Dota 2 Thread: REBORN SOURCE 2 HYPETRAIN NOBRAKES

[Katsuki]

My experiences with jungling cents on my team have never ended remotely well.

It's probably not too bad if you don't have bad jungling luck and are left alone I would imagine, especially if you pay attention to map.

[BBmolla]

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=109826

Oh my god

[Katsuki]

yeah, 1.1k ms bloodseeker.

[Redelphic]

Wtf I was just getting used to the old dota, now it's all changed. xD

Some good, some bad. Gonna be weird at first.

Broodmother can go over cliffs and trees with webs now, seems unnecessary.

Omg Ags Skywrath 0 second flare cooldown. Now you shall all die >:D

[Katsuki]

Brood change very necessary, it's not possible to play her at all at higher MMRs due to how easily she gets countered.

[ArcAngel9]

Brood change very necessary, it's not possible to play her at all at higher MMRs due to how easily she gets countered.

True....
Senatry wards are easy counters and they are so cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel brood should have some kind of poison stunt or something like that..... and i am not a fan of her ulti.

[Natirasha]

Nightstalker is an awful hero and I hate Icefrog for making him better.

[BBmolla]

I like Nightstalker. Really puts the pressure on a team, "It's day let's go fight him!" "It's night, turtle down!" etc.

[Unmasked Kit]

I hate that he removed night vision for some night heroes, particularly drow and mirana.

Dropping random gold was also bad. No reason for it...

Also new roshan changes favor dire so strongly that it's silly.

[ArcAngel9]

fuck there are so many changes..but why?

[Natirasha]

Like, I've always been sorta critical of Icefrog--i think he had 6.74 in a really good place and every update since has just a little bit worse than the last. These are just...ugh. I feel like Icefrog doesnt know what to do at this point. I hate things like removing the counterplay involved in Smoke of Deceit--these things add very little to the game and seem to under mind the emphasis of this patch, which is a return to farming and defensive landing.

Which leads me to why the fuck does IF want to go back towards a 4p1 style of gameplay? I don't get it, the last three years of patches have all been to push the game towards aggressiveness. Why backtrack on all that progress, even if I disagree with it.

[Staeg]

The patch doesn't do that at all...?

[Natirasha]

It emphasizes the laneing stage, which naturally leads to 4p1 gameplay imo.

[theaceofspades]

I just had an epic game with Venge. We lost but it was way cool, 53 minutes.

we were several out leveled and we were facing a competent SB and Lifestealer. I got the cyclone scepter, and for like 10 minutes we owned the map, got to bagingin on their anchient before they squashed us.

[BBmolla]

Which leads me to why the fuck does IF want to go back towards a 4p1 style of gameplay? I don't get it, the last three years of patches have all been to push the game towards aggressiveness. Why backtrack on all that progress, even if I disagree with it.

Maybe to try to stop Trilanes?

I mean, assumedly I'd say ideal balance would be where you can do any strategy (Push Strat, 4p1) or any lane style (2-1-2, 3-1-1, 1-2-2) and still have it be effective. I'd guess that's what he's trying to do, but I think he's completely obliterated trilanes in this patch.

Idk. Only Icefrog knows what he's trying to accomplish.

What was 6.74 meta?


^lol

[BBmolla]

Also smoke was buffed, true sight doesn't reveal it, so what are you referring to?

[Natirasha]

6.74 meta was TI2 meta. Some people didn't like the Siren v Morph v Bear meta. I loved it though. Going further back, I fucking loved the 6.72 push meta(Rhasta! Was a top tier pick) but that was just a wee bit unsustainable in the long term.

My point is that these changes do nothing but emphasize trilane gameplay. i mean, the whole pulling and exp changes were distinctly to make offlaners be a thing again. The buffs to heroes like NS or Bloodseeker who actively punish not staying together means that trilanes are likely to be emphasized even more due to the relative safety they provide to both to both the supports and the carry.

The statement regarding smoke is that its another one of those stealth-nerfs to aggressive gameplay because its easier to get punished for overextention. Not to mention it removes an element of gameplay in regards to the counterplay of warding. Change is just dumb.

Just, expect a lot more 4p1. And push strats are officially dead. I'm suspecting to see a rise in hard late game carries like AM/Void again. Maybe we'll even see sniper.

[Katsuki]

Oh yeah the smoke change is pretty bad. You used to be able to prevent game-changing smoke ganks with good warding (which SHOULD be rewarded), but now it's pretty a much a matter of who gets ganked first. The buyback nerf is huge as well and included in this.

Playing carry is going to suck so much, considering all the focus that goes into killing them in carries already. Baiting out buybacks gonna be huge now.

I agree with nati's view on more 4p1. It's either going to be 4p1, or full out gank squads. In a way, think if how DK has been playing, they get kills left and right with 2-3 heroes. That level of aggression is gonna get amplified by new patch.

[Redelphic]

Can someone explain to me why people are saying "Trilanes are dead"?

I am still in the pub phase where every teammate you have is simple-minded and gets mad at you unless you do a 2-1-2 so if someone could explain this trilane/4p1 talk I'd appreciate it.

Unrelated: I am getting sick of these silly people who go into queue obviously with someone they know, pick carries and farm together and leave 2 supports in a lane. It makes me mad because they totally ignore the setup just to be with their friend, and lately they have been dying because of it.

[Katsuki]

At higher MMRs, lanes are more commonly 1-1-3. At pro levels, sometimes they even abandon the offlane (dodging enemy tri), and sending offlaner into the jungle.

4p1 refers to how teams draft around a single carry. Best example is how LGD plays. Often times their mid and offlane heroes are both controls, relying on controlling and setting up teamfights best they can to ensure their carry smashes everyone. Doesn't necessarily have to be solely one carry, but draft is based around the 1, while the other 4 ensure and buy time or protect to ensure best outcome for the 1.

[BBmolla]

???

How are Trilanes even gonna function anymore?? The pull camp is fucked due to exp change and medium/small camp switch. Off laners got buffed, but trilanes themselves are now weaker.

[theaceofspades]

can someone explain what "stacks diminishingly" means? on evasion. what would a calculation look like for that?

I kinda think it's funny with the creep camp switch, now EVERY jungling guide is wrong with their map. That really kinda sucks.

Being a pub guy, i'm really glad huskar got nerfed a bit.

And when it says stifling dagger is dodgeable, that just means by ability right? not just moving out of the way?

[BBmolla]

when you have low evasion, a bonus to your evasion helps a lot; when you have high evasion, the same bonus to your evasion will only slightly increase your actual evasion. Does that makes sense? So the numbers don't stack as you'd think. (25% evasion + 15% evasion =/= 40% evasion) I don't know how exactly the math of it works though.

Dagger being dodgeable means if you're targeting with dagger and you blink, it'll get disjointed instead of following you to your new position.

[Natirasha]

Weird thing is, Evasion stacked multiplicatively before, so I don't actually know what Icefrog changed.

Anyways, trilanes are fine. You can still chain camps to pull. Or you just eat the xp loss-it's not a big deal. Also, Lich is a trilane god again now.

[Staeg]

If you have 25% evasion t means that there's a 100 x0.75 = 75% chance to not dodge an attack. If you then get a 35% dodge chance, the chance to get hit is 100 x0.75 x0.65 = 0.4875% chance to get hit, which is basically 52% evasion.