Open 528: The Room of DOOM! GAME OVER

[Skelda]

I'll give reads as well.

Brian Skies- Leaning town. He is forming reads, making opinions, and trying to clear up issues for other players. I like his posts.
Yami- Null-town. He is being forceful and getting hung up over my changing votes, but asking a lot of the right sort of questions. He also answered my mason question in a way I liked.
Dessew- Null-scum. I disliked her comments, but at this point I am not confident in my suspicion. I would like to hear more so I can decide for sure.
JK- Leaning scum. His wishy-washy thoughts and refusal to vote are just odd, as well as the way he only voting when it became clear that he was a suspect if he didn't. Part of it might be playstyle, though.

P-Edit: Yami, my suspicion of Dessew was weak to begin with, and I was more or less just voting so that my vote didn't rot in my possession. I thought I made my weak suspicion clear when I first voted, but you seem to be getting hung up on something that just isn't a big deal. But the point is, I told you that I was going to Unvote if people started voting Dessew, and I've explained why when I first did it. Why are you getting so irritated when it happens?

And for the record, my read changed by comparison. Period.

[YamiNoKira]

P-Edit: Yami, my suspicion of Dessew was weak to begin with, and I was more or less just voting so that my vote didn't rot in my possession. I thought I made my weak suspicion clear when I first voted, but you seem to be getting hung up on something that just isn't a big deal. But the point is, I told you that I was going to Unvote if people started voting Dessew, and I've explained why when I first did it. Why are you getting so irritated when it happens?

And for the record, my read changed by comparison. Period.

I want you to be clear with your reasons for voting and your reads. You voted for Dessew because Dessew's behavior was odd and you wanted to express your opinion. Great. But when you changed votes (please note that I have no issue with where your vote is now, just what you said when you changed votes), you said that you do not suspect Dessew much anymore. That implies your read changed. I wanted to know why. Your only answer is it "changed by comparison". That makes no sense to me. If your read didn't change - you still find Dessew's behavior slightly odd- then why would you say you don't suspect Dessew much anymore? Either you are trying to defend your vote change by giving vague reasons (maf-motivated) or your read actually changed and you wanted to share it (town-motivated and I want to know exactly why your read changed).

[Brian Skies]

This has nothing to do with RVS; I've already said I have no issue with the post itself. However, there was more that could have been commented on, and the one post that player made ignored what happened so far and made absolutely no attempt on trying to contribute (outside of RVS).

I understand that you are trying to push the game along. But keep in mind that this is a forum and people have varying degrees of availability. Some people will come into the thread and post just for the sake of avoiding a prod (it will happen, you have to accept it). Also, there are at least two confirmed hydras in this game. Kubbs is one of them.

[Skelda]

Okay, but I don't know what answer you expect me to give. Dessew hasn't posted in a while, and so there is no real reason Dessew became less suspicious other than JK becoming more suspicious and, the fact that I don't picture them as scum together, from what they've posted so far. I dislike how you are forcing me into a box where there is no evidence because it is page 2. Dessew is less because JK is more. I don't understand what is wrong with that. There's nothing else I could say.

[Blue Bonnet]

Hi

[Skelda]

Alright, Yami, I'm going to try a new way of explaining myself. Let us suppose that my suspicions is my sight and I am sitting in a room with a bunch of writing utensils. For the sake of argument, Des is a crayon and JK is a pencil. At first, I look at the entire bunch evenly, when I notice something odd about the color of the crayon, so I look towards it while remaining very aware of the rest of the bunch. Then, the pencil moves and, of course, I immediately turn towards it and any oddity about the crayon seems insignificant. That is what just happened. I still think the crayon is odd, but I don't notice it as much as I did prior to the pencil's movement. Make sense?

P-Edit: Hello there. Nice to know you have a lot to say.

[YamiNoKira]

@Brian Skies

Okay, I get that. I would still like -Kubbs- to contribute more than RVS, especially at that point when there was at least something -Kubbs- could have commented on.

@Skelda

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of my questioning. ...I also think I'm looking for more reasoning than there is. I can accept that you're not as concerned with Dessew now that someone else has come along.

► P-Edit: Yeah, I get it.

---

Now then...

-Kubbs-:

Made one post unrelated to anything in the thread so far. Not very helpful, but not alignment-related, either.

Brian Skies:

Town. Explains his thoughts on various topics and not afraid to confront me. I'm slightly curious about his defense of -Kubbs-'s post, but I have no reason to believe it is scum-motivated at this point.

Dessew:

26 showed thoughts along the same line as mine, but I still have no idea what he meant in 19. Definitely needs to be more involved in this conversation.

phokdapolees:

Needs to comment on what's happened since his last post.

Skelda:

Town. Despite my questioning, he has responded well and is still trying to contribute to the game elsewhere (as in providing reads of other people).

[YamiNoKira]

I probably shouldn't be trying to do this so late, but anyway, more questions...

JKLM

Was there any point to your vote in post 7? Also, based on 12, do you believe scum are more likely to try to cut off RVS?

I don't feel like dessew has really done anything scummy. Yet. Well except

Eh

What were you trying to say here?

It seems oddly reminiscent to me as both of them don't seem particularly town, but idk.

They don't? Explain?

You aren't really allowed to use the newb card here, that was better left in the newb games themselves.

Do you really think by mentioning at the beginning of the day that it is Skelda's first non-Newbie game, he was using the "newb card"?

[-Kubbs-]

VOTE: Dessew seems like a nice starting point to me. But any more votes on you too soon and I'm unvoting.

VOTE: Vote: JKLM because you, not only do I not suspect Dessew much anymore, but you have been really fishy all game. I don't like it.

So what do you guys think about a skelda/Dessew scum team? I don't like skelda voting then saying he will unvote if anybody else's votes Dessew. What is the point of your vote then?
Then JKLM votes and, as promised, skelda unvoted and votes JKLM. Oh yeah, and Dessew is no longer a scum read?

VOTE: Skelda

Yami is probably town. Still undecided on everybody else.

-Karnage-

[Skelda]

VOTE: Dessew seems like a nice starting point to me. But any more votes on you too soon and I'm unvoting.

VOTE: Vote: JKLM because you, not only do I not suspect Dessew much anymore, but you have been really fishy all game. I don't like it.

So what do you guys think about a skelda/Dessew scum team? I don't like skelda voting then saying he will unvote if anybody else's votes Dessew. What is the point of your vote then?
Then JKLM votes and, as promised, skelda unvoted and votes JKLM. Oh yeah, and Dessew is no longer a scum read?

VOTE: Skelda

Yami is probably town. Still undecided on everybody else.

-Karnage-

For the umpteenth time, Dessew is not not a scum read, just less of a scumread now that JK came along. My goodness!

I really should have just FoSed Dessew, but that isn't my style. But you all need to stop fixating on it and move on. It is irritating me, and I feel as though I've given my defense on all of those points already. What about them don't you find adequate?

I want to hear Dessew's take on all of these goings on, I feel like that will reveal a lot.

[DoctorPepper]

Vote Count:

Skelda(3)

- Dessew, phokdapolees, -Kubbs-

Dessew(3)

- JKLM, YamiNoKira, Brian Skies

JKLM(1)

- Skelda

Not Voting(5)

- Blue Bonnet, Saki, ferretlover, Mutleyddmc, Metal Sonic

Vote History:

Dessew

- Skelda

JKLM

- Muttley, unvote, Dessew

phokdapolee

s - skelda

YamiNoKira

- Skelda, Dessew

Brian Skies

- Dessew

-Kubbs-

- Saki, Skelda

Skelda

- Dessew, JKLM

With 12 ALIVE, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline hits on Sunday, September 22, 9:26 PM ((expired on 2013-09-22 21:26:00) remaining)

---

Mod Notes:

Metal Sonic is

V/LA

Until Tuesday, September 10, 2013.
Will start lloking for replacements in ((expired on 2013-09-10 21:26:00) remaining)

[-Kubbs-]

Skelda:

Neither do I, its a lot of paranoia that runs rampant, but its better than NOTHING.

I read about RQS, and became very interested in it, so I think ill try it out here:

I literally just realized Mutley is in this game.

vote Muttley

HIYA MUTLEY HERP DERP

unvote

But really I'd rather not do that

So you chose not to RVS in you first post because you don't like it and offer RQS instead. Yet when you see muttley is in the game you RVS him. I thought you didn't RVS because its "paranoia"?

[Dessew]

I don't like how Skelda was fishing for Masons in his post I quoted. Yeah, sure, all of them should breadcrumb, so scum can easily find all of them... I didn't like his questions, either, but the answers pulled the trigger. Since it isn't clear for you Skelda: your vote on me was pointless, because you stated your intention to unvote. Never announce that you're pressuring somebody, it's stupid. Also, I don't see why would JKLM act so indecisive as scum. And you initially mention lynching him, but doesn't call him scummy, but later you correct yourself that you meant voting. If there're some votes on him, then what? And now he's your top scumread, because he's voting his top scumread. This is my case.

"I don't know about scum, but...": I wanted to be a little theatrical.

I like Kira, he's asikng a lot, and then states, too. Not afraid to get engaged with players, very enthusiastic. He's making a really big deal out of activity. It's okay that you want to use all our time until deadline, but calling out somebody only because he made only one post (his RV) in the first 24 hours of the game is way more than necessary. What past experience do you have with mafia?

Brian: care to explain #21?

[Brian Skies]

I know Yami from Epic Mafia, and he's one of the main reasons I joined this game. I wanted to vote him in the RVS stage but what I quoted came off as scummy to me.

[Dessew]

Sorry, I didn't specify. I meant: please explain why you found the quoted part so scummy that you didn't RV as you initially intented.
Also, if you know Kira from EpicMafia, then what did you ask this?:

@Yami: Are you an alt account? Do you play on other forums?

[YamiNoKira]

So what do you guys think about a skelda/Dessew scum team?

I think Skelda's town, so it's unlikely imo.

I don't like skelda voting then saying he will unvote if anybody else's votes Dessew. What is the point of your vote then?

Although I agree with the line of questioning... it's already been asked and answered. If you aren't happy with Skelda's explanation so far, what about it do you disagree with?

I really should have just FoSed Dessew, but that isn't my style. But you all need to stop fixating on it and move on. It is irritating me, and I feel as though I've given my defense on all of those points already. What about them don't you find adequate?

The issue came when you (heavily implied?) that your read changed, but the only thing that happened was a better target for your vote.

I don't like how Skelda was fishing for Masons in his post I quoted. Yeah, sure, all of them should breadcrumb, so scum can easily find all of them...

I'm just going to say that I do agree with this - it did seem more like a scum-motivated move (especially since scum can breadcrumb just as easily, making it useless to everyone

except

scum).

Also, I don't see why would JKLM act so indecisive as scum.

To avoid having to give clear reads that can be used against him later? It's fine if he's indecisive, but using that as an excuse to not give clear reads (even after being called out on it) is not okay.

"I don't know about scum, but...": I wanted to be a little theatrical.

Now answer the other part: why did you state that you liked my bw on an RVS vote?

What possible motivation

did you have to post that?

It's okay that you want to use all our time until deadline, but calling out somebody only because he made only one post (his RV) in the first 24 hours of the game is way more than necessary.

Okay, I went too far. I felt that since I had found something game-related to talk about (setup theory and Dessew's bw), just posting an RVS post and ignoring all of the game-related content was something to be called out on. Admittedly, it was still page 1 and nothing at that point really required anyone to respond to it.

[Skelda]

With my Mason question, I wasn't fishing. I hope no Mason would be stupid enough to actually claim Day One. I was looking to help prevent Mason claims and let Masons know when it would be advisable to claim ahead of time, since many of us will be dead by the time a Mason claim takes place. That was my logic, anyway.

Also, I thought it was dangerous to fakeclaim Mason in this setup, and if Masons breadcrumb and tell their fellow Masons the crumbs, it would be possible to prove a Mason claim later even when only one Mason is alive. I see nothing wrong with that.

Alright, yes, I feel like sometimes I'm not making myself clear. I did not mean to heavily imply that my read had changed more than it had actually, but since Dessew hasn't even posted in between my vote and unvote, there was nothing that he could have done to change my read, so I don't understand.

And also, I see now that my Dessew vote was a little useless, but it did its job of expressing my mild suspicion of Dessew, which still exists to a certain level. In the future, I will not announce plans to unvote since clearly that doesn't accomplice much.

[JKLM]

I'd like to apologize for the giberish that was yesterday. Eesh who knew senior year could be so busy. I sincerely apologize as most of the posts were on a day where I literally had not slept the night before. I know it's tactless to bring IRL stuff into the game but hey, stuff happens.

It's the middle of school so I'm going to make a CLEAR, SOMEHWAT COMPREHENSIBLE post. I finally got sleep so I should be fine now.

I'm just wishy washy as a person. Even when implanted a couple times a year ago, that's kind of the only thing in common.

Ill do a post later that addresses all the concern.

[-Kubbs-]

VOTE: Dessew seems like a nice starting point to me. But any more votes on you too soon and I'm unvoting.

Why do you want to bring the unvoting part up at this point? Wouldn't it be better to see what happens without you saying you"ll unvote?

I voted because I thought his behavior was odd and I wanted to express my suspicion, but seeing as he had rapidly just gotten two votes, I wasn't ready for a fourth too soon. What more reason did I need?

If he was suspicious, what's the problem getting a fourth vote on him? Isn't pressure the best way to see a players reactions?

That's all you have to say? I know we just started, but really? Nothing else?

Does it bother you that much? It was page 1...

This vote is mostly for pressure for now

Are you only voting him for pressure? If you are, why mention it?

not only do I not suspect Dessew much anymore

I don't suspect Dessew any less

which is it? Isn't it a little early for contradictions?

Alright, Yami, I'm going to try a new way of explaining myself. Let us suppose that my suspicions is my sight and I am sitting in a room with a bunch of writing utensils. For the sake of argument, Des is a crayon and JK is a pencil. At first, I look at the entire bunch evenly, when I notice something odd about the color of the crayon, so I look towards it while remaining very aware of the rest of the bunch. Then, the pencil moves and, of course, I immediately turn towards it and any oddity about the crayon seems insignificant. That is what just happened. I still think the crayon is odd, but I don't notice it as much as I did prior to the pencil's movement. Make sense?

If you say "the crayon doesn't look odd anymore" and then later "I think the crayon looks equally odd", how does that make sense to you?

Stubbs.

[Skelda]

VOTE: Dessew seems like a nice starting point to me. But any more votes on you too soon and I'm unvoting.

Why do you want to bring the unvoting part up at this point? Wouldn't it be better to see what happens without you saying you"ll unvote?

That is what I should of done. I messed up, fine. Let's move on.

I voted because I thought his behavior was odd and I wanted to express my suspicion, but seeing as he had rapidly just gotten two votes, I wasn't ready for a fourth too soon. What more reason did I need?

If he was suspicious, what's the problem getting a fourth vote on him? Isn't pressure the best way to see a players reactions?

I didn't want a bunch of people jumping on him too fast. That makes me uncomfortable.

That's all you have to say? I know we just started, but really? Nothing else?

Does it bother you that much? It was page 1...

Page one or page 30, there was legitimate discussion, which you promptly ignored.

This vote is mostly for pressure for now

Are you only voting him for pressure? If you are, why mention it?

That is basically what I did earlier, and doing so was clearly a mistake on my part. I don't blame him for it.

not only do I not suspect Dessew much anymore

I don't suspect Dessew any less

which is it? Isn't it a little early for contradictions?

That isn't fair. Those were taken out of context. In the second I was trying to explain the first's admittedly poor wording after you all attacked me because of it. I've given my explanation for this many times and I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

Alright, Yami, I'm going to try a new way of explaining myself. Let us suppose that my suspicions is my sight and I am sitting in a room with a bunch of writing utensils. For the sake of argument, Des is a crayon and JK is a pencil. At first, I look at the entire bunch evenly, when I notice something odd about the color of the crayon, so I look towards it while remaining very aware of the rest of the bunch. Then, the pencil moves and, of course, I immediately turn towards it and any oddity about the crayon seems insignificant. That is what just happened. I still think the crayon is odd, but I don't notice it as much as I did prior to the pencil's movement. Make sense?

If you say "the crayon doesn't look odd anymore" and then later "I think the crayon looks equally odd", how does that make sense to you?

Stubbs.[/quote]

I said "the oddity seemed insignficant". What about that don't you understand? The crayon's color is still equally odd, but in the moment and in the light of a new suspect, it SEEMED different.

[YamiNoKira]

it would be possible to prove a Mason claim later even when only one Mason is alive. I see nothing wrong with that.

I disagree, since scum can do that (breadcrumb) just as easily.

That's all you have to say? I know we just started, but really? Nothing else?

Does it bother you that much? It was page 1...

See my last post.

[Skelda]

it would be possible to prove a Mason claim later even when only one Mason is alive. I see nothing wrong with that.

I disagree, since scum can do that (breadcrumb) just as easily.

Let us suppose two flipped Masons are dead and the town is in lylo. Are you telling me that if the third Mason was able to identify very subtle Mason crumbs by his two dead partners and give his own crumb he wouldn't be nearly proven Mason?

[JKLM]

I'm still on my phone so I guess this wont be as conprehensive as I want it but its not like I have much to say.

First things first that is glaring to me:

Metaphors are not a good way to argue anything. At all. In fact Im pretty sure it's similar to a particular logical phallacy which name I can no remember. Although I do see your point skelda, don't use metaphors. It's bad debate skills. Metaphors often come off as purposely misleading in general, so I don't really favor them at all. Your use was kind of fine but it still bothers me in general.

I forgot who said it but someone mentioned what was the point of my Mutley vote if I didn't exactly favor RVS it was a joke as it was the first page. Please note that I literally unvoted in the same post. With broken tags of course, idk what I was thinking.

Honestly all of yesterday here is mostly a blur so I'm not sure what I was trying to say, other than that it was a bad feeling I had for dessew. As I said it was mostly to see a reaction. Of corse, someone Valle me out on it an I just said it was pressure. I've found in my experience, if someone points out the flimsiness of your pressure vote, it's better to admit it was pressure and fail at giving said pressure than To get people to think you're flimsy scum,
Especially I you want to be pro town.

Was that all? I'm not sure. I'm in a sound mind today so any concerns ill address or any questions on opinions ill answer. Otherwise I need to go back and look over what's been said again and think some more before I open my mouth again.

With that being said, good luck everyone, and sorry if my posts are dysfunctional for a bit, I get better, I promise you.

[Brian Skies]

Sorry, I didn't specify. I meant: please explain why you found the quoted part so scummy that you didn't RV as you initially intented.
Also, if you know Kira from EpicMafia, then what did you ask this?:

@Yami: Are you an alt account? Do you play on other forums?

If I find something that seems scummy to me or something that just doesn't seem right, I'd rather put my vote on that than RV. Your quote caught my attention and I didn't like it.

As for Yami, I play EpicMafia with him sometimes, but I don't know anything about him other than that. His current play-style betrays the idea of him being a player who has never played on a forum (or some other medium that's not EpicMafia) before.

Also, most of the player list has already confirmed. I'd prefer if they at least attempted to generate some useful content sometime in the very near future. This includes the other hydra.

Lurking doesn't help town when most of the player base is doing it.

[JKLM]

^what Brian said about content. Word.

And oh goodie, never really played with a idea, I somehow failed to realize kubbs is one. So it's two people using one account no?
It actually worries me on a personal level mostly because I don't know how to meta check Hydras.

I know it takes away from the pacing to ask a question but, what are the major benefits of being a hydra, as well as downsides? I just want Roget an understanding.