Micro 205: Everybody's Being Watched Round 2 (Game Over)

[Belisarius]

/confirm

[Belisarius]

VOTE: Telo

The Devil told me to.

[Belisarius]

Bel, do you always do what you're told

No, I do not in fact have a set-in-stone policy for handling requests from the Prince of freakin' Darkness. I don't know whether to be complimented or insulted by the fact that you think I am so frequently in touch with Lucifer that such a policy would be warranted.

If you think that's worth commenting on, why aren't you voting me? That's not a rhetorical question, by the way.

[Belisarius]

So yeah:

/confirm
VOTE: Mala
I'm convinced that the kitten is just a clever disguise.

/confirm

(not sure if I still need to do this, but just in case...)

I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone confirm

after

daystart, since the whole purpose of confirming is to determine when daystart

is

. Pure speculation, but the only reason I can think of to have the confirmation phase in the forefront of you mind once the day has started is because you know that someone delayed daystart by not confirming in order to have more N0 discussion in their quicktopic. The typical strategy there is to have one partner confirm early and the other not confirm at all, so I'm thinking there could be one scum in {Telo,Baezu} and one in {everybody else}.

It's perfectly plausible that Baezu might have thought the post-gamestart /confirm was needed specifically because Telo confirmed after gamestart, and (Pot to kettle, I know) Telo hasn't said a peep otherwise, so my RVS vote is no longer RVS.

Also, the Egg wagon is a shitwagon. Seriously, L-1 for an "overreaction" that wasn't objectively an overreaction at all? Or is it for picking on TheGar for the amount of focus he is giving SH? In the latter case, I think that's called "scumhunting." Egg

might

be scum, but not for the reasons people have been voting him for.

Soft gut townread on Mala; she feels like the Mala I've played with before and I've never played with scumMala.

[Belisarius]

I know he's not at L-1, but I read the game, not just the votes, and there's definitely more intent to lynch than is presently warranted.

[Belisarius]

I know he's not at L-1, but I read the game, not just the votes, and there's definitely more intent to lynch than is presently warranted.
(post may appear 2x, got a 504 bad gateway)

[Belisarius]

Well bollocks. That was the best I had atm.

UNVOTE:

[Belisarius]

So far, Egg seems town to me.
SH null leaning town
dart town
beli null
mala town

Everyone else, not enough info. Please let me know if you'd like me to elaborate on anything.

Wait a minute...

Why did you explicitly call me out as null, and then say "Everyone else, not enough info," which is syntactically equivalent to null? Why not just list your town reads and lump me in with everyone else?

[Belisarius]

Why was I town before and now suddenly null Baezu. Please do explain the changes.

Seconded, but with the reads reversed; I made one post between those reads list and there definitely weren't any towntells in it.

Xegarus needs a gud 2 shot down da throat. I don' wanna hear none of y'all mothafuckas denying it

The case on Xeg/FuDuzn is exactly as weak and flavour-of-the-moment as one would expect from this early D1. What makes you

so sure

you're actually ready to decide on a lynch on page 5?

[Belisarius]

I promised myself yesterday I'd throw out a vote today even if I didn't have anything I really liked to go on.

VOTE: Baezu

I don't like the reads dissonance, Dahno, and you shouldn't either.

With regards to everything else, the pressure on Telo looks town-motivated, but she's got a point -- it's early D1, not having megastrong scum reads is

not

a scumtell.
FuDuzn's catchup walls look good, I won't be voting him anytime soon.

[Belisarius]

Bel, it's not so much that Telo doesn't have reads. It's that she seems content with that.

Stipulation rejected. I don't freak out if I don't

immediately

form reads either. That takes time and content. As far as I'm concerned, it's entirely alignment-neutral.

What specifically looks good about fudu? It's not just that it's a lot of words, is it?

I'm not consciously aware of what it is, it could just be my brain being an asshole.

I also have a tendency to townread people who attack me, but I'm aware of it so the impact is lessened.

[Belisarius]

Satan is telling me to vote Mala because of my unimpeachable record of being wrong, but fuck Satan.

[Belisarius]

Join me on Baezu, the Dark Lord will surely approve

[Belisarius]

A highly apposite move, good sir or madam.

[Belisarius]

Then wherefore dost thou not vote me?

That's not a rhetorical question.

[Belisarius]

Well, L, if you're having a hard time identifying the scum on Baezu's wagon, it might be useful to know I prefer scum. How does that make you feel?

Nobody else answer that question, I don't give a fuck.

[Belisarius]

Because I don't see a case on Bae aside from not contributing. Fudu's entire catchup was about how Bel and I are scum and he votes Bae at the very end for not contributing. Telo votes Bae for FoSing Telo. (By the way Telo, I don't see where you said Dart was a part of that team before...) Bel just seems to vote because it's the cool thing to do. Says he promised himself he'd vote someone and ends up being the third vote on the wagon. Then there's Mala's little comment about Bae's FoS and even though she didn't vote him, that's more pressure towards him that just seems off.

So basically the wagon is shit because there is no real case behind it and i'd be shocked if scum weren't using the hate to push a mislynch on him.

The wagon might look less shit if you were to, you know,

read

.

I very clearly stated why I'm voting Baezu; her reads on me and mala abruptly shifted in a very short period of time

for no reason

. No actual content had been posted between those reads lists. That kind of cognitive dissonance is not town.

[Belisarius]

If I was that wishy-washy, I'd have unvoted at L-1. I did not do so.

[Belisarius]

Did you read your own post? You know, the one where you said I voted for no reason?

Damn right I read that as an attack.

Also lol at "wagon hopping" when I've cast all of two votes.

[Belisarius]

I do feel Fudz could be scum but I'm detecting ego more than evil intent? In my (limited) experience ego has not equalled scum. May unvote soon, we'll see...

False dichotomy; ego and ill intent are not mutually exclusive or inversely proportional traits.

Not sure if they can help that fact

Of course they can't, but it doesn't make them unreadable. SH looks pretty town-motivated to me.

[Belisarius]

Bel, can you elaborate on why the hydra looks town?

Sure.

33 Explains actions logically with an explanation that makes sense from a town perspective
68 I'm seeing genuine frustration with regards to the "guess the heads" derail
92 Doesn't let the Beetlejuice tell pass, even though the rest of us missed it
152 Townhunting. Scum don't need to do this.
246 Uneasiness with the speed of the Baezu wagon

[Belisarius]

This is an incredibly weak argument for why he's voting me scum.

Also, his case for hydra town is weak:

In what way is it weak? If it's weak you should be able to pick it apart pretty easily.

BRING IT.

[Belisarius]

Baezu, how do you from 'I WILL VOTE ANYBODY ON EARTH TO SAVE ME!' to 'But I will only lynch these two people'?

Three (she said change her vote to those two), and does it really come as any surprise given that her reads keep flipping for no apparent reason?

[Belisarius]

Fuck. So it' looks like there's no way I'm getting Bae before the deadline, and I'm not willing to lynch Fu.

If my choices are between SH and Telo, I'm going to have to opt for the latter. I probably won't get a chance to check mafiascum again before the deadline.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Telo

[Belisarius]

Way to go doc!!!

What makes you so sure it was a doc and not a scum no-kill out of fear of the watcher?

Really? I read through your ISO and I didn't see any reason for a fud vote

I haven't seen any real reason to vote Fu from Dart, either -- Only Xeg forgetting where his RVS vote was.

SH, Dart, explain it to me like I'm five?

Not hopping on the SH wagon just now either. Nothing's happened to change my distrust of Baezu's read flipflopping, but something in the back of my mind is troubling me and I have no intention of voting until I figure out at least approximately what it is.

[Belisarius]

I'm going to make this VERY easy to understand

Jonny and timmy were playing basketball

Jonny got hurt and had to switch out

Jerry replaced jonny

Does that switch Jonny's team?

Xeg was scummy WHICH WE SAID, and Fu was crying to the heavens for us to read only his stuff which is scummy, as is worrying more about why we find him scummy then finding scum

Which is what scum do.

He already asked why we found HIM in specific post, which is scummy in and of itself.

That doesn't explain what was so scummy about Xeg, unless you are banging on about forgetting an RVS vote.

[Belisarius]

Bae, it's pretty self explanatory. If I'm VT, that's who I targetted. I think we should hypoclaim our targets last night. Watcher can make something up. Doc can be truthful without saying they are doc. If the watcher spots anyone lying, we have a lynch. Dart already claimed his so I followed suit.

I visited Baezu.

The problem is, with a no-kill, we learn nothing. Even if last night's lack of kill was a doc save, only the doc who made the save would know and they'd have to out themselves in order to give us....uh, useless WIFOM.

[Belisarius]

I just had a whole post about Power Roles and strategy, advantages to outing, etc...but it seemed anti-town so I deleted it.

Then why even bother bringing it up?

I still haven't worked out what's in the back of my mind with regards to Baezu, and after this much time, I think I'm probably not going to...but I'd rather try to figure out who the partner is first and maybe it'll come to me.

[Belisarius]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I don't like Dart's comment about the deleted post, and the more I doubt it exists.

VOTE: Dart8000

[Belisarius]

i also just noticed that beli was the first one to bring up the possibility of a no-kill.
given that he was not in the first run, it rubs me the wrong way that he thought of it so easily.
maybe he thought of it because he's actually the scum who no-killed? hm?

R~

Or maybe I, y'know,

read the fucking rules?

Or read or even skimmed skimmed the game linked to in the setup's wiki page?

Mafiascum.net -- where not only is not bothering to be aware of what kind of game you're playing is a towntell for some ridiculous fucking reason, but doing your homework is actually a scumtell.

How much longer can it possibly be before the television debut of "Ow, My Balls?"

Joh, you seem to be assuming no NK over successful doc. You don't seem to realize you are making this assumtion.

For the purposes of catching scum, it

doesn't matter

which it was.

[Belisarius]

Insulting us as AtE is not a great way to get us on your side

Sure is fun, though.

[Belisarius]

Mala, what did Belscum seem like before?

[Belisarius]

Hydra's Bae vote looks reeeeeeaaaaaaaaallllllllllllyyyyyy bad

Vote: Fuduzn

Lol.

unvote, vote hydra

No. Hydra dissonance is not a scumtell.

I think the previous

lack

of it is troublesome, but you can't have it both ways.

[Belisarius]

I said the vote looked bad and they changed it right away.

And you think that scum wouldn't know that?

SH is scummy, not thick. That makes their vote change null and your calling it out like that WIFOM.

[Belisarius]

Ummm isn't self-voting against the rules?

Depends on the circumstances. I came pretty close to selfhammering as town in a Voidedmafia game and didn't get chewed out for it. If Bae genuinely thinks the suspicion on her is preventing the town from doing other scumhunting (as town) or actually thinks someone would quickhammer and end the day early (as scum) it would be defensible.

Pretty town question, though.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Mala

I have only played with townMala and she's usually more engaged in the game than this. I'll settle for SH, but under no circumstances will I vote Johhog or (now) Baezu, and it would take a hell of a good reason to make me vote FuDu.

[Belisarius]

I have no idea what the deuce to think about Egg just now, or I would have said something.

[Belisarius]

This is wrong. I wasn't super engaged in the Clue game. For me lurking/being passive/not engaged is actually quite a null tell.

You were involved and perceptive enough that both Mollie and I percieved you as a significant threat.

Mainly Mollie really, but we lost, so I'm inclined to think I should have listened more.

[Belisarius]

Not today at least.

[Belisarius]

If he's a PR then why did he self vote?

Why would

anyone

town self-vote, except to avoid a NL?

[Belisarius]

Not sure, but both Egg/Beazu have self-voted this game. Does this above theory of yours mean they are both scum?

Nope; my point is that self-voting is never optimal play except for confirmed scum and trying to understand

non

-confscum self-voting is pure madness.

[Belisarius]

1 day remaining till the deadline btw

I expect to be online about an hour or so prior to the deadline, I will hammer if it is not done by then.

We are not no lynching today, but I'd still prefer Mala or SH over Egg.

[Belisarius]

Alright folks, I'm just gonna go ahead and declare a town win right now. SH actually has the right idea.

I'm the Watcher, and I watched last night.

Only one person visited Johhog.

VOTE: Mala

Lynch Mala, or lynch me to prove my claim and

then

lynch Mala. Either way, we win.

[Belisarius]

There's not really much she can.

The only ones who can know who a given player visited is that player, the mod, and the watcher.

I can demonstrate that knowledge. Mala can't.

[Belisarius]

No, I skimmed the other game with this setup before I even got my role PM. I'd have thought of it regardless.

[Belisarius]

if Bel is town and lying, but why would he?

But then I wouldn't know you visited Mala last night.

[Belisarius]

Night 2, and I could easily have lost the WIFOM game if there had been 2 scum left alive, or Mala had figured me for watcher, or she hadn't bet on a N1 global watch, or if town hadn't visited their scumreads, or if Joh hadn't been too obvtown for town to visit him, or, or, or...

[Belisarius]

It's a bit swingy, yeah; Town's chances are excellent when they lynch scum before the watcher uses their ability, but if the watcher dies or watches early, it's a different story.

In Mala's place, I'd have shot last night, too; I'd bet on the watcher being neutralised via Shaheed's Law.

I'd probably have hedged by shooting at someone being scumread in the hope of multiple visitors and tried to fake Joh out in lylo.

[Belisarius]

Might be better if there was some way to make the watcher CC'able, it could make the difference between scum having a chance and not if the watch occurs at/just before lylo. It's literally impossible to fake-CC, though -- all town has to do is make the claimed watchers take turns claiming who

one

person visited and lynch the claimant who inevitably gets one wrong. Perhaps give scum a non-x-shot watcher as well?

[Belisarius]

I actually wouldn't have RB'd night one in the hope that the watcher feared death enough to use their one shot early. No RB = no chance of RB'ing the watcher (since the watcher keeps their one shot if roleblocked)