worst post of the game thus far. Completely defeats the point of a pressure vote if you call it a pressure vote.

Scum here!!!! voting me cos I vote scum buddy!

Why aren't you voting Tierce then?

I'm her scumbuddy then too, right? Because I voted you after your Sakura vote?

So far, that's all we know from Tierce: she voted you after you voted Sakura.

You, I like you.

I didnt like the interaction with having fitz. Decided she was scum then.

What about the interaction between Hana-san and fitz did you not like? Why?

This is longer than I thought. Breaking into chunks for ease of reading.

[Syryana]

Mutley's Sakura vote is opportunistic. He jumped on the first wagon with (poor) reasoning that was presented (PEdit: why is the interaction with havingfitz scummy?), labeling himself a 'pressure' vote. (Which don't do anything if they are presented as such, but that's not alignment-related, just a pet peeve of mine.) I understand bypassing the Nacho wagon, but jumping someone else for 'pressure'? He needs better reasoning than that, and generalizing that interaction as scummy without explaining why doesn't cut it.


Besides, he called me boring. Lies and slander, for which the punishment is hanging by the neck until dead.

You're boring. Be interesting and answer me this: Do you think Mutley might be reaction testing?

Oh my god.

I hate early wagons. But what even. I don't. What.

VOTE: Mutley

If you are somehow actually town stop being so antagonistic and distracting everyone. This is absurd.

I really don't like this post. Why don't you actually engage Mutley and try to figure out what's going on instead of "THIS SO BAD WUT"?
What don't you like about Mutley? Why?

My rather poor scum game would be stooping to a new low if I jumped on someone to protect a scumbuddy.

Why is Sakura Hana scum, Mutleyddmc?

Cos I decided she was

Good callout.

Plus its early on. I have no idea who is scum.

Never mind. He's not reaction testing.

So you say I'm scum because you said so, makes total sense, except, not really.
You didn't like my interaction with fitz yet you refuse to answer Tierce's queries about what made you think I'm scummy from the interaction with fitz.
You say you wanted to apply pressure to me, without giving me questions.
Also you say I'm scum then you say:

Plus its early on. I have no idea who is scum.

What in the fricken hell.
VOTE: Mutleyddmc
So I ask you then, what part of my interaction with fitz, with quotes and/or links if possible and why made you think I'm scum?.

Early townread on you, this is a great reaction to Mutley's last post.

[Syryana]

So while I would admit Mutley has been a bit annoying in here, a quick look over some of his other games shows as no surprise....he likes short posts (but is capable of more thoughtful content) and he apparently likes to be annoying.  And he's in the middle of a 5 person speed wagon that I predict has a scum or two on it. 

A quick look at his completed games also reveals that though he likes short posts (and trolling) he also scumhunts, which he has conspicuously not done here.
If you believe there are a scum or two on the wagon, who are they and why?

And this is to everyone else as well: Do you believe the speed of a wagon is indicative of the wagonee's (in this case Mutley's) alignment? Do you believe that the speed of the wagon indicates there is scum on it?

Personally I believe the speed of the wagon is null. I've seen scum driven and town driven wagons pop up like this. I'm interested to hear everyone else's thoughts.

Would you tell us if you said something dishonest?

What if you were scum?

How do these questions help you determine Hana-san's alignment? They both lead to self-meta and WIFOM.

UNVOTE
VOTE: Chenoan
I'm inclined to agree with fitz at the moment as far as mutley's tendency goes. I don't like how Chenoan is justifying his vote as something he doesn't like to do before following through and voting regardless.

I like the Chenoan vote, but why do you agree with fitz about Mutley's tendency? What in particular are you seeing from Mutley that makes you think it's his town play?

@Fitz: My problem with Mutley's only voting was that he wanted to pressure Sakura, but there was nothing else she could be pressured by. Like I had said earlier, she had answered the questions about her. If you still obviously had questions for her (which I didn't think so), then Mutley's vote just for pressure would make sense.

If Mutley's vote for pressure was simply for an RVS wagon, then I feel like he would've voted Nacho instead.

So that's why Mutley's bothering me.

I don't like him because he's not doing anything to try to figure out anyone. I originally thought he might be trolling around reaction testing, but he's not doing anything with reactions, not asking questions, not really doing anything except making noise and dodging people's questions.

Sorry, didn't notice this had started, gonna quickly re-read.

Also, can we please not lynch someone 4 pages in? There's no reason why someone should be at L-2 right now.

What's the problem with someone being at L-2 on page 4?

havingfitz, I see your question, will answer when not on my phone. The short version is that Sakura Hana wasn't calling you scum, just pointing out faulty logic from you.

UNVOTE: Mutleyddmc

Why the unvote, Tierce?

[Syryana]

Lord'a mercy. So much to say, so little time. Hmm.
VOTE: Mutleyddmc

My Glade plug-in spoke to me in a loud voice when I got up this morning. Before it died it also mentioned Chenoan and havingfitz.

[Syryana]

Because I want to meta Mutley before anything else happens, and I'm on my phone. We're both out of a game in which someone was lynched on page 1, and in the last Newbie game I modded someone self-hammered as Town on page 4. I'm sure you'll empathize with me when I say I don't want yet another quickhammer.

Oh god, I was trying to forget about that game.

Good point on the quickhammer though, I don't

think

that two of the three not voting people will waltz in and derphammer like that game, but better safe than sorry.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: havingfitz

[Syryana]

@Syryana: I agree with the sporadic and irritating questions. I can't say whether he's town or scum, but I've got a better lead on Chenoan at the moment.

Lead on, Lazurial!

[Syryana]

Lol if people meta me you will think I am town that's just stupid.

Are you saying meta is stupid, or that people are stupid for meta'ing you and calling you town for it?

This game is so scatter fire. I don't even know what's happening or why and I've read every post.

Keeping my vote on mutley for now since other people unvoted.

Two srongest town reads are Syryana and DBK. But apart from Mutley no one is standing out as scummy.

@Laz: I'm not understanding your case on me. Is it just because I voted the wagon even though I don't like wagoning?

The reason I went with the early wagon this time is because it's not based on nothing. Mutley is acting really absurdly, and that deserves votes/pressure. However his reactions to that are even MORE confusing. I'm kind of at a loss right now, but he's still my strongest scum read.

Uh...

If you have no idea what's going on, why/how do you have two town reads? What about my/DBK's play makes you town read us particularly?

Can you go point out the particular posts/reasons you find Mutley to be scummy?

[Syryana]

So you're saying meta is not stupid, but it doesn't apply to you?

[Syryana]

/inb4Equinoxprodsme

Will deal with this tomorrow

[Syryana]

Engh.

Not wanting a Townread just out of meta (meta applies to everyone, you just have to know what to look for, it's not just "I always act like this!") reads Town.

Agreed.

@Chenoan: My case is that you're being so careful to announce how you hate wagons, before hopping on one.

This isn't why you should be suspicious of Chenoan (or at least not why I'm suspicious of him). Why is his hypocrisy a scumtell?
Edit: Sniped by Tierce

But blatantly disassociating yourself with your actions is, I would say.

Meh, I'm more interested in hearing why he's got townreads on me and DBK even though he has "no idea what's going on".

until Syryana came along and voiced some of the very thoughts I was thinking.

Reading your mind, stealing your thoughts, you probably shouldn't have taken off the tinfoil hat.

Speaking of...had an early scum read on Bo based on what I think was an initial misinterpretation of Post 21 which I read as him wondering why Sakura wasn't on a pressure wagon that he wasn't even on. But, re-reading that and in the context of the rest of his play, it looks like he was wondering why she wasn't on it when Sakura had mentioned the importance of pressure wagons. Oh also Bo reached town status in Post 47 by making me giggle.

Making you giggle is a reason to give out townreads?

87: I think the speed of the wagon is null too. I've seen all types of wagons build at this speed. Oh, and apparently Syryana got to post the Fitz thing before I did. Great.

Chenoan's 95 doesn't sit well with me either. Now he's keeping a vote on Mutley for pressure and not asking his own questions. He never truly outlined why he saw Mutley as scummy. His overall confusion also plays weird to me.

DAMMIT SYR QUIT SHARING THE SAME BRAIN CLOUD STORAGE SPACE. (96 about Chenoan)

108: @Sakura: Mind giving me the Laz scumread reason?

Tammy comes in and says the same stuff Syr did. Hey guys. We should be friends. AND SHE GIGGLED AT MY PLUG-IN THING I'm not even that funny.

113 makes some sense.

You time travel OMGUS. I time travel argument steal. Any argument you will make in the future I will make first!

Moar to come.

[Syryana]

@Syryana...I didn't think the answers were acceptable/made sense...i.e. I didn't think they answered my questions.  Which apparently Sakura agreed with.  And btw...her second response was unacceptable as well.  She says she didn't want to risk a quicklynch and yet she had issue with me not adding to someone's wagon.  And as for her initial answer to the second question...it was not true...the very next vote after Sakura's first vote was by Chenoan who used a RV reason very similar to mine.  So Sakura's answers were poor and inaccurate.
 
@Syryana again...your "also reveals...scumhunting" look at Mutley is what I was referring to when I said he is capable of more contentful posts.  Which I said near the start of page 3.  I'm not expecting brilliant cases from anyone that early in the game.  As for who I suspect off Mutley's wagon...first hint would be who I'm voting.  It's still too early to tell who could possible be a 2nd (if there even is one).  I'm not a fan of Chenoan up to this point (who Sakura amusing defends later in the game) so he's a suspect.  They are all candidates at this point in the game. 
 
As for my questions that you quote from Post 71 and Post 73...they were asked to Sakura to prove a point on how absurd her "So speaking honestly is scummy" comment was.  Which I infer earlier in Post 71.  An admission that she would not confess to speaking dishonestly as scum (which she did not admit to) would show her baseless comment's uselessness.  I.e. everyone should be assumed to be speaking honestly unless they are scum who aren’t going to admit to speaking dishonestly.
 
@Syryana...so why are you voting me?  I think you need to change your Glade plug-in.

Except you dodged the shit out of my question in the first place. How does showing the absurdity in Hana-san's posts indicate her alignment, or help you figure it out? Absurdity isn't a scumtell. I don't think I've seen a question from you that has actually been useful in terms of ferreting out alignment. My Glade plug-in is just fine.
 

I’m glad Sakura warms your heart ….why does she not look nervous?  She gives a poor response to me that she admits to.  She uses not knowing how many it takes to lynch as an excuse for putting a second vote on someone (despite having just criticized me for not doing so) and when she realizes it take 7 instead of 5 to lynch…SHE PUTS A 4th VOTE ON NACHO!  So she was afraid to put a 2nd vote on anyone when she though it was 5 to lynch but has no problem (for no reasons other than “pressure” putting someone at L-3…which is what she would have been doing placing a 2nd vote on someone in a 9 person game.  Hello????

That's one hell of a misrep, sir. She didn't vote for

Nacho

because she thought it would put him at L-1. She didn't try to make another bandwagon because she was busy voting for

you

.
 

That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new.  And as fitz is not new, it just looks like he's being busy for the sake of it.

What’s laughable is that you do not realize why I asked them.  I answer the question above to Syryana but it should not need to be answered as the question shouldn't have been asked to begin with. It’s a lame excuse to cast suspicion on me.   Sakura made a baseless false accusation and I wanted to prove to her that is was baseless.

No, you didn't. You claim you want to reveal absurdity which in no way indicates alignment one way or the other. Sort of like the rest of the questions you've been posing to her.
 

Why did you meta Mutley in particular?  Did you also meta Sakura?

Errrrrrrrr…..because I logged in yesterday and he was at L-2 early on page 3 which is ridiculous.  I wanted to see if he had any other games (scum or town) where he posted in a similar manner.  I only found two games (both town) and it appeared consistent IMO.  As I did not see any scum games his behavior in this game was at the very least null but in no way indicative of scum.  So is he scum?  Maybe.  Is he scum for the way he joked around and painfully dragged out people’s questions to him?  I do not think so.  And no…I didn’t meta Sakura.  I don’t typically use meta to find scum (unless it’s just something I recall about a person) and the only reason I did it with Mutley was because he seemed on the verge of a lynch.

Uses meta to figure out Mutley
Doesn't use meta to figure out his primary scumspect
Doesn't use meta to find scum
Does not compute
 

87: I think the speed of the wagon is null too. I've seen all types of wagons build at this speed. Oh, and apparently Syryana got to post the Fitz thing before I did. Great.

I do not think a wagon going from zero to L-2 in a little over a page (35 posts) and in less than 4 hours is normal.  It screams mislynch wagon to me.  If it was later in the game and people’s suspicions were better founded…or there was some sort of mitigating evidence towards someone…sure…quicklynch away.  But in the early stages of D1?  No.  It is not null.  It might not be definitive but it is a lot stronger than null IMO.

Page 2 Wagon at L-2 on Town by Town in Less than Four Hours

No scum were on that wagon, it was completely town driven. You insisting wagon speed is indicative of being a scum-driven mislynch is ludicrous.
 

I'm torn between pressuring Chenoan or Fitz first...hm...
Let's get Fitz.
VOTE: havingfitz
I want to hear his thoughts on what Syr and Tammy have said first.

Let’s pressure someone. (Oo oo…I’m under pressure…)
Let’s get Fitz (ie “get” me as in lynch me?  Or is that pressure?  To do what?)
Vote Fitz….
So when you say you want my thoughts first….to what does the first apply to?  Some action on your part?  My potential lynching?  :?

You trying to paint Bo as scummy for pressuring you or something? Like, the fuck?

This guy needs to eat rope.

Catchup post part three coming soon to a mafia forum near you!

[Syryana]

Tierce wall and Tammy wall are good walls.

I wasn't looking at it as the effects now being scummy. I saw it as an effort to cover his tracks before they were made.
I haven't had much to say, really. We've got a few people firing on all cylinders, and I'm still new enough that I'm trying to learn. Chenoan was my first lead. I mentioned fitz because I followed up on something he posted and agreed.

UNVOTE

because clearly I'm not making any headway here. I'll pack the case up and save it for later, if I get more against him.

Do you have any other leads/suspects?

[Syryana]

dragonfly replaces Bert. Thank you!

Nooooooooooooo, not my Bert!

Why aren't you voting Tierce then?

Why did you ask this question?
The answer is fairly obvious if you think about it.

He seemed one hell of a lot surer Tierce was scum than Hana-san. I wondered why he didn't move his "pressure vote" off to Tierce. It was before I realized he was just trolling the shit out of everyone.

And this is to everyone else as well: Do you believe the speed of a wagon is indicative of the wagonee's (in this case Mutley's) alignment? Do you believe that the speed of the wagon indicates there is scum on it?

Personally I believe the speed of the wagon is null. I've seen scum driven and town driven wagons pop up like this. I'm interested to hear everyone else's thoughts.

In all honesty clueless here, does scum driven mean only one scum on it or more than one?

What I mean when I say scum driven is that scum are the driving force behind the lynch. I was just curious what everyone else thought about wagon speed.

Lead on, Lazurial!

Does this mean you have a town read on Laz?
Or just a scum read on Chenoan?

Moreso a scum read on Chenoan. Haven't decided what to think about Laz yet. I liked his initial push on Chenoan, but I don't like either his stated reasons or how he just packed up and left as soon as his case met resistance.

That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new.

I actually didn't have a problem with Fitz asking those questions.
Why are so many people thinking those questions were bad?

They're bad because they don't actually help him figure out alignment.

Tierce, you're probably town and Tammy is probably town because you're not lynching her.
Bert is town too despite being weird as fuck, probably. Add your easy townreads to the list and we'll have a ball around them. If we don't lynch all of the scum/I survive for more than 3 days, you can lynch me and I'll show you my poetry and my short stories and be crazy trolling town.

Vote: Syryana

I'm mostly trolling with this vote but fitz is sort of townish (although I haven't read him yet) so you can die by fire and flames, scumbag.

Nacho! So nice of you to join us. Talk to me about fitz!

Worst post of the game thus far. Completely defeats the point of a pressure vote if you call it a pressure vote.

booooooring

Now you're here to spice up my life, I can't do it without you

Chenoan, Syryana, and Lazurial. Syryananas, how many powerups did you give your team? Did you go with daytalk and the JOAT so you could take me out of the game and didn't have to go through a bodyguard?

I didn't stop there; I took every single one of those powers just so I could terminate you with extreme prejudice.

Pedit: Talk to me Nachooooooo

[Syryana]

Talk to me, tell my why I'm scum

Tell my why fitz is town too while you're at it

[Syryana]

You haven't done anything for me to get paranoid about, except where you're calling fitz town

And us not trolling together is entirely your fault

[Syryana]

Nacho! So nice of you to join us. Talk to me about fitz!

AND WHAT THE HELL IS THIS
NO CRACKS ABOUT BEING DRUNK
BUT YOU WANTED ME TO CHAT ABOUT FITZ LIKE YOU HAVE A STRONG SCUMREAD ON HIM OR SOMETHING
AND YOU IGNORE THE FUCK OUT OF ME AND LAZ CHILLING
FORGET YOU MAN
I LOVED YOU
BUT YOU STABBED ME IN THE FUCKING HEART

WHY WOULD I EVER TROLL WITH YOU
YOU FUCKING LEFT ME FOR A GODDAMN ALE BARREL
HOW FUCKING DARE YOU

[Syryana]

Bring it on, laddy buck

I'ma beat your drunk ass into next week

[Syryana]

Be careful about that. I'd rather not have Nacho missing for seven days after he's already been so absentee.

You sit over there in the corner

This is between Nacho and me

[Syryana]

I had a catchup post

Then i decided to go to la parilla

You can have it later

[Syryana]

Hey Syryana.
You just had two games with me in which I was scum and won both. In our first game together you were even fretting that I was too obvTown as Town. Here we have: "Tierce wall is a good wall." No paranoia?

It was a good wall. Besides, after Xylbot, I'm pretty confident I can get a read on you after a couple of Days.

Spoiler: Response to Syryana

 

What question did I dodge the shit out of?  I’ve explained why Sakura’s “absurd” post is indicative of alignment.  It gives me added cause to suspect her because it was a baseless attempt at pointing suspicions towards someone IMO (Mutley in this case). 

Pointing out Mutley's retardation is scummy? 

I’m glad Sakura warms your heart ….why does she not look nervous?  She gives a poor response to me that she admits to. 

She uses not knowing how many it takes to lynch as an excuse for putting a second vote on someone (despite having just criticized me for not doing so) and when she realizes it take 7 instead of 5 to lynch…SHE PUTS A 4th VOTE ON NACHO!  So she was afraid to put a 2nd vote on anyone when she though it was 5 to lynch but has no problem (for no reasons other than “pressure” putting someone at L-3…which is what she would have been doing placing a 2nd vote on someone in a 9 person game.

  Hello????

That's one hell of a misrep, sir. She didn't vote for

Nacho

because she thought it would put him at L-1. She didn't try to make another bandwagon because she was busy voting for

you

.

Where is there a misrep?  You accusing me of a misrep is a misrep in itself.  I didn’t say anything about her not voting Nacho for fear of putting him at L-1.  What are you even talking about?  Read the quote above a little slower if necessary.  I only mention her vote that puts Nacho at L-3.  I never mention L-1 wrt anything she is doing. 

 
I bolded it for you. You say Hana-san is scummy because she doesn't want to put a second vote on Nacho when she thinks it's a micro but when she finds out it isn't a micro she doesn't mind putting a 4th vote on him (L-3 in both cases). You're misrepping the fuck out of her (she didn't put vote #2 on Nacho because she was voting you). When she decided that you weren't scummy enough to keep a vote on, Nacho was at 3 votes, which in a micro would mean she'd be putting Nacho at L-1. When Bo explained that this isn't a micro, she voted Nacho because it wasn't L-1 anymore. You're skipping some important events in the middle to try to make her look scummy; ergo misrep.
 

That fitz actually asks the questions he does in Post 71 and Post 73 is laughable as fitz is not new and these questions can't possible be considered productive by someone who isn't new.  And as fitz is not new, it just looks like he's being busy for the sake of it.

What’s laughable is that you do not realize why I asked them.  I answer the question above to Syryana but it should not need to be answered as the question shouldn't have been asked to begin with. It’s a lame excuse to cast suspicion on me.   Sakura made a baseless false accusation and I wanted to prove to her that is was baseless.

No, you didn't. You claim you want to reveal absurdity which in no way indicates alignment one way or the other. Sort of like the rest of the questions you've been posing to her.

Discussed above.

Spell it out in short simple words. I must have missed it.
 

Why did you meta Mutley in particular?  Did you also meta Sakura?

Errrrrrrrr…..because I logged in yesterday and he was at L-2 early on page 3 which is ridiculous.  I wanted to see if he had any other games (scum or town) where he posted in a similar manner.  I only found two games (both town) and it appeared consistent IMO.  As I did not see any scum games his behavior in this game was at the very least null but in no way indicative of scum.  So is he scum?  Maybe.  Is he scum for the way he joked around and painfully dragged out people’s questions to him?  I do not think so.  And no…I didn’t meta Sakura.  I don’t typically use meta to find scum (unless it’s just something I recall about a person) and the only reason I did it with Mutley was because he seemed on the verge of a lynch.

Uses meta to figure out Mutley
Doesn't use meta to figure out his primary scumspect
Doesn't use meta to find scum
Does not compute

You’re obviously working with an inferior computer.  This has already been addressed to Tammy a few times.

Yeah, I should probably upgrade. "I don't typically use meta to find scum" followed by "I used meta to evaluate Mutley because he seemed on the verge of a lynch" is a crock of shit.

87: I think the speed of the wagon is null too. I've seen all types of wagons build at this speed. Oh, and apparently Syryana got to post the Fitz thing before I did. Great.

I do not think a wagon going from zero to L-2 in a little over a page (35 posts) and in less than 4 hours is normal.  It screams mislynch wagon to me.  If it was later in the game and people’s suspicions were better founded…or there was some sort of mitigating evidence towards someone…sure…quicklynch away.  But in the early stages of D1?  No.  It is not null.  It might not be definitive but it is a lot stronger than null IMO.

Page 2 Wagon at L-2 on Town by Town in Less than Four Hours
 
No scum were on that wagon, it was completely town driven. You insisting wagon speed is indicative of being a scum-driven mislynch is ludicrous.

You finding one example doesn’t make it normal.  I’m stating an opinion about the speed with which Mutley’s wagon grew.  Your example doesn’t change that opinion.  If I find an example where a quick wagon build up on D1 is on town with scum is your opinion going to change?  Because I have a few very recent examples….one of which interestingly enough where the D1 quicklynch  wagon was on YOU and a game which also included DBK and awestfie in it…in addition to me.  Seems like you would recall that game?????? WTF?

I already talked about this with awestfie. You provide one example where scum is on it, I provide one example where town is on it.... sounds like a fat null tell to me.
 

I'm torn between pressuring Chenoan or Fitz first...hm...
Let's get Fitz.
VOTE: havingfitz
I want to hear his thoughts on what Syr and Tammy have said first.

Let’s pressure someone. (Oo oo…I’m under pressure…)
Let’s get Fitz (ie “get” me as in lynch me?  Or is that pressure?  To do what?)
Vote Fitz….
So when you say you want my thoughts first….to what does the first apply to?  Some action on your part?  My potential lynching? 

You trying to paint Bo as scummy for pressuring you or something? Like, the fuck?
 
This guy needs to eat rope.
 
Catchup post part three coming soon to a mafia forum near you!

I hate the “needs to eat rope” phrase.  It’s stupid.  But I digress.  Where do I try to paint DBK as scummy?  I’m asking him to clarify his post.
 
Also, can you provide a few one liners on why you are voting me?

If I wanted clarifications, I probably wouldn't be sarcastic to the guy making the post.

One liners:
You're scum
You're not scumhunting

 

 

And…
 

Tierce wall and Tammy wall are good walls.

How buddy buddy of you. 

If you think this was buddying, wait til I whip out the puppy pics for Tierce 

As you point out…there is nothing wrong with those questions.    People are trying to make something out of nothing.

I believe nothing is the problem.
 

I’m not acting any way.  This is me.  I’m not bitter about anything as this is just an online game.  I will say I am not a big fan of stupid and if that comes across as bitter…   If I get mislynched I’ll move on to the next game and hope town can find scum in my accusers.

AtE? From you?
 

As for a scum driven wagon on Mutley...nowhere do I say it unequivocally is scum driven.  I don't infer any absolutes with it.  So whay would you think I'm not "consider that chance" that the Mutley wagon isn't scum driven?  I say I "predict" the Mutley wagon has a scum or two on it.  Do I have to state the opposing possibility exists for every suspicion I bring up?  I would think that is a given short of an investigation results (and that is only an example and is not intended to be construed as rolefishing).  I'm basing my opinion on my own experiences.

You said the Mutley wagon had scum on it. You never followed up.

The Former Syrnanas:

Worst post of the game thus far. Completely defeats the point of a pressure vote if you call it a pressure vote.

Mutley is a troll. Sometimes things he posts are a little lighthearted, random, light to handle. Syryana swung the fuck on that anti-town, hard to read post like a sledgehammer. Town Syryana would want to use opening posts to buddy a bit, troll a bit, do random aggro things and yell at people. But here he attacked a weak player, defended strong players and took two wallposts to do it.

And now I'm swinging the sledgehammer on your buddy fitz.

Oh god, I was trying to forget about that game.

Good point on the quickhammer though, I don't think that two of the three not voting people will waltz in and derphammer like that game, but better safe than sorry.

Tierce he respects you as a player but not this much. He switched over so easily from this target he attacked SO VERY STRONGLY onto a suspect he moved onto before.

The sledgehammer is thirsty, it requires much blood

Tierce wall and Tammy wall are good walls.

Weak weak. Tammy's wall was pretty boring. Tierce's was not yet obvtown but it was OK I guess.

Weak weak.

Nooooooooooooo, not my Bert!

Now you're here to spice up my life, I can't do it without you

I call him out for not trolling, he immediately starts trolling. Which is odd timing and he wasn't trolling in the same way he

could

.

Hmm.. where did you call me out for trolling again? #187? 187 > 184.

Talk to me, tell my why I'm scum

Tell my why fitz is town too while you're at it

drops this when i ignore him and keeps trolling
he wanted to talk to me and i wasn't playing ball, so he appeases me?

How is this an appeasement?

You haven't done anything for me to get paranoid about, except where you're calling fitz town

nah.
nah. if he just didn't feel like trolling, it would mean we weren't on the same page because he was being weird.
and he would say "sorry nacho i wanted to have a cool towngame". instead, he called me paranoid but took absolutely zero position on me and that was boring, lame, scummy.

Reading comprehension. I didn't call you paranoid; I said you hadn't done anything for me to be paranoid about.

The trend towards easy lynches wasn't good. I didn't like the transitions from easy lynch to sheeping Tierce without real interactions with her like "you're so amazing, Tierce!" or "Tierce, I really wish you were scum but you aren't so we'll have to deal with being town together" etc to trolling with Nacho. None of it has a thought process, and is mostly him just adapting to new threats that come by (first Tierce, then me).

I'm pretty disappointed with you, old boy. Trending towards easy lynches? Tierce threatening me? My posts don't have a thought process? Really now. If you're going to chainsaw your mate fitz, at least do it properly. This just won't do.

[Syryana]

You're all beautiful people and you should know that.

Also, I probably won't make much sense if I repsond to anthy thing tongith and you hsould just forgive me that.

We love you and will forgive you

Please more drunkposting

[Syryana]

What did she put in the wall that she couldn't do as scum?

No idea, never seen scum Tammy.

You're correct. But that was a little bit of trolling versus actual trolling later after my #189 - #192 posts.

I don't even..

After you asked why I was scumreading you and townreading fitz, I said some bullshit about you not trolling enough. Then, instead of following up on fitz-town, syryana-scum reads, you start trolling me as per my request. That's what I mean by appeasement.

So, you make it clear you're not going to talk to me about things, then I give up and start trolling you, it's appeasement?

"he said that i didn't do anything for him to be paranoid about" but took absolutely no position on me whatsoever. Sorry, that was from my tired days.

Yes, we like to call that a null read.

You didn't properly defend yourself against any of those accusations, interestingly enough.

I defended myself against every accusation that had a basis in fact.

@Hana: Not really. He's got a pretty solid case. I'm town, but that doesn't mean I haven't made a mistake. Should I sit here and argue that what I did isn't what I did? I don't really see that working, this being a forum and all.

If you're town you should be pointing out where he's wrong.

@Syryana:

Why are you suspicious of Chenoan? You've been quietly throwing out indications that you think that he is scum and approving of Chenoan votes, but you've never actually followed up. No hard questions for Chenoan and no statements about why you feel he is scummy. It seems to me that you've had a good opportunity to explore these things when Chenoan hit 3 votes, but you've completely ignored him.

I got distracted by Nacho and fitz. My scumread on him basically stems from his lurkiness and the fact that he's saying he's no clue what's going on yet he's still voting/has reads. I'll ISO him in more detail and get back to you.

[Syryana]

Hey Ruff. Went back and ISO'd Chenoan. My scumread on him has more or less disintegrated. I liked his explanations (read wall-posting) in #236 and #238.

Chenoan, what about Nacho's case on me do you like? What do you think of my responses to it in #263 and #314? What feels off about the fitz wagon?

What in the absolute fuck is going on with the last half-dozen posts, Lazurial? Are you actually making a case on yourself being scum?

[Syryana]

Is laz a jester?

Aaaand there goes my Townread on you.

Questionable logic is one thing. Self-effacing behavior another--but now you're playing dumb.

I thought he was trolling again. Why do you think otherwise?

Nuts. So much for analysis. Guess I'll have to resort to questions.

@dragonfly: What did you think of Syryana's responses to me?

@Tammy: You've been tunneling havingfitz for awhile now. Anyone else on your mind? Any players with question marks on your list that you think need a deeper examination? (Don't you like any country?)

I don't really have a question for Sakura Hana. My biggest concern with her play isn't with her scum hunting per se, but the fact that she has been on all the major wagons thus far. Last on the Nachomamma8 wagon and last one on the Mutleyddmc wagon. She did make it to second place on the havingfitz wagon, but I'm still a bit concerned that her scum hunting is following public sentiment.

Tierce has also been on all three major wagons (2nd on Nachomamma8, 1st on Mutleyddmc and 5th on havingfitz). However, I still do not think he's scummy.

So, what are your reads exactly? I'm seeing: Tierce, null-town, Hana-san: null, and... that's it. Do you have anything concrete one way or the other?

[Syryana]

Town reads: yes. Scum reads: no.

That's all I wanted to know.

[Syryana]

Oh that Rufflig question goes for Syryana too - Did you read Tierce correctly in Khan's game?

I did, for all the good it did. Rufflig more or less covered it. Once she came back from V/LA and didn't jump all over serra, I knew she was scum. I'd suspected it before then, but it wasn't certain until then.

In Tenements, there was a different voting problem. There were 5 players alive (out of 13). There had only been 1 mafia flip - no sk present. havingfitz had gained an extra vote so it took 4 votes to lynch. Assuming that there were 2 scum left then it was impossible for havingfitz to be scum. The town would have had only 3 votes of the needed 4 votes to lynch. Guess who got mislynched? That's right, the two other townies and both scum ended up lynching havingfitz. Granted that is a bit of a simplification, but the town should never have settled for his lynch -- even as a gambit.

That's a pretty gross oversimplification. Fitz didn't get lynched because he was scummy (AA9 scumread doesn't count); he got lynched because WT was gambling on his fireball working and the town didn't know for sure how many scum were left (also WT thought fitz was slightly less townie than Slandaar for some reason, still no idea how that worked).

I don't understand how that game ending applies to what's happening now. Can you explain to me how what happened in that game applies to you reading fitz in this one?

[Syryana]

ATM, the only thing from that game that I see pertinent here is his attitude. He came off fairly prickly to me in that game. So the mentions of his attitude coming off as not town here are falling on my deaf ears. I don't know if he comes off prickly as scum or not.

I'm not voting him cause he's prickly. I'm voting him because he's doing his damnedest to paint Hana-san scummy (even with mountains of evidence she isn't), he's refusing to do any scumhunting or even consider other targets, his original "questions" on Hana-san had nothing to do with actually finding her alignment. The fitz I remember from Tenements at least gave thought to other possibilities, but this fitz here apparently doesn't give a damn.

I believe that I can read Syryana fairly well since I've seen him as both town and scum. I thought that Syryana looked town in my initial read through. So, I wasn't looking at him that hard when I started digging into the game. Therefore, I was surprised to find something that I found questionable in his play. His encouragment of Chenoan's wagon without contributing to it struck me as being a little off.

I liked Chenoan for scum at first cause I didn't like how he was blatantly stating he had no clue yet he was still voting and having reads. I asked him some things about it (don't remember if I got replies or not, must go see), but Laz seemed to be onto him too so I let him pursue it and concentrated on fitz. Then I got completely distracted by fitz/Nacho and missed Chenoan's responses. When you brought it up and I went back and checked, Chen's responses pretty much dissolved the scumread I had on him.

[Syryana]

There's that Syryana case that I need to go through more deeply. But Nachoooo it's three days to deadline and havingfitz is doing some very very lovely prod-dodging and oh-god-I-don't-even-know-why-they-be-voting-me-help-help and I don't Trollyana to become a distraction when havingfitz cannot be bothered to muster the strength to scumhunt him.

Here's some incentive to go read the Nacho case.

Spoiler: Lots of incentive

Call me Trollyana more, it makes me warm and fuzzy inside <3

[Syryana]

I can't really stall that vote any longer.

Why were you stalling that vote in the first place? According to your #360, you felt Tierce effectively shredded fitz. Why wait?

[Syryana]

Neither Laz nor Fitz seem to be defending themselves very well. I'm still more comfortable with the Laz lynch, because my read on Fitz is so dependent on my reads on other players and I'm not totally confident in them yet.

Did you read Tierce's fitz case?

[Syryana]

Mod, I will be LA until tomorrow.

I'm sorry about this with less than a day before deadline, but I have no choice. I like my vote where it is.

[Syryana]

I finally draw a cool fucking role, and what happens? I go V/LA for two fucking days and get run up to L-1.

I'm the goon cop, you fucking bastards

[Syryana]

Great game, Tammy. Sorry about the bus, Syryana. ept postponing things and then it was too late to rebuke Nacho's case while looking good.

It's cool. It was mostly my fault anyways; I crumpled hard to Nacho's early assault and the lynch coincided with my V/LA. The actual day I claimed goon cop the doctor did something to my eyes and I couldn't even read the screen to defend myself XD We won anyways though! And you complain about how bad your scumgame is! tsk tsk

Great modding Equinox! A+ would play again!