Open 530 "WSoB" (Stack the Deck): GAME OVER

Alduskkel · Post Post #5 (isolation #0) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:56 am

Mafia didn't use up all their time, that's interesting.

Vote: DoctorEagle

. How dare you guys hydra so I can be in this game.

Alduskkel · Post Post #27 (isolation #1) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:15 pm

In post 8, Venrob wrote:VOTE: Alduskkel
Because of phineas and ferb mafia.

Excuse me? I don't believe I was in that game.

On an unrelated note,

Vote: Venrob.

Alduskkel · Post Post #38 (isolation #2) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:53 pm

Why would you vote me based on the PYP game when I was a Cop and got lynched Day 1 because BK201 counterclaimed me when he was just a VT?

Alduskkel · Post Post #47 (isolation #3) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:52 pm

In post 42, pieguyn wrote:
In post 28, Sakura Hana wrote:And suddenly a venrob wagon starts. This is quite interesting.

HoS: Sakura

just pointing out what's going on and calling it "interesting" instead of analyzing it or posting their opinion on it

Sheeping

Vote: Sakura

Interesting that you HoS when you're already voting.

Alduskkel · Post Post #49 (isolation #4) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:08 pm

What is your opinion of the Venrob wagon?

Alduskkel · Post Post #52 (isolation #5) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:18 pm

^I think it's a good vote.

Why is the wagon useless, Sakura?

Alduskkel · Post Post #54 (isolation #6) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:27 pm

That doesn't mean it's useless.

Alduskkel · Post Post #57 (isolation #7) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:42 pm

@Sakura: Because post 42.

@TNE: Do you think that I think that Sakura stands a good chance of being lynched based on all this?

Alduskkel · Post Post #59 (isolation #8) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:45 pm

What do I gain, as scum, for taking this opportunity?

Alduskkel · Post Post #62 (isolation #9) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:51 pm

In post 61, thenewearth wrote:that's for me to know, and for you to find out.

Per say?

But, if I'm scum, then I already know what I'm planning to gain. Why are you being coy?

@Sakura: Well, you've commented NOW, but not to my satisfaction. What is your read on Venrob?

Alduskkel · Post Post #65 (isolation #10) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:01 pm

@Sakura: You think calling a wagon "interesting" constitutes an actual opinion?

Alduskkel · Post Post #69 (isolation #11) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:09 pm

In post 66, Brian Skies wrote:The post you're looking for, Alduskkel, is #44.

I don't see how that's an actual opinion of the wagon.

Alduskkel · Post Post #71 (isolation #12) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:13 pm

I would rather have Sakura commit to a read rather than sit on the fence about it.

Alduskkel · Post Post #76 (isolation #13) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:26 pm

Because usually FoSes and HoSes are used as pseudo-votes, not on people you are already voting.

I fail to see how I have done the same thing as Sakura.

Alduskkel · Post Post #77 (isolation #14) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:27 pm

Oh, by the way, it's not the lack of explanation, it's the lack of commitment. Saying something is interesting could mean so many things.

@Viera: Mind explaining how you got those townreads? Especially on Sakura.

Alduskkel · Post Post #81 (isolation #15) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:59 pm

@Brian: I don't think VA's activity "surge" is indicative of anything other than that VA needs to post more content.

@pieguy: I didn't take a stance on the HoS thing because there's not really a stance to be taken. It's not scummy or townie, it's just weird. On the other hand, the Venrob wagon is definitely something that people need to have a stance on.

I don't really know what you mean in the second part of your post, but I don't think Sakura has explained himself sufficiently.

Alduskkel · Post Post #99 (isolation #16) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:58 pm

In post 82, pieguyn wrote:I meant, if someone explains their position on an issue, they first have to commit to that position, else they can't explain it. what makes that a separate thing from committing?

Well, you can commit without explaining, but it's very difficult/impossible to explain without committing.

In post 82, pieguyn wrote:
Alduskkel wrote:On the other hand, the Venrob wagon is definitely something that people need to have a stance on.
if you say people need to have a stance, how come you're not pressuring more people to give a stance? notably, I saw you didn't pressure me or VA about it 0.0

I suppose I could try to get EVERYONE to take a stance, but that's a bit difficult. Also, there's probably a lot of people who will comment on it without me poking them. The main reason I chose Sakura was because she mentioned the wagon but didn't give a real opinion on it.

But yeah, point taken. What's your opinion of the wagon, anyway?

@Ankamius: What's your opinion of Sakura? You just sort of popped in here to vote Venrob. By the way, I think that's just how Venrob plays. He explains stuff like that, I don't think it's an attempt at towncred. This is based on my experience with him in Open 472.
---
Wish TNE would've stuck around to answer my question in post 62.

Alduskkel · Post Post #101 (isolation #17) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:03 pm

Got anything else to say?

Alduskkel · Post Post #104 (isolation #18) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:47 pm

@pieguyn: Disagree. If I can get someone to definitively say "this guy is town" or "this guy is scum" then even if they don't explain it they're still committed, which leaves less room for them to opportunistically get on wagons.

Explanations are good, though, just not always 100% needed.

Didn't notice that stuff with VA and Hiraki. Very curious indeed, I look forward to their responses.

Alduskkel · Post Post #108 (isolation #19) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:32 pm

It's kind of a stupid semantics issue. Basically, Sakura said the wagon was "interesting." I used the term "explanation" because I wanted an explanation of what she meant by "interesting." Or, in other words, I wanted her to commit to a stance on the wagon.

Alduskkel · Post Post #117 (isolation #20) » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:40 pm

In post 110, JacobSavage wrote:Adesk, why Venrob vote?

I'm guessing you're talking to me, even though "Adesk" is so far from my actual username as to be borderline unrecognizable.

I voted Venrob because he had votes on him. Bandwagons are good for discussion.

Alduskkel · Post Post #141 (isolation #21) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:47 am

Venrob is town, based on my knowledge of his playstyle.
Sakura satisfies me for the moment. She bumps up to nullish scum.

Unvote.

But I'll leave a

FoS

.

Also, both people on my "wagon" (if two players are a wagon) are just sort of parking their vote there without actually pushing a case on me or responding to things I've said.
pieguyn is slightly town (I say slightly because it's only page 6), so I'll go with his read, though I don't strictly prefer JacobSavage over thenewearth.

Vote: JacobSavage

Also, about half the playerlist seriously needs to get in here and stop lurking. Not all of you damn lurkers are scum... if you were, it'd be easy.

pedit:

Alduskkel · Post Post #143 (isolation #22) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:08 am

Is anyone here scumreading Venrob who has also played with him before?

Alduskkel · Post Post #145 (isolation #23) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:30 am

I think Venrob goes for a sort of "by the book" style, and considering self-voting scummy falls into that.

Alduskkel · Post Post #148 (isolation #24) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:51 am

In post 146, Sakura Hana wrote:So according to you self-voting isn't scummy?

It can be anti-town, but I don't think it's meaningfully scummy.

ETL, how do you know Venrob doesn't actually think self-voting is scummy? Also, Brian voted for Ankamius, too, do you think that was scummy?

Alduskkel · Post Post #153 (isolation #25) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:22 am

In post 151, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:While obvious defense of them is a stupid idea, Sakura never comes out and says if she thinks Venrob is town. In fact, when pressed for an overt stance, she plays games and tells people to run around the thread looking for hints.

In post 83, Sakura Hana wrote:Ok since Alduskkel guy here cant take hints and can't read, My comment on RVS votes means that I agree with Venrob and that I think he's town hence the wagon shouldn't even exist.

...although I agree with you that if Venrob flipped scum I would be very suspicious of Sakura. And Sakura was being way too coy (need to find a synonym so I can stop using that word all the time) for my taste.

I don't think you actually answered my question of, how do you know Venrob doesn't actually think self-voting is scummy?

Alduskkel · Post Post #172 (isolation #26) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:09 pm

^^Frikkin' lurkers up there.

In post 159, pieguyn wrote:wow Alduskkel is sheeping me a lot.
@Alduskkel: can you plz explain why you keep sheeping me? certainly you've got some reads yourself you could follow, too

Early game, not a lot to go off of. A lot of the players have barely posted anything more than RVS. And in any case, you seem to be doing a good job of picking apart Sakura, as well as calling out some lurkers.

@Brian: I was on Venrob's wagon because it was a wagon. I frequently bandwagon in the RVS.

In post 163, Brian Skies wrote:
In post 104, Alduskkel wrote:@pieguyn: Disagree. If I can get someone to definitively say "this guy is town" or "this guy is scum" then even if they don't explain it they're still committed,
which leaves less room for them to opportunistically get on wagons.
You do realize you've already jumped on two wagons, right? And both of your jumps look pretty opportunistic to me.

Are they? See above for why I got on the Venrob wagon. And Sakura absolutely deserved that vote at the time, she definitely needed pressure.

Considering I'm not being very subtle about sheeping/bandwagoning I don't think my behavior is scummy. But I might be biased.

In post 163, Brian Skies wrote:
In post 148, Alduskkel wrote:ETL, how do you know Venrob doesn't actually think self-voting is scummy? Also, Brian voted for Ankamius, too, do you think that was scummy?
Okay, I was wrong. Alduskkel noticed it too. What is your opinion on this then, Alduskkel?

I don't think either vote on Ankamius was scummy.

Alduskkel · Post Post #197 (isolation #27) » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:45 pm

In post 175, Venrob wrote:[snip]

All that work and still no scumhunting.

In post 176, pieguyn wrote:
Alduskkel wrote:Considering I'm not being very subtle about sheeping/bandwagoning I don't think my behavior is scummy. But I might be biased.
er what? this indicates you care about whether your behavior is scummy or not. I can't understand a town motivation behind this = =

I'm just pointing out that I don't consider my own behavior scummy.

"Caring" would be more along the lines of actually modifying my behavior to avoid looking scummy. Although, in fairness, if I don't look scummy that's one mislynch less on the table, so it is loosely pro-town to try to avoid being scummy. At least as long as it doesn't get in the way of anything else.

---

Don't like Sakura's recent posts -at all-. Prefer DP's analysis to baldeagle's, and not just because DP called me town and baldeagle didn't. baldeagle apparently doesn't have anything to say about the argument between me and Sakura, plus didn't read closely enough to realize pieguy was voting Sakura already when he HoSed.

Anyway, I'll be V/LA for the 19th and 20th, just so you guys know.

Alduskkel · Post Post #235 (isolation #28) » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:34 pm

Yo

popping in to say I disapprove of Venrob being at L-1

Still have limited access.

Will respond to stuff later.

At least don't hammer in the next 7 hours. And obviously wait for Venrob to post again. Ideally, don't hammer him at all.

@Venrob: Scumreads?

Alduskkel · Post Post #236 (isolation #29) » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:35 pm

Oh hey it's my scumday. 5th year here woo

Alduskkel · Post Post #271 (isolation #30) » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:30 pm

Well, we have a problem. The game's been mostly revolving around Venrob and Sakura, but they're both V/LA. Also it feels like half the playerlist is lurking.

Unvote.

Vote: Viera Assassin

Seems like the worst of the lurkers. Just sort of "on" the Venrob wagon in a clandestine manner.

But yeah, I don't have much to go off of, we need to pressure people to post.

Alduskkel · Post Post #275 (isolation #31) » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:14 pm

VENROB. GIVE ME ANY SCUMREADS YOU HAVE.

Alduskkel · Post Post #277 (isolation #32) » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:18 pm

Who the fuck pops in only to give meta, defend himself, and talk about his own claimed role?

Alduskkel · Post Post #288 (isolation #33) » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:23 am

The prod dodges...

Alduskkel · Post Post #300 (isolation #34) » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:24 pm

In post 294, Hiraki wrote:This game is really hard to read. Therefore, I think I'm going to use process of elimination here.

I am not willing to lynch: Venrob, VieraAssassin, ETL, DoctorEagle, BrianSkies, and Ankamius.

That leaves: Alduskkel, JacobSavage, pieguyn, Sakura Hana, thenewearth

My next posts will basically be choosing out of that pile but I wouldn't be surprised if this is how the rest of this game goes for me.

How the hell did VA and DE make it onto your not-willing-to-lynch list? And how did pieguy make it onto the other list?

I would like to point out to everyone that there are less than 4 days before deadline and Sakura will not be back before then unless the deadline is extended. I think we should probably lynch someone who is active lurking if nothing else comes up. Although I'm not terribly happy with lynching lurkers, especially since with so many in the game some of them are bound to be town... however some of them are definitely scummier than others (VA if he (she?) doesn't replace out, JacobSavage, TNE, Hiraki).

Alduskkel · Post Post #315 (isolation #35) » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:14 am

For all your whining Hiraki I don't actually see an explanation for those reads. At least give some hard scum reads.

Also, I didn't call you scummy for not explaining yourself. You're scummy because you don't post jack. 4 of your 5 most recent posts are promising to do stuff later, and I don't see that stuff yet.

Alduskkel · Post Post #318 (isolation #36) » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:25 pm

ITT Hiraki gives excuses for not scumhunting.

Alduskkel · Post Post #319 (isolation #37) » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:26 pm

Unvote

. VA vote makes no sense anymore.

Vote: Hiraki

Alduskkel · Post Post #325 (isolation #38) » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:05 pm

In post 320, Brian Skies wrote:
In post 319, Alduskkel wrote:VA vote makes no sense anymore.
What made a vote on VA make sense to you?

VA was a lurking lurker who lurked. But apparently it was for IRL reasons, not scummy reasons.

In post 322, Hiraki wrote:
In post 318, Alduskkel wrote:ITT Hiraki gives excuses for not scumhunting.
Thanks for confirming my vote and dodging the questions.

I'll look at the rest of the group later. When I'm not busy (because apparently that seriously needed to be said too)

You want me to respond to the post point by point? I didn't want to clutter the thread, but okay:

In post 316, Hiraki wrote:
In post 315, Alduskkel wrote:At least give some hard scum reads.
Meanwhile, I already said this game was hard to read. Do you think I'm just going to come out and say "AH-HA SCUM FOUND!111!1!"

Adus wrote:Also, I didn't call you scummy for not explaining yourself. You're scummy because you don't post jack.
Lurking=Scummy. GJ

Adus wrote:But 4 of your 5 most recent posts are promising to do stuff later, and I don't see that stuff yet.
Yet. It's been a few days now and I have time.

That being said, I'm really liking Aduskelscum.

1. You have yet to call anyone scum (recently) other than me, and that just seems reactionary.
2. Active lurking is definitely scummy. You're posting enough to maintain a decent presence in the game, yet failing to produce any real content.
3. Still waiting then... I'll be impressed if you come up with anything other than "Alduskkel is scum."

Alduskkel · Post Post #337 (isolation #39) » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:27 pm

I think Sakura is probably town, because things seem to be drifting towards her being the easy/compromise lynch that flips town but no one gets blamed for because hey, it was that or no lynch, right?

Alduskkel · Post Post #353 (isolation #40) » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:38 am

Unvote

.

Vote: JacobSavage

. Partly just to start consolidating votes, partly because I don't care for a pieguy or Sakura wagon, partly because JacobSavage is scummy.

Alduskkel · Post Post #356 (isolation #41) » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:07 pm

In post 354, pieguyn wrote:
unvote vote: JacobSavage

Ald: what makes this wagon different from the Sakura wagon?

What makes them similar?

Alduskkel · Post Post #359 (isolation #42) » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:19 pm

Ok, let's look at it this way. If I don't get on a wagon that's forming near the end of the day, then my only option is... Venrob (Bert).

It's not about WHEN the wagon forms, it's about how it forms. And I don't like how the Sakura wagon was shaping up, as I said earlier.

Alduskkel · Post Post #369 (isolation #43) » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:34 pm

If JS is town then why the hell doesn't he push his reads by, you know, fucking voting? He's all talk, you'd think he would have been on the pieguy wagon a long time ago.

pedit: Why is pieguy scum? What don't you like about his defense?

peditx2: There are too many ways for the game to go to odd numbers without us no lynching that I'd prefer if we just let those shake out and no lynch at lylo if necessary.

Alduskkel · Post Post #383 (isolation #44) » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:06 am

JS should target Bert. If not then auto-lynch, I think.

Alduskkel · Post Post #384 (isolation #45) » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:15 am

That way, if Bert is a Town Goon Cop and JS is scum then Bert can never be killed without also outing JS. Then, we've secured ourselves a Goon Cop. Granted, we have no control over how many Goons there actually are, but, oh well.

Alduskkel · Post Post #389 (isolation #46) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:14 pm

Here's what I conclude:
1. Mafia have at least 1 Goon, possibly 2. 3 would be silly, but I suppose it's possible. If they had no goons they wouldn't have killed Bert.
2. As I said in 383, by all accounts our CLAIMED BODYGUARD should have protected our Goon Cop. Not protecting Bert is equivalent to a scum claim.

We ran up two supposed PRs Day 1. Only one was Town.

Vote: JacobSavage

Alduskkel · Post Post #391 (isolation #47) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:15 pm

Vote JacobSavage for great justice.

Alduskkel · Post Post #392 (isolation #48) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:19 pm

Shit.

Scum JOAT has a Strongman. GOD DAMMIT.

Alduskkel · Post Post #394 (isolation #49) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:20 pm

Unvote.

Sigh, thought we had (nearly) confirmed scum.

Alduskkel · Post Post #398 (isolation #50) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:24 pm

Well, we don't KNOW that there's a Strongman in this game. But, unfortunately, I think it's optimal to see if JacobSavage gets nightkilled (most likely in an indirect manner via his role).

Alduskkel · Post Post #405 (isolation #51) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:45 pm

JS claimed Bodyguard, that's why pieguy got lynched instead. As for why he was a wagon in the first place... well, you've got me, I thought he was town.

I don't really care for 401 or 402 up there. Especially 402, and not just because it's on me. I thought Hiraki was going to actually do some analysis on someone other than me, like he said he would. If he still voted me

after

that, then that might have changed my mind, but he seems content to just plop his vote onto me with no investigation into anyone else.

Alduskkel · Post Post #406 (isolation #52) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:46 pm

Strongman should bypass the Bodyguard and Roleblocker in this game. Bodyguard is basically just a Doctor who dies upon making a successful protection, hence why it can be countered by Strongman.

TNE is right that Commuter trumps Strongman, but there aren't any Commuters in this game.

Alduskkel · Post Post #410 (isolation #53) » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:14 pm

Okay, I iso'd you IP and the last time you gave a read on Sakura you were "indifferent" (339). Now all of a sudden she's "scummy as shit." That means something changed in the last 70 posts to have Sakura go from null to extremely scummy.

Alduskkel · Post Post #429 (isolation #54) » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:01 pm

Skimmed isos. Conclusions:

-Brian Skies seems town at a glance, except when you look at his votes and his scumreads you realize that he doesn't actually really push anything. I feel like he is mostly commenting on this game rather than scumhunting.

-DoctorEagle is vaguely town, can't get a hard read yet though. Need a lot more content.

-ETL is just off. No clue why.

-Hiraki is a scumread to me as many of you know, but I'm going to hold off on pushing him for at least a little bit because I want to see how he interacts with players who are not me.

-IP bugs me because a) VA mostly just bandwagoned on Venrob and b) IP has this way of calling someone scummy and then second-guessing himself and putting off actually applying any pressure. Case in point: 424 on Hiraki, 426 on DE. Still feel like the Sakura scumread came out of nowhere.

-Can't read TNE without more content. Mildly scummy.

-Gut town read on Sakura + from what I gather (admittedly based on what Sakura has said) she tends to get mislynched as Town. I am very weary of us sliding into an "easy" Sakura lynch like we almost did yesterday.

I think my vote is best placed here for now.

Vote: Brian Skies

Alduskkel · Post Post #430 (isolation #55) » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:03 pm

@Hiraki: What's there to explain? I was expressing my incredulity at Venrob's play.

Oh, and tell me in your own words why TNE is scum. Preferably more than just "TNE lurks."

Alduskkel · Post Post #432 (isolation #56) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:54 am

Elaborate.

Alduskkel · Post Post #451 (isolation #57) » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:48 pm

The question is being phrased poorly. Hiraki, you said that you never called DE scum, but you were unwilling to lynch them Day 1. So why were you unwilling to lynch them Day 1?

Alduskkel · Post Post #454 (isolation #58) » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:57 am

I just want to start murdering all the prod dodgers. But that would mean taking out half the playerlist.

Alduskkel · Post Post #459 (isolation #59) » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:35 pm

Brian, respond to my vote on you. Also, tell me why TNE is scum, in your own words.

Alduskkel · Post Post #461 (isolation #60) » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:40 pm

Good responses. (I can go into detail why if anyone asks.)

Unvote

.

Vote: TNE

how about you get into those "serious details" of why Sakura is scum sooner rather than later.

That's L-2, by the by.

Alduskkel · Post Post #471 (isolation #61) » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:47 pm

@IP: I assume you mean the pieguy wagon. If it was completely towndriven then that means the scumteam is TNE, Hiraki, and ETL. Actually, that doesn't sound too crazy to me.

So, certainly I think it COULD have been completely towndriven. Or maybe all 3 scum were on it. I can't say at this point.

What I will say is that the amount of lurkers/prod dodgers in this game is ridiculous, and the current lurker on my hit list is TNE. We'll see how he reacts.

Alduskkel · Post Post #472 (isolation #62) » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:51 pm

Why do you ask, by the way? And why do you ask me in particular?

Also, don't you think it's a problem to be so wishy-washy? (re: my 429)

Alduskkel · Post Post #481 (isolation #63) » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:10 am

Vote Hiraki

.

I refuse to believe that this is town behavior. Am I really supposed to believe you a) don't know how many scum are in this OPEN setup and b) have determined that NOW is the opportune time for a no lynch?

Alduskkel · Post Post #483 (isolation #64) » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:50 am

Uh, I already thought Hiraki was scummy before. This just adds to it.

Anyway, how about you wait around for Hiraki to defend himself before you defend him.

Alduskkel · Post Post #486 (isolation #65) » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:54 am

Don't use that tone of voice with me young man.

Alduskkel · Post Post #488 (isolation #66) » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:05 am

Just wait until your father gets home!

Alduskkel · Post Post #495 (isolation #67) » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:26 am

@Hiraki: Please respond to 451.

Also, I would rather no lynch later rather than sooner, since a lot of roles in this game can utilize the extra player (a vigilante will be able to kill without costing a lynch, a roleblocker will be able to stop a kill and grant us an extra lynch).

I will see what ETL comes up with and then I'll see if I want to pursue this conversation. IP's vote isn't a bad one, though.

@IP: I don't care about wagon analysis right now. When more players have flipped I'll consider it. What I care about is who is acting scummy.

It's not really about who was on what wagon at this point, it's about why they were on that wagon. People on wagons for shitty reasons are more likely to be scum.

Alduskkel · Post Post #503 (isolation #68) » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:35 am

Remind me to check Hiraki's meta when I have more time.

Alduskkel · Post Post #504 (isolation #69) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:04 am

Alright, well, I did a bit of meta, but then I got lazy because I generally don't care to read games I'm not in. Suffice it to say that I didn't really come up with anything, except that Hiraki's content level seems below his normal game as either alignment.

I won't have much else to say until other people post. Looking forward to that TNE replacement.

Alduskkel · Post Post #511 (isolation #70) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:01 am

^it's funny because it might just be true
/mass prod check

Alduskkel · Post Post #513 (isolation #71) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:07 am

I would like to point out that Hiraki's only reasoning for being on the TNE wagon is that a) TNE posted very little content (which, since TNE is being replaced, does not seem to be alignment indicative) and b) TNE has bad reads (but Hiraki hasn't said why Town can't have bad reads).

Alduskkel · Post Post #514 (isolation #72) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:20 am

More votes on Hiraki please. Let's see if he cracks under pressure.

Alduskkel · Post Post #516 (isolation #73) » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:47 pm

Hiraki's the kind of player who deserves a cursory glance at his meta. And by "the kind of player," I mean "someone who seems like they might just play anti-town all the time."

As you might imagine I don't really see the discrepancy between my recent posts and my overall ISO. Care to elaborate?

Alduskkel · Post Post #530 (isolation #74) » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:11 pm

Oh, right, this game. Didn't realize it had been so long because NOTHING HAPPENED.

Alduskkel · Post Post #539 (isolation #75) » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:18 pm

notscience wrote:Saki didn't question a goon cop claim, when a goon cop claim is what lead my scumbuddy to lylo last run of this setup (they were the mafia role cop, I was the traitor), and he instantly unvotes rather than show some townie paranoia which gives me a scumread on the slot

Saki isn't in this game as far as I know. Who are you talking about?

Also... is anyone townreading ETL? Something to contemplate.

Alduskkel · Post Post #541 (isolation #76) » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:42 pm

Oh, okay.

Also, reading 539 over again, what I mean about ETL is that it seems like no one is townreading her, but no one is voting her either. Seems weird.

Alduskkel · Post Post #547 (isolation #77) » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:43 am

I didn't backtrack. The meta was just a "check" to see if Hiraki was this scummy usually -- he isn't. But what I wanted to avoid (and you might notice this all the way back in 429) is getting into a very stupid town vs. town argument where we both end up convinced the other is scum and just tunnel on each other forever. To be honest, if Hiraki is town, then I haven't really avoided that at all, although we have gotten the information that Hiraki would sheep onto the TNE wagon.

But, from what I can tell, Hiraki isn't town.

Alduskkel · Post Post #575 (isolation #78) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:42 pm

So Sakura, how would you feel if I voted for you?

Alduskkel · Post Post #577 (isolation #79) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:47 pm

The catch is that I've stated that I think you're town.

Alduskkel · Post Post #579 (isolation #80) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:54 pm

Yes.

What do you think of Hiraki and ETL?

Alduskkel · Post Post #581 (isolation #81) » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:00 pm

Except, any of the other 3 wagons (even myself) are more likely to be scum from your perspective, if you're town.

Alduskkel · Post Post #591 (isolation #82) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:54 pm

I'm only willing to vote ETL or Hiraki at the moment. I will take a no lynch over my lynch or Sakura's. (If you think Sakura is scum after the self vote then you are silly.)

Alduskkel · Post Post #592 (isolation #83) » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:51 pm

This is fucking ridiculous. We have 16 hours.

Alduskkel · Post Post #598 (isolation #84) » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:34 am

Vote: ETL

Sakurawagon is badwagon.

Alduskkel · Post Post #600 (isolation #85) » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:00 am

Why'd YOU pick ETL anyway? You haven't expressed a scumread on her at all before.

Alduskkel · Post Post #604 (isolation #86) » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:26 pm

Come on you ding-dongs, there's only an hour and a half left. Don't fuck this up.

Alduskkel · Post Post #608 (isolation #87) » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:52 pm

I would've preferred Hiraki, but what can you do. ETL is kind of a gut thing, but since so many other people feel that way too I'm guessing there's something to it.

Alduskkel · Post Post #614 (isolation #88) » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:35 pm

Or got roleblocked. (Presumably they did not actually refrain from killing, though.)

Alduskkel · Post Post #617 (isolation #89) » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:40 pm

Well, it's not GUARANTEED that we have a Roleblocker. We might have a Tracker.

We probably shouldn't talk about this outside of lylo though, unless one of those two roles has an incriminating result. Otherwise, we should cut short the role speculation now.

Alduskkel · Post Post #618 (isolation #90) » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:45 pm

Unless JS is scum, I would guess there is at least one scum who wasn't on the ETL wagon.

Alduskkel · Post Post #644 (isolation #91) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:15 am

I'm inclined to believe IP. I'll wait to see if anyone counterclaims, but I doubt it.

Alduskkel · Post Post #652 (isolation #92) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:54 am

Vote: Brian Skies

Alduskkel · Post Post #653 (isolation #93) » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:56 am

That's L-1... we should still wait for DE and Ankamius to post.

But I'm fairly confident Brian is scum at this point.

Alduskkel · Post Post #668 (isolation #94) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:59 am

lololol. The better question is why the hell there was no kill last night. Framery? Or did IP actually target scum?

pedit: You ding dong.

Alduskkel · Post Post #670 (isolation #95) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:04 am

What are the odds that JS is scum and that scum can't kill IP without implicating him?

Alduskkel · Post Post #672 (isolation #96) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:08 am

That I couldn't tell you, at least not without knowing who IP targeted.

Alduskkel · Post Post #674 (isolation #97) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:10 am

Well, we didn't gain a lynch this time, so it didn't cost them as much as the last no-kill.

Alduskkel · Post Post #678 (isolation #98) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:27 am

Hmm, I've had a vague (better than slight) townread on Ankamius for most of the game. I'll iso him later (Thursday or Friday maybe), but I'm not inclined to damn him over the RB. I don't have a solid town read on the slot, though.

Now if it had been on DE or NS I would have said, yes, probably [whoever was RB'd] is scum.

JS pisses me off because he does basically nothing and is actually really scummy but I don't want to lynch him because if he's scum he's forcing the team to keep IP alive and if he's town then he's liable to take the bullet (while keeping IP alive).

At the same time Hiraki would be scum but his push to make the ETL wagon happen makes me reconsider my scumread, though bussing is apparently quite common in the meta of today, based on the MD threads I've read.

@Ankamius: What was the deal with that not-hammer on ETL?

Alduskkel · Post Post #683 (isolation #99) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:55 pm

In post 680, Ankamius wrote:I meant exactly what I said; that it was a compromise lynch. I was feeling incredibly bleh about the lynch in general, both from how it ended up winning out the other wagons and because half the other wagons were ones I would have preferred.

Yeah, but why get on the wagon after it's already reached lynch threshold?

Alduskkel · Post Post #689 (isolation #100) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:30 pm

Is the objective to force scum to kill JS or something?

Alduskkel · Post Post #705 (isolation #101) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:01 pm

How about we just lynch NS?

Vote: notscience

Alduskkel · Post Post #706 (isolation #102) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:04 pm

I think "most correct" as far as lynch order goes might be NS-->DE-->Hiraki with allowance for lynching Ankamius or JS if the roleblocking business implicates one or both of them.

Alduskkel · Post Post #708 (isolation #103) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:14 pm

You are a fucking ding dong. Why would scum ever hammer you?

Alduskkel · Post Post #712 (isolation #104) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:19 pm

herp de derp derp what did you expect

Alduskkel · Post Post #714 (isolation #105) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:20 pm

I think this is "scum NS who has given up and is just fucking around."

Alduskkel · Post Post #717 (isolation #106) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:24 pm

Well, let me know when this game stops being completely ridiculous.

pedit: Absolutely not. And I'm not taking self-meta.

Alduskkel · Post Post #723 (isolation #107) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:27 pm

In post 719, InflatablePie wrote:YESSIR

yessiree? That guy's a guy who exists. Let's see if he searches for his own name.

@NS: Not taking self-meta.

Alduskkel · Post Post #724 (isolation #108) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:27 pm

Vote: yabbaguy

Because I didn't get to lynch the Mod in Open 473.

Alduskkel · Post Post #732 (isolation #109) » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:35 pm

In post 610, yabbaguy wrote:
Vote Count 2.10

10 alive, 6 to lynch

EspeciallyTheLies (6): InflatablePie, notscience, Hiraki, Alduskkel, JacobSavage, Sakura Hana

Sakura Hana (2): EspeciallyTheLies, DoctorEagle
Hiraki (1): Brian Skies
Alduskkel (1): Ankamius

EspeciallyTheLies has been lynched. Please stand by.

Alduskkel · Post Post #739 (isolation #110) » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:09 am

I thought we were keeping Ankamius alive to be roleblocked over and over.

Alduskkel · Post Post #744 (isolation #111) » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:11 am

I don't like how/that JS and DE are on the Hiraki wagon.

Alduskkel · Post Post #748 (isolation #112) » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:54 pm

Why should I be? Also thanks.

Alduskkel · Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:33 pm

@DE: Why? Well, JS's vote is OBVIOUSLY terrible. Yours is also terrible because your reason is shit. (And it's on you to prove that it isn't shit.)

Also, I want to hear why you think Hiraki-scum bussed ETL like that.

I don't want to say I'm townreading Hiraki but man are the players going after him scummy (except Sakura).

Alduskkel · Post Post #756 (isolation #114) » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:19 pm

Wait, were you saying you didn't want to commit to any wagons, or were you mock-quoting Hiraki? I read it as the former.

Alduskkel · Post Post #765 (isolation #115) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:42 pm

I think your DE and NS townreads suck.
Also the scumteam is well aware that JS is a huge mislynch target (if he's town obv) if we ever get over the fact that he's claimed bodyguard.
I fail to see how 7p is lylo.
Fair point about ETL's slip. Not sure they don't have a role cop, though, that seems like a great one to take.

Alduskkel · Post Post #766 (isolation #116) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:43 pm

Don't worry IP, I can yell at you now. You don't need the dead thread.

Alduskkel · Post Post #767 (isolation #117) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:49 pm

I mean seriously, DE isn't scum because he's TOO closely associated with ETL? That's basically "too scummy to be scum" right there. And NS isn't stupid, he's not going to blow up just because he made a mistake.

Alduskkel · Post Post #770 (isolation #118) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:50 pm

NS's self-meta tires me.

IP, they might have also recruited the Traitor, which would have given them grounds to immediately kill Bert.

Alduskkel · Post Post #774 (isolation #119) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:53 pm

Well if they picked something more than just JOAT then they KNEW there was roleblocker, right?

Alduskkel · Post Post #776 (isolation #120) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:00 pm

DP, how does notscience act when shit like that happens?

Alduskkel · Post Post #778 (isolation #121) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:20 pm

I didn't say it wasn't confusing. Maybe they want us to lynch JS?

Alduskkel · Post Post #780 (isolation #122) » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:22 pm

So... should we lynch JS then?

Alduskkel · Post Post #784 (isolation #123) » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 am

Well

I have no fucking clue

. In what circumstances is JS town again?

I'm with Sakura, the setup spec/NKA is just confusing at this point.

Alduskkel · Post Post #788 (isolation #124) » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:15 am

I actually like that theory a lot. IP, what didn't you like about my responses?

Alduskkel · Post Post #790 (isolation #125) » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:57 am

Fair enough about not lynching JS. OTOH, I'm not sure what you think my scum motivation for all that was.

Is there any reason we can't just lynch Ankamius and you can confirm someone

else

as town by roleblocking them?

Alduskkel · Post Post #794 (isolation #126) » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:04 am

So NS

only

blows up when scum? Is that what I'm supposed to believe? Otherwise it's completely null.

Alduskkel · Post Post #804 (isolation #127) » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:22 pm

Is it just me or does DE get on any wagon that looks like it's going to get a lynch? First Hiraki and now Ankamius.

Alduskkel · Post Post #805 (isolation #128) » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:36 pm

DE do you have a townread on anyone who is not IP or Sakura?

Alduskkel · Post Post #807 (isolation #129) » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:08 pm

I don't know what to make of the fact that you, with a wagon on your head, come in here just to tell me to look at your iso to find your attack on me.

Plus I think I already gave my defense.

Alduskkel · Post Post #809 (isolation #130) » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:20 pm

What if they don't trade JS for you? What if we lynch town, JS is town, and he doesn't die tonight?

Alduskkel · Post Post #811 (isolation #131) » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:56 pm

Yeah, but there's no way we can ever know you're town, so it's NOT a 1 in 2 chance of hitting scum.

Also I don't know how the mod wants to resolve the RB vs. Goon thing.

@Mod: Is RB vs. Goon a draw?

Alduskkel · Post Post #825 (isolation #132) » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:40 pm

So in other words, you have NO townreads in the group of people actually up for a lynch. Good to know that you can hop onto anyone you like.

Alduskkel · Post Post #827 (isolation #133) » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:07 am

JS isn't really in the lynch pool yet, and your town read on me is conditional.

Alduskkel · Post Post #834 (isolation #134) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:45 pm

Well, now we know scum thought that they wouldn't be blocked by IP (or decided to take the risk).

I'm still inclined to lynch DE or NS, though. Moreso NS after Ankamius flipped scum.

pedit: I don't want to lynch JS when we still have at least 3 lynches. I will only even

consider

it if we're down to 2 lynches.

Alduskkel · Post Post #837 (isolation #135) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:35 pm

Spoiler: Select Vote Counts, Color Coded

Observations:
1. On the Venrob (Bert) wagon, Ankamius was on while ETL was off.
2. Both ETL and Ankamius were on the JS wagon.
3. At least the

front end

of the pieguy wagon was town.
4. ETL and Ankamius split up on the Sakura vs. TNE (NS) wagons.
5. ETL stayed on the Sakura wagon for a very long time.
6. Ankamius did not bus ETL.
7. Unless one of I and Hiraki is scum, the last scum bussed Ankamius.
8. In vote count 2.9, the last scum was

necessarily

attempting to save or bus ETL. (As opposed to Ankamius who was just randomly voting me.)
9. Not vote count related but, if JS is town, then scum either recruited the traitor or took daytalk.

With the majority of the players still alive (and us not knowing if there's a Traitor or not), this isn't as useful as it could be. Although ETL and Ankamius both piled onto JS, this means nothing because if JS is scum then ETL and Ankamius didn't know that, because JS would have to be the Traitor. (I think.) Sakura is still town, surprise surprise.

If anyone can get more out of this, go right ahead. I know I didn't get as much out of it as I wanted.

IP, I still can't wrap my head around how you have a town read on NS. He tried to defend himself with meta that turned out to be null for God's sake. Half of his recent posts are just throwing self-meta in my face and the other half are him fucking around.

Alduskkel · Post Post #838 (isolation #136) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:47 pm

One thing I was tempted to do but am too lazy to actually do is to check to see how often unconfirmed players voted with scum. The catch is that you probably have to do this with all the vote counts to avoid bias.

I guess we could have each unconfirmed player do another unconfirmed player (or themselves) to reduce workload. Just a thought. However, I wouldn't count on NS or JS to do that based on the amount of effort they've put into the game so far.

Alduskkel · Post Post #841 (isolation #137) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:29 pm

Where's the NS I know and love from NY166?

Alduskkel · Post Post #850 (isolation #138) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:32 am

InflatablePie wrote:they did not recruit the traitor, there was a no-kill the night I roleblocked Brian/our tracker (the night after ETL was lynched)

holy shit.

So the only way JS is town is if they took daytalk? How stupid are they?

Alduskkel · Post Post #853 (isolation #139) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:36 am

Vote: DoctorEagle

But it's probably JS. Daytalk is silly.

Alduskkel · Post Post #862 (isolation #140) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:59 pm

The sad fact is is that DE's responses are pretty town at this point. Is there no support for an NS lynch?

Alduskkel · Post Post #864 (isolation #141) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:33 pm

Cool with me.

Vote: notscience

Alduskkel · Post Post #869 (isolation #142) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:57 pm

To be honest, JS is probably scum, but it's not strictly optimal to lynch him now. Which sucks.

Alduskkel · Post Post #877 (isolation #143) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:41 pm

I actually think NS is town because JS is scum, so I'm not tunneling.

Hiraki, on the other hand...

Alduskkel · Post Post #878 (isolation #144) » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:52 pm

I mean, this is really silly because the question is essentially, "Of all these people who are probably town, who is scum? Please ignore that scummy guy over there, you can't lynch him yet."

Alduskkel · Post Post #880 (isolation #145) » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:15 am

When was the last time you considered that I might be town?

Alduskkel · Post Post #883 (isolation #146) » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:26 am

I'm grasping at straws? I could have easily stayed on the DE wagon. I have no motivation to prefer NS over DE if I'm scum.

Also, I have no idea where you got "without the intention of receiving an answer."

Alduskkel · Post Post #885 (isolation #147) » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:23 am

Uh, because you're conveniently forgetting NS's post between the two.

Alduskkel · Post Post #890 (isolation #148) » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:26 am

It

is

pretty stupid.

Alduskkel · Post Post #892 (isolation #149) » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:22 am

Maybe because I wanted to know if there was support for the NS lynch. I know, it's very shocking.

I'm still waiting for you to "go further." Into the tunnel I assume.

Alduskkel · Post Post #894 (isolation #150) » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:50 am

In post 893, InflatablePie wrote:>NS sarcastically responds saying he supports a NS lynch

In post 867, notscience wrote:I'm entirely serious.

Alduskkel · Post Post #898 (isolation #151) » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:51 pm

We could lynch Hiraki for being annoying but I doubt he's scum after what he did to ETL.

Alduskkel · Post Post #900 (isolation #152) » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:03 pm

Do 855-858 seem like scumposts to you?

Alduskkel · Post Post #911 (isolation #153) » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:07 pm

FINE. Holy god is this day stupid.

Vote: DoctorEagle

Since the NS lynch is obviously a no-go.

Please avoid roleblocking NS or Hiraki. Yes, I know that only leaves me and Sakura, but I can't say that I trust either of the first two to handle being confirmed town very well (assuming they are town). NS specifically requested not to have the game rest in his hands, and we both agree Hiraki isn't competent.

Alduskkel · Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:28 pm

Oh god, is it actually optimal to lynch JS at 3p and not 5p? This sucks.

Alduskkel · Post Post #922 (isolation #155) » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:30 pm

You're gonna have to come up with actual reasons for that, DE. Not just "this is bad."

Alduskkel · Post Post #928 (isolation #156) » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:56 am

Have we established that if JS isn't killed then we lynch him in 3p?

Alduskkel · Post Post #931 (isolation #157) » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:16 am

Hey JS, if you're scum can you just let us know? I guarantee we'll be lynching you no matter what, so you've lost already.

Alduskkel · Post Post #935 (isolation #158) » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:13 pm

I don't think it's a good idea to lynch JS.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:28 am

Are you kidding me? Okay, well THAT is why we weren't going to lynch JS. Seriously. Always plan on being wrong in situations like this.

Also, Hiraki, you're a fucking tunneler. I figured out it was town v. town, you didn't.

Also, scumteam kind of fucked up. Power roles dropped like flies and they still got owned by power roles.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:31 am

Why did you lie IP?

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:39 am

Yes, the Brian lynch was poor in retrospect. Mainly because it happened too quickly.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:44 am

Also, JS, you were fucking useless, please don't be fucking useless in future games.

I have similar words for NS. I saw you joining other games but not putting much effort into this one.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:46 am

I mean, I know you can play better than this NS.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:52 am

Probably better to focus on getting the scum's number in games you're already in.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:01 am

Something tells me that daytalk is a terrible thing to choose in this setup. ESPECIALLY with only 2 scum to use it.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:03 am

Scum REALLY should have killed JS when they had the chance. I have no clue what the DE kill attempt was about.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:07 am

Also, I would like to pre-in for that pieguy UPick.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:12 am

People like uPicks.

Alduskkel · Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:15 pm

NS wasn't a PR.

Alduskkel · Post Post #993 (isolation #170) » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:19 pm

Quick, become confused about my gender! It's the only way!

Alduskkel · Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:29 am

Ankamius wrote:Wow

I hit the traitor completely by accident and got the tracker killed because of it

Derping that hard made me a complete genius

Best moment.

Also, why is the Role Cop so shitty? Because it doesn't actually counteract other Town PRs?

Hmm, looking at Town PRs again:
Goon Cop -- neutralized by giving Mafia PRs
Roleblocker -- can only be soft neutralized by JOAT and/or recruiting Traitor
Tracker -- soft neutralized by JOAT, but seems to increase in power with more PRs
Bodyguard -- soft neutralized by JOAT
Vigilante -- soft neutralized by Bulletproof and/or not recruiting Traitor
Innocent Child -- just not that strong

Conclusions:
JOAT is definitely a good pick.
Mafia BP or Mafia Role Cop might have been better than daytalk because Bert could have been left alive indefinitely.
Recruiting the Traitor will guarantee that at least one of the Mafia must be a Goon.
To maximize Mafia coordination, you have to recruit the Traitor and take daytalk; however, this means that there will be at least 4 Town PRs with no counter. JOAT seems like the obvious choice after that, but then you run into yet another town PR.
Daytalk is probably not worth both the extra Town PR and not getting a true Mafia PR.

Alduskkel · Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:44 pm

I think daytalk is underpowered.

Alduskkel · Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:33 pm

Then why not improve the scum PRs so that it's to their benefit to take something?

Alduskkel · Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:15 pm

You don't think it's worth adjusting it yet?