NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[Calcifer]

TheIrishPope
BROseidon
Nero
Zdenek

VOTE: TheIrishPope.

[Calcifer]

Broseidon is scum.

Vote: Broseidon

Zdenek is town.

VOTE: BROseidon.

[Calcifer]

Broseidon is scum.

Vote: Broseidon

Zdenek is town.

VOTE: BROseidon.

Which half of the hydra is this?

Doesn't matter.

You're still scum.

[Calcifer]

This whole game is a WIFOM tangle, its the fun of it.

vote:ProHawk

for the above quote. He's either scum or a bad player. That makes him a good enough lynch for me. I hope I don't need to explain why this quote is incredibly wrong to you guys.

I will have crappy availability for the next few days, which fits my scum gameplan of lurking very well.

Scum suspect #2 is BROseidan for making a town read on page 2.
Scum suspect #3 is TiP for excessive posting and for possibly being BROseidan's buddy.

Scum number four is Stevie, for making this post.

[Calcifer]

ProHawk is town, despite how stupid his idea was.
TiP, BROseidon, and Stevie are all scum.

[Calcifer]

It creates a giant scum-WIFOM mess.

Basically, since we would only run up a wagon on the person who had the most votes, scum would just have to manipulate the list to make sure that that is not one of them. Let's say there are 6 scum. Any number of them just need to vote for the same person to make sure that person has more than any scum. Beyond that, scum can list whoever the fuck they want on the list. So scum member A could list 3 other scum while scum member B lists no scum at all. Since the idea presumably would be to look back at these lists later to try to build connections, scum can manipulate that by being inconsistent/bus-heavy in their lists.

The tl;dr version is scum have information, town doesn't, that lets scum manipulate this plan to their advantage, and they have too many ways in which they can manipulate it to their advantage for us to use that later for associative tells.

I really really really don't think scum would care about the plan all that much.
But hey, at least this pegs you as likely town.

This is most likely Mastin.

If Nacho doesn't come out and talk to me I am going to get pretty paranoid about you guys.

- f

hi ffery!
I have Zdenek, BRO, Prohawk, TiP, and maybe Stevie as town.

[Calcifer]

Vote: Ankamius

[Calcifer]

Hold the phone
You just said Bro, Stevie, and I were scum

What's up with that?

That would be hydra dissonance from Nacho being a lazy ass and leaving the RVS to me.

Now that he's in the game, our reads will begin to synch more.

[Calcifer]

No.

[Calcifer]

pls sign ur posts kthxbai

kthnx isn't in this game, though.

[Calcifer]

you know, we would make a pretty non-dissonant hydra as hydrae go.

- f

I'm very afraid of you getting any further in my mind than you already are.
But we will hydra soon, I'm sure.

[Calcifer]

Risky from my perspective as well.

What do you think of Ank?

Why Ank over any of the other people who've posted relatively little?

I picked up on something recently, but I want to let RVS go for a little while longer. This one is more interesting than the usual RVS, and I'm still waiting for a couple people to check in and start hitting their baselines.

[Calcifer]

Don't hold back on TIP. He rode the "too dumb to scum" wave to a scum win in the only other game I've played with him.

A link to this would be pretty cool.

Wait... so one of you has Stevie as scum and one of you as town? Could you please sign?

No. Later reads are up to date.

If I were going to put a vote down prior to Syry reading the thread and our doing a synch up, post 41 would have drawn my vote. Scummiest post I've seen in the thread so far.

41 is the reason I'm voting Ank, so that shows we've synced up pretty well already.

I'm starting to think we should just PL this. Whatever happens, this thing dies before LYLO, no exceptions.

I think PLing is stupid.

[Calcifer]

TMT and Rift Adrift are added to my townreads.

[Calcifer]

Calcifer, provided a link page 4.

Cool. That's about what I expected to see.

[Calcifer]

Calcifer is town.
BROseidon is scum.
Nero is town.
TheIrishPope is town, but bad town.
KingCrabd is town.
Zdenek is town.

Why? Why is the distinction between town and bad town necessary?

[Calcifer]

Are you deciding that the tell you saw earlier was nothing?

[Calcifer]

KC, come off the easy lynch for a while and examine the rest of the game. What are you thinking?

[Calcifer]

VOTE: ProHawk

#19 explains.

We're not following that plan. Why do you think he would bring it up as scum? Do you think he missed the obvious flaw?

[Calcifer]

Still waiting for the other half of my brain to catch up, I'm gonna feel him out until I'm satisfied, I can give reads if you'd like but they'll only be mine

That's perfectly fine by me.

[Calcifer]

Prohawk is good enough of a scum player that I have no doubt he could have faked that just as likely as it is that he did that out of town motivation. The entire thing is null.

Don't interrupt my questions.

[Calcifer]

I actually just realised I missed 3 pages thought we were on page 2 lol.

How does the suspicion on the action matter if you follow it or not, it's already proposed and out there. Both as a villager and scum you'd want to stay alive, yes? If scum, he can pick 4 randoms. If not scum, then why even pick four randoms in the game start to put some votes on? Seems a bit weird approach during what's supposed to be RVS.

He can only do that if he thinks somehow that every townie fails to follow the flaw in his plan. By "run up", I also assume he doesn't mean "quicklynch" but instead "wagon".

[Calcifer]

We don't know whether he did it coz he assumed it'd work or not, why is this in your analysis?

Because the attack on him doesn't assume that he's doing it for towncred.

[Calcifer]

Define towncred

something done to look town

[Calcifer]

Is this to me?

Mhm.

[Calcifer]

ofc crab, ofc

>>gets voted
>>responds within 15 minutes

Hello textbook lurking.

What you meant to post was: BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE BEETLEJUICE

[Calcifer]

I said I thought I understood what he was referring to.

What's he referring to?

[Calcifer]

Lights are green for an additional chat.

[Calcifer]

This is the most likely post. I've self-voted before in response to attention as scum before, but the situations are different enough that I'm not really sure how this specifically would be applicable to it.

Your reaction to Zdenek feels seriously off, then. I figured out that his secret scumtell was TiP's self-vote, but the way you went about that felt like you were digging to see if he had a serious case against TiP that you could hop on (hence the buddying); I have no idea why you went about that in such a roundabout way when you could've just asked "Why is that self-vote a scumtell?"

Not liking Stevie for suggesting that we don't look for townreads as well as scumreads.

It's likely this is from a difference in site meta as opposed to any sort of real scum motivation. Do you really think that he thinks he can suddenly convince us to drop townreads forever? No.

Nacho's reason may be a little different. The thing that I picked up on was an awkward indirectness.

If there was a fistbump emote on this forum...

Vote: DocHolliday

Do you have anything else, TSO? This is a little narrowvisioned.

TSO might be scum - that's a long nonsense "case" I've ever seen one.

yupyup

you were ninja'd by my post 9 hours ago?

I really, really hope it doesn't take him that long to write that post.

And your thoughts about T S O and Stevie?

TSO is reading scum, Stevie is still reading town but I haven't seen enough from him yet. Most of the arguments against him are due to him coming from a different meta as opposed to anything valid.

[Calcifer]

Mac, MS, Nero all new townreads. Do you agree?

[Calcifer]

And your thoughts about T S O and Stevie?

Also I am loving this Ank lynch.

[Calcifer]

And I'll talk more later, but I have some chatting to do and I don't want to be completely distracted with mafia (which I will be).

[Calcifer]

Know the best part of hydra'ing with Nacho?

Our reads get into synch really really quickly.

Know the worst part about hydra'ing with Nacho?

He leaves me with pretty much nothing to say because he already said it.

Anyway, should make it clear--I fully endorse the Ankamius wagon and would love to see more pressure there myself.

[Calcifer]

I have no idea why you went about that in such a roundabout way when you could've just asked "Why is that self-vote a scumtell?"

That would indicate I was sure it's the self-vote.

I wasn't.

What else could it have been?

Also, finally looked at Stevie. Scumread.

BROseidon is still my biggest scumread, though. Let's run him through.

Why?

Could you explain why Nero is town? I'm not seeing it.

The tunneling is a bit disconcerting and it's the reason why he's only a weak townread, but I like his #159 where he addressed Doc Holiday. Him not understanding what "weak scum" was and then jumping on that as hard as he could seemed like a town move; usually when people are calling you shitty scum when you're just plain scum, you steamroll them WITHOUT trumpeting about how good your scumgame is.

His overall point is good, but his explanation sucks.

Why does that make him scum?
(It doesn't.)

I can easily see scum doing this. I've done something similar in a recent scum game. I was the first wagon of the game and I self-voted because it was safer than responding normally; it has a higher chance of appearing scum in a reaction test.

Basically, scum paranoia.

Why is it more likely to be coming from scum as opposed to be coming from town?

I shouldn't have to explain why this is awful.

Did you expect me not to ask you why you didn't like those posts?

I didn't realize that Stevie was coming from another site. Will reevaluate him with this in mind.

Erm, not another site. Another time.

[Calcifer]

Ffery, we need to talk again.

[Calcifer]

Ffery, we need to talk again.

I'm at a real keyboard now. Will be around.

hey ffery
i'm reading up now

[Calcifer]

calcifer and zdenek both town.

you were reading us as town despite the conflicting reads?

nothing of interest


oh and i'm VERY VERY SURE TSO doesnt read

you don't read either. what's the big deal?

Hey Calcifer, T S O is doing useful stuff. Wanna add him to the town pile?

Sure.

Whoa, did anyone else catch Ankamius' shameless buddying/self-meta/calling-self-Town bit in 328? I wasn't sold on Ankamius as scum before, but that's definitely shifting my opinion in that direction

I don't like your posturing here at all.

im talking to the 16 year old bachelor still living with his dad. no further comments.

i'm a 16 year old bachelor
but i'm living with my grandpa

k I think I really like DOMO for town because that catchup felt genuine.

i really hope you have better than this

[Calcifer]

Unvote, Vote: Doc Holliday

I actually really like Ank's paranoia about full reads lists even though the paranoia is kind of foolish. Reanalyze your reads when people start flipping town.

[Calcifer]

How are you feeling about Stevie? I'm finding the pile up of votes in that direction kinda troubling.

I still feel good about Stevie and I hate the wagon on him.

Re full reads lists I ran into some players on another site this week that consider early-ish day 1 full reads lists to be a scum tell. I have seen some scummy full reads lists before, but it was the reasoning, not the length that made them scummy.

This is Ank coming off a game where he was essentially a vigilante who we (scum) kept alive because he gave a full reads list and the scum were at the top of the list for the whole game. The fact that he tells DOMO not to do it but doesn't really attack him for it feels genuine considering the game that just ended, and I don't really see his reasoning for faking paranoia like that as scum here since it doesn't really accomplish any sort of purpose.

[Calcifer]

Syr and I will discuss our vote when he's around again.

What are your reads at the moment?

[Calcifer]

I had him as town before, but it's weird that his play has gone on like this for so long.
What do you think of Doc Holliday?

[Calcifer]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[Calcifer]

his posts are starting to look full of fluff (while attempting to appear not fluff)

What does this even mean?

scummy, speculation on scum numbers seems fake - BRO is scum read

why does it seem fake?

This could be interesting if doc is scum.

You think that King Crabd would be worried about defending a scumbuddy so early? Against TiP?

[Calcifer]

Mac, MS, Nero all new townreads. Do you agree?

Could you explain why Nero is town? I'm not seeing it.

He feels town because his stupid deathtunneling is more along the lines of his play in BSG Mafia, as opposed to Unoriginal Mafia or his newbie game. His needlessly aggressive tunneling on Stevie seems more typical of something town would do when they're convinced they have a read as opposed to scum attempting to kill all of their credibility in a single day. That's not exactly a strong read though, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Calcifer]

I got back from dinner, but he was asleep/offline. We're in different time zones, etc. Also he's not able to stay up very late. We'll geetcha an answer once I get to sit down with him. Which will be tomorrow. You know how that is, what with time zones sucking.

Could you get me an answer by tomorrow whether you meet with him or not? Time is of the essence.

[Calcifer]

How does a Town game support your suspicion against me?

We were seeing if you had any meta-related excuses for all the posturing you've been doing lately. You don't.

Doc, I think it was to do with your speech as Town as opposed to here. I haven't even read the link yet though.
MS, yes I am.

In other words, you've drawn a conclusion before having read it. That speaks wonders for your impartial judgment.

...and this speaks wonders for your reading AND listening skills.

We're wondering why time was quite so important?

I don't want to have to wait for the council of elders to convene before I get a read from one of you. One of you can give a read, the other can catch you if you're saying things that they disagree with.

We'd rather go for Dramonic, who, by the way, is still completely missing.

Yeah. So?

You can answer too.

How about some reasons for him being scum? You've been pretty damn quiet on the reasons front.

[Calcifer]

Scum suspect #2 is BROseidan for making a town read on page 2.
Scum suspect #3 is TiP for excessive posting and for possibly being BROseidan's buddy.

I sort of like his "three scum found post", especially since he operates primarily in scumreads so picking out a lot of scum early game is a good thing. His townread paranoia is natural, and the "excessive posting" thing, while inaccurate, is also something that I doubt scum stevie would pick up on. Scum stevie would be more likely to attack bad logic and that sort of thing.

ISO'd Ank. Don't see anything scummy and I don't get the wagon on him at all.

Sees an ank wagon brewing, and where Doc Holliday jumped the fuck on the opportunity, Stevie dismissed it. I liked that.

good work comrades, pile the votes on stevie. if required, i will hardclaim my role to get him lynched.

Just re-posting this quote to remind you all of what a scum Nero is. I think BROseidon is probably the best, most agreed-upon lynch target today. Will ISO him for my next post. I'm not going to move my vote off of him, but I will definitely hammer him.

And while it's tunnely that he's keeping with a read he's had on page 1, BRO's playstyle hasn't changed at all since then so it makes sense why he would hold a scumread. I do like how he kept with the Nero lynch, although I am interested in the ISO.

[Calcifer]

What...

...in the actual fuck?

hey goat
what are you thinking in terms of the actual game right now?

[Calcifer]

It's pretty fucking stupid to say someone is scum due to their activity.

There's a difference between inaccurate and scummy.
And it's a big one.

[Calcifer]

Calcifer
Are you Town
Just tell me now
Also, who should I vote

Yes. Vote Doc Holliday with me while we wait for Syryana to get back.

[Calcifer]

It's a nice little fun discussion for day one honestly. I have no fucking idea who Varsoon is.

There is also plenty of other things to do.

Calcifer? Is it just me, or for a rev post does this ping a little?

Rev's postings have been pinging for me in little ways all game. Mastin disagrees, so I'm sitting back and watching him for now.
But yeah, that stinks.

Ah, makes sense. Well, I didn't do it for reaction tests. I did it just to generate more discussion.

What do you think of the discussion that has been going on without your reaction test?

Yeah, might be scum, but to be honest I'd be more worried about

VOTE: Zdenek

I'm seriously doubting Zdenek scum.

Thanks.

But since we're on the subject I'm a bit surprised I'm still being townread so easily despite said game.

Should I be a bit worried

No.

Oh yeah, most of the times it's obvious, but for the times that it isn't I need Mastin and Nacho to sign their posts please thanks

I can't tell the two of you apart :/

Sucks for you.

I want to hang this scummy thing in the temple of all that is sacred.

Have you read any of our posts since that one?

Nacho played that game, so I'd like to hear his thoughts.

He's been playing to his scum meta so far. It usually takes longer to sort him out, though.

[Calcifer]

VOTE: calcifer

I love you too, orcinus.

give names preferably I cannot be bothered with a full reads list.

Why not?

calcifer I'm still reading as town, but serene's reason for voting is certainly noted.

Do you agree with it?

Oh and I think stubbs is looking more of recent.

I agree.

Calcifer has entered the thread-not as an uninformed townie-but as one who knows more.

I always enter threads as if I know more. The head that's played with me before should know that.

A plan that his hydra buddy is not on board with.

The dissonance shrines forth from his true self.

Do you really think it's that important to sync up in the RVS? I certainly don't.

he will be looking for potential chasms and weak spots in town's infrastructure.

What do you think of Shadi?

No but seriously, this is his town meta, my goodness. It’s blindingly obvious. Go metadive him.

Talk to me about it.

^ I can see this slot as scum

So can I!

I'm tired of trying to explain and no-one is backing me up. No point in continuing a lost cause, I suppose

see this here

this is scum too

Nope.

Dear Crabd, Would I be able to catch you as scum by looking at your scum game? Or would it look eerily like your town game? Hmmmm....

Is all you have to comment on Cabd's town meta read of Shadi...? Even though you don't want Shadi to get lynched...?

Also, does anyone have any idea why mafiascum would be logging me off every time I try to add a quotation to my post? It seriously made that catchup take like 2x as long as it should have >:C

That also happens to me sometimes. No idea why.

[Calcifer]

/The other head of Calcifer.
You, uh, don't wanna know how far back I am.

Haven't been keeping up, and Nacho hasn't been yelling at me for my opinion that much, so kinda been putting this game off.

Don't worry, will get back into it. Now, consider me to be a replacement who just came in and has no clue what's going on in the game. (Not nearly as inaccurate as you'd think. ) Give me a summary of what's gone on in these 40 pages.

[Calcifer]

Leaning town.

Could be some residual guilt involved. I replaced out of a game over an issue with the mod. Was so pissed I didn't post an update on my reads, and left him to the tender mercies of kuribo who eventually replaced into my slot.

But, despite his stance in that game, which does ring all sorts of objective-scum bells, I got a sense of town motivation out of it all eventually.

I just finished a newbie game with Shadi, I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that he's scum so I hope that wagon is buried in the ground by now.

don't have time to catch up now but I have time for this!

Vote: BulbaFenix

[Calcifer]

Yes we have

And Shadi's wall is ass

But town.

but also because I like the idea of all the hydras being town together.

This is weird and I have no idea why you said this.

Normally when I've seen town super secret hydras, they are not worried about being lynched should the heads become known, rather, they're worried about being NK'd. The fact that Serene said lynched suggests that they're not worried about the NK.

But they're worried about scum lynching them, meaning do you think they are worried about being bussed?

Honestly, I keep flip flopping on him. He'll post something I'll believe is scummy, such as some of his initial cases, or his attack of Metal Sonic, or his recent push for town cred. But then he'll post a bunch of things that are strongly town. I'll probably watch him and see what I think about him tomorrow.

Better yet, you can show us the scummy things and show us the townie things. Maybe it will help you decide for yourselves, but at the least it'll show us where you're coming from.

I almost want to call him town. However, he's done a few things that I've never seen from him before when he was town in Voided's game. I want to observe him a little bit more first before I put him fully in the town pile.

His play here looks nothing like it did in Voided. Why are you reading him as town?

I don't like his blatant opportunism. I also feel that he and TIP are not on the same team, due to his #75 and TIP's response. If Doc is actually town, I'm actually going to take a second look at TIP.

I don't like this at all. Why does #75 & response make one of them scum?

And no I'm not ignoring it, and if you'd like I'll acknowledge its existence right now

Why didn't you acknowledge it before?

Well screw you bud.

Prohawk you're being extraordinarily useless and it hurts my soul a lot. Please stop being extraordinarily useless and either A) just be useless or B) be extraordinarily full of use.

Still pushing that Gambler's Fallacy, eh? Cute.

That's not anything close to Gambler's Fallacy.

I also find it interesting that you start posting up a storm right after I call you scum. Speaking of which, Dramonic is getting the attention he deserves.

I'm reading him as town.

I think I understand my hydra partner's thought process enough to let her do her own thing. I'll figure out her alignment eventually.

Ummm.

Why is something worrying you

You didn't notice this before?

GREAT KARMIC VIBRATIONS

orcinus_theoriginal

How cute. Bulba starts calling us scum after the site deleted our post where i referred to him as scum.

VOTE: serene

bulba stevie are scum maybe with orc

Have you been reading what Serene is posting or do you just want to get into a fight with him because it will cause a lot of noise and people won't be bothered to read either of you?

No.

he's not town, though

I didn't like the way bulba went after them.

so they're town because somebody made attacked them in a bad way?

come on

your push on them is atrocious.

This is like a spooky, ethereal Beetlejuice summons.

Syr and I were only minutes ago discussing on gchat whether to put a vote on your absent self or to vote Bulba.

When do you expect to be able to catch up?

probably not until next year, honestly.

[Calcifer]

It does lack a conclusion, true. Do you know why?

[Calcifer]

Leaning town.

Could be some residual guilt involved. I replaced out of a game over an issue with the mod. Was so pissed I didn't post an update on my reads, and left him to the tender mercies of kuribo who eventually replaced into my slot.

But, despite his stance in that game, which does ring all sorts of objective-scum bells, I got a sense of town motivation out of it all eventually.

I just finished a newbie game with Shadi, I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that he's scum so I hope that wagon is buried in the ground by now.

don't have time to catch up now but I have time for this!

Vote: BulbaFenix

the conclusion was already decided by fate

[Calcifer]

that's not mastin.

Could you reassure me that orc is town? It worries me that the towniest thing he's done so far is a shitty deathtunnel.

[Calcifer]

Also, I am pretty sure you picked up on the point in the thread where I decided to go with that.

I did.

What do you think makes my wall town, and do you agree it's "ass"? In addition, what makes me so town here? What difference did I in the newbie game? You must remember I was in a huge-ass pinch there and other than following Gameite's horrible gameplay I couldn't have done much.

No, I don't think it's ass. It was very entertaining. But I do think that the way you crumpled under the slot's pressure showed that you can't handle pressure the way you have here; I understand that yeah you'll play a better game when the slot is not one you inherited, but I think that if you were capable of faking something like that as scum I would've seen at least a glimpse of it.

[Calcifer]

So, Nacho recommended me not bothering to read the whole thread and to just get the gist of the happenings right now.

What I got from the last five pages is...not much. Metal Sonic looks town, Rift obviously looks town, too.

Selkies

orcinus might be scum (or not, now that I know it's him, but worth looking into further). Ankamius looks like scum to me, too.
Granted, both of these are partially reliant on BulbaFenix being scum. Though I certainly sorta lean that way, it's far from solid, regrettably.

Stubbs looks town, too.
Granted, still need 52 and 53, and this is weak-as-hell, but it's where I stand.

[Calcifer]

I'd like to discuss the Ankamius read. I thought he looked scummy early in the game, but later put him in my townpile.

What do you see as the alignment indicators between Ankamius, orcinus and Bulbafenix?

They both have something in common:

"you are ignoring person X in a 24 player game"

jesus fucking god you have no case on bulba

When I didn't know Selkies was orcinus, this statement stuck out to me as scum. Knowing it's him, I can see it being either alignment, but it's still making me think he might be scum, and should be evaluated further.

Fuck, catching up is harder than I originally thought it would be.

What's the case on BulbaFenix? That would be a good place to start pinning down some updated reads.

Doesn't look like town asking for the case on a player; looks like scum trying to soft-defend scumbuddy.

I told you it was weak.
Listen to Nacho; he's more caught up than I am.

[Calcifer]

The whole case on Dramonic is that he's active lurking and not saying anything of substance. As far as ProHawk goes, I don't think we'll be able to get him lynched today, therefore we're focusing on our other scumspects. I think we'll be able to make a better push on ProHawk's slot on d2.

-Bulba

on page 40 and this reads as scum to me.

Vote it!

That really reads like scum who lurked out of trouble and is now trying for town points.

What?

A lot of that decision came from the BP claim that I had not noticed, if I had acted so horribly here here the previous rounds I would have done the same (I think). Then again that was my only scum game so far so maybe I am wrong.

I also think the fact that you're telling me that I'm underestimating you is a strong towntell.

[Calcifer]

Maybe across scum teams. They probably aren't all buddies.

TMT is trying to get calcifer to do his dirty work and defend his buddy.

If this game turns out to be multiscum, we're speed-lynching Zdenek.

[Calcifer]

Calcifer, am I correct in saying you townread Stevie?

You are.

However, we realize that it will be impossible to get a ProHawk lynch today.

No lynch is impossible if you sell it hard enough, and I'm certainly listening.

It takes 13 to lynch, and we have 6 scum at most, and there are no plurality lynches. With that in mind, why would they be afraid of being lynched by scum, since scum do not have the power to enforce it? Unless they thought that maybe town would want to policy lynch them if we found out who made up the hydra?

I thought the assertion was stupid but I didn't think it was serious is what I was getting at. I don't quite understand how you come to the conclusion that
"being afraid of being lynched by scum is a scumclaim", though.

1.) Doc is scum and was being opportunistic and trying to incriminate TIP via a previous game. TIP is town that thinks that the rest of the town might fall for it and is trying to prevent it. 2.) Doc is town who is trying to use TIP's meta to show TIP as scummy. TIP, as scum, panics and says, "Don't listen to Doc."

3.) Doc is town who is trying to use TIP's meta to show TIP as scummy. TIP is town that thinks the rest of the town might fall for it and is trying to prevent it.

No?

Bravo BulbaFenix, you managed to bore me off your wagon.

This is more exciting.

VOTE: Calcifer

Please don't accuse other people of being boring, Serene. I want to feel what it's like to be pushed by a nice strong scumhunter who can make me feel like a man again, who can inspire me to post up a storm, but... your case so far sucks. If you want to pretend like you know me, bring the fire, bring the passion. You won't lynch me otherwise.

The point I'm making is, don't be so hasty as to give scum a win on a silver platter, like you did to me. I just chose a dorky checklist to make it.

You're wagon hoping so fast I'm pretty sure the CHP wants to write you a ticket for not coming to a complete stop first.

<3
I love you. Please be in my life more often.

[Calcifer]

If you don't want to play with dogs then stay on the fucking porch.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3408753

do you see what i mean

you are a fucking broken record

playing with you is literally so boring because everything you say is just repeated

do you actually lack the ability to say something original

for once

JUST ONCE

cool we've established that Serene is kuribo/pretending to be kuribo
how the hell is any of that alignment-relevant

[Calcifer]

your case so far sucks

My case sucks, but I'm right, is that what you're saying?

I'm saying that I'm ignoring the shit out of you because your case is a useless piece of nothing. Maybe I've just enjoyed the KARMIC VIBRATIONS poster because he makes me smile, but I feel you can do better and I WANT you to do better so we can dance and you can prove to me that my initial feelings were based on something more than your sense of humor.

and because "i'm not kuribo" is a part of his shitcase on bulba

and because bulba is town

why is bulba town and why does his shitcase matter when he's not really pushing it anymore?

[Calcifer]

Scumlist at present consists of Shadi, Stubbs, TSO, letters, and Bro. Lesser concerns include Calcifer (should be heavily obvtown posting by this point but isn't, RA is doing a little better on this front) and Brian Hollywood.

Hmmm?

[Calcifer]

Rift, my concerns with orc are gone.

[Calcifer]

????????

I can't explain things so well at the moment as you can probably guess.
But the basis of me being uncomfortable with you was your scumread on Serene and the manner you tunneled on them. It sucked a lot and I didn't like it because you were caught up in your stupid bullshit tunneling that didn't really make any sense anymore. I like your attack on me a lot more.

[Calcifer]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Vote: Cephrir

[Calcifer]

@Calcifer: The difference between those games isn't my alignment, it's my replacement-ness. This is just how I replace in.

No, the difference between those games is your tone. You are more uncomfortable as town, which leads to your more rambly posts. As scum, you sound more decisive and you throw your weight around more.

oh, good

glad to know that because i made an attack that you liked, that things that you found scummy are wiped from the board

do you usually do this?

i think not

If I found things that were significantly scummy against you, you would've heard a lot more about them by now.

[Calcifer]

Maybe I've got confirmation bias 'cause Nacho was voting Cephrir's slot on the page I started reading, but I really haven't been liking Cephrir's catchup posts. They seem to be attacking pretty much every single player Nacho has a townread on.

[Calcifer]

Ankamius: Slightly scummy early then fell off the face of the earth. Null.
Baby Spice: Null, needs to exist more but I expect that probably won't happen. Keeping an eye out for opportunism from this corner.
Brian Hollywood: Who?
Broseidon: Scummy, I've discussed this.
Calcifer: Haven't convinced me they're town, and I feel like they should have. A little scummy these last few pages.
DOMO: I've probably flip-flopped here more than anywhere else. I'll go with null for the time being, it's like he alternates alignments every post or something.
Masons: are probably masons.
KingCrabd: Got townvibes here early, haven't posted much recently.
BulbaFenix: I don't know that I really see this case, but I haven't loved them. Not too likely to join this wagon.
Metal Sonic: Likely town, but I wish he'd start playing.
Nero: Permanently null, may need to die eventually.
orcinus: My best townread by a mile.
ProHawk: Forgettable. Lean town, I guess.
Rift: Nulltown, haven't pinged me at all or wowed me like ffery did in Amnesiac.
Shadi: Scummy. Not sure where this wagon went.
Stevie: Lean town, seems like an easy wagon, don't care for those pushing it (as a result, not saying I townread Stevie *because* of that)
Stubbs: Nullscum, probably bussing Shadi.
TSO: Scum.
Goat: Who?
TIP: Nulltown, no reason to think otherwise really.
Letters: Scum.
Zdenek: Town.

I'm disturbed by my lack of townreads. This game is strange.

Oh god.

This post is scummy-as-hell. Like, seriously. Full agreement with Nacho now. Highlights?
-Lack of townreads is a typical problem a scum player often is faced with.
-The highly wishy-washy nature of the reads fits the scum profile perfectly.
*Related, Almost every single read on the list is left ambiguous.
-A feeling of needing to justify things which a town player wouldn't be likely to justify; essentially, overexplaining stances.
-In particular, the BulbaFenix stance reeks; he hasn't liked them, but he's not likely to join the wagon.

As just a few reasons off the top of my head.

[Calcifer]

Unvote,
Vote: BulbaFenix

.

[Calcifer]

Haven't read 62 or 63 yet, but a message to the primary member of the Serene hydra.

If my hunch is correct...I've seen your posts before, and I know that your posts here are you. (They certainly fit what I know to be your modus operandi.) But I'm going to try and do my best to keep your anonymity while also letting you know who I think you are.

Mr. Red:

(You got a better idea for an alias? I could give a full name alias, but I fear that'll make it slightly more obvious)

I know you have a beef with Nacho. And I have to thank you--a wagon on us is exciting. But a lynch on town is boring, and if you actually push this through, it'll be exactly that: lynching town. So, your wagon's great to motivate us. Honestly, this game

is

kinda boring to me, personally, and feels like a drag. So pressure should help me. But you're wrong about Nacho this game. He is town.

So, talk to me, here. I'm not going to ask "who are my other scumbuddies". Instead, I'm asking you to deal in a situation where our slot is town. Ignoring the HEAVY hand our slot has in tainting your reads (and don't claim that we haven't tainted your reads; if you're who I think you are, I KNOW that this fits your methodology), and assuming our slot to be town, what are your reads? Humor me.

[Calcifer]

Calc which head do you consider my primary head

The head I called "Mr. Red". (Full name--J. Idiot* Red.) I don't know who else is in your hydra, mind you. Heck, I could be wrong about Mr. Red even being a member of your hydra, even though a ton of your posts I can read in

exactly

his tone, matching perfectly what I've seen of his playstyle. But I'd say that he'd *probably* be the one posting the most (he posts a lot), and almost certainly would be the strongest advocate of our slot being scum. And while he

has

played with me, the scumread is far, FAR more probable to be due to Nacho.

Like I said, if I'm correct, he should know that I know.

*Not meant as an insult. Just part of the alias. While lynching me is certainly idiotic, the people on my lynch are by no means idiots.

[Calcifer]

I didn't say grudge. I said "had issues/beef with". Which meant what it means.
If Mr. Red is a member of your hydra as I thought, then Mr. Red has problems with Nacho. Said problems are not personal, nor a grudge in nature, but are still problems because they're wrong.

And I'm talking to him. I know that--despite a fondness for tunneling--Mr. Red

does

offer the occasional benefit of the doubt, and I'm asking him to give it. We're town, and let's face it, you're not going to live very long. You misreading us now means that your entire influence on the town could potentially be wasted, for exactly the reason I said: your reads on others are tainted by the wrongful assumption that we're scum. Thus, your entire reads could be off. And even if they're not, even if every single read you have other than ours is correct, the fact that your read on us is wrong and the fact that your logic for your other reads at least partially relies on us being scum, will make it so that others WILL discard your reads as being worthless, and you most likely being dead, won't be able to update them.

Which, again, is why I ask. Without us as scum. Reads. Heck, right now, Nacho's not being very talkative, so I might sheep you over sheeping him. (I trust Mr. Red to be competent.) But to do so, I need you to

not be calling my slot scum

.

[Calcifer]

"No one will pay attention to you if you lynch me because of personal beef?" Scum, please.

It's true, though, and you--being an experienced player--damn-well know it. Everyone's been there. I've seen it far too many times. "Oh, Mastin was wrong on his read on X, he must be wrong now on his read of Y." It's a weird hybrid of Burden of Proficiency and 7-for-7, in that it's basically a reverse-7-for-7. Is it fallacious logic? Heck yeah it is. Does it hold any logical validity? No, not really.

...But is it something which is used all the same? Hell yes it is. Seriously, you can't go more than a few games and

not

see this happen.

Scum is Stubbs, TMT, Ceprir Calcifer, Nero, probably BFenix...

Talk to me, here. Work with me, not against me.

You have me on TMT and maybe BulbaFenix. But none of the others. Stubbs I admittedly have not read much of, but I've had no issue with Stubbs's posts that I've seen recently, and in fact have seen them as being town. Show me why Stubbs is scum.

You've done a fairly decent job of explaining why you have Nero as a scumread, but not a good enough job for me to actually see him as scum. I'm ambivalent on him. I can see him as scum, I can see him as town, but you haven't sold me on why he's scum. Give me more. I'm listening.

But most of all, explain to me Cephrir again. I mighta seen him as being bad with his catchup posts initially, but his responses since he got caught up have been just about as town as it gets. And when I re-skimmed his isos seeing his caught-up posts, I just couldn't see him as scum anymore. Least of all when Rift Adrift supported this town-Ceph stance. So, again, talk to me here.

Don't go "lolscum, why would I need to convince you?"

We. are. not. scum. So get your heads out of your collective asses and talk to the town-us for a minute. Yes, we're town. So yes, you do need to convince us.

[Calcifer]

I already told you I don't negotiate with scum.

Look, I get it. You're fond of tunneling. You've got a scumread. You don't want to admit that scumread is wrong. You want to be right,

so

badly, and you don't want to be talked out of it. You've got arrogance. And you've got pride. And you don't like to talk with scum. But I'll be blunt:

You are not a scumhunting god

. I don't care if your hydra had some legendary scumhunter like Glork, or was made up entirely of the elite of the elite in Mafiascum.net's history. Your reads are not perfect. We. are. town. And the only people benefiting from your ego-trip is the scum. I'm playing nice, here. Don't make me rage against you. I didn't even have a strong commitment to this game, and now I'm apparently the primary player in this hydra despite how when I signed up for this game I explicitly said that I wanted to use Nacho as my crutch.

And I'll be damned if I'm going to let some fucking moronic stubbornness get in the way of you helping the town. You being a mason doesn't mean jacksquat if you aren't willing to be rational and reasonable. Hell, Vifam made a better mason than what

you

are doing, because while his reads were utter crap, at least he played ball.

My request is not unreasonable, and you damn-well know it. Work with me. Talk to me. We are not your enemy. So stop being idiots and antagonizing me when we need to work together. So again. Walk me through your reads. It's not too hard to do.

[Calcifer]

Cal, would you be up to a Cephrir lynch?

Hell

no.

Did you miss my post where I laid out why I see Cephrir as town? Seriously, Cephrir's town. Probably one of the worst lynch candidates on the table.

[Calcifer]

Calcifer, why are you voting BulbaFenix?

Because they're still technically a scumread, combined with the fact that--while I may currently be the dominant head--I still hold some trust in Nacho, and last I knew, Nacho had BulbaFenix as scum.

[Calcifer]

I'm shocked that you would be voting for someone one of you heads has as a scum read. I never could have deduced that from the fact that you are voting them.

Well, you

asked

for why we were

voting

, so I gave why we were.

To answer the better question of "why is BulbaFenix scum?", the answer is honestly, "not much from me; it's more of a Nacho read". It's basically gut. Mind you, haven't read the whole game, but a lot of their posts just don't come off as town, and give me some scum vibes. If I had more than that, I'd share, but that's about it from me. As I said, it's mainly trusting in Nacho.

[Calcifer]

spending four hours on something to be told your product is worthless is really demoralizing

It's part of the game, unfortunately.

One of the reasons I kept Cephrir in my scumpile for much of the amnesiac game (while I was in it and afterwards) was because his posts came off as hedgy to me. Another reason was that the posts also came off as a little wordsmithed. And the final reason was his first post after day 2 started because I want to lynch cheerleading/reverse cheerleading with fire every time I see it.

Taking a closer look at Cephrir is officially on my to do list.

I don't really object to Calcifer

Why do you think that we're scummy?

Based on this post? I disagree.

Lets see... you have BRO who unvoted, didn't re-vote despite having other scum-leads, said he was going to read the thread to get a better idea of who to go for... starts fishing around to see exactly how many masons there are which he subsequently gets heat for, then splits to return five days past the point of where he said he was going to re-evaluate the thread with no re-evaluating done... and no, he at least wasn't too busy to be active on-site, so what exactly isn't scummy about that?

Why are you interacting solely with BulbaFenix?

What are your thoughts about Cephrir's post catch-up posts?

I didn't like them when I read them; his scum/town list feels empty, and I don't like that he tried to appeal to us/work with us before jumping on the "oh calcifer is scum wagon".

Where do you stand on Bulba now?

I'm leaning more town. I liked his push on ProHawk in particular, and plan on exploring the hell out of that avenue in a moment.

VOTE: Calcifer

I'm getting those weird vibes almost half the time he posts now. I would post an actual case, but I'm not interested in having to read another ten damn pages of virtually nothing while I make it.

You could make a case without reading those 10 pages. ISOs are a beautiful thing.

Also WTF was that "deadline is approaching quickly" shit. Did he mean to post that somewhere else, perhaps? Scum might have daychat, not sure, is Encryptor defined as normal?

Somehow, I think it's incredibly unlikely for Brian to fuck up posting in a quicktopic and in a thread.

Well, to be fair, I expected pope to follow right along. It's what he does.

Shadi sheeping us is a bit more off, but whatever.

Why did you use the word "us"?

[Calcifer]

spending four hours on something to be told your product is worthless is really demoralizing

It's part of the game, unfortunately.

One of the reasons I kept Cephrir in my scumpile for much of the amnesiac game (while I was in it and afterwards) was because his posts came off as hedgy to me. Another reason was that the posts also came off as a little wordsmithed. And the final reason was his first post after day 2 started because I want to lynch cheerleading/reverse cheerleading with fire every time I see it.

Taking a closer look at Cephrir is officially on my to do list.

I don't really object to Calcifer

Why do you think that we're scummy?

Based on this post? I disagree.

Lets see... you have BRO who unvoted, didn't re-vote despite having other scum-leads, said he was going to read the thread to get a better idea of who to go for... starts fishing around to see exactly how many masons there are which he subsequently gets heat for, then splits to return five days past the point of where he said he was going to re-evaluate the thread with no re-evaluating done... and no, he at least wasn't too busy to be active on-site, so what exactly isn't scummy about that?

Why are you interacting solely with BulbaFenix?

What are your thoughts about Cephrir's post catch-up posts?

I didn't like them when I read them; his scum/town list feels empty, and I don't like that he tried to appeal to us/work with us before jumping on the "oh calcifer is scum wagon".

Where do you stand on Bulba now?

I'm leaning more town. I liked his push on ProHawk in particular, and plan on exploring the hell out of that avenue in a moment.

VOTE: Calcifer

I'm getting those weird vibes almost half the time he posts now. I would post an actual case, but I'm not interested in having to read another ten damn pages of virtually nothing while I make it.

You could make a case without reading those 10 pages. ISOs are a beautiful thing.

Also WTF was that "deadline is approaching quickly" shit. Did he mean to post that somewhere else, perhaps? Scum might have daychat, not sure, is Encryptor defined as normal?

Somehow, I think it's incredibly unlikely for Brian to fuck up posting in a quicktopic and in a thread.

Well, to be fair, I expected pope to follow right along. It's what he does.

Shadi sheeping us is a bit more off, but whatever.

Why did you use the word "us"?

[Calcifer]

If Nero flips scum that unvote from TIP will look shady. I'm liking this lynch better than I did before the premature essentially-scum-claim.

See, Cephrir. This is your problem. It's posts like this which keep Nacho from townreading ya, 'cause your logic here is entirely backwards.

If Nero flipped scum, that unvote from TIP would practically make him conftown. Scum when their scumbuddy is wagoned and clearly going down (1-shot rolecop is not a claim which will ever save a player) want the towncred. Scum when their scumbuddy is wagoned need to remain on the wagon in order to have any chance of earning that towncred. Thus, when their scumbuddy botches a claim (in this case, by claiming something which doesn't stand a realistic chance of saving him), they

push the wagon harder

, and don't jump off.

If Nero flipped town, you could maybe,

maybe

make the argument that TIP jumping off makes him scum for having instantly believed the claim when no sane townie would, but again, I quite frankly don't find that very likely.

[Calcifer]

Who is on your scumlist, Rift?

bulba, TMT, The Goat, possibly Cephrir but my stance has softened on him. T S O's read is stale. And there are things about Shadi's play as the game developed that worry me at times.

I'm reasonably certain Cephrir's town, so you can drop him. Nacho's read on Shadi is probably a bit dated (you'd have to ask him), but last I checked, he saw Shadi as town. I've at times agreed with you, but

overall

, I agree with Nacho's townread, there, because Shadi's posts just have an air of sincerity around 'em.

So, can you talk to me about Goat and TSO? I guess also BulbaFenix (since, again, not strong read), though the other two are more important. (That said, I vaguely recall having Goat as a scumread way back when, but that opinion's so dated that I'm not sure how valid it is. )

[Calcifer]

I wish you had gone off on Bulba.

Two of our 3 heads went full RAGECAP on him and don't even think we recruited one player to the wagon.

Ironically enough for someone calling us scum, you sure seem to be ignorant of our vote; it was shortly after you made your BulbaFenix case that Nacho first switched to BulbaFenix.

[Calcifer]

Oh, and...

p sure Calcifer isn't on the wagon. His vote was on bulba last I checked.

That's even scummier.

Quite aware of it. But I made a conscious decision that I was not going to be part of the Nero wagon. Even considered making a sarcastic post about refusing to bus my scumbuddy Nero and waiting for Nacho to dirty his hands on it instead. But truth is, I just didn't feel it. "That's a load of bull, you're telling me you didn't join because you 'did not feel it'?"

...Yeah.

If you got a problem with that, you're free to try and lynch me tomorrow. Won't work then just as it didn't work today.

[Calcifer]

orcinus, calcifer - what do you make of the kill choices?

I like ProHawk dying but both dying together makes no sense unless both scumteams used their kills to scumhunt.
or one scumteam and a vig.

[Calcifer]

orcinus, calcifer - what do you make of the kill choices?

Well, neither kill really looks like a typical scum kill. Pro-Hawk's much closer to a typical scum kill, but TIP is not generally who I'd expect to see scum kill. I'm hoping I'm wrong about it being a vig trying to get rid of an annoyance, 'cause while TIP may have been annoying to a lot of people, he was obvtown from it, so would be a horrible vig shot.

Basically, it fits far better the profile of a SK or second-scumteam, though obviously, it'll be impossible to tell which 'til we get more flips.

But that's just me. I'm generally guessing you were asking Nacho instead.
(Nobody wants Mastin. It's always Nacho. )

[Calcifer]

Looks like we're multiball, if either were vigged then we have a bad vig imo.

I see zdenek and bulba have both voted and neither look like they have considered how the night kills might effect their reads. There's some basic town motivation lacking right there. Neither explain their stevie vote, or comment on the mislynch which they were both part of. Dodgy as fuck.

Both those who were NK'ed were on the mislynch. So were the masons. The remaining pool deserve the most scrutiny as we begin today.

That's- Rift Adrift, Zdenek, KingCrabd, Shadi1337, Baby Spice, Cephrir, BROseidon, BulbaFenix, StevieT92

My scum pool right now is zdenek, bulba, BRO and cephrir. I doubt very much all four are scum on the same team, it would be crazy for all to join the mislynch and then kill a townie who was on the wagon, but they could be split into different teams.

I intend to catch up fully in the next 24 hours.

Domo's a Mastin alt. Totally. (This is pretty much exactly in line with my own thoughts--AKA, DOMO is town.) Rift and KingCrabd can be removed.

[Calcifer]

I think I replaced TSO, but I have no idea what the hell he's posted. I'm only on Page 10. Waving through RVS now.

Sorry for being confused :u

(TSO's slot totally looks like scum.)

[Calcifer]

By the way, the Stevie wagon sucks.

I don't really like pretty much most of the names on it at all.

And since I don't see Nacho placing a vote, might as well start out with...

Vote: BulbaFenix

.

[Calcifer]

@ Calcifer

I must ask you a question about your action last night. Who did you target? I only need to know the name of the target.

I didn't target.

[Calcifer]

Why are you so reluctant to bus?

Because I'm Mastin. Duh. Bussing never works out for me.




In all seriousness, strange as it may be, I have Stevie as town.

Also, we didn't target anyone.

[Calcifer]

We stayed up all night laughing over you lynching the one townie in our scumlist, so we ended up missing our roleblocking action and we let you track us
Worked out better for all of us that way, I think.

[Calcifer]

@Me:

III) If no action is received, no action will be taken. All actions received after the deadline has passed will not be valid.

Correct!

[Calcifer]

I don't like prohawk dying. It does look like possibly scumhunting given some of the insane-looking scumpiles that were bandied about on day 1. But night 1 isn't really the optimal time for scum teams to go after each other IMO.

It really, really isn't. That doesn't mean they don't still do it.

[Calcifer]

@Me:

III) If no action is received, no action will be taken. All actions received after the deadline has passed will not be valid.

Correct!

This was already stated.

[Calcifer]

've no idea if this actually constitutes a read, just noticing that it's not the normal way other people post.

Why'd you start to back away from this read?

[Calcifer]

VOTE: Calcifer

Who are the other two players in this hydra?

[Calcifer]

You are now suspecting me for being wishy-washy and for not being wishy-washy enough

It should be clear that two separate people are suspecting you.

I didn't like them when I read them; his scum/town list feels empty, and I don't like that he tried to appeal to us/work with us before jumping on the "oh calcifer is scum wagon".

When did I do this?

@Calcifer: The difference between those games isn't my alignment, it's my replacement-ness. This is just how I replace in.

No, the difference between those games is your tone. You are more uncomfortable as town, which leads to your more rambly posts. As scum, you sound more decisive and you throw your weight around more.

Give me time. I think it's a product of reading everything in hindsight rather than as it happens.

[Calcifer]

VOTE: Nero

yeah no this hammer sucked horribly.

Any reasons for voting Stevie? Any info of any kind?

Useless.

Peregrine, can you watch him closely for prods?

[Calcifer]

Calcifer, surrender.

Are you claiming that my assertion that I did not target anyone last night is false?

[Calcifer]

Calcifer, surrender.

Are you claiming that my assertion that I did not target anyone last night is false?

Your scum faction killed ProHawk.

You need a fake tracker guilty and you're still going to fail to lynch me? Mastin thought Bacde was in this hydra, but I'm doubting it at this point. Who are you?

[Calcifer]

Hm, alright. I wouldn't say I hopped on the you-being-scum wagon so much as thought it was a possibility, and I wouldn't call that post trying to work with you, but appeal, sure. I mean, given that I didn't feel extremely certain about your alignment, why wouldn't I appeal to you? But okay, you can have that one. On the first part, yes, I know that, but you are a hydra and should try to at least sort of reconcile your reads, even though no hydra on this site actually does that, I'm still going to be slightly peeved at you about it.

this was more town.

[Calcifer]

Vote: Thirdkoopa

I swear I'll catch up, but if anyone thinks it's a better idea to just get a tl;dr (Even though I feel that's pretty anti-town) that would be good for now since we're far after RVS. At least, I hope we are... Right?

"If anyone thinks that this antitown thing is a good idea, then let's do it!"

[Calcifer]

I am a Mason so I am not a tracker.

I'm just reading between the lines of your posts. Your team killed ProHawk.

oh wait you're claiming mason???
that means you have a partner, which means you're mafia!

[Calcifer]

Just remind me, when did I go from Town to Scum again?

Serene you started off well

like, really well

and now? you're in the scumpile

gj, kuribrah

Ffery, here are two TSO posts I think you'll enjoy.

[Calcifer]

Well, I was about to say I was coming around to stevie being town, but then the past two pages or so happened. WTF?

TBH for now, I'm lynching from a pool of {Stevie, Hollywood, TMT} but I'm thinking my TMT read needs to be reset after pulling some light metaskims and seeing him get mislynched pretty much in every completed town game he has.

VOTE: stevie

Cabd, how did metadiving go?

[Calcifer]

Oh look Calciscum is trying to make KingCrabd do his dirty work.

I don't know who you are, but you're making it very difficult for me to find scum, so if you could stop antitown stuff, that would be great. Work with me here, not against me.

I'd recommend ignoring him. Why is TMT staying in your lynchpool?

[Calcifer]

What are we going to do about Brian Hollywood?

[Calcifer]

What are we going to do about Brian Hollywood?

Cabd!

[Calcifer]

We're in all likelihood going to get around to lynching him if he doesn't start playing the game.

We have him and Goat and Thirdkoopa who can all die instant deaths from where I'm standing. I'm still looking for more.

[Calcifer]

Rift, yesterday you called bulba's nero vote a bus. With nero's townflip, I see you voted bulba again. Can you explain what changed/what didn't change?

that was syryana

[Calcifer]

Rift, yesterday you called bulba's nero vote a bus. With nero's townflip, I see you voted bulba again. Can you explain what changed/what didn't change?

that was syryana

Notice I said "rift" not "ffery"

you don't know how syryana works, do you?

[Calcifer]

VOTE: DOMO

Ank, where have you been floating lately?

Nero really shows the same asshat style from that other game, but the posting is different.
There isn't the same scum hunting going on here though.

So you're sheeping, but in different words. Why?

Hmm... This is TSO's slot right? This could be scum.

It's certainly looking like scum to me!

you got pissed on more than me today

i'll take your bet didnt i say that 3 times

if nero is scum i allow you to piss on me

loyalty

nero wasn't scum. i'm not scum.
can you stop sheeping him and start sheeping me?

[Calcifer]

What are we going to do about Brian Hollywood?

For the time being my plan was to hope he gets replaced.

Get back to me if he's still here D3 or D4.

Cephrir can we not do this because it's a horrible thing?

[Calcifer]

Let Brian Holliday live until Day 3 or Day 4 if he keeps this kind of play up.

[Calcifer]

Let Brian Holliday live until Day 3 or Day 4 if he keeps this kind of play up.

I might agree with you if Goat weren't doing the same thing only worse.

so you agree that goat should also die?
what's preventing you from voting them now?

[Calcifer]

Town

Serene
Dramonic

Lean town

KingCrabd
orcinus
Zdenec
DOMO
Ankamius
Calcifer
Cephrir
Metal Sonic
StubbsKVM

Null-Town

Shadi1337
StevieT92
Baby Spice

Scum/Leaning Scum

The Goat
Thirdkoopa (T S O)
Brian Hollywood
BulbaFenix

Want to rethink

BROseidon
TMTOLBTWNTOF

I dunno about Nacho, but *I* certainly love ya.

This list is awesome. Other than one or two players I'm iffy about (Zdenek and Ank), this is actually right in line with my thoughts. (And even the players I'm iffy on, are not very strong reads.)

[Calcifer]

Let Brian Holliday live until Day 3 or Day 4 if he keeps this kind of play up.

I might agree with you if Goat weren't doing the same thing only worse.

so you agree that goat should also die?
what's preventing you from voting them now?

I'm too busy voting Thirdkoopa, and if I wasn't voting him I'd probably be voting letters.

There are a lot of players in this game who need to die.

I don't really think letters is scum this game.

Why do people still see Serene as strong town after what happened last round?

Mason claim, general play.

Funny this was the same guy who backed me up as town first day after coming out and getting discussions for me "being scum"

You focus on him calling you town and switching on that read, you don't focus on anything else. Why?

[Calcifer]

VOTE: BulbaFenix.

[Calcifer]

calcifer you are not reaching out to me at all

I usually don't.

Simple. My vote is on him and its not being removed.

This is horrible. You're voting for a town player and have no intent to make yourself useful?

Is he town? Because I have not seen a shred of evidence that proves he is. Unless you would care to make yourself useful and give me a good reason he's town cause unless I missed it I have not seen anything official thus makes him town.

He was confirmed as innocent child a while ago.

Can you explain to me why...at approximately 9 pm EST yesterday, you suddenly decided to go bonkers and point fingers at lowfliers?

It's understandable if it's something you'd been doing all game...but you haven't.

There are lots of scum in low fliers and will be free lynches when we find them. So I want to find them.

[Calcifer]

He was confirmed as innocent child a while ago.

what?

I was hoping Brian Hollywood would have an interesting reaction to that one.

Everyone who is voting BulbaFenix for their "slip" is an idiot who doesn't understand dialectic variation. Seriously, go study some linguistics or some shit. Can we go back to lynching Stevie?

I still don't really understand why you want to lynch Stevie.

[Calcifer]

Why should we care if you care if he cares what you say?

What was the purpose of this question, exactly?

If anything, thus far in this game, the disinterested parties have been less anti-town than a few of the more active posters who have gotten into verbal slapfights.

Lurkers by their very definition don't really rock the boat all too much. That doesn't make them town. It also doesn't really matter how anti-town the loud players have been if you're still reading them as town. Are you still reading them as town?

[Calcifer]

Are you fucking serious with this post? This is the single most bullshit thing I've read this entire day phase so far.

Why?

Nacho reaches out as town and takes a lot of control

He isn't doing that

That's not exactly true. I tend to adapt to the town around me, which usually means I take control, but sometimes not.

[Calcifer]

It means to try to make what your saying less offensive or boat rocking.
I've no idea if this actually constitutes a read, just noticing that it's not the normal way other people post.

What is your read on Goat at the moment?

Regarding the meta on Calcifer, both heads, is it possible it could change due to them playing together?

That's mostly what she was talking about. What do you think of her conclusions?

I don't understand what your motivation is for pointing these out, if Serene is mason claim

Do you think Serene is confirmed town from the mason claim? If so, there's clear scum motivation with the possibility of confused town. Which do you think it is?

[Calcifer]

I considered it, because it does seem pretty bad. But I'd like to see the context of those quotes before doing so.

Okay now I'm at the part of Bulbafenix's contradiction. That does look bad. If nothing changes, my vote goes to him.

I like that you followed up on this.

Okay, some discussion about linguistics there. I can't say much about it, as English isn't even my native language. So I'll assume BRO is right on this. I'm still conflicted over whether to think Bulba is scum or not.

But BRO's linguistics talk was enough to pull you off attacking the contradiction?

The Goat: Leaning town. Although he should post more

Interesting. Why?

Stevie well I don't think I need to explain that one.

I'd certainly like you too.

[Calcifer]

to*

Stubbs, I was trying to get a reaction from Brian Hollywood. This was interrupted.

[Calcifer]

Vote: Thirdkoopa

[Calcifer]

In a game this size, with so many town-reading each other, things should be gelling a little better. Something's wrong.

It'll get better. It's just likely we have a long day ahead of us.

[Calcifer]

As I said, English is not my native language, so getting into a discussion about whether or not it was a contradiction would be a bit pointless.

Right, but it's strange for you to so readily accept something you don't understand.

I see. That was Mastin then? I'm not used to Nacho reaction tests?

Nope, that was Nacho.

I'm on Page 40 now.

Do you have notes?

[Calcifer]

Bholl and Goat don't mention a lot of people.

[Calcifer]

It's useless to get reads you can't use down the road. I also can't really see why DOMO's attack is scummy. Wrong, maybe, but not scummy.

[Calcifer]

What did you think of it?

I don't pay attention to that sort of thing in the first place.

[Calcifer]

If anything suggesting dram be vigged is a towntell

please don't say this.
please don't break my heart, cephrir.

Nacho bought up some cephrir meta that I've been going back to. Surprising that he hasn't gone back to it

Ceephrir's gone back to normal.

1. I have yet to have anyone answer my question- Is mitigation an action that is normally counted as a scum action?

I don't operate in scumtells. Is mitigating scummy? Usually, probably. Depends on the context.

3. Could you give me links of scum claiming mason that succeeded? From what I gather, it's not a conventional path to take.

It's not a conventional path. Does that make them confirmed town?

[Calcifer]

Geez, guys. You're going to give my game a run for its money.

Anyway, you have MY support for Ank (dunno 'bout Nacho), but I don't want you to lose focus of Thirdkoopa. Between the two, Thirdkoopa is a stronger scumread of mine, more viable as a wagon, less valuable as a player if we're wrong about their alignments (that is, Ank-as-town is more valuable than Koopa-as-town is showing), and has Nacho's support last time I checked. It's a better wagon in pretty much every single way.

[Calcifer]

The pressure comes off BulbaFenix and they vanish. I'm shocked.

VOTE: BulbaFenix

Hey, Serene. Legit question. Which between BulbaFenix and Thirdkoopa do you want to lynch more? They're both scum, and quite blatantly obviously so, but we only have the power to lynch one of them. Will happily switch to BulbaFenix if that's your preference.

[Calcifer]

For the record--I see Ank's claim as being BS, but I'm sure as heck not going to lynch him. With koopa being conftown-vig and having not shot last night, that means that there are still two sources of anti-town kills, and likely by this point kills belonging to two scum factions (rather than a single scum and SK). Which means it's their problem. Ank's a fake and belongs to a scumteam? Other scumteam will take him out. Ank's real? Well, he's real, we don't want to lynch him, and he gets nightkilled by one or both of the scumteams. And even if he doesn't...even if he's instead, say, roleblocked, that means that Koopa's kill WON'T be roleblocked, allowing Koopa to get a shot off. (Basically, Ank if he lives has to either realclaim a result, or claim to be blocked. If there's strong evidence suggesting koopa's been blocked, well, it's incredibly improbable that there are two anti-town blocking roles in play, thus, Ank's outted as a liar and we lynch him tomorrow.)

Essentially, though I find the claim to be doubtful, he's not our lynch for today.

Our lynch for today is the horribad posting of BulbaFenix.
VOTE: BulbaFenix.

[Calcifer]

Ffery I'm growing bored of protecting Stevie. That townread is getting stale.

Hi. Here's the tl;dr of this game so far...

>.>
I hate it when people give summaries when they're not posting crazy fast and could be spending time doing better things, you know what I mean?

Okay, so I made one part unclear: My suspicions on scum voting Stevie are basically because "lolbus" (if he's scum) because by then they knew Nero would get voted. If it's single faction, it more points to what I think. That, the middle of the wagon, and the fencesitting is getting me off.

Not feeling the Zeta/Beta (That's his name right?) wagon, so here I go.

Vote: Stevie

fuck so many people sharing a hydra as serenes

oh so you are scum after all. nice.

unvote, vote: thirdkoopa

Are you kidding me.

Incidentally I'm phoneposting but fery I promise you something good by the time you wake up (y)

I'm awake.

sorry can you go to sleep again something came up ;_;

I'm awake again.

And if I were her, I'd be horribly disappointed.

Also yeah, I'm probably getting roleblocked now anyways. >:

only if we're the ones getting shot!

Are you drunk, trolling or both?

trolling, but town.
call it a

hunch

.

Vote: Shadi

[Calcifer]

Ffery I'm growing bored of protecting Stevie. That townread is getting stale.

Several townreads are beyond their sell by date.

but i'm thinking that goat is town

[Calcifer]

Hey nacho/mastin talk shadi to meh.

i don't know where the fuck he's been and what he's doing but "MOD WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO :/" is not something i like leaving alone to tiptoe through daisies for very long

[Calcifer]

VOTE: BulbaFenix.

[Calcifer]

If you end the day before i come back i will be pissed.

[Calcifer]

Nacho I see you posting elsewhere. Get in here before the lock.

Hi.
I've been busy.

[Calcifer]

And it's funny because I asked one thing.
One thing.

[Calcifer]

I'm going to do a small catchup post like I usually do.
Then I'm going to do a more significant catchup post. If thread is locked by then, that sucks.

[Calcifer]

{spice, ank, bulba, Hollywood, maonic, stevie} maybe?

Both the townreads in that list have a positive utility to their death. Maonic immediately 120% confotowns serene and proves the mason claim that some people seem to be doubting. Spice because metal sonic all over again.

That is a horid list.

^^^shoot this^^^

Vote Bulba

I agree with Orc on the scum theatre comment.
In fact it reminds me of, well, me in a lovers multiball game bussing my partner.
Worked for a while too.

That should be L-1.


Bloody phone, had to do the factory settings thing.

^^^^

and it's funny because the short readup was pretty much useless.

[Calcifer]

I'm not so sure about this hydra anymore, not because Nacho hasn't townread me, but because I would have expected a precise case from him that I could dissect. However, they have not provided such a case.

(guess who wasn't reading you as scum anymore)
<----- this guy
90% of the votes for BulbaFenix have been from Mastin. Mastin has provided his case, I haven't provided a case because I was still sorting you out.

[Calcifer]

Mastin didn't provide a case. I should know. I kept asking.

-Bulba

you're correct, no case from mastin.

[Calcifer]

Ankamius - town
Baby Spice - scum
Brian Hollywood - scum
BROseidon - town
Cephrir - scum?
DOMO - town
dramonic - town
KingCrabd - town
Marquis - scum?
orcinus_theoriginal - town
Rift Adrift - town
Shadi1337 - scum
StevieT92 - town?
StubbsKVM - town?
Thirdkoopa - town
The Goat - town
TMTOLBTWNTOF - ???
Serene - town
Zdenek - town

these are initial reads.

[Calcifer]

Also, Calcifer how about posting a few short updates instead of one long one.

that's never been the way i roll.

[Calcifer]

damage control:

orc, your reads are inconsistent and your latest bitchfest with serene literally could not get anymore anti-town. Do you remember how Jake bitched and bitched about 2 in Bingo? That's essentially you here! What benefit does "oh, Serene needs to be silenced" bring? Absolutely nothing. And "I'm just gonna listen to DGB because kuribo is a shithead" is also more useless, useless posting. You think that I am scum and you honestly believe you can make anyone so much as look at me twice with "NACHO IS PASSIVE LOOK AT HIM", which isn't something that has ever worked for anyone ever. The difference between you and Serene is that Serene is actually pushing lynches through. What have you done lately in the grand scheme of things? Absolutely nothing. The burden of proficiency pulled on ffery on Day 2 is also completely fucking horrible and it's hard for me to see how that is coming from a town PoV. I know you've hydra'ed with ffery, and I know you've seen ffery as scum. It shouldn't be that difficult to distinguish her-scum and her-town and "she has two wrong reads" is not the way.

[Calcifer]

useless.

[Calcifer]

It shouldn't be that difficult to distinguish her-scum and her-town and "she has two wrong reads" is not the way.

iirc Majiffy said that wrong reads actually are a scum tell of mine in the buzzword bingo game. :/

hence why i don't trust majiffy in reading you.

[Calcifer]

then maybe we can work out some reads before you devolve into paranoia? it'll probably take me a while to reread the game, but.

[Calcifer]

why did it take you so long to find your role PM, MS? don't you know how to use search functions? didn't you want to know your role when you replaced back in?

[Calcifer]

that's what i'm working on at the moment.

[Calcifer]

Does it not worry you that Serene saw Nero as town but pushed the lynch through so hardly, anyway?

not really.
especially since there was no reason for them to say "oh yeah I totally thought Nero was town"

[Calcifer]

If you believe one is town, you don't agree to lynch him.

This is where you and Serene disagree.