Open 530 "WSoB" (Stack the Deck): GAME OVER

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Post Post #12  (isolation #0)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:43 pm

VOTE: Hiraki

For not saying said reasons.

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Post Post #15  (isolation #1)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:16 pm

In post 13, Hiraki wrote:Brian wins the first town quiz.


I like winning.

But why unvote Venrob? What happened to said reasons?

Also

VOTE: Ankamius

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Post Post #19  (isolation #2)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:28 pm

In post 18, Hiraki wrote:
In post 15, Brian Skies wrote:But why unvote Venrob? What happened to said reasons?
There were no reasons, it was a test.


This makes me sad. Now there is this giant void in my soul that can never be filled.

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Post Post #23  (isolation #3)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:13 pm

In post 20, Ankamius wrote:
In post 15, Brian Skies wrote:
In post 13, Hiraki wrote:Brian wins the first town quiz.


I like winning.

But why unvote Venrob? What happened to said reasons?

Also

VOTE: Ankamius


This guy is town.


^ So is this guy.

VOTE: Venrob

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Post Post #35  (isolation #4)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:48 pm

And what makes you think Ankamius is trying to get himself lynched?

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Post Post #39  (isolation #5)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:53 pm

Technically, by your logic, the self-vote got us out of RVS. Just saying.

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Post Post #64  (isolation #6)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:59 pm

In post 44, Sakura Hana wrote:Credibility aside, what info is a self-vote going to give us?


Isn't this a question you're better off asking Ankamius?

In post 53, Sakura Hana wrote:Because the reasoning for it even existing is stupid.


I don't know about the others, but I'm voting him because his vote and following posts looked opportunistic and scummy.

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Post Post #66  (isolation #7)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:04 pm

The post you're looking for, Alduskkel, is #44.

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Post Post #68  (isolation #8)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:08 pm

In post 67, Sakura Hana wrote:
In post 64, Brian Skies wrote:Isn't this a question you're better off asking Ankamius?


Not only to Ankamius but the people voting Venrob as well.

Why are you guys defending Ankamius is a better question.


I'm not defending him. I'm actually letting him defend himself.

And I'm currently townreading him right now. If you want, I could provide an explanation for you, although only Ankamius would know how accurate it is.

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Post Post #70  (isolation #9)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:12 pm

It's not an opinion. It's the hint.

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Post Post #78  (isolation #10)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:35 pm

Saki's recent surge of activity is kind of shocking. Does anyone find it indicative in any way?

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Post Post #79  (isolation #11)  » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:35 pm

EBWOP: I meant Vierra Assassin.

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Post Post #86  (isolation #12)  » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:43 am

In post 84, pieguyn wrote:also, why shouldn't wagons on townies exist? Even if the person wagoned is town, then we can still tell from how people respond to the wagon information on who the mafia is. Saying the wagon shouldn't even exist is like saying we should just sit there and do nothing without even trying to obtain information, this scenario clearly doesn't benefit town = =


Slight townread on Pie.

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Post Post #87  (isolation #13)  » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:44 am

In post 85, Sakura Hana wrote:Would you build a wagon on an Innocent Child? Serious Question.


Who's the innocent child?

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Post Post #89  (isolation #14)  » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:46 am

In post 88, Sakura Hana wrote:No one in here obviously.


I was talking about metaphorically (I'm assuming that was your point).

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Post Post #91  (isolation #15)  » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:52 am

No, it's a waste of time. But I don't think such a situation exists.

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Post Post #112  (isolation #16)  » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:15 pm

In post 102, pieguyn wrote:@VA, Brian, Hiraki: just wondering, any reason for voting Venrob in particular?


I was already townreading Ankamius at that point, so I needed to move my vote. Venrob's vote looked opportunistic to me (I had already voted Ankamius so Venrob's vote looked opportunistic in the sense that either he was just jumping on the bandwagon or trying to get a similar response from post #20). I left the vote on him because I didn't like the responses in posts #24, 31, 36, or 37.

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Post Post #119  (isolation #17)  » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:49 am

In post 113, Venrob wrote:
In post 93, Ankamius wrote:It single-handedly brought us out of RVS.


SCUSE ME, not true. It got us out of RVS, but not single-handedly. I helped.


In the sense of what? Bandwagoning a self-vote because you thought you could get it lynched? Because you thought Ankamius was scum? Explain to me how you got us out of RVS. Because right now, it only seems like you're looking for towncred after getting pushed up against the wall.

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Post Post #136  (isolation #18)  » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:19 am

I'm still not understanding the wagon on Sakura.

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Post Post #161  (isolation #19)  » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:48 pm

Sorry about the lack of activity. I was pretty busy yesterday and today. But I found something really interesting during my quick catch-up read-through:

In post 157, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Somebody asked me something I didn't answer and I thought I did but I don't know (I'm mobile-ish at the moment). Do I think Venrob genuinely thinks it was scummy to self-vote in RVS? I dunno but I think that'd be pretty stupid considering the obvious intention behind it. At least it was obvious to me. Which is why when Brian (or maybe it was someone else, but I think it was Brian) had a town-read on Ank on page 2, it didn't ping me as something like that normally would. I almost posted about that.


I'd like it if you could expand on your thoughts about this, ETL, since you're the first person to notice it. Other people's opinions are cool too.

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Post Post #163  (isolation #20)  » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:36 pm

In post 99, Alduskkel wrote:@Ankamius: What's your opinion of Sakura? You just sort of popped in here to vote Venrob. By the way, I think that's just how Venrob plays. He explains stuff like that, I don't think it's an attempt at towncred. This is based on my experience with him in Open 472.

Then why were you on his wagon?

In post 103, Ankamius wrote:Leaning town on Sakura so far.

Reasons?

In post 104, Alduskkel wrote:@pieguyn: Disagree. If I can get someone to definitively say "this guy is town" or "this guy is scum" then even if they don't explain it they're still committed, which leaves less room for them to opportunistically get on wagons.

You do realize you've already jumped on two wagons, right? And both of your jumps look pretty opportunistic to me.

In post 128, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:I find Venrob's reaction to the self-vote EXACTLY what we should be looking for. It was a dirty, opportunistic jump on the first thing that could be called scummy.

How did I get a townread from this logic (still waiting for response to my last post)?

In post 130, pieguyn wrote:mb Sakura+Venrob team here? she was really defending him a lot, so for me, all of a sudden suspecting him seems like distancing and not a valid read. 0.0

I can see this as a very real possibility when following the logic in your post.

In post 131, Sakura Hana wrote:The flip flop is based on what Ank said, the thing is that Ank is as guilty, and it was reafirmed that venrob also seems to want to appear town on his next post, due to these events i re-evaluated my read on him.

And how does this lead to a vote on Ank over Venrob?

In post 140, Hiraki wrote:Do you think he really wants to lynch himself? Then the vote is a joke. If you think it's a bad joke and that it will lead to nothing, then go ahead and vote him. That's your reasoning and not mine. The problem with that, however, is that we do not lynch for bad jokes, we lynch people we think are scum. Town and scum can make bad jokes so therefore it's useless to go about trying to find something bad/good about the individual action of self-voting.

Well said!

In post 140, Hiraki wrote:The problem is that she used that as an opinion.

And the problem I have is that people lack the critical reading skills to see the inference.

In post 140, Hiraki wrote:No, but what were you thinking?

Meta reasons.

In post 148, Alduskkel wrote:ETL, how do you know Venrob doesn't actually think self-voting is scummy? Also, Brian voted for Ankamius, too, do you think that was scummy?

Okay, I was wrong. Alduskkel noticed it too. What is your opinion on this then, Alduskkel?

In post 154, JacobSavage wrote:But seriously, Venrob isn't looking total obvs scum so I'll be happy on Venrob town.

Explain.

In post 33, Sakura Hana wrote:notscience self votes in RVS all the time

js

In post 149, Sakura Hana wrote:Self-voting denies town information from wagon analysis, you know.

Maybe since it's RVS and ns does it as town... hmm

Unvote
While i think about it.

You had already mentioned this point. Why didn't you consider this earlier?

In post 162, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Something I always find suspicious is early town reads with no clear foundation. When I first read that post, I was like "whaa..." and made a note about it. After finishing the thread, and having had some time to think about the motivations behind several posts, I realized that you saw the same thing I did. Because your town read had a verifiable source, it isn't as scummy as it would be if you had no reason to call someone town based on the posts in the game to that point. Doing so would imply you have other knowledge. This is an open setup, so it's not like there are hidden PRs beyond whatever the mafia chose and whatever the town rolled in turn. Even then, the information one has to start the game is the same unless you are scum or the traitor, and the outcome there is the same as well.

The bold part is interesting to me and it gives me a townread on you (although I can neither affirm nor deny that we saw the same things, I do have confidence in it). Can you explain the underlined part?

Also, Pieguy is making a pretty solid case as town for me.

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Post Post #168  (isolation #21)  » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:42 pm

In post 167, Hiraki wrote:
In post 163, Brian Skies wrote:And the problem I have is that people lack the critical reading skills to see the inference.
Okay, so we don't get it apparently. So then why are you being butthurt and not just explaining it?

I'm not getting butthurt about it. But she has definitely inferred that she doesn't like the wagon.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it (maybe she didn't actually have a stance). But that's how I felt the first time I read it. If I offended someone, I apologize.

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Post Post #169  (isolation #22)  » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:42 pm

In post 167, Hiraki wrote:
In post 163, Brian Skies wrote:And the problem I have is that people lack the critical reading skills to see the inference.
Okay, so we don't get it apparently. So then why are you being butthurt and not just explaining it?

I'm not getting butthurt about it. But she has definitely inferred that she doesn't like the wagon.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it (maybe she didn't actually have a stance). But that's how I felt the first time I read it. If I offended someone, I apologize.

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Post Post #198  (isolation #23)  » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:08 pm

In post 175, Venrob wrote:YAY FOR META!

Unless you can provide me a valid reason for reading through those games, I'm not even going to bother.

In post 188, DoctorEagle wrote:21 For the record its weird how Venrob voting for Anakimus gets him a wagon, yet Brian Skies also does the same, and doesnt get anything.

Thank you for noticing. It's been bothering me that only like two other players have mentioned anything relating to this.

In post 190, DoctorEagle wrote:119 I dont like this attack, it feels like youre looking for petty reasons to attack someone. Yes he helped *get out of RVS* by the vote.

What's petty? The guy gets attacked and the best thing he could come up with was "OMG WE'RE OUT OF RVS, TOWNREAD ME GUYS!" Even though his vote and the ensuing wagon contributed to us getting out of RVS, I didn't see any town-motivation behind his actions and posts. And him asking for towncred looks like scum pleading the town not to lynch him.

Also, I already had a vote on Ank. If he really wanted us out of RVS, he could have attacked me instead.

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Post Post #209  (isolation #24)  » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:48 pm

@TNE: What are your reads right now?

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Post Post #215  (isolation #25)  » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:04 am

@Pieguy: I feel like it's easier if I just answered it all at once than trying to make a wall or whatever.

1) It was terrible wording, but what I meant to say at this point was I didn't understand why Sakura was getting bandwagoned (I realized my mistake immediately after I posted, but just decided to ignore it). I didn't like the reason Ald jumped on her (lack of commitment) and I still don't. It just looks like a terrible reason to sheep VA. Ald had already found a stupid reason to jump on the Venrob wagon before this. Also, some things got jumbled, I already sorted it out.

2) I don't believe I ever said I had a stance about RVS before I attacked Venrob. The problem I have is that Venrob is trying to use his vote as a reason to give himself towncred (something along the lines of he intentionally did it to get us out of RVS). But from his reactions, I don't see it. Ank's self-vote was the direct cause of us getting out of RVS and I already had a vote on Ank's self-vote. If he wanted to get out of RVS, Venrob could have (and should have) just attacked me. Instead, his vote on Ank just looks like an opportunistic and easy way onto the wagon (which was why I immediately voted him).

3) I'm suspicious of Ank (and everybody else, for that matter), but I never had a scumread on him. And the last quote is referring to Venrob, not Ank. This is my fault again for not using pronouns correctly.

I hope this clears things up. I'll answer any other questions you have when I wake up.

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Post Post #223  (isolation #26)  » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:38 pm

In post 221, pieguyn wrote:read my post plz

In post 215, Brian Skies wrote:2) I don't believe I ever said I had a stance about RVS before I attacked Venrob. The problem I have is that Venrob is trying to use his vote as a reason to give himself towncred (something along the lines of he intentionally did it to get us out of RVS). But from his reactions, I don't see it. Ank's self-vote was the direct cause of us getting out of RVS and I already had a vote on Ank's self-vote. If he wanted to get out of RVS, Venrob could have (and should have) just attacked me. Instead, his vote on Ank just looks like an opportunistic and easy way onto the wagon (which was why I immediately voted him).

what I meant was you claim Ank's self-vote was the direct cause of us getting out of RVS, then
Brian Skies wrote:What's petty? The guy gets attacked and the best thing he could come up with was "OMG WE'RE OUT OF RVS, TOWNREAD ME GUYS!" Even though his vote and the ensuing wagon contributed to us getting out of RVS, I didn't see any town-motivation behind his actions and posts. And him asking for towncred looks like scum pleading the town not to lynch him.

Venrob helped?

in fact I think focusing too much on "who got us out of RVS" is pretty much pointless. it's so ambiguous and sometimes there's a lot of things that go into it, plus scum can easily help too. = =

@1: still, you didn't understand why she was being wagoned, but then you said I was making a good case on her. can you explain that plz? mb I just missed it cause I just woke up @_@

@3: now that Venrob made a post explaining how he plays, what's your idea on how he acted?


I never said Venrob helped. In order for me to give Venrob towncred for pushing us out of RVS, I have to be convinced that he made his vote intentionally with that in mind. From his posts and reactions, I don't see it.

@1: So in the four hours between the two posts (assuming you mean Post 163), I can't go back, re-read, and try to make sense of it on my own? Also, I don't remember ever saying you were making a good case on her. If you are referring to the bottom of Post 163, I was saying that I was townreading you. And I did say in Post 161 that I was trying to catch-up.

@3: He seems quite intelligent and I feel like I can treat him like any other player. But I don't like the appeal to emotion. The other points he brought up were good regarding the set-up but I don't know why he bothered bringing it up. Speculation doesn't really help us at this point. His defense thus far has been weak and he hasn't done much to convince me he's town.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about Venrob.

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Post Post #238  (isolation #27)  » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:36 pm

In post 224, pieguyn wrote:anyway, what's your opinion on Sakura? especially the contradiction I pointed in my post

Although I don't like how the wagon started on her (the lack of commitment thing is bs and Ald should feel bad), I'm leaning null-scum here. I don't really like her defense, especially the part about Ank. She already claimed to be a self-voter and even mentions ns self-voting all the time. So this raised a bunch of red flags for me. I acknowledge the light chainsaw too. However, she seems insistent that even though other people do it as town, it's still scummy. Part of me says that if we lynch her, she might flip town. Especially since both Sakura and notscience are players that seem to really want to change their metas.

Ald, however, seems pretty scummy to me. He sheeped his way onto the Venrob wagon with a shit reason and he sheeped VA's shitty Saki-meta vote with another shit reason. I haven't been impressed with his pushing either. To me, it just looks like scum trying to look busy. And I'm willing to wager that either Sakura or Ald will flip scum (not convinced of them being a scumteam yet at this point).

And what contradiction? You need to be more specific.

In post 224, pieguyn wrote:I was referring to that @_@ I thought this was saying Venrob voting Ank led to the wagon which in part got out of RVS. without him voting Ank, this wouldn't have happened

I'm townreading Ank because it looked like he was intentionally self-voting to get reads and push a discussion.

While it's true Venrob's vote contributed to getting us out of RVS, I don't see the same intention of Venrob wanting to move us out of RVS through his vote as Ank.

In post 224, pieguyn wrote:why didn't you pressure him farther then? you could have easily asked something like "why did you attack him and not me"..

Because I'm not an RVS player and I don't have any real experience initiating attacks. I'm better at letting other people take control, analyzing what happens, and making my reads accordingly. My Day 1 play is weak and it's something I need to work on.

Besides, I wanted to see other people's reactions to the Venrob wagon. It surprised me to see that only a few people realized I should have been wagoned too (and this happened much later). I was waiting for someone to attack me but it never came.

In post 225, DoctorEagle wrote:I'm inclined to vote Venrob because of the self meta and his attempt to make self voting looking like an alignment indicative thing rather than a playstyle indicative thing.

I need to ask DP on his read for Venrob. But I'll go ahead and vote him now

VOTE: Venrob

-BE

P-Edit: No scumhunting either, pieguy.

One of your heads was leaning town on him, and now you want to sheep onto the wagon?

Why? What's changed (besides what you already said in this post)?

In post 227, Sakura Hana wrote:I thought you guys were going to vote me?

I'm not sold on you yet.

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Post Post #241  (isolation #28)  » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:04 pm

As per the contradiction, it's scummy. And if you were to ask my opinion, I'm pretty certain Ank's self-vote was for information gain and not confusion (hence my townread).

In post 239, pieguyn wrote:
Brian Skies wrote:Besides, I wanted to see other people's reactions to the Venrob wagon. It surprised me to see that only a few people realized I should have been wagoned too (and this happened much later). I was waiting for someone to attack me but it never came.

^ this is a good idea. then why say this first? v
Because I'm not an RVS player and I don't have any real experience initiating attacks. I'm better at letting other people take control, analyzing what happens, and making my reads accordingly. My Day 1 play is weak and it's something I need to work on.

clearly your idea of watching the Venrob wagon was a good idea that happened in RVS. if you had an idea, better to stick with it :3 for me, the fact that you throw this in there before saying your intention means you're nervous...

I'm telling you why I chose to go with my idea instead of attacking him outright. There is a direct correlation between the type of player I am and the decision I made.

Also notice how quickly the Venrob wagon formed and how little reason accompanied it. If I didn't have a firm grasp of what was going on, I would have called it interesting too (looks at Sakura). It's like, seriously, you have 4 votes on 1 person, and nobody says anything substantial. And we already know that there can be, at best, 3 mafia (or 2 mafia and a traitor). I was curious to see how the discussion would develop. This also leads to why I didn't like how the Sakura wagon started.

In post 239, pieguyn wrote:
Brian Skies wrote:Ald, however, seems pretty scummy to me. He sheeped his way onto the Venrob wagon with a shit reason and he sheeped VA's shitty Saki-meta vote with another shit reason. I haven't been impressed with his pushing either. To me, it just looks like scum trying to look busy. And I'm willing to wager that either Sakura or Ald will flip scum (not convinced of them being a scumteam yet at this point).

I find it weird how you mentioned Ald. can you explain why you did that plz?

Because I'm scumreading him based on his interactions with Sakura. I think at least one of them is likely to be scum, but I'm just not convinced they're a team yet.

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Post Post #243  (isolation #29)  » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:36 pm

I'm satisfied with your attack on me so far. It's giving me a pretty solid townread on you. :D

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Post Post #255  (isolation #30)  » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:19 am

In post 254, Viera Assassin wrote:and why'd you claim with noone claiming intent to hammer

This.

And moving on.
UNVOTE: Venrob
VOTE: Alduskkel

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Post Post #256  (isolation #31)  » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:21 am

Also, I'd like to go out on a limb and say VA is probably town this game. But I think Sakura is probably the most familiar with VA's playstyle, so whatever.

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Post Post #280  (isolation #32)  » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:40 am

I dunno when the last time I posted was....but Prod Dodge!

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Post Post #290  (isolation #33)  » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:10 pm

They didn't dodge their prods, they received them.
Anyhow, I'm taking a look through the thread.

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Post Post #306  (isolation #34)  » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:54 pm

In post 305, Ankamius wrote:Hell, I just don't get a very town feel from his play at all this game.

Probably because his iso isn't very townish to begin with.

I'm getting this "off" feeling from Hiraki thus far. I can't really pinpoint it.

I'm still suspecting Ald, Sakura, and DE though.

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Post Post #320  (isolation #35)  » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:38 pm

In post 319, Alduskkel wrote:VA vote makes no sense anymore.

What made a vote on VA make sense to you?

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Post Post #332  (isolation #36)  » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:40 pm

Whoa, I'm liking the different perspective thus far. I'm going to do a re-read and get back to you guys later today. (I'm in a bunch of games, it's a balancing act)

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Post Post #335  (isolation #37)  » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:21 pm

@Bert: I would like your thoughts on Pieguy, TNE, and DE, specifically. Reads on other people are nice too.

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Post Post #347  (isolation #38)  » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:07 pm

Well, I'm not buying that JS is scum, so I'm not going to vote him. I'm also not going to vote Ank, IP, or Bert today.

I think IP is town (pretty good entrance). And I'm liking his TNE and Pieguy call-outs. I actually think TNE is scummy though (the iso feels like scum), and would prefer that wagon. Thoughts?

VOTE: TNE

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Post Post #351  (isolation #39)  » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:22 pm

@IP: Who are you talking to?

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Post Post #367  (isolation #40)  » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:32 am

My vote is worthless where it is right now. So I'm just going to sheep IP and see which wagon makes it to deadline. I'm still not liking the JS wagon and there is no way I'm joining it.

VOTE: Pieguyn

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Post Post #368  (isolation #41)  » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:33 am

Also, there is an even number of players, so I'm not against an early no lynch. Mafia should be providing us a flip anyways.

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Post Post #385  (isolation #42)  » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:41 pm

@Ank: TNE has been bothering me for a while now, but no one seems interested to go there.

As far as the JS wagon is concerned, I don't like how it formed and I don't want a part of it.

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Post Post #412  (isolation #43)  » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:46 am

Sorry guys, balancing several games right now. I'll post something either tomorrow or the next day.

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Post Post #442  (isolation #44)  » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:54 am

Sorry guys, been backed up on my game-load. Will post this weekend. My activity is better on weekends.

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Post Post #452  (isolation #45)  » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:53 am

Before I even bother giving you guys my reads list (which I'm doing sometime tomorrow), I'm just going to let you guys know that my name isn't even Brian. So it's just whatever. I'm already over MafiaScum players misspelling my username.

And I still think TNE is probably scum. I will need a re-read before I decide though.

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Post Post #458  (isolation #46)  » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:25 pm

In post 294, Hiraki wrote:This game is really hard to read. Therefore, I think I'm going to use process of elimination here.

I am not willing to lynch: Venrob, VieraAssassin, ETL, DoctorEagle, BrianSkies, and Ankamius.

That leaves: Alduskkel, JacobSavage, pieguyn, Sakura Hana, thenewearth

My next posts will basically be choosing out of that pile but I wouldn't be surprised if this is how the rest of this game goes for me.

Can you explain these slots' positioning on this list up to this point? The ones that stick out the most are VA and Pieguyn. Is there any particular reason why they were in their respective spots?

Granted, Aldu already asked this question, but you just avoided the question.

In post 310, Hiraki wrote:
In post 307, pieguyn wrote:he just asked you to explain your reads more.
I would believe this if he cited my early posts and finding contradictions from earlier reads.

Your rebuttal is that Aldu didn't look back to find contradictions. But after skimming your iso, I can't find how you came to the conclusion of each read. Like I said, the most notable ones are VA and Pieguyn. Considering you, I would have expected at least one vote on lurker VA.

In post 428, Hiraki wrote:Are you going to vote Sakura, and why?

No, because I think TNE is scummier. I actually wanted to lynch that slot yesterday, and my feelings haven't changed.


After a quick re-read: I don't really have any definite townreads that I'm happy with yet.

I still like the Ank and IP slots for town.
Alduskkel starts off scummy for me, then he gets a lot townier during mid and end of Day 1.
I have a small townlean for ETL.
JS is a claimed Power Role, but I'm starting to see why people would have thought he was scummy. Regardless, if someone else is the bodyguard, they need to cc right now.

Hiraki still feels "off" for me.
And I'm really not liking TNE's iso.

I'm still debating DE and Sakura. I don't get why people were townreading DE so early when he didn't do much. I didn't really like his entrance post. And TNE's early townread on DE rubs me the wrong way.

VOTE: TNE

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Post Post #460  (isolation #47)  » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:58 pm

Looking at TNE's iso, there is an extreme lack of scumhunting.
He jumped on Venrob with a lack of reasoning. It just looks like an opportunistic jump onto the wagon.
His earliest reads were townreads on DE and Pieguy. For DE, I don't see why he would of earned a townread. His entrance post was just alright. The Pieguyn read was just in line with everyone else and was a safe thing to do.
The next set of reads, post 291, is just a naked reads list. There are no thoughts, cases, or anything. Townreads on me, DNE, and Pieguyn. Scumreads on Venrob and VA. Once again, the reads list is extremely safe. He isn't committing to making a stance on anything else.

Everything else is just crap.


As for your vote on me, what about it? You can push me if you want. I don't really care. I've already pushed Venrob and I've already explained my thoughts about you earlier in the game during my interactions with Pieguyn.

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Post Post #466  (isolation #48)  » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:08 pm

In post 464, DoctorEagle wrote:First off, i dont think you've answered my early question to you. Why is it that Venrob voting for Ank scummy, yet you did the exact same thing? I find it highly hypocritical of you to just call him out on doing the same thing you did. Be it timing or whatever, it bothers me that you pretty much moved your vote when a)Ank called you town and b) you voted for someone for doing something you did as well.

I'm pretty sure I've already explained this in the thread somewhere. I didn't call him scummy for voting Ank. I called him scummy for his reaction to his wagon and the reasoning for his vote. He tried to push a wagon on Ank by calling the selfvote scummy. After he got wagoned, he tried to get towncred by saying he moved us out of RVS. The reaction was bad, and that's why I pushed him.

And I know I already mentioned this before. I thought my vote on Ank was worthy of a wagon as well and was waiting for people to push me for it. But no one did (except for Pieguyn way later) and they all just wagoned Venrob or Sakura instead.

How do you feel about TNE?

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Post Post #467  (isolation #49)  » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:24 pm

Oh, I didn't realize the rest was directed at me as well.

In post 464, DoctorEagle wrote:If you look at posts 136 and 163, you'll see this in order.
"I dont get the Sakura wagon"
"Based on pieguy's logic, Sakura and Venrob is a possible scum team"

The bold part has already been explained to Pieguyn. I didn't understand how the wagon started and thought the reasoning for it was stupid.

As for the other part, what's your point?

In post 464, DoctorEagle wrote:Ohh you did answer my question in post198
Wait, no you didnt, you just said "oh hey, glad you noticed"

In post 198, Brian Skies wrote:What's petty? The guy gets attacked and the best thing he could come up with was "OMG WE'RE OUT OF RVS, TOWNREAD ME GUYS!" Even though his vote and the ensuing wagon contributed to us getting out of RVS, I didn't see any town-motivation behind his actions and posts. And him asking for towncred looks like scum pleading the town not to lynch him.

Also, I already had a vote on Ank. If he really wanted us out of RVS, he could have attacked me instead.

Pretty sure the reason I thought he was scummy has been pretty much outlined.

In post 464, DoctorEagle wrote:My response to you in 119 and this goes for IP as well is the fact that you've been calling Venrob scum (for the same thing you did, mind you) to the point that even him claiming he got us out of RVS was something useless yet you felt the need to comment on something so petty. Its bothersome. It just screams either "tunnelvision" or "more discrediting"

I tunneled. Do you think tunneling is more indicative of town or scum? Because I don't think it's alignment indicative at all. Players of both alignments do it.

In post 464, DoctorEagle wrote:And. I still cant get 238 in regards to Sakura. You "claim" to not like the wagon, and think she's scum as well? Its like youre dissociating yourself while claiming credit for thinking she's scum, thats soft.

Once again, I explained this to Pieguyn. It's not the wagon that I didn't like, it's how it started. And I've already outlined my thoughts regarding Sakura up to this point.

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Post Post #473  (isolation #50)  » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:00 am

In post 469, Hiraki wrote:I thought he was town but I'd rather have a mislynch than a no lynch.

Really? Why? In that situation, I'd rather have a no lynch, and I expressed it as such.

For those of you who voted Pieguyn and had a townread on him, can you explain why you thought lynching him was better than a no lynch?

I'll go first. I didn't like the way the JS wagon was shaping up near day's end. I figured my vote was useless where it was and joined the Pieguyn wagon to watch which wagon (if any) would make it as a lynch. I actually wanted a no lynch, so seeing Pieguyn get lynched was a bit of a shock to me. Do I think there are town and town-motivations on the wagon? Yes, 100%. Because for whatever reason, people are greedy for that first lynch.

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Post Post #518  (isolation #51)  » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:06 am

I stand prodded. No time to read right now. I'll try to post something later.

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Post Post #542  (isolation #52)  » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:10 am

UNVOTE

VOTE: Hiraki


I'll post some more Saturday evening.

Tell me about Hiraki, ns. The slot feels hollow to me. And how familiar are you with all the players in this game?

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Post Post #550  (isolation #53)  » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:08 pm

In post 546, Hiraki wrote:Are you asking this because you know what you're going to hear?

I don't have a clue what ns is going to say. And I do value other people's opinions. Are you worried?

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Post Post #559  (isolation #54)  » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:29 pm

In post 551, Hiraki wrote:
In post 550, Brian Skies wrote:
In post 546, Hiraki wrote:Are you asking this because you know what you're going to hear?

I don't have a clue what ns is going to say. And I do value other people's opinions. Are you worried?
NS and I are not the best of friends and I have a good hunch that you are aware of this.

What does this have to do with reading people? I like ns, and I still can't read him worth a damn.

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Post Post #567  (isolation #55)  » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:53 pm

Okay, first of all, you need to read this game more thoroughly. Unless you're scum - in which case, I can just push your lynch with impunity for misrepping me.

In post 561, DoctorEagle wrote:466 Brian, this is a huge LIE. You voted him right AFTER he voted for Anakimus, not his reaction to the wagon. Besides, when has voting for a self voter been scummy?

I never lied about the Venrob thing. You're right, I did vote Venrob RIGHT after Venrob voted for Ankamius. But I never called him scum for voting a self-voter. I called Venrob scum for the way he was pushing the wagon and his attempt at towncred after garnering pressure. His reactions didn't read as town to me, so I pushed him for it.

In post 561, DoctorEagle wrote:I dont see TNE scum actually, and right now I have an ns townread. The TNE scum thing seems to stem from Inactivity, which TNE being an Engineering student and a chronic replacee, I understand. None of it is alignment indicative.

I don't understand what the TNE thing has to do with anything. I already provided my case. Just because you know TNE doesn't mean I do. And regarding inactivity, I did give VA a townread earlier based on Va's actions. So no, I wasn't voting TNE based on inactivity. I was voting TNE based on his actions. Also, your ns townread point is moot. I already unvoted him, so why bring that up?

In post 561, DoctorEagle wrote:If you had thought a vote on Ank would lead to a wagon on you, why do it anyway? To gauge reactions? If so, why vote for the next person to do so?

Yes, I did vote Ank to gauge reactions. Ank responded in kind. Venrob voted Ank instead of me, so I decided to test reactions from him. He failed, so I pushed him.

In post 561, DoctorEagle wrote:Note two things. First, I already pointed out that Venrob's vote on 21 directly led to your vote on 23, and VA voted for him in 22.

You're right. And I just explained this point. I was testing Venrob's reaction after Ank already have me his.

In post 561, DoctorEagle wrote:You voted for Venrob not for the reasons you stated, dont make yourself look good when you obviously just voted him because WAGON.

My vote on Venrob was for a wagon. My push was for a scumread.

In post 561, DoctorEagle wrote:Second, I emphasized that you were either tunneling or discrediting, I had two points there and was leaning towards discrediting, which you ignored. The issue with you tunneling is that youre nitpicking everything he says, which I felt in this case was more of a discredit.

I'm a tunneler. It's not alignment indicative.

As for discrediting, explain.

In post 561, DoctorEagle wrote:467 Brian, the point is, Im having a hard time understanding why you cant understand a wagon yet also agree with it. Its like saying "I don't think she's scum but I'll agree with it so I WONT be accountable if something goes wrong"

I've already explained this during my conversation with Pieguyn. This leads me to think you're either not reading, or you're trying to misrep me.

I didn't understand why the wagon formed (explained in conversation with Pieguyn). And I DID re-read the thread to figure it out.

In post 561, DoctorEagle wrote:559 I can (usually) read ns like a book.

Congratulations. Do you want a cookie?

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Post Post #573  (isolation #56)  » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:23 am

So, people come in, say they will do something, and then don't do anything. If you are in other games, this game needs to climb higher on your game-priority list. We have less than two days left, and having another deadline scramble is unacceptable considering how the last day ended. We also have 4 wagons.

@ns: Can you explain the ETL scum-virus thing?

@DE: Same question as above.

@Ank: You're in nulltown-possible scum territory and I'm having difficulty reading you. Do you have any reads and reasoning to back up those reads?

I should be commenting on other things, but I don't have time to do a re-read right now. These are just the things off the top of my head that I find important right now. I also want to see this Sakura-DP dance that never happened (but DP's health is more important to me, so don't force anything).

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Post Post #585  (isolation #57)  » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:06 pm

In post 583, Sakura Hana wrote:
In post 581, Alduskkel wrote:Except, any of the other 3 wagons (even myself) are more likely to be scum from your perspective,

Why?

Because if you're town, then the only person you know for sure to be town is yourself. This is why people think self-voting is scummy. If you're town, you should be doing everything in your power to prevent a mislynch unless it leads to directly finding scum.

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Post Post #586  (isolation #58)  » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:20 pm

In post 582, Ankamius wrote:
In post 573, Brian Skies wrote:@Ank: You're in nulltown-possible scum territory and I'm having difficulty reading you. Do you have any reads and reasoning to back up those reads?


I've expressed scumreads on Hiraki, ETL, thenewearth(notscience), and Alduskkel this day phase. I can go into more detail on them if my ISO is not enough, but I'm not really all that enthusiastic on posting my reads on everyone.

However, if you want reads on only specific people, ask.

Yeah, that's fine. During my initial read-through of your iso, I couldn't figure out where you stood with most people and in comparison to other people, your presence tends to wane at times.

I'm most interested on your reads of ETL, Hiraki, and DE. You, notscience, and DE all have him as scum, but only one of you are voting him. Logically, this wagon should have taken off by now, but it hasn't. I still think DE is just meh and I don't understand why people are reading him as town off the intro post. Hiraki requires a re-read for me, but I'm not getting town-vibes from him.

I'll do a re-read later in the afternoon. Still in the middle of classes.

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Post Post #594  (isolation #59)  » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:21 pm

@Hiraki: Most of your posting just feels like you're going with the flow. There's almost no pushing.

And why are you compromising? Do you think ETL is scum or not?

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Post Post #647  (isolation #60)  » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:55 pm

So now I know who Roleblocked me last night. I was hoping you wouldn't have outed yourself.

I'm the tracker.

I visited DE night 1 and he didn't go anywhere. Night 2, I was role blocked. I'm pretty sure there was a no kill last night.

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Post Post #648  (isolation #61)  » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:58 pm

Also, I 100% guarantee IP is the RB and I want to strangle him right now for denying me my report.

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Post Post #649  (isolation #62)  » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:01 pm

Also, since when is the traitor a bulletproof? Bulletproof is an upgrade made available to mafia goons.


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