Magic: The Gathering,GO TEAM MS!

[Fate]

Fate, I am saying it is almost pointless to play Aggro at the current moment. Maybe Dragon's Maze will release some cards that will help it.

For Aggro to Top 8 right now in major events, it has to get really lucky on Match ups and what they draw.

I know what you are saying, and I am saying that your opinion can't possibly be informed enough to be anywhere close to fact.

Its also still an opinion.

Even if 90% of pros share the same opinion and rather play other decks, it doesn't make it fact, because the statistics are then skewed because the decks that place are always going to be a representative of the most played competitive decks.

[Fate]

So assumptions about the number of people that played aggro, and their relative skill to the pilots of other archetypes= SOLID PROOF MATHS

Whatever bro.

[Fate]

I'd like to see these "best players" and quotes from them saying aggro isn't worth playing.

Because I'm pretty sure neither Kdowns nor Shea and obviously not myself count.

[Fate]

I mean, I'm sure its not worth playing because its "easier" to play value decks where just playing your cards down will carry you through games in which you are equally matched or of lesser skill.

You really have to be on your game to win as an aggro deck. You can't just dick around and expect to have positive results, you have to play well and you can't make mistakes.

Obviously this will just bring us back to the discussion of "DOES IT TAKE SKILL TO PLAY AGGRO? LOLNOPE"

But I don't have time for that again.

Part of the reason Naya Blitz is so popular is that its nut draw is just mindless and instant win blitzing.

So sure I'll concede that it might not be "worth it" if you were to bet your money, time, and livelihood on a magic (aka pro players) to bother with an unforgiving deck, but that's not because its "weak" that's because the players that pilot it are weak and the players that don't are afraid of being weak.

[Fate]

is that your opinion? Or the opinion of one article writer you read way back when? I don't htink you can seriously believe that the most "popular" deck is decided by what is rewarding. The most popular deck will always be the one that can consistently win through misplays and subpar draws through pure value per card slot, and thus puts up the best "results" statistically. Thus further perpetuating it as the "best" deck. The cycle is endless, I'm sure.

I'm just giving my reads and opinions.

When I see all of you posting why you are playing a certain deck and what appeals to you and why aggro is "weak" this is how I read it. Especially the "aggro is only viable through luck and nut draws."

I know playing aggro that it can be viable. I know that if I make a single mistake that the game will likely not end with my victory, as aggro decks don't usually "recover" from being set behind. I know that I cannot afford to have any dead cards in my hand at any time when deckbuilding/sideboarding. I don't think this makes the archetype "weak."

I really don't know how else to explain it well. And if nothing else, because I'm obviously not going to get anyone to change their own opinions, I hope that you can rethink your own opinion and at least acknowledge its potential to be wrong instead of flat out dismissing other people's.

[Fate]

If I'm remembering correctly (the article link is broken from what I've tried), it was LSV.

And I'm going to take LSV's opinion over yours.

I'd rather you have your own opinion to take.

This thread makes me sick

I don't know why I keep coming back like some dumbass addict

[Fate]

I still have yet to see an article or quote from a pro player supporting your initial point of "aggro decks aren't viable, don't waste your time."

I however could find the article listing all the current "top tier" competitive decks, and

R/g Aggo being listed as one of the top 7

.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/A ... ily/pr/241

I used to take down the PTQ. In my opinion, there are six tier-one decks in Standard right now: Aristocrats, Junk Rites, Red-White-Blue, Esper, Naya Blitz, and Red-Green.

That's for my first point. That my opinion OH SHIT correlates with something "people who get paid to play magic" are saying.


2.

You literally fucking suck at reading my tone and intent, you as well Bv.

When the hell have I even said the word "net deck" you sensitive fuck? When have I said "URE DOING IT WRONG" when the fuck have I ever insulted or said any decks anyone here has tried or support are unviable?

I literally have ONLY defended my archetype as being viable. Obviously I'm biased to it, and I've even SAID "this is how I play magic and the deck I like to play and this is the reason why." Are you fucking blind? I said that pretty much word for word, yet you paint my position as the complete opposite. No I don't think you "don't know what you're taking about" or "doing it wrong" when the fuck have ever stated anything as such? I do think you are being narrow minded when it comes to deck archetypes you don't play. I see the value in playing the decks YOU support, whereas you have only contempt for opinions that contradict yours and your "godly" experience.

Your position is close to "you ignorant fuck, there's no POSSIBLE way you can form an intelligent opinion over mine when I've been playing for 15+ years." Last time I checked, the current iteration of standard has been out for 3 months? Yeah I think 3 months. So, no matter how much you want to take an "arrogant high ground" you've had as much experience with these card pools as I have.

What does experience come down to anyway? You know 3k more cards than me? I don't care about those cards, what do they have to do with standard metagame? You've played at more events than me? How many of them were modern? How many standard?

I know someone who knows literally every statistic there is to know about baseball, for his entire time. Does that mean I can't form an opinion of equal worth to him when I go to a ball game with him, at that current game? I can't assess the game I'm watching right then and there with him because he's been alive twice as long as me and knows infinitely more baseball stats and history?

Sure his opinion will be better formed based on history and paths, but that doesn't make mine "complete shit."

Now, take the stick out of your ass and you might stop getting butt hurt every time I post something that makes sense Shea and you can't comprehend how someone who hasn't dedicated so much of his life to a fucking game might possibly have an opinion on the same level as yours.

[Fate]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... =0&limit=8

That event looks pretty competiti-WHAT IS THAT 50% OF THE TOP 8 IS AGGRO?

Nah

Nah my biased eyes must just be playing tricks on me right.

I could also mention going 5-0 for first place at FNM but obviously its not as credible and you'd just have to take my word for it that I beat UWr, Junk rites, and Esper (as well as 2 Naya blitz-the only aggro deck Shea respects-because of their horrid inconsistency).

So yeah I'll stick with the link

[Fate]

Klazam you're ruining the me vs. the world vibe here

<_<b

[Fate]

So you saw them and...?

You and Bv decide to comment on FNM instead which I've already admitted wasn't a good basis for the case was just an extra fuck you added on to the pile?

"So look at how well Aggro did at a competitive tournament. Also I did really well at FNM even though I know thats not enough its just icing"

"FNM wins =/= competitive successful"

dis thread always ripe with lulz

[Fate]

Rofl...

Mono Red got 1st at a SCG event awhile back, I just wasn't in the mood to post it in this thread because I figured shit like this would happen.

Your argument keeps changing

"Aggro doesn't place well enough in any event, its unviable as fuck. 20% in the top 16 where more than 40% horseshit numbers HERPDERP played aggro probably?"

"Oh Aggro made up 50% of the top 8? Well it DIDNT WIN did it?"

I seriously can't believe you just posted that.

[Fate]

You still think of aggro as just this oversimplified archetype that turns things sideways and can only win with luckdraws?

And that once the aggro "figures dem out" the meta stabilizes and aggro is UNVIALBE AGAIN HOOOOOO.

You're regurgitating shit that you've probably been fed your entire life of playing magic, refusing to change or to see new sets and metas in a different light. In your mind, since it was true in the past, aggro is NEVER viable except MAYBE during the first month of a new meta.

Like aggro is literally incapable of evolving decklists and angles of attack as a meta progresses.

The irony of me being called "narrow minded"

its just now seeping in

so

deep

[Fate]

so you play a deck that you yourself think isnt viable once the meta becomes "accustomed" to it

i just don't even know anymore

yeah i'm pretty done too

[Fate]

so all that hype that drove up that banned jace's price...

Magic market is crashing nao

[Fate]

where gruul war chant

[Fate]

Orzhov. I may play Golgari in a second event, but Simic and Selesnya look tempting... Or Dimir for the guild pin.

guild what

[Fate]

that's actually p. cool

GAMMA WE GOTTA SMASH OUR WAY TO THE FINISH LINE

[Fate]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

2NDFFFFFFF

[Fate]

So I thought John Rutwhatever was kidding when he said he lifted all the promo tokens he could, but I opened my box this morning and mine are missing. I'm going to beat the shit out of him. /in?

Nope nuwens just a baddie I found her Rakdos token

[Fate]

Armed//Dangerous is "wildly unplayable?" Why am I not surprised.

[Fate]

Have you actually tested it in literally any archetype at all before you come to these judgements?

Or are you just comparing them to other cards with the same effects in order to determine is value

Because thats a pretty shallow analysis

[Fate]

I mean seriously. The fuse is NOT deadly allure. Deadly allure is Black and green for one, so its not even comparable because its not in the same colors. I also dont know how you can even think "deathtouch" and "doublestrike" are even remotely similar in terms of the effects they can have on the boardstate. Also I doublechecked: Deadly allure is "must be blocked" not ALL creatures must block this creature this turn if able. I'm not going to spell out how huge of a difference that makes with a certain creature that "sees play lolz", but its a pretty big effect.

And armed is not shinen's of life roar, because its not double costed. Its also a creature/dangerous. This spell is ARMED and/or dangerous. It fits TWO things aggro could want into one slot. Hint: you're rarely going to be casting this as fused unless youre in mirror and playing control.

[Fate]

They chump it. Like 90% of the value from pump spells come from the fact that you can surprise your opponent with them at instant speed. The track record of pump spells that are not instant speed that are playable in the 20 year history of magic is basically Rancor and um... rancor. Both sides of this card have been printed before and I've never seen then be used by anything except the worst draft decks. Most of our judgement of playability comes from heuristics. No, I haven't tested every card in every scenario. That's absurd. I have, however, been playing magic since I was 6, know in general what kinds of cards are powerful enough to make the cut, and I have experience with very similar cards that have been bad.

you know whats funny

That you mention rancor but don't even look at the synergy this card has with it.

You don't play Armed when they can chump it, is that not common sense? I mean, yes if you play a card retardedly it will be bad.

And you're not even commenting on the dangerous side, or the fact that it can be EITHER for the same card slot.

[Fate]

Because comparison to similar cards is completely worthless as a technique? The only way to really know how valuable a card is is to actually play with it, which is not an option open to me for obvious reasons. In lieu, I'm capable of making inferences from magic's long and not especially secretive history of competitive decklists, many of which are posted right here on this very internet. And even the briefest glimpse will show you that neither effect which Armed/Dangerous offers sees much play- not even aggro is particularly interested in playing pump spells, outside of Bloodrush, and the only time in recent memory that a Shiren of Life's Roar effect got played was in stompy decks hoping to overrun before a bad lategame locks them out. That said, Shiren of Life's Roar itself is used in Pauper for the Green Stompy decks, and the reasonably similar Deadly Allure was a reasonable sideboard against Hexproof. However, UW Delver is no longer format-ubiquitous, and Deadly Allure had the advantage of being cheap and having Flashback, both of which are advantages which Armed/Dangerous does not share.

In constructed, Armed is always going to be weaker in general than straight out kill, which is frequently available for the same cost, and Dangerous is always going to be overcosted and situational, and there's little reason to believe that paying a ton of mana for two mediocre effects is going to be desirable. Of course, I also have little illusion of convincing you, since you seem to decide which cards are good and which are bad entirely without reference to the world outside you; to wit the recent discussion on R/G Aggro, no doubt still the best deck in Fateland despite a lack of tournament showing.

So you're not humbled after you even blatantly compare cards incorrectly.

Blasphemous act seemed like a "bad" card right?

I can probably find a quote from chamber saying "it will never see play in a top tier deck".

Yet here we are, with blasphemous act having a respectable presence in decklists. Armed has an even more favorable interaction with Reckoner, it forces damage through AND allows you to redirect a SHITON of damage to the dome against a ground stall. OH WAIT I bet you fucks didn't even think of that interaction because you were too busy comparing this card to other cards with not even similar effects that aren't even fuse cards?

I thought so.

And I never said R/g aggro was the "best" deck, don't be retarded when you are insulted because your analysis of cards is shit. Find a quote from me saying Aggro is the best archetype, or the strongest. I just said that it was viable and that people had a horribly warped view of how aggro wins and plays. As for tournaments, I can't open a tournament's top 8 list of decklists without saying G/r aggro at least twice, so that's another blatant misrepresentation of the truth. And I know that a R/g list with muggings got 1st place at an SCG event: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=54899
OH shit? Is that FIRST place? Must have gotten lucky right?

I know I have little chance of taking you dumbfucks off your high horses of experiences because your pride and life revolve around being able to quote old magic cards with similar effects in different metas that didn't see play and equate new cards to them, but I still have this ridiculously small hope that one day one of my arguments will manage to make you take your heads out of your asses and become better players through flexibility and open mindedness.

The general consnesus is that "DGM offers nothing to standard, nothing will change" and I can guarantee right now that that is complete horseshit. There's a reason the pros are pros, they attack the meta with new cards from a different angle, they realize these cards are powerful and different than old cards with maybe comprable effects, and they use them. AND THEN you fucks echo that sentiment and go "ah yeah SEE now this cards good because X used it"

Fucking disgusting.

[Fate]

And most of the time, whatever you're doing with a pump spell can be replicated with either a kill spell or a direct damage spell anyway.

Maybe Armed/Dangerous is actually great. Not every preliminary analysis is accurate; sometimes cards turn out to be better than they look, generally thanks to how they interact with other cards in the set. Armed/Dangerous is unlikely to be one, but if you can build a top-tier deck that used Armed/Dangerous, I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. Until then, I'm going to assume that common knowledge of magic isn't suddenly void.

Well seeing as I've spent the last week or two playtesting it in my deck versus all your favorite "powerful decks d'jour" then yes, you should admit you're wrong unless you are willing to grind out games and show me its weakness versus its upside.

I know its weaknesses. I know yo guys are undervaluing said card because the archetypes YOU probably like are very strong against it (UWr for Shea, whatever the hell control ims ure you play sudo). Yeah its probably not a card I would keep in post board against control, thats asking to be 2-1d. But dropping armed T2? Thats a lot more damage than a "burn" spell. Searing spear is 3 damage. Armed is 4 with 1 drop, and it only goes up from there.

In a meta where people tap out to play thragtusks to stabilize them, Armed+trample is a HUGE amount of burst that should not be ignored or undervalued.

[Fate]

sorry this is the mugging list I meant to link:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=55268

Oh shit

no

that means...

No way

TWO R/g lists got FIRST place?

Well Kdowns

guess you have to take back that cheeky "But they never WON in any pof those links DID they HURRRDURRR??"

[Fate]

No. Armed is a bad card.

Why would I play a +1/+1 at Sorcery speed for 1R when for 1G I can get +4/+4 at instant speed? Please, tell me.

Yes, it has a decent synergy with Rancor... and that's it. That's the only reason to play the card, and that's not a compelling reason in my book.

It's sorcery speed. Double strike is a useless gain at sorcery speed.

PEdit: Gaining 1 extra damage on trample is NOT a huge amount of burst. Again - if you have trample (Rancor, creature is keyworded)... do you rather have +1/+1 or +4/+4 for the same exact mana cost.

This is pretty obvious to me.

Did you

miss

the part where it says

double strike

because I think you did.

You all seriously can;t be this terrible

[Fate]

Fate, I never did say that Aggro would never win a major tournament.

Are you a fucking politician? The fuck is this shit supposed to mean then:

In the End Fate, Did Aggro win the Event? No. It didn't.


Wait until Dragon's Maze comes out, Aggro will be Viable for the first Month before everything becomes accoustomed to it.

Well? "in the end, they didnt win so its not viable"

WHEN IT WINS

"well I never said it WOULDNT"

I

I'm done.

[Fate]

Some people asked me after I decided on the deck before winning the tournament why R/G? Isn't Naya Blitz faster? Isn't' Jund just more powerful? You're right on both counts. Jund has the ability to go 3/3 into a 3/3 with hate into a 4/1 haste flying unkillable monster. Naya Blitz has the ability to lay out ten power's worth of creatures on turn 2, which happened to me during the quarterfinals while I just had a Stromkirk Noble! Here's where Matt comes back into the picture, as I'd asked him the same question.

He said aggro is more about consistency than being fast or powerful. The most important aspect of playing aggro is making your opponent play your game and at your pace. To do that, your deck has to be reliable and threatening at the same time. You don't want to play Borderland Ranger in an aggressive deck; it shouldn't be about fixing your mana. It should be about applying pressure every chance you get to maximize the possibility that your opponents make mistakes and therefore maximize your opportunities to capitalize on them. It made sense, so I stuck with it.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26 ... t-Win.html

If you won't listen to me Shea, listen to someone who's won.

Naya Blitz is not where you want to be at with aggro, as you've seen yourself with its consistency. And you should also not judge the entire archetype off that deck

[Fate]

Jund aggro is a 3 color aggro deck with 12 shocks too...

AND it doesnt have caverns for the mana fixing.

The mana is strictly worse. The removal is better? Sure, but when the shell has included mogg flunkies at times... There's something wrong there. Experiment 1 into BTE+Boar is nice, but it requires 3 cards, and a mountain in play. I almost like Naya blitz better than jund just because of Thalia, mayor, frontline medic.

And to be more specific, which jund aggro are we talking abou there?

If its the one with Falkenraths and Hellkites, yeah the power is way better and borderland rangers make the mana way better. I like that deck a lot and would probably play it fi I had the cards especially cause it uses Domri better (not as my main over R/g, but as another solid deck if R/g sligh was hated out too much) But I also consider that more of a beatdown midrange deck than a true aggro deck because its playing... Borderland rangers. gyre sage and Bonfires.

The one I'm talking about that I don't like is the low curve one with dreg mangler, Ex. 1, boars, no gyre sages, etc.

[Fate]

my hand was four lands. the fifth one I played was my 9th land that game. I could've won the turn the tusk came down if 2/4 the land I drew had been literally anything else in my deck except cacklers. after the second tusk and black mana it was over

happens. should've had him g1 but couldn't get a 3rd land for lethal. also didnt win a single die roll all day (which just shows aggro really isn't just a coinflip deck for all you twofaced haters that are congratulating me now) gonna practice shuffling more heh

[Fate]

playe bant pant twice, then jund, esper control, rb zombies, jund. ID for last cause didbt want to play jnk lifegain before finals (was 6-0-1) if anyone cared

[Fate]

If in one game I got mana screwed and in the other I saw entirely different cards and got flooded (aka saw 2 reckoners g1, 0 g3, firefist striker g1, 0 g3, etc.) I clearly was seeing different "sides" of my deck rather than having a new randomized game.

But hey I'm just retarded /misguided/ don't know how probability/ works lets start another fucking argument again, etc.

No thanks

[Fate]

I added a land too, because 21 lands with 3 hellriders is mathematically correct. 4 hellriders on 20 land is just asking to be punished.

Lightning maulers are definitely worth it. If you can't run reckoners you're going to have to run a lot more burn in the SB for aggro MUs. Mortars, elecktrickery the whole shebang.

Pyreheart wolf is still a good card. He's no reckoner on defense but he can still chump block and come back, and he dumps advent of the wurm. I'm gonna be fitting him into my SB against rites decks and flash decks.

[Fate]

I think Azorius charm over devour flesh to catch back up on tempo lost from gates would be better, I know that card just really, really fucks me every time.

Just put like 15 sacrifice effects/ray of revelations in the SB for Bant Pants >_>b

[Fate]

verdict and terminus x4 seems a lot better than bonfires

[Fate]

fair point

[Fate]

Shea's right about LM vs. Firefist

also Kalonian Tusker is pretty unplayable for the same reason strangleroot geist is in R/g...

Shock will be playable because of the cards around it, like Chandra's phoenix and young pyromancer.

Red decks are going to become a lot more synergy oriented post rotation, which is pretty dangerous and bad for an aggro deck imo. Its hard to know if it'll still be viable, especially with doom blade and plenty of shit to break

up

synergy based cards, but we'll just have to see

[Fate]

Pillar's use rotates too, so....

there's this $80 card that begs to differ I think

[Fate]

thats what i was told yesterday at an event. 2nd hand info p. good

[Fate]

suggesting a 5 mana fuse card as an answer over pillar to the R/g player is al sorts of wrong I don't even know where to begin

[Fate]

When in doubt look to the Japanese:

Kouichi Tashiro
8th Place - Japan - Hyogo-ken - 5/11


9 Forest
5 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
22 lands

3 Arbor Elf
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Sublime Archangel
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Wolfir Silverheart
30 creatures

4 Advent of the Wurm
4 Rancor
8 other spells

Sideboard
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Plummet
3 Ray of Revelation
3 Rest in Peace
1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
3 Unflinching Courage



Still no good replacement for Voices but I'd probably just throw fencing ace in there for lulz and go to town (or just keep your experiment 1s)

[Fate]

voice hasn't given me that much trouble and adapting the MB of an aggro deck to deal with one card is kinda meh. I could MB pillars if I really hated the card enough, but I don't.

[Fate]

I have two temple gardens+sunpetal grove

trade for the reckoners back and huehuefullcircle

[Fate]

well youve got the core Pyreheart wolfx4 and VSx4, and the rest is just flex spots.

Loyalist does some work against Junk Aristocrats.

Elecktrickery can OCCASIONALLY be good against Junk rites killing 2-3 dorks+lingering souls or something, is also good against mirror aggro and crushes naya blitz.

Domri Rade really isn't necessary so don't bother trying to track him down.

Never been a fan of TBlood variants because there isn't enough stuff to take out in my experience without diluting your deck.

Mortars isn't bad, especially if the "izzet blitz" deck becomes popular and you need to kill Nivix cyclops.

Ranger's guile is worth experimenting because fuck the UWr Flash and Esper match-up sometimes.

Personally 3x pillar and 4x madcap skills makes your control match pretty hard. LMauler crushes that match-up. Madcap is usually guaranteed for 3 damage if you play it on 1 drop, if you dont have a 1drop BTE+LM is much better, plus LM+1 drop for 3 mana is pretty good especially if you curve into hellrider (LM gives hellrider triggers). Also hasting out pyreheart wolf and boros reckoner can't be ignored either.

I would run either Madcap OR pillars MB, whichever you feel is more important. Yeah LM feels sad when you play him and they play lingering souls, but he's better against any deck that "stumbles" or tries to stabilize off one removal spell (which will be easy for them if you madcap something).

Madcap is better vs. voice and naya and creature defenses, which is why I run both. I don't run Pillars MB because its just always underwhelmed me, but its probably a playstyle thing and up for debate.

[Fate]

The temple gardens are great, do you have experience with the deck at all AGar?

I did Ash Zealot as a 3/4x in the SB, and she does some work against control and doubletime against lingering souls. It'd be an easy 1-1 swap post board with firefist striker against any snapcaster deck, OR any lingering soul deck.

She is, oddly enough, too slow for the MB though.

[Fate]

madcap is pretty good, if yuo consider 2 mana for 3 damage is the equivalent of a spear, and some games it just steals if they DONT have an answer in hand and were relying on creature defense (tap out for voice? heres a madcap bitch)

I was only saying that in combination with pillars as well, the control match-up might be very unfavorable, so some balance should be found.

[Fate]

well with only 8 green lands there are more games than id like with dead rampagers and flinthoof boars in hand. Temple smooths that out more

[Fate]

um.

I wouldn't say its "blanked" by 2 blockers, not even kind of.

Shea has the right idea here. I know everyones looking at it on paper and going "ZOMG ENCHANTMENT BAD TRAP TRP 2-1 EASY" but the way the deck plays it doesn't mind 2-1s if youre dead, and its not like you lack threats to play into "removal" mana for either.

[Fate]

I know you weren't. I was saying you're wrong that its "blanked" by two blockers, especially in a deck that runs Rampager.

The second part was to anyone that was saying it was "bad"

[Fate]

I think we've come to the consensus that you are pretty solidly not an aggro player, Natirasha. Didn't blink an eye when you said you were Jund

[Fate]

The toughness is mainly why you play it, but unblockable is pretty sweet too. Pushing shit out of mortars range against decks is good too. Also against Aristocrats (red version) they can pretty easily double block your madcap with lingering souls and then you have to deal with their reckoners without mountain walk.

A Madcap Reckoner is hilarious, but in the mirror I literally have 0 answers to a 5/5 reckoner, unless I've been pocketing pillar and spear for the long (which means you probably fucked up).

You can also get free wins with a VSd noble, which won me a grindy game against a Naya deck.


I strongly reccomend against Acts. You don't have any draw or way to make it reliable kill-combo with Reckoner, so usually it just ends up being dead or a reset button against decks that WILL overpower you in topdeck mode.

Considering I lost to a Junk tokens deck I'd say add another loyalist but I have no idea what kinda meta you're lookin at. Loyalist is definitely house against any Voice of resurgence deck, lingering soul deck, fringe populate decks ( a bunch of bant populate decks placed well in japan last week), advent of the wurmd deck, etc.

Elecktrickery is just awkward because in the end you spend a card to deal with half a lignering souls. Its still good against Naya Blitz but Flames of the firebrand is better there imo.

[Fate]

you might want to re-read her +1 more thoroughly...

[Fate]

you might want to re-read her +1 more thoroughly...

Falter a creature you've pinged is super unimpressive with domri in the format. Again, I just don't see the deck where she fits.

she's not going to see play until hellrider rotates probably, because they fight at 4 cmc, but she is definitely going to fit in red decks. Her abilities are super relevant

no one fucking listened to me about R/g aggro, so give me the credit here

[Fate]

RBW is pretty obnoxious yeah.

wait esper aggro wut

you

o pie

[Fate]

one of terminus seems silly when you're an aggro deck, jus sayin. You could always throw in an extra counterspells for THEIR terminus and what not

[Fate]

got 2x loxodon smiters and 1x advent btw reck


damn I wish I hadnt traded your deathrites now

[Fate]

Feeling of dread is the fucking nuts though in an aggrotempo deck....

I'm pretty sure that effect, twice, will win you fuckton more games than the times you miracle the 2-of terminus and shit on your own board state.

[Fate]

advent for that overgrown tomb back

<_<b

[Fate]

why are you guys feeding him lies

[Fate]

U/W/G Control+Flash, G/B Control+Midrange, 4-color Reanimator, R/W/G Humans, R/W/G Aggro

yeah but pretty much every archetype has placed highly as some point. Except RUG, nobody loves RUG.

[Fate]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/search.p ... D=1&auto=Y

http://sales.starcitygames.com/search.p ... D=1&auto=Y

http://sales.starcitygames.com/search.p ... D=1&auto=Y

hmmmmmmmm

[Fate]

What's so bad about standard exactly? Pie just listed over a dozen archetypes that are viable, when's the last time that happened? What's the last standard format you enjoyed and why?

[Fate]

Thanks for the well-reasoned post.

[Fate]

me and nuwen both completed our standard deck through just drafting and trades, spent literally $20 for two stomping grounds when gatecrash first came out and traded for everything.
I mean the money spent on drafting probably adds up, but we'd be doing that anyway for fun right?

Granted, aggro decks are cheaper than the resto/snapcaster decks or the other decks, but if you're smart about your trades I still think Standard is a lot more manageable than saving up for a legacy land base and then still having to buy all the other cards. At least if you're starting from scratch like panzer

[Fate]

hmmm

let me put it this way:

its probably more cost efficient to save up for legacy and then haev ad eck that will always be good with few changes to play with

its more fun efficient to draft and buy/trade a little bit toward your deck each season >___>b

[Fate]

It really all comes down to whether they are dick/there are promo cacklers on the line >___>

I had one guy try to syncopate my rancor for 3 when I had 3 mana up after casting BTE, he forgot BTE gave me mana to cast the rancor, so I let him take it back because that felt like a pretty cheap way to win/get ahead.

But then later it was Game 3 of a really long grindy game against Junk Aristocrats, and he tried to abrupt decay my hellrider, and uh, I let it fizzle becacuse I needed that damn hellrider (and the reckoner I played later that turn <__<) He didn't ask to take it back and there were a bunch of people watching, so I figured he was just more mad at himself for being a dumbass then me trying to "rules lawye"r him for a win.


I do have a problem with people playing to quickly though. Like, if youre playing against a Red deck and try to flicker an augur, fuckin let me respond first to spear the fucker before you pick up the top 3 cards as if it resolved...

[Fate]

hmmm. I think I knew in the back of my mind thats how it worked too...now that you say it I remember a judge in Vegas making someone put their mizzium mortars back in their hand after they targeted one of their own creatures with it


WALP

GOTTA DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO FOR THE PROMO CACKLERS.

[Fate]

dunno if I'd say no one is prepared to deal with young pyromancer combo... I'm pretty sure that deck has no chance against Jund.

I also don't know why you think only Mono Black can use Burning Earth effectively..

[Fate]

dunno if I'd say no one is prepared to deal with young pyromancer combo... I'm pretty sure that deck has no chance against Jund.

I also don't know why you think only Mono Black can use Burning Earth effectively..

[Fate]

Are there any aggro Zoo type legacy lists? I know in Modern there's a bunch of kird ape.decs, but it doesnt seem like creature based strategies do much work in legacy

[Fate]

dragon stompy you say.....

[Fate]

that's fair, and to be expected I guess. Blue is sort of the "magic" color

MonoR goblins is a deck though right? or still thinking modern

[Fate]

lol i remember reading about the hanweir watchkeep or w/e werewolf deck. I guess tahts what dragon stompy has become

[Fate]

if youre going the 1 creature route, Demonic Rising beats the shit out of homicidal seclusion pretty much every day

[Fate]

especially since the mail is hard to remove and can be activated any time.


Nuwen did this trick with rakdos keyrune+demonic rising. She also had vampire night haawks and other shit to be a bit more creature dense to get it online though.

its pretty powerful once online 5/5 demons no joke son

[Fate]

it definitely feels kinda shoved in there.... I don't think it will do you want you want most of the time Pie, since you're running 4 total things that enable the "Seclusion" engine?

If youre gonna go for it, go balls deep with Lone Revenant , VNH and shit.

[Fate]

built in lifegain on fiendslayer paladin is literally retarded.

"So guys, the only way r/b decks can interact with this is by creatures! This makes it better than giving it protection"

"um, what r/b dudes actually block well?"

"Iunno... reckoner?"

"What if they give paladin flying? Suit it up with sweet enchantments from Theros, etc?"

"O.... well it doesnt say hexproof so we didnt..... o.... Overload a mortars? >__>"

fucking

bs

[Fate]

lol yeva is like a 20cent magic card.


I'm going to flash stomp my way to some victories

[Fate]

splash green for abundant growth to hit your blue more reliably

[Fate]

shadowborn apostle you mean?

[Fate]

gaaaaaaaaaaaay

[Fate]

Ajani really isn't that bad...

[Fate]

he has the smiters apparently, i have a 4th advent for him. Sovereigns are like $2 ea?

[Fate]

Went deep at my work draft tonight. 2 Elite Arcanist, 2 Silence, myriad of control cards

did you get it online >_>

[Fate]

<________<


good thing you didnt draft with us last night. Literally NO one went blue. Frost breaths, claustrophobias, opportunities, the 2U card draw, that 3/4 aetherling pump thing, wheeled round and round.

[Fate]

gamma you were kalonian hydra.dec your colors didnt matter damnt

[Fate]

btw found some clownies to trade for the last 2 watery graves reck

[Fate]

nothing but I found the guy. He was just busy trading with someone else

[Fate]

RECK LOST IT

[Fate]

Cyclonic rift can definitely be a miracle against a jund with a bunch of horesshit out (lets say: Pithing needle on your jace, garruk, a bunch of beasts from garruk, rakdos keyruke, etc.) and help pull you back in the game.

I also think you should fit in 1x mind grind here or am I just going that deep >______>

[Fate]

1 Dimir Guildgate
4 Drowned Catacomb
8 Island
3 Nephalia Drownyard
6 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
26 lands

2 Augur of Bolas
3 Snapcaster Mage
5 creatures

2 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Dissipate
3 Doom Blade
1 Essence Scatter
3 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Opportunity
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Rewind
2 Syncopate
3 Think Twice
2 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
2 Warped Physique
29 other spells

Sideboard
1 Augur of Bolas
1 Cremate
1 Curse of Death's Hold
3 Devour Flesh
2 Duress
2 Negate
1 Nephalia Drownyard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Tragic Slip

Is the czech list btw. 3 MB ratchet bombs eh, as well as MB curse of death's hold. Probably tuned for an expected meta, id mostly care about the mana base

[Fate]

siding out aetherling for pithing needle in a control mirror is pretty brilliant

Drownyards op

[Fate]

hell maybe just a 3rd pithing needle over the notion thief then?

His deck really gets stomped by PW

[Fate]

Reck's deck is pretty soft to 3 cmc Planeswalker, like Domri and Lili.

Jund has a LOT of shit that must be countered. Olivia is probably sided out like you said, huntmaster yeah can be answered.... by like barter in blood. if you tap out for that then a thragtusk or garruk resolves then.

Reck can win with just drownyards but he's not playing THAT many counterspells. If a PW resolves against him his deck really does suffer, so having pithing mitigates it

[Fate]

did reck mention the part where he pithing needled a Falkenrath aristocrat when literally all of his removal spells get through indestructible?

Oh and then then Nuwen played her Chandra two turns later

AWKWARDDDDDDDDDD

[Fate]

Also reck you were saying you wanted desecration demons for another win con.

Maybe Vampire night hawk instead? You don't have much going on at 3 cmc besides 2 counterspells and one side of far and away. And between augur and nighthawk your aggro MU should go a lot more smooth. Especially if they are spearing your night hawk or trading with it, it sets up better barter in blood.


I just think you rather tap out at 3 mana if its safe than at 4 mana, where you can hold up like an essence scatter, negate, syncopate, or even waped physique+ think twice mana to start getting ahead

[Fate]

We're tunin yo deck for you Reck best appreciate

[Fate]

if it makes you feel better he got scrubbed out by Blasphemous Act red decks today.

I got 2nd, lost in the finals to jund cause HERPDERP

[Fate]

just when you think youve gone and played a nonmeta deck #blameLSV

[Fate]

It was played in the world champs like a week ago........

the world champs was specifically a meta in which a team could NOT use more than 4 of any card across the three of them...

I'd hardly call that "standard meta"

Esper hasn't been on the radar for months really and UB definitely isn't a deck that people are familiar with.

[Fate]

I read some of these clownies, like that one guy who was all "lol so yeah chandra is a lot stronger than I though, my initial read on her was terribad. Now let me replace hellrider with her and go full clownmode in the OTHER direction" and wonder why anyone would ever pay them for this content

[Fate]

the mana base to make slivers is RIDIC expensive.


Why the fuck has no one suggested Mono Red yet. Cuz that's a REAL deck sons ;D

[Fate]

oh they did suggest red

nuwen you liar

[Fate]

I'm pretty sure hellrider is down to like $3 or something crazy and its worth picking him up just because hes the best card MonoR plays right now

[Fate]

2 Madcap Skills
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Firefist Striker
4 Mogg Flunkies
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Hellrider

4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
22 Mountain


thats a better list though some cards are rotating youll only rotate out like <$10 worth

[Fate]

Humanimator is fo reals combo. Too bad scavenging ooze completely invalidates it. I need to put my paper version back together because I promised some 12 year olds they could try it out for an event.

I've done really well with RG aggro that cost less than $20, not counting the lands. I played mono green last night and did very well, but kalonian hydra ruins the budget on that one. One of the kids borrowed my bant voltron and won a lotus with it. I think there's a decent budget version of that to be built too. Aristocrats without red might be viable, and would certainly be much cheaper.

Mono G doesnt need Hydra, it needs Silverhearts:


19 Forest
3 Mutavault

4 Arbor Elf
4 Predator Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Druid's Familiar
4 Elvish Archdruid
2 Young Wolf

4 Rancor
2 Revenge of the Hunted



If yuo don't have mutavaults its still fine.

STOMP.

[Fate]

scavenging ooze ruins the budget too but its not 100% necessary

[Fate]

The extra toughness is so huge.

He's much better with mutavault, granted, but I still think he's fine with BTE, LM, etc. enablers.


The thing with Hydra is he's an entire turn slower than Wolfir for affecting the board, and that's incredibly important. Raphael Levy is a good magic player, and he choose Silverheart over Hydra for a reason.

Silver heart comes down, lets something paired swing in, and gives an 8/8 on defense. Hydra comes down, begs to be removed, begs to be bloodrushed over, etc.

Though I'm not saying Hydra isn't good. I'm hoping his price drops because I'm DEFINITELY forcing a Hellraiser Goblin->Rubblebelt Raiders-> Kalonian Hydra deck post rotation >_____>b

And you bet your ass armed and dangerous will be in there XD

[Fate]

the toughness dose matter, trust me.

One difference being having your board wiped for Bonfire x=2 and having a sad follow up hellrider vs. mogg flunkies surviving and following up with a hellrider for 8 damage or jsut a mutavault+flunkies for 5.

Not dying to the first side of strangleroot geist, pillar of flame, etc.

[Fate]

1-1 removal just doesn't scare you that much when you're playing a threat each turn from 1 mana and sometimes 2 a turn with BTE. It puts people in situations where its very hard to catch-up without a board wipe, aka like Shea said.

[Fate]

FATE COUNTERS?

[Fate]

so.......... the GG 5/5 snake is gonna have the devotion mechanic.

TUSKERS HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Fate]

Legendary Enchantment Creature — God Mythic Rare
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to blue is less than five, Thassa isn’t a creature. (Each {U} in the mana costs of permanents you control adds to your devotion to blue.)
At the beginning of your upkeep, scry 1.
1{U}: Target creature you control can't be blocked this turn.


This looks liek a bit too much bullshit but LOLBLUE

[Fate]

it got spoiled on MTGS I thought they only did offical spoilers?

[Fate]

also its missing on the copy and paste but

as a creature the gods a 5/5 P/T

[Fate]

blind obediance can't trigger battalion, can't block, etc.

Firemane avenger is gonna be sweet though

[Fate]

another point in favor of the brew crew is that, by playing with 4/5 set decklists and trying them out and seeing how they run, you can also identify the WEAKEST cards that will be the first ones you look to cut upon seeing what Theros has toadd to your deck.

As well as just generally figuring out "what the deck needs" to better evaluate spoilers is pretty tech too.

Is it 100% optimal and efficient? No, but its not your time thats being "wasted", so I dont really see the point of being insulting about it

[Fate]

I mean its where people start though and its not the worse place to start

[Fate]

TRAMPLE FOR GREEEEEN


TRAMPLE FOR GREEEEEEEEEEEEEN

[Fate]

RECK SOUND MAD


RG RAMP NEW DECK BEST DECK

[Fate]

5 loyalty is a pain to deal with. depending on the cards exiled a deck might have to stop to deal with it, and getting 5 damage through disruption can be pretty hard

[Fate]

Let me remind you of your Boros reckoner evaluation chamber

[Fate]

our store apparently sucks at self adveritisng said celebration day

Not gonna worry about it, still free rolling FNM.


Chandra is the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

[Fate]

Let me remind you of your Boros reckoner evaluation chamber

I'm right (within reasonable tolerance) way more often than I'm wrong.

Edit: Also outside of the initial weekend where gatecrash made its debut I don't think my evaluation of reckoner was actually that far off(though still probably fairly outside reasonable tolerance), its only seen borderline play since then.

Then you must have missed that good 2-3 month period where the R/g deck-the one you all told me was shit and bad and not Tier 1 and never had a chance to be tier 1 cuz lolaggro-was the biggest threat in standard and overplayed to shit and back. Boros Reckoner was definitely one of the best cards in that deck alongside hellrider and Ghor-Clan Rampager (another card people didn't even like when Gatecrash was first spoiler and released, but quickly caught on as variations of Saito's Gruul list using them teared up daily events)

With hellrider going I'm pretty sure he's one of the best cards red has and if-secret predictions made by secret red clans- Boros is the new goto Aggro deck of choice come rotation (they have a lot of powerful tools and cards) Reckoner is gonna do work there as well.

[Fate]

I'm sorry, its just when literally this entire thread turned into "me vs. them" its kinda hard not too.

Especially when all those people conveniently "shut up" and disappeared when facts and results occurred that showed their stances to be completely wrong, instead of humbly making concessions or anything.

So when they come back makign MORE stances and saying "well In the past ive always been more right than wrong" it kinda sets me off.


Looking back Bv, I realize that you had only said Aggro might not be good ni the current meta, not that it was an unviable archetype, so I've got no issues there.

[Fate]

Please point to me saying RG aggro was bad?

Well its impossible to quote cockatrice chat, but you did say "your deck might just be shit" and "it seems bad" among other things about R/g aggro when we were testing its worst match-up.


Obviously not everything I'm saying is directly attributed to you. Hence the me vs. them explanation, and my general feeling towards the people that hated on aggro.

And yes I'm being antagonistic, who the fuck do you think I am? I'll bring up times in the past where you were wrong to combat your current evaluation of cards, and I don't see any foul play in doing so. I usually only comment on cards I really feel strongly about, so when people just make flash judgements about certain cards I'm probably giong to call them out.

@Sudo:
BTW I forgot to say this but YES the UB PW is strictly worse than Drownyard

and that's a good thing.

. It shows that wizard is moving toward a more interactive meta of magic, where NO you dont get mill on a land that no one can stop (without Land destruction). You get it on a PW with 5 loyalty that can be dealt with. That PW also has different upsides than drownyard could.

Anyway in this "new different meta" of magic, its very possible that the UB PW will be very playable, because the meta DOESNT need a drownyard and the overall power level of cards has decreased.

[Fate]

i think the -X is what is going to make him affect the board state, so we'll just have to see

[Fate]

Which is part of my point. You're stealing nothing this turn, so you're spending a three drop and a deck slot in the hopes that you get to mill and steal a four drop on your second turn. But you could have done something else with your turn three, and then played a four drop next turn anyway. And it's unlikely that a random four from your opponents deck is going to have more synergy with your deck than the four you could have played instead.

except....

the random 4....


costs MANA? uses up an entire turn?

Like I have no idea what you're arguing... that he could eb a different card (creature) altogether???

Planeswalkers are engines. 3 mana planeswalker engines are usuallly very good. Ajani wasn't, but what engine does ajani build? None. You need to have a creature already, so he was kinda bad.



This one is a self contained engine, that if not dealt with, will provide value every turn. You can argue that the value is bad, but I think its a powerful effect in a lot of MUs

[Fate]

Didn't people say Domri was a bad PW too? "Comes down and can do nothing?"

[Fate]

if you've noticed, even aggro decks aren't stuffed full of creatures,

stopped reading.

My point is that people have been notoriously bad at evaluating Planeswalkers, and I tend to overestimate 3 mana planeswalkers.

People didnt like Chandra either. She can come down and "do 1 damage" and not use her 0 etc. etc. But she sure as hell has been an all star for me

So yeah, when people are saying about yet ANOTHER planeswalkers "wow what a pile won't see play" I'm inclined not to listen

[Fate]

Answer this for me, Fate: Why is Ashiok worth the slots in a maindeck? What does this card do that makes me win the game? Milling 3 is not a win condition. Possibly stealing a creature if you're lucky is not a win condition. Stripping their hand is not a win condition. Having to stick your planeswalker for 3 or 4 turns just to get a random creature from their deck is just not worth it. Having to dedicate slots in your deck for a theoretical creature that'll never be something YOU want is not good.

I think its versatile enough in enough match-ups to warrant slots in the MB. I think this has been argued to death and obviously no one is ever going to change their mind until results are posted and a metagame is formed...

[Fate]

it does a few things if you aren't being narrow minded

[Fate]

FIREDRINKER SATYR IS HERE TO CHEER YOU UP


RIP FOUNDRY STREET NOBODY LOVED YOU ANYWAY

[Fate]

.....

cackler and satyr are BOTH better than foudnry street by miles.

I know he's cute with the token making and whatever, but without legion loyalist he's a bit embarassing. Satyr is way more consistent.


As for a more midrange build, the powers at be have this shell now that the 3 mana board wipe was printed:


4x Frostburn Weird
4x Reckoner
4x Stormbreath Dragon

1x Hammer

3x Chandra herself

4x Anger of the Gods
Xx asloads of burn removal, mortars, shocks, lightning strike, magma jet.


Its pretty solid

[Fate]

.....

cackler and satyr are BOTH better than foudnry street by miles.

I know he's cute with the token making and whatever, but without legion loyalist he's a bit embarassing. Satyr is way more consistent.


As for a more midrange build, the powers at be have this shell now that the 3 mana board wipe was printed:


4x Frostburn Weird
4x Reckoner
4x Stormbreath Dragon

1x Hammer

3x Chandra herself

4x Anger of the Gods
Xx asloads of burn removal, mortars, shocks, lightning strike, magma jet.


Its pretty solid

[Fate]

if you want a token deck
1. they need to print a few more token makes
2. Purphorous is very sweet, I'd avoid the 1 drops. You dont aim at turning on his devotion, he's more just a burn them out enchantment. I can imagine him+Chandra phoenix+Chandra being the only cards you need to win a few MUs

[Fate]

this format is gonna kickass.

[Fate]

I meant the standard enviroment looks pretty deep and different. There aren't that many "well you HAVE to play this card" inclusions to create an entire deck, and you can't just replace rotating cards with new ones and keep a deck (besides mono R prob)

[Fate]

2 peopple draft

wut

[Fate]

thats the first deck yuo brew reck

goddamnt

[Fate]

I think Ill keep the real mono red list a secret, so I can steamroll standard for the first few weeks

(reck already knows first hand its POWAH)

[Fate]

MINOTAURS.DEC EASY

[Fate]

My experience was not playing a single enchantment and straight up ROFLING when I thoughtseized a guy who had 3 enchantment removal spells in his hand

[Fate]

I'm pretty sure you can't play nightveil spectre with that mana base, bv

[Fate]

you'd have to make the forests overgrown tombs at the least, and -1 shrine +1` tomb

[Fate]

Glad someone who's done some actual TESTING with the card sees Ashiok's worth

[Fate]

I would suggest you cut ashiok for a card that actually does something.

like have you literally played a single game with her?

[Fate]

its literally just math, not opinion. Your cast on curve rate with 6 sources that can't cast Nightveil specter isn't good. (don't have exact percentages in front of me). Or shuold I say, with only 17 sources TO cast him on curve its very unlikely

I played Boros reckoner long enough to know anecdote wise as well.

[Fate]

MB psychic spiral, now THATS a bit questionable

[Fate]

yeah I'd keep it as DD and keep the list pure and keep repping Ashiok against the haters

[Fate]

stomped the shit out of white weenies >_>b SMASH

went 3-1 lost to nuwen cause awesome

Nuwen 4-0d pretty promptly cause lol meta game so easy to beat

[Fate]

STAHP

[Fate]

I really like the Kuroda Boros type deck Shea.

Ember swallower is the shit pie what are you talking about

[Fate]

Magma Jet has been incredibly hard for us to find as well, we've seen more Heliod's than Magma jets. (but shea shouldnt you have like 1000 of the original ones you old school)

[Fate]

I've actually been playtesting a Tymaret deck on Cockatrice:

4 Blood Crypt
2 Rakdos Guildgate
6 Mountain
12 Swamp
4 Tenacious Dead
4 Tymaret, the Murder King
4 Magma Jet
4 Anger of the Gods
3 Dreadbore
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
3 Underworld Connections
3 Rakdos Keyrune
4 Trading Post
3 Liliana of the Dark Realms

the hell are you ramping into with keyrune and liliana swamps.

Where's rakdos' return goddamnt

[Fate]

I'd probably SB the Assembles for another Helix and Stormbreath dragon/Swallower, tbh. It can be really dead and bad against aggro (which you arent immune to despite all the removal and reckoners believe me), and it seems like a card you don't want to show g1 so they don't know whether to prepare for it or not g2.

Also your SB has Burning earths right? Thats still a card, and i think its one of the better ways to beat that RBW midrange deck I saw some tryhards using as the "go-to new Jund"
And its not bad to have a free win against anyone forcing 3-colors/Maze's End

[Fate]

I'd probably SB the Assembles for another Helix and Stormbreath dragon/Swallower, tbh. It can be really dead and bad against aggro (which you arent immune to despite all the removal and reckoners believe me), and it seems like a card you don't want to show g1 so they don't know whether to prepare for it or not g2.

Also your SB has Burning earths right? Thats still a card, and i think its one of the better ways to beat that RBW midrange deck I saw some tryhards using as the "go-to new Jund"
And its not bad to have a free win against anyone forcing 3-colors/Maze's End

[Fate]

DAMNT KDOWNS

[Fate]

Magma jets.

tell usyour story then well talk

[Fate]

lol the red deck that got the furthest was playing fanatic of mogis

TELL EM KDOWNS

TELL EM

And therse no way that the Esper deck that almost got there is playing ASHIOK is there?? o_O

[Fate]

tell them what I said about fanatic I meant jeez

[Fate]

you already have a big incentive to block/kill it.... not dying


its draw back is only really relevant in the mirror

[Fate]

hue

[Fate]

too good to read fate ninjas I see

[Fate]

damnt the encouragement

[Fate]

MASTER OF GODDAMN
FUCKIN
WAVES

WHESNA DOOMBLADE DECK GONNA STOMP SOME HOES

[Fate]

i told you aerial predation is trash

[Fate]

propeht of kruphix bant lifegain is kicking my ass goddamn it reck

[Fate]

hell yeah I do, I got like 4 dimir charm promos so as many as you can win

[Fate]

THE ENCOURAGEMENT

[Fate]

Yep, that's how that works. Also how the Modern Nivmagus deck works, where you're casting and exiling Bolts pointed at him to gain the last bits of damage to win.

don't lightning bolts do more damage than 2 +1/+1 counters >___>


PJelly:
List def looks interseting. I'd want dynacharges main and triton tactics in the SB though, mainly because I think a maindeck should be as streamlined as possible in dealing 20 damage as fast as its game plan can acheive (and triton tactics doesn't increase your clock, just blows out other creature decks).

I also suggest cutting down on the 1 and 2-ofs to get 4-ofs of the effects you want all the time, such as the 1 mortars, 1 hands of bidning, 1 purphoros (seems like your hand would mostly be empty by the time he comes down with no card draw effects)

[Fate]

What’s something unusual about you?
I can lick my elbow!

What’s something unusual about you?
I watch a lot more reality TV than I’d like to admit…

What’s something unusual about you?
I’m a Podcaster, Streamer,

and huge fan of the game!

What’s something unusual about you?
Although i have attended three GPs since i have rejoined the game i have had to leave all of them due to random reasons, including my thesis review with X-2 records or better

wow, truly "hipsters" of the coast. Now I see how you were felled by this impressive competition

[Fate]

he said "exiling bolts pointed at him" him I figured referred to nivmagus elemental, which meant he was aiming his own bolts at nivmagus to exile them for more damage, but it wouldn't do more damage that turn?

I guess he meant just to have more damage over more turns....

[Fate]

that one-landers a snap keep don't be a bitch pie

[Fate]

got 2nd at standard open trial due to tiebreakers, beat the 1st place guy in finals who was playing G/R devotion.

After beating him I told him Armed//Dangerous wasn't jank, its a better card than Garruk at 6 mana.

He took that one real well, I thought of you guys.

[Fate]

well I guess this is the point where I say "he started it" with the dicking attitude, but that likely won't make anyone think I was in the "right."

But man, this guy had a stick REAL far up his ass.

"wow I can't believe a trash tier deck like mono red has made it into the top 4"
"Im gonna be real pissed if I make it all this way undefeated then losing to fucking jank in the finals."
"turn 1 thoughtseize EVERY fucking game, jesus christ I'm tired of you mono black fuckers."


shit like that. Obviously Garruk is a better card in devotion, I was just telling him that because my strategy of putting him on tilt had been successful so I kept it up.

And yeah its playable, like I said it was a shitton of pages ago. I don't get this perception in the magic community that "potentially getting 2-1d" cards are just worse magic cards. Risky cards with powerful as fuck effects are still powerful, you just have to manage them well and have good reads.

Course it can be very bad against 1-1 removal decks like mono black because its not a threat, so I'm keeping it in my SB for now. Its definitely house at catching up on the "broken" scale of things that devotion decks and G/W (from a G/R point of view, the cards G/W plays are fucking broken yes) are doing.

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temple of silence is one of those lands, so even if you have the COLORS you aren't casting soldier T1, captain T2, lfiebane/downfall, etc. T3

so there's literally like a 10% chance you can curve out with lands, because you HAVE to have godless shrines and 1 plains 1 swamp.

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the people you want her against dont.play lightning strike


see xenagos.


yes.reck fine. jaceless superfriends, until duel deck comes out

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fwiw stormbreath should be insane when mortars/doom blade rotate

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stormbreath is 15?

time to finish DAT playset


I agree that theyll print removal.... that will hit stormbreath... (downfall still exists for instance)

I just think mortars existing is a HUGE takeaway for stormbreath. The fact that red can kill your 5-drop for 2 mana is a pretty huge thing. especially since overloading it and hitting stormbreath+anything else on your board is usually just lights out.

interested to see what new 2 cmc removal black will get with devour flesh, ultimate price, doom blade going too.

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did they not offer store credit at a greater rate thatn 2.50 a pack to go infinite with>

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he said it was free

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is it bad i cant tell what the difference is

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wait what shanba plays standard

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dont all the tokens of packrat count as having 2 cmc?

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I mean they count for devotion so Im pretty sure

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it is pretty bad to have maindeck except in U/X control though I think

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I think Xenegos the god trumps any news about the possible end of Magic's value


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

so


fuckin

good

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Don't get the point of counterfeiting when you can print proxies of any card.

r u srs

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at first I was with shea because reasonable or w/e.... but Nabakov has definitely swung me.


Magic will DEFINITELKY change if theres a coutnerfeit market and cards are worth the paper they are printed on..... but will it be the END? No. I think the game is far too developed and entrenched. Maybe it will hugely downside because 90% of people were in it just so they could have something of value out of the game they play

but magic won't die. the people who truly love the game will make it work like he says, I believe.

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90% of tournaments are a scam anyway...

like theres' no way you disagree that PTQs are a huge trap, right?

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I mean EV wise... $25 for a tournament that only "pays out" to first place is just too much to justify.

Game stores can still host the cash tournaments or whatever if they have enough of a base (I think if EVERYONE can play WHATEVER deck they want literally, then tournament attendance like that might even increase)

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I mean I get the experience part...but like shea said isn't it a miserable experience to play for 10 hours in a smelly room with no breaks (if you are playing a slow deck for example)?

good competitive magic doesn't need to be as taxing on soul in my opinion... if people enjoy that and aren't solely just chaing the carrot all the power to them...


Even if you are good shea, and I dont want to bring this argument back but there still is variance. You can top 8 every ptq if youre real good but can you always win everyone? What if someone playing the high risk high payout deck (5-color goodstuff or somethin) just gets there? It just seems more frustrating than its worth

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I think what Nuwen is trying to say is Wizards makes a gross fucking amount of money off magic and is a super corporation and if that gets toned down than its better for the world at large yo

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I meant it's another thing you wanted to say

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to get back on topic with counterfeiting mtg cards...

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what does spear do about aetherling?

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but the KIORAZ

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XENAGOD ALREADY

DO WANT